Evangelicals are coming out for Romney

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I’ve often gotten the question from other Evangelical Christians about Mormon faith, whether it’s a cult, whether or not they should feel okay about voting for a Mormon. I have had two answers:

First, Mormonism is not a cult in my view. It has cult-like qualities, but so does American Evangelicalism (or Roman Catholicism for that matter). However, I do not think that Mormonism is part of Christianity. Mormonism is its own religion with it’s own traditions, theology, and teaching that are separate and distinct from Christianity. The main kicker for me comes down to their view of the Bible. The best way I can describe it to say that The Book of Mormon is to the Bible what the Koran is to the Torah (the first five books of the OT). When you compare Christianity and Mormonism there are just too many differences that matter: the Trinity, divinity of Jesus, status of the Bible, etc.  -Mormonism is not part of the Christian faith.

Second, I don’t see any reason that a Christian couldn’t vote for a Mormon based on their religious beliefs. I think there are many reasons our faith would compel us not to vote for Mitt Romney, as there are many reasons our faith would compel us not to vote for Barack Obama, but I wouldn’t vote against Mitt based on his Mormon faith.

That being said, I do have two persistent concerns with the candidate Romney’s faith. These are concerns not because he’s a Mormon, but because he’s a Mormon running for president. The two concerns are 1) Mormon soteriology and women, which I hope to write about once I get a chance to do more reading. 2) Mormon theology and race.

The second issue is the focus of yesterday’s article by Andrew Sullivan at The Daily Beast which articulates a legitimate concern. Sullivan notes that blacks were never permitted to be a full participant in the church until 1970. Mormons revised their teaching, which is a really good thing. But it troubles many that Romney never opposed the churches teaching on race prior to that change.

There is no doubt that evangelicals are squarely behind Romney. The L.A. Times has a story out this morning about Evangelical support for Mitt Romney in which it is noted that evangelical support is peculiar given that there is not a Protestant Christian on the GOP ballot. There was a time when this would have bothered people. In fact, it was not long ago:

“When 150 self-identified evangelical leaders met in Texas in January to decide on a candidate to support in the Republican primaries, Romney — then the front-runner in the campaign — got four votes, according to an evangelical advisor, Mark DeMoss, who cast one of the votes himself.

There are fewer concerns about evangelical support today, even with Romney’s selection of a Roman Catholic, Rep. Paul D. Ryan, as his running mate.

“It’s our belief that the great irony of this election will be [that] you’ll have the first ticket without a Protestant on it, and that ticket will get the highest support by evangelical voters of any ticket in history,” said Gary Marx, executive director of the conservative Faith and Freedom Coalition. “That’s going to be the great irony — supporting a Mormon-Catholic ticket at record levels, and I think that’s already showing up in the polling data.””

The party line for evangelicals has been that they are urging people to vote for the candidate who shares their values, an obvious tip of the hat to Romney’s stance on abortion and gay marriage. Many Christians have pointed out that caring for the poor and seeing that wealth doesn’t concentrate in the hands of a few rich while the poor suffer should be considered Christian values as well. This focus on “shares our values” is a purposeful strategy that seems to be working.

“A vast effort has gone into selling Romney to conservative evangelicals, led in part by Marx and his boss, Faith and Freedom founder Ralph Reed, and by such figures as Jim Daly, president of Focus on the Family, and DeMoss, an evangelical publicist who has served as an unofficial liaison between Romney and the evangelical community since before the 2008 presidential campaign.

“A number of us have been trying to shift the conversation from theology to values,” DeMoss said. “I’m more interested in a candidate who shares my values than if he or she shares my theology. And indeed, as an evangelical and a conservative, I have more in common with many Mormons than I would with a liberal Southern Baptist.”

About Tim Suttle

Tim Suttle is a pastor, writer, and musician. He is the author of several books: Shrink: Faithful Ministry in a Church Growth Culture (Zondervan 2014), Public Jesus (The House Studio, 2012), and An Evangelical Social Gospel? (Cascade Books, 2011). Tim's work has been featured at The Huffington Post, The Washington Post, Sojourners, and other magazines and journals. Tim is also the founder and front-man of the popular Christian band Satellite Soul, with whom he toured for nearly a decade. He has planted three successful churches over the past 13 years and is the Senior Pastor of Redemption Church in Olathe, Kan. Tim's blog, Paperback Theology, is hosted at Patheos.

