Gay Adoption…

…certainly will not be about chronic narcissists using children to accessorize their narcissism or anything.  Just ask this boy who was brainwashed into a sex change operation by his two mommies.

  • J. Peter Nixon

    A few points.

    First, I live in the Bay Area and know a fair number of lesbian parents (some adopted, some had kids naturally). They are not, by and large, any more narcissistic than the average parent. Their reasons for having kids are pretty similar to the reasons that most straight couples have kids.

    Second, I don’t think the evidence in the article supports the assertion that they have “brainwashed” this child. I suspect that if they had wanted a girl child, they could easily have adopted one. I suspect they were as concerned about their son’s behavior as any straight parent would be. Seeing your child self-mutilate must be a terrifying thing.

    Third, gender identity confusion is a real phenomenon. Again, living in the Bay Area, I have known some transexual individuals and in all cases they spent years trying really, really hard to live as their biological gender. They often married, had kids, etc. Some of the ones I’ve worked with have been extraordinary leaders in their professions. They were not mentally ill or people who otherwise had difficulty coping with their lives. But at some point, they just couldn’t keep up what they felt to be a pretense.

    Now having said all that, I’m still uncomfortable with the way the parents are handling this. There is a LOT we still don’t know about how the wires get crossed that lead to a gender identity at variance with biological identity. Puberty in a boy tends to release a lot of powerful male hormones. It is at least possible that those changes could lead to another change in the child’s self-understanding. I know that does not happen in all cases. But given the state of our knowledge, there is an argument for taking a conservative approach to treatment.

    For me, the bottom line is that “watchful waiting” keeps the child’s options open into adulthood when they are able to make a truly adult choice. The approach the parents are taking, by contrast, seems to close off options prematurely.

    • http://www.likelierthings.com/ Jon W

      they spent years trying really, really hard to live as their biological gender

      I’m genuinely curious as to what this might mean. Is there some kind of “standard role” that people feel like they must try to live out if they are a man or a woman?

      • mephis

        I find it a bit confusing that the world is simultaniously trying to tell me that there’s absolutely no difference between men and women, and that there’s a huge difference that people with a different gender identity can’t possibly ever hope to overcome. One of those two might be true (though neither of them have to be, these are both pretty extreme), but both? O_o

        • Imp the Vladaler

          “It’s the differences – of which there are none – that make the sameness exceptional.” –Principal Seymour Skinner, attempting to explain why boys and girls excel in different subjects without offending anyone.

    • Noor

      It’s a very difficult situation.Considering the mental anguish trans children go through when they reach puberty, i think they are making a wise decision. Puberty changes body irreversibly and makes later medical intervention more difficult.

      • Imp the Vladaler

        Well, that’s an answer, but I’m pretty sure it’s not the answer that the Church would give. I’m fairly certain that the Church would say that you have to keep the sexuality, gender identity, and body parts that you were given, but someone more informed than I would have to tell you whether the Church has said anything definitive in response to the science of the past quarter-century or so.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Patrick-J-Loveless/100000216363826 Patrick J Loveless

        Mightn’t the mental anguish be less because the body is wrong and more because the mind is? That is how it usually is when the body is perfectly healthy, even if it is the “wrong gender”.

        • Guest

          What’s your point? Even if you consider it a mental disorder, transition is a very efficient way to improve their quality of life.

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Patrick-J-Loveless/100000216363826 Patrick J Loveless

            You would call the destruction, mutilation, or otherwise disabling of a perfectly healthy human body and reproductive tract “transition”?

            • Noor

              It’s the best option considering the situation. Do you know of any other method that professionals are unaware of?

              • http://www.facebook.com/people/Patrick-J-Loveless/100000216363826 Patrick J Loveless

                Psychiatry? The body is healthy. It doesn’t need treatment. It is a mental disorder. If you have a male body but think you are a female, is that not a miscognition by your mind of who you are?

