Ten More Cliches Christians Should Avoid

Ten More Cliches Christians Should Avoid July 9, 2012

To learn about Christian Piatt’s new project, “A**hole Christian Survival Guide,” and to pre-order your copy, CLICK HERE. The humorous illustrated book will include these and other Christian cliches, games and a lot more. 

After writing up my first list of Ten Cliches Christians Should Never Use, some folks wrote me with other suggestions. After simmering on it for a while, I came up with a second list of ten to supplement the first.

And as there was some confusions from a handful of fellow Christians about the intent of the articles. These are not intended to tell you to believe or not believe a certain set of things. Christians have a Public Relations problem; that much is self-evident. So in as much as I can respond to that, I want to offer these as advice on how to change the way we approach people about our faith.

On to the next ten cliches for Christians to avoid…

  1. Love the sinner, hate the sin. This is a backhanded way to tell someone you love them, at best. It also ignores the command by Jesus not to focus on the splinter in our neighbors’ eyes while a plank remains in our own. Bottom line: we all screw up, and naming others’ sin as noteworthy while remaining silent about your own is arrogant.
  2. The Bible clearly says…Two points on this one. First, unless you’re a Biblical scholar who knows the historical and cultural contexts of the scriptures and can read them in their original languages, the Bible isn’t “clear” about much. Yes, we can pick and choose verses that say one thing or another, but by whom was it originally said, and to whom? Cherry-picking scripture to make a point is called proof-texting, and it’s a theological no-no. Second, the Bible can be used to make nearly any point we care to (anyone want to justify slavery?), so let’s not use it as a billy club against each other.
  3. God needed another angel in heaven, so He called him/her home. Another well-meaning but insensitive thing to say. This assumes a lot about what the person you’re speaking to believes, and it also ignores the grief they’re going through. The person who died is, well, dead. Focus on the needs of the living right in front of you.
  4. Are you saved? I’ve addressed the theological understandings of hell and judgment in other pieces, but regardless of whether you believe in hell, this is a very unattractive thing to say. First, it implies a power/privilege imbalance (ie, “I’m saved, but I’m guessing you’re not based on some assumptions I’m making about you), and it also leaps over the hurdle of personal investment and relationship, straight into the deep waters of personal faith. If you take the time to learn someone’s story, you’ll like learn plenty about what they think and believe in the process. And who knows? You might actually learn something too, rather than just telling others what they should believe.
  5. The Lord never gives someone more than they can handle. What about people with mental illness? What about people in war-torn countries who are tortured to death? What about the millions of Jews murdered in the Holocaust? And this also implies that, if really horrible things are happening to you, God “gave” it to you. Is this a test? Am I being punished? Is God just arbitrarily cruel? Just don’t say it.
  6. America was founded as a Christian nation. Honestly, I find it hard to believe we are still having this conversation, but here we are. Anyone with a cursory understanding of history understands that we were founded on the principle of religious liberty – not just the liberty to be a Christian – and that many of the founding fathers explicitly were not Christian. Thomas Jefferson, anyone?
  7. The Bible says it; I believe it; that settles it. If ever there was a top-shelf conversation killer this is it. You’re not inviting any opinion, response, thought or the like. You’re simply making a claim and telling others to shut up. Also, I’ve yet to meet someone who takes EVERY WORD of the Bible literally. Everyone qualifies something in it, like the parts about keeping kosher, wearing blended fibers, stoning adulterers, tossing your virgin daughters into the hands of an angry mob…you get the point.
  8. It was Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve. This is a little “joke” some Christians use to assert the superiority of opposite-sex unions over same-sex ones. But here’s the thing: if you really believe the first and only two people on the planet at one point were Adam and Eve, who did their kids marry and have babies with? This, my friends, is incest (happened again if you believe Noah’s family members were the only survivors of the great flood). This just demonstrates the selective moral blindness many of us Christian have and seriously compromises our credibility about anything else.
  9. Jesus was a Democrat/Republican. Seems to me that, when pressed, Jesus was happy to keep church and state separate. Remember the whole thing about giving to Caesar what is Caesar’s, and giving to God what is God’s? And if we choose to, we can pick and choose anecdotes to support Jesus being a liberal (care for the poor, anti death penalty) or a conservative (challenge government authority, practice sexual purity). Jesus was Jesus, and if it was as simple as pegging him to one of two seriously flawed contemporary forms of government, I can promise you I would not be a Christian.
  10. (Insert sin here) is an abomination in the eyes of God. Almost always, when this phrase is invoked, it has something to do with sex or sexuality. Seldom do folks care to mention that divorce and remarriage is in that list of so-called abominations. Also, there are several words translated in English Bibles as ‘abomination,’ many of which don’t imply the sort of exceptionalism that such a word makes us think of today. And while we’re on the thread of things scripture says God “hates,’ let’s consider this from Proverbs:

These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him: A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among  brethren.

I’m going to go out on a limb and propose that telling someone that who they are or what they are doing is an abomination to God is tantamount to sowing discord among your brothers and sisters. And this, according to the text above is itself an abomination.

For part three in this series, click here: Nine (Final) Christian Cliches to Avoid

Read Part Four here: Ten Antidotes to Christian Cliches

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  • Mark Sandlin

    But for the grace of God, there go I.

  • Amy

    #10, oh yes. I wonder I the Christians fighting against by marriage were that outspoken about divorce. It seems to me that divorce is much more common than gay marriage, yet we turn a blind eye to that and attack just one group of people.

    • Theophile

       Hi Amy,
       I agree with you’re sentiment, however, let me ask you a question: What was the first “sexual sin” and what was God’s first rebuke to man? ….
      God’s 1st rebuke was to Adam: Because you hearkened unto the voice of your wife. God created Adam, walked and talked in the garden with him, and it was Adam that was told not to eat of the tree of good/evil, Adam that named the animals, etc….all before Eve was taken out of him. We can only conclude that Adam was the one that “brought Eve up to speed” on all he had experienced and about God, and the “rule” of not eating from the tree.
       In the prophets, God likens His people to His wife, He declares “listening to others, after knowing Him, and practicing their ways, is harlotry and whoredom in His sight”. Adam had known the rules of God, but “believed” the fallen part of himself. We can conclude that Paul’s doctrine “The head of the man is Christ(the LORD who walked in the garden with Adam), the head of the wife is her husband”, comes from this.
       Have you considered the strange coincidence of chapters 19 of both Genesis, and Judges, describe a democratic(majority(mob)rule) okay with homosexuality cities(societies)? The coincidence is it was 1919 that the 19th “equal suffrage”, right after the (6+6+6) 18th? By 1929 we were in a depression, We were able to repeal the Id!ot!c 18th, but were left with organized crime it created, and the FBI(ran by, you know) created also by the “need” the 18th “created”.  The 19th is irreversiable.
       My first experience of politics was hearing my father talk about voting before he left for work, after he left I asked my mom who she was voting for. She informed me: “I am going to cancel your fathers vote”. That said it all, we have confusion! The 1900’s have blinded us with science, and The forced hearkening by America’s Adams to the voice of their wives!
       The first sexual sin is debatable, the sons of God(fallen angels) going into the daughters of men? Or hearkening unto your wife over God?
       I am BTW no misogynist, I believe that old serpent has his battle ground 1st with the woman, that’s his MO, in the garden, the daughters of men, lot’s wife, Abraham’s wife, Jacob’s wives, David’s Bathsheba, Solomon’s wives, Ahab with Jezebel….need I go on? There are only two kind of women according to Proverbs. One is described at the beginning(I am NOT talking about wisdom), and the other at the end. BTW the virtuous married woman with children seems to have allot more goin on than most today’s liberated one’s don’t you think?

