Pope Francis to Pentecostal Conference: Tears of Love, Spiritual Hugs

Brothers and sisters, Luther’s protest is over. Is yours?”  

That’s the message to attendees at a Pentecostal conference from Anthony Palmer, bishop and international ecumenical officer for the Communion of Evangelical Episcopal Churches, following a heartfelt recorded message from his long-time friend, Pope Francis.

Pope Francis met January 14 with Anthony Palmer; but at the time the Vatican release no details regarding the meeting. Today, though, YouTube shows Pope Francis in a newly-released video which was captured by Palmer via his iPhone.

In the video, which has not been released by the Vatican, Pope Francis says to the Pentecostals at a meeting of Kenneth Copeland Ministries in the United States, “Let’s give each other a spiritual hug.”

The Pope speaks first in English, apologizing as he slips into the more familiar Italian, but explaining that he speaks with “the language of the heart.” He asks them to pray to the Lord, that he will unite us all. “Let us move forward,” Pope Francis entreats the Pentecostals,

“…We are brothers; let us give each other that spiritual embrace and allow the Lord to complete the work he has begun. Because this is a miracle: the miracle of unity has begun.”

Remembering Joseph’s reunion with his brothers in Egypt, Pope Francis says that we—like Joseph—cry tears of love. Through Palmer, the Pope sent greetings “both joyful and full of longing”: joyful, because we know that the Lord is working all over the world; yet full of longing, because Christians are still “separated because of sin, our sins.”

Pope Francis expresses his longing for the day when “this separation would end and there would be communion.”

Let’s allow our longing to increase,” he says, “so that it propels us to find each other, embrace each other and to praise Jesus Christ as the only Lord of history.”

In a longer video from the Kenneth Copeland conference, Anthony Palmer tells the Pentecostal gathering about the necessity of Christian unity, if we are to preach salvation in Christ to the world. Palmer said that the divisions between Catholics and Protestants have had no reason to exist since the 1999 Catholic-Lutheran Joint Declaration on the Doctrine of Justification. In that agreement, both Catholics and Lutherans recognized that “by grace alone, in faith in Christ’s saving work and not because of any merit on our part, we are accepted by God and receive the Holy Spirit, who renews our hearts while equipping and calling us to good works.”

We are not protesting the doctrine of salvation [taught] by the Catholic Church anymore,” Palmer said. “We now preach the same Gospel.”

Listen at about 40:00 as Kenneth Copeland and the congregants join in prayer for the Holy Father; then watch as Anthony Palmer videotapes a return message to Pope Francis from Kenneth Copeland himself.

An interesting note:  Reverend Copeland calls him “Sir”–then says he’s available to come to the Vatican.  Who knows what the future holds?

 

  • johnnysc

    This is causing so much confusion. I have heard protestants refer to that joint declaration and are saying that e can share each others communion. What of Apostolic succession?

    • Fr Eric

      the Joint declaration did wonders for ecumenism. It is 2014 and most of my non-Catholic Christian neighbors and acquaintances who thought my family was going to hell 40 yrs ago, now have considered us Christians for about the last 10 years. Pope Francis is reaching out in ecumenism with Kenneth Copeland and that is wonderful. This is a interesting direction, because it signifies that ecumenism is with those who believe, i.e., fundamentalists and Pentecostals et al, as opposed to mainline Protestants who are dying out and do not support Pro Life and defending marriage.

      So…

      It comes down to apostolic succession, which is spiritual and corporeal authority on earth. Borrowing a little from Peter Kreeft, Catholics: Jesus gave us the Church in Himself and sent apostles (apostolos:: to be sent.) out to the world to do specific things. People were evangelized and joined the community and took part in the sacred meal of thanksgiving (eucharistein) . Protestants: come together and form a body of believers in Jesus whom they read about in the Bible and present that group to God and call it church.

      • Gordis85

        Amen! Thank you for such!

      • johnnysc

        Hi Father….I think it comes down to more than Apostolic succession. Jesus founded the Catholic Church and gave it authority. I just think we need to be careful that we don’t muddy Truth in the name of ecumenism. That joint declaration is not official Church teaching. And how are we preaching the same Gospel as claimed in the piece? As you mention Jesus founded a Church and instituted the Sacraments. Isn’t that also the Gospel? It has been my experience that protestants you speak of do not even believe in the necessity of Baptism. It seems more importance is placed on ecumenism than evangelization.

        • desiree madden

          (Johnny) Evangelizing is spreading the GOSPEL with intention to make disciples of any one,not protestants.The good news presented itself with the preaching of repentance and showed itself by signs and wonders,the proof of THE HOLY SPIRITS PRESENCE, with the disciples.Isn’t it time that doctrinal teaching and hierarchical demand acquiesce to the priority of unity with THE HOLY SPIRIT? JESUS’ supplication, just before the crucifixion, for our ONEness is crucial witness to the world! That ONEness is evidenced by a relenting of stubborn minded individuals who consistently and insistently refuse to yield to the Catholic Charismatic Renewal thereby quenching THE HOLY SPIRITS desire to unify HIS CHURCH. For the sake of HIS SORROWFUL PASSION get some understanding and cease from the FEAR about the minutia that hinders true and powerful acceptance of our stature as Children of THE KING! As a lay catholic woman I am also pentecostal ( charismatic giftings, see 1 Corinthians 12 accepted),evangelical and absolutely inspired by CHRIST to live everyday in HIM and FOR HIS GLORY.Do you believe that JESUS is partial to the catholic liturgy and dismisses all other gatherings in HIS NAME because your understanding and explanations of apostolic succession is more important than HIS agenda? Come on brother(Johnny) and sisters out there too.I have been Blessed to receive from THE LORD the experience /encounter of THE HOLY SPIRIT as evidenced in Acts 2, as so many others, but are less accepted by catholics and only GOD knows why there is such refusal of all of HIS GIFTS.There is more JESUS desires to give than gathering for Eucharist.While we know and believe The Mass is first and foremost proper worship a church existing without the powerful display of HIS Signs and Wonders woos no one.Christians are seen as weak and divisive by our own example of separation and denial of operating in and by Charismatic giftings.Come to the full stature of CHRIST church! Peace

          • johnnysc

            The Catholic Church does not need to become more Protestant to attract protestants. The Truth should suffice.

          • Mark D.

            What you have said is the truth! I am a Protestant pastor that is Closet Catholic. Kenneth Copeland will do absolutely nothing good for the Catholic Church.

          • desiree madden

            Closet Catholic? Meaning? You are secretly exploring? If you are “absolutely’ sure of Kenneth Copeland doing “nothing good” for the Catholic Church,may I ask what are you doing for HER? Closets need cleaning out and to continue claiming a protestant profession is to deny CHRISTS prayer of Unity in John 17. See this link as to ecumenical outreach.http://www.ewtn.com/library/ENCYC/JP2UTUNU.HTM
            We cannot pick and choose who is or isn’t good for The Church.
            Peace

          • Mark D.

            Easy… It’s sad with the accusation and personal attack because you do not know me. If you only knew what I have done and what I profess. I do know about Copeland though. Oh too well. Studied him and his group. Do you? Inform yourself before you tell someone to clean out their closet. In my insignificant opinion, the Protestant church will not come together with the Catholics especially not Copeland. This Blog is a indication of the separation that exists. I am not judging Copeland’s Christianity, I leave that to God, just his doctrine. Oh but we can choose who is or isn’t good for the church by being informed and by the Word of God. We can love them, talk with them have dialog with them but do not have to align ourselves with them.
            God’s Grace to all.