                • Noor

                  Psychiatrists use a wide range of treatments for mental disorders.It’s not just psychotherapy.For some disorders, psychotherapy is not the main treatment.
                  Sex reassignment surgery is recommended by many psychiatrists for GID. Other methods are not very effective.

                  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Patrick-J-Loveless/100000216363826 Patrick J Loveless

                    I doubt that, but as I have neither proof nor experience in the matter, I can’t challenge it, either.

                    All I can say is… why, if the body is perfectly healthy, must it always be the fault of the body? It seems to me GID is always considered the fault of the body for not conforming to the mind, whether the mind is right or wrong. (Because the treatment for GID is often the body being changed – mutilated, made LESS healthy and functional – to fit the mind.) That doesn’t make sense to me.

                    It seems physical reality trumps mental realities. After all, we do not say horses ought to have horns glued to their heads because our minds tell us they must be unicorns. Why do we say men’s penises ought to be cut off and sculpted into vaginas because their minds tell them they should have them?

                    • Noor

                      Treatments are not about making sense. The best treatments are the ones with the best results and right now the best results are achieved through transitioning.

                    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Patrick-J-Loveless/100000216363826 Patrick J Loveless

                      I assume “results” are means towards an end, right?

                      What is the ends of the practise of medicine? Good health, as near as it can be attained. So treatments are about attaining a desired result. So, yes, they are about making sense.

                      This “treatment” does not make sense because it makes a perfectly functioning human body LESS healthy than it was before. A better treatment, which would attain the end of health as good as can be attained would be to treat and change the mind to match its physical reality.

                      I want sufferers of this disease to be happy. I also want them to be healthy. Impotence is a disability, not a small thing. Giving someone a disability so they will be happy is not good medicine.

    • TheodoreSeeber

      ” Their reasons for having kids are pretty similar to the reasons that most straight couples have kids.”

      How can that possibly be? Have I missed the revolution that makes genetic sperm redundant naturally without technological intervention?

      • AshleyWDC

        Deliberate obtuseness is not an attractive trait, sweetheart.

        • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1235643522 Faith Roberts

          LOL! But calling strangers ‘sweetheart’ condescendingly is attractive? Call me crazy (or sweetheart!) but I don’t think you care very much about what is attractive here. And also I think you might be playing the deliberate obtuseness card yourself since obvious what was meant was that it takes a male and a female to make a baby. Annoying biological fact there. . . .

          • bob

            You’re annoying biological fact is annoying only because it’s irrelevant. What sperm has to do with why people want children is, um, nothing.

            • http://www.facebook.com/people/Patrick-J-Loveless/100000216363826 Patrick J Loveless

              It has plenty to do with it. It has to do with how you get the little bugger in the first place.

              • bob

                Bill, and Patrick: again, how people GET children (how babies are made) and why people WANT children are two DIFFERENT things. One has nothing to do with the other. So, please, if you want to respond, don’t respond by saying, “oh but you need a man and a woman to make a baby,” because you DON’T need a man and a woman to WANT to make a baby. Which is the issue.

                • http://www.facebook.com/people/Patrick-J-Loveless/100000216363826 Patrick J Loveless

                  You might be on to something.

                  For we know you can divorce the two. But to what effect?

                  It is a slap in the face, a kick in the groin, a blasphemy against any children you might have, any partners you might claim you are married to, to anyone who donates sperm or egg, and to yourself to divorce the two. You commit a grave insult to all three (or four) parties, including yourself. You do this when you say you must divorce yourself from your partner to have a child (you sure aren’t uniting to have the child!), or you must divorce a child from your partner.

                  As for infertility? It is a bodily disorder that can and should be treated for the sake of one’s health. Homosexuality can never unite this divorce of child from his parents. He will always be estranged from one or the other. The child of two mothers or fathers will always wonder: where is my father? Or, where is my mother?

