The Gestapo and the Stasi Taught Germans a Hard Lesson

that we Americans are about to learn.

I love my country. But I only fear my government and despise our Ruling Class, who I pray for and forgive, but do not honor in the slightest. I honor their office insofar as it still participates in ordering society for the common good. But there is and always has been a distinction between Caesar and Nero. Our Ruling Class look more and more like the paranoid and lawless Nero every day. The Germans (and the rest of the world) have good reason to regard our nation as a threat.

  • Marthe Lépine

    I tried to read the linked article, but could not, because I am definitely not interested to subscribe to anything, paid or not, that will force me to accept to receive all kinds of other material in order to gain access to the material I want to read. It is something about being able to make my own choices of reading material, as well as avoiding to send my personal info to people who are not really entitled to it. Sorry, but I had to point it out to you.

    • Robert

      ditto

      • Mark S. (not for Shea)

        Thritto.

    • tom b

      me too

      • Stephen

        I opened it right up. ???

  • wlinden

    The Germans, like the Bourbons, have neither learned nor forgotten anything.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Office_for_the_Protection_of_the_Constitution

    “,,,he BfV uses all kinds of surveillance technology and infiltration…”

  • vox borealis

    Mark Shea, I appreciate your cautioning about the US government, but you really need to stop using the Germans as an example of people who’ve learned their lessons from past mistakes with the surveillance state. I’ve posted before, I lived in Germany for over a year recently, and let me tell you, the Germans love them an all powerful state, so long as the right sort of political elite is in charge. When I was there. the police used drones to monitor people, all people—citizens and residents—must register their address with the authorities, and without such “papers” you can’t get any public or private service, they regularly farm kids out to state run daycares at age 3, homeschooling of any kind is *illegal*, they decry the crimes of the Nazis against the Jews all the while passing anti-Muslim laws, all citizens must register their religious confession with the State, various religions (e.g. Mormonism) are deemed “cults” and subject to strict regulation. I could go on.

    They have never really learned.

    • Resident

      I don’t know which Germany you are talking about but it is so different from the one I see outside my window.

      “the police used drones to monitor people” – what are you talking about?

      “all people—citizens and residents—must register their address with the authorities, and without such “papers” you can’t get any public or private service” – sure but what’s so terrible about it? It certainly is not akin to Gestapo or Stasi measures unless you subscribe to a anarchist-paranoid (basically the same thing) wordlview.

      “they regularly farm kids out to state run daycares at age 3″

      Who is they? Sure, most children go to kindergarden at that age but if anyone “farms them out” it is the parents. Oh, and kindergarden is not state-run, quite often it is run by churches.

      “homeschooling of any kind is *illegal*”

      No, children have to go to schools when they turn six but these aren’t necessarily state-schools.

      “they decry the crimes of the Nazis against the Jews all the while passing anti-Muslim laws”

      From what follows you don’t seem to have any idea about these crimes if you can’t see the difference between systematic extermination and what you call “anti-Muslim laws”. BTW, what anti-Muslim laws are you talking about. The only recent law affecting Muslims I can think of is one that kept circumcision legal after a controversial court case.

      “all citizens must register their religious confession with the State”

      That’s a lie. You only must register your religion if your particular church body is a “corporation under public law” and decides to levy church tax on its members. That’s the Catholic Church, the mainstream Protestant Churches, Jewish communities.

      “various religions (e.g.
      Mormonism) are deemed “cults” and subject to strict regulation.”

      Rubbish! There is no such regulation!

      “I could go on.”

      Telling tales never stops.

      • jaybird1951

        No, children have to go to schools when they turn six but these aren’t necessarily state-schools.

        “they decry the crimes of the Nazis against the Jews all the while passing anti-Muslim laws”

        You didn’t address the comment about home schooling. I lived in Germany for 12 years and know there are private schools in the country but homeschooling is forbidden by law. Several families have been threatened with removal of their children and one has taken refuge in this country and requested asylum. As for sects, Scientology is the only one I know of where the German government has either threatened or instituted a ban. Mormonism has not been though.

        • wlinden

          The NYT reported that the secret police “For the Protection of the Constitution” had declared “a state of investigation against” (not “of”) Scientology. That does not sound like they have learned anything from the past.

          • Resident

            The Bundesverfassungsschutz is not a secret police. There merely looking into groups – they don’t do anything about them but regularly issuing a report on a whole lot of groups with anti-constitutional aims, including political extremists (left or right), islamists, terrorists etc.

            It means exactly that we have learned from the past and will not close our eyes to such groups as we did in the 1920s.

        • Resident

          “know there are private schools in the country but
          homeschooling is forbidden by law.”

          There is no law against teaching your children but there is a legal requirement to send your kids to school. I give you that you could call that a ban on homeschooling. I just don’t see the big deal. Children are entitled to an education.

          “Scientology is the only one I know of where the German government has either threatened or instituted a ban.”

          Well, you are utterly misinformed then. Scientology is not banned in Germany (though some people have called for that) – the body “Church of Scientology” is just not recognized as a religious community or as non-profit but as a profit-oriented enterprise (which it certainly is). Just because the CoS bribed the IRS to be recognised doesn’t mean that other governments have to follow this. BUt the CoS is perfectly free to do what it does.

          “Mormonism has not been though.”

          Exactly!

          • Resident

            It miswrote one word in my comment. Instead of “bribed” it should read “blackmailed”.

  • Loretta

    Mark, nothing the first poster said has changed. The only way we can access this page you linked us to is to allow a cookie, a subscription, and eight random articles a month. That involves too much of a surrender of my own political independence and computer integrity to permit. Or was that the very irony you intended?


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