The Doom of the Obama Worshipper…

…is to come to the place where Sarah Palin is obviously smarter than Obama.

Why on *earth* are we about to arm Al-Quaeda, a pack of butchers who just slaughtered a 15 year old boy in front of his parents for “heresy”? Why is this our fight?

  • Elmwood

    I’m glad that Mark has commented on this considering Emeritus Pope Benedict has said arming this conflict would be a “grave sin”.

    I’m surprised of the silence from our church concerning this.

    • Rachel

      sadly, I’m not surprised. Many church leaders are fine with expanding the war on “terror”. Its always a “prudential” judgement to them. Just look at how long its taken for there to be any discussion about drones within the Church? I’m only now starting to see articles from Catholic theologians, etc on the issue instead of getting on it last year during the election but of course, many Church leaders were only concerned with the HHS mandate and abortion. Again, those are serious issues but come on….look what our country is doing in our name. This is why we as Catholics and pro lifers need to have a more comprehensive/holistic scope instead of only voting/concentrating on one issue…the same issue….over and over and over and over again……..

      • Imp the Vladaler

        Many church leaders are fine with expanding the war on “terror”.

        Which “church leaders” would these be?

        • Rachel

          By their silence. I’m referring primarily to many US bishops. The only time I saw most of them actually speaking out against anything unjust was last year when news came out about the HHS mandate. It got so bad that some of them went very far into saying that we had a duty to vote for Romney due to it. My own bishop kept emphasizing that it was a matter of religious freedom, etc. What I’m saying is that the bishops don’t speak up until its actually something that effects them personally. Sure, we have our usual ones who speak out against abortion, etc but hardly ANY have spoken out against our encroaching police state, drone attacks, or our behavior in the Middle East. Our wars have cost many people their lives, including many Christians. It has made an already dangerous/violent place worse. And now, we are going to arm the Syrian “rebels”? I want to see more action from out bishops. When it comes to matters of war, etc yes..our bishops are largely silent.

          • Imp the Vladaler

            Is this what you mean by “silence”:

            http://ncronline.org/blogs/ncr-today/key-bishop-questions-us-drone-warfare-says-indiscriminate

            It’s not the bishops’ fault that you aren’t keeping up with the news.

            And “silence” equates to being “fine with expanding the war on ‘terror’”? Question for you: how many times have you heard your bishop condemn arson? Does that mean he’s fine with arson?

            • Rachel

              Yes, I saw that article. Look at the date, they are just NOW talking about it after a YEAR of this being known. When the story first broke out about our drone use, LAST YEAR I was asking where were the bishops, why weren’t they saying anything? I scoured and looked for any information from our bishops but no, they were only talking about the HHS mandate all the time. Its only NOW that they are talking about it. This is what I’m saying. They drag their feet and don’t really discuss these issues much.

              • Imp the Vladaler

                My goodness, is anything the bishops do ever good enough for you? They’re not loud enough, they’re not echoing the Pope enough, they’re not fast enough with their press releases.

                You do realize that the bishops don’t exist to say “how high” when you say “jump,” right?

                • Rachel

                  I don’t know what your beef is but you do realize we have a crisis in leadership, especially among our bishops in this country, right? We do need them to speak up more and not just on sex issues ALL THE TIME

                  • Imp the Vladaler

                    My beef stems from the fact that you’re long on allegations and short on facts to support these allegations that don’t rely on anecdotal evidence or unfalsifiable hypotheses. And by that I mean that allegations of “silence” and not moving fast enough can always be made. A bishop always could give another homily. He always could have spoken yesterday rather than today.

                    • Rachel

                      and my problem is that you’ve yet to show when they have actually shown leadership. You have only shown links to Pope Francis and the NCR article. How about more links to show them actually speaking out?

                    • Imp the Vladaler

                      Number of links provided by me: 2
                      Number of links provided by you: 0

                      Stop this. Just stop.