                  I realise this already happens so much. 80% of black children have no fathers at home. It’s a tragedy, which is why I speak all the more against fatherless or motherless homes, and loveless ones, all. I don’t want to compromise my family. I want the best families we can have. These are neither single parent, nor two homosexuals, nor two who really don’t love each other. I want a mother and a father who both love each other. I will settle for no less. Shame you feel you have to.

                  Marc Barnes could teach you more than I could. He at least speaks more eloquently on them matter. Read what he has to say on the issue.
                  http://www.patheos.com/blogs/badcatholic/2013/04/why-the-church-would-be-so-ridiculous-as-to-oppose-ivf.html

            • Bill

              Bob, I humbly propose that it is very relevant. The issue is connected with the notion of a couple (or other combination of adults) “having” kids. In marriage, the man and woman simply live out their natural purpose: sex, coupled with fidelity and complimentary nature results in a baby created out of love. In so-called gay “marriage”, in 100% of the cases, the couple (or other combination) must procure the human being in some other way, involving others.

    • AshleyWDC

      Thanks for the thoughtful and informed response. It stands in sharp contrast to Mark’s self-absorbed condemnation.

      • Pavel Chichikov

        You’re a mind-reader?

    • Imp the Vladaler

      Not to defend any of the decisions that this couple has made for this child, but I don’t necessarily see any connection between their homosexuality and their decision to fiddle with the child’s sexual anatomy and physiology. I could see a heterosexual married couple making the same decision had they adopted this child. And I certainly don’t think being parented by homosexuals is the cause of the child’s gender identity disorder.

      • Zai

        Well, that’s because there is no connection, beyond (perhaps) their being more open to the option they chose, but the article seems to negate that line of thinking. What causes the child’s gender identity disorder is clearly something far more complicated than being raised by two members of the same gender. People should slow down and think before typing…oh, interwebs…lolz

        • http://www.facebook.com/rebecca.fuentes.92 Rebecca Fuentes

          There is very little information to come to a conclusion one way or another. The boy was adopted at age 2. We don’t know anything about his life before that. Was he neglected and/or abused? Did he lose his parents tragically? Did he come from a stable, long-term foster home? Either way, any child transitioning from one family to another at such a young age is likely to have problems. They are too young to understand what is happening and why, just that all that is familiar is gone. We know very little about the couple’s parenting techniques, about the hundred of little interactions that happen every day, certainly not how they responded to his claim to be a girl at age 3. We don’t know what parenting techniques and attitudes happened between that incident and when he tried to mutilate himself at a slightly older age. I would have taken a child to an experienced child counselor or psychiatrist who had worked with children with similar backgrounds at that point. We don’t know if they sought any sort of counseling for him or themselves or the family as a group. We do know that there was no father in the house. I can’t say HOW that affected him, though I believe it did. I think it is likely that people who see homosexuality as a natural lifestyle choice instead of a disordered attraction are more likely to embrace the idea that “our son really thinks he is and wants to be a girl” instead of coming to the conclusion “our son need some professional help before we decide he is somehow innately a girl at heart.” The whole thing does make me very sad, because I can’t see the road being very easy for this child.

          • Noor

            Read the article. They child has a gender identity disorder diagnosis.The parents have obviously sought counseling.

            • http://www.facebook.com/rebecca.fuentes.92 Rebecca Fuentes

              I did read it, but was unsure if they went to the psychiatrist for extended counseling/therapy or just a diagnosis.

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Patrick-J-Loveless/100000216363826 Patrick J Loveless

            I can’t imagine what the drug therapy is bound to be like – or his sex life, if he ever has one.

            Oh, God, the stupid and cruel things people do to their children.

            Sirach 30:7-14 –

            He who spoils his son will have wounds to bandage, and will quake inwardly at every outcry. A colt untamed turns out stubborn; a son left to himself grows up unruly. Pamper your child and he will be a terror for you, indulge him and he will bring you grief. Share not in his frivolity lest you share in his sorrow, when finally your teeth are clenched in remorse.Give him not his own way in his youth, and close not your eyes to his follies.Bend him to the yoke when he is young, thrash his sides while he is
            still small, Lest he become stubborn, disobey you, and leave you
            disconsolate. Discipline your son, make heavy his yoke, lest his folly humiliate you.Better a poor man strong and robust, than a rich man with wasted frame.

