When People Act like Michele Bachmann on the Internet…

…the correct response to claims like this is “Documentation please?” If they do not pony up the documentation, the sensible thing for a blogger to do is conclude that he is dealing with a troll and boot him or her. If Bachmann does not come up with the documentation for her claims (and I think it extremely unlikely she will), she also should be booted from office. Put up or shut up, Michele. If you can’t put up, then you have borne false witness against your neighbor.

  • Kirt Higdon

    I think this is sort of like the Kevin Bacon game. I’m sure I have fewer than 6 degrees of separation from someone who has connections with the Moslem Brotherhood. Michelle Bachmann actually serves in Congress with such a person, according to her claim. Someone needs to investigate her.

  • Andy

    Bachmann is so similar to many of the children I have worked with – if I can’t get attention one way I’ll get it another. Her accusations are at best ugly and at worst evil. I don’t know if those she is accusing are guilty of much else other than being Muslim. I did read the report she is using and it includes Grover Norquist as a supporter of the Muslim Brotherhood – lets investigate him as well? LOL
    In our overly interconnected world I agree with Mr. Higdon _ i am pretty sure somehow I have a connection to someone who is a supporter of the Muslim Brotherhood, especially since I am an evil college professor. However, I am not sure she needs investigation as much as she needs help of another sort.

  • Tammy

    The last time I checked, people were allowed to be Muslim…just like were allowed to be Catholic and others are allowed to be atheist (or whatever). It is part of what makes choosing to be Catholic special…that we had the free will NOT to.

    Based on some of the lunatic fringe I’ve met/read, I would be terrified if you tried to make me personally accountable for everything every nutty Catholic said.

    Im probably less than 6 degrees of separation from the Moslem Brotherhood …and I am a boring wife/mom/nurse in suburban America. Stop the witch hunt.

  • ds

    I personally am 2 degrees of separation to the Sheik of Oman. So I’m pretty much a terrorist.

  • Mark S (not for Shea)

    I can’t decide if Bachmann is a genuine loon or has absolutely no personal integrity whatsoever. Either way, I can’t imagine why anyone would vote for her.

    • ds

      Why decide? She’s a genuine loon with no personal integrity.

      • ds

        And I’d add: “Whatta maroon.”

  • victor

    ” Put up or shut up, Michele. If you can’t put up, then you have borne false witness against your neighbor.”

    So would this be the (wait for it!) Borne Ultimatum?

    • Mark Shea

      And that’s when I shot him, your honor.

  • Confederate Papist

    The document was 12 pages WITH references, according to an interview I heard on the radio.

    • Mark Shea

      Then it should not be hard for her to document, for the media, exactly what the charges are and why. Unless, of course, it’s 12 page of unsubstantiated political wind from an unstable demagogue. I repeat: documentation please?

      • Confederate Papist

        Intellectual honesty should also cause one to acknowledge that there are details that they *cannot* divulge.

        Then you will say, “then why even mention it?”

        To which I would say, “good question.”

        • Mark Shea

          Exactly right. It smells like BS to me. Documentation please.

          • Confederate Papist

            Mind you I am not defending (you know how much I love the government-not) her, just trying to be objective…for a change.

            I know, totally unlike me…Mr. Kneejerk…

            ;-)

        • Ted Seeber

          One of the most spurious claims that law enforcement and the military ever came up with is “information we cannot divulge”. It usually comes down to one of three categories when it finally is divulged:
          1. “Compromise the investigation” which really means “telling the public enough to let a lynch mob do our job for us, thus endangering our paychecks”.
          2. “Compromise the investigator” which really means “trying to get a perpetrator to confess to crimes he didn’t do”
          3. “put our troops in danger” which really means “we’re going to invade in such a way that we want to shoot people in the back instead of have them face us where they might shoot back”

          I find all three categories to be horribly sinful and self-serving. And in at least two relatively recent cases in Oregon, I am relatively certain that victims were harmed by keeping information secret.

    • Mark Shea

      Great. Then lay them out for us to see. Explain it to us. Anybody can say, like McCarthy, “I hold in my hand a list of names…” Big deal. Where’s the beef. Documentation please?

  • Ted Seeber

    I find the Nation of Islam and the Muslim Brotherhood to be about as Islamic as Westboro Baptist is Christian.