  • Claude

    What is Mitt Romney’s position on abortion? One day he’s pro-choice and the next day he’s not. (He’s certainly hostile to gay marriage.) Is it behind Curtain #3?

    • BabyRaptor

      According to Ryan, the Romney administration “respects all views” but Roe V Wade is going in the trash.

      In other words, more lies. You don’t respect someone’s view if you’re going to take their choice to live by that view away. And frankly, Mittens and Ryan are the last people that should be making decisions about how women handle their bodies.

      On topic: I was never going to vote for Romney from Day 1, but the fact that Evangelicals are flocking to him just solidifies my opinion even more. People who loudly brandish that label tend to be the exact opposite of what I want.

      • Jerry Hancock

        Oh, so BabyRaptor… you say Mitt and Ryan should not be able to make decisions about how a woman handles her body? If they were both pro-abortion instead of being pro-life, I suppose you would say: Right On! It’s not the person or the gender of the person who is running for office that you are against at making those sorts of decisions, but it’s their position on what you believe is right that really matters… right?

        So if half the voting women in this country say it’s wrong to have an abortion, is it really Mittens and Ryan who you are against? You are against the idea of being Pro-life… and anybody who says abortion is wrong… not just Mittens and Ryan.

        Who else do you think evangelicals have to flock to… Barack Obama? I don’t think so! They’ve been slow to come around, and they rejected him four years ago and took Huckabee instead, who couldn’t win against McCain. So Christians literally voted for Obama by default: Because of their religious bigotry, the evangelicals flocked to the Arkansas governor who was an ex Baptist pastor. I’m so glad he didn’t run again this time! He is much less qualified than the current Mormon nominee. I just want the guy in there who will do the best job. You know the old saying: Anybody but Obama! However not just anybody who can beat Obama… and not just anybody can turn this economy around either. I think Mitt can do it!

        Mittens and Ryan each have a closer position to that of Christians regarding abortion than the alternative: Obama! Why would anybody want to vote for a man who believes in murder? Obama believes in partial birth abortion, which is infanticide!

        “Obama was in charge of the Democrat Party in 2008, and there’s been no scuttlebutt whatsoever about any change that might include an exception for children who are already partially born and very much alive — but still aborted. The practice known as partial-birth abortion is infanticide — nothing more, nothing less. It’s a horrifying procedure… that over two-thirds of Americans believe should be illegal.” Maybe Romney can stop this! Wouldn’t that be a good thing baby? http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/08/23/President-Infanticide-Dem-Plank-Partial-Birth

    • Jerry Hancock

      Mitt Romney has been against abortion for many years now. He has not been one way one day and another way the next as you say. In fact he has not changed his position since he became anti abortion so many years ago? So why are you spreading this propaganda? Its great that he has changed, and he did change his position while he was a Governor. Sounds like you might be listening to the Obama voices. The more concerning problem is the fact that tax payer dollars go to fund abortion under Obama’s position on it. He is all for abortion, even in the final stages of pregnancy. Be happy you have a candidate in Mitt Romney who has changed his mind on abortion almost a decade ago. A vote for Obama is a vote for more abortion. A vote for Romney will be a vote to deter it. Another reason to vote for Romney is his skill in finance and ability to turn this economy around. I’m not a Mormon, and would never be one. However if I had a business and was going to hire one person out of the ten applicants standing in front of me, and the best one for the job happened to be head and shoulders above the rest, but he was a Mormon… you can be sure I would hire the Mormon: Even if Christian brothers from my own denomination were in the line up. We should be impartial to religion in hiring as well as in voting for the best qualified guy for president.

      • Claude

        You’re right. Romney doesn’t change his mind from day to day. More like from morning to noon. But let’s backtrack.

        When Romney was governor of Massachusetts he was pro-choice.

        When Romney started running for president as a Republican (what seems like an eternity ago) he tacked further and further to the right to the point where during the Republican primaries Romney assured the base that he was anti-abortion, that he would appoint Supreme Court justices who would overturn Roe v. Wade, that he would eliminate funding for Planned Parenthood, etc. You may recall that the other candidates gave him a him a lot of flak over his pro-choice past.

        Fast forward to October. Women have flocked to Obama. Romney needs to soften his party’s retrograde and misogynistic image. What to do? Romney tells the Des Moines Register that “There’s no legislation with regards to abortion that I’m familiar with that would become part of my agenda.” Come again?!! Some hours later, his campaign backtracked, informing the Associated Press that “Mitt Romney is proudly pro-life, and he will be a pro-life president.”

