Marc Dupont has just released a new book called Breakthrough in a Time of Breakdown. I caught up with Marc recently to discuss his new book.
Enjoy!
Instead of asking, “what is your book about,” I’m going to ask the question that’s behind that question. And that unspoken question is, “how are readers going to benefit from reading your book?”
Marc: Many, many people are aware the Bible is filled with promises of God’s care, blessings, and provision. Actually there are some 3000 promises of blessings in the Bible for those who are in Christ Jesus. What I have found, however, is that many people are unaware of the ways of God that allow one to really be a recipient of those promises.
Moses prayed ‘teach me Your ways, O God, that I might know you’. Breakthrough in Times of Breakdown can help people not merely trust in the goodness of God but understand what is our part in how we walk with God to enter into to those promises. In our church age it seems to me that Bible teaching has been some what marginalized compared to even 20 years ago. And while the Bible is still being taught in many churches the underlying principals of the scriptures are not always communicated so much. The purpose of Breakthrough in Times of Breakdown is not simply to mention the important promises of God’s faithfulness, but to help people know the underlying principals and ways of God.
For example, Proverbs 24:3 reads “By wisdom a house is built, and by understanding it is established; by knowledge the rooms are filled with all precious and pleasant riches.” What this book can do is help people know both the promises and the wisdom of God as it pertains to ‘prospering even during a time of famine’.
What motivated you to write this book?
Marc: When the economy in the US, and many other countries, tanked in 2008 and 2009 we witnessed many good people go through great difficulties financially that resulted in real hardship as well as some loosing jobs, investments, houses, and their life savings. Many of these people were folks who very much loved God and were now in desperate situations they had never anticipated. As well, for years now, I have done a fair amount of ministry in developing nations where so much of the population struggles simply to put food on the table. Over the last 34 years that my wife and I have primarily derived our income from an itinerant income. We have learned that the economy of God is never dependent on the economy of man. God can bring water out of rocks and He can multiply what we have in hand even if it seems like not enough.
We have learned, as well, that God’s provision, for His children, does not come about simply because we claim a promise in the Bible. Like the disciples we had to learn that if we desire to experience His multiplication of blessings and provision we needed to learn certain principals such as taking what we have in hand and placing it in His hands- meaning it really is better to give than it is to receive, especially when the giving is sacrificial.
The goal of Breakthrough in Times of Breakdown is not simply to bring people into prosperity, but rather, to bring help people experience God’s abundance so that as the apostle Paul put it we ’may abound in every good work’. When it comes to practical blessings I love a quote of a friend of mine that goes like this; ‘God does not so much desire to take us from poverty to riches, but from poverty to generosity’. Breakthrough in Times of Breakdown is a tool towards that goal.
Tell us a bit about the experiences that shaped the insights in the book.
Marc: Especially in the early years of our ministry I was doing a lot of trips to third world nations where we were paying all the expenses. There were many months where going into the last week of the month we only had a small amount of money in the bank and our rent bill, or later on the mortgage payment, would be due by the 1st of the month. At that point we would have to make a decision- do we in faith go ahead and buy the necessary groceries our family needed or do we hang on to the money we have for the mortgage payment as the cash on hand was not enough for both.
On many of those occasions I would be on the other side of the world ministering and my wife, at home with kids would have to make that decision. We learned that if we were truly seeking first the kingdom of God all of these things we desperately needed were, time and time again, given to us by our heavenly Father. When we learned to measure our faith in God by obedience despite the appearance of things we quite often experienced miraculous provision.
Since the late 80’s God has blessed our ministry income and we usually do not need those same exact breakthroughs but still today there are times when we know God is calling us to give sacrificially and we find we need to obey out of faith in God rather than faith in what we have in hand. Even just recently when we moved from Ohio back to San Diego, California, we very much needed to learn some new faith lessons.
We were excited to come back to California for many reasons but the reality was that housing and property values were at least twice as expensive as where we lived in Ohio. This meant that the equity we had accumulated in our 12 year old home was not going to go very far in San Diego, naturally speaking. However, as God began to speak to us about the move we realized He was calling us to believe Him all over again for ‘more than we could think, or ask’.
The house and property we ended up with is a true oasis of peace way beyond what we thought we could ever afford. And just this last week we were able to use our residence to host a roundtable of international church leaders. This property that was way beyond what we thought we could afford has turned out to be so conducive for prayer, rest, and envisioning, not to mention a blessing for our family
Explain the difference between vertical and horizontal thinking.
