George Zimmerman, Catholic

A Reuters profile of the accused killer underscores his faith.  (H/T Tom Peters)

Take a look:

The 28-year-old insurance-fraud investigator comes from a deeply Catholic background and was taught in his early years to do right by those less fortunate. He was raised in a racially integrated household and himself has black roots through an Afro-Peruvian great-grandfather – the father of the maternal grandmother who helped raise him…

…George Michael Zimmerman was born in 1983 to Robert and Gladys Zimmerman, the third of four children. Robert Zimmerman Sr. was a U.S. Army veteran who served in Vietnam in 1970, and was stationed at Fort Myer in Arlington, Virginia, in 1975 with Gladys Mesa’s brother George. Zimmerman Sr. also served two tours in Korea, and spent the final 10 years of his 22-year military career in the Pentagon, working for the Department of Defense, a family member said.

In his final years in Virginia before retiring to Florida, Robert Zimmerman served as a magistrate in Fairfax County’s 19th Judicial District.

Robert and Gladys met in January 1975, when George Mesa brought along his army buddy to his sister’s birthday party. She was visiting from Peru, on vacation from her job there as a physical education teacher. Robert was a Baptist, Gladys was Catholic. They soon married, in a Catholic ceremony in Alexandria, and moved to nearby Manassas.

Gladys came to lead a small but growing Catholic Hispanic enclave within the All Saints Catholic Church parish in the late 1970s, where she was involved in the church’s outreach programs. Gladys would bring young George along with her on “home visits” to poor families, said a family friend, Teresa Post.

“It was part of their upbringing to know that there are people in need, people more in need than themselves,” said Post, a Peruvian immigrant who lived with the Zimmermans for a time…

…Zimmerman served as an altar boy at All Saints from age 7 to 17, church members said.

“He wasn’t the type where, you know, ‘I’m being forced to do this,’ and a dragging-his-feet Catholic,” said Sandra Vega, who went to high school with George and his siblings. “He was an altar boy for years, and then worked in the rectory too. He has a really good heart.”

Read it all.

Comments

  1. He is hardly a Catholic role model, regardless of his family’s Catholic roots. He led his crime watch group in a gated community, and pursued someone whom he said he did not know whether or not he was armed (spoken last week in court). Sounds like a violent vigilante. With the Catholic Church so deeply involving itself in politics on so many issues (which i do not think is good), I am surprised that I have never heard a homily encouraging laying down weapons, or in favor of gun control. Should Catholics be supporting the wide-spread availability of automatic weapons all over this country or vocally opposing it?

  2. pagansister says:

    From reading the article, it is obvious that George’s life started going downhill the last few years. His apparent lack of being able to handle that may have caused him to act as he did and shoot an unarmed black teenager. But that is no excuse for what he did do. Yes, I guess I have found him guilty before trial. Why did he have a gun in the first place, and why did he NOT follow the directions to avoid Trayvon (spelling?) and let the police handle things —George did call 911 but didn’t do as the operator told him. Also, if the pictures of his first visit to the police station were accurate—-he said had been attacked by Trayvon, and was protecting himself, where was the blood? There was no evidence his clothes were bloody, or his face. How much cleaning up would the police have done on the scene? IMO, none. IF they did, they wouldn’t have given him clean clothes. And also, seriously, what does his being an alter boy, and his mixed background, his father’s military service etc. have to do with his guilt or innocence?

  3. Both of you are mistaken in assuming what is not known or is at least controversial.

    It is not clear that he did not cease pursuit when advised (not directed — dispatch cannot order or direct) to do so. It IS clear that he got a gun when law enforcement advised him to do so because of dangerous dogs in the neighborhood. He was in Neighborhood Watch because his neighborhood started one in response to many burglaries and his neighbors asked him to lead it.

    There is a photograph of the back of his head which shows at least two bleeding lacerations.

    WHAT “wide-spread availability of automatic weapons all over this country”? And what do automatics have to do with it anyway. To own a fully automatic rifle you have to be checked by the BATF and pay a fee of around $250. (Ditto for suppressors and short barrels.) A “semi-automatic” pistol, which is what Zimmerman had is more precisely called an “autoloader.” When a cartridge is fired an ingenious mechanism absorbs some of the energy of the recoil by loading the next cartridge into “battery”. That cartridge will not be fired until the operator pulls the trigger. A “semi” that can carry 8 rounds will be lighter and less bulky than a revolver with the same capacity.