        Anyone who watched the innumerable Republican primary debates and has followed the news throughout the year would not be surprised. By this time Romney’s jaw-dropping flip-flopping is legendary.

        You wrote: “The more concerning problem is the fact that tax payer dollars go to fund abortion under Obama’s position on it.” That is not true. You are misinformed.

        Romney has no innovative solution to change the economy. He is selling warmed-over supply-side economics that have proved a failure in the past. Hence the need to wage culture war. The GOP has nothing else.

        • Jerry Hancock

          The Jury Is Still Out As To Whether The Government Funds Abortion or Not…

          Planned Parenthood’s Taxpayer Funding Subsidizes Its Abortions

          Regardless of whether Planned Parenthood violates the spirit or the letter of the law by its promotion of abortion as a means of planning a family, the taxpayer dollars it receives are subsidizing its abortion business.
          Abby Johnson, former director of a Planned Parenthood clinic in Bryan, Texas, has said, “As clinic director, I saw how money received by Planned Parenthood affiliate clinics all went into one pot at the end of the day – it isn’t divvied up and directed to specific services…
          Ms. Johnson’s account, that Planned Parenthood provides no meaningful separation of funds to ensure tax dollars do not subsidize its abortion business, is supported by the Commissioner of the Indiana State Department of Health’s analysis of Planned Parenthood’s commingling of funds with regards to Medicaid. In the ongoing case challenging Indiana’s abortion-funding restriction, the Commissioner notes that “[Planned Parenthood of Indiana]’s audited financial statements for 2009 and 2010 give rise to a reasonable inference that it commingles Medicaid reimbursements with other revenues it receives…

          Planned Parenthood Gulf Coast (PPGC) (an affiliate operating 10 clinics in Texas and 2 in Louisiana) has been accused of corporate-wide fraudulent billing practices by Ms. Karen Reynolds, a “Health Center Assistant” for nearly a decade at Planned Parenthood’s Lufkin, Texas clinic.[ix]
          Among her claims, Ms. Reynolds alleges that PPGC “trained its employees to create false and misleading patient chart entries” in order to support reimbursements for services which were not permitted under the Texas Women’s Health Program (WHP) and Medicaid, including “obtaining payment for abortion-related services.”… Thus, PPGC would improperly charge the government – and, ultimately, American taxpayers – for abortion-related services…
          Ms. Thayer’s complaint explains how Planned Parenthood’s “fragmentation” billing practice extended beyond the post-abortion visit.
          [I]n a practice commonly referred to as “fragmentation,” Defendant Planned Parenthood of the Heartland knowingly and intentionally separated out charges for services and products rendered in connection with such abortions, including, without limitation, office visits, ultrasounds, Rh factor tests, lab work, general counseling, and abortion aftercare, and submitted such separate “fragmented” charges as claims for Title XIX-Medicaid reimbursement to Iowa Medicaid Enterprise and/or Iowa Family Planning Network….
          Charging the taxpayer for these services and products effectively subsidizes abortion.”
          http://www.lifenews.com/2012/10/28/planned-parenthoods-taxpayer-funding-subsidizes-its-abortions/

          • Claude

            Hey Jerry Hancock,

            Yesterday Sen. Norm Coleman assured a Republican Jewish Coalition gathering in Ohio that Romney would not act to overturn Roe v. Wade.

            “President Bush was president eight years, Roe v. Wade wasn’t reversed. He had two Supreme Court picks, Roe v. Wade wasn’t reversed…It’s not going to be reversed.”

            What has been reversed is Romney’s rhetoric about appointing judges to the Supreme Court hostile to Roe v. Wade. Which is it? The one thing we know with confidence–Mitt Romney will say anything to be elected president!

  • Scott Stone

    Tim

    Check out Under the Banner of Heaven by Krakauer for some great info on Mormonism and the history of the faith.