            Even if this were not the word of God, would not these confused women and their mutilated boy have benefited from such fatherly wisdom?

            • http://www.facebook.com/rebecca.fuentes.92 Rebecca Fuentes

              I am inclined to think he needs healing more than discipline for this. This is not a child who is stubbornly refusing to put away his toys, insists on sneaking cookies before dinner, or is even stealing things. He’s having deep distress about his core identity. It’s heartbreaking.

              I do love Sirach, though.

              • http://www.facebook.com/people/Patrick-J-Loveless/100000216363826 Patrick J Loveless

                A parent’s job is to discipline his and her children in how to be a human being. Chastity, knowing and living out your sexuality genuinely, is part of discipline.Chastity, simply, means genuinely living out your humanity and your sexuality.

                A good parent will teach a boy how to live out his masculinity, and a girl her femininity. I imagine these two women were not taught by their parents – as is the case with so many of us these days – how to genuinely live out their female sexuality. They can’t teach a child what they don’t have. They cannot teach this boy how to love himself and to be himself lovingly. Instead, they did what they knew how to do, what they were taught to do.

                This will bring grief on them and him because he will be lacking something – and not just his genitals. He will be lacking his true self, which he unknowingly gave up – and his parents, not knowing what else to do, complied in doing. It is tragic.

                I’m coming off of reading this article by Marc:
                http://www.patheos.com/blogs/badcatholic/2013/05/is-female-purity-bullshit.html

                So might read it if any of this seems confusing.

                • http://www.facebook.com/rebecca.fuentes.92 Rebecca Fuentes

                  Not confusing at all–I completely agree.Dr. Popcak has made similar excellent points on his Patheos blog. My point was that, in this case, the boy’s determination that he is not a boy could come from an earlier source, not just the irregular structure of his home. I was wondering about something earlier in his life which might have laid the foundation, which was then built upon crookedly by not having a strong, loving father and mother model. Fr. DeGrandis talks about how one of the most important moments in a child’s life is when the mother realizes (or confirms) she is pregnant, and whether she reacts positively or negatively. The child’s spirit can clearly sense the reaction and its direction, and either leaps with joy at being loved or withdraws in confusion at being rejected and unloved. Consistent messages of this type throughout pregnancy and infancy would confirm for a child that there is something intrinsically wrong about himself. Having two mothers may have given it a direction it wouldn’t have otherwise taken.
                  When I refer to healing, it’s the healing of such rejection and unlove experienced very young in life. Only Christ can–he is not bound by time, so not blocked or unable to heal things in the past. Forgiveness of those who rejected the child is important. It makes me sad because I don’t see this boy receiving any of this. Once we call something inborn, normal, acceptable, instead of recognizing it as a sign of wounding or damage, we deny the need for healing, forgiveness or prayer about that thing.

    • TheodoreSeeber

      “Third, gender identity confusion is a real phenomenon. Again, living in the Bay Area, I have known some transexual individuals and in all cases they spent years trying really, really hard to live as their biological gender. They often married, had kids, etc. Some of the ones I’ve worked with have been extraordinary leaders in their professions. They were not mentally ill or people who otherwise had difficulty coping with their lives. But at some point, they just couldn’t keep up what they felt to be a pretense.”

      This must be some strange definition of mental illness of which I have not previously been aware- you claim they were not mentally ill, but everything you describe sounds *exactly* like my own asperger’s, and I am mentally ill.

      • Zai

        I think the problem is that our culture is ingrained to believe that anything regarding sexuality must be allowed and cannot be a sign of illness (except for pedophiles and people who sex animals–though we treat the former like they are pure evil instead of ill). Also, we are told that we are who we choose to be (which is partly true), but we are told we can take it to an extreme and define ourselves right down to our gender. That’s problematic, to say the least. As ridiculous as I may find it, they are simply doing as our culture has deemed acceptable.