    To try someone on the basis of media reports, or to criticize US gun laws without knowing thedifference between an automatic and a semi-automatic is not prudent.

  4. He began carrying a gun because of attacks from a pit bull in the neighborhood. He was told to carry the gun (vs. carrying pepper spray, which was his first idea) by the local animal control officer.

    The dispatcher (who is not a police officer) originally instructed GZ to report in on Trayvon’s actions (“Let me know if he does anything, OK? We’ve got him on the wire. Just let me know if this guy does anything else”). It would be natural in his role as the neighborhood watch captain, for GZ to follow Trayvon and to report on his actions as requested by the dispatcher.
    The dispatcher never TOLD GZ not to follow TM – the statement was “we don’t need you to do that”, at which point GZ said “OK” and began giving the dispatcher instructions on where the police should meet him. There is nothing from that point on in the 911 transcript that indicates that GZ continued to follow TM.

    There is now a picture widely available on the internet that was taken 3 minutes after the incident showing GZ with a bloody head. The police report (which is available online) states that the injuries to his head and nose were treated by an EMT in the back of a police cruiser at the site, thus the lack of blood when he arrived at the police station, so there goes your opinion on no “cleaning up” done at the scene”. Additionally, enhanced photos from the police station, released later, show traces of the cleaned up blood still remaining on the back of his head. He was wearing a red jacket (or some something like a jacket), which is one possible reason why any remaining blood on the front his clothes (after he was treated at the scene) might not be visible in the low resolution video from the police station.

    The reason his background was presented is because the media initially portrayed GZ as a white, racist, cold-blooded killer, who with no possible motive other than racism, hunted down and executed an innocent black child. The introduction of his background does not provide proof of guilt or innocence. But, his background, including his business partnership with a black friend, the history of break-ins in the community, etc., is meant to provide some balance against the initial reports, which many people, perhaps like yourself, seem to think makes this an open & shut case against GZ.

    I find it somewhat ironic that you open your comments stating that events in GZ’s life in the last few years may have been part of the motive for recent events, but you are quick to dismiss a more complete story as irrelevant to the case.

  5. I don’t think Zimmerman is a racist or even a particularly violent guy. The facts that have been established strongly suggest that he is, at best, an idiot with a thwarted dream of being a cop who decided to deputize himself when the opportunity came.
    That final confrontation may have been, in the technical sense, a legitimate self-defense shooting, but Zimmerman engineered that disaster by initiating a confrontation he had no business or authority to initiate. If he had done what neighborhood watch folks are supposed to do, – watch and report – there’s simply no way it could have gone down like this. Having given the location and description of the suspicious person to the police, his job was done, period. Even if he had followed at a very discrete distance, this would not have happened.
    The only reason a civilian ever has for directly confronting someone is if their own life or another life is in clear danger, or (perhaps) if he saw Martin clearly committing some crime like a break in. Not only didn’t Zimmerman have the authority to make such a “field stop”, he had none of the tools or advantages that real cops have to do it safely. His lack of a uniform or badge pretty much guaranteed a fight. Even most career criminals prefer to run or try to talk their way out of jail rather than push a cop into a deadly confrontation or risk huge prison time. Zimmerman wasn’t a cop. He was just another dude on the street getting in the face of another young man. That’s a recipe for a fight in 90% of cases whether or not anyone involved is a criminal.
    Second, law enforcement is a science. Zimmerman had none of the training or instincts that allow real cops to safely detain and question people. The fact that Martin was apparently able to jump him and bloody his head is proof of that. Real cops know how to control and encounter, how to read people, how to grapple and get them down quickly, and how to leave themselves several force options before the gun. Everyone I’ve ever met in law enforcement agrees that firing your gun means the situation is out of control. Sometimes it happens, but at that point it’s just trying to mitigate a disaster.
    I don’t think Zimmerman was a cold-blooded killer or that Martin was a saint, but a young man died primarily because Zimmerman was reckless. I don’t think they ought to send him up for life, but he needs to be held accountable in some proportionate way, his Catholic devotion notwithstanding.

  6. It will be up to a jury, not any of us, to decide his guilt or innocence. This is as it should be; I’m just thankful I won’t have to serve on that jury.