      • KaeylynHunt

        No actually,I DON’T,because there are MANY”Liberated”Women who DO have Children&ARE married.Good GRIEF Charlie Brown,get yer head outta yer ARSE.That IS the WHOLE Point,is that we have the RIGHT to CHOOSE the how,when&why’s of our Female existence.We do NOT have to be an either or,and THAT IS Mysogyny to think you do.Many of us have Good men who actually UNDERSTAND this Concept&don’t feel the least bit threatened that we’ve actually come out of the Stone Age in what Women”should be like”.Only those still firmly entrenched with Fred Flintstone would even think such drivel.In other words,you fellas can get off the couch&make us a sammich too.BTW,I like mine with Mustard,so,skeedaddle will ya?I’m Hungry.Sidenote:if you actually ARE an adherent to the Theology of which you speak,get lost with all the Numerology,it’s”Witchcraft ya know&yours is WOEFULLY Inaccurate.If I didn’t know better,I’d say you’ve been playing with Masons!you sir,have been busted,for Troll-la-la-ism!

        • Theophile

           Hi Kaeylyn,
           Was God incorrect in His analogy of His people “As His wife”, in that they should obey Him, as a wife her husband? Is God’s own analogy “Fred Flinstonian”?
           If I were to use shallow numerology like verse numbers as harbingers, It would be the 3:16 signs you see in praise of Tim T at football games: Check Revelation 3:16 for the conclusion.

          • Slade

            Not incorrect.  Just made up.  God doesn’t exist, and the magic book was written by men (hence the misogyny).

            Your circular argument (god exists and said X because it is in the bible) is ridiculous and tiresome.

        • You might want to invest in a new keyboard. The one you’re using appears to be malfunctioning.

      • Chasjeanw

        Theo, please take your meds.

      • Baby_Raptor

        1) Yes you are misogynist. Your attitude shows very plainly that you think very little of women, and blame a good chunk of the world’s problems on us. 

        2) Are you kidding? I’m not ragging on any woman’s choice to be a stay at home mother, but they have a better life than me? Maybe by your standards, which are clearly questionable, but…I am NOT property. I AM NOT solely a baby making machine. And I AM NOT to blame for all the world’s issues. And the fact that there are people who still hold the same beliefs as you in Fucking 2012 is really sad. 

  • Pastorsteve

    When I worked as a substance abuse counselor our clients had to do a written assignment reflecting on the spiritual awakening at the heart of recovery from addiction. Often clients would give me pages of Christian cliches. My response was always to ask them to rewrite it, using no cliches at all. Or in our counseling sessions put each cliche into real, everyday language. It usually left people stunned and silent, until they finally admitted that they were using cliches to cover up the fact that they had no real idea how to live the spiritual life. If you can’t say it in plain English, you don’t understand it.

  • Cliffhanger24

    Christian rocks or is that a cliche?

  • Paul Freeman

    Here’s another Cliche Christians should avoid: “Christianity is the only way to God/Heaven”.  Would like to hear you expound on that one.

    • IloMadden

      There are many paths leading to the One God, who is known by many names.

      • Sandim

        Nope….the bible says that Jesus is the ONLY way!

        • IloMadden

          Jesus  didn’t say that.  It was attributed to him by the writer of the Gospel of John who wrote  at least sixty years after Jesus died..  In any case, I believe it means those who follow the examples of how to live, which were modeled by Jesus,  will find God, truth and abundant, everlasting life.  Peace and blessings on your journey..

        • Baby_Raptor

          Good for the Bible. A bunch of different religions say that they’re the only way. What makes yours right?

  • IloMadden


  • Roepete

    The one that always bugs me is, “If you’ve studied the scriptures…..”    

    Yes, enlighten me as to what the Bible has to say.    😉

  • Ken Shull

    Your first point — in my experience that phrase is used to admonish Christians in settings such as a worship service and Sunday school to love people, regardless of whatever they have done.  I have never heard it directed at a person to criticize him/her because of what the person has done.  It is a very useful reminder that we are all sinners and we are to love everyone.  We hate the sin, even if we do it.

    • S Pierce

       I have heard it very specifically applied toward homosexuals…to the point that they almost expect it from certain Christians. It is a way of judging and saying you are not judging in the instances I have heard it.

      • Theophile

         Hi SPierce,
         The application is formed in the homosexuals mind: They identify with “being gay”, they are there gay, Pride paraders say “God made me this way”, they have convinced themselves/been convinced they “are their sin”.  It is then important to point out the distinctions between a sin that seems outside oneself, like theft. And one of becoming one with. One might steal, feel remorseful and never steal again. He is not a “thief” unless he continues indulging in stealing. Telling a homosexual to “repent of themselves” is counterproductive. The fact is fornication, whether it be adultery or what ever, is part of the doctrine of Balaam and Jezebel in Christs 7 letters. Rev. 2 & 3. Seperating the sinner from the sin is the first step in the sinners mind to see they can turn and be free of it. As long as you identify as your sin, that ain’t gonna happen.

        • Baby_Raptor

          Homosexuality is natural. We *were* born this way. Look at the evidence, preferably without your blinders on. 

        • Slade

          You must be the life of parties.

      • Wonder

         more recently it’s had a specific application to gay people, but really we’ve been using this little cliche to commit passive aggression against anybody who doesn’t conform to our narrow set of expectation for oh, decades, at least.

    • Baby_Raptor

      You must be hiding under a rock then. That’s the default argument against bigotry RE homosexuals. And it always comes from the ones who think we should be killed. 

  • Theophile

     Hi Christian,
    #1 love the sinner enough to not want to hurt their feelings, by saying something, so they continue in there path to destruction?
    #2 Original language? seriously? Better not even read it right?
    #3 God needed another angel? Where do we learn we turn into angels?
    #5 Revelation 3:19 For those I love I chasten and reprove…
    #6 Jefferson’s declaration states: Life, liberty, pursuit of happiness, and our countries right to exist, all come from a creator God. Jefferson had read Foxes Martyrs, and the term “Christian” in his day, meant Roman Catholic, Pope worshiper.
    #7 The Bible is our authority in that it contains words of God, it also contains words of men too, like: Solomon and Saul/Paul. But if it’s not our greatest authority outside of the Holy spirit, who is? The Pope?, the latest mega church leader?, Christian Piatt? Rather than the shallow; “Bible says it”,  it is much better to say “Who” said it quoted in “such and such book/chapter in the Bible, and whether it is considered scripture(Moses and the prophets).
    #8 Whoa incest! but wait a minute, Adam and Eve had perfect DNA, they lived many centuries, it wasn’t until those “sons of God(fallen angels) corrupted the DNA line(requiring the flood) and subsequent repopulation, with Noah’s step daughters most likely carrying corrupted DNA, that made incest a problem.
    #9 Applause for that one!
    #10 The list of Abominations to God given by Solomon(read 1Kings 11:1-11) is very different from the one God gave Ezekiel(chapter8). (vs. 5)The image of jealousy, a phallic obelisk at Gods sanctuary(which evolved into steeples). (vs. 11)Burning incense lighting candles to idols in shrines. (vs. 14)Weeping for Tammuz, whose “t” shaped symbol(hot cross buns, and crosses) was around long before 2000 years ago. (vs. 16 the MOST abominable) Worshiping the sun facing it as it rises, with backs to God’s sanctuary in what appears to be an Easter sunrise service. In Christ’s 7 letters to the churches (Rev 2 & 3) we see He hates the doctrine of Balaam(eating things sacrificed to idols(all things are lawful doctrine), and fornication. He also hates the doctrine of the Nicolatines(rule over the Laity, Um.. taking it apart in Greek) which roughly translates to “clergy rule”, Um…God had that system already at the temple and we see how that worked out. These 3 mentioned by Christ, in His letters include sexual sin, fornication. Unless fornication can be shown to be not of a sexual nature there with that ability to read original languages, can it?
     Christian, The Bible can be understood, but it takes stripping away all the false doctrines built over the last 1700 years to do so. Doctrines like Apostolic Succession/Authority, doctrines like “you have to know ancient Hebrew/post Babylonian Hebrew/ancient Greek/ancient Latin/Arabic to understand an English translation”, or “only trained clergy can rightly extract the true meaning(Nicolatine) because the Laity is toooo ignorant to read”.

  • MikeC

    I agree with every cliche on both lists, and the assertion that Christianity has a PR problem. But we also need to be careful about swinging to the opposite extreme and trying to hide the things about Christianity others may find unpalatable.

