Fake Confirmations

More of that great “fruit” of the fraud at Medjugorje.

Stay as far away as you can from that dog and pony show.  It’s a lie.

  • http://www.rosariesforlife.com Dave

    This has nothing to do with Medjugorje as far as I can tell, other than the fact that the Franciscan order is assigned to the parish in Medjugorje, and it is also former Franciscans running the “parish” in Capljina.

    It seems that the argument in the linked piece is that if Our Lady of Medjugorje was real, she would certainly denounce what happened…even though there are no recorded apparitions that I know of that have ever denounced any illicit local Church practice that was going on.

    If I were a Medjugorje detractor, I’d stick with Ivan’s alleged amassing of a fortune. At least that actually has something to do with the apparitions.

  • JackGrimes

    Mark, did you read the article you linked? You risk calumny here. The fake confirmations are being done in a church 8 miles away from Medjugorje. The rebel friars have no communion (as far I can see) with the visionaries nor the Medjugorje parish, which His Excellency Bishop Perić himself visits to administer real confirmations. The only accusation against the visionaries your linked article can make is that of Not Speaking Out. Isn’t that correct?

  • Matthew Remlinger

    The article shows dissent from the Bishop’s authority and does, in fact, link the sacrilegious actions of those in control of that Church with pro-Medjugorje believers. Thank you Mark for exposing more of the “fruits” of this fraud.

    God willing one day these people that chafe against the authority of the Bishop, including the seers themselves, will end this lie and turn back to truth.

  • http://www.rosariesforlife.com Dave

    Exactly what is the link then, Matthew? I couldn’t see it and I read the article. Some people who believe in Medjugorje disobey the Church? I hate to say it, but applying that standard would rule out every apparition in history.

    • Matthew Remlinger

      It’s the quote from the Old Catholic Deacon pretending to be a Bishop “Our aim is to make the Pope revoke the Romanis Pontificibus decree through these confirmations… the Franciscans and I believe in Mary’s apparitions in Medjugorje” that Diane was quoting from Bishop Peric’s Homily. Mark was right in showing stating this as being “fruit” from the fraud at Medj.

      And you are wrong about other apparitions – all approved apparitions have obedience to the local ordinary in their history. Even many saints as well.

      And regardless, apparitions don’t bring us to Heaven. Jesus Christ and His sacrifice and faithfulness to the Church He established with Apostolic Authority does.

      These charlatans need to get themselves in line with the Church.

      • Dave

        The visionaries of other approved apparitions have been obedient, but that doesn’t necessarily apply to every single supporter of a given apparition. Disobedient souls often tend to use anything possible to try to gain adherents to their cause.

      • JackGrimes

        Is the Westboro cult a “fruit” of the Bible?

        Is Fr. Corapi a “fruit” of the Catechism of the Catholic Church?

  • Ivan

    The article is about few ex-priests and ex-franciscians. And they do not have much in comon with Međugorje…

  • Matthew Remlinger

    The Diocesan website for Mostar-Duvno (Medjugorje’s Diocese) has a very concise history (in English) of the going-ons at Medj. I love how detailed and clear it is that Bishop Peric (the local ordinary) does not support the fake apparitions.

    From Bp. Peric on the website – “The Church, from the local to supreme level, from the beginning to this very day, has clearly and constantly repeated: Non constat de supernaturalitate! This practically means no pilgrimages are allowed that would presuppose any supernatural character to the apparitions, there exists no shrine of the Madonna and there are no authentic messages, revelations nor true visions!”

    Check it out here:
    http://www.cbismo.com/index.php?menuID=98

    I am certain that truth will prevail in stating the fraud that is Medjugorje.

    • Matthew Remlinger

      Bishop Peric is awesome. From his homily in 2006 at the Church in Medjugorje:

      “Therefore I responsibly call upon those who claim themselves to be “seers”, as well as those persons behind the “messages”, to demonstrate ecclesiastical obedience and to cease with these public manifestations and messages in this parish. In this fashion they shall show their necessary adherence to the Church, by neither placing private “apparitions” nor private sayings before the official position of the Church. Our faith is a serious and responsible matter. The Church is also a serious and responsible institution!”

      He calls for obedience and they do not follow… this was 7 years ago.

      Here’s the direct link to this homily:
      http://www.cbismo.com/index.php?mod=vijest&vijest=365
      Again from the Diocesan website.

