German Muslims Condemn ISIS

German Muslims Condemn ISIS September 22, 2014

in nationwide day of prayer.

Dear Christian reader, C.S. Lewis remarks:

“Suppose one reads a story of filthy atrocities in the paper. Then suppose that something turns up suggesting that the story might not be quite true, or not quite so bad as it was made out. Is one’s first feeling, ‘Thank God, even they aren’t quite so bad as that,’ or is it a feeling of disappointment, and even a determination to cling to the first story for the sheer pleasure of thinking your enemies are as bad as possible? If it is the second then it is, I am afraid, the first step in a process which, if followed to the end, will make us into devils. You see, one is beginning to wish that black was a little blacker. If we give that wish its head, later on we shall wish to see grey as black, and then to see white itself as black. Finally we shall insist on seeing everything — God and our friends and ourselves included — as bad, and not be able to stop doing it: we shall be fixed for ever in a universe of pure hatred.”

Recall that this was written about Nazis.

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What Are Your Thoughts?leave a comment
  • Mike Blackadder

    “A Muslim doesn’t kill other Muslims,”
    Yes, I feel much better now.

    • Joseph

      Good catch. German Muslims seem to be the most tolerant bunch in Europe, so this is expected. However, I’d like to see less emphasis on, ‘what can we do to stop people from joining up with them’ and more on ‘what can we do to actually stop them’. It’s nice to think in terms of generations to come, but are they just going to let the present-day slaughter continue in the meantime while everyone else does the actual *stopping*?
      .
      It is good to hear this, however small of an effort that it is. Here in Ireland, one of the imams in Dublin reported a Wahabbist extremist who was on his way to preach to one of the more extremist communities. The authorities stopped him from coming. It’s a good thing, but let’s not be too hasty and willing to say, ‘oh goody, there’s nothing wrong with Islam’. That extremist was coming at the request of a large community here… and that’s a problem.
      .
      Not to mention, the number of known extremists living in Ireland may be relatively small in terms of total population, but percentage-wise of Muslims living in Ireland, it’s quite significant. One can’t ignore what’s going on in Europe based on one article of Muslims in Germany praying in protest for Muslims that kill other Muslims (no mention of the killing of non-Muslims).
      .
      The only way out of this is to start profiling Muslims until the *good* ones realise they’ll always be profiled by the *bad* ones. Eventually, the pact of silence they have with them will be broken if anything to avoid being treated as the dogs in their religion. Even the so-called *good* ones knew about the sex/torture ring in the UK occurring in their community. They just never felt the need to *snitch*.

      • Alex

        German Muslims seem to be the most tolerant bunch in Europe

        Muslims? In Europe? How’d that happen?

    • jroberts548

      Yes, I’m sure the entirety of what was said was “A Muslim doesn’t kill other Muslims,” and that’s the sole reason German Muslims are protesting ISIS. Nevermind that this same Reuters misquotes the Pope almost once a week; we should just assume that Reuters didn’t cut off any meaningful context, and that Osman was the only person who spoke.

      • Mike Blackadder

        Well certainly we don’t need to take the article at face value. Like anything you question the accuracy of what you’re reading. But what are you suggesting? Are you saying that I’m ignorant because I somehow took ‘A Muslim doesn’t kill other Muslims’ out of context? That it is quite obvious that this is not what was meant to be said? It wouldn’t be the first time that I got something wrong. But it strikes me as an odd thing to say if what you mean to say is that ‘A Muslim doesn’t kill innocent people’, or ‘A Muslim doesn’t kill in the name of Islam’ or whatever.

        Maybe Reuters made a point of quoting a particularly controversial comment. Maybe this isn’t representative of the overall prayer and condemnation. In any case this isn’t the first time that this particular argument (ie. that it is against Islam to kill fellow Muslims) has been put forward as the basis for rejecting militant Islamic groups by mainstream Muslims. The exact same factor is what describes the shifting of opinion regarding Osama Bin Laden and Al Qaeda following their tactics during the Iraq war.