              • wlinden

                So we’re back to “Not Speaking Out”. Didn’t Mark have a post or three on how there can be no defense to accusations of “Not speaking out”, because it can always be changed to “Not speaking out ENOUGH:”?
                You have, of course, a comprehensive record of everything any bishop has said or written, so you can pronounce on exactly what they have NOT said on every topic?

    • Imp the Vladaler

      What “silence from our church”? Here’s Francis two weeks ago:

      http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/francesco/speeches/2013/june/documents/papa-francesco_20130605_corunum-siria_en.html

      This stuff isn’t hard to find.

      • Rachel

        Pope Francis, Pope Benedict XVI, even Pope John Paul II all spoke out against the wars, etc but hardly anyone listened, least of all our bishops.

        • Imp the Vladaler

          Would you be so kind as to name one bishop who didn’t listen – whatever that means – to the Holy Father on the subject of the wars, and demonstrate his failure to listen with a link?

          • Rachel

            They didn’t listen. I hardly heard a word about it in the Catholic press in the lead up to the Iraq war except for the Wanderer. In fact, I heard more about prudential judgement, etc from our bishops and others in the Catholic press. Just look at the whole argument on the use of torture that Mark Shea discussed time and time again. Look at any of the Catholic media, its always the same three topics (I listen to EWTN and read the NC register, etc): abortion, homosexuality, and the HHS mandate. I hardly heard and still don’t hear much about the other abuses going on. During the election, when I would bring up the issue about drones, the wars, etc all I would get is that if I didn’t vote for Romney I would be giving my vote for Obama. My own pastor would only speak out against the HHS mandate/abortion, etc. My bishop did. My previous bishops were completely silent on these issues. I know they weren’t the only ones too.

            • Imp the Vladaler

              I asked you to demonstrate this supposed failure to listen. You gave me vagueness and personal anecdotes, as well as a bunch of allegations that you haven’t supported with anything other than your memory.

              It might be time for you to re-read Matthew 7:3 before you next attempt to correct the bishops for not listening, silence, not speaking loudly enough for you, not speaking often enough for you, not moving fast enough for you, not prioritizing issues in the way that you prefer, or otherwise conducting themselves in ways that aren’t congruent with your preferences.

              • Rachel

                Since you know what the bishops have said, then why don’t you actually show some links? You haven’t done anything like that other than show what the Holy Father has said (I knew about that already) and the very recent article in the NC register. You can’t tell me that the bishops have shown good leadership in this country. They are largely silent. Look at the sex abuse crisis. It had to take being publicly embarrassed to do anything. They drag their feet. Many of them have cozied up to politicians (Dolan, Mccarick, Wurel). I want them actually speaking out as bishops and apostles. If it won’t come from the top, it will be more difficult to come from the bottom too. They aren’t correcting very often at all. Remember that even Pope Francis is admonishing many bishops/priests of caring about their careers more than speaking out on uncomfortable subjects, including war/torture/ etc.

                • Imp the Vladaler

                  I posted a link below that demonstrates exactly what you’re looking for. I know that you saw it, because you replied to my post. And you’ve gone from allegations that the bishops were “silent” to allegations that they were “largely silent.” It’s not fair to move the goalposts.

                  Because of this, I’m having trouble believing that you’re discussing this matter in good faith. Enjoy the rest of your day.

                  • Rachel

                    That link (which I had posted on my FB page a couple of days ago) is the first time I’ve seen anything on the issue in the Catholic press. What I’m talking about (and this is why its difficult to show you links because it would require more extensive research) is the general silence on issues not related to abortion/homosexuality/HHS/religious freedom. EWTN, NCR, and other Catholic presses were and still continue to be largely silent and many of are bishops are also largely silent. Again, its difficult to show links to this when there isn’t very many articles/reports to show them speaking out on the issues. Instead, I can offer you many links and evidence to show the abundance of focus on these other three issues. I’m not the only one that has seen this pattern. You want links but what I’m discussing are patterns which are more difficult to show in a combox because of the extensive amount of research that it would require. I know I sound vague to you but I do mean this in good faith. It is an issue that has been on my heart for a long time. Pope John Paul II, Benedict XVI, and Pope Francis all have discussed these issues but its only with the election of Pope Francis that I’m seeing other issues besides abortion/homosexuality/HHS mandate actually being discussed. Its a refreshing change but I wish this was done sooner. What I’m saying is that we need to be more pro-active instead of reactive (after a year). Does that make more sense?

