Quote of the day

“We should all go to Mass tonight.”

– VP Joseph Biden, after watching the raid that killed Osama bin Laden.

Read the whole thing here.

  • http://rudy-soycatolico.blogspot.com/ Rudy

    It must be a terrible thing to order someone killed, even if he was a murderous terrorist. Hopefully mass after confession. Is it a sin to order the assassination of someone even if it is official government business and that one was evil? I don’t know, but I would not like to carry that with me.

  • peregrinus

    I think Aquinas, following Aristotle, would argue that there are certain cases where assassination is morally permissible, but I’m not sure what the criteria are or whether this case would meet them.

    I am also not sure if it’s really legal… but that’s a different issue I guess.

  • yeoman

    Anyway you look at it, and no matter what a person thinks of Biden’s politics, that’s a great quote.

  • gerardnadal

    No, it was not a sin to order the death of bin Laden. The President, acting as Commander-in-Chief of a nation at war gave a lawful and moral order to take out the enemy Commander-in-Chief.

    bin Laden was a legitimate military target in a just war. Given that the enemy has not surrendered, taking bin Laden alive would have resulted in an escalation in the amount of terrorism that would have occurred during his incarceration and trial.

    In time of war, a president never has on his desk the option between nobody dying and somebody dying. His options are between a greater or lesser number of people dying, and he has a moral obligation to choose the lesser number of people dying, especially protecting the innocent and his own troops’ lives. bin Laden was the chief perpetrator and mastermind of the evil that dragged us into this war.

    Killing him brought about the justice that was inevitable, especially in light of his confessional video detailing his plot to bring down the Trade Center. Delivering that justice on the battlefield in a manner that maximized safety for he SEAL’s, and minimized the probability of terrorist attacks meant to secure his release was the right thing to do.

    As for Joe Biden fingering his rosary beads and suggesting that all go to Mass, his bishops are to blame for this man’s spiritual delusion, and the subsequent current state of his soul’s peril.

    Joe Biden has been one of the key champions of protecting Roe v. Wade during his tenure as Chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee (1987-1995), especially in his presiding over the demonization of Judge Robert Bork during his nomination hearings. It was Biden who made Roe the litmus test for every Supreme Court nominee.

    Biden has the blood of 53 million babies (and counting) on his hands. At some point a confessor needs to question Biden’s lack of firm purpose of amendment, which is indispensible for obtaining absolution. 3 1/2 decades of his obscene devotion to this slaughter is called a clue.

    The real obscenity and irony is that Biden has helped to assure the deaths of millions, where Bin Laden never made it out of the thousands. Biden is fortunate enough to have had the law on his side.

  • hms

    Gerard:

    I acknowledge your right to protest a legislator’s voting record, but I will not affirm your right to judge the state of his/her soul.

    That is God’s right, not yours.

  • gerardnadal

    hms,

    Jesus, Paul, Peter, James, all instructed us to admonish one another. If not for the sake of our souls, then for what?

    Admonishment and fraternal correction are all based upon a prudent discernment of the peril another’s soul is in.

  • hms

    Well, Gerard,

    I am probably as committed to the pro-life cause as you are, but I know with certainty that I do not share your ability to prudently discern the state of another’s soul.

  • gerardnadal

    hms,

    Fine. Then do this little thought exercise. Place yourself in Jeo Biden’s shoes and be as committed as he is, do all that he has done, and be PROUD of it. See no need to repent of it.

    Now stand outside of yourself and do an examination of conscience. Do you see a need to confess any mortal sin? If so, are you prepared to publicly renounce your monstrous and diabolical deeds? Are you willing to work within the political system to bring about change?

    If your answer to the first question is yes, then you have just discerned correctly. If the answers to the remaining questions are no, then you are lacking in complete contrition and a firm purpose of amendment. Your soul is in peril.

    If you leave the confessional as committed to abortion as when you entered, your sins are not forgiven.

    Your soul is in peril.

