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J. Krishnamurti – Thought and time are always together – Video
J. Krishnamurti – Thought and time are always together – Transcript
Krishnamurti: May we go onwith what we were talking about yesterday evening?I suppose you are here for me to talkaren’t you?So we will have a talk.It is really not a talk at allbut a conversation between usa conversation between two friendsfriends who are peculiar in themselvesfriends who have known each other for a very long timefriends who are not trying to impress each otherwho are not trying to convince each other about anything.They are just friends who have played golf togetherwho have taken walksand looked at the sky and the beautiful eveningand the pleasant trees and the green lawnsand the beautiful mountainsand they are talking over their intimate problemsproblems which they have not been able to solveissues that are confusingliving in a modern worldwith all the difficulties and turmoiland the vulgarity of it all.They are concernedwhat human beings are going to becomewhy they have taken a million years to be what they are now:unreasonable superstitiousbelieving in anything gullibleand caught in organizations.So these two friends which are you and the speakerare going to talk over things together.That is you don’t listen to the speakeryou are entering into his spiritinto his enquiry.So you and the speaker have to exercise your brainsas much as possiblenot accept anything he says.Be sceptical reasonablequestion enquireand if you will together we will take a long journeynot only outwardly but inwardlyinto the whole psychical worldthe world of thoughtthe world of sorrowthe world of fearand all the travail of humankind.And so this is not a lectureto inform to convince to instructbut rather to together have a dialoguea sense of conversationnever holding on to one’s ownparticular form of belief or convictionsbut exchanging changing as they go alongnot hold on or clutch to one’s own experiencessuperstitions and so on.So you are that personyou are that friend with whom the speaker is talkingis having a conversation.So there is not a question of doing any kind of propagandanot trying to convince you of anything at allbut on the contrary asking you to doubt question enquirereasonably logically sanelyif that is possible.And as friends they listen to each other.Listening is an artwhich very few of us are capable of it.We never actually listen.The word has a soundand when we don’t listen to the soundwe are always interpreting ittrying to translate the wordinto our own particular language or particular traditionbut we never listen acutely without any distortion.So the speaker suggestsperhaps respectfully that you so listen.Not interpret what he saysor translate what he says into your own particular terminologyor according to your own knowledgebut listen.When you are telling a storyrather exciting story to a little boyhe is listening with a tremendous sense of excitementcuriosity full of energy.He wants to know what is going to happen.Who is the villain? Who is the heroine?And he is waiting excitedly to the very end.And we grown-up people have lost all that capacity of curiositythe sense of energy to find outthe energy that is required to see very clearly things as they arewithout any distortion.And we never listen to each other.You never listen to your wife do you?You know her much too well or she you.There is not a sense of deep appreciationfriendship amityso that you listen to each otherwhether you like it or not but you do listen.And if you listen so completelythat very listening that very act of listeningis a great miraclebecause that listeninglike seeing observing is very important.We never observe.We observe things that are convenient friendly.We observe if there is a reward or punishment.I don’t know if you have not noticedour whole upbringing education in our life daily lifeis based on one extraordinary principle- reward and punishment.Right?You meditate in order to be rewarded.You progress in order to be rewarded and so on.So here there is no reward or punishment.We are talking over things together.It is very important to understand this.When one is seeking a rewardboth physically and psychologicallyin that search for a reward there is also the punishment- if that reward is not satisfying.So pleasecan we listen to each other per se for itselfnot for something else.To listen as you would listen to a marvellous musicor to the song of a birdwith your heart with your mind with all the energy that one has.Then one can go very far.So we are going to talk over togetherwhere we left off yesterday evening.Most human beings all of us seek securityand it takes many many forms.Security is very important.If you are not secureboth physically and psychologicallyyour brain cannot function adequatelyfully energetically.We must have security.But physical security is denied to millions and millions of peoplewho have hardly one meal a day.And we so-called educated well-to-do peoplewho