In Revise Us Again, I took dead aim at the two current problems in Christianity today – legalism on the one hand and libertinism on the other. I call these two tendencies “the two enemies of the gospel.” And they have been with us since the first century.
Recently, Josh Kelley has written a new book called Radically Normal: You Don’t Have to Live Crazy to Follow Jesus.
It’s a response to a certain genre of books that have caused younger Christians to view “radical Christianity” through one very narrow lens.
I interviewed Josh to ask him about the book. Enjoy!
Instead of asking, “what is your book about,” I’m going to ask the question that’s behind that question. And that unspoken question is, “how are readers going to benefit from reading your book?”
Josh Kelley: As a pastor, I frequently meet two types of Christians. The first suffer from a spiritual inferiority complex. They feel like second-class citizens in the Kingdom because they haven’t sold all their possessions and become overseas missionaries. The second have a superiority complex, secretly feeling pretty good about what great Christians they are.
By reading Radically Normal, the inferiority complex Christian will discover how he or she can be fully devoted to God in the midst of their normal, everyday life. The superiority complex Christian will learn why being “overrighteous” can be even more destructive than being complacent (see Eccl. 7:16).
I also think pastors and Christian leaders will find some very beneficial tools for helping both of these kinds of Christians (including discussion questions and a suggested reading list).
Tell us a bit about the experiences that shaped the insights in the book.
Josh Kelley: Two things. First was my experience being the “good kid” – I didn’t even know what marijuana smelled like until last year. I was the best Christian in my youth group and I knew it. I don’t regret doing what was right, but I do regret my self-righteousness and spiritual pride. I needed someone to show me how to avoid both complacent and obsessive Christianity. This is the book I wish I had back then.
Second was my time as a bi-vocational pastor/ Starbucks barista. In theory, I knew I didn’t have to be in ministry to please God, but I really struggled to find meaning in my “secular” job. This experience helped me discover how to glorify God in normal, everyday life. My time at Starbucks also provided a lot of great stories for my book (including the time I confiscated someone’s beer).
How is your book different from the many other books on the subject of legalism vs. libertinism, transformation, and spiritual growth?
Josh Kelley: Frank, on your About page, you say, “The two alternatives that dominate Christian culture today are spiritual complacency on the one hand or performance-based religiosity on the other.” I agree and think there are a lot of good books that deal with either one or the other of those, but Radically Normal is different in that it systematically tackles both. The chapters “Between Legalism and Worldliness, Part 1 & 2” are a good example.
Your book is a reaction to some idea that’s being promoted in the Christian world. What idea would that be and what is the harm that it causes?
Josh Kelley: On the surface, Radically Normal may appear to be response to the “New Radicals” movement. While I do cover that, at a deeper level I’m addressing something much older – the church’s tendency to undervalue the things of this life. We think that God must be happier when we pray than watch a football game. But after doing an extensive study on joy (covering more than 700 verses), I’ve come to believe that it’s not an issue of prayer being more acceptable to God than football, but there being a proper time and place for each.
Why is this so important? I believe God created us for joy – not just in heaven someday, but here and now. If people don’t think they can find joy with God, they’ll try to find it without him. I believe that restoring tangible joy to our faith is a key way to keep the next generation from walking away from God. As I say in the book “teaching our teenagers to defend the inspiration of Scripture will do little good if they secretly hope it’s false.”
Legalism is lethal, but following Jesus Christ is in fact costly. What would you say to the person who reads your book and concludes, “Oh, I can now live a comfortable middle-class American life and follow Jesus at the same time.”
Josh Kelley: When I was preaching through an early version of Radically Normal, I heard that one of our members used it to excuse his lack of tithing. You better believe that drove me to balance to my message! As a result, I think I did a good job of calling the reader away from complacency and obsession, and towards a joy-filled life of radical devotion to Jesus, devotion that is lived out in surprisingly normal ways.
Give us two or three insights from the book that would be helpful to Christians.
Josh Kelley: You can honor and please God in the midst of your middle-class life just as much as the overseas missionary. Weirdness is not a Christian virtue. Enjoying this life properly can increase your longing for heaven.
What do you hope readers will walk away with after they finish your book?
Josh Kelley: One of the problems with the “New Radicals” movement is that is creates impossibly high standards that the average Christian can easily dismiss (even if they feel guilty for doing so). It is my hope that readers walk away saying, “By God’s grace, I can do this. And I think it will be much more satisfying than my complacent/obsessive life.”
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