emotionally invested preconceived stereotype of women

emotionally invested preconceived stereotype of women June 5, 2013
women stereotype cartoon by nakedpastor david hayward
Wouldn’t it be cool to own a print of this cartoon? Click on the image.

When I saw this video of Fox News’ Megyn Kelly taking on two men in a heated argument about stereotyping women, it only confirmed to me that beneath all the layers of reasoning there resides a deep-seated, gut-level emotional conviction that women must fulfill their stereotypical roles.

Some promote education as the answer. But it is obvious to me that it takes more than education. It takes humility and a willingness to change.

How one gets to a place of being willing to humble oneself, being willing to admit being wrong, being willing to change?

That is the question.

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  • Shary Hauber

    It is so refreshing as a woman to run into a humble man who respects me as an equal. There are not a lot of them. But I see that a lot of men are trying and show women what they consider to be respect but not equality. Not something easy to learn. But I see more equality thinking among younger men that is encouraging. Education may not teach an old dog new tricks but it often works with a young dog.

  • Jerry Lynch

    Is it fair to say that it is natural for Conservatives to protect and promote a stereotype of women in their traditional roles and see feminism as part of the moral decay of this country? I live in a very conservative town and work with Christians. They find biblical support for the traditional roles of women and say it not oppressive but God’s order, which those liberals are looking to destroy. In other words, it is not excatly like the gentleman in the cartoon but a conscious and honored view.

  • Al Cruise

    God’s order?? Book of Titus says how to deal with slaves in “Gods order”.
    Is slavery OK as long as it is done in God’s order?

  • Brigitte Mueller

    I am sorry to say that I watched the thing twice trying to figure out what the question really was. (One really can hate American TV.) And the female interviewer did not exactly come of smelling like a rose of open-mindedness or the spirit of reasoned discussion. In fact, I had to turn my computer speaker down to minimum because of her yelling. Usually we say that yelling means that your point is weak. Was the question this: is it better for children to have a mother at home rather than a father at home, generally speaking, not a hard and fast rule? Is it sexist is say that often it is?

    — Personally, I think, in this era of dead-beat dads, addicted to TV, drugs or video games, or just their own fun, (statistics would be good here), it would be good to expect of most men that they think that they should be successful working hard outside of the home and that they should be involved with their children in their spare time.

    The other day, I was in the Rockies, Jasper, Alberta in a wool shop (it’s closing, don’t go there looking for it) and the radio played an interview with Robert Bateman, the famous wildlife painter. He said he is always asked what kind of world we are leaving to our children, but the thing he said he has begun wondering about more is: what kind of children are we leaving to the world. (It probably was on CBC, and no one was yelling, which was nice.) He said that nothing the children are fed on TV and in their games, etc. is nurturing them “spiritually” (he probably is thinking about nature).

    –It’s just when you think of someone rocking the cradle and singing lullabies, you don’t think of anyone besides the mother doing it. And many don’t want to trade away that place either, and don’t have a choice anymore. I began raising children through the nineties, and the constant refrain was: what are you doing? are you working? People made you feel like a complete failure and lazy butt.

  • Adam Julians

    I can’t speak for the reports that were being referred to outside of the video. But there was agreement on noone saying that women can’t be the breadwinner. And that children in single parent famlies don’t do as well. There was research quoted about children doing just as well as working mothers or stay at home mothers.

    To say there was stereotyping going on is to use emotive language and is not a convincing argument.

    When one of the speakers made a valid point not good for both parents to be working 12 hours a day and then come home and that there were differences between men and women with a protective and a nurturing side respectfully, Kelly did become agressive. If someone is comfortable within themselves, they don’t need to shout down others with differing opinions.

    If humility is to be the order of the day, then it applies to all parties and where there are differeing views arrived at that the person still be accepted in spite of the views and dialogue be conducted healthilt and with dignity.

    The way the conversation went was reminiscient of someone I used to date who was a feminist. She used to say that if women were in charge there would be no more wars. And would be the one to open doors at times for me. The former I disagreed with, the latter felt a bit strange to begin with but I was OK with. And I used to cook dinner for her at times, and do the washing up when she cooked dinner. But where there was disagreement, she was agressive until it got to the point where i called it off.