                • Marthe Lépine

                  Rachel
                  claims: “Remember that even Pope Francis is admonishing many bishops/priests of caring about their careers more than speaking out on uncomfortable subjects, including war/torture/ etc.”
                  That is not what the Pope said, you are putting words in his mouth to support your opinion. In http://catholicregister.org/search?q=Careerism, it is said that “Pope Francis decried a plague of careerism among priests andurged them to renounce their personal ambitions for service to the church”. and he did not say anything about speaking out on such subjectsas war, torture etc.

                  • Rachel

                    Pope Francis is urging us to be in solidarity with the poor and speak out against violence which would I think include drones, etc. Part of being a careerist bishop is cozing up to politicians instead of being true shepherds. As for as my “opinion” I’m basing it on Catholic teaching which means standing up for peace and justice, not only on the sex issues but also issues of war, the poor, etc which Pope Francis has been talking about in many of his homilies. I was not attempting to give an actual quote. Instead I was pointing out that these are themes of his and we should take heed to listen to him.

            • Elmwood

              Rachel, I’m glad you’ve noticed this too. I thought I was the only one. It’s like our military gets a free pass from the conservative catholic press.

          • Elmwood

            There have been USCCB statements in support of the Holy Father concerning Syria however nobody seems to be listening or aware of what the church is saying about war. People consider this kind of stuff unimportant or something that amounts to a nice sentiment but not something with any teeth in it, like all of catholic social teaching. As if Catholics should make up their own mind on these issues and not take seriously what Holy Father is asking.

    • chezami

      Opposition to abortion taketh away the sins of the world. Everything else is “prudential judgement”–a Latinate phrase meaning “do whatever you feel like and blow off the Church’s guidance if it contradicts your politics.”

  • Brennan

    She’s always been smarter than Obama (and she even knows when life begins).

  • Andy

    Although I agree with Palin (a first for me) Obama is responding to the rest of the ruling class who are crying for another war to prove American superiority and to remove any pretense at having to be responsible to the ruled. In war we can’t question the leaders – no matter what party. We have to protect ourselves and you know the rest.

    I cannot for the life of em imagine why would arm rebels in the Middle East – it worked so well in the Afghan area didn’t it? Tie this to the fact that even if the church did, as Elmwood says, did say something how many of the com-box warriors would say that it is a prudential statement? Look at how John Paul was ignored at the start of Iraq, see how Benedict is ignored now. We know that they can only comment on the evils of abortion and contraception – everything else has been prudential.

  • Claire

    She said “until we have a Commander in Chief who knows what he’s doing”, we should stay out of Syria. I read that as “as soon as a Republican is in office, then bombs away”.

    • Rachel

      yep, she doesn’t mind bombing more places in the Middle East, as long as its a republican in office.

      • wlinden

        Like “liberals’ don’t mind as long as it’s a Democrat in office.

  • brnicolosi

    It’s not our fight. Obama is pulling a page from the Clinton playbook. “Let’s bomb Serbia to distract from the Lewinsky scandal.” Obama, neck-deep in scandals, needs to change the channel. So far, it’s working.

  • Mark S. (not for Shea)

    Since the end of WW II, Both Democrats and Republicans approach foreign policy and domestic politics under the assumption that “the enemy of my enemy is my friend,” which is blatantly stupid. The historic precent for the falsehood of that doctrine is enormous.


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