  7. I know a priest who knows the Zimmerman family. He said that the mother is a very devout, lovely woman. That’s nice but Zimmerman doesn’t get a pass becuase he’s Catholic and used to be an altar boy. Geoge decided to play Hardy Boy– a profoundly stupid act. In the real world when you follow a man closely only three things are going to happen:robbery, a beating or a killing. He must have been living in some sort of video game fantasy world.

  8. I know all the NRA folks love to ride the press about the semi vs full auto distinction. Legally and technically speaking, it’s an important one. On a practical street level, the distinction doesn’t mean all that much. Today’s semi-autos put a tremendous level of firepower in the hands of the average (or often below-average) person.

    Many of these pistols pack up to 18 rounds, which can be emptied in seconds. The mass shootings that pop up in the news these days are proof of their power. These nuts, many of whom had no prior training, kill 20 or 30 people before anyone even figures out something’s wrong. A regular schmo with a few hundred bucks now has the firepower equal to that of an entire company of soldiers for most of the history of firearm warfare. I would argue that for many of these situations involving untrained shooters, a semi-auto is probably even more dangerous, at least to the intended victims. More of those shots are likely to stay on target vs a full auto which will tend to climb and burn through ammo in one or two bursts.
    I don’t know if that means bans are in order, but I don’t think our legal system or culture really appreciates the vast increase in firepower that has happened really within the last generation.

  9. Kenneth said: “Zimmerman engineered that disaster by initiating a confrontation he had no business or authority to initiate”

    Once the dispatcher advised GZ not to follow TM, there is no evidence to suggest that he continued to follow. Here’s the transcript:

    “911 dispatcher:

    Are you following him? [2:24]

    Zimmerman:

    Yeah. [2:25]

    911 dispatcher:

    OK.

    We don’t need you to do that. [2:26]

    Zimmerman:

    OK. [2:28]

    911 dispatcher:

    Alright, sir, what is your name? [2:34]

    Zimmerman:

    George. He ran.”

    Note that GZ states that TM ran. At that point, GZ starts giving directions to the police so they can meet him. There is no idication that GZ ran after TM. To support your position, the state will have to prove that GZ continued to pursue TM. Also, keep in mind that following someone is not a crime in itself.

    Also, there not been any evidence presented yet that would suggest that GZ “initiated a confrontation.” Actually, it’s more the opposite: The evidence I’ve seen so far suggests that TM initiated at least one “confrontation”. Again, from GZ’s 911 call:

    “now he’s coming toward me. He’s got his hands in his waist band”
    and then
    “Something’s wrong with him. Yep, he’s coming to check me out. He’s got something in his hands. I don’t know what his deal is.”

    So, who approached who? Once GZ was called off, who followed who?

    Kenneth said: “Zimmerman had none of the training or instincts that allow real cops to safely detain and question people. The fact that Martin was apparently able to jump him and bloody his head is proof of that.”

    Actually, in my mind, this statement only gives further creedence to the idea that GZ was no longer following TM and that TM jumped GZ, which is also GZ’s stated position. Again, so far there has been no evidence that has surfaced in the media to contradict that.

    “Everyone I’ve ever met in law enforcement agrees that firing your gun means the situation is out of control.”

    If we are to believe GZ’s account, supported by a witness , that TM was on top of him, punching him and beating his head (also supported by a photo and the police report of EMT treatment for head & face injuries), and GZ was yelling for help on no one came forward to help him, then yes, I’d say the situation was out of control. GZ obviously felt the same, which is going to play a big part in the jury’s decision.

    The issue here is: will the state be able to get a conviction on 2nd degree murder? The burden of proof is on the state. So far, the known evidence suggests that they will not get a conviction on that charge. Just my opinion, of course. In giving his side of the events, GZ has only made two claims that I can see that are inconsistent:

    1) He states on the 911 call that TM looks to be in his late teens, but at the bail hearing he states that he wasn’t sure about TM’s age and that he thought he might be a little younger than himself;
    2) He said he was indigent, when in fact he apparently had $200k in a paypal account.

    I’m not sure that either of these inconsistencies will be sufficient to damage GZ’s credibility and result in a guilty verdict for 2nd degree murder, in light of the known evidence.

  10. pagansister says:

    Yes, Melody, it most certainly is up to the jury, and I agree—I wouldn’t want to serve on it either. I think it might be hard to get an unbiased jury in this case as the publicity has in many cases, caused folks (and I admit me also) to assume it wasn’t “standing his ground”.

