Comment of the Day

Sam comments on my Rich Cizik post:

I thank God for Rich Cizik’s courage. He was just out here at Azusa
Pacific University where I now work and spoke some good words. I am
like him, for civil unions for homosexual and heterosexual, with the
church making theological decisions about marriage within each
denomination.

This goes to show that the NAE is less evangelical or Christian and
more a political tool for right wing politics masked in an insipid form
of religious Christianity.

You can be sure that when a Christian disowns another Christian
brother or sister over how they voted politically, you can be sure
those who disowned the brother or sister are not Christians in the way
of Jesus.

  • http://www.al-muses.blogspot.com Al

    I have noticed that the heart of a person tends to show up not only in what they say, but how they say it. Compassion, love, and an effort to understand (and other Christ-like character traits) really demonstrate whether someone is seeking to follow Christ, or instead what they see to be the letter of the law.
    Recent comments like Sam’s:
    “You can be sure that when a Christian disowns another Christian brother or sister over how they voted politically, you can be sure those who disowned the brother or sister are not Christians in the way of Jesus.”
    or Les Chatwin’s:
    “The gay people I talk to aren’t interested in the fundamentalist debate; they are interested in having hope and purpose for their lives and so I deal in relationships as well.”
    or Existential Punk’s:
    “Wow, a thinking person with an open mind who has not figured out all the answers to life or all the proper interpretations of the Bible.”
    all appear to me to me to be people who have a heart for people, trying to live out a day-to-day expression of their relationship with Christ, recognizing that there is always more to learn and understand.
    Other comments like Jeff’s:
    “It was Mr. Cizik’s choice to step away from scripture …. to lose scriptural perspective…”
    or A now happy man’s:
    “we do have all the answers…its the Bible.”
    or Whisp’s:
    “LISA MILLER, LIKE SO MANY LIBERAL, IRRESPONSIBLE JOURNALISTS…. THE IDEA THAT BRILLIANT HISTORICAL EVANGELICAL SCHOLARS HAVE TWISTED AND TURNED THE SCRIPTURES TO THEIR OWN LIKING IS SIMPLY AN OLD PLOY…”
    or A Walker’s:
    “Next, liberal progressives don’t care what the bible says (and they know it speaks against homosexuality). They’re going full speed ahead with their lust for societal reengineering and experimentation, and they are attempting to stop the dissenting voices who aren’t going along with their mad scientist agenda of human-animal hybrids, killing the aged and infants, socialism, and the elimination of sexual morality and responsibility.”
    strike me as being arrogant (“making claims or pretensions to superior importance or rights; overbearingly assuming; insolently proud.” Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1). Random House, Inc. )
    For me, arrogance is like the loudest person in an argument–it tends to show that they don’t have much of a foundation to back them up except the volume. It also points to the lack of compassion and love I started out this post with.
    So, I encourage us all to stifle the rhetoric and name-calling, and get to the heart of Christ–love. (Remember John 3:16,17?)

  • Scott

    First, let me state that homosexuality is CLEARLY addressed in the Bible(old and New Testament).
    That being said, we Christians need to draw a line between what the Bible says and what the position of government should be. The constitution is NOT the Bible. It is intended to protect the rights of the citizens of the US(and appearantly anyone else too…but I digress). Homosexual couples should have the rights afforded to them that ALL couples do. There needs to be a clear demarkation between government and the church. A Christian’s loyalty is to God, above and beyond any government in this world. So, within the Church, there should not be any hint of immorality(that includes ALL sexual sin…adultery, fornication, pornography…ANY!!!). Since people seem to be so fond of quoting Jesus(who is God the Son…the Word) to support acceptance within the church, here are some quotes… “If you love me, you will obey what I command.”(Jn. 14:15),”Be holy, because I am holy”(Lev. 11:44,1Peter 1:16),”What comes out of a man is what makes him unclean. For from within, out of men’s hearts come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander arrogance and folly. All these evils come from inside and make a man ‘unclean’.(Mark 7:20-23)
    I know…”judge not”…newsflash, calling something a sin, as defined by God’s word, is not judging. There is no consequence when we point out sin. We are simply stating what God’s Word says.

  • JonAtFaithUCC

    Rich Cizik’s later statements from Box Turtle Bulletin (source– http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/12/11/7299):
    “I categorically oppose ‘gay marriage’ and see now that my thoughts about ‘civil unions’ were misunderstood and misplaced,” Cizik said, according to the message. “I am now and always have been committed to work to pass laws that protect and foster family life, and to work against government attempts to interfere with the integrity of the family, including same-sex ‘marriage’ and civil unions.”
    So what is he? In favor of civil unions or against them?

  • http://www.samandress.blogspot.com Sam

    Gosh, that was a slight cantankerous comment. Damn Tony I didn’t realize it was going to go front page.

  • Your Name

    Going beyond the fundamentalist “Christian” obsession with gays gaining relationship rights whether they be called “marriage”, “civil unions”, or “domestic partnerships”, they also work feverishly to block basic fairness / non-discrimination laws from being enacted. When human rights laws that include gays are enacted by city, county or state governments, they become the cheerleaders and the foot-soldier organizers to have these laws overturned. The most recent example is found on the link I posted from Kalamazoo, MI. Fundamentalists are actively passing petitions in their churches to re-legalize discrimination against gays (how christ-like). This is one of hundreds of examples over the past decade just in the US. I don’t know which to pity more: the fundamentalists who carry out this injustice with inquisition zeal or the mainline Christians who sit idly by and watch all this evil being perpetrated in their name and doing basically nothing to stop it. In either case, Jesus wept.