        • TheodoreSeeber

          One of the reasons I have problems trusting neurotypicals- is that they fail to think.

    • Imp the Vladaler

      “I live in the Bay Area and know a fair number of lesbian parents (some adopted, some had kids naturally).”

      Unless they conceived by having intercourse with a man (and I suppose the number who have is greater than zero), no they didn’t.

  • bob

    While I’m skeptical of the parents’ decision because it seems based on very little science, I’m not seeing evidence of narcissism on the parents’ behalf. Poor judgment, sure, but narcissism? There’s obviously no evidence of brainwashing. That’s straight our of left field.

    In any case, Mark, it seems like your general point here is that gay people are more narcissistic than straight people. Or am I missing something?

    I think most people who want kids want them because of the basic human urge to nurture and raise a child. This is true with most people, gay or straight. Are you saying that because gays can’t produce children the old-fashioned way, their desire to have them anyway is evidence of narcissism? Or what?

    I really am not getting your point about gay adoption being “about chronic narcissists using children to accessorize their narcissism.”

    • Imp the Vladaler

      In any case, Mark, it seems like your general point here is that gay people are more narcissistic than straight people. Or am I missing
      something?

      I can’t speak for our host, but I believe the standard response here is that same-sex attraction is a cross to bear, that indulging it is sinful, and that indulging any sin instead of bearing it humbly involves selfishness, and therefore narcissism.

      • bob

        “Indulging the sin instead of bearing it humbly”?

        Explain how raising children is indulging a sin, if you would be so kind.

        • Imp the Vladaler

          Explain where I mentioned a word about raising children, if you would be so kind.

          • bob

            Forgive me if I mistook your meaning. You said: indulging any sin instead of bearing it humbly involves selfishness, and therefore narcissism. I take it, then, that you just mean the fact that they’re living in an openly gay relationship, which is evidence of narcissism?
            If so, fair enough, but this post is about gay ADOPTION specifically. So what I’m asking is: what is the connection between gay ADOPTION and narcissism?

            • Imp the Vladaler

              The reasoning as I understand it (without adopting it) is:

              (1) Homosexuals who don’t conform their attraction to the Catechism are narcissistic

              (2) Reassigning your child’s sex/gender is narcissistic;

              Therefore

              (3) Active homosexuals are likely to reassign their children’s sex/gender.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1235643522 Faith Roberts

      I think Mark’s understanding of same sex attraction is that it is in itself a form of narcissism, a disordered way of relating sexualiy to those who are like you and not those who would complement you in a union. But I do think Mark is often too harsh in his wording and paints with a very uncharitable and broad brush. However sinful these women may be in living out a life that is in defiance of God’s revelation and natural law, they probably do not understand it as sin. And while many baby boomers seem to approach having children as consumers purchasing products so they can attain ‘fulfillment’ both heterosexual and homosexual couples can be guilty of this. It could also just be the desire to parent in spite of who they are attracted to. In this culture where sex and procreating have been separated by our contraceptive attitude, our exploitative media and our belief that it is ok to use science to do whatever we want because that’s all that matters, these women are just living the way they’ve been formed by all these influences. I just read a really interesting book called Secrets of an Unlikely Convert by a lesbian woman who changed her life after she realized she did believe in Jesus. Very intelligent, profound and eye opening book. I highly recommend it. One thing it taught me is that it is wrong to lash out with scathing insults. It only alienates. It is not doing Christ’s work. I do feel very sorry for the boy though because I truly don’t think kids that young should be forced to identify as one gender or another. I think that is our sick, overly sexualized society pushing that on them. I think it confuses them. Children are really open to suggestion. I mean they can’t even testify in court because they are so vulnerable to it. Sexual development is very complex and you can naturally go through a period where you haven’t quite sorted it out. I think the science for this is very sketchy and very politicized. My prayers go out to that boy.