    Another occasion with something similar was that when dating someone one of the first things she said was that she expected to be loved as Christ loved that church. Later she asserted “it’s all about me”. when I pointed out she was being egocetric, what happened was that she cried, and then what came out was that she was angry with men in previous relationships for not being like i was, angry with herself, afraid of rejection and didn’t feel she could be loved. When I comforted her after that she became full of joy and chose to finish the relationship, saying that she wasn’t ready yet.

    Now, I have had my own issues too don’t get me wrong. Mostly about buried stuff to do with growing up with dyslexia, being told I am lazy when I was exhibitintg symptoms of it, and anger about that which has caused difficulty in relationships.

    But if people are going around being angry and the victim or opressor how is anyone ever going to have th humility, being willing to admit beng wrong and changing that you advocate?

    Fear, retribuition and winning, if they are motivators for actions won’t do it. Only when people take courage to face fear, heal from past hurts, as as considerate of others as self, accepting differences where they are debatable and are motivated by love then shall we see less of this kind of thing.

  • Hannah_Thomas

    Sadly, its anything but honoring. SIN is responsible for the moral decay of the world. Its more human to find blame in others than yourself. Its more comfortable that way. Their denial at times? Its astounding. You point out oppression? They spiritualize it, and then move on. That shouldn’t be anyone role.

  • gimpi1

    The problem with anyone citing “God’s Order” is that I most likely don’t share your beliefs about God. You can believe whatever you want, but you have no right to use force of law to make me follow your beliefs.

    Liberals aren’t, to my knowledge, looking to destroy anything except injustice. Restricting women, or anyone else, based on some view of divine sanction, is unjust.

    As to being a “conscious and honored view,” I’m sure it’s conscious, but, as a woman, I find it anything but honorable.

  • Kristen Rosser

    My father was the one with the good singing voice. I don’t remember my cradle, but I do remember him singing to us and taking us to bed, tucking us in. I do think “you don’t think of anyone besides the mother doing it” is not a universal “you.”

  • Adam Julians

    Hi Bidrette,

    I’m glad I am not ton ontly one who picked up on her agression and the weakness therin.

    And I would be with you with what you said about raising children. My mother stayed home to raise 4 children and she was treated as second class.

    The point about dads is important. I wonder what i would be like as a dad. My dad was always hidden behind a newspaper, or in the garage, working on the car or some project. Or he was with me doing some activity but there wasn’t really a bond, ont until the last few months of his life. Having said that, his father was away at war and when home had suffered the effects of war, so what hope did he have to learn how to be a father?

    I know personally, that I am likeley to step up to something whatever challenge it is, if I am treated with respect, I am much more likely to do things if that is the case. If I would be spoken to like the lady was speaking in the video, I would feel deflated, discouraged, drained if that was an everyday ocurrance.

  • Brigette and Adam: Well, on the one hand I can’t understand your response to Megyn’s interview, but on the other hand I can and am not surprised. She is working in a culture that continues to demean women. Those two men are, in my opinion, a huge part of the problem. She was the host and yet had to constantly fight to maintain moderating position. She literally had to verbally fight, along with raising her voice, to keep control of the interview. The reasoning of those two men is obviously not based on research but on emotion drenched in traditional mores. But it’s typical of people who have issues with strong women to point to their style rather than content. She had content that she used a strong style to try to communicate. They used rudeness, along with a domineering attitude, interrupting, overtalking, to communicate no content.

  • Kristen Rosser

    Excellent point. What these men were saying had direct implications on the choices Ms. Kelly had made in her life– and yet she is the one being faulted for getting upset about that. No one was telling the male discussion participants, “Your having a career is hurting your children!” And yet when Kelly responds to that, they talk over her and make little condescending remarks to one another about the way she’s talking. And when she must raise her voice to keep control of the conversation, she is the one “yelling” and “aggressive.”

    It’s not fair to consider someone’s argument weak just because they are impassioned about it– especially when that person is the only one in the conversation whom the subject of conversation directly and personally impacts.

  • klhayes

    Although NOT a fan of Fox, I liked Megyn’s tenacity. If she had used her inside voice, people would have said she was weak. But now her yelling is a sign of weakness. To be honest, I wonder if the whole thing was not staged to get attention (I would not put anything past Fox), but sometimes we need to yell to make ourselves heard. I feel like doing that a lot.

    When I lived in Madison, WI we used to have these street preachers and they would scream and use bull-horns. I doubt a fundamentalist would have said their argument was weak because of how loud they were.

