More of that New Civility the Dems are On About

DNC drones scream at 11 year old girl for her love of innocent babies.

Excellent work, DNC drones. The way you humiliate a sweet young girl certainly looks good and persuades all people of good will of the justice of your cause. Why just look at the way you reduced her to tears:

That must have taken real courage for screaming grownups to do that to somebody a third their age. For a follow up, you should consider punching out a six year old child or perhaps push a wheel chair bound old woman down the stairs to demonstrate your awesome moral superiority and ability to bully those weaker than yourself. You certainly have my vote and, I have no doubt, the votes of all decent people when you act this way. Who could doubt the moral bona fides of a party that willingly plays host to people like you. Thanks for reminding us of what the Democrat party stands for.

  • Andy

    Mark
    Bad people yes, evil behavior yes. I see nothing in the article that says they are DNC drones. My wife who is a registered democrat is very much pro-life, and would be beyond offended by that behavior, and also your behavior. I believe that when you make statements about DNC drone or RNC drones you have to have facts that indeed tie the perpetrators to the behaviors. In this case, at least in the article you linked to there is nothing that says that.

    • Dan Berger

      From the article, they weren’t screaming at young Ms. Griffin in particular; they were just retailing their bumper stickers.

      • SpasticHedgehog

        Yeah: this article didn’t pan out the way I thought it was going to.

    • Andy, Bad Person

      Pro-abortion protestors outside the DNC? It’s really that much of a stretch?

      • Andy

        An alternative – how about “hired” trouble-makers from the RNC to make the Democrats look bad. When we make a “stretch” to make a connection we run the greater risk of impugning another person – my wife who is a registered democrat. That is my point.

        • http://davidgriffey.blogspot.com/ Dave G.

          I think the point is, that abortion rights are an official party platform with the Democrats. While some may disagree with that, it is the official party position. So it wouldn’t be surprising to see those who advocate the party’s official platform outside of the party convention.

        • http://chicagoboyz.net TMLutas

          http://sunsara.blogspot.com/2012/07/open-letter-to-those-attracted-to-iso.html

          The lady is a communist, apparently. She’s associated with WBAI and Revolution newspaper, neither of which would go anywhere near a Republican.

          How committed are you to the Democrat good/Republican bad narrative that you’re willing to put your name to this idea without even doing 30 seconds of checking to click through to the blog and the lady’s facebook page? Throwing out charges without doing even a minute of checks is uncivil. Whether it’s also a sin (bearing false witness) I leave to others who can parse that more carefully. I hope somebody does.

          • Andy

            If you are addressing me I think both suck. My statement had more to do with Marks saying these folks were Democratic drones – blanket charges like that regardless of party affiliation create the opportunity for what you call uncivilly. I read you link and have no idea of how it connects with this article.

            • http://chicagoboyz.net TMLutas

              The issue is the Democrats’ “no enemies on the left” attitude. Republicans freak out if someone breaks out the swastikas and rightly so. They recognize that these people are their enemies. The Democrats do not freak out when people break out the Che t-shirts and Mao hats. It’s not an automatic firing offense. So people who are very far out there end up being lumped in as DNC drones even though they are *very* different from your mainstream Democrats.
              The reality is that they *are* fellow travelers with the Democrat party. The Democrats don’t purge them. They make use of them. And Democrats cry like stuck pigs every time somebody points this arrangement out. Outsiders unfamiliar with the history and the strategy generally take the same tack that you do, wondering at the outbreak of incivility. If in 2012, you’re dealing with somebody who praises the Soviet Union, you are not dealing with somebody civil. You’re dealing with somebody saying “nice doggie” until the moment that they can kill you.

              • Andy

                With all due respect republicans do not freak out when people break out the swastikas – the tea party live with them – the republicans don’t purge them they embrace them – the putative republican leaders Fox News forever compares Obama to Hitler and the NAzis, when not comparing him to communists. Unless you are willing to examine what the republicans do in terms of inappropriate behaviors – Lindsay Graham – not enough angry white me – don’t lecture.

                • Andy, Bad Person

                  With all due respect republicans do not freak out when people break out the swastikas – the tea party live with them – the republicans don’t purge them they embrace them

                  Citation needed.

                  • Irenist

                    Citation needed indeed. I’m no fan of the Tea Party, but I think this is an inaccurate accusation.

