Mondays with Mark

Here’s the next in my occasional series with Mark Patrick, my spiritual director.

Tony: Mark, one of the things that you’ve said to me that
caused me a great deal of introspection came in the late summer.  I
was describing to you how angry I was getting over a particular situation,
and then I made some comment about how my weakness seems to be anger over
depression.  Then you said, “Tony, anger is depression.”

surprised me because I tend to think of depression as the “noonday demon,”
and I think a lot of people agree with me.  But then I read The
Chemistry of Joy
, which you recommended, and it really opened my eyes to
the different way that depression manifests itself in different

Mark: Tony, I recall that
conversation.  And I recall many times in my own experience where I
found it hard to separate anger and depression as well.  A good deal
of my understanding comes from the work of Dr. Steven Stosny, a researcher
and therapist from the Maryland area.  While it’s based on current
brain research I find it completely compatible with my understanding
of the teachings of Jesus Christ. 

The bottom line is that
the catalyst for both anger and depression is often the hurts we
experience at a very deep level…experiencing feelings of being
misunderstood, rejected, unimportant, powerless, and even unlovable. 
Out of those feelings (and the thoughts that led to them) we can lash out
at someone else, get upset with ourselves, withdraw from others in
isolation, or try to avoid the hurts altogether with some compulsive
behaviors that only complicate our situations.
I recall a couple decades
ago many counselors would tell our clients who were depressed that they
need to get in touch with their anger!  So, several sessions later
the client was less outwardly depressed, but now more angry and often
blaming someone else for their difficulty. 
Now I see both anger and
depression as two sides of the same coin.  Both are stimulated by a
lack of  compassion for ourselves and others. 
And our emotional
experience also stems from other factors which include; one’s genetic
makeup, lifestyle factors such as nutrition, exercise, stress
reduction, and less tangible but just as real factors as ones
positive connections through faith, prayer, and
meditation.  All of these are made more effective with helpful candid
connections with other people.

Tony: Well, I know that you’ve had your own experiences with depression,
too, and that’s helped me so much when we’ve met.  What I’m saying is
that it’s gone beyond the clinical into the ability to share life with one

I know beyond a doubt that exercise and diet affect my
tendencies toward “angry depression,” as Henry Emmons writes about.  He
breaks depression down into three types: anxiety depression, angry depression,
and slothful depression.  As I read those chapters, I knew clearly where
I fit, and I’ve tried, of late, to change my diet, sleep, and exercise
patterns as he suggests (although my back surgery has slowed down my progress
a bit).  Emmons even suggests certain types of food and herbs that will
literally affect my brain chemistry and supplement the overages or deficiences
I have in particular brain chemicals!  I found that information

Are you willing write a bit about our own journey through
a particular type of depression?

Mark:  As
I think back on my life I have always leaned a bit
toward depression.  I used to think of it as being the reflective
type, you know English Major and all that.   However, I had a few
factors that made me more
susceptable to depression: I believe both my
parents struggled with depression.  My father’s was complicated by
his alcohol abuse.  So, there was a genetic factor there for me. 
Beyond that I had quite a conservative religious background in church,
where at that time anger and depression were both suspect. 
There was high value placed on being nice and not making waves. 
Asking questions
 was not especially
encouraged.  So, my interpretation was that I should be happy and not be
upset–or it was my own fault. 
A couple years ago I finally
went to find some help for myself.  I didn’t realize that I still had
some of the stigma attached to getting help for mental health I criticised
others for having.  I thought it was fine as long as it was someone else,
but I shouldn’t need it myself.  Which I know is simply not the
case.  So, I’ve found a number of resources that are vital to
me now.  First is a more candid and deeper relationship with my
wife.  Next is actually a deeper experience of faith–a focus on
contemplative prayer.  One type of journalling for me consists
of writing prayers–simple, honest, candid, and personal…I have a stronger
sense of God’s presence than previouisly. 
Along with that are the
principles you mentioned from The Chemistry of Joy book:  Better
nutrition, more exercise, some medication, and meditation.  But in all of
it is a more open attitude toward myself and allowing other people to know
me.  I’m finding a kind of connection with people I tried to provide for
others but didn’t often experience myself.  Now I’m
"Have you considered professional online editing services like ?"

The Writing Life
"I'm not missing out on anything - it's rather condescending for you to assume that ..."

Is It Time for Christians to ..."
"I really don't understand what you want to say.Your"

Would John Piper Excommunicate His Son?

Browse Our Archives

Follow Us!

What Are Your Thoughts?leave a comment
  • Tony and Mark
    Thanks for posting this. Takes guts to be open and honest.
    I look forward to reading The Chemistry of Joy.
    Learning to deal with anger and depression is “church appropriate” ways is really hard. It shouldn’t be, we should be allowed to just be ourselves, be transparent and real, and to not be judged.
    May God give us the grace to step into true communities of faith in the future.
    I keep telling my congregation not to wear their “church mask” to church. But when we start to live that way, it gets messy, and people’s feeling get hurt, and I find myself saying, maybe we shouldn’t be quite that real.
    Its a dance.

  • TJ,
    As a post-structuralist, you may be interested in exploring the gifts of Narrative Therapy (if you haven’t already). It’s based on postmodernism and post-structualism. Narrative Therapy assumes people construct their realities through language – and these realities are maintained through stories. The goal of the therapist is to explore these stories with a client, shrink problematic narratives, and expand preffered narratives. This is done through a variety of techniques. Through “deconstructive listening,” the therapist helps the client explore the meanings and stories that construct their reality. In other words the therapist helps the client explore their stories from different angles, so they can see that those stories can be changed and re-storied. Through “externalizing the problem,” the therapist helps the client identify and objectify the problem in their narratives so it can become something to be addressed and controlled. This gives the client agency over the problem. So, a problem, such as depression, becomes something to be struggled against and overcome. As the problem is identified, objectified, and confronted, then “unique outcomes” can be imagined and used. Here, the therpist may ask, “How have to overcome depressive feelings in this situation in the past?” Then they will explore how those feelings can be overcome in the future. The clients themselves are the ones who come up with their own ways to arrive at “unique outcomes.” Once unique outcomes begin to exist, then the problematic narratives begin to change and shrink – and alternative stories begin to emerge and expand. This empowers the client to actively resist problems, creatively build new stories, and move toword a preffered life/reality. While this is a very brief and incomplete description of Narrative Therapy, I think it highlights the basics. I think Narrative Therapy would work well for pastors, especially pastors committed to the postmodernity of the Emergent Church. The coolest thing is that Narrative Therapy is a way to use postmodern theory in a practical and helpful way.

  • Pat

    “”It’s never a sin to be angry, but sometimes it’s a sin to not be angry.” It’s never a sin to be angry because emotions are morally neutral. But the lack of anger is sinful when we see things such as injustice and abuse yet remain unmoved and inactive.”
    I don’t follow this. If it’s a sin to not get angry when we see something that should provoke anger, it must be just as much of a sin to get angry over things that should not provoke us.
    My pastor says anger is a secondary emotion, and should be dealt with by discovering what primary emotion has sparked it. I myself feel that anger is a moral judgment, and like all moral judgments can both be incorrect and reveal our faulty moral assumptions.

  • Thank you for sharing Tony. I struggle with depression. Didn’t realize there are those three kinds: anxiety, anger, and slothful. I experience anxiety and slothful based depressions. Part of being the body of Christ is community and that stems in part from shared experiences. I am glad for your candidness in this area. Praying for you as ever. 🙂