See You in Omaha

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About Frank Schaeffer

Frank Schaeffer is an American author, film director, screenwriter and public speaker. He is the son of the late theologian and author Francis Schaeffer. He became a Hollywood film director and author, writing several internationally acclaimed novels including And God Said, "Billy!" as well as the Calvin Becker Trilogy depicting life in a fundamentalist mission home-- Portofino, Zermatt, and Saving Grandma.

  • http://patheos Mark Edward Hessinger

    Way to go, Frank! This looks interesting. And if it goes well, how about you consider presenting a conversation with some people who won’t necessarily agree with you on a lot of things but maybe on the essential things . . . or maybe not even those.

    I’d personally like to see a conversation with you and Layton Howerton, and I’d really like to see you speak with Eric Metaxas.

    And if you keep using the ideas I send you in these comments, you really should start paying me some royalties or a finder’s fee or something . . . at least buy me that beer you promised!

    • http://ourgirlsclub.blogspot.com/ Ginny Bain Allen

      Exemplary, Christ-like Eric Metaxas would rip Frank’s bizarre, twisted thinking to shreds!

  • Goldstein Squad Member

    I think I get it now, Frank. You and your pal aren’t certain of anything but you want us to listen to you about how things should be.

    In the meantime, the Anti Theists over here at Patheos…JT Eberhard, Mehta and that gang, ARE certain about what they call reality, and are determined to see Christianity eliminated.

    And then, with religion gone, no one will have anything to fight over and everything we be fine.

    Isn’t that about it?

  • http://ourgirlsclub.blogspot.com/ Ginny Bain Allen

    Frank, you remind me of Billy Graham’s so-called friend Templeton. The tactics Templeton employed in his attempt to get Billy to reject the Truth which is Jesus are eerily similar to the tactics you use in your attempt to get those, who have surrendered their allegiance to Jesus, to join you in your narcissism, ruled by convoluted thinking due to moral rebellion. People, such as yourself, are not afforded Jesus’ right thinking and guiding wisdom, due to their rejection of Him. Sadly, you remind me of Bart Ehrman. He abuses his position as professor of religious studies at UNC Chapel Hill, in an attempt to get young, naive, impressionable college students who are attempting to live as Jesus’ disciples, to turn their backs and walk away from their first love. You and Bart should be shaking in your shoes!

    • http://Patheos Mark Edward Hessinger

      Ginny,

      It’s nice to make your acquaintance, I’m sure. But I think that you are being too hard on Frank or this Professor Ehrman you mention or even the late Charles Templeton. Templeton apparently died an atheist and, if so, he made his own grave and must lie in it. Of course, no one but God actually knows what final thoughts Templeton entertained, and if the Bible’s so-called “Thief on the Cross” could in the brief amount of time it took him to breath nearly his last breaths be assured of his place in Paradise by Jesus Christ, Himself, then we who also ultimately reach that Place may be surprised to find Templeton and others like him there and also chagrined to find who is not there that we expected would be.

      As for impressionable college students you fear that Professor Ehrman and Frank Schaeffer may lead astray, well they couldn’t have begun with actual saving faith to begin with, could they, if they could lose it so easily. Rather what they must have had was a veneer that comforted their parents and maybe even themselves, but nothing obviously that would persevere, which is the definition of true saving faith, is it not? Then Professor Ehrman and Frank Schaeffer actually do them a great service if they help strip away the veneer so that the real soul of the individual can be seen for what it truly is and so begin, by God’s Grace, the great wrestling match with the Almighty that must take place if a soul is ever to be saved.

      I was once a college drop out uninfluenced by anything or anyone except alcohol, drugs, immorality, and hedonistic heresies and/or heretics. But when in my degradation I realized my own misery, I asked the most narcissistic, un-Biblical version of god whom New Age teachings had led me to believe was really me to lead me to do his will and to show me the truth, and the “God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob” answered my cries by sovereignly ordaining conversations I came to have with men and women who told me about the Jesus Christ presented in the Bible, and this Almighty God also gave me the faith to accept His Truth and to follow Him in the Person of Jesus Christ. So can any person really lead another person astray? Doesn’t everyone who ends up in Hell choose on his or her own to go there? However, the converse is that another person CAN lead a lost soul to salvation by offering the self-sacrificing love of Jesus Christ and speaking the Truth of His Gospel in that love.

      Anyway, that’s what I get out of reading my Bible and from living nearly a lifetime now with Him. Ginny, I ask you just to pray for Frank and Professor Ehrman, and to speak Love to them whenever you can, and to live your life self-sacrificially. Then watch in amazement as God our Father takes care of the rest.