                • http://chicagoboyz.net TMLutas

                  I will attempt to put the very best spin I can on your post and assume that you do not understand. If you have a person put on a Mao cap with a hammer and sickle red star and walk into a Democrat HQ and ask to volunteer they will generally accept them. If you don a like bit of headgear with an eagle clutching a swastika the GOP will throw that person out. It doesn’t happen very often, but when people are revealed to be out and out nazis (not “nazis” which is the whole GOP according to some) they do get rejected. I’ve not seen people get tossed out as Dem workers if they’re communists.

                • Rosemarie

                  +J.M.J+

                  I watch Fox News and don’t recall them comparing Obama to Hitler and the Nazis. I agree with Andy, Bad Person: Citation, please.

              • http://davidgriffey.blogspot.com/ Dave G.

                You yell barracuda, everyone says, “Huh? What?” If you yell shark – and you’ve got a panic on your hands on the Fourth of July. – JAWS

                If you yell Stalin, Mao, Lenin, you get into interesting debates and discussions about how much wrong they did vs. what other circumstances were involved and who is really to blame. You yell Hitler, Himmler, Nazi – you’ve got EVIL incarnate, no discussion, no debate. That’s a big difference.

                • http://chicagoboyz.net TMLutas

                  I agree that in certain social circles this phenomenon does happen. That is because those social circles are morally debauched. It is either both or neither. If you are a communist and actually have a mature understanding of the term, you have blood on your hands.
                  It is perfectly acceptable to discuss moral evil in interesting debates and discussions about details. It is not acceptable to pick sides and disrespect the dead who were felled by one or the other.

                  • Tim

                    Unfortunately, these”social circle” are now the democratic party. Those who still think this is JFK’s party are nothing but tools.

                    • Irenist

                      It’s not JFK’s party anymore than the G.O.P. is still Eisenhower’s or Nixon’s. Times, coalitions, and issues have changed on both sides. However much you disagree with modern Democrats, though, their leaders are not Stalinists or communists of any kind. You may find their neo-liberal vision of a mixed market/welfare economy appalling and/or part of a Road to Serfdom, but it is not actually identical to communism, anymore than advocating for a place for the Church in the public square amounts to theocracy. Precision is worth cultivating.

                    • http://chicagoboyz.net TMLutas

                      Irenist – Agreed that precision is worth cultivating. It is unfortunate that you are not precise. Some Democrats, including leaders, are communists. Occasionally, like Van Jones, it’s not too hard to dig them out. Others use euphemisms like the Democrat Socialists of America which avoids the c word while advocating the policies.
                      Ultimately, 100 million died in the 20th century demonstrating that communism is a bad idea. To continue its advocacy at this stage is to take up the burden of those dead on your own back.

    • Ted Seeber

      She isn’t offended enough by the behavior to register independent? After all, THIS is what Democrats think of pro-life Democrats:
      http://caelumetterra.wordpress.com/

      • Theresa

        Ok- I am a reg. democrat. I’m very prolife. I am offended by the pro-choice platform of the party. I have my own misgivings about this party, just as I have about other parties. But I fundamentally don’t believe in registering as an “independent” or a “no party affiliation.” I also don’t believe in registering for a “3rd party.” In those options, I would take myself out of most opportunities for voting. I can’t vote in closed elections for my representatives in legislature and I can’t participate presidential/gubernatorial primaries if I’m not registered with a major party. That goes against my understanding of faithful citizenship. And it is true that pro-choice dems look down on pro-life dems. It’s an unfortunate reality. But Christians aren’t promised an easy life. I’m personally not a fan of calling people drones, regardless of political affiliation. I think that is a dehumanizing word when the whole argument is about being inclusive in who we consider a person. But I think we can recognize frustration and anger when we see things that smack of hypocrisy. It’s so tempting to blast people for their hypocrisies and other shortcomings, especially moral ones. We really have to work together to help hold each other up over the fray and be kind in the face of anger and frustration. JMT…

        • Ted Seeber

          Just like I don’t register and vote Republican because I can’t see for the life of me what lowering taxes on the rich has to do with ending the genocide of abortion, I can’t vote Democrat because I can’t see for the life of me how killing off the poor and unfit is supposed to eliminate poverty.

