Terrorists are back

At least two Americans–from here in Virginia–are among the 145 people killed in India by terrorists. In the attacks, which began just after 9:00 p.m. local time (the day before Thanksgiving for us), dozens of young men strode through the city firing their automatic weapons at crowds and then rendezvoused at hotels at the local Jewish center, where they took hostages. They sought specifically Americans and Britons. Indian commandos are still battling the terrorists.

Americans were killed because of their country. Those Virginians did nothing to those terrorists. Just being an American is enough to get you killed these days. We mourn all those killed, most of whom were Indians. The war on terrorism must continue.

UPDATE: Now that the dust has cleared and order has been restored, it turns out that there were nine gunmen who killed 172 people, six of them Americans.

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  • Veith,

    You are so right.

    “The war on terrorism must continue.”

    It will never end. It should never end as long as the scourge of Islam is upon this planet.
    Islam wants to wipe us (the Church) out. It is our duty to stand fast for Jesus Christ and to protect our faith, our families, our neighbors, our country, and our way of life.

    This war is one that will never end until Jesus Christ Himself puts an end to it.

    And He will. But until then…we fight.

  • Shukri

    This attack is condemned by Islam. The Quran prohibits the killing of civilians.

    Steve, Islam doesn’t want to wipe the Church out. There are still ancient churches in the Middle East which lasted through centuries of Muslim rule.

  • allen

    This sort of thing has been going on for quite some time, of course.


    I’m going to guess that it will get worse before it gets better.

  • Shukri,

    The outcry from Islam over terrorism worldwide is so loud that I barely hear a peep.

    Islam won’t rest until all ‘submit’ to that Christ denying religion.

    Ask the Christians in Lebonon how they are treated by Islam.

    Ask the Christians in Syria, in Iraq, in Egypt, in Iran, in Saudi Arabia.

    Ask the Christians in the Sudan(if there are any left, alive and not enslaved.

    Walk around in London (no less) with a sign that reads ‘Jesus was a fraud.’ What will happen to you? Nothing.

    Walk around in London with a sign that read, ‘Mohammed was a fraud’, and see what happens. You might get away unscathed if you are lucky. You might not.

    Stupid cartoons cause hundreds of deaths.

    Islam. The religion of peace.

    What a joke.

  • FW

    there is no “war” on terrorism. imprecision in language and the use of hyperbole messes with perceptions and messes with proper response. terrorists are criminals. their aim is to creat terror, an emotional response.

    we should refrain from giving them the emotional response they seek. They should be tracked down and brought, alive, before a court of law.

    I disagree with President-elect Obamas sound-bite-to-look-tough that Bin Ladin should be tracked down and killed. No. He should face a civilized response. Lawlessness needs to become an object lesson of the power of the Rule of Law.

    I also disagree with ex-VP candidate Palin who says there is something wrong with worrying about reading someone their rights. As if that were a position of weakness.

  • FW

    #3 Shukri

    You are right and wrong. Islamic nations were havens for persecuted jews fleeing from christian lands at different points of history. Like areas dominated by christians, there has been an ebb and flow of tolerance.

    I have a question for you. The core of christian morality is forgiveness. especially to forgive one´s enemies. can you point me to a place in the Koran that instructs muslims to do this? Implied in this is a tolerance for blasphemy against christianity. Christian´s are commanded to forgive and not retaliate against those who speak out against Jesus or are violent towards christians in word or deed. Can you point me to something in the Koran that would order Muslims to do the same?

    I have read the Koran a couple of times, looking for just this, and have not found anything even close. The absence of this is deafening to a christian.

  • Peter Leavitt

    FW, don’t kid yourself about the Isalamic jihadis who are clearly involved in a war against the civilized world in order that the Muslim world dominates with everyone worshipping Allah and obeying Shariah law.

    Pres. Clinton followed your view of treating the jihadi terrorists as lawbreakers through the court system rather than taking them on frontally in a war against them with the ultimate result of 9/11.