  • That’s OK, ISIS condemns German Islamics for being German.

    • FdS

      Yes, one hopes that is not the *only* reason for their opposition to ISIS, but this article doesn’t give any reason to think so.

      • FdS

        Sorry. That was supposed to be a response to Mike Blackadder’s comment below.

      • I think the primary reason of Islamic opposition to ISIS is indeed recognition that 99% of Islamics are not Islamic enough for the Caliph, and are thus “united in martyrdom” to Christianity and Judaism, to paraphrase Pope Francis.

        Near as I can tell, most Imams tend to tone down when preaching on Sura 8 just like Christian preachers try to tone down when discussion the genocides of the Old Testament. ISIS, by comparison, is trying to use Sura 8 as a war strategy to establish a new Caliphate.

        • Joseph

          That may be the case in the US, but in Europe there is a much larger percentage of extremist imams that people would like to admit.

          • Most extremist Islamic are not Islamic enough for this Caliphate, who want to tear down the Kabba in Mecca for being too close to idolatry and end the hajj permanently. They have already started with shrines, mosques, temples and Churches in the areas they control. The famous one that hit the news was the tomb of Jonah in Nineveh.

            • Joseph

              Yes, but where they agree is that it’s good to get their hands bloody slowly decapitating those who don’t agree with them or kidnapping their daughters to force them into sex slavery… the feelings on the purposes of shrines doesn’t break this cohesion very much.

              • Yes, but the Caliphate is willing to execute other extreme Islamic if they fail to stop worshiping at the Shrines, is the point.

                • Joseph

                  Well, I don’t disagree with you there. A monster whose nipples get hard while they slowly cut an innocent human being’s head off with a dull blade has an appetite that certainly isn’t going to be satiated when those they deem their current enemies are finally eradicated. They are psychopaths who love murder. They will eventually eat their children… after they molest them.

    • Joseph

      Exactly.

  • wlinden

    But we will just get more rationalizations for why That Doesn’t Count, because They are guilty of Not Speaking Out ENOUGH

    • Joseph

      I’m certainly not going to use that form of rationalization. Rather, ‘That Doesn’t Count, because Speaking Is NOT ENOUGH’ when the autrocities are happening in your land and you do nothing to stop it. Please don’t say *what about the Kurds* who have their own designs are don’t want the Christians around either so are leaving all humanitarian aid to everyone else.
      .
      Please don’t say, ‘what about Iran’, who are obviously attempting to pre-empt what is coming their way.

      • jroberts548

        Is it happening in Germany? Or even Turkey? In what sense is this happening in the land of German Muslims? Do you hold Alaskan Christians responsible for everything that happens in Jerusalem?

        And both Germany and Turkey are part of our coalition against ISIS! What else do you expect German Turks to do? Unlike America and the UK, Germany hasn’t spent most of the past decade occupying Iraq; you could more fairly say this is happening in my own land than in the land of German Muslims.

        • Joseph

          Umm… Iraq, Syria, Libya, Egypt, Nigeria, Afghanistan, Pakistan… sorry that what I said went over your head. But then, you’re part of the Blind Islam Defense League.
          Turkey and Saudi Arabia are both part of this *coalition*, though both of those nations have harboured and fostered the extremism in the lands I’ve listed above. People wander around Turkey freely brandishing ISIS apparel.
          I didn’t say anything negative about German Muslims, so I don’t know where you’re coming from. I actually said that they are the most tolerant in Europe (which is actually a compliment). Still even as the most tolerant, the furthest the person interviewed went in the condemnation of his fellow religionists was: Muslims don’t kill other Muslims. Which doesn’t instil that much confidence. They still don’t get it… or maybe they do.

          • Joseph

            Not to mention, chuckle chuckle, the US is part of the coalition, who is responsible for the growth and spread of ISIS to begin with. Anyway, they are only there to dethrone Assad… which is the only reason why Turkey and Saudi Arabia are there as well… use your brain.