    • Jerry Hancock

      Why do we care about more information about Mormonism and it’s history, except to help ourselves and others not to join it? This election is not about religion, and it shouldn’t be! It’s about turning this country around and off of the fast tract to Greece it’s on. This election is about the biggest choice this country has made in a President for over 100 years: We are at a crossroads to burn our Constitution as Obama has been doing or to restore it as Romney will surely do. A Gallop Poll in 2007 showed that over 35% of Evangelicals said they would never vote for a Mormon: Evangelicals overwhelmingly chose Huckabee over Romney in 2008 even though Romney was a much higher qualified person for President: And by default, this put Obama up against a much weaker candidate in John McCain, and look who we got for president! Folks… we are not voting for a pastor! Stop thinking like we are. He’s applying for a job that we either hire him for on November 6th, or we hire the guy who is running us off the cliff. If you believe in the law of the land that says we should not discriminate against hiring a person based on his race, color, creed, sex, and religion… etc., then why shouldn’t that same rule apply in your own mind when you vote? It’s only hypocritical to think otherwise!

      • Claude

        There’s too much nonsense in this post to address. I’ll simply note that Obama’s religious affiliations were subject to sustained, intense media scrutiny. Why should Romney get a pass, especially since he served as both a bishop and stake president (IIRC) in the Mormon church.

        • Jerry Hancock

          Well that’s an easy way to dodge a bullet: Just say it’s nonsense and ignore it! LOL

          Evidently, you must be forgetting that it was only Fox News that was burning Obama for his affiliations with Rev Wright and Bill Ayers. Your alphabet TV stations were in Obama’s corner. Sean Hanity was the first person in the entire news media to break this story!

          What’s your point? Mormonism is not saying “G-d da*m America” like Rev. Wright did: The Pastor of Obama’s Church for 20 years! You call that a Reverend? You’re comparing apples with oranges.

          I don’t see the Mormon Church trying to blow up buildings as a home grown terrorist like Obama’s good pal Bill Ayers was doing a few decades ago. So where’s your relevancy in comparing Obama’s religion with Romney’s? Your alphabet TV stations never went against Obama for associating with such people. They hardly even reported on it! They wanted him to win, so they sat on it. I noticed that CNN is a little more balanced this time around though. And some newspapers, like Iowa’s largest newspaper has endorsed Mitt Romney, delivering a blow to President Barack Obama, who it endorsed in 2008! I’m really expecting a landslide on Obama this election. Pride comes before a fall… and Obama is as arrogant as they come! If Romney is elected, he will undo the most single signature work Obama has put so many years of his presidency into: Obama Care! Obama’s legacy will be very small if Romney wins next week.

          • Claude

            (“My” alphabet stations? I don’t watch cable news.) The “relevancy” is not a matter of my personal opinion but that of media precedent. I personally think there’s a litany of reasons why Romney shouldn’t be president, exclusive of his religious views. In any case, I suspect that political expediency would overrule any religious convictions Romney has. But one never knows with him.

            It’s lazy and ignorant to keep parroting the bs on Bill Ayers. No matter how many times Obama’s, and prominent Republicans’, association with Ayers has been explained, it’s clearly precious to you to ignore the facts and embrace the propaganda. So be it.

            And if you think Romney is going to win in a landslide, you’re in for a disappointment. Obama will win, but it will be close.

            By the way, the Salt Lake Tribune, right smack in the middle of Mormon country, endorsed Obama for president this year. That ought to tell you something!

  • http://www.yeshua21.com Wayne

    Is Mormonism Christian? A Respected Advocate for Interreligious Cooperation Responds
    Copyright © 2000 Richard John Neuhaus
    http://mit.irr.org/mormonism-christian-respected-advocate-interreligious-cooperation-responds

    • http://MormonsAreChristian.blogspot.com Mormons Are Christian

      If there had been no Nicene Creed or Emperor Constantine, Catholic and Protestant theology would be quite similar to Mitt Romney’s In fact, there would likely be no need for the Church of Jesus Christ (LDS) to restore Jesus Christ’s church. Mormons’ theology is based on New Testament Christianity, not Fourth Century Creeds. For example, the Church of Jesus Christ (LDS) views on Baptism, Lay Ministry, the Trinity, Theosis, Grace vs. Works, the Divinity of Jesus Christ are closer to Early Christianity than any other denomination. And Mormon teenagers have been judged to “top the charts” in Christian Characteristics by a UNC-Chapel Hill study. Read about it here:

      http://MormonsAreChristian.blogspot.com/

      According to a 2012 Pew Forum poll of members of the Church of Jesus Christ (LDS) 98 percent said they believe in the Resurrection of Jesus Christ, and 97 percent say their church is a Christian religion. They volunteer 7 times as many hours as does the general population, according to a 2012 University of Pennsylvania study. Mormons have a better understanding of Christianity than any other denomination, according to a 2010 Pew Forum poll:

      http://www.pewforum.org/Other-Beliefs-and-Practices/U-S-Religious-Knowledge-Survey.aspx

      11 of the signers of the Declaration of Independence (including several presidents) were non-Trinitarian Christians, as is Mitt Romney, who is as faithful as the most devout Founder.

