A Jewish guy gets it

A Jewish guy gets it April 5, 2012

concerning Obama’s war on the Catholic Church:

Today it is contraception and the morning-after pill. Tomorrow it will be kosher slaughter, or matrilineal descent, or circumcision, or other matters of existential importance to Jewish observance. If the Obama administration gets away with forcing Catholic institutions to step across lines of life and death in the name of “health,” the federal government will have a precedent to legislate Judaism out of existence — as several other countries have already tried to do.

Correctamundo. Caesar is a jealous god and does not take kindly to rivals like the real God. All people of goodwill should side with the Church on this. Because they’re next.

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  • Screwtape, aka Obama, certainly feels threatened by people of Jewish and Catholic faiths because we can all see him for what he really is.

    • kenneth

      If Obama is indeed a devil and Jews and Catholics have special Jedi powers to see that, they ought to have acted on it sooner. Damn near 80% of Jews and 54% of Catholics voted for him in 08.

      • It shouldn’t surprise that Obama gulled many of the faithful. After all, the devil himself can “appear as an angel of light.”

      • Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

        I didn’t vote for him, and I never will. I will pray for those who did.

  • CJ

    There was a comboxer on slate who said that the government should outlaw halal and kosher because modern methods are more humane and, if you look at squint hard enough, they really do meet the halal/kosher requirements anyway. Yep, some atheist technocrat knows your religion better than you do.

  • Nice to see and we could use any/all support (though he is a lone voice in the wilderness). But it would be nicer if we were supported even by those who hate us simply on the freedom of religion principle rather than the “First they came for the Catholics..” principle.

    • kenneth

      And you would have more of that sort of support if we believed your fight was really driven and informed by an interest in real religious freedom. We don’t ride out to aid you because we see that this is simply a fight between authoritarian forces. Helping you win your cause would not buy us religious freedom at all, simply a different tyranny.

      • Separatism guarantees minority status. You have every right to be yourself – but not the right to be free from others. Supporting federal tyranny because you wish to suppress the freedom of others will assuredly leave you friendless when they do come for you.

        • kenneth

          I’m well used to minority status, and we’ve been fighting the feds for longer than you have, and over much more basic rights than the grievance you now press.
          Still, all in all we do alright for ourselves, and worship as we wish in spite of it all. We have friends we support and call upon, who do believe in true freedom of religion.
          The folks staking out the absolutist position on the birth control mandate are, in overwhelming measure, the religious right. They are most certainly not our “friends” nor friends of freedom in any substantive sense. They, like the federal government they now fight, are interested in maximizing power and control over society.
          They are both perfectly willing and inclined to “help” me form my conscience with legislation, re-education and a 3 a.m. knock at the door if push comes to shove. They vary only in ideology and and who they’d like to send to the gulag in what order. I do what I can to preserve my freedom from both of them. One of them may well get me in the end, but at least I’ll have the satisfaction of knowing I wasn’t fool enough to help one of them forge my own chains…

          • Mark Shea

            Comment deleted by author.

            • kenneth

              With that kind of respect for religious freedom, how can anyone not join your fight? I’m not saying we have a monopoly on religious discrimination victimhood by any means, but how many of you have lost custody of your kids or been denied military burials or chaplain services or tax exemptions for being Catholic in the last 20 years (or even the lifetimes of any of your readers?)
              Why would anyone, pagan, secular or otherwise not of your camp see any advantage to helping the cause of people who have such contempt for us? At least the feds are merely indifferent and insensitive….

              • Mark Shea

                You know what? You’re right. My reply was graceless and ungrateful. I apologize. I’ve been crabby today and I took it out on you. It was out of line.

                • kenneth

                  No worries. The blogosphere is often the “one stray too many” on any given day. I don’t think I’m denigrating the faith in my position on the mandate. I do have a pointed, and perhaps belabored, disagreement with a slice of Christianity, and not all of them Catholic, who interpret their faith through a particular lens of politics. Many of them try to put forward partisal political views as core doctrine, with the implication that anyone who dissents is not a “real Catholic” or must be “anti-Catholic.” I think you recognize that as a toxic dynamic for any faith. I do target people’s political ideas and even those informed by faith, but I try not to go after a person’s faith in the way that PZ Myers might. I hope for the same in return. I probably fall short of that goal at times.
                  I carry no water for the administration’s mandate as such. People will challenge it in court and the ballot box, and so it should be.
                  For reasons I have already outlined, I don’t believe their coalition or cause to be the self-evident and exclusive guardians of freedom of religion or the sole agency of “all people of goodwill.”