    I would also offer that these articles appear to be written with a degree of self-righteousness that ironically may offend the intended audience in the same way the author is offended at the cliches. Indeed, he will receive affirming pats on the back from the like minded, but the confrontational, rant-style list may very well turn off the people he wishes to reach.

    • DanH.

      Indeed, well stated. I was searching for the words for this thought. You’ve done it for me. Needless to say I agree with MikeC.

    • Wonder

       I don’t think there’s anything confrontational or ranty about either list, but your, “concern” is noted

    • Marie

      I agree!

  • Jen

    love this! (and the 10 before it). i shared this on my wall, and have lit the traditionalists knickers aflame. for that, i thank you.

    probably my biggest cliched pet peeve amongst christians is the idea that we, christians in america, are heinously persecuted. we’re always being done wrong by secular organizations and dismantled and attacked for our beliefs in every way possible. we even have a ridiculous name for it– a Holy war. really. america. majority of the populous as self-described christians. Persecuted in a HOLY WAR. 

    oy vey.

    • Mary

      These people are trying to take over the country and FORCE their ideology on everyone else and they think THEY are the ones being persecuted???  Bring in the violins…I won’t be listening.

      • honeybeemee

        Same way that people of certain sexual orientations try to heap themselves and their ideology on those that don’t agree…all people at some time or another, for some cause or another, try to shove their stuff down others’ throats…maybe that is just “human nature”…

  • Hartporter

    Regarding “Hate the sin, not the sinner,” I usually encounter this applied to homosexuals.  What it really means is: “I loathe you for being who God made you, but I am using this stupid expression to let myself off the hook.”  As soon as I hear these words, I know the speaker is a waste of life, and end the conversation.

    • popsk

      Sorry, but I refuse to accept gays are made that way by God. I also believe homosexuality is a sin….and I won’t apologize for that stance. I DO believe that God doesn’t “rate” sin….and that homosexuality is no worse, in God’s eyes, than lying or pride….or perhaps gluttony, pre-marital or extra-marital sex……things many Christians dabble in…..

      • ScottF

        Doesn’t really matter what you “refuse to accept.” It’s a fact. Deal with it.

        • popsk

          It’s far from “fact”…..believe what you want, but the jury is still out on that one. Perhaps you should check the dictionary for the word “fact” before you use it so carelessly….
          Sent from my iPad

          • Baby_Raptor

            No, you should do some research. It’s a widely accepted and proven fact that Homosexuality IS natural. We WERE made this way by your God, if you wish to phrase it such. The jury hasn’t been out for awhile. 

          • popsk

            That’s only an accepted “fact” by the ay community and those who intend to force people like me into silence with the law. Many geneticists and scientists disagree with you…..
            Sent from my iPad

          • Slade

            Can  you please provide references from reputable sources?
            At some point scientists will likely identify the genetic markers or brain chemistry that make someone a homosexual.  When that happens, all of the xian bigots (like yourself) will be no better than cross-burning Klu Klux Klan racists (another organization rooted in xian fundamentalism).  So I guess you are praying scientists don’t succeed at this endeavor.

          • popsk

            Wow! Do you talk to your mama with that mouth? Why resort to name-calling? What happened to tolerance for other peoples beliefs?
            Sent from my iPad

          • Slade

            But if you think homosexuality is just a “belief”, then aren’t you at fault for not having tolerance?

            I freely admit that I have no tolerance for bigotry – I fight it on every front, wherever I find it.

          • popsk

            Who says I have no tolerance for gays? They can choose to live however they want…….just ont attempt to shove it down my throat as “normal”…
            Sent from my iPad

          • Slade

            So you support marriage equality?

          • popsk

            Personally, I don’t CARE if gays marry…..just don’t force me to accept their chosen lifestyle as “normal”….or make my objection to it “hate speech”.
            Sent from my iPad

          • popsk

            What did I say? Do I need to draw you a picture?

            Sent from my iPad

          • honeybeemee

            Wow….and you want people to be TOLERANT of HOW you choose to live? Doesn’t sound like much tolerance coming from YOUR side…

          • Klaus A. Wittner

            It’s not common, but a percentage of people are born with XXY chromosomes, giving them female predisposition and behavior while born with male sex organs. Some XXY babies are born with both sets of sex organs or female organs. People are born YYX as well with the same types of recombination of characteristics. Human genetics is not perfect or cut and dry. This is a simple fact of statistics of hospital births. Human sexuality is not determined at birth.

          • Andrew Patton

            The Bible speaks of people who were born incapable of marriage. The people of whom you speak fall in that category. God has prepared a mission for them that is more precious than having a family, if they are willing to accept it. It will come with much pain and sorrow, but also much joy.

        • Joseph Elisha Venenga

          human fact boy, oh boy……..great words considering we rewrite the same science, history books, and biology books every year in our colleges.. How many times has history been edited now? How many times has science said ooops were wrong it is really this,…no wait its this……you know….it was believed at one point bleeding out someone cured them of disease and that gram crackers were a cure for masturbation..and also that nothing in the human body could regenerate…oh i could go on…..it was even believed at one time the world was flat because the almighty science said so!!!!!!! Lets see….what else…


          so yeah let me tell you…Im going to trust people who believe in nothing but what their selfish eyes see instead of what their hearts tell them. “smh”……

          In college you learn how stupid you really are, and let me tell you..As an engineering major its pretty ignorant….that whole third grade reading level your average person is on must be great!!!

          listen to me and listen well…… It really dose not matter what you consider fact my friend for the truth will be made known at the correct time and Ill tell you that is SOON…..all of the knowledge of this world is garbage as are what 99% of people hold dear. It will all be destroyed…….what matters is what god says for he is the judge of every man and woman. What he says GOES


          now advise from the wise. listen to this woman.

      • Orljustin

         ” I refuse to accept gays are made that way by God” – I thought god was in charge of everything?  Or is this one of those selective things, where acceptance would change everything you believe in?

        • guest

          We live in a broken world as a result of our own inherently evil selves.  Our broken world is a result of our sin.  Sin takes many forms.  God didn’t create our world to be broken.  He gave us freedom to choose him or not to choose him.  Whether or not you believe that people are “born gay” or “become gay”, it’s a result of living in a broken world.  Just as mental illness is, just as disease is.  Just as abortion and genocide and all the pain you can list, is.  God is apart from sin.  We do it to ourselves.  He’s our ONLY saving grace!  Whether you see homosexuality as a sin or not.  Whether you are a homosexual or not, by “birth” or by “choice”, God is STILL your only saving grace! 

          • Hmmm. Are you saying that mental illness and disease are the result of having sinned? And is homosexuality a mental illness? You are making a lot of assumptions there. It sounds like you are blaming the victim here.

          • honeybeemee

            Homosexuality has been noted as a mental illness, but since it is now seen as “normal” and if one says it’s not, they can be accused of being a bigot or looked at as speaking “hate speak”, it has been removed from the DSM…

          • WilmRoget

            You’ve misrepresented the situation. Homosexuality was ‘noted’ actually, denigrated as a mental illness, at a time when psychology was derived more from cultural bias than science. As it grew into being a science, as mental health was researched scientifically, the evidence demonstrated that homosexuality is not a pathological condition.

            Ironically, the criteria for determining if something is an illness indicates that the bias against homosexuals is pathological in nature, a combination of targeted social depravity disorder and delusion.

          • Anon213

            you are a moron. don’t have any children. An agent will arrive at your home shortly to revoke your breeding privileges.

        • popsk

          God IS in charge of everything, but He created man with a free will. That means that no matter WHAT God desires for us, we have the ability to stray from His perfect will, and do our own thing. That’s what sin is…..disobedience toward God. Homosexuality is a sin….being disobedient to what God wants. However, homosexuality is no worse a sin than extra-marital affairs, lying, cheating, stealing, etc. Again, as I said before, there are sins that “Christians” dabble in, and things “Christians” tend to overlook. I don’t believe in treating gays bad….the very few I’ve met have been good, decent people. I know there are militant ones, though, who I’d have difficulty with….the ones who are determined to make it illegal for me to voice my opinions, as I have in this post…..they want to consider voicing such opinions as being “hate speech”. HOGWASH!!
          Sent from my iPad

          • Why is homosexuality a sin?

