The Foolishness Of Christianity

The Foolishness Of Christianity April 6, 2015

Atheists often level the charge at Christians that the Bible is a book of fables and myths, that Christianity is a man-made religion, and that God does not exist. Does their accusation make any sense at all? Put on your thinking caps, warm up your common sense, and let’s take a practical look at this issue.

Why would anyone create a religion consisting of standards that they could not possibly meet? The religions that man creates are always based on something we can do to justify ourselves: meditation, good works, abstaining from certain things, participating in others. When humans create their own standards, they are always within reach; they are always something we can obtain by our own effort. False religions consist of rules, regulations, and tenets that we are capable of meeting (performing, executing, etc.) by ourselves, under our own power that enable us to attain to whatever ideas these religions ascribe to.

Christianity is different; the Bible tells us that there is nothing we can do, no works or good deeds, that can gain forgiveness for the sin we each are born in and commit every day. “There is none who understands, there is none who seeks for God; all have turned aside, together they have become useless; there is none who does good, there is not even one” (Rom. 3:11-12 NASB).

God even has to give us the ability to have faith in Him; “For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them” (Eph. 2:8-10 NASB).

God, through His Son, Jesus Christ, has done everything necessary for the forgiveness of our sins; we must simply put our faith in Him, “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him” (John 3:16-17 NASB).

Skeptics, atheists, unbelievers, scoffers, and mockers say that the idea of Christianity, Jesus paying the debt for our sins, is ridiculous. When we look into the Bible, we see that the concept of ‘foolishness’ and ‘wisdom’ addressed. Let’s take a closer look.

Unbelievers know the truth

“For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God” (I Cor. 1:18 NASB). The Bible says that those who reject God’s Word also consider it to be foolishness. Now, the order is important here: these non-believers do not reject His Word because they think it is foolishness; rather, they first reject God’s Word claiming it to be foolishness. In their hearts, they know the truth concerning God; therefore, they are willfully rejecting that truth, “For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened” (Rom. 1:18-21 NASB). Not wanting to appear ignorant for rejecting what they know to be true, these skeptics claim that they are rejecting ‘foolishness’ instead of life-giving truth.

Are we wiser than God?

We consider ourselves to be wise; we think we are smarter than God. This isn’t a new concept at all. Often, skeptics and scoffers claim that modern science has eliminated the need to believe in outdated religious myths, books written by uneducated simpletons, and invisible deities. These unbelievers trust in their own intellect as adequate to unravel the mysteries of the universe; they consider themselves to be ‘wise’.

What does the Bible have to say about such ‘wisdom’? “For it is written, “I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and the cleverness of the clever I will set aside. Where is the wise man? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?” (I Cor. 1:19-20 NASB). Any so-called ‘wisdom’ that leads away from God is not Wisdom at all, but human foolishness that leads to an eternity of misery and separation from the love of God, “Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men” (I Cor. 1:25 NASB). Often, our pride makes us think we are too smart to allow ourselves to believe the truth of the Bible; however, it is this pride that also separates us from God and leaves us condemned when He judges humanity, “Professing to be wise, they became fools” (Rom. 1:22 NASB). Anyone who thinks they are wise to reject God should consider this fact, “The fool has said in his heart, “There is no God”” (Psalm 14:1, 53:1 NASB). Anyone who rejects God is revealing the fact that they are foolish, not wise.

All in God’s plan.

So, what’s the point in all this talk about wisdom and foolishness? The point is that it is God’s plan to provide for our salvation in a manner that makes it clear that He did it all; we simply participate in His plan, we are the creatures, He is the Creator. “…but God has chosen the foolish things of the world to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to shame the things which are strong…so that no man may boast before God” (I Cor. 1:27, 29 NASB). It is not what we claim is right, but what God claims is right, that is important, “There is a way which seems right to a man, But its end is the way of death” (Prov. 14:12, 16:25 NASB).

Our response

So, how should we respond to this knowledge from God? There are only two responses possible; we can accept God’s ‘foolish’ offer of salvation, have our sins forgiven, and live for eternity in paradise with Him. Or, we can reject His offer of salvation, depend on our own ‘wisdom’, and be condemned to an eternity of misery, separated from His love. The choice is ours. But, do not kid yourself, “Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you thinks that he is wise in this age, he must become foolish, so that he may become wise. For the wisdom of this world is foolishness before God. For it is written, “He is the one who catches the wise in their craftiness”; and again, “The Lord knows the reasonings of the wise, that they are useless” (I Cor. 3:18-20 NASB).