have taken various forms of beliefs and so onwe are all the time seekingeither consciously or not knowinga kind of security which would give us complete satisfaction.But we never enquire what is insecurity.You understand my question?We want securityand it is necessaryboth biologically and psychologicallythere must be security.And in the search of securitywe never enquire into what is insecurity.You understand?If we can find out together what is insecuritywhy we are insecurethen in the unfolding of it in the causation of itsecurity naturally comes about.Are we together in our conversation?We never enquire why we are insecure.We are always wanting securitythe more the better.So what is insecurity?Why are we insecure in our relationship to each otherin the external world there is tremendous disturbanceturmoil and agony is going on in the world.And each one wants his own placeeach one wants his own securityhe wants to escape from this terrible state of insecurity.So can we together enquire why we are insecure?Right? Can we do that?Can we do it? Can we go along that line?Not what is securitybecause your security may be in illusionin some fantastic romantic concept.Your security may be in some image in traditionor security in a familyin a name.And there is always uncertainty in trying to find security.Right?Can we go along?So why are human beings you and people like us- we are laymen not specialists -why are we insecure what does that word mean?In your relationship to your wife or your husbandthere is a sense of not complete securitynot a complete sense of everything is all right.There is always this background sense of a feelingthat everything isn’t quite right.Everything is so confused uncertain.So if we could enquire why the human brainwhich is all the time seeking securityand it must have security otherwise it can’t function properly.Have you noticed that?You agree too easily.You nod your heads as though it was something…Please keep your head stilland enquire with me to find outwhy human beings are insecure.Insecure about what?About not having a job?In a country that is overpopulated like this countryfifteen million people are born every yearoverpopulatedand education is rotten in this country.If there is one job there are probably 10000 people for itand capacitytechnological capacity and so on.In all that there is a certain state of enquirynot only research but one feelsin achieving that there is certain security.Right?And in their relationshipthere is always this sense of insecurity.Don’t you know all this or am I inventing all this?So what is insecurity?If we were not insecurewe wouldn’t talk about godswe wouldn’t talk about security.Because we are insecure we seek the opposite.Have you ever listened to sound?That crow.Sound.The universe is filled with soundthe earth is full of sound.And we seek silence.Meditation is to find some kind of peaceor some kind of silence.But if you understand soundin that hearing the sound there is silence.Silence is not separate from sound.You won’t understand thisbecause you have never listened to sound.Have you ever sat under a treewhen the air is very still quietnot a leaf dancingwhen it is absolutely quiet.Have you ever sat under a tree like thatand listened to the sound of the tree?If there was no silence there would be no sound.You don’t understand all this.So the sound of insecurity the soundmakes us seek securitybecause we have never listened to the sound of insecurity.You understand?If you listened to the implications of insecuritywhich makes us invent gods ritualsand all that stupid nonsenseif you listen to the whole movement of insecuritythen out of that insecurity there comes naturally security.But if you pursue security as something separate from insecuritythen you are in a conflict.I wonder if you understand this.Please do understand this a little bit.You knowof an evening when the stars are clear- not in Bombay -when the stars are clearand there is only one star in the skyand there is absolute silencebut if you listen to that silencein that silence there is the sound.And there is no separation between sound and silence.They both go together.In the same way if you understand insecuritythe causation of itthe cause of insecurityis our own limited brokenpsychological stateand when there is a way of living that is holisticthen there is no such thing as security or insecurity.So we are going to talk over together if you willwhat is holistic way of life.The word ‘whole’ which means completethe word ‘whole’ means in which there is no fragmentationthere is no broken up they have no fragments- fragments as a businessman as an artist as a poetas a religious cuckooor a businessman and so onwhich in our life we have divided.You belong to a special groupwith your garlands and strange dressand the other wears some other kind of costume.We are constantly categorizingputting them into some drawerso that they are this they are communists socialistscapitalists and so on.Now our life if you observe closelyour life is broken