          • popsk

            Because that’s what the Bible teaches. I believe it’s God’s Word, and I accept that. I didn’t make the rules….God, our Creator, did. It’s up to us to choose to believe, and follow Him, or not.
            Sent from my iPad

          • Slade

            Do you take all the passages of the magic book as the inerrant word of god?  Or do you pick and choose?  Are you wearing cotton and linen at the same time?  BURN SINNER!

          • popsk

            Nope….as a matter of face, I HATE wearing Cotten with ANYTHING,

            Sent from my iPad

          • Slade

            Biblical paradox successfully avoided, or another epic bible fail?

          • Are you aware that at the time it was written that “men who lie with men” was a phrase referring to men who bought the services of young male prostitutes? Because it was. And I’d agree, that’s still wrong.

            But I also have to ask, do you ever eat shrimp? And when was the last time you killed a witch? Should a woman be stoned to death for disobeying her husband? Should a widow be required to marry her dead husband’s brother?

          • There are a lot of crazy rules in the Bible. Why people ignore that is beyond me. I sure would like to hear an explaination on that.

            These rules were made within a certain cultural context. They should not be mistaken as binding forever. That includes homosexuality.

            Jesus said that the Law was summed up as “Love God and love your neighbor as yourself.” That is it. 

          • YES. This exactly.

          • Baby_Raptor

            Because some people find it icky. 

          • There are many times when the “opinions” (not facts) absolutely cross the line to hate speech. I am not talking about the simplistic “love the sinner hate the sin” – no, those are not hateful but they are false and can hurt people more deeply than you know.  But it does cross the line more often than you might understand…


          • To me hate speech is catagorizing an entire group as being evil with no evidence to back it. ” The Bible says”is not evidence. I wish more people would get to know gays rather than judge them. Maybe I have been naive because I have never had a problem with them, but I thought that this stuff had gone the way of the dinosaurs! I guess the whole gay marriage thing has revealed people’s true feelings. It is so sad.

            Even if someone does not call for physical violence the act of calling gays “evil” can lead to violence, so I am not sure I totally agree with you. If I say that all blacks are evil, but stop short of advocating violence, could that incite someone else to kill blacks? Yes.

            Whatever people think about the morality of homosexuality it is still a free country so people should mind their own business. 

          • Slade

            Ah so you know what god wants?!  Let me guess – you determined this from the magic book?!

            You have not reasoned your way into the position you hold, therefore you cannot be reasoned out it.  It’s essentially tin foil hat time.

          • asdf

            Is god so feeble and impotent that he cannot simply change our will? or at the very least, being allegedly omniscient, foresee our straying from his will or whatever? your god doesn’t sound very impressive. Also, the “xian” word means “christian”.

          • popsk

            God COULD change our will….then we’d be mindless robots. He allows us free will….it’s OUR choice whether we accept Him or not. He’s not feeble….and the ONLY ones who feel He’s “unimpressive” are those who are too blind to understand the simplicity of the Gospel.

          • Mr. Black

            It IS hate speech. Telling someone they are going to hell is hateful, no matter if you believe it to be the truth or not.

            Homosexuality has nothing to do with free will, as it is not a condition one wills himself into.

      • Jack Rawlinson

        At what exact age did you choose to become straight? Was it a tough decision? Did you weigh up the pros and cons before you made it?

        • popsk

          Don’t know that I can remember…..but I do know that committing sin is a choice….no matter how one feels….
          Sent from my iPad

          • kellykellykelly

            Do you know what pheromones are? Basically chemicals released from the body to attracted a mate. These chemicals are picked up by the olfactory senses (sense of smell). All animals (human and nonhuman) are unaware of this happening and have absolutely no control of it. Studies on pheromones have shown that gays are attracted to male pheromones and lesbians are attracted to female pheromones. Which means that it is the creation of your God that you claim to know so dang much about. So please do the world a favor and take your prejudice and shove it up where the sun don’t shine because it has no place in Christianity. It’s people like you who give Christians a bad name. K bye

          • popsk

            (yawn) Just another intolerant, anti-Christian hater….

            Sent from my iPad

          • kellykellykelly

             That’s funny that you think I am anti-Christian seeing as I am a Christian Counselor for teens.

          • kellykellykelly

             Also your refusal to accept what I just said and that you are calling me names now is a sign of psychological unrest due to denial and other failing coping mechanisms. Which could be a sign that you are yourself gay and are projecting your anger about not being able to come out onto others. You should get that checked out. Psychological disorders are very common and you should not feel bad that you are suffering from one.

          • popsk

            Hmmmmm….espousing an anti-biblical viewpoint…..now WHAT could possibly have given me the idea you were anti-Christian……
            Sent from my iPad

          • kellykellykelly

             You know God didn’t right the bible and you are obviously not an expert on it’s contents or its various translations and meanings. So… Who’s to say your view isn’t way more anti-christian. And science does not have to be anti-Christian. But science has a place in the government whereas religion doesn’t so therefore your viewpoint doesn’t even matter, and mine does.

          • popsk

            Wow! Well “nah, nah, nah” back atcha!!
            Actually, God DID inspire the Bible, and it’s His Word. You don’t have to like that or accept it….it’s up to you. He gave you free will. However, the Bible is pretty clear about who it’s Writer is.
            As for having a place…..you’d be in direct opposition with the Founding Fathers with your view of government. Perhaps it’s a good thing you didn’t live during their time.

          • Kodie

            Why should anyone trust a believer of lies? 

          • kellykellykelly

             You know I would probably have a different point of view if I was around during their time but seeing as this is 2012 and not 1798 it is perfectly okay for me to not believe at all like they did. That’s the great thing about knowledge, it grows and expands over time and we has humans have to grow to understand the new knowledge that we are presented with. We cannot stay in the past out of fear of change because change will find its way into our lives one way or another. If we are open and accepting of it then it is not as hard to swallow. The fault in our stars is that sometimes the things we grow to love most have to die to make room for new things to fill in their places, that includes beliefs. The belief that gays should not be allowed to marry is quickly dying and soon it will be common practice to have gay families and though that may make some of us uncomfortable we have to accept it and move on.

          • Oswald Carnes

            Jesus gives good head.

      • Just because you refuse it does not make it so.  But be certain I do not need you to apologize for your stance, just please keep your faith out of our government.


        • popsk

          And please keep the government out of my faith.

          Sent from my iPad

          • Baby_Raptor

            You’re the one putting your faith in the government. Stop trying to force everyone to live by your personal views. Get out of politics. Stop trying to play moral police for the rest of the country.

            Problem solved. 

          • popsk

            I have as much right to voice my views and participate in politics as you….according to that pesky document, the US Constitution…….
            Sent from my iPad

          • Slade

            I love the xian persecution complex!  The beleaguered 80% of the population fighting for their right to implement the tyranny of the majority.  What a joke.

          • Christ Follower

            “xian”?  As an educated person myself I did attempt to locate the definition of this word as I am unfamiliar with it and want to be sure that I was understanding your statement.  However, the word that you are attempting you use here is not located in any resource material that I found.  I can only assume at this point (though I truly dislike doing so), that you are attempting to spell “zion” persecution complex.  This of course can then be taken into possible consideration when one takes the time to look up the definition of Zion.  The definition of zion and it’s related synonyms and antonyms as well as the origin of the word have been included in my reply so that you can truly see that I am attempting to understand your statements.  Thank you very much.