  11. I lived until recently (for 22 years) in Florida. I am taken aback by how nonchalant some Floridians are about gun ownership.

    For example:
    A fellow parishioner told me: “Of course , I own a gun. I need to defend my family.” The mother of one of my son’s classmates carried a hand gun in her purse for protection. (Please believe me when I say that she was “not too tightly wrapped.”) When Gov. Jeb Bush signed the “Stand Your Ground” law, he said: “It’s common sense.” In the Catholic High School where I taught, boys would brag to me about how many different kinds of guns they had.
    I would say that there’s a culture that seems to be fascinated with guns in Florida.

  12. joe mc faul says:

    I think Zimmermann made a very serious mistake that has the very high potential of ruining his life and has already taken the life of another person.

    It’s nice to read about his background. I hope he can look to his background, religion and family find the strength to make things right in the years ahead.

  13. I am a Catholic, and a concealed carry permit gun owner, and there is no moral conflict between the two. We have a duty to protect the lives our good God gave us. There is a huge difference between turning the other cheek, and being a placidly lead to the slaughter by a lowlife thug. This isn’t an issue of martyrdom for the Faith. Let me tell you something about “gun control”, criminals will not turn in their guns, that’s already been proven. Only the law abiding sheepeople will hand over their firearms. Then it will be the criminals, and law enforcement that will be armed, tell me how many officers patrol your area any given shift? Where I live, there are 3 troopers for 2 counties, and 1 deputy sheriff, for my sector. The minimum response time(unless we’re super lucky)is at least 20 minutes, if our deputy isn’t already on a priority call. Our law enforcemen officers here strongly encourage those legally allowed to own firearms to be well trained gun owners.

  14. There is no requirement for a Catholic to become a martyr as a result of a criminal act.

  15. The law-abiding citizen must have the tools necessary to protect his one and only life against those who have the same tools, but with ill-intent.

  16. There is no evidence that Zimmerman “confronted” Martin. He states that while en route back to his vehicle after being advised by dispatch not to follow, he was attacked by Martin, who initiated the confrontation. One can only follow at a safe distance when one knows where that person is. In the dispatch tape, Zimmerman tells the dispatcher, “I don’t know where the kid is”, implying he had lost sight of Martin.

  17. No evidence establishes that Zimmerman was following Martin closely.

  18. Everyone seems already to have prejudged this guy, either favorably or unfavorably. Can’t we all just agree that none of us know the totality of the story to make a judgement on this person or the death he was involved in?

    There is likely to be a public trial and that will allow the public (at least those with enough free time on their hands to bother themselves about this case) to learn more than they will ever want to know about Zimmerman, the person who was killed, and what exactly hapened between them.

    What we can ascertain is that this case really does not fit any of the convenient narratives that various politicians and “activists” have tried to trot out. That means we shouldn’t hear any more comments about this case from POTUS. It also means that Al Sharpton ought to get the plank out of his eye (anyone still remember Tawana Brawley?) before bothering about the presumed speck in George Zimmerman’s. He might also try finding an honest line of work.

  19. How can one be fascinated while simultaneously being nonchalant? Many Floridians simply carry their firearm as they would their wallet and keys. It goes on the belt in the morning and comes off at night, but it’s there should the unthinkable occur.

  20. Zimmerman is a hero. He took up the mantle of watching his neighborhood and calling the police to help cut down on the epidemic of home invasions and armed robberies in his neighborhood. The police can’t be their 24/7 to guard these people.

    Yet despite knowing all the facts about the case and relying upon the liberal media to falsely portray the facts, many of you have prejuded his actions.

    Initially ABC News reported it was a white racist who deliberately gunned down a black child. Next we find out the child was over 6 feet tall – both physically taller and outweighed Zimmerman. Later we find out that Zimmerman is part black and hispanic and was physically attacked by Trayvon to include a broken nose and skull lacerations. Sorry Rev. Al, you race card just expired.

    I only request that the white liberal guilt queens wait till the facts come out in trial before the tar and feather this man for the crime of trying to protect his neighbor from the onslaught of crime.

  21. 1) Why did Zimmerman have a gun?

    “An officer came to the house, county records show. “Don’t use pepper spray,” he told the Zimmermans, according to a friend. “It’ll take two or three seconds to take effect, but a quarter second for the dog to jump you,” he said. “Get a gun.””