upour life is fragmented.And if we understand the nature why we human beingswho have lived on this marvellous earthfor thousands or millions of yearsor one million years or 50000 yearswhy we are so fragmented so broken up.One of the main causes of this breaking up into pieces is- as we said yesterday -that the brain is slave to thought.Thought being limited as we went into it yesterday.Wherever there is limitation there must be fragmentation.When I am concerned with myselfwith my progress with my fulfilmentwith my happiness with my problemI have broken the whole structure of humanity into me.You understand this?So one of the factorsof why human beings are fragmented is thought.Please give your attention to this.And also one of the factors is time.Have you ever considered what is time?According to the scientists who are concerned with timeit is a series of movements.So movement is time.Right? You understand this?Time is not only by the watch chronologically- time as the sun rising sun settingtime when there is dawnand the snow on the mountainsand the deep valleysthat is also time.The darkness of a night and the brightness of a morning.And also there is psychological time inward time:I am this I will become that.I don’t know mathematicsbut one day I will learn all about it.That requires time.To learn a new languagerequires a great deal of time- three months six months or two months.That is also time.There is time to learn to memorise to have a skilland there is also time as the self-centred entitysaying I will become something else.So the becoming psychologically also implies time.So we are enquiring into what is time.Not only the time to learn a skillbut also the time which we have developedas a process of achievement.I don’t know how to meditateI will sit crossleggedand one day I will learn how to control my thought.One day I will achieve what meditation is supposed to beso I practice practice practice.Then you become a mechanical monkeybecause whatever you practice you become mechanical.We won’t go into meditation nowbecause that is a very complex questionwhich we will talk about later.So time.Time is the pastthe present and the future.Time that is the past:all my memories experiences knowledgeall that human beings have achievedwhich remains in the brain as memory which is the past.That is simple.That past is operating now in the present.Right?Is that simple clear?The past:all the memories all the knowledge all the experiencethe tendencies and so on the background.And that background is operating now.So you are the past.And the future is what you are nowperhaps modifiedbut the future is the past modified.See this please understand this.So the past modified in the present is the future.Your tradition as a cultural country for the last 3 to 5000 yearsthis vast accumulation of knowledge cultureall the things human beings have been struggling enquiringhaving a dialogueall that is smashed in the presentbecause the economic conditions demandand the past is broken up modifiedand is going to be the future.Right? This is a fact.So the past modifying itself in the present is the future.So in the present if there is no radical changetomorrow will be the same as you are today.So the future is now.I wonder if you understand this?The futurenot the future of acquiring the knowledgebut the psychological futurethat the psyche the me the selfis the past memoryand that memory modifies itself now and goes on.So the future and the past are in the present.So all time the past present is contained in the now.Right sir?It is not complicated please.It is logical.So if the human brain doesn’t change now instantlythe future will be what you are what you have been.Right?So is it possible to radically fundamentally change nownot in the future?So we are askingone of the factors of insecurityis time and thought.Bien?Are we together in this a little bit?Are we moving together slightlyone step at a time.It is very simple this don’t complicate it.We are the past. There is no question about it.And that past gets modifiedin reaction in challenges in various ways.And that becomes the future.Look you have had a civilization in this countryfor 3 to 5000 years.That is the past.And modern circumstances demand that you break away from the past.And you have no culture anymore now.You may talk about past cultureand enjoy the past fameand past long years centuriesbut all that past is blownup scatteredby the present demands by the present challenge.And that challenge that demandis changing you into an economic entity.So the past being challenged by the now becomes the future.So all past and future in the now.So all time is in the now.I wish you would understand this.So we are saying thatthought and time are the major causeof fragmented human beings.And also we want roots identification.Identification with a groupidentification with a familyidentification with some guruand that is why you put on these strange garments.I know you won’t go away from thatbut that is your job.So we want to be identified