    These are black American Christian/Islamic Groups that have almost NO theological ties to the rest of Islam, I don’t understand why people are so frightened of them- unless, of course, it is just the racism that these groups were formed to fight.

  • Will

    Ted, the Muslim Brotherhood is Egyptian, not American, and has nothing to do with American “Black Muslims” (or Christians). Your comment makes no sense.

    • ivan_the_mad

      “Ted, the Muslim Brotherhood is Egyptian”

      Incorrect. The Muslim Brotherhood was founded in Egypt in 1928 but has since grown into a pan-Arabian movement. While there is no entity in the USA called the Muslim Brotherhood, there are several organizations closely related: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_Brotherhood#United_States_of_America

    • Ted Seeber

      Sorry, I think I got them mixed up with Malcom X’s Black Panthers.

  • Confederate Papist

    Bachmann did not come out with this, by the way. John “I gave the election to Barack Obama” McCain is the one who put light on this. This was an internal sub committee investigation that was on-going.

    • Mark Shea

      And this excuses her from having to give evidence when she trumpets and doubles down on her charges how?

      • Confederate Papist

        If you were doing an internal investigation, that was unbeknownst to anyone except people you worked with, and someone blew the whistle, what would you do?

        It was on going and it’s about how the government vets people that are exposed to national security issues. The standards are applied to everyone that would be put into these positions. The investigation (which was not a public one until McCain and others opened their mouths) was exploring whether the standards were followed. If you were to go to work for the USG, your background would be scrutinised (or should be) before you would be allowed to work for, say, the State Department, or DoD, wouldn’t you think?

        They screamed about stuff like this during the 1950′s with McCarthy, but we now know he was right about the amount of communist infiltration into the USG. Can we wait another 40 years to find out whether Bachmann and others (she is part of a bi-partisan committee after all) are right? I’m sure if it’s all for naught, they will close the investigation and move on.

        • Mark Shea

          It’s really elementary: Bachmann makes a charge, then she better have the goods and back it up with evidence. She don’t back it up, she’s guilty of bearing false witness, subject to defamation lawsuits, loss of job, public shame as a slanderer. Really simple. Documenation please? This is, after all, the same person who decided to say that vaccinations cause retardation. I see no reason to trust her.

          • Confederate Papist

            You keep zooming in on Bachmann. She’s part of a committee…bi-partisan. If it was a private, internal investigation…which was still ongoing…the gathering of evidence is going to be a little more difficult, would you not think?

            Darn you! Why are you making me defend these jerks? The few times congress is doing something they *should* be doing and you’re having a hissy about Bachmann.

            Yes. She made a strange statement about vaccinations. She paid for it. I’m against vaccinations too, who the hell wants mercury injected into their bodies? But your contempt for this woman is really blinding your usual objectivity, in my opinion.

            • Mark Shea

              She wrote a letter to the Secy of State making a public accusation. Private and internal my foot. She knew perfectly well it was an inflammatory thing to do, particularly since she has yet to pony up any evidence. And now she accusing Ellison–without evidence–because he is a Muslim too. So: documentation please. It’s absurd to say that she should be cut slack because she is still “gathering evidence”. You make the accusation *after* you have gathered the evidence. If she does not pony up real evidence and fast, I hope Congresss does to her what I do to combox trolls who make baseless accusations.

              • Confederate Papist

                I hope you’re not inferring that’s what I’m doing.

                • Hezekiah Garrett

                  I don’t think he is, CP. I’d have been banne dlong ago if the Dark Lord were even considering banning you, don’t you think?

                  And yet I am as welcome here as anyone else, as long as I try to behave. I really love CAEI! for this. Even before I started catechism, I began my day with a .gif of Bugs in his steel pot.

                • Mark Shea

                  Nope. You’re obviously a good guy. I just disagree with you on this one.

                  It takes quite a lot of A Holish behavior to get booted from my blog. You exhibit none of those qualities. I like you.

                  • Confederate Papist

                    Whew….I just figured I caught you on a bad day or something….I was re-reading my previous posts wondering, “what the heck?”…lol

                    I appreciate the dialogue. I just think there is a lot of information we don’t have as of yet.