          For me, registering Independent (and re-registering when there is a primary I feel like I need a voice in, then re-registering again as Independent) IS faithful citizenship- it is a vote against a country that has gone so badly off the rails, that the only real solution left is revolution. Not violent revolution, mind, that creates it’s own quandaries. But the system is so broken that it needs replacing somehow- and the seeds of how it is broken are Constitutional.

          In a different discussion somebody accused me of wanting to cause a Constitutional Crisis- and they were right on the money. Without replacing the Constitution, this country will never be moral again.

          • http://chicagoboyz.net TMLutas

            You go Ted,
            OWN that political arsonist label.

            • Ted Seeber

              I think I like “scorched earth” better, but that may be because I’ve been playing a lot of Android Atomic Bomber on my train rides recently.

              I’ve used violent video games to suppress the real violence.

      • Andy

        No she is offended when persons assume they know what is another’s heart. She stays a democrat so she can have some impact on the local level in terms of what she believes in. It may be difficult to understand, but running away from people we disagree with, not engaging them in a conversation is a form of surrender.
        As far as what Democrats think of pro-life democrats – interesting – I guess then using your rationale that pro-war, pro-torture, pro- death penalty republicans must look at republicans that oppose those actions as less then republic. By the way the link lead me to a place that reinforced my belief that RR and the republicans do not really care about abortion – it is their way of ginning up support.

        • Ted Seeber

          “: I guess then using your rationale that pro-war, pro-torture, pro- death penalty republicans must look at republicans that oppose those actions as less then republic.”

          I guarantee that they do. But ALL of those are at least 2nd tier priorities for the Republicans, who are mainly about trying to figure out how to reduce the burden of government on the rich.

          And pro-life is 10th tier. Or lower.

  • Kyle

    From the end of the article: “On the way home I felt sorry that I yelled at those people. I told my mom, and she said, “Do you know why you feel that way? It’s because you have a heart. You have a conscience, and you know what’s right and what’s wrong. Those people attacked you like that because they don’t have a heart.”

    What a horrible thing to tell a child. The people most certainly have hearts, though very misguided ones. It seems like the mother is dehumanizing the pro-aborts by making comments like that. Stirring up hatred for the “enemy” is not what we are called to do.

    • Ben

      That’s what you got from the article? Really?

      • Kyle

        It is not only this article that I notice this idea expressed in, but I am getting sick of it.
        It goes without saying that what was done to the girl was horrible. But I resent the us vs. them language when it is us vs. evil, and the people you are arguing with are broken human beings, not evil. I refuse to get riled up in hatred for people who disagree with me and I certainly object to telling 11 year-olds that there are people who do not have hearts.
        I also object to name-calling (dems, libs, neocons, what have-you) when it is not used as a genuine description of what the person adheres to because it is yet another way to dehumanize the enemy. And that is the very tactic that we claim they use to justify violence against the unborn. The Enemy’s tactics are off limits. This can only be overcome with love.

        • http://davidgriffey.blogspot.com/ Dave G.

          I sympathize with what you’re saying. I, too, have become uneasy with some of this saturation bombing approach to debating a topic. On the other hand, there’s also another trend I’ve noticed. It’s that trend of taking the focus away from the enemy at hand and centering it on fellow brothers and sisters in Christ for not doing it the way they should. Focusing on their failures in fighting the good fight, rather than the enemy we are joined in fighting. I’m not saying we can’t point out error where error exists, but sometimes we can end up all but forgetting the enemy in question, and instead shooting in the back those who are really with us, if imperfectly.

          • Kyle

            I think that’s a very important point. It makes the problem even more difficult, and in my mind more clear that we can’t do anything but by the grace of God.

            I’d also like to say that we certainly don’t have full information or the end of the story. I personally hope that the mother had a tinge of conscience about what she said just as the girl regretted yelling.

    • Richard Bell

      Actually the problem is that the truth is harder to explain. How do you explain to a child that people can know right from wrong and still choose to do wrong things. The reason that the pro-aborts are angry is that the pro-lifers will proclaim what the pro-aborts have beaten their consciences to only whisper.

      • Kyle

        I don’t know what the perfect answer is, but I think that children can grasp in some way the concept of sin. They know that they do things that they ought not do. We all do things that we know are wrong. We also do things that we think are right but are actually wrong.

        I agree with you that their consciences are ill-formed, and in my mind that should be a reason to pity them and not be angry with them.