Each of us must choose whether we will surrender our pride and selfishness in order to worship God, or whether we will cling to ‘foolishness’, call it ‘wisdom’, and suffer eternal misery. Just as Moses presented God’s offer of salvation to the Israelites, so now they have been presented to you, what will you choose?

“I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. So choose life in order that you may live, you and your descendants…” (Deut. 30:19 NASB).

Article by Robert Driskell

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  • Bill Spivey

    Another Christian’s explanation of how it’s all true because the Bible says so. It is astounding how people fall for this circular rationale, by which ANY idea can be declared true if it has a supporting book. One could just as well claim to believe in Huckleberry Finn.

    • Robert Driskell

      Have you ever honestly investigated the claims of Christianity? It’s not based on “believing things you know ain’t true”, like so many atheists claim. It seems to me that anyone claiming to be intelligent would consider their eternal destination to be of some importance.

      • Sagrav

        The Christian response to the question of our eternal destination is just one of many religious answers. Why are we to put our faith in your religion as opposed to all of the others (or in none at all)?

        Also, to answer the question “Why would anyone create a religion consisting of standards that they could not possibly meet?”

        Threatening people with damnation and then telling them that they can’t meet the impossible task of being “good” enough to avoid damnation is an easy way to keep the flock scared and dependent on both the church and its scripture. Since individuals are given no means of achieving salvation or nirvana by themselves, they are left subservient to a priest class that appears to have the only means of determining who may receive grace. If I believe that I can cleanse my own soul (or if I believe that there is no soul to cleanse), then I have no need of religious authorities to teach me the ‘correct’ interpretation of vague and often contradictory myths and legends from our ancient past.

        • Robert Driskell

          Hi Sagrav,
          The reason you should believe the Gospel of Jesus Christ is because it makes the best sense of the world we live in. I know that I will never convince anyone to believe in Jesus, that is not my responsibility. I am simply to present the Truth; each person must decide for themselves. However, if you are as intelligent as you seem, you know that all beliefs can be wrong (we simply may not understand anything), but they can’t all be right (due to the so-called ‘law of non-contradiction’). I am sorry that you believe God’s offer of salvation to be merely a ploy by unscrupulous humans to dupe you. I hope, for your sake, that you’ve thought seriously about the claims of the Bible (not someone’s religion) and you’re not just blindly following the skeptic talking points. May God reveal the truth to you and, as I said, here is the Gospel in a nutshell (actually a couple of verses):
          “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him” (John 3:16-17 NASB).

          • Jason Rivera

            Deception 1: “For God so loved the world,…” but 1 John 2:15 believers that God wants them NOT to love the world: “Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.”

            Thus, on the one hand we are told God loves the world in John’s Gospel
            only to be again told in John’s Epistle for Christians NOT to love the
            world. Since – in both cases – the Greek for word here is κόσμον, one is totally fed a flat out contradiction in these to New Testament books.

            Secondly, if God really loves the world, he would not have destroyed it in the Flood of Noah. (Love and destruction are totally antonyms!)

            Deception 2: “…that He gave His only begotten Son,…” Yet in Genesis 6:2 we are clearly told: “that the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves, whomever they chose.” Just as the Hebrew plainly states: בְנֵי־הָאֱלֹהִים וַיִּרְאוּ God already had “sons” plural! So one must wondered: Even if the Hellenistic Greek writer of the Gospel of John did not understand the Hebrew text, he surely had the LXX which clearly again states “οἱ υἱοὶ τοῦ θεοῦ”.

            This same Hebrew syntax is also found again in Job 1:6 האלהים בני which also supports Genesis 6:2 in that God already had male children. However, in the LXX this verse is changed to: …“ἰδοὺ ἦλθον οἱ ἄγγελοι τοῦ θεοῦ παραστῆναι ἐνώπιον τοῦ κυρίου καὶ ὁ διάβολος ἦλθεν μετ’ αὐτῶν”. Thus, by the mid-third century BCE, בני (sons) has become οἱ ἄγγελοι (angles) and השטן (the accuser) has become ὁ διάβολος (the devil).