      Contrast Mitt Romney’s faith to that of Barack Obama: Rev. Jeremiah Wright says “it is hard to tell” if Barack Obama converted from Islam to Christianity”. Wright says “church is not Barack’s thing” .

      • Claude

        If there had been no Nicene Creed…

        The Nicene Creed is foundational to Catholic and Protestant Christianity, for God’s sake! That’s like saying if it weren’t for the Constitution, the US would be “quite similar” to India.

        Please cite where you got your quote from the Rev. Wright. Was it from an email? And where in the Gospels did Jesus say his followers had to go to “church”?

    • Jerry Hancock

      Wayne, it doesn’t matter if Mormons are Christian or not in respect to voting for Mitt Romney. It only matters if you want to know the truth about God. We have had plenty of presidents who were not even religious at all. Being President is just a Job! There’s plenty of non Christians who can do a better job of building a house or repairing a car than many Christians can who are also working in the same capacities. Why would I take my car to a inept auto mechanic just because he was Christian but had a bad reputation as a mechanic? Take the blinders off… my friend!

    • Jerry Hancock

      Mormons believe in Polytheism. That is against the first and foremost Jewish/Christian tennant: “Hear O Israel, the LORD our God, the LORD is One!”

  • Tom

    I’d be pumped if Romney became President, I mean he already has his own planet to inhabit once he dies, so whats the United States to an entire planet in space!? I subscribe to the belief that we need to elect a president based on his presidential qualities, not on his belief system. Pray for our President, yes; support our Nation, yes; vote because someone died for that vote, yes; but vote on the man (or woman at some point) that can lead the country. Who that is….not sure, still searching for my answer this November. But Mormonism is a cult, simply because of how it came about, what its teaching hold and really, a planet when you die?

    • Jerry Hancock

      Not only does he own his own planet, but he has over 200 million dollars of his own money: He built that! So certainly a $300,000 or so annual salary would not be enough incentive to drive him to run for the White House once in 2008, and again in 2012, now would it! I agree with you: We need to elect a man based on his presidential qualities, not his religion.

  • Pingback: Evangelicals are coming out for Romney | ChristianBookBarn.com

    • Jerry Hancock

      It’s sad to see such hypocrisy. Andrew Sullivan was the worst. Talk about nit picky and grabbing for straws. These are the signs of a desperate left who is worried now about losing the right to carry the torch for another four more years. It appears that in recent weeks and days, that Romney’s momentum is building stronger in all the key swing states, and surpassing Obama by a seven point lead in some areas. Now the Democrats are pulling out all the stops: Even these shameless plugs!

      This is a story which should have been talked about by the left 18 or 12 months ago, if in fact it truly is a problem for everyone who’s suddenly critiquing Romney and his Mormonism now. The problem with doing that however, was the fear of a backlash and a massive critique of themselves for ever bringing this topic up in the first place. So the hypocrites have sat on it for all of these months. Actually, I was watching for such criticisms of Mormonism and Romney’s personal faith at the beginning and in the middle of this campaign… and I have been expecting them in a big way for a really long time now. I was truely surprised that I didn’t see a major attack months ago on Romney of this same caliber I’m reading in this blog today. It was not the popular thing to do then or now.

      For the past year or more, there hasn’t been nearly as much talk about Romney’s religion as we have been seeing in recent days it seems. Romney answered the question that Sullivan seemed to not hear. Romney stated that he believed blacks would share in the same and in equal rewards as all other people in heaven. Yet Sullivan, in his hypocrisy… nit pics it and says why couldn’t he have just said “Yes” to the question.

      Critiquing and asking the question “Why didn’t Romney do something to make the Church change it’s erroneous ways and ideas about people of dark skin when he was 31 years old and going to law school” [Paraphrased], would be like if someone critiqued Mr Sullivan for not standing up to the Catholic Church (which I think he indicated that he was a member of) for requiring Priests to never marry. Since we are talking about Blacks not being allowed to enter the Priesthood of the Mormon Church, then we should compare it to Catholics who require their own priests to stay single: Tit for tat! Since Sullivan didn’t do this to his own church… that makes him a hypocrite for demanding that Romney should have done it to the Mormon Church!

