As we blogged about, Pope Francis recently visited a Lutheran church in Rome, where, in answer to a question, he expressed openness to allowing Roman Catholics and Lutherans to commune together. An article on the subject and an interview with the pastor of the Roman Lutheran congregation have been published in the National Catholic Register. The interview is excerpted here after the jump.
We conservative Lutherans agree with conservative Catholics in being opposed to any kind of intercommunion between the churches. We both agree that communion requires full doctrinal agreement. The pastor here is of the Lutheran World Fellowship/ELCA variety, which believes otherwise and that ecumenical unity trumps just about every other consideration.
But I found two things interesting in this discussion. First, the interviewer does not have a clue about what Lutherans believe about Holy Communion. He uses “the Real Presence” to describe the Catholic view, assuming that Lutherans don’t believe in that, even though the term is a Lutheran concept!
More significantly, though, the Pope is acknowledging that Lutherans have the true Body and Blood of Christ in the Lord’s Supper, that the Lutheran sacrament is valid. I don’t know that a pope has ever acknowledged that before. And if the Sacrament is valid, that means the Lutheran pastoral office is valid, which, as the pastor says, has long been a key issue. From Rome Lutheran Pastor: Pope ‘Opened Door’ to Intercommunion |Blogs | NCRegister.com:
Pastor Kruse, you said at this conference that the Pope’s visit to your church “opened a door”. Could you explain a bit more what you meant by that?
Yes, when Pope Francis came to our church here in Rome, the Church of Jesus Christ, it was a very warm atmosphere and he used this meeting with our Lutheran community to open doors to more ecumenism. For example, the holy Eucharist: he said we have the same fundament because, for Lutherans, Jesus Christ is present in the Eucharist, and we have the same baptism and the same faith. So he asked: “Why can we celebrate the Eucharist together?” I think that was very interesting because he said the Eucharist is also a gift for the way to unity. Many people think the Eucharist is the end of this way of ecumenism, but the Pope said: “No, this is now, and [it] can help us to find more unity.” This is a very interesting idea and, you can say, an image of an open door. . . .
Do you think there’s a danger of seeing the Eucharist as the same, whereas there’s the Real Presence in the Catholic Church?
No, it is the same. It’s very interesting because we think the same things about the Eucharist. The theology of the Eucharist is the same today.
Transubstantiation is the same?
We say Real Presence but the idea is very similar. The problem is not the Eucharist. The problem is the understanding of priesthood. That creates the differences and the Pope said: “No, there’s the presence of Jesus Christ, in the Lutheran and the Catholic Eucharist.” We’re both part of the church of Jesus Christ through our baptism and we have the same faith. There are no big differences, no obstacle to us to do it [worship] together.
So do you perhaps foresee, from this, intercommunion — Lutherans going to Catholic Masses and receiving Communion?
I think so. It’s just the practice. Lutherans [already] participate in the Catholic Eucharist and Catholics participate in the Lutheran Eucharist, because for the people, it’s just the same. And they are right, because in the theology of the Eucharist there are no great differences, so we as churches have the duty to find other ways. Because of this, it was a great encouragement from the Pope because he understands there’s a great problem for mixed [denomination] couples because they can’t participate together in the Eucharist. . . .
In the Catholic Church, if you receive the Eucharist in the wrong state, without for example consenting to the main dogmas of the Church, then you’re in fact bringing condemnation upon yourself. Do you agree this is a danger?
No, because it’s Jesus Christ who invites us to participate, it’s not the Catholic or Lutheran Church, and it’s not a question of Lutheran dogmas or Catholic dogmas. Jesus Christ himself invites us and gives us His blood and His body.
So that trumps doctrine in a sense?
Yes, there’s no danger I think of receiving the Eucharist in the wrong way when a Lutheran participates in a Catholic Eucharist because they’re receiving Jesus Christ and not the teachings of the Catholic Church.
[Keep reading. . .]
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