            • Joseph

              You obviously didn’t read my comment below either. In which I applaud a local Dublin imam for ratting out the Wahabbist (from the Saudi Arabian coalition) plan to come and *recruit* in Ireland. I know some Muslims here personally that are good people, but I know *a lot* more that are scary and are clearly part of the large extremist community that invited the Wahabbist cleric here in the first place. Man, Americans living stateside have no friggin’ idea. Europe is infested with extremists. In the US, Muslims integrate waaaaayyy better. Largely because the ones who migrate there are of higher education levels and intend to make a good living. They get good jobs and educations and learn to work alongside others. I *never saw* extremist Islam in the US and I lived in multiple states. It’s completely different here in Europe. Most of the Muslim immigrants are on the dole, they close off their communities to outside influence, they live in secrecy, they choose not to integrate, they hate the citizens of their host countries mostly on religious and ethnic grounds.
              In my experience so far, Germany is the *only* exception.

          • jroberts548

            This is an article about German Muslims. You said this: “Rather, ‘That Doesn’t Count, because Speaking Is NOT ENOUGH’ when the autrocities are happening in your land and you do nothing to stop it.”

            So again, in what sense is this happening in their own land? Or are you just spouting off random, irrelevant nonsense that has no connection to the post?

            • Joseph

              Iraq, Syria, Libya, Egypt, Nigeria, Afghanistan, Pakistan… are either Muslim nations or are predominately Muslim. The atrocities are committed by Muslims in the name of Islam. Some Muslims are *speaking about it* rather than *doing something about it*. Clear it up for you? Good.
              .
              There is only a disconnect your mind.

              • jroberts548

                What do those countries have to do with an article about German Muslims? Have you confused Syria and Swabia? Nigeria and Niedersachsen? Iraq and the Eifel? Mosul and the Mosel?

                • Joseph

                  You’re funny.

                  • jroberts548

                    And you’re dishonest. This is an article about German Muslims. In what sense are they ignoring things happening in their own land?

                    • Joseph

                      The article is about Muslims who happen to be German. But I think they’d agree that they are Muslim before they are German, just like a Catholic would agree that they are Catholic before they are a race/nationality.
                      .
                      They look at their religion as universal so there is a spiritual link to those Muslims in Muslim countries as there are Catholics in America to Catholics in those Muslim countries. There isn’t a *separation* there. I’ve already stated that Muslims in Germany are among the most tolerant in Europe. However, the fact remains that the atrocities are occurring under the watch of other Muslims, of whom we are told there is a peaceful majority, that just happen to not be doing anything about it (for the sake of ending the atrocities and saving innocents). I think it’s great that Muslims in Germany are saying *something*/*anything*, but that’s expected from them. I want to see more of if and I want to see something more than just speech. Not just in Germany, everywhere. I want to see more Muslims turning extremists in to authorities around the world. I want to see this type of behaviour purged in Muslim communities by Muslims themselves rather than tacitly approving their existence or simply allowing them to continue to act *contrary to Islam* (e.g. Non-Muslim sex slave trade in the UK under everyone’s nose for a decade).
                      .
                      Talk is good, but talk is not enough when these animals are killing entire villages in the most wretched way imaginable. They need to clean their dirty underwear instead of crying about it to everyone “Look at my dirty underwear, it’s not me, I swear. I don’t like dirty underwear” as they put it back on.

                    • jroberts548

                      So you would feel better if what, exactly? If the German Turks formed a militia to police German muslims and muslims everywhere? I’m pretty sure if that happened you and people like you would be freaking out about Muslim paramilitaries in European cities.

                      They’re German. Their country is supporting our airstrikes against ISIS. They opposed our initial actions that helped create ISIS. What else do you expect them to do?