    There is a reason why Jesus also gave the power to bind sins, as opposed to forgiving them. Joe Biden is a textbook example of why that power needs to be exercised from time to time.

    That requires discernment.

  • deaconnorb

    gerardnadal

    I have to agree with hms here. Your comments condemning any individual for sin are totally out of line. That is not your choice to make — PERIOD.

    What is your choice to make — and you seem to be trying to do this although rather ineffectively — is to condemn what you see as abject evil in our society. That you can you and should do. Naming names is not your role.

    I have a very dim view of anyone who considers all Republicans as categorical warmongers as I have of anyone who considers all Democrats s categorical abortionists. Both caricatures are flagrantly in error. There are Republican and even Tea Party members who side in on peace issues as there are Democrats who are “pro-life.” A really wise observer notices those inconsistencies and thus is shy about making the statements that you have.

  • sjay

    Biden’s suggestion that all go to mass that night was entirely appropriate, no matter what may be the state of his soul.

  • greta

    deaconnorb,

    you say “there are Democrats who are “pro-life.”

    Quick question. If the democratic party came out totally against abortion tomorrow and committed themselves to putting judges on the bench who would overturn Roe, would abortion remain legal on at a national level? When you elect a so called “pro life democrat”, how often do they have a very high (over 90%) voting record with the pro life groups that evaluate exactly how pro life each politician of either party really is after the election? Many of them are opposed on a personal level, but vote every time with the pro abortion wing of their party, especially when needed to pass a vote. Some have some rating, but when checked, it is always when the vote does not matter in the outcome.

    However, you have to do the same thing with both parties if you are serious about ending abortion. The republicans have a vew RINO’s in their herd. However, it is the Democratic Party which keeps the abortion mills humming and anyone who has voted as many times to keep abortion alive as Joe Biden over the years is clearly not in tune with his religion. As to the state of his soul, I agree that we can never judge or be certain and we leave the decision on heaven and hell to God. What we can judge is that voting for the likes of Biden assures the voter that he will whenever possible come down on the side of the baby dying and that means we are as guilty of taking that life as Biden. Doing anything to reward the democratic party for their generational protection of the abortion mills certainly places you at odds with the teaching of the Catholic faith on a very non negotiable issue. Once we have life protected as best we can, then we can look to the issues of liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Some think they can somehow make life better for dead babies with big government programs that have destroyed poor families for generations. I have yet to see how a big government program of any kinds helps the child murdered in abortion.

  • gerardnadal

    Deacon Norb,

    Please don’t put words in my mouth and then beat me up for them.

    I never categorized all Democrats, all Republicans, or any such thing. I spoke specifically to the issue of Joe Biden and his abhorrent promotion of abortion, performed with great pride. If a Deacon cannot look upon 3 1/2 decades of unrepentant promotion of abortion by this man, his proud protection of all things and all people involved in advancing the murder of babies, and not see a soul in peril, then I simply am at a loss for words.

    Paul was told of a mother and son in Corinth who were engaging in incestuous relations and he excommunicated them, having pronounced sentence on them for the Day of the Lord. Only when they repented of their evil did he admit them back into the Church.

    We have much, much worse here. And there is no hearsay involved. We have all watched Biden’s lusty promotion of abortion. And you seriously cannot see that the man’s soul is in peril? Why then did Jesus give us the mechanism of fraternal correction? It doesn’t take a rocket scientist, canon lawyer, or bishop to figure this one out.

    If Jeoe Biden were your son or brother, would you be adopting the same posture?

  • sjay

    “it is the Democratic Party which keeps the abortion mills humming”

    Let’s not kid ourselves. It’s a human evil that predates all American political parties that keeps abortion mills “humming.”

    “voting for the likes of Biden assures the voter that he will whenever possible come down on the side of the baby dying and that means we are as guilty of taking that life as Biden. ”

    Same comment. Whatever responsibility Biden has for the legality of abortion, as far as I know he never forced anyone into a clinic — much less any one who votes for a presidential ticket with him on it.

