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Abbey Roads Wonders What Crusaders Against Lying Think…

…about the Archdiocese of NY cooperating with evil. Terry Nelson writes:

Isn’t that just like lying – to say one thing and to do another?  So the Archdiocese pays for health care policies which offer contraception coverage to their Catholic employees – yet they condemn Obamacare as a threat to religious liberty?

The Archdiocese of New York has previously acknowledged that some local Catholic institutions offer health insurance plans that include contraceptive drugs to comply with state law; now, it is also acknowledging that the archdiocese’s own money is used to pay for a union health plan that covers contraception and even abortion for workers at its affiliated nursing homes and clinics.

Saying one thing and doing another can be lying or can be *like* lying. In this case, it’s merely *like* lying (since I’m not aware of them ever *denying* they have these policies). What it is, is hypocrisy.  If I say, “I am doing X” but am not doing X, I lie.  If I say, “You should do X” but don’t promise to do it myself and instead do the opposite, I am not a liar, but a hypocrite. But that’s pretty cold comfort.  At the end of the day, the message of Cdl. Dolan  is “American Catholics!  You get out there and resist!  We’re right behind you as you sacrifice and suffer and fight–but we aren’t going to do any of that stuff ourselves.  Instead, we’ll pay for abortions with your tithes.”

It’s a good thing I’m not a Catholic due to the awesomeness of bishops. I’m a Catholic due to the awesomeness of Jesus Christ.  As one of my readers put it, Catholics generally assume that one out of twelve bishops will hand Jesus over to be murdered, one will deny him, nine will abandon him, and only one will show up at the foot of the cross while not having a clue about his Resurrection even when he’s standing in the mouth of the empty tomb staring at his empty graveclothes. Apostles and their successors are not chosen for their holiness because no Catholic is chosen for his holiness.  However, we hope they like we will eventually become holy because they were chosen–hopefully.  Meanwhile, the Church continues to do its best to nuke itself.  You can only shake your head and soldier on.

  • Ed Mechmann

    Actually, it’s neither compromise, nor hypocrisy. Its coercion: http://blog.archny.org/steppingout/?p=2846.

    • Rosemarie

      +J.M.J+

      Thanks, Ed. I guess it is a different situation.

    • kmk1916

      Thanks for the clarification. I hope everyone who read the post will read your article.

    • Benjamin

      Did the Roman Catholic Church just use a document from the Enlightenment written by deists defend their position? Wow. Just wow, that takes the cake when it comes to brazen hypocrisy.

      • chezami

        Benjamin: Not only that Catholics make use of pagans like Plato and Aristotle and Muslims like Averroes. If you used your intellect instead of worshipping it, you might be surprised by the Catholic intellectual tradition’s conviction that all truth is God’s truth, even when spoken by an Enlightenment deist.

        • Benjamin

          So do you believe in the naturalist, deist, Enlightenment notions about government as outlined in the DOI or traditional Christian notions as outlined in Romans 13:1-7:

          ” Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. 2 Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. 3 For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, 4 for he is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God’s wrath on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God’s wrath but also for the sake of conscience. 6 For because of this you also pay taxes, for the authorities are ministers of God, attending to this very thing. 7 Pay to all what is owed to them: taxes to whom taxes are owed, revenue to whom revenue is owed, respect to whom respect is owed, honor to whom honor is owed.”

          This is about as far as you can get from

          ” Governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, –That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government,”.

          • Andrew Brew

            They are different subjects, are the not? The first is a statement that governing authority is real, and an an enumeration of some of its powers (do you think that the present US government would repudiate any of that authority, or those powers? The second is a theory about the derivation of that authority. Where is the contradiction?

            • Benjamin

              One says that governing authority is from God, and by divine right, and that for such a reason government authority should be obeyed as part of a divine plan.

              The other says that, on the contrary, governments are instituted *among men*, and derive their powers, not from a deity, but from the consent of those that are being governed.

              • chezami

                “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are *created* equal, that they *endowed by their Creator* with certain inalienable rights”. For Jefferson as much as for St. Paul, the origin of government is God, because the purpose of the state is to protect the common good because all humans are in the image of God.

              • Andrew Brew

                One is discussing ultimate origin, the other proximate origin.

                As Mark points out, for the Deist quite as much as the Christian God is the ultimate source of all reality (in fact, that is the *entire* point of being a Deist). I grant that the two positions can be distinguished, but to suggest that they are as far apart as can be is waaay overstating your case. On the contrary, they could hardly be more similar while actually being distinguishable.

        • Benjamin

          And it’s not just Paul, or just in the Bible. I wish we had a time machine so you and the Catholic Bishops could go to 19th Century Rome and tell Pius IX that you think “governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed” and see what his reaction would be. It would quite literally be anathema.