Marc: Essentially the difference between what I call horizontal thinking and vertical thinking is the difference between God’s perspective of a difficult situation and our natural, or logical perspective. We’ve all heard sayings such as ‘if God closes one door He will open another’. As we all know it’s very easy to give cliché type counseling to someone going through a difficult season. As well meaning as those words may be they usually don’t offer more than emotional help. When we learn to start practicing vertical thinking, however, we are, in effect, trusting God to lead us and guide us by His wisdom into His redemptive purposes in any trial.
The Loaves and Fish story in the Gospels is an excellent example of Jesus trying to teach the disciples about vertical thinking. When the account in Matthew 14 tells us there were 5000 men there that means that counting the women and children there may have been more like 20,000 people. In those times they normally only counted men. All the people were hungry. The disciples wanted to help the people but they were practicing ‘horizontal’, or natural thinking.
They suggested to Jesus to send the people to the villages to buy some food. Jesus, in contrast, was practicing vertical thinking- He was focused on the Father’s provision. So He directed the disciples to give Him what they had- 5 loaves of bread and two fish, which was really not even enough for the twelve disciples. When they put it in Jesus’ hands the text reads He lifted His eyes up. He was not focused on what He had in hand. He was focused on the Father’s supernatural provision. After giving thanks for that provision (by faith) He then gave it back to the disciples and instructed them to feed everyone. Not only did every one have enough but the disciples actually ended up with twelve baskets left over.
I think it’s safe to say that the whole of the Bible is all about learning to think vertically, rather than horizontally. That is to say God is continually calling us to look to Him and His ways rather than ourselves, our natural potentials, and our human wisdom.
For the person who is struggling to have peace in their lives, what practical advice would you give them to experience what you call “supernatural peace?”
Marc: Jesus’ prophetic words of ‘in this world you shall have tribulation’ are proven true over and over again in our lives. As the psalmist put it: ‘Many are the afflictions of the righteous’. In short- bad things do happen to both the good and the evil. Those who do not know Jesus, or those who have difficulties trusting Him, attempt to derive a sense of peace by being in control of their lives and situation which, in the long run, is impossible. For those who really know their God there is a different menu available, however.
One of the key names of Jesus, prophesied by Isaiah, is ‘the Prince of Peace’. His kingdom, according to the apostle Paul is ‘righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy Spirit’. Peace is one of the primary and outstanding characteristics of the person of God and also of His kingdom, or reign. So, in effect, there is a supernatural peace the Holy Spirit can give us that supersedes, or overrides the fear and confusion of the trials we go through.
Part of the goal of Breakthrough in Times of Breakdown is to help the reader enter in to the ways of God to walk with God through pain and difficulties and emerge in God’s redemptive purposes. But part of the goal is to realize that even in the midst of pain and difficulties God is still ‘the God of all comfort’. Few of us are masochistic enough to pray ‘God, bring on the trials’. Yet, when we begin to understand God and His ways a bit we can, even as James put it, ‘Count it all joy, my brothers, when you meet trials of various kinds’.
The peace that the Holy Spirit desires to give us is not a call to deny present problems, or sicknesses. Rather, it gives us a platform of inner strength which allows us to not only learn from our challenges but to actually be in a place of knowing that we know God is in control and does, indeed, work all things to the for the good of those who love Him even in the midst the difficult times and situations. The peace of God allows our souls to actually prosper ‘even in a time of famine’.
What do you hope readers will walk away with after they finish your book?
Marc: A deep down continual conviction that God is El Elyon, the most high God, who is watching over every aspect and season of our lives. He is not merely blessing us during the seasons of promotion and prosperity but He is always with us and His loving kindness endures forever! And in keeping with that- how has God prescribed that we reach out to Him and obey Him.
Is there anything else you’d like people to know about the book?
Marc: To quote John Eldredge: ‘Life is not merely an ordeal to be survived, but an adventure to be lived’. So many people live in a continual emotional realm ranging from confusion to panic with a few happy moments that don’t seem to last. When we begin to not only connect with God, through Christ and the cross, and we begin to learn His ways we realize that our lives are neither determined or defined by our failures and disappointments. God wants us to plan, pray, and consider our lives according to His rich plans to prosper our souls as we walk with Him.
Where can people order a copy?
Marc: People can order the book on my website.
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