      This is what makes Sullivan’s argument so hypocritical, and very similar to the Pharisees who criticized Jesus. Sullivan is trying to build an argument that would persuade others to not vote for Romney because of those things he points out in his article against Romney.

      There’s nothing of value in anything he said. The fact is that dems have nothing left to throw at Romney… or should I say, they never have had anything.

      Side note: As a journalist, a writer, a blogger, or whichever he is… he should know better than to write sentences with more than a few hundred words in any one of them! At least that’s what it seemed like with a few his sentences.

      • http://wordshalfheard.blogspot.com Carol Kuniholm

        Let’s talk about hypocritical: Romney’s Republican opponents and the conservative media expressed concern about Romney’s Mormonism, his consistent deceit, his lack of clear conviction, at great length during the primary. As soon as he became the candidate, those topics became forbidden,, and anyone who dares to raise the same concerns is accused of bias, hypocrisy, distortion, desperation.

        • Jerry Hancock

          It’s not a matter of being hypocritical if you are silent about something. .. or if you stop talking about it. Being hypocritical is a matter of a person criticizing someone for saying or doing something that the criticizer does or says themselves.

          Of course his own Republican opponents expressed concern about Romney’s Mormonism… when they are trying to beat him in a campaign. They floated all kinds of trial balloons against him: Not just his Mormonism, but he still won the nomination. That’s why attacking him now, this late in the game on his Mormonism I say is grasping for straws and it is falling flat on it’s face. It’s already been floated and tried, and proven to not work. If it won’t work in his own party, certainly it won’t work when Democrats try the same thing. They have saved this as one of their last cards to play.

          It only worked in his first bid of election in 2008 when a Protestant Pastor, Governor Huckabee talked about it, (and pointed out correctly that Mormonism teaches that Jesus used to be the brother of Lucifer), and then Huckabee apologized a few days later… but the damage was already done, and most people who listened to him criticize Mormonism probably (in my own unqualified opinion) didn’t hear him apologize for his comments.

          I’m not a Mormon, and never will be: I’m a Protestant, and I have been a regular attendee at a Baptist Church for a period of time in my life… and I am a Christian as well: Not just a church goer. However I thought it was a low blow when Huckabee used the tactic he did. I lost a lot of respect for him when he did that, and so I was happy to find out he wasn’t running again this time around. I thought then, as I do now: That Romney is a much more skilled financial manager and business manager than Huckabee, Obama, or any of those who might have become the GOP nominee.

  • Claude

    Romney’s momentum is building stronger in all the key swing states, and surpassing Obama by a seven point lead in some areas.

    Wrong. Romney’s “momentum” subsided several days ago. On the contrary, Obama has enjoyed a slight uptick in the polls. Aggregate polls still show Obama with a small lead in the swing states. Obama is wiping the floor with Romney in early voting.

    As for Andrew Sullivan, of course he’s trying to persuade people not to vote for Romney! He supports Obama, Mr. Obvious. But I fail to see the hypocrisy in Sullivan’s argument. The fact is that the Mormon Church is authoritarian and Romney apparently did nothing to challenge church orthodoxy on the status of blacks. There is nothing “hypocritical” in pointing this out.

    It’s absurd (not to mention tasteless) to compare this issue with Jesus and the Pharisees. Jesus challenged the religious orthodoxy of his day. Romney did not.

    • Claude

      This post is in response to Jerry Hancock at 9:19. Sorry, I must have hit the wrong Reply button.

    • Jerry Hancock

      @Mormons Are Christian

      You said: “Mormons’ theology is based on New Testament Christianity, not Fourth Century Creeds.”

      Mormon theology is not based on the New Testament! It’s based on the writings of Joseph Smith mostly. He translated it from the Golden Tablets with Special Reading Glasses: Remember? Oh that’s weird: Neither the glasses or the tablets are in existence. Isn’t that convenient! The New Testament does not teach in Polytheism… which is what Mormons believe: The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit are taught to be three separate individuals, and unlike the doctrine of the Trinity which also says they are all three One and the Same God. (Just saying)

    • Jerry Hancock

      You fail to see the hypocrisy??? Stop and think about it! Did you watch all of the videos? Sullivan is making something out of nothing! Romney answered just fine: He not only gave the answer, but even went beyond the basic “Yes” like Sullivan wrongly criticised him for, but he gave an explanation with it.