                    • Joseph

                      I don’t think you’re paying attention to anything I’ve said. In Germany (where it’s not really a problem), I’d like to see the Muslim communities get together and start making it a community effort to report any extremists in their ranks to the proper authorities. I’d like to see that in every country where they reside. They need to not only make being an Islamic extremist unpopular, but they also need to make sure that element is purged from their communities. It would certainly help in Ireland, the UK, and France.
                      .
                      Yes, I expect that the Muslims who are part of the invisible peaceful majority in the Muslim countries where their brothers in faith are razing entire villages establish militias and actually *fight* those nutjobs instead of letting them have their way. If they are too cowardly, then they could do something simple like get together with the other invisible peaceful majority members and leave an rabid dog Islamist ruled area then provide information to the proper authorities (foreign or otherwise) on the location of these canines and let them bomb them into oblivion. Action, not words.
                      .
                      We aren’t talking about bands of thieves or juvenile vandals (though are that that too), we’re talking about people who happily and gruesomely murder as many innocents as they can get their hands on. Quit acting like this is not something big.

                    • jroberts548

                      Is disqus doing something weird? As far as I can tell, this comment thread is in response to a post titled “German Muslims Condemn ISIS,” which is a link to a news report about a protest in Germany in which German Muslims condemned ISIS. But apparently disqus is glitchily showing comments from a completely unrelated thread about Muslims everywhere but Germany.

                      And when the Muslims in countries where ISIS is active fight ISIS, you say that it doesn’t count because they’re acting at least partly out of self-interest.

                      The most charitable assumption I can make is that this whole conversation is the product of a glitch by disqus. The most plausible assumption is that you’re just dishonest. [Edited to add “For example,” as you apparently are unfamiliar with the concept of examples] For example, you wouldn’t be stupid enough to hold a Catholic in China responsible for the Troubles in Ireland. No one is that stupid. Yet somehow you insanely believe that all Muslims are part of one big country, perversely making the same error as ISIS. When Muslims take up arms against ISIS, you condemn them for acting in self-defense. When Muslims thousands of miles away speak out in opposition to ISIS, you condemn them for not taking up arms.

                    • Joseph

                      Wowee. You’re clever. I could see the wry smile on your face while you were typing that and how you turned to the right and said, “Gee. That was funny wasn’t it.”, then to the left and replied, “Golly. It was champ.”.
                      .
                      I know you refuse to acknowledge that there is a problem with Islam. There’s a peaceful and intelligent element, but there is also a large, very dangerous element and the latter infects the whole and is spread everyone like lymphoma.
                      .
                      If Catholics behave badly, Catholics lament it around the world. You can see that on this blog, which covers Catholic world events quite a bit. When Catholics behave badly locally, Catholics usually rally to have something reformed as quickly as possible… check the entire Catholic blogosphere for that.
                      .
                      But, Catholics aren’t perfect… yet we don’t have Catholics running around in Catholic countries slaughtering non-Catholics like sadistic exhibitionists. So, I find this latest response from you quite funny indeed. Here’s why:
                      .
                      On the one hand, you’re rhetorically complaining about some disqus glitch because I’m talking not only about German Muslims but Muslims in general… and it’s confwusing woo. THEN you turn around and start talking about Catholics… perhaps there is a problem with disqus. Apparently, this thread is blending with some other post about bad Catholics in China!
                      .
                      And spare me: “the most charitable assumption I can make… nyuk… nyuk… nyuk…” said in a nerdy little voice as you push your really thick bifocals and wipe your dripping nose over your keyboard. As if you intended to be charitable in any way… silly funny man.

                    • jroberts548

                      So you’re just dishonest.

                      Muslims in Syria, Iraq, and Iran fighting ISIS don’t count because they’re acting out of self-interest. Muslims in Germany speaking out against ISIS don’t count because of Muslims in Ireland and France. If they really cared, they would take up arms, even though that’s exactly what their country (Germany) has done by supporting our airstrikes against ISIS, but that doesn’t count, because they’re Muslims first and Germans second. The only condition under which you would give a Muslim credit for opposing ISIS would be if he personally (rather than his country) took up arms against ISIS without any self-interest, which is not something that can ever happen, because an ISIS victory is not in anyone’s self-interest.