          • desiree madden

            I meant no disrespect or attackand opinion is irrelevant.CHRIST says BE ONE…I don’t follow K.Copeland I FOLLOW CHRIST and HIS LEAD IS TO BE RECONCILED. T.Palmer is in a unique position and that by Divine Providence for such times as these.Whenever,wherever division reigns CHRIST does not.This is Tony Palmers initiative.Who cares if Copeland or any other prominent evangelical leader ever comes to Rome? That is GODS PROBLEM.Ours is meeting people where they are ,loving them there and living for CHRIST.The world is darkening daily and Christians permit it by keeping distance from one another. The point is our hearts need to move toward letting GOD DO WHAT HE WILLS.Pope Francis, I’m sure, knows better than any of us commenting here what direction JESUS is pointing toward.Plenty of people are coming to faith as we write and some will never enter into full communion with the catholic church.Think of Messianic Jews, their wrong too? What about Muslims and Mormons.GOD desires them saved .Who are any of us to say …you can’t come,you don’t belong? THE UNIVERSAL CHURCH is neither protestant nor catholic.It is CHRIST IN
            MYSTICAL UNION with ALL BELIEVERS. A reality not yet realized because
            man Fears change more than his willingness to change.Peace

          • desiree madden

            THE UNIVERSAL CHURCH is neither protestant nor catholic.It is CHRIST IN MYSTICAL UNION with ALL BELIEVERS. A reality not yet realized because man Fears change more than his willingness to change.Peace

          • johnnysc

            If your charismatic experience leads you to conclude that attending any old worship service in place of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass that Christ showed us on the road to Emmaus then you might want to rethink what spirit is guiding you.

          • desiree madden

            I don’t attend any old worship service.I attend Mass and also avail myself to be with other denominations so as to win some to Christ becoming all things to all people as St Paul teaches.I asked GOD,please teach me about this text.This 1 Corinthians 12 text.What does it mean? And what did JESUS mean when HE said “stay in Jerusalem until the the power from on high clothes you…which manifested as “other tongues” and emboldened the new believers with ability to show GODS power. >Mark 16:15 He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. 17 And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18 they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well.”< HE said it and few catholics believe it never mind do it.They like protestants, in refusing to take JESUS at HIS WORD about HIS BODY,make the GOSPEL OF NO EFFECT. Numerous protestant believers do let THE HOLY SPIRIT lead them and power and conversion happen in signs and wonders because they take CHRIST at HIS WORD with child like faith.I encourage you to open your heart and your eyes…Peace and see there is more,more MORE CHRIST wants HIS PEOPLE TO BE AND DO!

          • savvy

            I think you might be missing desiree’s point. Pope Francis is being charitable here. He is well aware of the differences we have.

            There are many Protestants who are not ashamed to have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, there are Catholics who think it’s beneath them.

            Progressives constantly pushing for changes in the church’s teachings on morality. are doing so, because they lack God’s grace to help them live these teachings.

          • johnnysc

            Nope…..don’t think I am missing the point at all. There is One True Church. Of course Pope Francis is being charitable but He is also the head of Christ’s Church…..

            “It is an absurd dichotomy to love Christ without the Church; to listen to Christ, but not the Church; to be with Christ at the margins of the Church,” he said. “One cannot do this. It is an absurd dichotomy.” – Pope Francis

            And you are much mistaken about Catholics. We have a true personal relationship with Jesus in the Eucharist!

            for my flesh is true food and my blood is true drink.Those who eat my flesh and drink my blood abide in me, and I in them. Just as the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father, so whoever eats me will live because of me. John 6:55-57

          • savvy

            Dude, I am Catholic too. I fully agree that we have a personal relationship with Jesus in the Eucharist.

            In an ordination a priest must be received by a Bishop. A nun makes vows directly to God. This does not make the nun Protestant because religious life is somehow distinct from the priesthood.

            Protestantism is always an either/Or. Catholicism is a Both/And. Perhaps Pope Francis is trying to show them that Jesus is charismatic, liturgical, sacramental, contemplative and missionary. And they are all found in the catholic church, under the same roof. They do not need to split into countless denominations to follow the Holy Spirit.

            Pope Francis is making an argument without making one.

          • johnnysc

            Your first point…..but you didn’t say that…. you held up protestants as having a personal relationship with Jesus and alluded to Catholics as not having one.

            Second point…. I’m not quite sure what point you are making. What makes the priest and nun Catholic is the fact that they are a part of the Church that Jesus founded, the Catholic Church, and believes that to be true and follows Jesus and His teachings which are One and the Same as the Catholic Church. What makes a protestant protestant is that they don’t believe that to be true. So they have to separate Jesus from His Church. They may profess to love Jesus but they are not following Him. And this goes for the silly named ‘cafeteria catholics’ who are in fact protestant.

            third and forth point…..I know what the Holy Father is doing and fully support him. But I also know a little about protestantism and one should not be blind to the fact that they may be thinking that they are making inroads in evangelizing Catholics. Yes the Church is all those liturgical, sacramental, contemplative, missionary and charismatic. The charismatic thing is too closely related to protestantism for me to be comfortable with but I have no problem with any who do that sort of thing.

          • savvy

            “But I also know a little about protestantism and one should not be blind to the fact that they may be thinking that they are making inroads in evangelizing Catholics.”

            Did you watch the whole video? Tony Palmer said, that the sacraments of the Catholic church were instituted by Jesus Christ.

            This is huge coming from an evangelical.

            Sometimes we need to give people space to make their journey and not pounce on them.

            Trust in God, let him do His job.

          • johnnysc

            The Church that Christ founded is One Holy Catholic and Apostolic.

          • desiree madden

            …and pentecostal and evangelical!

          • johnnysc

            No you are wrong and if you are really a Catholic you need to read your Catechism. If you don’t have a Catechism get one pronto because you are falling into error. If you are not really a Catholic then you need to read the Catechism of the Catholic Church and come to know the One True Church.

          • johnnysc

            Jesus Christ and His Church, the Catholic Church, are One and the Same. The teachings of the Catholic Church are the teachings of Jesus. Sure….many protestant denominations will profess to loving Jesus but are they following Jesus? Many do not believe in the necessity of a church and even religion. So they look to separate Jesus from His Church. One only need to look at the many protestant denominations that hold to women ordination, accept homosexual marriage and even abortion (not to mention the many interpretations of God’s Word) to see the result of that.