  • greta

    sjay,

    “Let’s not kid ourselves. It’s a human evil that predates all American political parties that keeps abortion mills “humming.”

    Yes, it is those who make the choice to enter the abortion mill or the men who are often at fault by not caring enough for the woman at fault on a personal basis, but when a country makes an evil legal and accepted, it encourages that type of behavior. When those in power in a country make an evil legal, and when the people vote for those people, they cannot say they did nothing wrong. When leaders made slavery legal, were they not to blame, only the slave holder who was doing what was legal? Where those who gave them power not at fault? When the same people who legalize abortion also legalize gay marriage either directly or through the judges they put in power, they have to accept their part in creating that evil. We get the government we deserve, especially in a democracy. We cannot claim to be one nation under God and at the same time continue to vote into office this type of evil. I am in no way saying that one person or one party represents all evil, but when we set aside various degrees of sin, the holocaust of abortion, which since being made legal, has killed over 54 million babies, has to be at the top. When one considers the greatest evils of the Nazi’s, one does not look to see how they did if helping the poor, but in the death camps or in starting WWII over their desire for wealth and power. When we judge the Japanese of that era, we remember the prison camps, the rape of Nanking, and their starting war again for power and wealth. Those decisions were made by the people granting power to the wrong people and accepting that leadership. The democrats since their founding have been wrong on every major moral issue from slavery to lynching to abortion and gay marriage. One might add big government programs as well to the list for socialism has created a mess wherever it has been tried. I guess stealing from one to give to another upon which socialism is based does not work because it starts with a sin in violation of the ten commmandments. This also is a product of the democratic party starting with Wilson, FDR, LBJ, and now Obama.

    “Whatever responsibility Biden has for the legality of abortion, as far as I know he never forced anyone into a clinic — much less any one who votes for a presidential ticket with him on it.”

    Same comment by me. Voting is a sacred obligation which those in a democracy have to take very seriously. Continuing to vote for a party that has so closely associated itself with evil for generations has to have consequences and a price to pay. 54 million babies have paid that price and the destruction of the family unit in our country are a direct result of supporting the evil the Democrats have given to this country since its founding. The Republican Party was created to end slavery and has been against abortion since it was made legal and for the family and against gay marriage and big government. It is not perfect, but it has usually been on the right side of major moral issues. Voting is important to get right and voting for evil and trying to say later you have no role in the evil simply does not pass the smell test.

  • gerardnadal

    “Whatever responsibility Biden has for the legality of abortion, as far as I know he never forced anyone into a clinic — much less any one who votes for a presidential ticket with him on it.”

    The same may be said of slavery. It was kept legal, but I don’t know of anyone who was ever forced to become a slave owner.

    I don’t know anyone who was ever forced to become a slave auctioneer.

    I don’t know of anyone who was forced to become a slave ship captain.

    I don’t know of anyone who was ever forced to become a slave captor.

    It’s odd how people make laws that establish the legality of crimes against humanity and then have apologists who will attempt to absolve them of complicity.

    Regarding Deacon Norb’s comments, a follow-up thought:

    If it’s not my place to call out one of the chief architects of abortion who sits in our pews, whose is it?

    Certainly Deacon Norb doesn’t think it’s my place a a Catholic scientists and leader in the pro-life movement.

    Certainly Deacon Norb passes, so I guess that leaves the priests and bishops.

    Silence there too.

    Most respectfully, Deacon Norb, Jesus gave us all the mechanism of fraternal correction. The elders of the community don’t figure into the picture until the last step, as a last resort. We are all our brother’s keeper, as Jesus taught. I’m generally an admirer of your commentary here, but on this subject, I believe that you are horribly wrong.

    Biden is a chief architect of abortion in this nation, and a proudly unrepentant one at that. Jesus tells us that by their fruits shall we know them, and there don’t even appear to be the buds of flowers, let alone the fruits of repentance on Biden’s poisonous tree.

    His soul is in grave peril, and that a solitary layman here is arguing such, with no similar voice from the clergy suggests a frightful state of affairs in our Church.


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