    Mary Habeck, a professor of international relations at Johns Hopkins graduate school, had the following to say about the jihadis in an address to a congressional committee:

    Jihadis have several other distinctive beliefs that separate them from the majority of both Muslims and
    Islamists. Most importantly, they argue that democracy is not just wrong, it is in direct
    contradiction to the fundamental principle of Islam (tawhid). Anyone who supports democracy
    becomes, in this belief system, an infidel who can and should be killed. Second, they recognize
    only one version of Islamic law (shari’a) as correct and state that any Muslim who does not
    follow their variety of shari’a is not only a sinner, but also a non-believer. Finally, they have
    vowed eternal violence and hatred toward all non-Muslims until the entire world is ruled by their
    version of Islamic law. The men who carried out the attacks on the US on 9/11 were jihadis, as
    are the other members of al-Qa’ida, Zarqawi and many other terrorists and terrorist groups
    active in the Islamic world today

    Pres. Bush wisely decided to declare war against the jihadi terrorists and Pres. Obama will most likely continue to fight it aggressively. You simply don’t deal with a group of mass murder killers through the court system unless you have your head in the sand.

  • Carl Vehse

    “Pres. Bush wisely decided to declare war against the jihadi terrorists”

    Pres. Bush declared the Bush Doctrine (which included military action) against the Islamoterrorists; however, he did not officially (constitutionally) declare war.

  • Peter Leavitt

    Agreed, Carl

  • James

    Agreed, Dr. Veith. May God be with all those who need comfort this weekend.

    How about: the war against “islamo facism” instead of “terror”? Terror is a tool. Its Islamo-facisim that is our main opponent. Just want to avoid confusion of language (or the real problem, for that matter).

    Steve @#3–How about a little grace from the religion of grace? There’s enough shame and contempt coming from the Law against unbelievers. I don’t see why you adding to it will help?

    That argument appealing to Muslim behavior isn’t fair. Shukri claim was on formal Islam–not its followers. Muslims could discredit Christianity by pointing to Christians’ behavior just as much as you did for theirs.

    I still agree that Islam is NOT, at its core, peaceful. But perhaps brother, we could be fair–maybe even gracious?

  • rlewer

    FW 6

    When someone is shooting at you, you do not read them their rights.

    The terrorists call it a war.

  • allen

    Michael Scheuer is instructive.


  • Carl Vehse

    Before believing the book-hawking Scheuer, check out the Jihad Watch article about Michael Scheuer, and a followup article in reply to Scheuer’s response.

  • James,

    Christ Jesus died for all, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, Jews, etc.,etc.

    That’s about as gracious as anyone can get.

    It’s hard to say gracious things about a religion that is anti-Christ.

    Jesus Himself said, “I have come not to bring peace, but a sword.”

    My goal in my statements here is not to convert Muslims. But if some are reading these posts I want them to realize that they can be free of the yoke of slavery which is Islam, and they can bask in the freedom won for them on the cross. It is for them.

    I want to help open the eyes of anyone interested in the truth about Islam and the true danger it represents to our way of life, to the civilized world, to all who do believe in the Living Word of God, Christ Jesus.

    Nice Muslim people? Plenty of them! I know many! Wonderful people! But they are a part of an evil religion hell-bent on locking up the world and those that control that religion are fundamentalist crazies that are more than willing to blow up the entire world towards the “submission” of it.

    That is the plain truth of it. If you don’t see it(not you James – anyone), it’s because you are blind to it and to history.

  • Carl Vehse

    Questions about massacre and India’s response are likely to be raised after this British news report.

    Even so, the article does not identify whether the terrorists were Mohammadean or Amish.

  • Peter Leavitt

    Scheuer plays a dangerous game. He compares Bin Laden to Jefferson and emphasizes assorted Muslim grievances against the West, though, as Mary Habeck wrote in Knowing Your Enemy: Jihadist Ideology and the War on Terror these savage terrorists want to destroy the U.S. and the West in order to establish Islam as the dominant religion along with its corrolary Shariah law. All this talk of sometimes real grievances is beside the point. If someone has an issue with you and has decided to murder you, one fights hard rather than talking about the issue.

    Scheuer is not to be trusted. He betrayed Pres. Bush in a polemical book and continues against convincing evidence to view the problem with alQuaeda as merely a a matter of legitimate differences.

    People on this thread should read the links that Carl Vehse has provided.

  • Carl Vehse

    What some American Mohammadans are saying about the Mumbai Massacre can been read and viewed on the Jawa Report.