          • desiree madden

            Johnny,I did not call The Mass or Sacraments Minutia.It is obvious that there is a place in your understanding that is somehow blocked,or unwilling to see the relevance of this outreach from Pope Francis to leadership of other Christians who JESUS includes at HIS TABLE.The matter is not about theological correctness,Truth, liturgy or whatever your quote of enthusiasm supposes.It is not about exclusion for goodness sake. THE GOSPEL is news that must be lived and shared and promoted for the dead and dying millions of lost souls.JESUS does not demand everyone be Catholic.How do you suppose people of varying backgrounds and diverse tradition are ever to inspect or venture toward THE CHURCH without Catholics going to them???? It is only to their credit that protestants of all kinds aggressively reach out to the lost and evangelize more so than any Catholic groups I know. You bring up valid points about denominations who obscure and TRUTH to their own designs and we are right to disagree.However this subject is not about differences.It is about the Unity of THE BODY OF CHRIST,sorely fragmented and therefore Weak,in it’s strength to effect the culture. The fact that evangelical groups or even fundamental ones (and not including the very erroneous ultra liberal interpretations and groups ) are being appealed to should be a joyous response from those of us who are Blessed to be Catholic.Did you listen to Tony Palmers’ plea/ discussion? He was and is being used by GOD to extend to those (pentecostal) believers an acceptance on their part to move toward reconciliation with Catholics.Have you never MEDITATED on JESUS’ prayer about all of us who believe in HIM and therefore THE FATHER, to be ONE during the discourse right before HIS CRUCIFIXION? It is the only prayer not answered as yet by HIS VERY HEARTFELT REQUEST TO HIS FATHER! Since there is so much evil and darkness pervading the planet and THE CHURCH is GODS PLAN “A” how is it in your view that “business as usual” will change anything.Since GOD IS UNCHANGING,it is up to us to change our thinking ,not our conviction.I have plenty more to share and hope you would be willing to do so also.Peace

          • johnnysc

            Absolutely Christ wants all in His Church, the Catholic Church thats why we need to get out there and evangelize and tell protestants of the One True Church. No need for you to share more. I have these words fromPope Francis to share with you…..

            “It is an absurd dichotomy to love Christ without the Church; to listen to Christ, but not the Church; to be with Christ at the margins of the Church,” he said. “One cannot do this. It is an absurd dichotomy.”

          • Patrick

            “It is an absurd dichotomy to love Christ without the Church; to listen to Christ, but not the Church; to be with Christ at the margins of the Church,” he said. “One cannot do this. It is an absurd dichotomy.”

            And why, oh why did Pope Francis not say this to these people when he had the chance?!?

          • JohnnyCuredents

            “Minutia”? The sacraments are “minutia”? The Catholic Mass is ”minutia”? Apostolic succession is “minutia”? Like Fr. Ronald Knox, I am deeply suspicious of enthusiasm (no, in religion it’s not something at all positive, despite current secular usage). This post makes abundantly clear why any Catholic should treat that phenomenon — not at all ‘modern’ or ‘recent’ in the history of the Church, but rather a periodically recurring plague — with maximum circumspection.

  • Gordis85

    I liked Papa Francis’s message. It can and should be applied to all Catholics within the Church as well. We can be united in Christ as fellow believers without compromising our faith as Catholics…it will continue to take much prayer, trust, and above all, humility.

    In the end though…God’s will will be done. Jesus has prayed for it, and the Father will see to it.

    Viva il Papa! God bless these Pentecostal ministers for their willingness to listen to what our Holy Father had to say.

    • johnnysc

      I’m not sure how we come to the conclusion that we are preaching the same Gospel though. So we are no longer to evangelize protestants? The reason we are to evangelize is because we are not united in Christ. I’m okay and your okay sure sounds like no need to evangelize.

      • ElizD

        If you watch the video, Anthony Palmer, an Anglican cleric, pretty effectively does evangelize them for Catholicism. He really does. On a few points his beliefs diverge a bit from our own. But he rather powerfully evangelizes them on other points, and they’re able to listen to him about it and cheer and pray for Christian unity and for the Pope.

        • johnnysc

          I’m not so sure that it isn’t evangelizing Catholics to his protestant church. When Pope Francis made that comment about being obsessive about abortion what happened? It didn’t change the pro abortion hearts to the Catholic Church teaching. They thanked him for seeing it their way. If protestants are cheering because they think the Church is coming closer to their teaching then isn’t that false ecumenism?

        • Andrew Maritim

          Who is the Elijah the prophet of this time as he said? Himself or the Pope Francis?

  • Timothy Reid

    Very glad to have seen this. Fr. Jim Martin posted it on his Facebook. Francis is doing what Christ asked for when He prayed that “they all may be one”. I’m sure many people will say that Francis did wrong by sending this message to a Protestant gathering, but let them. The Anglican bishop presented it very well to a Pentecostal group. It was risky for him to laud the pope and the Church like he did and I’m grateful for that.

  • tower_of_london

    As a Catholic who studied to be a pastor in the Assemblies of God (a charismatic tradition), I find the Pope’s outreach to be inspiring. Unitatis Redintegratio (the Decree on Ecumenism) from Vatican II describes Protestants as our “brothers and sisters” in Christ who subsist in the Catholic Church by virtue of their baptism. Subsisting in the Church is not the same as being Catholic. Subsisting together does not mean that we agree on all things. This connection does not mean that the truth of the Catholic Church is to be set aside. But it does mean that we have a common bond with our Christian brothers and sisters, a real and substantial bond that must be nurtured with Christ’s vision at the forefront — the vision that we may be one. This friendship and outreach should not be startling or confusing to Catholics or Protestants. Christ urged us to leave the 99 to find the 1. Do we not need to leave our own to find each other? Christ urged us to look outside of ourselves as much for our own renewal as he did for 1. Christ urged us to be salt and light. Christ dined with tax collectors and sinners. Christ was accused of fraternizing with the wrong people and confusing the truth and mixing his messages. How is sharing friendship with fellow brothers and sisters in Christ anything but good? The Pope rightly finds himself in their midst and in doing so shows us all that the virtue of charity is the path of unity. Bishop Palmer is to be equally commended!

    • johnnysc

      Jesus Christ is the Way, the Truth and the Life.
      Jesus founded the Catholic Church.
      The Church is the pillar and foundation of Truth.

      Does Truth matter in salvation? Does Billy Graham need to be evangelized?

      • tower_of_london

        Yes. And yes. We all need to be evangelized. The Apostle Paul worked out his salvation with fear and trembling. Are we above him?

        • johnnysc

          Glad to hear it. I also hold dear those words from St. Paul when I am asked about salvation. Of course protestants would conclude that he is saved because he has a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. The Catholic Church says that it is possible he can be saved even though he is outside the Church. But I am asking if he needs to be evangelized into the Catholic Church. Some Catholics uphold him as one who brought many to Christ and that may be true but not to His Church and what of the many that he led from the One True Church? Will that mean anything? I don’t know which is why I asked if Truth does matter in salvation. When protestants go on mission trips we hear of the good work they do but doesn’t their mission include converting Catholics to whatever their particular denomination is and out of the Church that Jesus founded? So I guess I’m a little surprised that many are looking at this as a kumbaya moment when it is quite possible that these protestants are looking at as making inroads in evangelizing Catholics.

          • Mark D

            Very Good Point.

          • Sky

            There are some difficult doctrinal and theological issues here. In fact, the Catholic Church does indeed say that there is no salvation outside of the Catholic Church. Boniface VIII, I think, was most dogmatic in defining this teaching to include all non-Christians, schismatics, and heretics. He is very explicit and forceful. He states that he is defining this as a dogma with his full apostolic authority.