  • Jerry Lynch

    The comments were focused on the views of conservatives, not my own.

  • Jerry Lynch

    My comments were about how most conservatives view this question, not how I view this question.

  • Hannah_Thomas

    Jerry you are assuming I know how you views things (giggles) – I don’t! I don’t feel its ‘honorable’ or honoring anything to blame shift ‘sin’ of the world to their object of contempt. Is its a conscious? Sure. Someone sold them a bill of good about “God’s Order”. Sad thing is with that purchase anyone that doesn’t think like that? WELL they are in the same arena as the feminists. Sadly, their view turns into a us against them. It jades their view of others, and you can’t find the real TRUTH anywhere. I’m not sure if that is a ‘conservative’ view. Silly? Foolish? Those might be better.

  • Hannah_Thomas

    If you really listen to them? Dobbs and Erickson – they never answered her question. Dobbs goes into how ‘male dominated’ industries are dying, etc. That has nothing to do with women being primary bread winners being the downfall of society, etc. I mean if his industry died, and her’s didn’t? How does that even connect to mothers being bread winners HURTING anything?? Erickson’s view if both parents work 12 hours and come home – SHE has a hard time being a mother. ?? 12 hours of work doesn’t make it hard to be a father in this case? Again what has that got to do with the discussion? Then you have this third realm of what radical feminism thinks – as if its main stream – and it just makes the decision even more muddy. They never did answer the question she asked. NEVER! If someone is telling you that you are a bad parent, and contributing to the downfall of society by the fact you work? Back it up with facts – not rabbit trails. Notice when she did that? Her ‘facts’ were not good enough. Sigh. Dobbs – oh dominate one comment? Talk about rude! WOW!

  • Kristen Rosser

    The “O dominant one” was a direct jab at her for being a woman while being host (i.e., in charge of the discussion). Would anyone have faulted a man for trying to keep the conversation within boundaries? I think not.

    The fact is that as a woman, she had to fight to have what a man would be given without a fight– the right to moderate the discussion as host. And then she is called “aggressive” because she had to fight. But those who never have to shout to be heard really shouldn’t fault those who won’t be heard without shouting, if they shout.

  • gimpi1

    I’m sorry, I didn’t understand that. However, I think my point about not using force of law to compel actions based on someone else’s religious beliefs is valid, no matter who holds those beliefs. How about you?

  • Brigitte Mueller

    Good point. My father sang and prayed me to bed, too. He was very warm and capable, never raised his voice and rarely was unjust. It’s just that he put so much less time into compared to my mother. He did other things like organize bike rides, build houses…

  • Brigitte Mueller

    I don’t think most of what you say comes out from this snippet, at all. Maybe if one had read the blog posts under discussion and watched the whole thing, it would. I don’t watch Fox news and don’t watch Ms. Kelly and all I know from this snippet is that I don’t think I could talk with her.

  • Brigitte Mueller

    That’s a good point, too. Last year, we attended a big convention in San Francisco with two famous speakers giving opening speeches. One was from the Wall Street Post and the other was also a professor at Berkeley (they are so famous, I can’t remember their names.) They talked about the economy and Obama and how health care of all the elderly is going to bankrupt the nation. One is Democrat and one is Republican, but on this last point they agreed. Anyways, they often get pitted against each other on TV and what they appreciated about each other was that each had a calm and decent manner and maintained it. When on TV, they are often regaled by the producers to yell and shout and look angry, get angry… If you don’t it does not make for good TV. It’s a pretty sad state of affairs, that if there is no theatrics, we can’t listen to a decent argument. After all, it makes for bad TV.– It does say something about us and our culture. We can just keep at each others throats. That will make for good TV.

  • Kristen Rosser

    Sorry, but all I’ve seen is this snippet too. The above is what I got out of it. “Women having careers hurts their children” definitely does reflect on a female news anchor who has a very visible career and may either have children or plan to have them. There is no way Ms. Kelly could have felt that the main topic had no impact on her as a woman– even if she planned never to have children, the fact that she was a career woman did make this about her in a way that it simply was not about the two men.

  • Brigitte Mueller

    That makes sense.

  • SophieUK

    I doubt she’d speak to you like that if you aren’t a sexist bully. If you want a woman’s respect you have to earn it.