            Sincerely, an educated, scientific professional in the medical community and a follower of Christ’s teachings to the very best of my ability  and understanding of scripture as written in context.
            1 The Jewish people : Israel 2 Heaven3. Utopia

            Variants of ZIONZi·on also Si·on

            Origin of ZIONMiddle English Sion, from Old English, citadel in Palestine which was the nucleus of Jerusalem, from Late Latin, from Greek Seiōn, from Hebrew ṢīyōnFirst Known Use: 14th century
            Related to ZION
            Synonyms: above, bliss, elysian fields, Elysium, empyrean, kingdom come, New Jerusalem, paradise, sky, heaven (also Sion)
            Antonyms: Gehenna, hell, Pandemonium, perdition

      • Glen Coco

        I’m no expert on the whole Christianity thing, so I may be wrong on what I’m about to say. This is just my idea on dealing with homosexuality, or any other sin as a Christian. I understand that being gay is a sin. I am not gay, so I don’t know how people are gay, whether it’s because of their surrounding influences, or genetics, or what. I’m not totally positive on how God’s plans work, but I’m pretty sure that if God didn’t want someone to be gay, He wouldn’t make them that way. What I do know for sure, is that no matter what, God loves everyone, and he wants us to do the same. It’s one thing for somebody to sin and you don’t do anything. But it’s another to react in a way so that you’re committing more sins than the person that sinned in the first place. Remember that as a Christian, you’re representing Christ. So be loving and kind always. Before finding the splinter in someone’s eye, get the log out of your own. Sorry, if it seemed like I was trying to continue the argument or start one. Like I said, these are just my ideas they might not be correct.

      • WilmRoget

        “I also believe homosexuality is a sin…”

        And that makes you an enemy of God and humanity, a person with no recognizable moral sense.

        • popsk

          Says YOU…..personally, I take God’s opinion over yours….

          • WilmRoget

            But you don’t take God’s opinion, that’s the problem. Anti-gay theology, the belief ‘homosexuality is sin’ bears evil fruit, people are murdered and raped, burned alive, doused with acid, and all of that evil that is the deliberate fruit of ‘homosexuality is sin’ is proof that ‘homosexuality is sin’ is evil, and does not come from God

            as Jesus taught in Matthew 7:15-23.

            If you really took God’s opinion, you would reject ‘homosexuality is sin’ for the utter and depraved evil that it is.

          • popsk

            Just because people act sinfully to the message doesn’t mean homosexuality is not a sin. God said very clearly, in His Word, that it IS a sin. So is murder, rape, torture, etc. I will NOT dismiss what the Bible says, and what it’s AUTHOR says, just because some people choose to respond to homosexuals in a sinful way.
            Sent from my iPad

          • Baby_Raptor

            Where does the bible say rape is a sin? I’ve read the book cover to cover twice and all I remember is it saying that victims have to marry their rapists and it’s their fault unless they screamed loud enough to be heard.

          • WilmRoget

            “Just because people act sinfully to the message doesn’t mean homosexuality is not a sin.”

            So you reject Jesus Christ then. Because Matthew 7:15-23 is quite clear: evil trees bear evil fruit, and false teachers, like you, are recognized by their fruit. Your fruit, the fruit of everyone who teaches ‘homosexuality is sin’ is evil. You are a false teacher, and the belief you teach, ‘homosexuality is sin’ is utterly evil.

            “God said very clearly, in His Word, that it IS a sin.”

            No. No where does God say that about homosexuality. And no, none of those verses you are thinking of say that.”

            “I will NOT dismiss what the Bible says, and what it’s AUTHOR says,”

            But that is exactly what you are doing.

            And by equating homosexuality with murder and rape and torture, you are slandering hundreds of millions of people. As a slanderer, you are barred from the Kingdom of Heaven, unless you repent.

            You are also proclaiming that you have no, I repeat, no moral sense at all. None. For you cannot tell the difference between something that destroys lives, like murder, or rape, and something that makes people’s lives better, like homosexuality.

            You absolutely and utterly and completely are responding to homosexuals in a sinful way.

          • popsk

            You’re really good at talking in circles, but the Bible’s message is still the same….and it DOES, in more than one place, talk about homosexuality as an abomination. You may not LIKE that….you may not AGREE with that….but the Bible says it, I believe it, and that settles it. Thanks for the discussion, but I’m finished, here. We’ll simply have to agree to disagree.

            Sent from my iPad

          • WilmRoget

            “You’re really good at talking in circles,”

            Your dismissive slander accomplishes nothing, but it communicates that idea that you simply don’t understand what has been presented because of laziness on your part.

            “and it DOES, in more than one place, talk about homosexuality as an abomination.”

            Never. Further, you’ve changed your assertion, proving that both versions are lies. First you had “God said very clearly, in His Word, that it IS a sin” but no where

            no where

            does the phrase “I, the Lord your God declare Homosexuality is a sin”. You lied.

            And now you claim that the Bible, in more than one place, says that homosexuality is an abomination. Yet no where does it say that.

            Now, I know you are raping and misrepresenting two passages from Leviticus, and that by doing so, you bound yourself for judgement to all of the laws in Leviticus. If you don’t have a fence around the edge of your roof, you are damned. If you do not tithe, keep kosher, celebrate the Jubilee, you are damned.

            And the second of the two passages you wield as a wield as weapon to bash GLBTQ people demands the death penalty, and so, by using that verse even through insinuation, you are a mass murderer in thought and word.

            For nothing though, because the passage is not about homosexuals.

            And if you want to prove that it is, you must do one thing absolutely, beyond all doubt:

            locate the mishkap ishshah in the lives of any and every gay man.

            “but I’m finished, here.”

            I wonder if you can live up to that. But of course, you are running away, tail between your legs, because you know you cannot defend your position with facts, logic, Scripture, or reason.

            “.but the Bible says it,”

            No, it does not.

            “I believe it, and that settles it.”

            And that is the sick sin of pride.

    • Pjp62

      a waste of life? pretty harsh I think. 

      • Danigirl

        which really means, if you don’t agree with me, then I will marginalize you. Where’s the benevolence in that? Is that what a Christian heart is?  Confusing to say the least.

        • Stephen Daniele

           PJP62 just to clarify….I was agreeing with you!

        • Kodie

          Thank whatever you people come along to save everyone’s soul from going to a hell that is a figment of your imagination of a story someone told you and you *CHOOSE* to believe it, for selfish reasons. Who is getting marginalized here? A “waste of life” yes, getting in everyone else’s business because you “love” them because “god” told you to “love” them by hating how they are and believing their only salvation comes from believing what you *CHOOSE* to believe when you get into their business. Christians are obnoxious, even if they don’t come out and say “waste of life,” what do you think “hate the sin, love the sinner” is? You are telling someone else they are a waste of life! You are believing they are a waste of life. That their life is your business to straighten out (pun intended), and that being a homosexual is the wrong way to live, whatever mentality you are trying to save them from living their life in order to live the way you *CHOOSE* to believe it should be lived…. I have a feeling I’m not getting through. Good day.

          • BuckE7

            You kind of act like we made it all up.  over 4000 years of History, fullfilled phrophecy, a nation, names and places all documented.  And you’re not happy because you can’t align your genetalia with your mental fantasies. Christians don’t tell you this stuff out of arrogance, but as a warning…but not from us.  When you get “there” and wonder how a loving God could do this to you…You won’t be able to say we didn’t try to warn you.  Sorry  reality doesn’t match with your take on sexuality. I know your tired of being picked on as you see it.  think of it.
            Kodie, you’re kinda pretty.  Hope you get it worked out and find a good man.    

          • Kodie

            Most of it never happened. Jesus is undocumented and may never even have existed. I’m not gay, but there would be nothing wrong with it if I were. The supernatural parts – absolutely invented. Sorry that you believe it’s true, you’ve been fooled. Hope you work it out soon, because you’re a judgmental nasty person.

          • Teresa

             Kodie, you sound like a fairly intelligent person, I am NOT going to personally attack you.  I do believe the scriptures but learned in my youth to not try and “force or ram it down throats” so to speak.  If you are the intelligent person I believe you to be, and with an open mind willing to check out what the “other side” believes, I would recommend reading “The Case for Christ: A Journalist’s Personal Investigation of the Evidence for Jesus” by Lee Strobel.  Actually, I would recommend it for anyone on here to read, not as a way of trying to force others to “view things MY way”, but as a way to encourage discussion, not arguments.  Have a great day!