                      And I don’t wear glasses.

                    • Joseph

                      I only appear dishonest to you because you’re confwoosed. And if I’m dishonest by mentioning Muslims as a whole rather than speaking only of Muslims in Germany, what are you for bringing up Catholics in China? Oops. Nyum Nyum Nyum… eat that humble pie…
                      .
                      I know you don’t actually wear glasses, but you put them on just to make that superdy duperdy witty comment earlier.
                      .
                      Funny silly guy…

                    • jroberts548

                      “Rather, ‘That Doesn’t Count, because Speaking Is NOT ENOUGH’ when the autrocities are happening in your land and you do nothing to stop it.”

                      Again, in what way is Syria and Iraq the same land as Germany? That would be like thinking a Chinese Catholic is responsible for Ireland, as if Ireland was his land.

                      You don’t have an answer. The reason you don’t have an answer is because you’re a dishonest jackass.

                      And it wasn’t that witty. I’m much prouder of “[Have you confused] Mosul and the Mosel?”

                    • Joseph

                      You keep going back to one single comment triumphantly while ignoring all of the others.
                      .
                      Tsk. You see? I knew you didn’t mean it when you said you were being charitable… tsk, tsk, tsk. Calling me a jackass… tsk… tsk…
                      .
                      Islam is dangerous. Only in that religion is there a large sector of worshippers who think it’s just dandy to slice and dice innocent human beings to pieces because they do not believe the same way as they do. Only in that religion is that behaviour not condemned by a large sector of worshippers who don’t engage in those activities (because they tacitly agree with the eradication of the targets as long as they don’t have to get their hands dirty). That’s something that you cannot refute.
                      .
                      Chinese Catholics have nothing to do with Muslims.

                    • jroberts548

                      I didn’t say I was being charitable. I said what the most charitable assumption would be, since otherwise I’d have to assume you’re impossibly dishonest or impossibly stupid.

                      This is a story about the overwhelming majority of German Muslims condemning ISIS, and yet you’re telling me that ISIS’ behavior is not condemned by other Muslims.

                      Of course Islam has a problem with extremism. Yes, there are a significant number of Muslims who condone extremism, and non-trivial number who actively support it. But most Muslims aren’t supporting ISIS, many (possibly most) are speaking out in condemnation of it, and those who are in a position to fight it are fighting it, albeit motivated at least partly out of self-interest.

                    • Joseph

                      Wait. Actually, I think you meant that I am an impossibly dishonest jackass or impossibly stupid… neither of which are charitable!
                      .
                      You can’t read, buddy. I’ve posted so many times stating my position and still you misinterpret it entirely.
                      .
                      There is more than just ISIS, you know. Like the Muslim Brotherhood, Hamas, Al Qaeda, Boko Haram, the Taliban, etc. They all like to get blood on their hands. Yeah, it’s convenient to limit the scope, but that’s exactly what the problem is. Too many people willing to limit the scope in order to avoid tarring the religion by those who claim to be aherents of it. I’ve state it before, the Kurds are fighting because ISIS is a territorial threat. They don’t want to lose their chance at a blessed Kurdistan. The refugees are coming in but they’d rather them not and are leaving the Church to take care of them. If they had their way those refugees would starve to death. Iran is involved because they know if they don’t get involved, once Assad is toppled, they’ll be next (as they’ve always been in the crosshairs of the US and the fabricated Muslim Spring). Russia is actually trying to aid Iran because Russia doesn’t want the US to complete its goal of dethroning Assad. Interestingly, Saudi Arabia and Turkey have joined the coalition with a wink-wink nudge-nudge because they want to finish off Assad as well, not because they want to defeat the footsoldiers they helped to create and whom they harbour in their own lands. It’s obvious why Assad is fighting ISIS. But *none of them* (except for Russia, maybe) are fighting to purge that element from Islam or to save the Christians being killed. Geez Louise. How far are you gonna go with this?
                      .
                      As far as the German Muslims, I’ve already made myself clear. As far as Muslims in other European countries, I’ve made myself clear. As far as Muslims in the US, I’ve made myself clear. I’ve lived in Europe on and off and finally permanently since 1995. I know my sh*t. You’re in a bubble in the America. I was in that bubble too. You *have not* seen the element that resides in European countries. If you had, you wouldn’t be so quick to jump to their defense. The only sincerely peaceful Muslims that exist are the ones who recognise when their brothers are committing grave crimes against humanity and reports them. If they are silent, they are tacitly agreeing… and most of the Islamic world is silent.
                      .
                      Just look at the Muslim countries. I don’t want you to lose your intellectual popular party pass either, but sometimes you have to go against the pop cultural grain when faced with a blatant reality. Even Bill Maher, a guy I don’t particularly like has done it. He’s gone against the flow of those in his circles and is actually proving that at least he’s not taking the coward’s way out by Catholic-bashing only. You can do it too. You’ll only lose the friends that like to go to art parties and talk about different flavours of wine.

