Saturday AM Session Open Thread: The Philosophies of Men mingled with Conference

I personally think that the best way to watch General Conference is with good friends, good food, and good commentary.  Since we are low on good food and I do not have any friends (conference-watching, at least) in the area, I thought that maybe I could go for some good commentary at FPR with some of my ‘nacle friends.

I realize that other blogs are going to be doing this on a bigger and better scale. However, I am not trying to compete with anyone. This is about enjoying conference at home…at Faith-Promoting Rumor.

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  • Chris, I’ve always wanted to watch GC with you.

  • Hey, you better. See you in an hour and 20 minutes.

  • My predictions: they will pretty much say the same thing they said last GC, and the GC before that, and the GC before that, and the GC before that, and the GC before that, and the GC before that…

    This will not be because the members haven’t been following adequately following their directives, but because of a lack of imagination (with perhaps the exception of Holland, who I don’t always agree with but at least appreciate for usually trying do give something new).

  • Well narrator, I am hoping you are wrong. What fun would that be?

  • and thanks for hanging out.

  • Holland up front, nice.

  • I am not a big fan of the cultural celebrations. They seem a bit weird. However, temple dedications at a fun time.

  • Lisbon, Indianapolis, Philippines, Hartford, Tijuana.

    Cool.

    Thoughts?

  • the internet feed plays has audio for the choir, but not for the speakers. am i the only one with this problem?

  • I am watching on cable. I looks like it is a common problem with others at BCC.

  • No, you’re not the only one, wonder how long it’ll take somebody to figure it out/fix it.

  • The audio-only is working.

  • I just did some Jedi gestures. Did that help?

  • the wmp feed works, but it’s not very clear. i’ll just do audio till they figure it out.

    i’m not sure how a true church can’t get this right.

  • Maybe I am more righteous and than is why I have cable with BYU-TV.

  • Oooh, Elder Holland.

  • audio is working. my testimony is back.

  • I like that he thanked the membership for sustaining the brethen and the officers of the church.

  • I am glad. narrator and his need for signs.

  • “This is about you.”

  • Countering the cynical message which claims that it is about those at the top. YW leaders at camps is a great example.

  • The praise of women for fulfilling the gender roles of making quilts and casseroles.

  • The sisters that prepared the luncheon after my granpa’s funeral over a decade ago still stand out to me as Christ-like service at a time of morning.

  • Don’t screw with funeral potatoes.

  • Where do people even get those little suitcases?

    I like the reference to those who long care for disabled children.

  • I love the helpers, too. I wish that I was a better one.

  • I should be fair. He is praising members for Christian living, which I would far rather hear than praising members for dutifully attending church meetings and temple rites.

  • I remember Pres. Faust choking up during that story. I fell in love with James E. Faust at that moment.

  • #27: I appreciate that as well.

  • I think we can all have more appreciation for the sacrifices our parents make for us. I do now more than when I was younger.

  • I feel like I need to call my parents after the session and give them some overdue thanks.

  • Extending praise outside of Mormonism. I love Holland.

  • Just wait till you speak in Conference. 🙂

  • Went to listen and it said my Flip2Mac was out of date. So I’m updating…

  • Elder Holland, I thank you.

  • How does Bushman deal with this story in RSR? I need to read it soon.

  • I don’t recall exactly how Bushman handles it, but I think it probably has something to do with the over all theme (shared by Vogel’s bio) of Joseph’s relationship with his father.

  • I really don’t have anything to say about this talk. Perhaps it’s cuz I don’t have kids. Or perhaps because it’s boring. Losing my testimony again.

  • It might be your testimony. 🙂

  • What is the point of the JS didnt drink story when he was child? Is it to discourage child hood drinking?

    Im pretty sure he drank later on in life, no?

  • The Primary talk seems to be a little more solid than is sometimes the case, but since it’s so far outside my present life (it’s been months since I’ve even *seen* a child larger than an infant) it’s hard to get into.

    Leaves me more time to think about Elder Holland’s wonderful talk.

  • Jenni

    I thought it was weird that when her baby holds her finger she can tell that it is telling her that if she just held on that they would help her return to the lord. She must be a baby whisperer.

  • Ive always liked Elder Costa, as an aside. I heard lots of folklore and legends about him in Brasil

  • If Lucy’s account is true, I think it had more to do with Joe Sr’s alcoholism than a childhood testimony of the WofW. And yes, Joseph loved the drink when he was older.

  • I actually think it is more about trusting in God. All he needed was his father. That type of thing. My second son once had to have blood taken. They normally restrain them. I told them that he would be calm if I held him. He was. It helped me have a more personal connection with that story.

  • Jenni

    I commented with my mom who is watching with me at my house. That I didn’t know why the kept telling that time when Joseph Smith refused the drink because I’ve heard many a drunk-Joseph story from President Jack Christensen.

  • Jenni

    So he’s basically reading an old conference talk.