            While Christians get all choked up about God giving his only son, Jesus;
            they need to read and believe their Bibles more! With all the effort
            by Christian apologists to make Jesus’ birth special and totally
            different from God’s other sons found in Genesis 6:2 and Job 1:6 by
            pointing out that Jesus was God’s “only begotten son” (μονογενῆ / monogenē),
            this “mono” (one / only) + “gene” (generation) is also used as the
            suffix that gives the book of Gene-sis it name. But this enforces the
            lie by not taking the fact that God already had fathered sons much
            earlier making them just as divine / semi-divine as Jesus was himself.
            While Greek authors love New Testament to quote the LXX for proof texts
            to prove Jesus was divine, sometimes the Old Testament can be a source
            of embarrassment as in the case of God’s own sexual philandering!

            Deception 3: “…that whoever believes in Him shall not perish,…”
            The problem posed here is the fact that orthodox Christian dogma
            states, as based on both Jesus and the New Testament, that the soul of
            the non-believer will suffer for eternity in the fires of torment (see:
            Mark 9: 44 – 48). However, the Greek word used here is “ἀπόληται”
            which clearly means “to destroy fully (reflexively, to perish, or
            lose), literally or figuratively — destroy, die, lose, perish”. So
            just which part of the New Testament contains the lie? According to
            atheists and John 3: 16, all the non-believing humans who die are simply
            destroyed; meaning they have at death no eternal soul (Also the Belief
            of Jehovah Witnesses). Fact is, we could say that John 3:16 supports the atheist view of life!

            Deception 4: “…but have eternal life…” The propaganda sold in this verse is to an ancient world which has its Sitz im Leben (Life Situation) in
            an ancient society where the average person making it to the age of 30
            was considered old and a time when a simple abscessed tooth could mean
            certain death! The promise sold in John 3: 16 is that the average person
            to be just like the Egyptian Pharaohs or a Roman Caesars (working
            miracles and never dying spiritually or having an eternal after life).
            Thus, Christianity now offered the poor masses that they to though
            belief in Jesus could achieve godhood themselves! To argue that “ζωὴν αἰώνιον”
            (life eternal) simply means that the dead believer lives forever with a
            theos / god in some heaven is reading much later Christian dogma into
            verse.

            Secondly, when one considers the older Hebrew eternal life in the
            stories of Enoch, Moses and Elijah (along with the Greek story of the
            miracle worker Apollinus of Tyana who also is claimed also to
            have worked miracles and to have never died); the claim of eternal life
            in John 3:16 was given even far more credence than it was accorded as it
            was preached to the superstitious and mostly literate masses of the
            Greco-Roman empire in order to gain fast converts in a ancient world
            that swam in a sea of competing religions which also offered promises of
            hope. In the end, it was Christianity which out sold its fellow rival
            religions with a godhood / miracles and eternal life for all who
            believed.

            With verses like John 3:16, which promised one could live eternally like any god, coupled with wonders ) working miracles (τέρατα Acts 2:19), signs (σημεῖον Matt. 12:38), and mighty works (δυνάμεσιν
            Acts 2:22), the Christian sale pitch was on for converts. After all,
            this god status of working miracles was even promised to fateful
            believers by Jesus himself in the same Gospel: Verily,
            verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do
            shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go
            unto my Father. John 14: 12.

            Conclusion: With regards to John 3:16, we must understand that hope need
            not be true (as this verse certainly is not when place in both its
            Biblical and historical doctrinal context). It only needs to be a sales
            pitch of hope! Thus, as with the old circus con-game: Everybody who plays (Who believes); is Everybody is a winner! (Has Eternal life (meaning godhood itself)).

            John 3:16 is a fail and doesn’t provide evidence so no need to post it.

          • Robert Driskell

            Your comment belies an unhealthy ignorance of Scripture (albeit an energetic ignorance). It reveals, yet once again, the lengths humanity will go to in the attempt to justify themselves for rejecting God’s love and sovereignty. “The fool has said in his heart, “There is no God”, (Psalm 14:1, 53:1). Thank you for commenting.

          • Jason Rivera

            So you will continue to ignore the evidence challenge and post more filed bible verses? Lol, ok, you’re not a very mature person. You’re passive aggressive behavior is showing.