with a groupwith a family with a nation and so on.And war the threat of waris a major factor in our lifebecause war may destroy our rootspsychologically therefore we are willing to kill others.And also we want to be identified.You understand?Identified with a nameidentified with a family and so on.So these are the major factorsof our fragmented lives.Now do you listen to the truth of itor do you listen merelyto a description of what is being saidand carry the description not the truth of it?You understand?The idea of it and not the fact of it.You have understood?Say for instancethe speaker says all time is now.If you understand that is the most marvellous truth.And do you listen to itas a series of words and therefore a sound or a wordor an idea an abstraction of the truth as an ideaor do you capture the truth of itnot make an abstraction of the truth?You understand?What are you doing?See live with the factor make an abstraction of the fact into an ideaand then pursue the idea not the fact?This is what the intellect does.Intellect is necessary.Probably we have very little intellect anyhowbecause we have given ourselves over to somebody.Intellect demands reason logicand seeing things very very clearlydiscern.And also the capacity of the intellect is to gather informationand act upon that information.And when you hear a statement like this that all time is nowand a statement like you are the entire humanitybecause your consciousness is one with all the others.How do you listen to those statements?Do you make an abstraction of it as an idea?Or do you listen to the truth of it the fact of itthe depth of it the sense of immensity involved in that.Ideas are not immensebut a fact has got tremendous possibility.So a holistic life is not possiblewhen the cause which is thought timeand the desire for identification and for rootsthey prevent a way of living that is whole complete.Now you hear this statementyour question then will behow shall I stop thinking?A natural question isn’t it?Right sir?How shall I?I know time is necessaryto learn a skill language and so ona technological subjecttime is necessary to researchbut I have just begun to realisethat the becoming from ‘what is’ to ‘what should be’ involves timeand it may be totally wrong.It may not be true.So you begin to question or do you sayI don’t understand what you are talking aboutbut I will go along with it?Which is actually what is taking place.I wish we would be very honest to ourselves.Honesty is one of the most important thingslike humility.A vain man cultivating humilitya vain man putting together humilitythat humility is part of vanity.But humility has nothing to do with vanity with pride.It is a state of mind brainthat says I don’t know but let me enquire.Never saying ‘I know’.You understand all this?Now you have listened to the factthat all time is now – fact -you may not agree or you may agree.That is one of our dreadful things agreeing and disagreeing.Why should we agree or disagree?If a fact is that the sun rises in the eastthat is a fact – you don’t agree or disagree.The sun has set it is a fact.So can we put aside from our languagefrom our conditioningof agreeing and disagreeingso that we can both look at facts?So there is no divisionbetween those who agree and those who don’t agree.You understand?There is only seeing things as they are.You can say ‘I don’t see’ then that is a different matter.Then we can go into why you don’t see and so on.But when we enter into the area of agreement and disagreementthen we become more and more confused.So the speaker has said our lives are fragmented.That is a fact.Our ways of thinking are fragmented.You are a businessman earn lots and lots of moneyand then you go and build a temple.Right?Or give it to charity.See the contradiction.And we are never honest to ourselvesdeeply honest.Not honest in order to be something elseor to understand something else.To be unquestionably clear absolutelya sense of honestywhich means no illusions.If you tell a lie you tell a lie and you know itand say ‘I have told a lie’ not cover it up.When you are angry you are angry.You say you are angry.Don’t find causes or explanations of itor how to get rid of it.So this is absolutely necessaryif you are going to enquire into much deeper thingsas we are doing now.Not make a fact into an idea but remain with the fact.That requires very clear perception.Now having said all thiswe say yes I logically intellectually understand this.That is what you will say.And how am I to relatewhat I have logically intellectually understoodto what I have heard what is the truth.So you have already created a divisionbetween the intellectual understanding and action.Right? Do you see this?Just listen don’t do anything about it.Don’t say how am I to get somethinghow am I to put an end to thought and time?