            At the same time Church teaching allows for the salvation of those who are without guilt in their separation.It even allows for the salvation of non-Christians who are given God’s grace in ways we do not necessarily perceive. Thus there are a couple of difficulties understanding and accepting the entire teaching of the Church. Also, as in many other doctrinal matters, this seems to be a contradiction that requires careful examination and distinctions.

            Finally, recalling the teaching of the Lord that there is no salvation without eating His Body and drinking His Blood, it should be pretty obvious that we need to lead separated brothers and sisters to the Catholic Church if we are interested in their salvation.

            By the way, to evangelize means to introduce someone to Christ. It does not mean to convert someone who already believes in Him. Someone like Billy Graham does not need evangelizing. He needs enlightenment.

          • desiree madden

            Thank you for for sharing!

      • Sicelo Alex Lokothwayo

        JOHN 17:17 Its truth which makes us Holy. Sound Doctrine which we are encouraged by Paul to Study 2 Timothy 2:15. And Jesus is the truth John 1:14 thus without sound doctrine, the unity which is sought is but a city with a proper foundation which will be swept away by the storm that is Coming Revelation 13: 10:-18. its also fascinating that this message is fulfilling Revelation 13 because the Catholic bishop is the antichrist leader. 2 Thessalonians 2: 1-12. The SUNDAY LAW IS COMING FASTER THAN I THOUGHT. GOD HAVE MERCY ON US. Prepare for the Time of trouble such as never was. Rome never changes. She will persecute again Revelation 13:15…..Matthew 11: 28 come unto Jesus. Him alone is worthy to be worshipped. Come only to him Isaiah 1: 18 because He is the only one who can forgive sin, not the Catholic priests nor the Pope.

      • RICHARD

        The roman catholic church is a fake church, it is only an attempt of constantine to combine paganism with christianity,,,,,…. constantine founded the roman catholic church.,… THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH KILLED 50 MILLION PEOPLE THROUGHOUT HISTORY,,,…. ITS A FAKE CHURCH…. IT ONLY RELY ON FAKE DECRETALS TO PROVE THAT ST. PETER IS THE FIRST POPE LIKE THE PSEUDO ISIDORIAN DECRETALS……

        • Charles Obryan

          finally, someone who knows what they are talking about.

      • RICHARD

        THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH DOESNT TEACH THE TRUE GOSPEL OF CHRIST…..

        JESUS SAID ON JOHN 14:6 I AM THE WAY THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE… NO MAN COMES TO THE FATHER EXCEPT THROUGH ME….
        THE BIBLE SAID
        1 Timothy 2:5
        For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus,

        • Lizop

          what about all of the idolatry in the Catholic church. Then there’s pergatory, so many issues. I won’t be uniting with them.

      • Charles Obryan

        No, the Roman Catholic Church was a government prior to being a church. after the Romans killed Christ they killed millions of people and then claimed the church. A history that can be researched and hidden in plain site. The Roman Catholic church is the false Church spoken of in Revelations.

      • Charles Obryan

        and yes, jesus is the way, the truth and the life, not the Catholic church or any church

    • Mark D.

      Being a former Assemblies o God pastor, you must know that Kenneth Copeland is not someone to be aligned with. Right? He is not the voice of he Pentecostal faith.

      • tower_of_london

        What are you saying exactly? Are you saying that Christians can’t be charitable to each other unless we all agree? KC may not be the voice of the Pentecostal faith, but with 33,000 denominations charity has to start somewhere. At least KC is charitable. It’s the hostility of Christians towards other Christians that drives people away. Jesus said, “They will know you are Christians by your love.”

        • Mark D.

          Not sure about the 33,000 “legitimate” denominations. That’s questionable. Google is not a good source of information such as “the World Christian Encyclopedia.” It depends upon how research is compiled. Then again it might be true and that is a terrible indictment on the instability of Christians and their so called churches. Being charitable is not the issue. The issue is who you align yourself with. Don’t you not think it would be better for the Pope to align himself and the Catholic Church with a legitimate group such as the Assemblies of God instead of a group that deny the atoning power of the blood of Jesus at the Cross? Did the Vatican even search out the doctrinal views of as you say of KC prior to this conference. I can think of a number of Protestant Pentecostals that would be better for the Vatican to converse with than KC. I guess any millionaire can be charitable. But that does not make him creditable. We are to love all people but we do not have to agree with them. So loving others is not the issue. There are many New Testament passages that give warning concerning false teachers and how to treat them. Love was not the issue in these passages either. The sound doctrine of Jesus Christ was. And those who do not teach sound doctrine, we are to flee from. Thanks for your Post. Peace.

      • RIC

        YOU ARE NOT A FORMER ASSEMBLY OF GOD PASTOR… YOU ARE A LIAR

    • desiree madden

      Amen!

    • Don Campbell

      The 99/1 sheep parable assumes that the 99 are relatively safe and only 1 is lost. Would you leave the 99 to chase the 1 if you knew that in doing so 5 would be devoured in your absence? Or what if, rather than 1, it was 40 out of 100 that were lost, and what if those 40 were scattered in many different directions? And what if 40 of the remaining 60 are likely to wander off while you are out chasing 1s and 2s because your voice has become confusing and distant to them? And what if some of those “lost sheep” you’re chasing are really wolves in sheep’s clothing waiting to devour us? Maybe God has allowed them to harden their hearts and is using them as “vessels of destruction”?

      • tower_of_london

        It’s Jesus’ parable, not mine. And it seems he practiced it. He preached to Pharisees (who he called a “brood of vipers”) and converted Joseph of Arimathea. He made a tax collector a disciple, Matthew, and another he asked to join him at his home, Zacheus. He made a women of disrepute honored for washing his feet. He took a persecutor and murderer (of Steven) and personally appeared to him, the apostle Paul. Perfect love casts out fear. We evangelize everyone and the cost is great. That’s Jesus’ whole point. If we’re devoured by wolves, it’s our cross and his glory, not a reason to avoid what we’re called to.

        • Andrew Maritim

          He did not have to take along time looking for the one sheep.. like Moses in Mt Sinai who came back to find the whole flock deceived!

    • Sky

      Are you sure it says “subsists” in the Catholic Church? I thought the phrase was that these separated brethren are “ordered to” the Catholic Church. There is a big difference in the meaning. I do know that Vatican II says that the original Church of Christ “subsists” in the Catholic Church, but in the context (and original Latin) it is clear that the meaning is simply that the Catholic Church is the true and original Church of Christ.

      • tower_of_london

        Unitatis Redintegratio. Chapter 1, Clause 3 and 4 (excerpts) For men who believe in Christ and have been truly baptized are in communion with the Catholic Church even though this communion is imperfect. The ecumenical movement is striving to overcome these obstacles. But even in spite of them it remains true that all who have been justified by faith in Baptism are members of Christ’s body,(21) and have a right to be called Christian, and so are correctly accepted as brothers by the children of the Catholic Church. This is the way that, when the obstacles to perfect ecclesiastical communion have been gradually overcome, all Christians will at last, in a common celebration of the Eucharist, be gathered into the one and only Church in that unity which Christ bestowed on His Church from the beginning. We believe that this unity subsists in the Catholic Church as something she can never lose, and we hope that it will continue to increase until the end of time.

  • Guest

    Yeah, but Mr. Palmer has a little bit different take on this. He wants to evangelize Catholics. The Pope wants to work together.

