GODSTUFF: Jay Bakker on gays, his parents and grace

When Jim and Tammy Faye Bakker‘s PTL ministry and Heritage USA theme park crashed and burned in the 1980s, their son Jay was sent into a dizzying downward spiral of drugs, alcohol and running from God.

Now the pastor of Revolution NYC, an alternative church in Brooklyn, N.Y., Jay Bakker’s new book, Fall to Grace probes the power of God’s grace to “revolutionize” believers’ relationships with God, each other and larger society.

Most provocatively, Bakker makes the case that homosexuality is neither a sin nor incompatible with an authentic and robust life of faith. Bakker, 35 and sober, spoke by phone from his home in Brooklyn. Some answers have been edited for clarity and length.

Q: When were you first aware of gay people and homosexuality writ

large?

When I look back now, I knew folks were gay — assistants and

people who worked at Heritage USA, a guy my sister hung out with in high

school. I remember one of my best friends in high school came out to me

and that I was in total shock.

When I was about 12 or 13, people started “coming out” and talking

about it more and more. It happened really fast in my life. There were a

lot of gay teenagers and gay people around me growing up.

There are so many GLBT (gay-lesbian-bisexual-transgender) people

involved in Christian television and in gospel music. There always have

been. Don’t ask, don’t tell. I think the church started that.

Q: Your mother is considered something of a gay icon. Why do you

think that is?

I always knew gay people loved my mom, even before the public

“fall.” She did an interview with someone with AIDS in 1983, she was

talking to an openly gay minister on her TV show. The gay community

showed her more love than the church. Marginalized people are the best

at showing love and grace because they’ve been shown it the least.

I asked one of my gay friends, “Why are you guys so nuts for my

mom?” Of course, there was the makeup and she was funny and silly and

loving, but she was also a survivor, he told me. She was a survivor by

being who she was and didn’t compromise. She survived and didn’t change

under pressure, even when people made fun of her.

Q: Why do you think homosexuality provokes such a strong, some might

say fearful, reaction from many Christians?

For some of the same reasons that divorce did. I think it’s “the

unknown.” It’s a group they’ve counted out for so long. We have to take

responsibility for pushing these people away from the church and pushing

them into the dark. Christians have found excuses to alienate and

discriminate against a group.

We can barely handle our own sexuality. We’re so focused on

homosexuals so we don’t have to look at our own sexuality. Christians

are afraid of sex. People get mean, and they toss their morals out the

window. They’re not acting lovingly. They confuse this righteous anger

and judgmentalism with love.

A lot of faith is based on fear. And it’s based on control. It’s

based on “do the right thing and don’t do the wrong thing.” It isn’t

based in love.

Q: How does grace play into conflicts about homosexuality and how

has grace affected your life

The foundation was definitely laid by my folks. When PTL fell, I

didn’t see anything of grace and forgiveness. But they kept telling me,

`You’ve gotta love people. You’ve gotta treat people well and put them

above you.’ Maybe they didn’t always live it out, but there were

definitely points at which my parents showed me that.

Grace has grown and changed in my life. I was always told the more I

read the Bible, the more black-and-white things would become. And they

haven’t; they’ve become more gray. But grace has allowed that to happen

and not freak me out. I understand God’s love better. Grace is one of

those things that continues to evolve.

Grace also gets you into trouble because it teaches you to follow

your convictions — and that’s where you get screwed and condemned by

other people. Grace is much bigger than that. The beauty of grace and

acceptance is just this constant, ever-changing, beautiful thing that

gets better and better. It might not get easier, but it definitely

covers more than I once thought.

This Q&A originally appeared as “10 Minutes with Jay Bakker” via Religion News Service.