            • Alexandra

              Why do you chose to be so alienating in the way that you talk to commenters?

              Would you rather that no one posted dissenting opinions? I figure that it makes things interesting and brings traffic, but you are really very mocking and cruel with your responses.

              I’m honestly asking because I’m not sure why you’re using the tone you are. Do you want people with different opinions to stop commenting?

          • Hezekiah Garrett

            So you only recognise and respect the rights of people who endorse certain particular positions you yourself hold dear (CPPYYHD) while any who dissent from CPPYYHD do not have rights worth defending?

            It is the endorsement of your extremely broad notions of this right that entitles one to the exercise of this right, excluding any whose understanding of this right’s scope might differ from yours. The right wing you libel would, you claim limit the exercise of the right to that scope, were they to gain power. But they would still do it universally.

            See, they propose to make the hole smaller, so to speak, so that less fits within it. You wish to deny some access to the hole.

            If I have to pick a side, I’d choose your straw right wing anyday, even if I’d find them abhorrent.

            But I’d still respect your freedom of religion, whether you think mine worth respecting or not.

          • SouthCoast

            Sez you. I have absolutely no interest in ruling your life, as it would take entirely too much of my own time to do so. (Never could understand how anyone could actually want to rule the world, just on the basis of the sheer inconvenience of the exercise.) Leave me alone, and I will reciprocate.

            • kenneth

              That’s actually a damn fair bargain as far as I’m concerned, and one supported by the letter and spirit of separation of church and state in our Constitution (and the many court cases interpreting the particulars). Most Americans get the concept of “live and let live.” Trouble is, most of those drawn to national politics these days don’t get that. Those folks, on the extremes of left and right, are very interested in micromanaging people’s lives, and technology makes that an increasingly feasible proposition.

      • Kenneth, who is the “we” who would ride out to aid us? Combox trolls? I’m guessing your comments are all the aid you will be providing. No thanks, but may God bless you anyway.


  • Dale Price

    If you see it as “simply a fight between authoritarian forces,” you are suffering from moral and political glaucoma.

    • kenneth

      Either that or just paying attention to what the anti-mandate crowd says and does over the long run. Their rhetoric and day to day actions reveal that they have no interest at all in helping or letting anyone live by their own consciences. They’re interested in consolidating the power necessary to make sure all of us live by their consciences.

      • Dale Price

        Whereas the government is dictating your health care, right down to what kind of policy you can carry and what will and will not be covered. And ordering people to give free products and services to others, despite not never having had to do so before (making plan administrators for the self-insured provide products and cover surgeries).

        But that’s OK. There’s no conscience compelling there. The noble individualist declares a pox on both houses, blah blah blah.

        You can preen about your “stand for conscience” all you like, but stop kidding yourself about the implications of that stand.

      • Roberto

        It looks to me that your comments say more about your belief that human interactions are only about power, than it says about the issue at hand.
        But I still want to thank you for making us aware of such an approach and what it says about us and about the world around us.

  • dpt

    “They’re interested in consolidating the power necessary to make sure all of us live by their consciences.”

    I agree…this is what the current administration is doing, and it has been playing out for years at the state and local area too. This power move is alive and well in the Bay Area California.

  • Jack

    Thanks Mark. I always wondered how to correctly spell “correctamundo”.

  • Mark R

    OTOneH, it would be wise for the Jewish communities to approve of matrilineal descent for their own viability as a people, due to intermarriage. OTOH, I am not a Jew and this is none of my concern.

    And people, Obama is just a man, not a devil. When you meet the devil, he is going to be like someone you admire, so watch it!

    • Hezekiah Garrett

      Jews already approve of matrilineal descent.

      It’s patrilineal descent that’s opposed.

  • Lisa

    Amen! It’s so nice to have people of other faiths stand by us in this fight. This has been a scary ride…I never thought I’d see this type of tyranny in my lifetime. Thanks for posting this!