        The proper reaction is not yelling, and even the girl recognized this after the incident. I think the mother would have better handled it by trying to explain some of the nuance of the truth, however imperfectly. But the take-home message at the end of the day was instead, “Do you know why you feel that way? It’s because you have a heart. You have a conscience, and you know what’s right and what’s wrong. Those people attacked you like that because they don’t have a heart.”

        It just makes me cringe.

    • Chris

      You’re right. They’re not heartless. They’re diabolically deranged.

      • Kyle

        Yet they are still broken human beings. We are much more like them than we are like God to put things in perspective.

        • Chris

          There’s a fine line between being a broken human being and cooperating with Satan. We’re all broken. We don’t all bow down before evil. Charles Manson is broken. So was Mother Teresa.

      • http://www.likelierthings.com Jon W

        They’re not heartless. They’re diabolically deranged.

        Good – freakin’ – grief. Don’t go out in public until you learn to discuss in a reasonable, non-inflammatory manner or this country’s done for. Sheesh.

        • http://chicagoboyz.net TMLutas

          You might want to dig up the background of this Sunsara lady, link in the original article. In 2012, she’s a committed, revolutionary communist, the kind that put people like you or me up against the wall when they have an opportunity. Literally, she’s ideologically pro-genocide. That is true even if you are using the pro-choice definition of life.
          I am not using inflammatory language here, but rather technical terms. Read her open letter talking down the ISO: http://sunsara.blogspot.com/2012/07/open-letter-to-those-attracted-to-iso.html

        • Ted Seeber

          This country was done for the second we decided to commit genocide against the poor.

    • Ted Seeber

      If they had a conscience, they wouldn’t be pro-choice.

      • Chris M

        if they had a “well formed” conscience.. that’s the real problem.

        • http://www.rosariesforlife.com Dave

          I’m not sure a conscience that figures that a woman’s “right” to convenience trumps another human being’s right to live even qualifies as a conscience at all. I tend to side with Ted here.

          Still, they have been brainwashed, and “there but for the grace of God go I.”

          • Chris M

            That’s what I’m saying.. it’s brainwashing. There’s a conscience under there, but it’s been trained to see an unborn person as a “clump of cells”. There’s a cognitive disconnect when you try to show them otherwise (y’know.. biological fact. Logic. Etc) and they’ll twist and wriggle words and half truths to keep from seeing the truth. Trust me, I know. I used to be pro-choice. It takes time and lots of patient effort to get people to really grasp the reality of it all.

            • Ted Seeber

              I was pro-choice- and yes, I agree a “well-formed” conscience is key.

              But there is also being willfully ignorant.

              For me, the dividing line was realizing that:
              http://outsidetheautisticasylum.blogspot.com/2012/05/i-am-unfit.html

              • Chris M

                There’s certainly elements of both. Although it’s hard to get over that mountain sized mental hump and admit you’ve (at least theoretically) been perfectly ok with murdering your own kids without a second thought. It’s not an abyss anyone can easily stare into.

  • Bill

    We are called to love our enemies and also pity them. And also called to let our yes mean yes and no mean no.

    I don’t think in her moment of consoling her child the mom was revealing herself to be a closest Manicheanist.

  • Bill

    Of course they would be. Yet most people wouldn’t act like this.

  • Disgusted in DC

    I don’t understand why her parents placed their little girl in a position where she would be yelled at and humiliated. Having mean people mock little girls is a hard fact of life that sometimes cannot be avoided, but good parents should protect their children against these kinds of people – - not to seek them out to give her ideologically-driven “life lessons.” This is no different than knowingly placing your son in a boarding school where you know that he will be cruelly hazed by dominating lowlifes.

    • Chris

      Yes, this girl has received signal graces from God. Let’s smother that before she finds herself turning into a saint.

    • Andy, Bad Person

      Yeah, it’s not the lowlifes who are at fault. Go on making excuses and blaming the victim.

    • Thomas R

      You know I kind of agree with you. Is a protest really a place to send a sensitive 11 year old girl? Yes there were eleven-year-old saints and martyrs, but they were exceptional. It seems like there are less confrontational things for the cause you could encourage an eleven year old to do.

      Maybe this is partly my skepticism of protests in general. I tend to think, for most issues, lobbying and lawyering are more important.