                    And I know that just because a person’s family has ties to groups that have disdain for the Western world doesn’t mean that particular person does. David Horowitz is an example of being born with a red diaper and is now a conservative…unfortunately he is too much of a neo-con, which I find almost as distasteful as a communist, but it does illustrate that people don’t always believe what others in their families believe.

                    • Confederate Papist

                      Article will give this a little more context:

                      http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2012/07/21/rep-keith-ellison-rewrites-history-on-his-muslim-brotherhood-cair-ties/?singlepage=true

                      Letter from Bachmann to Ellison is under “CP Review”.

                    • Sal

                      Yes, but David Horowitz is a journalist, not a member of the State Dept. with a high security clearance, which is the point of the Bachman, et al. investigation.
                      As for Rep. Ellison, my rule of thumb after the Holy Land Foundation trial is that anyone who aligns themselves with CAIR has ties to the Muslim Brotherhood.

                    • Mark Shea

                      “Journalist” is an awfully strong word for what Horowitz and Front Page Rag do.

          • Hezekiah Garrett

            She was a normal toddler, my friend’s sister. Then she got her DPT, and very very shortly, she regressed mentally. She’s still around, at 30 yo, and she’s as mentally handicapped as ever.

            I know correlation doesn’t equal causation, but I also know that this issue has never been seriously addressed by anyone who makes bank off of vaccines. Instead, people who raise it are derided as kooks.

            That’s not a fair way to handle questions.

            • Will (not the one above)

              Diseases like whooping cough are making a comeback in parts of the US because not enough people get the immunization. From what I understand, some babies die because they get the disease from those who have not been immunized.

              • Hezekiah Garrett

                The proper response is “So?”

                I assume you were trying to make a point by recounting a fact or two. I assume that point was that unvaccinated people kill children.

                You’re wrong. You ought to learn to think, and once you’ve done so, consider repenting?

              • Ted Seeber

                And some babies die from the shots themselves.

            • Andy

              H G if I may
              There has been some research about a connection between vaccinations and mental retardation/intellectual disability, autism, allergies, and other disabilities. None of it has shown much in the way of a positive connection existing. I am not aware of who sponsored the research so that could obviously skew it. I am truly sorry for friend’s sister, however, there are disorders that cause the sort of issues you describe that have nothing at all to do with vaccinations – Rett Syndrome springs to mind.
              Regardless of the cause the results are heartbreaking.

              • Hezekiah Garrett

                I personally don’t believe there is such a link, myself. That’s utterly beside my point.

                Its the way people who do reach such a conclusion are treated. Someone convinces themselves they are saving babies’ lives by brow-beating and insulting earnest people.

                If only it were that simple, I’d be a hero!

  • Hezekiah Garrett

    I will confess I can kind of understand western man’s fascination with vaccines. After you saw what happened to us, you’ve worked hard for centuries to find ways to make sure it never happens to you.

    But we’re better off decimated and scarred by smallpox than by selling our souls in an invasion of the Imagio Dei.

    Western man is so afraid of death he will commit any abomination in order to ‘live’. And yet most spend their entire lives in a state worse than death, from what I have seen so far the last decade and a half.

  • Austin Ruse

    Here is a piece by Andy McCarthy at PJ Media that lays out the Bachman case.

    http://pjmedia.com/andrewmccarthy/2012/07/24/huma-abedin-and-the-muslim-brotherhood-closely-connected/

    • Mark Shea

      Why doesn’t Bachmann lay out the Bachmann case instead of having rags like Front Page and neocon torture propagandists like McCarthy do it? If she’s got documentation for her charges, let’s see it.

  • Austin Ruse

    PJ Media not Front Page. I would think folks would at least want to read the evidence and then decide, whether it comes from Bachman or McCarthy…

    • Mark Shea

      I didn’t say they were. However, the other day somebody was pointing to FPM in defense of Bachmann, and now we are getting torture apologist McCarthy in defense of Bachmann. Why is nobody expecting Bachmann to produce the evidence to back up her claim?

  • Austin Ruse

    My question is, how do we know she hasn’t? All I have read about this is what I read in teh main stream media. I have not actually read anything from her and her colleagues. To be fair, we must presume that they have some evidence adn that this was not cooked up out of thin air. Presumably also, they have told someone about what backs up their claims. I suspect it is much of the evidence presented by McCarthy. i would really like to hear your thoughts on what McCarthy has presented.


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