      There’s nothing tasteless about comparing the hypocrisy of Sullivan with the hypocrisy of the Pharisees. Both criticized another person without reason. Both Sullivan and the Pharisees were hypocritical. Sullivan was so nit picky, trying to make something out of nothing… it’ was pathetic!

      Romney was no leader in the Church: He was a young man still only 31 and in college studying law. It’s hypocritical to have two standards: One that says someone else has to correct their own church, but at the same time, doesn’t correct his own. It would have been different if Romney was the head of the Mormon Church, but he’s not and never has been. Then Sullivan would have had a legitimate beef. Sullivan was just grabbing at straws to try and spin the issue into gold.

      Well, if you listen to the Huffington Post, or maybe NBC, CBS, or ABC – the Alphabet Stations — then I guess you would believe Romney is behind. Here is what the Huffington Post says: “President Barack Obama is tied with Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney at 47 percent among likely voters, according to a poll released Monday afternoon by the Pew Research Center, echoing earlier polls that found the candidates circling each… ”

      Try looking for the current Gallop Poll and the Rasmussen Poll. They are superior!

      • Claude

        You are muddying the waters.

        First, yes I watched the video, and yes Romney fudged on the Mormon Church’s former racist theology. In true GOP fashion, he would not admit error. I think Sullivan is right that Romney’s history in the Mormon Church is fair game, although I’m personally not that interested in it. Perhaps I should be, though.

        I maintain that it’s tasteless to compare Sullivan with the Pharisees, since it implies a comparison of Jesus with Mitt Romney; especially since the analogy doesn’t even work. Like I said, Jesus challenged the orthodox religion of his time; Romney did not. The Pharisees criticized Jesus’s unorthodox interpretation of the Jewish law; Sullivan criticizes Romney’s failure to challenge Mormon orthodoxy. This whole example is ridiculous and a little repellent.

        It’s hypocritical to have two standards: One that says someone else has to correct their own church, but at the same time, doesn’t correct his own. It would have been different if Romney was the head of the Mormon Church, but he’s not and never has been.

        Who said this? And no one but the head of a church has the authority to criticize the church? Really?!

        As for the polls, you’re confusing national with state polls. The president is elected by the Electoral College, not the popular vote. Gallup is considered an outlier, and it’s a national poll, anyway. The state polls are in general agreement that Obama is ahead in the swing states by 1 or 2 points. That’s what matters. Obama will rightly win this election.

        Please stop giving me advice on who to “listen” to, since I find you quite ill-informed.

        • Jerry Hancock

          Claude,

          Almost everyone of your posts to me has something in it that is insulting. In this case, you said I’m confused between the State Polls and the National Polls. No: You are wrong! Again.

          http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/obama_administration/daily_presidential_tracking_poll

          “Tuesday, October 30, 2012
          The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Tuesday shows Mitt Romney attracting support from 49% of voters nationwide, while President Obama earns the vote from 47%.
          Monday, October 29, 2012
          The race for Ohio’s Electoral College votes remains very close, but now Mitt Romney now has a two-point advantage.
          The latest Rasmussen Reports telephone survey of Likely Ohio Voters shows Romney with 50% support to President Obama’s 48%…”

          What do you mean: “Who Said This”? Don’t you Get It? I said this: That is my statement! I say it again: It’s hypocritical to have a double standard: That’s simple, and should be obvious to see if you didn’t have bias opinions blocking your sights! Your very annoying to me: You seem arrogant in many ways. Sullivan is hypocritical for saying Romney is wrong for not fixing his own church, while at the same time Sullivan has no interest in fixing his own Catholic church.

          No Christian in his right mind would vote for Obama, because no true Christian is for abortion: It’s murder… and Obama is even for partial birth abortion, in which a child is murdered just moments before his birth.

          I am not wrong on the Polls, and Gallop is not an outlier as you say. Gallop is a standard. And Rasmussen is one of the most accurate in former elections. I get the Rasmussen polls in my email almost everyday. I know the difference between a national poll and a state poll… a popular vote and a college vote. Please don’t be so condescending! I don’t believe I can discuss anything more with you!

          • Claude

            If you know so much about Gallup why can’t you even spell Gallup? But why sputter in this thread. Tim Suttle has a new post on the polls that confirms much of what I’ve been saying here. By the way, Rasmussen skews Republican and gets weighted accordingly by Nate Silver. I haven’t determined that Gallup is an outlier; guys like Silver have.