  • Mark D.

    I have several problems with this. Firstly, Kenneth Copeland is NOT the authoritative or doctrinally sound voice of the Pentecostal faith in America. His teachings are not even remotely similar to the Catholic Church. There are many, many doctrinal errors in the “Word of Faith” movement that Kenneth Copeland believes in. Furthermore, he is a man of great financial excesses and preaches wealth accumulation based upon a mans faith. (Prosperity Gospel) He also teaches that Christ died spiritually, went to hell as a sinner to be tortured by demons then and only then He was fit to return to earth. He also believes that because man was made in the image and likeness of God that man too can become “little gods.” There is so much wrong with this alliance. I understand that Pope Francis is a man reaching across boundaries but Kenneth Copeland is a far stretch into apostasy. Why not reach out to legitimate Pentecostal group that there is something in common like the Assemblies of God? I do not consider Kenneth Copeland a real Protestant or Pentecostal. Don’t take my word for it. Look up what he believes and what the Word of Faith doctrine teaches. It will astound you. Catholics need toe exposing them instead of embracing them.

    • tower_of_london

      I’m struggling to understand your anxiety. On your first point, who is the “authoritative or doctrinally sound” voice of the pentecostal faith? And why should the Pope or anyone be limited to only evangelizing the most legitimate among us? There are dozens and dozens of pentecostal churches, hundreds if you count all the non-denomination churches. Who gets to say they are authoritative within pentecostalism or that one is legitimate and another is not? On your second question as to why the Pope reached out to Bishop Palmer and KC, he did so for a simple reason — his love and firendship for Bishop Palmer and for all people. Jesus loves who he encounters. This Pope is being natural and is simply sharing the faith and goodwill with all who he encounters. The faith is a person, not a program. And the person is Jesus and Jesus is love.

      • Don Campbell

        I don’t like it. Would prefer the Pope send him a video saying, “I love you, brother but you are a heretic and need to convert because your soul is in peril. But, the Pope seems to subscribe to the modernist view that everyone (even atheists!) is going to heaven if they are a good person, so why should silly doctrines keep us apart. He frustrates me. There’s a line between “evangelization” and making nice with hardened enemies of the faith.

      • Mark D.

        My “anxiety” as you call it is due to knowing about this man and his beliefs. I have no problem reaching out to all people. We all need Christ the Savior. I have been drawn to the Catholic church because I believe it is a sound and true doctrine. I know how dangerous this group and man is to the Christian faith. It has caused much division and turmoil in the Assemblies of God and other Pentecostal groups. That’s were my anxiety comes from. I applaud Pope Francis for reaching out but if you know anything about Copeland and his teaching you would know they will use this to their advantage not the Community of the Body of Christ. You said a mouthful when you said, “Who gets to say they are authoritative within pentecostalism or that one is legitimate and another is not?” Great point. That is the problem with not having a Magisterium. This is one of the things I love the Catholic church. Maybe Pope Francis can help transform Copeland’s thinking. Reaching out is not the problem but to give credence to Copeland being a legitimate voice for Pentecostals is absurd. Thanks for the post. Peace to all.

        • tower_of_london

          Peace!

  • Laura Lowder

    I had a lot of respect for Kenneth Copeland, back in my Protestant days, because he spends a lot more time promoting discipleship — holiness — than charismatic experiences, euphorias, and the like.

    Yes, Copeland and his friends are going to be seeing Francis through Protestant eyes — but as FrEric posts, in these comments, by golly! that they listened to him at all, instead of immediately pronouncing him the antichrist and the presider over the whore of Babylon speaks volumes about the changes that are occurring. Imagine the greater changes that are coming!

    Glory, Hallelujah!!!

    • Mikhael Roy

      Strange happening. Pope must have read Fatima third secret and st Malachi prophecy about him being last pope. He knows time is over for Roman Church. Why not get evangelicals on board. So maybe destiny could be rewritten. Satan man the anti christ is already running vatican behind the seen. Fr. Malachi Martin a catholic priest who worked in vatican closely with pope. He said many homosexual priests and nuns have already enthroned Lucifer in Vatican. Many denominations not far behind. Great apostasy and falling away is hitting all denominations. End is around the corner. Lord have mercy

    • shipsailed

      The Pope is also calling for Muslims to join them in the Unity, the One World Church….Muslims do not worship the same God. This is a problem for all who believe in the One True God, Father Yahweh and Yahshua. Change does not mean that change is either right or good. There is only one God.
      Careful what tickles your ear.

  • Bill

    I watched the video and was certainly impressed by Pope Francis’ outreach to the gathering of various Protestant denominations. In his talk, Fr. Palmer made a few doctrinal mistakes when he was speaking about Catholicism which was a surprise to me considering that his spiritual director was Archbishop Broglio. In his reference to the Lutheran-Catholic Joint Declaration of 1999 on the Doctrine of Justification he certainly stated that the Catholic doctrine of justification, prior to that time was corrected by that joint declaration, which is false. The Church never held that belief of salvation through works. The Catholic Church has never taught such a doctrine and, in fact, has constantly condemned the notion that men can earn or merit salvation. Of course it is good that the Joint Declaration was made in that it put to rest [or should have but didn't] any misunderstanding of the Catholic Church’s doctrine of justification. I firmly believe that those at the conference did not have the same understanding of what it means that the church should be one. For them, the unity of Christians lies in their believe that that unity is fulfilled by their belief in Christ. For us Catholics, we go further in that the fullness of Christian unity lies only in the Catholic Church.

    • MarkD.

      This I agree.

      • S.L. Hansen

        Palmer is an Anglican. Any spiritual direction he received from Archbishop Broglio was informal in nature. All in all, it’s not really surprising that he has some Catholic teaching and history wrong.

    • Despeville

      “… The Church never held that belief of salvation through works. The Catholic Church has never taught such a doctrine…”
      ~ Bill

      You need to study up on your religion before you try to connect with other i.e. Christian Faith. Proof:

      “CANON IX.-If any one saith, that by faith alone the impious is justified; in such wise as to mean, that nothing else is required to CO-OPERATE in order to the obtaining the grace of J U S T I F I CA T I O N, and that it is not in any way necessary, that he be prepared and disposed by the movement of his own will; let him be anathema.”

      Council of Trent, The Sixth Session, CANON IX, January, 1547

      Now you may argue that works are not part of this co-operation in obtaining the grace of justification but for those of us who appreciate logic and meaning of the words and evidence of history that is not going to cut it and will only prove that you have no earthly no heavenly idea about what you are talking about even though you are Roman Catholic in your profession.

      • hows_the_boy

        That canon is an anathema against denial of free will rather than the requirement of works for salvation.

        • Despeville

          :P Sure… You are macerating the meaning and twisting it to escape the obvious conclusion. So according to you to CO-OPERATE to OBTAIN JUSTIFICATION is solely in a realm of internal day dreaming? :) Kind of theorem only without any actual doing? :) What do you know about Roman Catholicism? I do not think you know much. This is their black on white works in justification teaching and their practice confirms that every single day in every single RC parish in the world. Q.E.D. I know it for a fact because I studied it and I practiced it you do not know it but you will not allow those facts to enter your thinking because of your preferences and bias.