            As to the immoral charge this is not true of atheists. You see, this is
            not about having a basis for morality. It’s a charge against the
            behavior of people who do not believe in God. The passage claims that we
            are in fact immoral and even wicked people–that we do not live
            according to moral “wisdom.” This is about our behavior not our beliefs,
            for it’s speaking about the behavioral consequences of our not believing.

            I would think this discussion alone should end any pretensions about an
            inerrant Bible. One lone ethical atheist destroys such a notion, for
            what he believes is not the issue, his behavior is. Even if the atheist
            is inconsistent in his behavior, as Christians might want to claim, that
            too is irrelevant. It’s about his behavior. And Psalm 14:1 says we
            behave immorally (characteristics like murderer, rapist, someone who
            defrauds others, violent, lawless, etc).

            One lone ethical atheist destroys such a notion. And although I’m not
            claiming to be something I’m not, I’ll put my behavior up against most
            Christian’s behavior.

            In any case, all it takes is one lone ethical atheist to refute this
            passage in the Bible. That being said, good behaving atheists number in
            the millions.

            Keep those failed verses coming my guy. It will never provide evidence that your god is any realer than the other 2700 hundred.

          • Robert Driskell

            Jason, the evidence is all around you. You simply attribute everything to random chance instead of God; therefore, you attempt to justify yourself. No, I never said atheist were immoral (and you call me immature). Therefore, the rest of your strawman comment is irrelevant. I will say that all humanity is sinful and in need of salvation (forgiveness). I will say that this forgiveness is found in Jesus Christ. I pray you will stop resisting God’s grace someday. But, in the end, we each choose our eternal destiny. Thank you for commenting.

          • Jason Rivera

            “Jason, the evidence is all around you.”

            A fallacy known is “confirmation bias”

            Sorry, that’s not evidence but a claim. You failed again.

          • Robert Driskell

            Thank you for commenting.

          • Jason Rivera

            You’re welcome. Thank you for not being able to provide evidence for your god.

          • Robert Driskell

            It’s all around you, Jason. You simply choose to reject it. Thank you for commenting.

          • Jason Rivera

            Lol, that’s a fallacy known as confirmation bias. You failed again

          • Jason Rivera

            How can you reject something you cannot prove conclusively?

          • Jason Rivera

            “No, I never said atheist were immoral (and you call me immature).”

            Smh, you just posted the failed pslams 14:1 verse liar

          • Robert Driskell

            Your point?

          • Jason Rivera

            You know my point, you just can’t handle it

          • Jason Rivera

            “Jason, the evidence is all around you. You simply attribute everything to random chance instead of God”

            That’s what you claim, I never said anything about chance.
            This proves that you, just like many christians, already have an assumption about people who don’t agree with your unproven claims.

            “therefore, you attempt to justify yourself.”

            You keep using this god that you have yet to prove exists, as a way of thinking that you have over powered reasonable and rational thinking. Sorry, it doesn’t work that way.

            “Therefore, the rest of your strawman comment is irrelevant.”

            Another attempt to avoid the evidence challenge

            ” I will say that all humanity is sinful and in need of salvation
            (forgiveness). I will say that this forgiveness is found in Jesus
            Christ. I pray you will stop resisting God’s grace someday. But, in
            the end, we each choose our eternal destiny.”

            So more proselytizing and no evidence?

            Your passive aggressive behavior is only make you look more out of it my friend.

            But as all my other replies, you still believe in an unproven god out of 2700 of them. Good luck

          • Robert Driskell

            And I thank you for the opportunity to present Him to you. It is still a choice you must make. Thank you for commenting.

          • Jason Rivera

            A choice over his plan? Lol, nice try, but you cannot just change what your book says just because you want to be right. How old are you? 5?

          • Robert Driskell

            I think we’re done. I see you’re bringing out the playground antics now. I find it interesting that you reject the idea of God while you continually put forth His attributes to buttress your argument against Him. Remember, you choose. Thank you for commenting.

          • The Brief

            Remember no one is good in God’s eyes for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. Both people who claim to be Cristians and those who don’t are guilty in God’s eyes it is by grace alone we are saved. There is no such thing as a good Christian or good non-Christian. We are utterly sinfull and all that is good in me comes from God.