    2) Why was Zimmerman focused on Trayvon?

    “”Let’s talk about the elephant in the room. I’m black, OK?” the woman said, declining to be identified because she anticipated backlash due to her race. She leaned in to look a reporter directly in the eyes. “There were black boys robbing houses in this neighborhood,” she said. “That’s why George was suspicious of Trayvon Martin.””

    “Twin Lakes residents said dozens of reports of attempted break-ins and would-be burglars casing homes had created an atmosphere of growing fear in the neighborhood.”

  22. Idolatry takes many forms. One of those forms is the worship of guns and bullets. In the United States, the worship of both handguns and semi-automatic assault rifles is a grave problem. Many, many other countries (Japan, Great Britain, Canada) do not have near the problem we do with people using guns to “solve problems” by killing other human beings. Too bad so many people are wedded so strongly to carrying and using guns. (There’s even a political lobby for them, the NRA — which at one time was a hunters’ organization and is now a lobbying tool of the gun and ammunition manufacturing industry. I would love to see the bishops issue an opinion on such lobbying efforts — and campaign contributions from the NRA –during this election year.)

  23. That was interesting. It opens a whole new dimension to his character. It supports the notion of a good young man caught up in a situation where he may have made the wrong decision. My intuition tells me (I don’t believe the facts are really out there) that this amounts to manslaughter, not murder. The district attorney is going to have egg on her face because of the over charge.

  24. pagansister says:

    HMS, my husband and I just recently moved back to north Florida, after having lived from 1980 – 1987 in central Florida, including 18 miserable months in Miami (hated it there). Several states in between until last October we moved here because both our children live here, and our only grandchild. No family left in RI, and we’re retired. Here it is guns and pick-up trucks. However, I found guns very common in PA when we lived there for 18 months—many were guns for deer hunting etc. but guns never the less. North Florida is very much like AL (lived there too) and GA and guns are a way of life for many. Personally—-I’d rather not! In spite of some of the defense above for Zimmerman, he had no business running about with a gun as “Neighborhood Watch” dude, IMO.

  25. pagansister says:

    Really George? Zimmerman is a Hero!? IMO, it boils down to the fact he had no business carrying a gun (not required as a Neighborhood Watch person) nor following Martin AFTER he was advised to not do so. As to his wounds? He is alive, isn’t he? Martin isn’t.

  26. pagansister says:

    One more thing, George. Why would an officer seriously tell anyone to get a gun to protect themselves from dogs in a city/neighborhood environment? Sounds like an excuse to me to buy a gun. Again, Zimmerman is no hero. If he was so afraid to be out at night because of dogs—perhaps he should have stopped helping out the neighborhood watch at night. Just my 3 cents.

  27. pagansister says:

    Manny, if indeed it ends up as manslaughter, he should do some time. He did kill a man—

  28. Mark Greta says:

    One thing I find appalling in this case is the actions of the usual stir up the riots Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson. Sharpton works for MSNBC which should be looking to end that contract if it had any sense of integrity. I can understand the family wanting to see a fair trial for their son’s death and hope that this does get a fair trial. I do not know that this is possible when the Sharpton / Jackson circus show hits town. I note they were also out marching on this topic in LA. If that is not a dead giveaway of their intent to try to intimidate a guilty verdict not sure what is with the anniversery of the rodney king riots. Of course Obama had to jump in as well with his comment that the victim could be his son. The race card is being pushed on high here to try to make this carry over into the elections season. If only Zimmerman could have been a full caucasion tea party guy, it would have been a jackpot. I would have loved to see the President say, it is a tragedy and everyone needs to calm down and let justice work here.

    I think the second degree charge is going to very hard to prove in a fair trial. If this is a lynching, then I suspect it will get overturned. Florida standing law and Zimmermans position in the neighborhood watch program along with a permit to carry allowed in the state and evidence he was attacked are going to be tough to hang that charge and have it stick. The bullies pushed for this type of charge, but a lesser charge would have had a better shot at sticking.

  29. I agree.

  30. This is a sad week.

    A man I have come to recently know through my ministry and quite like, a prisoner released into the community, made a terrible decision on Tuesday night of this week and took the life of another. He has been charged with second degree murder.