            As for my being condescending, etc., you offered a national poll reported by the Huffington Post to suggest that the race is tied. Maybe the race is tied nationally, but it doesn’t matter. You gave no indication of being aware of this, so you have no grounds for complaint.

            You are wrong about Andrew Sullivan. He frequently criticizes his own Roman Catholic Church, starting with the Pope himself. But even if he didn’t, it has no bearing whatsoever on whether his criticism of Romney is legitimate. Andrew Sullivan could be a raving hypocrite, and it wouldn’t affect whether Mitt Romney was morally delinquent for deferring to racist LDS theology.

            By the way, Obama is not “for” late-term abortion. Another completely distorted piece of propaganda.

            No true Christian would vote for abortion. We are not having a national election on abortion. The Republican party dangles the abortion issue in front of the base every election, and you fall for it every time! Norm Coleman inadvertently told the truth: the national Republicans will do little to overturn Roe v. Wade–it is too useful a vote-getter for them. There are, of course, many, many pro-choice Christians. For example, Catholics still favor Obama after strenuous efforts by the US Conference of Catholic Bishops to promote Romney and demagogue “religious liberty.” Perhaps they think that their religious beliefs shouldn’t be imposed on a diverse republic and there are far more urgent matters confronting the country than abortion. Jesus said “follow me.” That appears to be the criterion for being a “true” Christian.

  • http://wordshalfheard.blogspot.com Carol Kuniholm

    The idea that Mormonism “shares our values” is troubling to me. Mormonism was founded by a convicted con-man whose values were power, money, and women. The Mormon church continues to maintain power through an authoritarian business model, coercive language promising ostracism in this life and punishment in the next for women who don’t comply, and a deep veil of secrecy. If Mormon teens are far more compliant than other modern teens, it’s because they’re afraid to think, disagree, or investigate the fraudulent claims they’ve been fed. According to Mormon leaders, from Joseph Smith to today, “It’s true if I say it is, ” and Romney has been steeped in that form of thought. Christian leaders who support him and fail to speak clearly about Mormon “values” endorse institutional relativism and promote values antithetical to the values of the gospel.

    • Jerry Hancock

      Some Christian values are often shared by even atheists, agnostics, and even cult leaders. There are plenty of people in the world for instance, who believe it’s wrong to commit adultery, or murder, or larceny, yet they are not Christians. Judaism for instance shares many of the same identical values as Christians do. Islam shares even fewer. To say one shares in Christian values is not to say they are Christian. People can certainly share in Christian moral values, but yet still fail to believe the Gospel: That Jesus is the Christ and that God raised him from the grave on the third day.

      Institutional relativism is a product of Leninism.

      The polygamist who wanted to make polygamy legal and who invented a religion to incorporate polygamy, came around long before Lenin did.

      I say that if Mormonism were a true Gospel, then the leaders of Mormonism conceded, and capitulated their fight against the Federal Government which condemned polygamy, and in doing so, Mormonism showed itself to be non-Apostolic.

      We see in the New Testament that the Acts of true Apostles do not surrender their religious beliefs to any government whatsoever. We see this in the Old Testament as well. For example: King Nebuchadnezzar who commanded everyone to worship a large golden idle in Daniel chapter three. Some certain Israelites refused to do so.

      Furthermore, if I should choose to hire a Mormon in my own business, if I had one: Then certainly this does not make me a Mormon or even sympathetic to Mormonism. I have not sinned by hiring a Mormon, nor have I endorsed his/her religion… any more than if I hired an atheist or non religious person, would it make me nonreligious or atheist. Wouldn’t we agree that I am not promoting Mormonism if I should decide to hire a Mormon? I think most people would agree with that.

      Mormon doctrine is contrary to Scriptures in the Bible on many fronts. There is no explanation for that, except that it’s hearsay, because the Bible is the only word of God!

      It is equally untrue that Christian leaders who support Romney and fail to speak clearly about Mormon antithetical values to the Gospel are endorsing institutional relativism or even Mormonism itself for that matter. It is absurd to think that I am promoting Mormonism or it’s anti Christian values if I support Mitt Romney… even if I don’t happen to talk about the negatives of his religion.

  • Claude

    Um, Andrew Sullivan is not “Democrats,” and there have been press pieces on Romney and Mormonism all along. Sullivan is a self-identified conservative. Or is Rush spewing about a Mormon card this week.


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