  • Pavel Chichikov

    Stories like this give me the creeps. Next on the agenda is genetic intervention, so people can grow gills and really sleep with the fishes.

    The ancient Hebrews thought things should stay in the categories they belonged in, and an interpretation of Deuteronomy is that this sense of proper categories is behind many of the instructions and proscriptions in that book.

  • zai

    Why this does not seem off to people in the medical profession is beyond me. Feeling as though you were in the wrong body is a clear sign that something is not connected correctly. Let’s say it was not gender but species…we would immediately say that it is an illness and would not attempt to use various methods to change them into the species they feel they are supposed to be (yes, I know this is–currently–completely impossible, but who knows how it will be in the far future). Something is wrong (which is implied in the disorder part of the name), but I do not know that indulging in something that is obviously not physically true (right down to your DNA) is the right method. I have a friend who recently transitioned and it feels odd. He, however, seems happier; but, I still am not sure if it is okay.

    That said, the problem is very real and very difficult to deal with. How do you deal will that? I think we need to truly spend time figuring that out.

  • kenofken

    These parents followed the best medical advice they had and opted for the best treatment available for a real, and devastating medical condition. Neither Mark nor myself nor anyone here had to walk in their shoes, and the Church’s science on transgender disorder is beyond medieval. It is neolithic. “There’s no room in our doctrine for it, therefore it cannot exist.” It is no different than attributing schizophrenia or cancer to a moral failing of the victim and demanding that they just suck it up and will themselves right.

    The clear inference that gay people generally want for the purpose of mutilating children in the name of their “lifestyle” or politics is truly no more dignified or rooted in the Gospels than blood libel of the Jews. It is truly that vile. It amazes me sometimes that Mark can write a column condemning, for example, eugenics, and then turn around and pen something that lays the same foundation on which eugenicists build upon.

    The premise of this post and much else he writes about gays is that they are malign, degenerate as a class. Corrupters and destroyers of youth. The worm in the apple of virtuous society. There is sometimes the disclaimer that “I don’t mean ALL gay people, just the “militant activists”, but the implication is that there is master gay agenda afoot, and it’s aimed at the heart of good people everywhere. Once you go down that road, you have no basis for righteous anger at eugenecists. If you posit that a class of people is morally inferior, the eugenecist simply follows with the logical question of what to do about them.

    • Michaelus

      If there is an inescapable biological cause for desiring to sodomize your friends then you are right – wicked people will begin to kill off their “gay” children just like they kill off girls in India and China, But of course there is no such cause. The desire to sodomize people is a desire – not a physical characteristic.

      • kenofken

        And this is why your cause is losing ground every day in every civilized nation on Earth. Once the mask comes off and people speak from their heart, it’s revealed to be just another hate movement.

        • http://www.likelierthings.com/ Jon W

          No. Every “civilized” nation on earth is going to give over its members to random biological forces which will then be manipulated by those wishing to sell them stuff. The population will have no reason and no ability to resist this manipulation, and after a century of unhappiness and destruction, they’ll realize this isn’t such a brave new world after all.

          • kenofken

            I don’t see a lot of people pulling up stakes to seek a fresh start in the Middle East or Russia or any of the other homophobic societies of the world. For all our problems, the West still has a lot of takers.

            • http://www.likelierthings.com/ Jon W

              There are still plenty of good reasons to live in the West that have nothing to do with our sexual stupidity and plenty of parallel reasons for not living in the countries you mention. The question is whether your attitudes and philosophies are going to destroy what the West has accomplished. Greedy fools and gangsters destroyed organized labor, which once enabled a thriving working class in this country but which now, because of people’s disgust, is so politically weak it can’t do anything about this widening gap between rich and poor in our country. (There are, of course, other factors, but this is one.)