          • Jason Rivera

            Thnx for reminding me of such a terrible story from a god who nobody has proven. The way you speak about followers of this god and the god himself is very similar to a women in a relationship with a man who beats her. No need for it. We aren’t born with sin, we are not broken, don’t need saving and no need to believe in something that nobody has proven over the other 2700 others.

            Keep that to yourself please. Thank you

          • Jason Rivera

            And btw, you are claiming that I said there is no god, which I am not claiming. I am simply challenging your claims that I am skeptical about. But you won’t provide any because there is none and will just keep replying with the typical christian responses.

          • Robert Driskell

            Exactly, the typical Christian truth. Thank you for commenting.

          • Jason Rivera

            “Exactly, the typical Christian truth.”

            Without evidence it’s typical christian claims, nowhere near true. Especially since a lot of it has been proven to be wrong, and even forgeries. Look up historical evidence bud, it beats unproven and manipulated scriptures

          • Robert Driskell

            It is you who have been duped, there are good solid answers for all your questions (I think you know that, I hope you know that); however, you have chosen to reject God and embrace atheism. That’s your choice. But you can’t say you didn’t know what you really should do. I thank you for the opportunity to discuss with you.

      • Bill Spivey

        Robert, you can’t seriously think that only believers have deeply considered what you called “eternal destination”. Death is real no matter who you are or what you believe, and no one can claim to have knowledge of it. Do remember that as you cling to your idea of life eternal that there is absolutely NO evidence for it anywhere outside your own mind. You probably don’t like that if you value poetic-thinking and faith over reason, reality and evidence-based thought. Suit yourself of course, but I favor recognition of the “Law of Least Astonishment”: Most of the time, in any situation, what actually happens is the least astonishing alternative.

        • Robert Driskell

          No Bill, I didn’t say that I think no one else has deeply considered “eternal destination”, I asked you if you have. I sincerely hope you haven’t hardened your heart so hard that you won’t even consider any other option than the one you’ve chosen. And the ‘no evidence’ stance doesn’t hold water: you’ve simply chosen the option that allows you to ‘do your own thing’ instead of bowing down to the Creator. But, as I’ve said, everyone does have a choice. Thanks for commenting.

          • Jason Rivera

            “And the ‘no evidence’ stance doesn’t hold water: you’ve simply chosen
            the option that allows you to ‘do your own thing’ instead of bowing down
            to the Creator. But, as I’ve said, everyone does have a choice.
            Thanks for commenting.”

            That response provides no evidence therefore it’s back full circle to being skeptical your empty claims, like anything else that has no evidence to back it.

            This “hardened your heart” thing is just another way of avoiding the “evidence” challenge.

            If there were evidence for this god that you claim exists (or any of the 2700 other gods for that matter), there would be no reason to have faith it is real.

            Yet, when you pick one over the other, you are basically picking one heaven and many hells from other religions.

            Now how can anyone be in one heaven for believing one gods exists without evidence and yet be in many hells for not believing in the others?

            Guess what? It goes back to which one has evidence,
            which in reality is none.

            Like you said earlier, only one can be right, but they can all be wrong.

            So the full circle is back to you.

            No evidence that is tangible, conclusive and repeatable?

            Then there is no reason to believe in it.

          • Robert Driskell

            Jason,

            If you won’t listen to the evidence in your heart nor acknowledge the evidence all around you, then you’ve made your choice. “…because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse” (Romans 1:19). You don’t really want evidence, you want to be justified…you want to feel you aren’t guilty of sinning against God. The only way that can happen is if you trust Jesus Christ as your Saviour. We all have a choice. Thank you for commenting.

          • Jason Rivera

            Evidence in my heart?

            Every religion says the same.

            And uh… hearts do no thinking they pump blood…

            You should try using your brain instead sometime,
            it’s alot more effective

          • Robert Driskell

            Thank you for your playground rebuttal. I have been thoroughly put in my place. Thank you for commenting.

          • Jason Rivera

            Of course, you have no choice but to call defeat when you try to debate people alot smarter than a book and religion you praise.

            Feel free to believe as you like, but keeping it to yourself would probably the best thing for you in a world of people who are constantly getting smarter and can smell bs a mile away.

          • Robert Driskell

            Jason,
            It is not me who will be your judge. I am only trying to issue a warning and show the way to Salvation. You can choose to reject Jesus or choose to follow Him…it’s a choice each of us makes…even when we think we are making no choice. Thank you for commenting.