          • That “You won’t be able to say we didn’t try to warn you” isn’t as compassionate as you might think it is (if ‘Christian Compassion’ was what you were attempting).  Yelling “neener neener, you’ll get yours” is never an embodiment of “love thy neighbor.” 

            Just because the Bible contains historical place-names doesn’t make it a factual document. I’ll bet you don’t believe in Zeus, but Mount Olympus is a place you can visit, you know. 

            Maybe try a new argument? 

    • guest

      except by saying, “as soon as I hear those words, I know the speaker is a waste of life, and end the conversation.”, are you not taking on the very dangerous and caustic attitude that you disagree with?  The, “I loathe you for being who God created you.” attitude?

      • Kodie

         No, it means you’re a waste of my life. My time. My effort. You are how you’re going to be, and I’m going to leave you be that way instead of having this pointless argument with a dolt. You know, if you treated gay people that way, it would be a lot kinder actually.

  • Thank you for this.  Abe Lincoln used to tell a joke, “How many legs does a dog have, if you call a tail a leg?” The answer, of course, was still four, because “calling a tail a leg doesn’t make it so.” There’s a lot of people who call themselves Christian, and one has to wonder if JESUS would consider their lives, behavior, and speech to be “Christ-like,” or the exact opposite.

    I am not sure what happens after this life. But I do know that if a lot of people who call themselves “Christian” are going to “heaven,” I want to go anywhere but there.

  • John E. Smith


    Thanks so much for putting thoughtful words together to express what I have felt for a long time:)

  • zechL

    @Paul Freeman – Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth and the life.  No one comes to the Father except by me.”  Why should we avoid (what you call) a cliche that the one we follow penned?

    • Theophile

       Hi zechL,
       That’s right! But what about those who died never hearing of Him? Are they unsaved, even if they lived a life in service to others with all the earmarks of a “good” person?
       The answer is simple: Jesus obtained “salvage rights” to those sinners of this world, and He will judge everyone on their works, deciding who “gets to go to the  Father”, and who doesn’t. And for some He doesn’t, outside the New Jerusalem on the new earth will still be like paradise. Rev. 22.

    • Kodie

       Because you make it about yourself and your salvation needs, and it’s so obvious as to be hurtful, awkward, obnoxious, and none of your business, any or all of those things at any given time.

  • my own list of things folk considering themselves Christian should not ever say:
    1. when God closes a door he opens a window
    2. Godliness is next to cleanliness (yes I was taught such in public school as a child and adolescent)
    3. God helps those who help themselves
    4. there is a reason for everything
    5. perhaps God is (causing something negative) to get your attention
    6. it is God’s way of telling you it is time for (fill in the blank)
    7. there but for the grace of God go I
    8. if you just have enough faith (fill in the blank) will happen for you
    9. how can a person of faith be depressed
    10. his/her prayer/pointing up to God (as an athlete) is such a good witness

    • Stealing a few of these.

    • Kodie

       11. “Well, I tried.”

      Taking credit for trying to witness, using weak arguments and faulty logic, not getting anywhere, and giving themselves a pat on the back for using everything they have; feeling like a winner anyway. Puh-lease. No listening, no learning, pure ego.

  • I do understand why Christians would say things such as “everything happens for a reason.” I believe that as well.  But that doesn’t mean that you should always say it. For instance, if a child dies the parent has to go through a grieving process. That person cannot jump from A to Z just like that. The first reactions are shock and denial. Then they go through anger and depression. Eventually they come to a place of acceptance.

    Saying platitudes, however well-meaning, discounts that person’s feelings. It tells him that you don’t want to listen to what he is going through. The kindest thing you can do for that person is to LISTEN and not judge.

    One of the things I never do with someone who is in crisis is to say “It’s okay.” Why? Because for that person IT IS NOT OKAY. This phrase has more to do with our discomfort with another person’s emotions than with trying to make them feel better.

    I have outlined some of my feelings about the reasons why we go through suffering on my new blog page. However I stress that these are my own thoughts on the subject and I don’t expect everyone would agree that there are reasons for what we go through.  I would not insult someone who doesn’t agree by insisting that he doesn’t have a right to feel the way he feels. That would be uncompassionate and un-Christian of me.

    • I tried to link my post to my website but I guess it didn’t work.

      Here it is:


    • You “believe everything happens for a reason”. You’re right. But for a stupid reason. If there weren’t a REASON, “it” WOULDN’T happen. ONFG!!
      You’re actually trying to say “bad things have a reasoning behind them” or something else intended to explain a bad thing happening. Then f’ing SAY THAT! Say “God wanted you to get laid off” or whatever you think the “real” reason was. But the literal string of words: “EVERYTHING HAPPENS FOR A REASON” is like saying “things happen because they happen”. Stop using that stupid fucking phrase already you fucking morons!

      • Lance,

        I am truly sorry that you feel that way.  As I pointed out I do not expect everyone to agree with me. Perhaps I did not make my point clearly enough. I am not saying that “things happen because they happen.”  What I am saying is that in my own experience that many of the things that have happened to me that I have judged to be “bad” have actually turned out to be a blessing in disguise.

        For instance, I worked for 12 years at an entry level job because I had no confidence that I could do anything better. Having a nervous breakdown due to bipolar disorder and getting fired actually turned out to be a good thing. I ended up working as a peer counselor at a mental health center and it was the most fulfilling job I have ever had. For the first time in my life I actually had the confidence of knowing that the work that I was doing mattered.  

        Now I am dealing with fibromyalgia and I am not working. But the positive part is that I can pursue my passion for writing.

        Again, I don’t expect everyone to agree with me. I can only share what I know in my own life to be true.

        I appreciate your response because you have shown me that perhaps when I share I should clarify my position to the readers.


        • One more thing, the reason why I say the phrase “everything happens for a reason” is because it is a gentle way of putting it. If I say “God wanted you to be laid off” it can imply that it is a punishment.  I don’t believe in punishment. I believe in opportunities.

        • Stephen Daniele

           filtering the events of the world through your own narrow lens of self interest/reflection is arrogant. IN NO WAY can you apply the ‘everything happens for a reason’ platitude to an infant being brutally raped and dying from the injuries. Or the child sold into the sex slave trade, or 9/11. Where’s the opportunity for these victims to ‘learn’?  Stop it now. You sound ridiculous.

          • You do have a point. I cannot say why these things happen. All I can say is that I have found value in my own suffering. But I can’t speak for anyone else.

    • Very good point – well stated

      • Thank you. I have bookmarked your website. Looks interesting!

        • Thanks, Mary. I’ve had a quick look at your site and look forward to reading more.

    • R L

      I do have a problem with the ‘everything happens for a reason’ platitude because sometimes what happens to or by people is just plain horrible.  And in no way reflects a loving God. 

      But I do believe that good and loving acts can come from horrible situations.  And that is where we find God.

    • Teresa

       I would, if you will allow me to, disagree with one portion of your statement here.  Christians are not the only ones that say “everything happens for a reason”.  I’ve had many well intentioned friends, family, co-workers, etc that have said that to me before when I have gone through different types of loss in my life.  I now they mean well, so I’ve learned to just let them say it and I try to draw comfort more from what they are not saying. (If that makes any sense.)  Many times people will say things like that because they don’t know what else to say or do, never realizing that sometimes there is no need to say anything at all, but to just be there for the person, human being to human being. 😉

  • Jbanderson74

    Please add to your list my all time favorite: “Do you have a personal relationship with Jesus?” 

  • wilford brimley

    The existence of God is independent of religion. Christianity is an obvious lie full of contradiction. Wake up.

    • That is a sweeping generalization to simply call Christianity an “obvious lie”.  There are many beautiful and mysterious ways to try to understand our relationship with The Ultimate which is beyond our comprehension.  Christianity is no so much a lie as one  way that human minds, which can not comprehend that which is outside time and space, try to connect with the Great Magnent of Truth.  Within the supertitle Christianity there are a myriad of ways to get to the Light – granted, not all so helpful – but we are merely mortals and our Books are the holy scribblings of men and women trying to figure it all out.  