  • http://CatholicNewsLive Knittypig

    I picketed and did sidewalk counseling with my kids when they were little (all grown with their own families now). They learned a lot of really important things. One of the most important was that this kind of ugly behavior by adults is the natural result of closing off of the heart and soul to God’s truth. What the mom was trying to say to that girl is essentially that. Mom was trying to comfort her daughter in the heat of the moment. Not an easy thing to do in such a volatile atmosphere. Good for that mom encouraging her daughter to volunteer with her at such an unholy place. I think it’s important for children to have lessons like this. It drives the point home that evil exists, and that it can be alluring, but it leads to this.

  • bob

    Gee whiz, Mark, what a steaming pile of bleep. Even for you.
    According to the child’s own account, those people were obviously not attacking her individually. It was a perfectly garden variety confrontation between pro-lifers and pro-choicers at which a sensitive little girl and her obviously oversensitive mother happened to be present. The child was no more being yelled at than anyone else at the rally. It may have affected her more deeply. But in that case her parents should know better than to put her in that situation in the first place. ” ‘How dare you attack a child?’ ” Huh? First of all, lady, that’s not what was happening. They were being asinine and juvenile, but they were directing their absurdities at all of you generally, not your child specifically. Second, is this your first pro-life rally? Pro-choice/pro-life rallies are OFTEN emotional and there are OFTEN confrontations. It would be nice if these events were more civil, but they’re not, and people bringing their kids to them should know that going in.
    Also, as others have pointed out, there’s no indication at all that these were “DNC drones” so that leap is entirely yours, Mark.
    Finally, are we saying the pro-choicers have the market cornered on incivility? I’m not aware of pro-choicers forcibly blocking people’s entry to clinics, or bombing clinics, or murdering doctors at church. But I guess a crying little girl and her outraged Mommy trumps all that.

    • Mark Shea

      Good job defending driving a child to tears. Well done. Your ideas intrigue me and I want to subscribe to your newsletter.

      • http://chicagoboyz.net TMLutas

        Thank you. You’ve turned an ugly moment into a funny one.

    • Chris

      Yeah, we are definitely saying pro-choicers have cornered the market on incivility. Supporting murder seems to fit the definition of incivility. Bringing up outlier whack jobs who take matters into their own hands is not morally equivalent to a movement that puts on the rally caps when a new death mill opens.

      At any rate, let’s check the scoreboard… Abortion Doctors – 50,000,000 Babies – 0

    • Ted Seeber

      It’s hard to be more uncivil than telling everybody you deem to be unfit that they never should have been born.

      I find it hard to imagine a worse insult.

      • bob

        But there are many, many, prolifers who do support “whack jobs who take matters into their own hands.” Or if “support” is not the right word, then perhaps “understand and sympathize with” would be a bit closer.
        I think most hard core prolifers think that what that murderer did was wrong, but that he did for the right reasons and probably more good came of it than bad, and that the guy who got shot was a worse person than the guy who did the shooting. Do you think that is an apt description of mainstream pro-life opinion on that subject? I throw that question out to any and all prolifers who’d like to answer.
        As for the whole “abortion is murder” thing, OK, whatev. I don’t think abortion is murder because blastocysts/zygotes/embryos aren’t babies. But we’ve had that flame war elsewhere in the comboxes.
        THIS discussion is whether a bunch of juvenile morons are guilty of what Mark accuses them of: Seeking out a little girl to bully. The girl’s own description of events strongly indicates that they’re not. She indicates that she was upset by them generally, because of their “dark hearts and dark minds turned against God.” In other words, she was upset to find that some people are actually pro-choice.

        • Therese Z

          bob:
          “But there are many, many, prolifers who do support “whack jobs who take matters into their own hands.” Or if “support” is not the right word, then perhaps “understand and sympathize with” would be a bit closer.” Can you find any blogs or position papers that indicate this? Please provide links, we need to see the place these people are coming from.

          You say that embryos aren’t babies. You were an embryo, we all were. When exactly did you choose to become a baby? When did your mother say “guess what! I’m pregnant!” and mean a baby, instead of all the forms that inevitably progress towards baby, not liver, not horse, not oak tree. You are playing a semantic game and not well at all. Biology teaches us when life begins, and you’ve named some of the stages of that life.