      Peace, Friend.

      Love, Mark

      • http://ourgirlsclub.blogspot.com/ Ginny Bain Allen

        “Doubt will lead to one of two inevitable consequences. Faithful doubt leads to a deeper embrace of the truth, with doubt serving to point us into a deeper knowledge, trust, and understanding of the truth. Pernicious doubt leads to unfaithfulness, unbelief, skepticism, cynicism, and despair. Christians who are struggling with doubt, need to seek help from the faithful, not the faithless.” ~Dr. Albert Mohler

        The British nineteenth-century poet Lord Tennyson made this point about doubt rather nicely in his poem The Ancient Sage:
        For nothing worthy proving can be proven,
        Nor yet disproven; wherefore thou be wise,
        Cleave ever to the sunnier side of doubt.

        http://ourgirlsclub.blogspot.com/2012/10/doubt-and-vain-search-for-certainty.html

      • http://ourgirlsclub.blogspot.com/ Ginny Bain Allen

        OUR CONSCIENCE VERSUS OUR SIN NATURE
        Although we are born in original sin, we are also born knowing God. Each of us, created “in His image” and for His purpose, has an inner programming, put there by God, to seek His influence in our lives. This programming, as deeply ingrained in us as though it were embedded in our DNA, impels us to discover and submit to His inner leading in all things, or else live meaningless, deluded, and ultimately wasted lives. Conscience is literally the presence of God in us, the friction between the way we are and the way we could be. Our conscience causes us inner conflict when we’re doing the wrong thing. We experience this correcting and illuminating presence – which is actually our greatest friend – as pain when we deviate from its urgings.

        If we tumble into the grip of dark forces we don’t understand and then start to defend our obsessions and compulsions, we inevitably come to regard our conscience as an enemy. And although we may be somewhat successful in drowning out that inner warning bell, what happens when this conscience factor appearing in another person gets too close to us for comfort? We feel threatened. Therefore, we feel compelled to silence the “voice of conscience”- not just the one inside of us, but the one in other people, which tends to revive our own conscience with which we’re at war. This means we can’t tolerate dissent. Thus, many of us ignorantly come to regard conscience as a problem, even an enemy, and strive to eliminate it any way we can. The most loving stance for others to take is not to serve as enablers of self-destructive and immoral compulsions, but to stand in patient but firm opposition. In other words, we need to side with the afflicted person’s conscience. Until we’re ready to let the life of pride and sin inside us wither and die, we find it nearly impossible to “listen to the right side.”

        An innocent young child has a “bright light” quality that feels mysteriously threatening to those in the grip of corruption. To the person led by her sin nature, it’s deeply satisfying to her to lead an innocent one astray. Doing so serves to anesthetize her own conscience and assuage her inner conflict by destroying the innocence of another person, since that innocence tends to make her aware of her own corruption.

        Remember, our conflicts contain the seeds of redemption – that is, as long as we know we have a problem, there’s hope for a change. But if we deny there’s a problem, we are robbed of the chance to find healing. A generation ago, we understood there is such a thing as sin, and that sin is a serious matter and to be avoided. Now there is no societal consciousness of sin – only limitless “freedom,” and “choice.” Beguiled by our scientific and technological advances into believing we are enlightened, in reality as we move further and further away from our Judeo-Christian spiritual roots, we actually understand less and less about ourselves. We defend our own corruption at great peril.

        All due to a blindness that dominates our age – a blindness that obscures that which every child knows naturally: we all have a “good side” (conscience) as well as a “bad side” (sin nature). If we pay heed to the wrong side, terrible consequences follow. In our nation that has strayed far from God, many have forgotten the simple, intuitive understanding of right and wrong that we grasped effortlessly when we were innocent children, but which we were later intimidated or seduced into doubting and abandoning. We mock and deny the “old truths” that, unbeknownst to us, still form the very substance of everything valuable we possess today. In our culture, the prevailing mind-set is, increasingly, to mock and demonize those who rebuke our growing infatuation with our lower nature. We’ve forgotten that we’re here to serve a much higher purpose than just fulfilling our own desires.

        excerpts from David Kupelian’s EXCELLENT book entitled HOW EVIL WORKS

        • http://Patheos Mark Edward Hessinger

          Thank you, Ginny. These excerpts from David Kupelian’s book are indeed “excellent.” I’m going to have to read the whole thing now. And indeed, any one should tremble who leads a child astray, as Jesus, Himself, did warn. However, my thesis regarding grown adults, as college students in fact are (whether or not they look or act like it) I think still holds water. Also, after spending some time now experimenting with different ways of “evangelizing” in blogs and/or the comments sections of blogs, I’ve found that harsh words and/or tones, while emotionally satisfying for the moment, tend to be counterproductive and only engender more of the same. But a soft word, graciously spoken, may yet by God’s Grace, find its mark, namely a human heart. Believe me, Frank is very used to Evangelicals coming at him with guns a blazin’ and I’ve done that too much, myself, but Frank is not impervious to Love and nor is anyone else. -mh