  • Chris H,

    I think thats a good message to take out of it. Ive just generally heard it used as anti-alcohol story; Even under severe pain Joseph wouldnt drink.

  • Jenni

    oh, I missed the second thing. What was that?

  • My little brother once had to have his tongue sewed (he fell while climbing a chain link fence and hung himself by his tongue) and they couldn’t give anesthetic for some reason. He held perfectly still with his tongue stuck out as long as our dad would hold him. I know it was harder on Dad than on Bro.

    IOW, I think Chris’s #45 is spot on.

  • J, I just do not think that it why the story was originally shared. Of course, we seem to make everything about the WofW sometimes. That is why we needed Elder Holland’s talk.

  • Jenni

    I love that they have protected themselves this way–The lord will never let the leader of this church lead you astray.

  • One of my best friend likes to connect the idea that God will remove prophets who do not agree with God’s will. He said that is why President Joseph Fielding Smith and H B Lee lived so short in office.

  • 30 years later, still not a fan of Benson’s 14 fundamentals talk.

  • I just want to say that academic theology-types are not that bad. Was that an FPR reference?

  • #51 chris

    agreed

  • the primary duty of the scriptural prophets is almost always to bring attention to the poor and oppressed. i doubt this will be one of the fundamentals.

  • Jenni

    loyd, you know that I caught that reinforcement of womanly roles in the church. This guy may be the first not to do it–only because he is talking about something that women have no part in.

  • whatever happened to “a prophet is only a prophet when acting as such”?

  • do you know me Jenni? Or rather, do I know you?

  • narrator, biblical prophets were cool like that. I think they also did much to point to unrighteousness in general. However, the mistreatment of the poor and oppressed was the glearing sign of evil.

  • Time to grab a soda.

  • Jenni

    I like that “president” Benson liked to reiterate that the current prophet is more important than the past ones.

  • Jenni

    you know me–Jenni Campell–friend from philosphy and wife of friend John Christensen.

  • Jenni

    class?

  • Ah-Q

    I’m not currently listening in. Did Costa go through the 14 fundamentals, point-by-point?

  • I was wondering if that was you.

  • Ah-Q, yes.

  • I tend to learn in Sunday School by negation.

  • My favorite teacher with Luke Garrott. Political Science. University of Utah. He loved the subject and showed interest in his students.

  • Jenni

    oh, rowdy boys, being able to be taught–miracles do happen.

  • You seem to do everything in negatives, Loyd.

  • Elder Seventy, quoting Holland, quoting Packer….

  • narrator

    I like Wendell Berry’s comment on prophets

    “If change is to come… it will have to come from the outside. It will have to come from the margins… this sort of change is a dominant theme of our tradition, whose “central figures” have often worked their way inward from the margins. It was the desert, not the temple, that gave us the prophets.”

  • Ardis, why still hate me? Can’t we be (facebook) friends again?

  • Mark N.

    Did I hear that right? He’s telling a story about the time another GA heard another GA tell a story?

  • Emerged ourselves in the scriptures! We too often ignore them in Sunday School. We totally ignored Amos, but instead talked about modern day prophets. Give me scripture!

  • Ah-Q

    Yeesh, that’s an unfortunate talk to resurrect.

  • Try going the rest of this first session with a little good cheer and a lot less cynicism, Loyd. Betcha can’t do it.

  • Go the Scriptures! I like it because we need to seach and ponder rather than always waiting for a letter from the First Presidency. We have the tools.

  • GC speakers don’t seem to like the economy of heaven. Otherwise they wouldn’t be repeating themselves over and over again.

  • Yes, Chris, scripture! I alternate with a man who never uses scripture, at all. He says it is more important to talk about doctrine than scripture. Really. My best classes are always ones where we go through the scriptures themselves, even if it’s only a few verses and tends toward the superficial. (I’m not sure where he thinks we get doctrine from.)

  • Ardis, I concur. I think if our GD classes kept to the scriptures, we would get far more out of them. It’s just too bad that the GP manuals usually don’t stay too close to the scriptures.

  • Jenni

    what ever happened to the worlds fair?

  • Ah-Q

    Jenni–

    A World Expo is currently being held in Shanghai. I think it’s basically the same thing as the World’s Fair.

  • Jenni

    NICE

  • Law of Consecration: Application of celestial law to the “here and now.”

  • Jenni

    shout out for law of consecration in an earthly life

  • Ah-Q

    I wish we could just look stuff up in the Handbook, too.

  • I have been reading a lot about Lowell Bennion lately. Wow, what a consecrated life.

  • Ah-Q,

    It only requires basic google skills.

  • Jenni

    Life of labor AND rest

  • Ah-Q

    Chris–Good point. I wish we could look stuff up in the Handbook by going to LDS.org rather than, say, Wikileaks

  • It is not very intereresting.

  • i wonder if a consecrated life will be described as including economic consecration.

  • Isnt the “economy of heaven” capitalism? or so I heard

  • A kind word for leisure. I am good at that. I like how Elder Christofferson’s talk goes well with Elder Holland’s talk.