    • QuietAtheist

      If you want to say things like that, do it somewhere else. People come to this website to discuss their religion with like minded people, not to be insulted by someone who close mindedly rejects their beliefs while peddling his own flawed belief system in a way likely to cause offence.

      • As I have stated, this is only my opinion. I have not asked anyone else to accept it. And I have not intended to cause offense to anyone. If I said it in an offensive manner I apologize.

  • Brilliant point at the end – we’re all ‘sinners’.
    thanks for these two posts, Christian.
    I’ve always been a bit uneasy about most of these – though have been guily of some. They may be true (some of them – depending on your theology), but may not be the most sensitive way of expressing it to someone who doesn’t share your outlook.
    thanks again.

  • Melody

    Wow, Christian, you sure know how to pull the trolls out of the woodwork! Any time someone forces a fundy to question their precious cliches, they get up in arms. Poor fundies. They don’t know how to question anything. Can’t handle the truth, either.

    • Thanks for using the phrase “fundie”.  Labels are helpful!

      •  Always helps to know what type of target we are shooting at.

  • Paul in Canada

    Thanks so much for sharing all these!

  • Gourmetgoodness

    Wow so many “intolerant” comments from you claim to be tolerant of all religions, beliefs, gods,and lifestyle choices!! That is EXCEPT for christians and biblical beliefs! You dont believe the bible? Dont read it! If you arent a Bible believing Christian then we are just comparing apples to oranges anyway! Phil you are a hypocrit! You bash christians all the while preaching love and tolerance! I pray love and Gods judgement over you. Although it is very apparent you and I do not worship the same God!

    • Intolerance comes in to play when you claim to have sole dominion on how to interprete the Bible.  You have just stated that only those who believe the way you do are Christian. You are the one bashing people.

      Your statement that you “pray love and God’s judgment over you” is a perfect example of what we have been talking about.  It implies that you are good and everyone else is evil. There is nothing “loving” about that. It cracks me up when Christians use “love” as a weapon.

    • Kodie

       I don’t believe the bible, I haven’t read it, but that doesn’t stop me from having to deal with people who believe it and say thoughtless things. Atheists would be especially helpful in training you how not to put your foot in it, I’d think, since most of you don’t know how it sounds to be preached at, since you agree with what’s being preached to you. You don’t ask the person to prove that Jesus made them have to say those things. As for the “same” god – if you believe in god at all, you are acknowledging that there are other gods you don’t worship, rather than the person has misunderstood and misinterpreted your god. Weird for you to come out and say that.

  • katz

    “There but for the grace of God go I” is another problematic one, IMO.  Yes, it’s meant to inspire humility, but (especially in Calvinist circles) the implication that God chose to extend grace to you, but not the other person, still puts you in a privileged class relative to them (you’re still saying “There’s something terribly wrong with that person, but not with me”).

  • Here’s a few…
    1.  “MY Bible says…” and the implication is that what yours says is incorrect.
    2.  “Too blessed to be stressed.”  Must be nice.
    3.  “Anointing” outside of direct Biblical quotes.  That term has been stretched in some circles to the point where there’s a special “anointing” for everything under the sun.

  • HeLP DEPartment


    On our fathers having Christian values that influenced their decision making and building of this countries Constitution.

    • Kodie

      Gullibility is a hallmark of this train of thought. Wanting it to be true is not the same thing as “is” true.

    • Slade

      You are going to go with David Barton’s website?   Really?
      The guy who states that part of the Constitution were taken “verbatim from the bible”.I thought the only people that swallowed that tripe stayed out of site.
      That is a whole different level of batshit crazy – the dangerous kind.
      What is with the fundies and anti-intellectualism these days?

  • HeLP DEPartment

    On the founding fathers and slavery. 

    On a side note. We all seem to forget the Africans and Mulsims who were profiting from selling their own into slavery.

  • Great stuff Christian – really well done!

  • guest/visitor

    this should be tought in every confremation class in the country.

  • Guest

    Just a thought on Point 2:  “The Bible Clearly says..”  You mentioned a term called cherry picking as proof-texting, taking pieces from here and there.  If I understand this as you explain, wouldn’t Jesus would be accused of doing the same?  When he was being tempted in the desert, he replied back to Satan repeating certain passages of scripture from the OT in response.  If it wasn’t “clear” would he have chosen those passages?  Okay, so Jesus may not be a good example as he was God manifested in the flesh, and he would already know this.  So you say one must be a Bible scholar to be able talk about the scripture.  Then Peter should have never spoke on the day of Pentecost, as he was just a fisherman.  In his message to the people, he recited a passage from Joel.  So was he wrong in doing this as he wasn’t a Bible scholar?  Technically, he was “clearing” things up for those who were there that day, for they were a little confused as to what was going on around them.  I realize Peter and Jesus didn’t exactly say “The Bible clearly says..” but they did say “For it is written…”.  Similarity in these phrases?  I will let you be the judge of that.

  • Tpbrow

    religious freedom , here, originally was meant for christian demoninations , jews , and catholics. did never mean all religions, or salem, massachusetts would not be a famous town today. u have not read enuf of thomas jefferson’s writtings. to say he was not a christian, is to say half the catholics in america r not catholic. 

    • Kodie

       Why did we ever stop burning witches?

    • Last I checked, being a Christian isn’t a requirement for being a citizen. And I hope to God that you are not saying it is ok to kill anybody who is not one.

  • LazyDaisy

    I have been waiting most of my life for someone of faith to be this honest. Thank you. What a refreshing dose of realism.

  • BuckE7

    The Bible is clear about what things constitute sin. The list is long and broad.  Many are intuitive…you would know it even if there wasn’t a book laying it out.  Most Christians, while continuing to do certain sins, would not defend their right to do that sin and would generally try to cease or avoid that sin.  We see that.  Homosexuality is unique and insiduous in that the practioner defends his sin and continues to practice it without remorse.  The sexual drive for a straight male is strong  and he must use self control or get married, and even then, he is subject to restriction on his sex drive.  The gay male, apparently, eventually, sears his conscience both to the sin of homosexuality and the need for multiple partners (as do straight males)  and the sin of sex outside of marraige.  The gay man does not have the sin of sex outside of marriage…it is irrelevant.  A married between gay men solves nothing, probably aggravates their sin under the illusion they are married.  We all know gay men, some openly and some not.  Like straight guys, some are likeable and some not.  Some are activist and grossly open about being gay and sexual such as gay pride activities.  Straight guys are generally revulsed by “gay male sex act”.  It is dirty, wholly gross and dispicable.
    Other than that, we could probably get along just like a straight guy.  HATE THE SIN…
    LOVE THE SINNER.  there that was easy 

  • When it comes down to it, some people believe the Bible, some don’t. The Bible itself says that not everyone will believe its words and that there will be just as many who believe it but don’t actually live it and won’t be in heaven.

    Has anyone in history been such a polarizing figure as Jesus? You either have to believe he was the son of god or a liar. He can’t just be a good teacher or prophet because he claimed he was indeed God in the flesh, that he existed when nothing else did.

  • I have no idea why you guys are arguing so much. This isn’t what this Christian forum is about. We all have radical beliefs and we need to accept that. I don’t agree with a lot of the things on this list, because I know that sometime’s when people say things like this, they mean it with the very best intentions. Like saying God needed another angel, we all know that’s not true, but it’s the thought that counts. Furthermore, 1 cor 10:13 does say God does not give us more than we can handle, so I think it makes sense to quote it in situations. The most important thing I would like to put out is that it makes the least sense for christians to seek out the word and end up arguing. We all had good christian intentions for coming to this page, why leave by sinning (arguing). Let us all live in love 🙂

  • just browsing

    Reading thru the comments only make me realise that majority of the people here do exactly what the writers warn them about.

    leopard never changes its spot.

  • contrarianchristian

    Another one that deserves mention is “I don’t have enough faith to be an atheist.”