- which you can’t which would be absurdbecause you are the result of timeand thought.So you will go round and round in circles.But if you listennot react not say howbut actually as you listen to some lovely musica call to the sound of bird- listen -that time is all in the nowand thought is a movement.So thought and time are together alwaysthey are not two separate movements- one constant movement.That is a fact.Listen to it.Thenidentification.You want to be identifiedbecause in identification as a Hindu or a Muslim Christianwhatever it is you feel secure.That is a fact.And that is one of the causes of fragmentation of our lives- like time thought identification.And also wanting security and thereforetaking roots in a particular countryor in a particular familycommunity a group.These are- listen to it don’t do anything -these are the factors of our fragmentation.Now if you listen to it very carefullythat very listening creates its own energy.Right?Do you understand?If I listen to the fact what has been saidand there is no reaction because I am just listening to itthat implies gathering all your energy to listenand that means giving your tremendous attention to listening.And that very listening breaks down the factors ofor the causation of fragmentation.If you do something then you are acting upon the fact.But if there is an observationwithout distortion without prejudicethat observation that perceptionwhich is great attentionthen that very attention burns away the sense of time thought etc.Is it time to stop?It is just an hour no not yet.It is five minutes past seven.So I will stop at quarter past seven.And also one of the factors of our livesin which we live in fragmentationsis fear.That is a common human factor.Human beings from the moment of timea million years or 50000 years agothey have been frightened.And they have never solved the problem.If you were not frightened at allthere would be no gods no rituals no prayers.It is our fear that has created all the gods all the deitiesall the gurus and their absurdities.So can we go into this questionwhy human beings live in fearand whether it is possible to be entirely free of itnot occasionallynot sporadicallybut to be aware of the objects of fearand also to be aware of the inward causes of fear.You understand my question?You may say I am not afraidbut all your background indicatesthat the background is structured on fearbecause you all believe in God don’t you?Thank God there is one at least that doesn’t.Or many may not believe in God.God is invented by human beings because they are afraid.All the ritualsall the fancy clothes priests put onat the background there is fear.What is fear?Not what causes fear which we will go into presentlybut what is fear?Aren’t you afraid?If you are really honest for a changewon’t you say I am afraid?No?Afraid of death afraid of losing a jobafraid of your wife or husbandafraid of public opinionafraid of not being recognised by your guru as a great discipleafraid of the darkafraid of so many things.We are not talking about the objects of fear.I am afraid ‘of’ something.We are enquiring into the fear itselfper se for itself.One may be frightened of public opinion.It is about fear.The speaker may be frightened because next yearhe may not have this large audienceand all the absurdities of all that.So we are asking what is the causeand what is fear without the cause?Is there such thing as fear without the cause?Or the word ‘fear’ the sound of fear evokes in us fear.You understand?You all look so -I mustn’t look at you.You understand?Say for example:communism’communism’ if you hear that word you react to itif you are a capitalist.Even if you are a socialist you react to it.And when you hear the word ‘fear’ you react to it.Don’t you? Of course.Now is the word creating the fearor the word is different from the fear?This is not complicated. It is simple.The word is not the thing. Right?The word ‘lamp’ or the word ‘microphone’is not the actual microphone – the word is not the thing.Right?So I am asking we are askingthe word ‘fear’ is different from the factor the word creates the fact?Vous avez compris?You understand?So one must be clear about this.If there was no wordas the word ‘fear’ would there be fear?Careful go into it slowly.You seethe word ‘love’ is not that flame.And similarly the word ‘fear’ may not be actualthe sense of being grippedliving in a sense of nervousnessthe fear.You know what fear does to people.They live in darkness they are all the time frightenedfrightened frightenedand their lives become so shattered and so on.So we are askingthe word is not the fact the word is not the thing.That must be quite clear.The ‘microphone’ is not the actual thing in front of the speaker.So what is the cause or causations of fear?Now just a minute. I have asked you this questionthe speaker has asked you this question:what are the causes of fear and so on.He has put to you this question.How do you listen to that question?Because that question itself has a vitality of it is ownenergy of it is own.Because it is a very serious question.It is not merely an intellectual question.Intellect enters into itbut the question itself: what is the cause of fearif you remain with the