          • Jason Rivera

            So no evidence, yet you are threatening me with more bible babble?

            And I’m supposed to be scared?

            That’s like me threatening you with the other hells from other gods that you don’t believe are real. Including the ones invented hundreds of years before yours.

            “It’s
            all about being a good person now. You see, Christians use Hell as a
            way to scare people into believing what they believe. But to believe in
            something just because you’re afraid of the consequences if you dont
            believe in something is no reason to believe in something. Understand?”

            -Gerald Broflovski

          • Robert Driskell

            Like I said…we each choose. There are many websites covering all this much better than I have. If you are truly interested, you have already visited them. If you are not truly interested, then I am wasting my time talking to you (nothing personal). Thank you for commenting.

          • Jason Rivera

            “Like I said…we each choose.”

            Over “gods plan?”

            It’s looking like you are just making everything fit your views.
            Your style of thinking isn’t effective in the real world my friend. Just reminding you.

            “There are many websites covering all this much better than I have”

            Yet, none of them provide testable, and conclusive evidence, only claims such as yours. So what?

            “If you are truly interested, you have already visited them.”

            Already have, hence why I am able to debunk your bible babble with more bible babble..

            “If you are not truly interested, then I am wasting my time talking to you (nothing personal).”

            ^ Just another passive aggressive comment to admit that yo have no evidence for your claims.

            You are only wasting your time.

            Let’s not forget that many many many people will read this understand why they shouldn’t believe you.

            But thank you for being so respectful about it.

          • Robert Driskell

            Oh, I have no doubt that many people will read this. Hopefully, they will think long and hard about these issues. I don’t get brownie points for looking like I’m the winner of any of these discussions. I am only doing what God wants me to do. As for being respectful, there is no reason to be otherwise. Thank you for commenting

          • Jason Rivera

            “Hopefully, they will think long and hard about these issues.”

            Why, when simple evidence that is testable and conclusive is all that is needed.

            “I don’t get brownie points for looking like I’m the winner of any of these discussions.”

            By the looks of what people will read, I disagree.

            “I am only doing what God wants me to do”

            Without evidence, it’s looking more like what you want to do for this god not the other way around. How do you know you are not serving the wrong god? No answer needed since you will not provide evidence for any of the 2700. Conclusion?

            You are choosing the god you want to believe in.

            “As for being respectful, there is no reason to be otherwise.”

            Agreed

          • Robert Driskell

            Yes, Jason, I have made my choice. And, over the period of 30 years, He has made it increasingly clear that He is there, that He loves you and me, and that His offer of salvation is the only offer that will matter in the long run. You have the right (the God-given right, I might add) to mock Him, reject Him, and otherwise ignore Him, but He has made it abundantly clear to us (whether we admit it or not) that He is God. Thank you for the discussion.

          • Jason Rivera

            “Yes, Jason, I have made my choice.”

            No you didn’t according to the book, it was all your god’s plan.

            So, is everything god’s plan, or does everyone have free will?

            You can’t answer that until first being able to prove that your god is real out of the other 2700.

            ” He has made it increasingly clear that He is there, that He loves you
            and me, and that His offer of salvation is the only offer that will
            matter in the long run. You have the right (the God-given right, I
            might add) to mock Him, reject Him, and otherwise ignore Him, but He has
            made it abundantly clear to us (whether we admit it or not) that He is
            God.”

            Without evidence that is testable and conclusive, you only made another claim.

            This whole debating thing is clearly not for you Rob

          • Robert Driskell

            Maybe not, Jason, but I did present you with the Gospel, and that’s the important part. The ball’s in your court. It’s all between you and God now. Thank you for your comments.

          • Jason Rivera

            ” You can choose to reject Jesus or choose to follow Him”

            Wrong, your bible says it was all planned by your god.

            Pslams 139:16

            All the good, bad and super immoral have been because of your god (if you believe he exists)

          • Robert Driskell

            Actually, all the evil, bad, and super immorality in the world is because humans choose to act that way. We can also choose to obey our Creator, trust Jesus for salvation, and become new people. Thanks for commenting.

          • Jason Rivera

            “Actually, all the evil, bad, and super immorality in the world is because humans choose to act that way. We can also choose to obey our Creator, trust Jesus for salvation, and become new people.”