              This kind of sexual absolutism and subsequent blaming of any downside on society’s inability to celebrate stupid or short-sided choices is like the greediness of people who see freedom as nothing more than an opportunity to take whatever lies within their grasp.

    • http://www.likelierthings.com/ Jon W

      the best medical advice they had and opted for the best treatment available for a real, and devastating medical condition

      This is ludicrous, kenofken. “Medical condition”? “Medical advice”? How on earth can so much chutzpa fit into one degree? As though this poor kid’s sex was a bacterium we could isolate and kill off with penicillin. Gender identity is a combination of deep biological forces we’re only beginning to have any idea about and complex social interactions almost completely ignored by our individualist culture. Pretending this is simple enough to be “fixed” by blasting a child with various hormones and cutting away outer portions of his anatomy is fantastically moronic. Have the last 200 years of industrial destruction of the environment taught us nothing? Nature is incredibly complex, and we who go in changing things willy-nilly invite our own destruction.

      • kenofken

        The medical profession doesn’t know everything about these complex conditions, nor are its treatments unimprovable. They do have data and track records to be able to show that transgender and certain intersex patients have far better outcomes with surgical and hormone transition than those who don’t.

        What do you guys bring to the debate in terms of real data? Exactly nothing, as usual. A dogma rooted in ignorance and hermetically sealed against any new facts or information which might call it into question. Even though real data shows that people living with untreated gender dysphoria have huge rates of suicide and depression and drug abuse, tough.

        “We just know” that re-assignment surgery isn’t appropriate. Then you get all huffy when parents opt for real medical advice rather than gambling their kid’s lives on your nonsense. The cherry on that putrid sundae is that gay parents who make this heart-wrenching choice are not merely mistaken. They’re evil, and portents of what queers really have in mind for all children.

        • http://www.likelierthings.com/ Jon W

          You sound like an television announcer from the 1950s: “Better living through chemistry.” I would be very interested in seeing data about all this, but frankly, you’re not going to be convinced by any data at all, and neither will I. Everyone in complex arguments always has ways of explaining away “data”. If active homosexuals register high in “unhappiness”, well that’s because of the society’s inability to accept them and approve of their way of life, not because there’s anything wrong with it per se. If active homosexuals register high in “happiness”, well that’s because their standards of happiness come from an extremely shallow and inhuman culture.

          I guess we’re going to get to see how this all plays out. Your side seems to be winning at the moment, because you don’t have any coherent philosophy other than “do what you feel”, but it will not mean happiness for the human race.

  • Evan

    I suppose now is not the time to share this. After all, it’s every man’s right to have babies if he wants them.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFBOQzSk14c

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Patrick-J-Loveless/100000216363826 Patrick J Loveless

    If I may, was or wasn’t this boy’s BODY – body – perfectly healthy?

    If so, is it not by default the MIND – mind – that is ill, if the body is not the cause of illness? A perfectly healthy body, male or female, cannot be the cause of an illness because it is, well, healthy.

    Ergo, gender identity disorder must be a mental disorder, not a bodily one.

  • ModerateMom17

    Didn’t Paul Ryan just give gay adoption his stamp of approval? Maybe he should be informed of this case.

  • ladycygnus

    I find it sadly ironic that those who scream loudest about not forcing “gender stereotypes” onto children are more than willing to do so when it fits their ideology.

    “Gender is fluid, you should give little boys dolls to play with so they aren’t bound by societies impression of what a boy should act like.”
    ~ vs ~

    “Tommy is a “girl” because “she” likes to play with dolls and dress in pink.”

    (not actual quotes – but could very well be)

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Patrick-J-Loveless/100000216363826 Patrick J Loveless

    When you say the treatment “works”, what do you mean by “works”? Do you mean the treatment “makes them happy”?
    I’m not saying happiness is evil. Not at all.

    But it is evil to harm the body, to sicken it, if it need not be so. I do not believe for a second that psychotherapy could not help a person to overcome this delusion that they are the “wrong sex” and still be happy.


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