    • petey

      nail on head, very unfortunately

    • It certainly does count, and were it to be highly effective, it would be sufficient. However, were such vague statements as in the Reuters piece effective at theologically counteracting Islamist movements, ISIS would never have been formed.

      So mark me down for necessary but not sufficient to solve the muslim civil war and I wish them the best of luck in figuring out how to gain control over their internal nutjob enemies.

      You see, the amount of speaking out doesn’t matter. It’s the ultimate reduction in the number of muslims who want me dead that I’m interested in. They can speak out until the cows come home and I won’t care if it’s not effective.

  • neoconned

    Very glad to hear this. Thanks be to God.

  • honzik

    There’s this too:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioUS_xwFfXw

    May God bless these men, and those like them…

    • StumbleBumble

      I watched this video a while back. He will have many more tears to shed as our Christian brothers and sisters seek to leave Iraq forever if they truly wish to live their lives in peace.

  • Elmwood

    i like reading about good people of all faiths or no faith because they certainly exist.

    the enemy isn’t islam, it’s fundamentalism, which infects all faiths. i wish hannity et. al. wouldn’t call it “radical” or “extreme” but call it out for what it is–fundamentalist violent islam.

    one of my favorite parts about being catholic is the diversity and feeling like a family despite differences of culture or race. it would be nice to extend that to muslims some day.

  • jroberts548

    I love how people who routinely criticize the mainstream press for taking one statement by the pope or by a bishop out of context and blowing it up out of all proportion can read this article and latch on to “a Muslim doesn’t kill other Muslims.”

    Even if you’re too lazy to spend two minutes searching for another report on the protest, if you have any honesty or perspective at all, you should know not to read too much into something like that.

    Here’s a link with more on what was said: http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/5852342

    The speakers described ISIS as terrorists and murderers, and repeatedly said that there is no room in Islam for people like them. Does this make you feel better? Knowing, as you should have known if you had any honesty or capacity for reflection, that the speakers were unequivocally, with no ifs or buts, opposed to religious violence, and not merely upset that Muslims were killing Muslims?

    • Joseph

      Yes. It does make me feel better. And, like I said, I’ve already experienced that Muslims in Germany are quite the exception in Europe. They are by far the most tolerant, very similar to the Muslims in the US.
      .
      But, still, I would really like to see more action (for Muslims to purge their own internal stain) and less talk. This crap is happening in Muslim countries, populated by Muslims. Either there is a peaceful majority who condemns this or there isn’t… or the peaceful majority doesn’t actually exist in those lands. Nobody cares about some Iraqi Sunni sobbing because his buddies slaughtered all the Christians at the market where he used to buy donuts when he wasn’t collecting an unjust tax on them for being Christian in the first place. If you’re really upset, if you really think that these animals are an abomination and are treading your religion through the mud, if you really want this cruelty to stop… prove it. Don’t just sob about it then expect the world to fix the stench of hell in your own religion (then complain about it when the world does attempt to clean up your own mess).