  • Bart

    First of all, I applaud FW. The key to truly winning this “war” is the Gospel. That was the “sword” that Steve Martin was quoting from the words of Christ. The Gospel divides people as a sword–Steve, that wasn’t a verse supporting physical, religiously-motivated war. We’re not here to set up an earthly political kingdom yet. Look at what Christ says about the Kingdom of God to see how we should then live. The verse was talking of a spiritual war. The Gospel as a spiritual sword divides communities and families–there is something irreconciliable between believers (light) and nonbelievers (darkness). I find many Christians (including commenters in this blog) woefully unprepared to deal with the spiritual war manifested in evangelism and apologetics. Reading the Koran would not be a bad idea to understand where Muslims come from, what they believe, and how to argue a case toward Christ.

  • Bart

    Now, to a more practicle side to this discussion: what is more effective–gearing up the standing army for an expensive war on terror or allowing the citizens to arm to match the terrorists? What would happen if a law-abiding citizen was concealed-carrying on an airplane that a terrorist was trying to hijack? There is no armed force with a faster response than a true militia (not the National Guard or Reserves). Wouldn’t removing the Class 3 (and other gun restrictions) be a more effective way of combating terrorism on our homefront rather than retooling the national military for such conflict?

  • Bart,

    I know what Christ was refering to in His statement that He was bringing a sword and not peace.

    I was trying to persuade some people that the goal is not unity. The goal is to preach Christ and Him alone. Not this goofy ‘a little bit of Christ and a little bit of Mohammed, or Buddha, or Pee-Wee Herman’.

    We can be gracious to sinners who don’t believe, but that does not include letting them slit our throats or the throats of our families or countrymen.

  • rlewer

    Sharing the Gospel in most Moslem countries is a capital crime. Converting to Christianity also carries the penalty of death. So much for dialogue.

    Reading the Koran (I have.) does not give the picture of a peaceful religion.

  • allen

    I can’t speak for Mr. Scheuer, but he says that our choice isn’t between war and peace. It is between war and endless war. That is, we must kill as many terrorists as we possibly can, but at the same time, not get ourselves into a position where we end up having to kill every last Muslim on the planet.

  • James

    Allen #23

    Sounds like Cold War containment policy used for Communism. If this is true, I can’t help but see it as faulty. Containment was a battle effected mainly on political and national boundaries, but Islam is on a whole different level: ideology.

    It seems to me to defeat Islam, along with all other military, diplomatic, and economic means, war must be waged on ideological levels. We must win Islam’s “target audience” and persuade that group to sincerely believe our beliefs over and against Islam.

    I guess what I’m saying is, the answer isn’t containment, but rather conversion.

  • James,

    I like it. Preach the gospel, in love (one on one) to the Moslem, and let the chips fall where they may.

    The other side says “follow Mohammed or have your home burned down. Follow Mohammed or have your daughter raped and murdered. Follow Mohammed or be killed.”

    It’s an uphill battle, but aside from being gracious to the individual Moslem, we must fight radical Islamic groups to the death. There is no talking to them. It’s either us…or them.

  • A pretty good, short, piece on Christians and Islam:


  • WebMonk

    I have a fun little game I like to play with the Koran – randomly open it up and point at a page. Read that page. If there is something about how Muslims are allowed to or commanded to destroy, kill, rape, steal, or lie to non-Muslims, then I win.

    I give myself bonus points if it goes into details of the carnage to be inflicted.

    Depending on your page size, it seems that there’s roughly a 75% chance of “winning”. Bring on the “religion of peace”.

  • Carl Vehse

    From Lost Illusions: What really happened in Mumbai:

    “The illusion that formal agreements between peoples and governments — whether between India and Pakistan or Israel and the Palestinian Authority — can somehow defuse the terrorist problem was the among the first casualties in Mumbai.

    “Islamic terrorists don’t want justice or respect for their beliefs, or restoration of some imaginary homeland. They want violence and death.

    “That was the second illusion that died in Mumbai: that democratic nations can somehow opt out of the war on terror.

    “In short, the Indian government has waged the war on terror in much the same way that liberals and many Democrats have been urging the U.S. to carry it out. The result is that more than 4,000 Indians have died in attacks since 2004 — more than any other nation in the war on terror besides Iraq.

    “Sitting ducks. One reason the Mumbai terrorists sought out Brits and Americans to kill is that they can’t get at them in their own countries. The latest report is that those ‘evil’ U.S. intelligence agencies had actually intercepted threats about possible attacks on hotels in Mumbai, and passed them on to their Indian counterparts — who then failed to take action.

    “Britain and the United States have learned how to deal effectively with terrorism the hard way. Maybe this time Indians will, as well.”