          • http://Patheos Mark Edward Hessinger

            Oh and sorry, Frank, for talking about you in the third person just now as if you weren’t even there. Please join the conversation, if you care to do so. -mh

          • http://ourgirlsclub.blogspot.com/ Ginny Bain Allen

            No, college students are definitely NOT adults. Professor Laurence Steinberg of Temple University, along with others in the field of psychology, have done research that explains why juveniles lack control and understanding of long-term consequences and are more susceptible to peer pressure. “The teenage brain is like a car with a good accelerator but a weak brake,” Steinberg wrote. “With powerful impulses under poor control, the likely result is a crash.” One’s frontal lobe is not finished developing until age 25. Until then, one’s decision making skills are quite lacking. Are you not aware of the statistics proving most high school seniors who profess belief in Jesus, go on to reject Him while learning under the progressive, anti-Christ propaganda in our institutions of lower learning? Their roots are not deep and strong in Jesus, and they are in great need of having those older and wiser in the faith to teach them the Truth which is Jesus. They certainly do NOT need those who once walked with Jesus and have since turned their backs on Him to fill their heads with their prideful, condescending heresy and hate! Have you forgotten what is written in 2 Peter? Once saved, always saved is poppycock! The Bible refutes such a position in many places.

  • http://ourgirlsclub.blogspot.com/ Ginny Bain Allen

    Bart Ehrman is despicable because he exploits his students, knowing full well how vulnerable and weak they are. Just like Frank has made it his mission to turn unsuspecting folks from the narrow way, Bart also delights in filling his students’ naive heads with his hateful lies about God and His Word. He wants them to be as miserable as he is, just like Frank. Their very countenances are devoid of joy!

    http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/behrman/bart-ehrman-story

    • http://Patheos Mark Edward Hessinger

      Ginny,

      I don’t know who Bart Ehrman is other than what you’ve said here, and I haven’t taken the time to view whatever is on the link you’ve attached. Sometimes Frank’s countenance is “devoid of joy” and undoubtedly that’s also true of Professor Ehrman, because it’s true of everyone at one time or another, even me and you. The tone in your comment about that also sounds “devoid of joy.” How this all must grieve our Father, the very creator and author of JOY! But I’ve seen photos of Frank wherein he looks pretty joyful, some from not so long ago. But right now, let’s please remember that he’s mourning the recent loss of his mother.

      By the way, I’m very familiar with the so-called Adolescent Brain Science from my career as a prosecuting attorney, including what I perceive to be its misuse in law and the social sciences and, probably coming soon, theology too. But just because it’s a physiological fact that the human brain doesn’t fully develop until about the age of twenty-five, doesn’t mean that college students and other men and women who are younger than that age are not “adults.” The culture of Jesus considers boys at thirteen years of age to be considered men. And theologians studying the Bible, Itself, discern an “age of accountability” before God to be even much younger than that. I don’t know who is correct in their theological view of the question about whether or not a person can “lose their salvation,” John Calvin or Jacob Arminius, and we’re not going to settle that issue here. I do know both from the Bible and from personal experience that God is love, and that He has provided every means possible for an individual soul to reach Him, and that, if someone ultimately doesn’t, it’s not God’s fault.

      Frank had Francis and Edith Schaeffer as parents and primary role models, and yet he turned out the way he did, which isn’t all bad in my estimation. We’ll all have to wait to see what God thinks, not just about Him but also about each one of us. (Sorry, Frank, that we’re talking about you again in the third person.) Franklin Graham had Billy and Ruth Graham, and he still ran a little wild for a while. About all that you and I can do, Ginny, is try and look so much like Jesus that our children and their friends and the community around us see Him and His Love. Then the rest is between each soul and his or her Maker.

      But this is a good and necessary conversation we’re having here, Ginny. Thank you for it.

      Love, Mark

  • Mark Edward Hessinger

    Hey Pal, There was a fairly lively conversation going on here in the comments section between me and a new, fundamentalist friend. I was pretty much backing you and what you’re doing while at the same time making some evangelistic points of my own. Why’d you delete the thread when you switched over to this new Disqus comments program . . . or is the answer in the question? :) -mh


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