questionand not try to find an answerthe question itself is beginning to unfold.You understand?No.Suppose I tell you in all seriousness:I love you.Don’t become romantic.Suppose I say that to you with my heart.How do you listen to it?Do you listen to itor all your reactions come into it?Because perhaps you have never loved at all.You have married have sex childrenand perhaps you don’t know what love is.Probably you don’t. It may be a fact.If you loved there would be no gurusno images no division.We will go into that another time.So what is the causation of fear?Listen to it if I may most respectfully suggestlisten to it.Put that question to yourself and don’t try to find an answer.Because if you try to find an answerwhich is let me find out the cause and then I will kill it outthat means then you are different from fear.Right? You follow this?Are you different from fear?Or you are fear.When you are greedy is the greed different from you?When you are angry is anger different from you?You are anger you are greedy.So you are fear. Of course.If you once admit see the fact that anger is yougreed is you fear is you consequently.But now you have separated yourself from fearand say I must do something about it.And you have done something about it for 50000 years.You have invented gods puja and all the rest of the nonsense.So listen to the question and don’t react don’t say how.The word ‘how’ must completely disappear from our minds brains.Then you are asking for helpthen you are depending on somebodythen you lose all your vitality independenceand sense of stability.So will you put this question to yourselfand not expect an answer?Put the question let the question itself -you have planted a seed in the earthand if the seed is alivethen it will go through concrete.Haven’t you seen a blade of grass in the pavement?What extraordinary vitality that blade of grass hasto break through heavy cement.In the same wayif you put this question to yourself and hold itthen you will see the cause of it.The cause is very simple I can explainthat is not the point for the moment.What is important is to put the question and let the question- because you are seriousyou want to find out how to breathehow to live properly -so you have put the questionlet that question itself answerlike the seed in the earth.Then you will see that the seed flowers and withers.You understand this?But if you pull all the time to see if it is growing- you have planted some seed in the earthas we have planted in our heart and mindthe sense of what is fearbut if you keep on pulling at it and asking itthen you are losing energy.But you leave the question alone and live with itthen you will see that there is a cause for fear- not the word not the explanationbut the actual truth of it.The causation of fear is thought and time.Isn’t it? I have a job I might lose it tomorrow.I have lived with pain and it is gone nowand I am afraid it might come back.Right? You don’t know all this?So time is the future and the pastas I explained nowand also thought.Thought and time are the two factors of fear.You can’t do anything about it.Don’t say how am I to stop thinking- that’s a silly questionbecause you have got to think to go from here to your houseto drive a car to speak a language.But time may not be necessary at all psychologically inwardly.I won’t go into that now it is too complicated.So we are sayingfear exists because of the two major factorsof time and thoughtin which is involved reward and punishment.Now I have heard this statement made by you.And I have listened to it so immenselybecause it is a tremendous problem thiswhich man has not solved at alland therefore he is creating havoc in the world.I have listened to you listened to the statement.And you have also told me don’t do anything about itjust put the question and live with itas a woman wears the seed in her wombso you have put this question.Let that question flower.In the flowering of that questionthere is also the withering away of that question.It is not the flowering and then the ending- the very flowering is the ending.You understand?Sir learn the art of listeningto your wife to your husbandlisten to the man in the streethis hunger his povertythe desperation and the lack of love.Listen to it.When you listen at that momentyou have no problems you have no turmoilyou are just listeningand therefore there is no time in the act of listening.That is enough for this evening I think don’t you?\s
J. Krishnamurti – Thought and time are always together – Notes
Please note that this video titled J. Krishnamurti – Thought and time are always together is from J Krishnamurti’s Youtube channel. More information about J Krishnamurti is available on his website at www.jkrishnamurti.org. The transcriptions on this page are automated transcriptions. In case you find any errors please leave a comment below. If you would like to watch this video on the Youtube channel of Jiddu Krishnamurti then please search for J. Krishnamurti – Thought and time are always together on Youtube