          There was a time you could depend on sober people curbing their behavior in the presence of children. They could be cowed by pointing out an older lady or a child, and they would reduce or remove their swearing and talk topics. In my experience, most of society has lost this care of children. But I promise you that pro-choicers, sober, young and old, and men and women, hold nothing back no matter who is there: they scream obscenities from cars, throw bottles and cans, some full of liquid to explode all over you, leer, give you the finger, screech and grab their crotches in front of children. This is pretty standard behavior. I’ve seen them do it, personally. And the group I’ve been with in front of an abortion clinic has no upsetting signs, nothing to provoke bad behavior, just praying and singing and smiling.

          • Bob

            Therese, you asked for citations:

            Randall Terry, founder of operation Rescue, said this in reaction to George Tiller’s murder:
            “George Tiller was a mass-murderer. We grieve for him that he did not have time to properly prepare his soul to face God. I am more concerned that the Obama Administration will use Tiller’s killing to intimidate pro-lifers into surrendering our most effective rhetoric and actions. ”

            Wiley Drake, a radio host and former vice president of the Southern Baptist Convention, said: “Would you have rejoiced when Adolf Hitler died during the war? … I would have said, ‘Amen! Praise the Lord! Hallelujah! I’m glad he’s dead.’ This man, George Tiller, was far greater in his atrocities than Adolf Hitler, so I am happy; I am glad that he is dead.”

            I had to go all the way to wikipedia to find those quotes.

            Of course, there’s also ScottRoeder .org (the man who killed George Tiller), whose “purpose is to be a blessing to our dear brother Scott and biblically defend his actions. Mr. Roeder acted in defense of innocent babies …” and so on.

            And let’s not forget the eBay auction intended to raise money for the Scott Roeder Defense Fund. An Army of God manual was among the items available for purchase, along with a prison cookbook compiled by a woman doing time for abortion clinic bombings and arsons. I kid you not. http://bit.ly/TWK8Z8

            Regarding the general behavior of pro-choicers at pro-life rallies, if what you say is true, Therese, then it’s deplorable. Truly. I offer no defense. I only wonder what the behavior of pro-lifers is when they attend pro-choice rallies. I would no sooner attend one of these events (for either side) then jump off a bridge. But from what I see on TV, it’s usually people screaming at EACH OTHER.

            Finally (and I hesitate to get into this debate about the fetuses and embryos and so on) I realize that “biology teaches us when life begins,” and I fully accept that. No fear of science here. Yet it is not mere semantics to point out the differences between a baby and an embryo. The former has a consciousness. It knows it exists. The latter does not. This matters because it clarifies the moral difference between the value of these lives, at least for most people.

        • Ted Seeber

          Abortion is murder- but so is murder. I find the person who would murder the child of the poor for being poor as incomprehensible as the person who would murder the abortionist for being a murderer.

          But then again, I’m also against the Death Penalty, since I know modern pharmaceuticals are now capable of basically performing a chemical lobotomy with amnesia so complete that you can retrain the individual to do manual labor and pay restitution to victims instead.

  • Bill

    Personally I find it extremely difficult to vote GOP, but I find it impossible to vote Democrat

  • Bill

    And they just dropped God from their platform.

    • bob

      Why does God need to be in a political platform.

      • http://davidgriffey.blogspot.com/ Dave G.

        Because removing it is not some politically value neutral decision. It is a decision with an amount of buckshot to it. By now, we all should have abandoned the old idea that religion was where religiously biased agendas were, and eliminating religion is where we would get neutral, fair, and unbiased cooperation and harmony. The decision to remove God from the platform, while not wrong in and of itself, is part of a movement every bit as charged as any religion or religious language being left in.

  • Bill

    Well because this is an overwhelmingly religious country

    • bob

      But we have religions to handle the religious aspects of life. A political platform is supposed to be a statement of public policy ideas.

      • Therese Z

        Right: we don’t kill children, before or after birth. At least we shouldn’t. We don’t marry people who are not members of the opposite sex. We don’t let children marry adults, or sisters marry brothers, or anybody marry the retarded. We keep the poor from starving. We educate all citizens, no matter what color or race, for free. We don’t promote suicide.

        All public policy. All deriving from our God-given inalienable rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. The religious roots of this go back to English common law, which comes from the church, which comes from Christianity.

      • http://chicagoboyz.net TMLutas

        A country whose public policy ideas are not informed by religion is a country that is not worth living in. Have you seen what atheistic societies turn into over time?

        • Irenist

          “Have you seen what atheistic societies turn into over time?”
          Sweden?