          • AnneG

            Despeville, The Council of Trent harmonizes the necessity of grace and works: “If anyone says that man can be justified before God by his own works, whether done by his own natural powers or by the teaching of the Law, without divine grace through Jesus Christ, let him be anathema” (Session 6; can. 1).
            James 2:14 What does it profit, my brethren, if a man says he has faith but has not works? Can his faith save him?* 15If a brother or sister is ill-clad and in lack of daily food, 16and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what does it profit? 17So faith by itself, if it has no works, is dead.
            So, you can take one statement from the Council of Trent that somebody else told you and misuse it. I can show you hundreds of magisterial teaching, then Scripture. Read up from Catholic sources, first, then we’ll chat.

          • Despeville

            A. None told me…:) B. Do not amuse me with your “hundreds” allegations for I am sure you cannot deliver on even a small portion of that. C. RC teaching has to be understood in its historicity and duplicity and speaking from both sides of the issue and I am presenting the side of pseudo and damning “salvation through works” which is also verified historically and practically as official and ruling in Roman Church despite many positions taken simultaneously through many documents more or less intentionally obfuscating the issue. D. Council of Trent IS RC OFFICIAL sources and IS valid in case you are not aware of that and your very own Catechism is constantly referring to the documents of Trent as a base for its teachings.

            Yes, you can find statements that can support your assertion that does not mean that there is no emphasis on PRACTICE of WORKS to GAIN SALVATION in line with what I quoted. Notice that you CANNOT touch or disprove what I quoted so far you can only quote something else to divert. I never said that RC is teaching exclusively salvation by works ONLY. I f you would understood that you would not puerilely quoted first canon from Sixth session while failing to grasp the context and the multiplicity of what was said there because you did not bother to read the rest… You do not understand the difference. The Gospel teaches that the Grace of God is SUFFICIENT to save the sinner why pseudo gospel of Rome teaches that the Grace of God is only NECESSARY to save and must be supplemented by works of co-operation of the sinner to make salvation real and effective. Please do not repeat to me the classic abuse of James 2 by Rome. You do not understand that text either for if you would then you would understand FIRST the example given by James to illustrate and prove what he is teaching about justification before God and verification of it before men in James 2 and that is the example of Abram/Abraham. Abram was declared righteous before God solely by faith in Genesis 15:6 only to do the commended by James 2 “work” of faith of Akedah (binding of Isaac) WHOLE THIRTY YEARS LATER in Genesis 22:12. According to your worn out and nauseating eisegesis of James 2 Abram could not possibly be saved in Genesis 15 UNTIL he “worked it out in cooperation” his commended work of faith in Genesis 22 but that is NOT what James is saying nor what is Genesis teaching. In Genesis 15 Abram is justified before God. In Genesis 22 Abraham work is exemplifying that justification BEFORE MEN.

            What you alluded is a classic Roman handicapped abuse of those texts and crowds following this blatant untruth in sheer volume of complete ignorance of the example of Abraham given by James to understand the concept of true salvation producing good works even if DECADES later . Please do not down talk to me about your Roman Religion where you are an “expert” and I am the “novice” for it is apparent to me that you do not understand fully what you try to defend. In fact I am rather certain that until today you have never read anything from Council of Trent not to mention this session on Justification as Rome sees it… :) I am a former RC, have priests in my family, have visited numerous RC seminaries on two continents and their libraries. Here is another proof for Roman teaching for justification before God THROUGH works that you did not bother to read:

            “CANON XXXII.-If any one saith, that the good works of one that is justified are in such manner the gifts of God, as that they ARE NOT ALSO the good merits of him that is justified; or, that the said justified, by the good works which he performs through the grace of God and the merit of Jesus Christ, whose living member he is, DOES NOT TRULY MERIT increase of grace, eternal life, and the ATTAINMENT of that eternal life,-if so be, however, that he depart in grace,-and also an increase of glory; let him be anathema.”

            Council of Trent, The Sixth Session, CANON XXXII, January, 1547

            Q.E.D.

            Yes, The Council of Trent of Roman Church ACCURSED to hell the Gospel of Christ and its teaching along with all those who believe in that given from above Gospel. The documents and pronouncements of this Council are as valid today and constantly referred to in Roman Religion as they were 451 years ago… Terrifyingly all of that is utterly lost on naive and duped Pentecostals as is on massively ignorant of their own religion Roman Catholics. Fraudulently proclaimed “love” is not love but the most perverse expression of cunning hate. The truth is the love and that was given to you in this post and others.

            Sapere Aude

          • AnneG

            Despeville, I’ll tell you what. I’ll pray for you. Your excuse that you have priests in the family and were raised Catholic is always a red flag for somebody who is going to say something incorrect, has no idea, but believes their error. Bless your heart. You are still picking and choosing minutiae and obviously do not know what merit means either. Quit reading some of those antiCatholic screeds long enough to learn what Catholics actually believe before you attack. And you are attacking, you know. Lord, Have Mercy!

          • Despeville

            :) So now when I showed from RC sources how deeply ignorant and misinformed you are and how you repeat the abuse of James 2 in your defense of Roman pseudo Gospel your only response is that you will “pray for me”? Wait, I have seen it and seen it hundreds of times.

            Does this type of lame and shallow rhetoric not bother you if you are in the truth? If you are in and of the truth why you have to evade like that and have no substance? Tell you what. I do not not want you to pray for me for you have a false “god” and false “gospel”. Therefore every time you pray you are blaspheming. And to not be shallow and empty talker I will prove that to you and again from your very own RC sources on which you are supposedly an expert and I do not know… Your “god” is the same “god” whom Muslims have and who are in fact your brothers in faith and of course that is not Triune God of the Word despite the fraudulent assertions made elsewhere.

            “The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. “The plan of salvation ALSO INCLUDES those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom ARE the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and TOGETHER WITH US they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.”

            Catechism of The Roman Catholic Church point 841

            Official Vatican Link: http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P29.HTM

            But then again I am rather certain that you actually never read that before despite being an expert on your Roman Catholicism…

            Yes you are worshipping utterly different “God” and that is black on white in the book from your Church presenting the official tenets of your faith.

            Sapere Aude

          • AnneG

            I admit I’m lame, shallow and a sinner. I don’t want to hijack this thread anymore with this duel. I’m really interested in your theology and how you came to the conclusions you have. And, yes, I have read the Catechism, including the text on Muslims and understand it. I’ve also read a pretty good survey of the Fathers, all of Scripture, a fair amount of various council documents, speak 3 languages, and have worked in the OR for years. Again, bless your heart. I’m praying for you.

          • Despeville

            Anne,

            None of that changes anything, particularly the fact that you are unable to factually answer to arguments presented to you from your very own religion sources and from the Word of God itself. There is no “my theology” and everything I told you about James 2 is backed up in Genesis 15 and 22 in the very example James is making in chapter 2. As to Roman Catholicism all I said is also backed up by Roman Catholic sources. If you are not troubled that your religion professes different God than the One in the Scriptures that is only a further proof to my points. Your prayers are useless and condemning if directed to “god” or RC Catechism point 841…

            Sapere Aude

          • AnneG

            Despeville, not can’t. Choose not to. I asked you a question and you still choose to throw rocks. I suspect you are just another atheist troll.