            They would only be able to act how they want if there was free will and a god. Unfortunately for you, the god you choose supposedly planned it all before you were even born.
            That means that anything you do, is not what you chose to do, but what a puppet master is doing to you (if you believe in that god without evidence)

            Yet, another failed reply by Reobert

          • Jason Rivera

            “You don’t really want evidence, you want to be justified…”

            The christians way of ignoring the evidence that they should be showing … Smh

          • Robert Driskell

            Have you actually stopped replying long enough to think about what you, and I, are saying? Thank you for commenting.

          • Jason Rivera

            “We all have a choice.”

            Do we?

            But it says in the bible that everything is your god’s plan…

            Who are you to change the already changed up story?

          • Robert Driskell

            Now, you’re a biblical scholar?

          • Jason Rivera

            Do you have a better response than a strawman?

            Like evidence maybe?

            Don’t be mad at me because I know more about your own book and religion than you do.

          • Robert Driskell

            I’m not mad at you Jason, I’m sorry for you. You have the opportunity to be forgiven of your sins and gain eternal life, but you reject it.

          • Brian K

            You must be new to Patheos, right? Have you been to the atheist section at all? Because we spend a depressing amount of time debunking the myth that non theists just want an excuse to sin.

          • Robert Driskell

            I’m sorry you’re depressed. Maybe you should reconsider your position. Thank you for commenting.

          • Jason Rivera

            Smh, another passive aggressive response from someone who is just upset that we don’t believe in his bs.

            Robert, you are not impressing anyone with tired arguments and strawmans

      • Brian K

        “Nice eternal soul you’ve got there. It would be a shame if anything happened to it.”

        • Robert Driskell

          Thank you for your comment. Whatever it meant?!?!?!?

          • Brian K

            I’m implying that your response was a thinly veiled threat.

          • Robert Driskell

            Really, how so?

          • Brian K

            Because you’re proceeding from a theology that says billions of people will suffer eternally. When you say “everyone should consider eternity”, the obvious implication is that we need to right our beliefs, or else.

          • Robert Driskell

            Stating biblical truth, Brian. So, are you implying that anyone who quotes the Bible is now guilty of ‘hate speech’ or some such thing? Thanks for commenting.

          • Jason Rivera

            “So, are you implying that anyone who quotes the Bible is now guilty of ‘hate speech’ or some such thing?”

            NO. Maybe if you read his reply before commenting you would know exactly what he is saying Robert

          • Robert Driskell

            Thank you, Jason

          • Brian K

            Right, “stating truth”, in the same way that a mob shakedown is just stating truth when they say you might want to pay the boss if you don’t want your legs broken.

          • Robert Driskell

            Brian, Let me be clear about what I am saying (therefore minimizing the chance of misunderstandings); humanity has sinned against a holy God, we will be judged by Him, He has nevertheless provided a way to be forgiven, that way is through faith in Jesus Christ. Each of us choose to accept or reject that offer. I hope you will accept it. I think you would have more fun in a different discussion. Thank you for commenting.

          • Brian K

            OK then. So we’re clear: you are saying if I do not come to faith in Jesus Christ, then I will be damned for eternity. Right?

            http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/threat?s=t

          • Robert Driskell

            Brian,
            That is exactly what the Bible declares. Therefore, if God is real and the Bible is true, you have a choice to make (as we all do). Thank you for commenting.

          • Brian K

            I have a choice to make under threat of damnation. That’s not a choice, it’s a shakedown.

          • Nemo

            There is no choice. If you don’t buy the empty threats of the Bible, then of course you have absolutely no reason to adopt the dogma of the Bible. If you believe that the Bible’s threats are real, then you will of course comply with the dogma, er, uh, accept a loving relationship.

          • Jason Rivera

            “humanity has sinned against a holy God”

            Lacks evidence

            “we will be judged by Him”

            Lacks evidence

            “He has nevertheless provided a way to be forgiven, that way is through faith in Jesus Christ.”

            Lacks evidence

            “Each of us choose to accept or reject that offer.”

            How is that if in the buybull everything is god’s plan before we are even born?

            ” I hope you will accept it”

            It’s not up to us, but up to the god you claimed is true based on his bible verses where he says he planned everything.

            ” I think you would have more fun in a different discussion.”

            How do you know were not having fun here?
            Or is it you that you should be in a different discussion because you can’t seem to overcome rational people’s replies?