          • http://chicagoboyz.net TMLutas

            Sweden is very light on church attendance, true. Until 2000, the Church of Sweden was a state church. Estimates of atheism in Sweden run from 17% (self-identify) all the way up to 85%. I’m thinking Sweden’s not a very good atheist poster child.

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Sweden

  • Mike Petrik

    And God is an overwhelmingly important Entity.

  • Meggan

    It’s terrible that those protesters made the little girl cry. But that’s why I wouldn’t make children part of a protest. That’s sometimes what happens at such events – people yell and get mad.

  • http://www.theleenmachine.blogspot.com KML

    Gotta say, as a parent I’m torn. There is no doubt that the adults behaved badly here and making a child cry is awful. However, whenever I see children involved in any type of protest for or against pretty much anything, it makes me cringe. Personally, there are a few guidelines I’d want to follow with my own kid. It would have to be their idea and something they felt called to do with some parental discussion about discernment, I’d have to take into account their maturity level and the cause before giving permission, and it would occasion a serious sit-down about what to expect from these things, something like, “I want to help you do this if you want to. But you need to know that there’s a possibility that people will say or do things that will hurt your feelings and make you mad. How do you think you would like to handle that?” And then maybe a couple role-plays and a talk about some prayer to turn to if they feel like the situation is beyond them. In short, this situation requires some close parental coaching and support, and a lot of parental discretion.

    God bless this girl and her sweet, sensitive heart and nature. God will surely have a big purpose for it.

  • Marion (Mael Muire)

    I grew up in a different era: I was a little girl during the 1960s – Leave It To Beaver and Andy of Mayberry times.

    Parents had a different view of safety for children. Few families used seat belts in their cars, and no one ever heard of car seats. Helmets were for motorcyclists – not for a kid on a bicycle or a skateboard. We went bareheaded and beltless everywhere.

    But back then educated parents were nevertheless very protective: the understanding was that there were events suitable for children and families and other events were suitable for grown-ups and nearly grown-ups only. Somehow over the last 40 years or so, we have developed a school of thought that calls itself the “Children Are People Too!” school: anywhere adults go, children ought to go, too. I was shocked to read that little babies had been brought to the midnight showing of The Dark Knight we read about in the paper lately. Heck, I wouldn’t be surprised if spectators bring their little tots to court to listen to a murder trial because “it will be good for them.” Are there third-graders brought to hang out in smoke-filled back rooms listening to the wheeling and dealing of political hacks, and do casino executives have their 8-year-olds visit to look over the shoulder of the “eye in the sky” crew, monitoring the action on the floor below?

    There are some places that are not suitable for young children to be brought, and especially places where it is foreseeable that there will be adults behaving badly who might even go so far as to ill-use a young one. Naturally, the parents’ wrong-headed decision to bring a child into such a situation does not constitute an excuse for those who would victimize a child. We already know the extent to which those who support “Choice” are solicitious of the well-being of children: why would loving parents deliberately bring a child into their midst? is my question.

    • http://www.theleenmachine.blogspot.com KML

      Marion, I highly recommend Neil Postman’s great book “The Disappearance of Childhood” for a great discussion of a few of the things you mention.

  • EBS

    Exactly, don’t take children to such protests. It’s not a place for young children because of exactly what was demonstrated in the article. Children dont need to be exposed to everything in life, there are plenty of time as adults to do this. If you want to teach them certain values, teach them the value of prayer and it’s power.

  • Frank McManus

    Does anyone really believe the words attributed to that 11-year-old girl were actually written by her? The sensibility — not to mention the flawless grammar and spelling and the keen narrative skill — is that of an adult. I smell some BS.
    Also, the pro-choice demonstrators sound pretty suspicious too: What pro-abortion person would ever chant “A baby’s not a baby until it comes out”? The chant contradicts itself. Reminds me of those “pro-business” demonstrators at Occupy Wall St. last year — they dressed up in suits and went around declaring how being a rich Wall St. guy working in finance was an obvious sign of personal superiority, and should be protected for that reason. They were fake. So, most likely, are these pro-choice types, or else their actions have simply been fabricated by the author of the blog post.

    • Will

      I guess my memories, and the rest of the family’s, of what I was like when I was eleven are all made up too.

      And what is improbable about the abortion lobby chants not making sense? If ideologues will beat people up in the name of “peace” (and kindly spare me more assertions that what happened to ME did not happen), wny should anything they do make more sense?


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