    He was so terribly broken after spending 36 of his 53 years in prison, but he wanted so much to be a good man – a good friend to others who could help keep younger people out of prison.

    What happened has been a terrible tragedy to two families. This has not and never will make international headlines; even most people who read about locally it won’t care that much unless they knew one or the other. But a sinner who is my friend been imprisoned, possibly for the rest of his life, and another man I never knew has lost his life altogether.

    The argument going on here about Mr. Zimmerman and Mr. Martin has for the most part had little or nothing to do with Catholicism.

    If you read this posting, I would like to ask you for a favour. Please stop the argument for a moment and pray for four men: two are dead and two are charged with their killing. Their names are George, Bruce, Trayvon and Joseph.

    Who is who doesn’t matter. God made them all, and God does not make trash.

    Thank you and God bless

  31. pagansister:

    I don’t mind gun ownership for hunting (even though I can’t see how it it can be called a sport when one party is armed to kill and the other is just living our its God-given nature. But that’s just me, I guess.).

    In what part of North Florida are you living? It wouldn’t be Jacksonville, would it? That would be interesting, since I just left there two months ago to come back to my Philadelphia roots.

  32. Every Floridian without a criminal history has a ‘business carrying a gun’, its the state law for those who wish to carry. Both my wife and I have concealed carry permits and carry a firearm in our state.

    The scenario you are describing was given to you by the media, the “continued to follow Martin after being advised not to”, is a lie and already discredited. This will be demonstrated by a timeline in court. Zimmerman broke off is observation of his attacker and was headed back to his vehicle when he was accosted by Trayvon who was heading in the opposite direction of his father’s girlfriend’s home.

    See, you don’t even know the what the story is. This was a media bent on portraying a civil rights/Medgar Evers scenario but facts got in the way. Zimmerman will become rich in his eventual civil suits against the media who committed journalistic malpractice just like Richard Jewell did.

  33. Why would an officer tell a citizen to get a gun?

    Maybe it has something to do with the home invasions and robberies in Zimmerman’s neighborhood that the local police could not prevent.

  34. Hero? What’s heroic about being a busy body who freaked out because a black kid walked by? Considering that Mr. Zimmerman looks just like the illegal aliens who hang around the day labor lots he should have had more of a clue that judging people by their looks isn’t always a good call.

  35. Where are you getting those weight figures from, George? The bulkiest I’ve seen Martin listed at is 6’0″/160 by the police with his family claiming 6’3″/150. Zimmerman is reported by authorities as 5’8″/185, close to the size of some NFL cornerbacks.

    When I was Martin’s police weight and just an inch taller, people called me skinny. My dad was Zimmerman’s height and 40 lbs. lighter and was not thought of as thin.

  36. Dear Daisy,

    Zimmerman is also black on his paternal grandfathers side.

  37. Daisy,

    What, you’re calling out GZ for stereotyping TM, but then you stereotype GZ as looking like an illegal alien? Really?

    Joester

    PS – did you actually read the entire article on GZ? I’d say not, judging by your summation of the incident.

  38. What was he perceived by others and himself as being?

  39. Kenneth,

    Where has it ever been reported that GZ made this “field stop” that you are referring to?

  40. deacon john says:

    Mark, You make a good point.
    It is indeed tragic what transpired between George Zimmerman and Traavon Martin, but we were not there. None of us is in the position of knowing the truth right now. Lets let the courts sort it out. Travon’s family and Mr. Zimmerman both deserve a fair trial.

  41. pagansister says:

    HMS, my husband and I are in Tallahassee. Our daughter came here in 1987 to attend FSU. When she finished, she just stayed here. Our son moved here in 2004. My husband was born and raised in RI, and we spent 18 years there, finishing up our working life. The large construction company my husband worked for, put him in corporate for the last 18 years of his career, corporate is in RI. RI is beautiful, and we loved it there , but when my mother-in-law died Nov. 2010, there was no family left in RI. So, we have moved here. Tallahassee is a nice place, and we’re adjusting. :o)

  42. pagansister says:

    George, you have all the facts? I live in Florida and I haven’t heard any of what you mentioned. Time will work things out—AKA a trial. I don’t know what state you live in, but I’m glad I’m not in it. Not a big fans of guns.

  43. pagansister says:

    Right, George, encourage folks to get a gun. Perhaps. I’m sure police love to have civilians with guns running around. :o)

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