  • Jenni

    whoa, assume much

  • assume what?

  • Jenni

    evolutionary theory = disregard for the body

  • My father just texted me

    President Kimball was bothered by Pres. Benson’s “Fourteen Fundamentals in Following the Prophet” talk given at BYU in that espoused an “unthinking follow the leader” mentality. Pres. Kimball required that he apologize for parts of that talk to the Q12 and then seeing it was not a sufficient apology he was a week later required to apologize to the rest of the General Authorities. Camilla described her husband’s “displeasure with the speech.”

  • Jenni

    And feet were real gross back then

  • atheists have no ethics of the body?

  • Ok. I think that an evolutionary approach to life and humanity is the problem. Social Darwinism and not biology is the problem which he is really addressing.

  • the temples i go to are filled with paintings and chandeliers…. if my temple is a body should i also decorate it and hang objects from it?

  • Pretty good talk overall though, consecration is always a good topic

  • narrator: your temple needs a haircut.

  • I am writing my dissertation on Ezra T. Benson. It is helping me appreciate Spencer W. Kimball.

  • Jenni

    What about just being accountable to each other?

  • Chris,

    really? I didnt take you for a masochist. I guess he is the most relevant figure if you want to understand the modern western mormon political mind

  • J,

    I think it is also helping me appreciate his human side.

  • Jenni

    Hey, if the SLC temple gets a “face-lift” I guess that’s our answer to the “plastic surgery” argument.

  • The vilification of non-theists bothers me.

  • as opposed to his reptilian V side? I kid. seriously I kid. His talk on pride, I mean his daughters, was one of my fav talks as well as his I testify. Although Im not sure we would agree on who the secret combinations are.

  • Jenni

    no tattoos, but re-constructive surgery is just fine.

  • Oh, fer cryin’ out loud, Loyd! He isn’t vilifying non-theists; he’s acknowledging that because we know our real origins and real destinies, we understand more than those who don’t have that knowledge.

    You need to watch conference with a seven-year-old believer at your side to explain the hard parts.

  • “no tattoos, but re-constructive surgery is just fine.”

    Well, in principle they are the same problem. We should not need the leaders to spell out every detail.

  • Jenni

    Narrator,

    I think that when your whole life is lived as a tribute to god as being the cause and the reason, then you can’t understand that someone without god could have anything worth meaning in their life.

  • President U!

  • Jenni

    Narrator,

    how much are we able to pay on our body’s remodel?

  • Nature and scientists! He has been reading Steve Peck.

  • Ardis, this isn’t the first time that Christopherson has claimed that atheists can’t have morals.

  • And you’re grossly overstating the case, Jenni. I think that when your whole life is lived in cynicism and unbelief, you can’t understand that someone WITH God has something more than someone without God.

  • Jenni

    My mom says he’s be best looking apostle since David O Makay

  • Sorry, Chris. I tried. This isn’t the kind of company I want to watch conference with. Bye.

  • Jenni

    McKay

  • or maybe I should leave…

  • Ardis: Love ya.

  • Elder U. is soooo freaking handsome.

  • I lean heavily towards the secular. Atheists bug me as much as fundamentalists. Back to man crushing on Pres. U.

  • atheists often are fundamentalists. Im wary of dogmatic certainty wherever it comes from

  • Jenni

    I agree that the better should be prioritized above the good, I don’t know that it should always be with that single purpose in mind.

  • yeah Elder U is by far my favorite speaker for a number of conferences now.

  • My father-in-law was called as an early morning seminary teacher, but was not released from his calling as Stake clerk. He works 60 hours a week as an electrician for AT&T and is on call most other hours of the day. My wife is worried that his schedule is going to kill him. Mother-in-law is angry that Stake pres hasn’t released him from stake calling. FiL dutifully does it all.

  • Jenni

    I like the fundamentalist message of this talk

  • Nice recovery on his part.

  • I love Elder U.

  • I like fundamentalism is the sense of appreciating simple and beautiful principles.

  • …and that is not just because he has a great tan, beautiful hair, a ripped body, and the sexiest jaw-line that God could have created.

  • fundamentals are tied to relationships. nice.

  • He seems to regularly make ethics of care-type arguments. I like this.

  • alrighty im convinced gonna go spend some love/time outside with the family

  • “Some people cannot get along with themselves.” My wife has been telling me to stop putting myself down in public. She is wise….and she loves me a lot.

  • Jenni

    Excellent talk U.

  • So, should we do this again?

  • time for Half-Life. See you again in two hours, right?

  • We will take another shot, I guess. Thanks all. I hope that Ardis will come back

  • Jared T.

    Oh, it’s GC today, huh? I guess being out in the mission field really does screw with your spirituality…

  • There is another session at 2pm.

  • Just stumbled upon your website while doing a Google search. Great info BTW.. Your blog is so informative keep up the good work!!!! tremendous pleasing pleasing.