          • Despeville

            John 15:18-19

      • http://ashesfromburntroses.blogspot.com/ Manny

        You don’t even know how to read. Where does it say faith alone? Of the dozens of places where it is shown in the bible that one’s actions have to compliment one’s faith, the most obvious is Matthew 25:31-46. “He will answer them, ‘Amen, I say to you, what you did not do for one of these least ones, you did not do for me.’”

        • kathyschiffer

          There is one place in Scripture where the Bible does mention “faith alone.” It’s in James 2:24. “You see that a man is justified by works and NOT by faith alone.”

          • http://ashesfromburntroses.blogspot.com/ Manny

            Yes I know that Kathy. It was mentioned below by others. And protestants have some stock answer for that, which is wrong of course, but I find Matthew 25 to be irresputable and coming straight from Christ’s lips.

          • Despeville

            Well I presented to you an answer to your mechanical abuse of Matthew 25 and even James 2 and a full hour before you wrote this puerile evasion above. How much did you actually interact with that? ZERO. How much of that you could possibly refute? Again, Z E R O… but you nevertheless go on ranting about “stock” answers even though I am sure you have not seen this answer before and go on in your childish incantations of this “surely being wrong” even though you have no iota of proof nor factual idea nor rational argument from the Word of God why it is wrong… :P You just have been indoctrinated to react that way and you do and on full auto pilot too…

            Emotions and traditions of men are truly powerful and ruthless masters as exemplified in you.

            Sapere aude

          • http://ashesfromburntroses.blogspot.com/ Manny

            Your answer is all nonsense. You are twisting the very words that are on the page. The goats have faith but they failed to do the works required of them. Right from Christ’s lips. They failed. You can twist anyway you want but you are distorting the very meaning that’s on the page. Have a good evening. There is no sense in talking to you. Your mind is fixed.

          • Despeville

            “Your answer is all nonsense. You are twisting the very words that are on the page.”

            You are unable to substantiate that. You can only emotionally assert that and that is NOT the same…

            “The goats have faith but they failed to do the works required of them. Right from Christ’s lips.”

            Where? Where does it say that goats had faith? NOWHERE. Where does Christ say that in Matthew 25 or ANYWHERE in the Scriptures? Where? NOWHERE. More importantly where does it say that the goats had saving faith? NOWHERE. It is a lie flowing from your traditions of men but not the truth or fact from the text. Do you realize that this is another proof to your completely other and alien to the Gospel of Christ religion??? You are lying and in fact blaspheming Christ by imputing to him YOUR lies.

            “You can twist anyway you want but you are distorting the very meaning that’s on the page.”

            That is only your indoctrination speaking but NOT any reasonable proof nor the text about which you lie and lie so blasphemously. You are crying what you are utterly incapable of providing and demonstrating…

            “There is no sense in talking to you. Your mind is fixed.”
            :) That is only your lame attempt of placating your shaken religious ego and covering the fact that you have no true nor factual answers and you know it. I am waiting for those answers and I guess what I have presented them to RCs in hundreds. Including RC PhDs. None of them have any answers to that but lame and cheap evasions of your type i.e. “There is no sense in talking to you.” or “I will pray for you”… :) That is the best what Roman Catholicism can produce. A cheap and lame illusion. You had a chance to correct me out of “my error” but your ability to do so is so mysterious that you actually cannot produce it… :P Well that is exactly what all these priests and other purveyors of your religion can do as well.

            Emotions and traditions of men are truly powerful and ruthless masters as exemplified in you.

            Sapere aude

          • http://ashesfromburntroses.blogspot.com/ Manny

            The goats had faith and did not follow thorugh with works. Period. Ha! My faith is not shaken in the least. Now you’re insulting. Get lost. You’re a hopelsess case. And a waste of my time.

          • Despeville

            One more time where does it say that? Where does it say that goats have any faith so much more saving faith?????You cannot show it from the text itself for you cannot prove it from the text itself despite and in spite your fraudulent asserting of the text. I am asking you again and again but you do not answer for you do not have the answer for you operate from traditions and legends of men and not from the Word of God. That much is clear for anyone who has a fairly functioning reasoning faculty.

            “Get lost”? :) Wow, what a depth of argumentation… What a civilized discourse and way of thinking and talking… So typical for indoctrinated. “Waste of time” ? Somehow you had time to come in and post your lame evasions but not any proof for your legends of confused men. This type of behavior is so consistent for perplexed Roman Catholics who claim to be of Christian Faith while being so alien to the source of Christian revelation – The Word of God.

            Emotions and traditions of men are truly powerful and ruthless masters as exemplified in you.

            For God’s Glory and benefit of other readers. Nowhere in Matthew 25:31-46 we are told that “goats had faith”. That is a cultish confabulation and crude and brutish eisegesis and nothing else. When goats address God in Matthew 25:44 as “Lord” on the Judgment Day it is not a sign of their “faith” as theological cults would have us to believe but only their realization of who He is on the last day of all days and in perfect unison with the rest of the Scripture as for example with this which says exactly that, i.e. that even unbelieving goats on that day, the day of wrath with confess with their tongues that HE IS THE LORD:

            “…For we will all stand before the JUDGMENT SEAT of God; for it is written,“As I live, says the Lord, EVERY knee shall bow to me,and EVERY TONGUE SHALL CONFESS TO GOD.”
            (Romans 14:10-11, ESV)

            Soli Deo Gloria

          • http://ashesfromburntroses.blogspot.com/ Manny

            Cultish? Hahahaha, now you are pulling out all the prejudices against Catholics in your bag of hatred.

            One more time where does it say that? Where does it say that goats have any faith so much more saving faith?????

            Verse 44: “Then they will answer and say, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or ill or in prison, and not minister to your needs?’”

            Do you have difficulty comprehending? Of course they know who Christ is. They called Him Lord. Thery are expecting to pass through because they had faith. But Christ demanded more than just faith. Faith was necessary but so was feeding the hungry, and so on. Learn how to read. Good day. Purge your hatred and stop your insults. They are sinful.

          • Despeville

            “Do you have difficulty comprehending? Of course they know who Christ is. They called Him Lord. Thery are expecting to pass through because they had faith. ”

            You are entranced in a serial obfuscation for you do not want to see arguments displacing your spell that were GIVEN to you before you even wrote this. And then on the top of it you are talking down while complaining about “insults”… Wow. What a hypocrisy. Again from my post that was posted a FULL HOUR BEFORE you posted thsese inane excuses of yours:

            “…When goats address God in Matthew 25:44 as “Lord” on the Judgment Day it is not a sign of their “faith” as theological cults would have us to believe but only their realization of who He is on the last day of all days and in perfect unison with the rest of the Scripture as for example with this which says exactly that, i.e. that even unbelieving goats on that day, the day of wrath with confess with their tongues that HE IS THE LORD:

            “…For we will all stand before the JUDGMENT SEAT of God; for it is written,“As I live, says the Lord, EVERY knee shall bow to me,and EVERY TONGUE SHALL CONFESS TO GOD.”
            (Romans 14:10-11, ESV)”

            Calling Jesus Lord on the Day of Judgment IS NOT automatic sign of previous faith as QUOTED again Romans 14:10-11 proves AGAIN… Additionally if according to your cultist misrepresentation of Matthew 25 everyone “has faith” on the Day of Judgment where are those without faith? According to your brutal eisegesis all on the Day of Judgment have faith… So the whole world was believing? The entire world is apparently believing yet that is so completely and utterly opposite to what the Bible says on end times and the Day of Judgment.