      • http://www.rosariesforlife.com Dave

        What do you mean they didn’t follow? To my understanding, they did follow and the messages and alleged apparitions no longer occur in the church or in association with the parish, as they had earlier.

        • Matthew Remlinger

          Read the links Dave… I’m not going to walk you through the very clear message that the Bishop that’s in charge of the pastoral care and people of his Diocese makes about those fraud seers and fake apparitions. That’s why I posted them.

          • http://www.rosariesforlife.com Dave

            I’m quite aware of what the local Bishop thinks? The question is, why then is this apparition not dead and buried, as happens with the vast majority of apparitions condemned by the local bishop, but rather the Yugoslavian Bishops as a whole, and now the Vatican itself are looking at it?

            • Matthew Remlinger

              You know Dave, the facts are all out there. We can go back and forth and get into a word battle here, but all it really takes is for you to step back from what you want to believe is true and look at it within the context of the facts, the Church, and her teachings.

              Bishop Peric submits to the authority of Rome (and I’m sure he can’t wait for a pronouncement – whether declared publicly or privately – of it’s findings) as such, the seers should submit to the authority of the Bishop.

              Medjugorje is a fraud with the same basic messages repeated thousands and thousands and thousands of times in slightly different ways. I’m sure after the first few hundred times these charlatan seers had enough practice to do it indefinitely for over 25 years. Ask yourself these questions to see through the smoke and mirrors:

              Where is the great sign that was supposedly prophesied?
              Why haven’t the promises that were supposedly given been revealed in any way?
              Where is the book that would be read by the world?
              Why did Vicka flinch in the middle of her “ecstasy”?

              Maybe if you start to question and unpack the unexplained and forever-in-limbo prophesies, you would be lead to the most problematic questions of all:

              Why haven’t these seers submitted to the authority of the Bishop?
              Why has there been so MUCH scandal surrounding the Franciscan clergy that had ministered to the seers?
              Why do people care so much about something that is not needed to enter into Heaven?

              If someone told me that Fatima was ridiculous, which I do in fact believe is a true apparition, I wouldn’t fight the Fatima battle to the death. I know that people can take and leave apparitions. Why are people so quick to defend Medj? Because they want to believe it? Because they don’t like how the truth of it’s fraudulence is becoming more widespread? Or because they know in their hearts that something is just not right about it and they don’t want to be wrong?
              Thanks be to God we have the Church, the Eucharist , the Bible, and the successor of Peter and the Apostles here to guide us when fraud visions, fallen folk-heroes, or any lies-that-pretend-to-be-truths disappoint or discourage us. I strive to seek the truth at all times – as He never disappoints or fails me.

  • http://www.rosariesforlife.com Dave

    Matthew,
    You have misunderstood me. I don’t really care one way or the other. I think it will be great when and if there is a definitive judgment. I trust the Vatican commission to work through all the issues. I am only pointing it out when there are (what I see as) unfair attacks against Medjugorje, such as guilt by association, etc. I don’t believe it is true that the visionaries, at the very least the ones still living in the Mostar diocese, have been disobedient to the bishop. However, again, whatever you and I might think from our position thousands of miles away, I am sure the Vatican commission has it all under control, and is taking all of these things, including the alleged disobedience, into consideration.

    As far as the “great sign”, yeah, it has been 30+ years, but then again we’ve been waiting almost 100 years for the promised “Era of Peace” predicted at Fatima.

    • Matthew Remlinger

      For someone that doesn’t really care one way or the other, you sure do champion the cause of the disobedient visionary charlatans. Thousands of miles doesn’t change the fact that lies and deception are being touted as truth. I stand by my previous post.

      • http://www.rosariesforlife.com Dave

        All I know is that it sure is taking a long time for the Yugoslavian bishops, and now a commission of Vatican experts to recognize the so-called obvious lies and deception by disobedient visionary charlatans. That’s why I tend to think there just might be a bit more to the story than what the anti-Medjugorje side has put forward.

  • bernard

    Perhaps Matthew can give provide an answer as to why the Church is taking so long to denounce the Medjugorje phenomenon if it is the deception he claims it to be? 32 years and still counting. I know “the Church does not hurry” but if Medjugorje is such a danger to the faith and morals of the faithful and the unfaithful, then why hasn’t the “fraudulent operation” been shut down by now?


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