          • Nemo

            When the Bible says that Yahweh should be worshipped and praised for torturing people, yeah I’d say that’s pretty hateful.

  • Guest

    A fallacy known as “circular reasoning”

    “The buybull is true because the buybull says it’s true.”

    So does every other holybook.

    I hope a day comes where people aren’t so gullible and naive
    to believe everything that is not based on reality and contradicts everything
    science has proven.

    Scaring people with threats of eternal torture for not believing, making children read a book filled with rape, murder, pedophilia, incest, and more.

    Keep this christian garbage in the 1st century where is should have stayed and died.

  • Jason Rivera

    A fallacy known as “circular reasoning”

    “The buybull is true because the buybull says it’s true.”

    So does every other holybook.

    It proves nothing

  • Robert Driskell

    One final post and I’ll be moving on. I want to thank many of you with whom I’ve
    interacted, I hope I haven’t seemed uncivil toward anyone, that was not my
    intention. As I mentioned earlier, if one person recognizes and responds to the Truth [“Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me” (John 14:6 NASB)], my efforts have not been wasted.

    My intention was simply to present the Gospel and to motivate a bit of thinking about its ramifications. I’ve been a Christian long enough to have developed thick skin; not because I’m tough but because I’ve been shown repeatedly that God is real, God is good, and He is faithful to take care of those who trust Him.

    Humanity was created to love God (Matthew 22:27; Mark 12:30; Luke 10:27). The Bible says that mankind has rebelled against a holy God; thus
    separating ourselves from the fullness of His love (Romans 3:23). By sinning against Him, we are condemned under His judgment (II Thessalonians 1:9).

    However, God did not leave us in this situation but provided the means whereby we may be reunited with Him. He sent His Son, Jesus Christ, to die on a cross for our sins (I John 2:2, 4:10). This offer of forgiveness is open to anyone (Romans 6:23).

    “…if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes in Him will not be disappointed”” (Romans 10:9-11 NASB).

    I leave you with the words of Moses, “…I have set before you life and death…So choose life in order that you may live…” (Deuteronomy 30:19 NASB).

    May the grace of God fill your hearts and minds.

    • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

      You have done a great job trying to reach the lost. You treated everyone with kindness and respect. God will remember this. You will be blessed. I will try to learn from you. Sometimes I get harsh with Atheist. Thank you !!

      • Robert Driskell

        LadyFreeBird,
        I wanted to thank you for your comment…sincerely. I just wanted to say that your comment encouraged me and motivated me. It encourage me because sometimes I get to feeling pretty alone on these message boards and it motivated me to continue to have a loving attitude no matter how heated the discussion gets. God has truly given you the gift of encouragement. May He bless you richly. And again, THANK YOU.
        Yours in Christ,
        Robert

        • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

          Thank You. You too have encouraged me as well.
          Your sister in Christ. Kandy

  • John Jones

    Why are there 30,000 different Christian religions who read the “Bible” of which there are over 100 versions just in English http://tyndalearchive.com/scriptures/index.htm and can come to so many different conclusions? Is it because god didn’t make his message clear enough? Or is it because everyone reads (and wrote) these books to confirm what they already believe(d)? Every religion has its “holy texts” which they claim are true while all the others are false and man-made. Curious that this author only cites 1 particular book to make his points and ignores all the others. Just because something is written in a book does not make it true.

  • IAN RAMSAY

    Peace. Thy Christianity is an idolatry in which the bible replaces the golden calf. Only a moron could read the bible and not see the inconsistencies: two conflicting creation stories, attending number of angels at the Resurrection [0,1, or 2?], number of Jesse’s sons [8-I Sam., 7-I Chron.] and so forth. Only Americans could deny overwhelming scientific evidence. Thy religion is not Christianity; it is Bibleism. True Christianity is a religion of empathy and peace in which the principles that Jesus taught are more important than blind faith in an idol made of paper. Thee might examine Quaker spirituality or Lutheran/Anglican exegetical studies. It’s not the words; its the principles under and around the words. Even atheism is more loving and spiritual than thy idolatrous Bibleism. Perhaps if you could read Hebrew and Greek . . . The bible is truth because the Bible says it is truth? Give it up. Does thee see how thy belief system is more that Pharisee than Jesus? We will hold thee in the Light.