  • Yes. A thousand times yes. I’d be particularly delighted to see “Hate the sin, love the sinner” retired forever. It always particularly irked me since it seemed to suggest that “sinners” were those folks over there…never us. If the point is that we should love sinners, then maybe we should simply say “Let’s love one another.”

  • Phil Grahn

    These might be cliche’ but its explanations are also off the wall. God only gave mankind One Truth, not two. And when we meet this One Truth, then this Truth will set us free.

  • Stephen Fletcher

    About the incest thing. The Bible does not mention any other humans at the time of Adam and Eve, so it is presumptuous to assume there were others. Augustine in the City of God says that incest is only committed when the perpetrator is using an already existent relationship to expand on instead of creating a relationship with a new person entirely. In a sense it is selfish, for the perpetrator is cutting himself off from making new relationships.

    • Andrew Patton

      More to the point, in the Book of Genesis, the only relationship that was prohibited as incestuous was to have relations with one of your descendants or your descendant’s spouse. It wasn’t until the Exodus that marrying your sister or niece was prohibited by God. And why? Because of the genetic harm that incest does: closely related people are liable to have similar detrimental mutations. Seth and his sister didn’t have this problem because there were no inherited mutations yet. Though they were siblings, there was not the slightest danger recessive genetic illnesses in their offspring.

  • Qwop

    You need to go spend some more time on some of these, seriously

  • Firefly

    I agree with some of these, especially 3, 5 and 9 (though in Canada, where I’m from, you don’t hear 9-equivalent statements much). But “love the sinner, hate the sin” is a pretty good way of succinctly saying that you still will show a person love and respect while still acknowledging that not everything they do is alright. I’ve never heard it used in a way that made anyone sound arrogant, cos at the end of the day most of us know we’re just as messed up in some way or another. I don’t think that in order to point out one person’s mistake we need to acknowledge our own to them in the same breath or be considered arrogant. Nothing wrong with correcting a person with a spirit of love, concern and humility.

    I also think 10 is wrong- we’re supposed to be encouraging each other to be more like Jesus; how can we do that if we never point out each others’ sins? And yes, sometimes using strong language may be necessary. If causing any kind of conflict, no matter the intent or context, amounts to “sowing discord” then Jesus himself would be guilty of it.

    I think these and similar statements are often taken the wrong way cos people don’t like being told they’re wrong, no matter how gently or tactfully a person says it. I’ve been on the receiving end of such attitudes myself numerous times.

  • Glen Coco

    You guys, please remember that we are all, probably, Christians, whether or not we agree on some things. Just remember that while you’re trying to make people see things your way remember that you are a still a Christian and while it does say in the Bible not to be with someone the same sex as you the way you would be with the opposite, it also says to love everyone and treat others kindly, even if they don’t believe the same as you do. It doesn’t make sense to hate people because they sin, because hen you’re sinning too. We are all different and that’s how God made us. Even though we don’t know exactly what to do when someone is doing something that God says not to, and we do get some things wrong sometimes, we do know one thing to do that we know we can’t get wrong or misunderstand: loving one another.

  • Guest

    I have seen some liars in my day but….who’s side is this guys on?? It is not god’s…..He is nothing but an Wolf in sheep clothing!!! !! incorrect teaching. Love the sinner hate the sin, love people and be concerned about their souls. SPEAK out against false teachings such as this the bible means EXACTLY what it says I have it in Greek and Hebrew along with interpretations and how it boils down into English. IT IS LITERAL. Go read Mary k baxters book and re type this garbage. As for incest…You do not even know what it is!! Repent of your lies about the lord so that you may be forgiven of your sin. This man blasphemes the lords word! He goes against everything written and what the lord tells us is true. NUMBER ONE thing to avoid for christian s.. AVOID SHEEP IN WOLFS CLOTHING. You know them but their fruits.

  • Joseph Elisha Venenga

    I can not stand false teachers!!! ….. you faker, liar, REPENT!!

    Jesus says, “My people should love one another and help one another. They must hate sin and love the sinner. By this love shall all men know that you are My disciples.”

    he also says that YOU KNOW when you are saved by your fruits

    so YES it is very possible to know if you are saved.

    “Be not deceived; God is not mocked. For whatever a man sows that will he also reap. Sow to the flesh, and you will reap corruption. Sow to the Spirit, and you will reap life everlasting. The works of the flesh are adultery, fornication, uncleanness idolatry, witchcraft, wrath, envying, drunkenness, reveling and such like. Those who do these things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

    “The fruit of the Spirit are these: love, joy, peace, patience, gentleness, goodness, faithfulness, meekness and self-control. They that are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its lusts.

    if you sin, you have an advocate with the Father. If you repent of your sins, I will be faithful to cleanse you of all unrighteousness. But if you will not repent, I will come in a time you think not, and you will be cut off with the unbelievers and cast into outer darkness.”

    the lords sheep know his voice and follow it!!! they also know the

    voice of a SNAKE!!!!!

    Jesus has said

    Take heed you ministers of the gospel, for these are faithful and true sayings. Awake, evangelists, preachers, and teachers of My Word, all of you who are called to preach the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ. If you are sinning, repent or you will likewise perish.”

    for Jesus has said these things and they are true.

    you either repent or you perish…..you are too love people and give god what is his…the fruits of the spirit…..be profitable of the lord.

    there IS NOTHING wrong with telling people of judement you snake!!! PEOPLE NEED TO KNOW THE TRUTH and it is people like you whom suppress my fathers truth and exchange it with lies!!

    as for the homosexuals


    repent of your sin towards god’s people and your lies!!!.I F you don’t and continue these false teachings…on top of the blood of those whom you damn being on your hands there is going to come a day when you will reap what you sow here.

    i know ill get nasty replies from a lot of people for this but surely i tell you…from the abundance of the heart speaks….for the person who has a good heart brings up good things, is kind, and loving, and brings good things up out of their mouth. But the evil hearted person brings up bad things….swearing, demeaning words, they hurt others and they don’t care……

    • lynn

      There’s some truth to what’s above. Christ NEVER acted obnoxious like most Christians! God gave everyone free will and christ didn’t push his faith on anyone. I don’t agree the everything, but you could definitely take something from his point.

      • Joseph Elisha Venenga

        you are either with god or aganist him im not standing by and letting people fry in hell!!! people need to know these things and i will tell them. evil is so rampit today …..i MUST speak out aganist it!!! many of you serve satan…and dont even know it repent

  • Joseph Elisha Venenga

    It is very easy to see that you have NO idea what you are talking about piatt. Seek piece and truth not what your stomach, privates, and eyes tell you. They lie to you. Listen to your inner heart. …it won’t lie.


    • Oswald Carnes

      So happy to know that I won’t have to spend eternity around “people” like you.

      • joe

        well thats really sad because if you arent with christs people you will be with teh child molesters, murders, demons, sex abusers, drunks, whores, killers, flesh eaters, and worse…trust me…..to be a christian and be saved and to behave and actually over come this world and be with god is WELL worth it….you have no idea what you are actually saying here…..but then again were saved by faith……not by our eyes….

        • lynn

          Christ NEVER talked about hell like the way Christians do. People don’t care what you say until they know u care

      • Joseph Elisha Venenga
  • Anne

    Haha. “War-torn” is a cliche too.

  • lynn

    You had 1-5 but don’t agree with everything below that.

  • See Eye

    cliches are used in order to train the gullible and stupid.

    maybe if you jesus freaks would spend some time reading a science book instead of your best seller fiction novel maybe you’d be able to realize that this life is all there is.

    repeating the same propaganda over and over again will never make it true.

  • WilmRoget

    There’s one more thing, Christian, that you cannot do as a Christian – allow the hate speech that fills the comments here to remain.

    There is no excuse for the vile abuse directed at GLBTQ people in the comments here, and that this hate has been left alone by moderators for a year or more, is sin.

  • Linda Prince Johnson

    The 6 things were written to brothers and sisters IN CHRIST and does not denote what our attitude should be to those who have not obeyed God and been baptized into Christ. However would we be able to accomplish our number one goal as Christians if we can’t teach someone the truth and help them to obey God? That is the number command God has given to Christians…..to seek the lost souls and teach them.