          • chezami

            You need to familiarize yourself wih a bit of Catholic history. The Dominicans are the oldest democratically run institution on planet earth in existence today. If self-rule is “anathema” then you’d think Rome would have noticed this. The English Parliamentary system was an invention of medieval Catholic Europe. And Magna Carta was drafted by a Benedictine. Instead of just going for sound bites downloaded from some atheist slogan site try using and not merely worshipping that modest intellect of yours.

          • http://www.subcreators.com/blog Lori Pieper

            As for Pius IX himself, he came into office as a “liberal” favoring reform and constitutional government — until the republican movement began to show its anti-clerical colors, assassinated his prime minister, and eventually drove him out of Rome. Oops. After that, yes, Pius had little taste for modern styles of government. Surprised? This was a tragedy all the way around, with something to be said on both sides. Your meat-cleaver approach to history wouldn’t impress any real historian.

    • AquinasMan

      This is no excuse. The way to stop coercion is to not be coerced. Sure, that may involve significant suffering, however, “pick up your cross”… The only leverage (and it’s a big one) against this administration is to convey readiness to go nuclear. But that was clearly never seriously considered. Upshot: “We were only following orders” is not a motto of Christian virtue.

      • Benjamin

        The upshot is that the Bishops don’t really believe in any of this. It’s political posturing to appeal to Republicans and bamboozle Catholics so they forget about the abuse scandal.

        • http://www.subcreators.com/blog Lori Pieper

          I imagine a troll knows a great deal about posturing.

      • http://www.subcreators.com/blog Lori Pieper

        Not hypocrisy – it’s called “being between a rock and a hard place.”

        Let’s not forget what’s actually at stake – the future of Catholic hospitals and health care. Yes, it would maybe be possible to drop giving employees health insurance altogether (and have them quit en masse); it would be great to close all Catholic hospitals in New York and remain “pure.”

        When that happens, all our hospitals will be taken over by the State and will become wholly owned subsidiaries of the Culture of Death – forget about any conscience protection as we get coerced participation of Catholic health care personnel in abortions, sterilizations and euthanasia, to name a few. No toehold in health care anywhere for the Catholic moral view and practice. Tolerating a lesser evil like this one can prevent a much greater one. Right now, Gov. Cuomo is trying to put through legislation that would make your toes curl, elevating abortion in the state to the most sacred human right – yes, above even religious liberty.

        Believe me, this is EXACTLY what the Obama administration wants. It’s what big abortion and Planned Parenthood want. They want us to fold completely.

        The bishops are now fighting the HHS mandate, and this one is for all the marbles. If the mandate crumbles (and legally, it looks like it will), then all the state mandates crumble too. I trust that the bishops are doing as well as humanly possible here.

        • Half Heathen

          Better to enter into Eternal Life with no hospital than to go to Gehenna with the finest healthcare system in the world. The progressives wouldn’t mind at all taking hospitals away from the Church. They would much, much prefer that the Church kept its hospitals while kowtowing to the culture of death.

  • Ken Crawford

    I’m with Ed that this is neither hypocrisy nor lying. The arch-diocese fought the NY State mandate in court and lost. Saying they didn’t fight it is inaccurate.

    Furthermore, with all things political and legal, there is the matter of when it is prudent to try and up-end a wrong and when it is futile and sometimes counter-productive (if nothing else because the futile effort could be focused on something else more likely to produce a good).

    We’ve got the same problem here in CA and our bishops valiantly tried to fight it and lost in court as well. They also tried the public pressure on the legislature route to no avail. So they’re (I guess I should say we’re, since some of my collection plate money does end up in the diocese hands) paying for contraception. Does that make it wrong of them to fight it as part of Obamacare, to try and save others from the legal handcuffs that we are in?

    Not in my opinion.

  • Loretta

    Don’t feed the troll.

  • Newp Ort

    I never liked all the we cannot comply comments, because the truth is more like some of us are already doing it, and we’ll probably comply when the law is passed.

  • kirthigdon

    Yes, this is caving in to coercion and frankly that is what the Church usually does. As long as rulers don’t explicitly claim divinity (regardless of whether they believe the claim themselves) and allow the Mass and sacraments to be celebrated, the Church will usually cave on everything else, even including evangelization. Survive and wait for better times is the policy.
    The hypocrisy lies in the rallying of the lay people with lots of civil rights rhetoric and talk of bishops going to jail or being martyred. The bishops instead will still be going to lavish dinners with the evil politicians responsible for attacks on the Church and the moral law and yes, we’ll again see Cardinal Dolan yucking it up with BHO. The only people likely to end up in jail are the Catholic lay people who take the rhetoric too seriously.
    Kirt Higdon

  • Karen LH

    I wish that people (esp. those without training in moral theology) who are accusing respected bishops (like Dolan) and moral theologians (like Janet Smith) of bad faith in this situation would stop and take a breath. There are other sins against the eighth commandment besides lying.


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