            Do not be afraid to think past the indoctrination sold to you… Connect the dots to see the utter nonsense and lies you have believed in while ignorantly violating the text and its context.

          • http://ashesfromburntroses.blogspot.com/ Manny

            You’re not a nice man, in addition to being unable to read at adult level. Begone.

          • Despeville

            “NICE” has nothing to do with what is presented before your veiled eyes and to which you are unable to respond in reason and substance. “nice” has as much to do with the truth presented to you as what color of socks you had a week ago… You reverting to “nice” now is just a sad proof of your nefarious indoctrination and your utter inability to verify claims of your “only true religion” of Rome… “nice” Instead has everything to do with where you are now and what was sold to you to destroy your soul for ever. So here is a definition of orgins of your “nice” of which again you are unaware of just as you are unaware of the origins of your man made religion taking your life away:

            nice (adj.) late 13c., “foolish, stupid, senseless,” from Old French nice (12c.) “careless, clumsy; weak; poor, needy; simple, stupid, silly, foolish,” from Latin nescius “ignorant, unaware,” literally “not-knowing,” from ne- “not” (see un-) + stem of scire “to know” (see science). “The sense development has been extraordinary, even for an adj.” [Weekley] — from “timid” (pre-1300); to “fussy, fastidious” (late 14c.); to “dainty, delicate” (c.1400); to “precise, careful” (1500s, preserved in such terms as a nice distinction and nice and early); to “agreeable, delightful” (1769); to “kind, thoughtful” (1830).

            Etymology Dictionary

            You have believed a lie and that is why you have to lie about Judgment Day scene in Matthew 25. It is an utter foolishness and nauseating lie to believe that ALL PEOPLE will have “faith” when God comes to judge on the last day but this is a conclusion of your man made religion of lies. Conclusion that you never made before and still refuse to make for you believed men and not God…

            Sapere aude

          • http://ashesfromburntroses.blogspot.com/ Manny

            You really do need to learn how to read. I never said “that ALL PEOPLE will have “faith” when God comes to judge on the last day.” What I said was that the goats in the parable obviously were believers since they addressed Christ as Lord and expected to go through on their relationship to Him. It occured to me that your lack of respect for others must be a product of your belief that all one needs to do is have faith and so you can mistreat others any way you want, and you’ll still be saved. Good bye.

          • Despeville

            You need to take a basic course in logic. It is not only what you think you said but also a logical conclusion of your position even when you are not willing to make it yourself…

            Secondly I showed you from Romans 14:10-11 that everyone will address God as LORD on the Judgment Day, believing or not believing therefore your mechanical eisegesis of 25:44 and LORD address there does not prove “faith” of the goats. How much more plain. methodical, factual I can be for you? No more and you will not see it for you have a veil over your eyes…

            What “occurs” to you is emotionally driven and again FALSE just as your misrepresentation of Matthew 25 is driven by FALSE traditions of men and not the text itself.

            Again, you are in a brutal bondage of FALSEHOOD. Yet tragically you think you are in the truth even though you cannot substantiate that “truth” and cannot reasonably, factually and consistently interact with arguments presented against your “truth”…

          • http://ashesfromburntroses.blogspot.com/ Manny

            Romans 14:10-11: For it is written: “As I live, says the Lord, Every knee shall bow to Me, And every tongue shall confess to God.”

            No where does it say they will be forced to called Him Lord. I really, really hope you get that reading class you really, really need.

          • Despeville

            So when they confess to God on the last day on the Day of Judgment they will be calling Him what according to you? “Mister” ? :) Or they will confess Him as LORD and GOD?
            You know, your capacity for lame and ridiculous evasions is a testimony to where you are and that is in the middle of false and damning religion. God does not have to force anyone to recognize Him as God and Lord on the Day of Wrath. That will be more obvious and more real to ALL than your breath you just took…

            According to your false religion ALL will have faith on the Judgment Day regardless if you will continue being spineless about that claim and not wiling to own up to this obvious conclusion since there is only two groups on the last day representing the entire humanity there.

            Perhaps you are being somewhat consistent here with the rest of damning heresies of Rome which proclaim Muslims as your brothers in faith and Allah as your one and merciful “God” whom you adore and worship with your Muslim brethren according to the teaching of Lumen Gentium signaled in Catechism of RC point 841.

          • http://ashesfromburntroses.blogspot.com/ Manny

            “According to your false religion ALL will have faith on the Judgment Day regardless if you will continue being ”
            You keep misrepresenting the Catholic Church’s position. That has never been the position. I never said that. There’s is either something off with your mental abilities or you’re out to distort and lie. Enough already. You’re not worthy to have a discussion with.

          • Despeville

            Ha, so it is about my “mental abilities”? :) No, it is a simple logic which you never had opportunity to practice. If on a judgment day (C) there is only two groups of people present i.e. goats(A) and sheep(B) as the Bible teaches and if both of these groups “have faith” (X) as your Roman religion teaches then it is only logical, rational and consistent to realize that this Roman position means that all people “have faith” on the judgment day…

            C = A +B

            if AX and BX then: C = AX +BX

            This is a simple logic but your position is massively anti biblical, serially anti rational and rampantly anti logical. Instead your position supports itself on calling challengers to it with simplistic and puerile names as you do here time and time again… This is because you have absolutely nothing else. Just your emotions, traditions and name calling and cannot support your religion from The Scriptures in honest and consistent way. Your name calling is a typical knee jerk reaction and a standard response of a person deeply enslaved in a cult and Roman Catholicism is a cult with false “god” as demonstrated before and demonstrated again below. In that you have indeed so much in common with your brothers in faith worshipping same “god” as you – Muslims which is the official teaching or Romanism expanded in Lumen Gentium document of Vatican II and signaled below in your very own Catechism which you do not even know:

            “The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. “The plan of salvation ALSO INCLUDES those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and TOGETHER WITH US they adore THE ONE, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.”

            Catechism of Roman Catholic Church point 841

            Vatican link: http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P29.HTM

            Veritas Liberabit Vos

          • http://ashesfromburntroses.blogspot.com/ Manny

            I’m just reading the words that are there on the page in the bible. And of course James’s epistle. I thought you were sola scriptura. We’re going round in circles. Peace be with you.

          • Despeville

            No you are not “reading just the words” in the Bible but filter them through your traditions of men as you read them. Additionally, words point to reality and truth they were given to present and not to themselves only. I don’t think you understand what Sola Scriptura is and it is not what Romanism made out of it to herd its people into its folds. Sola Scriptura is not me and the bible under the tree. Sola Scriptura means that God inspired Scripture is THE HIGHEST AUTHORITY for the Christian but not alone authority.

            You are again avoiding the arguments, evading conclusions, and changing the subject because you have nothing to respond with. I do not accept your “peace” for it is a deadly stupor and neither should you and I refuse and refute it.

            Rather, may Lord’s war be with you in the sense and words given to us by true Lord and Saviour:

            “Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. And a person’s enemies will be those of his own household. Whoever loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me, and whoever loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. And whoever does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me. Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.

            (Matthew 10:34-39 ESV)

          • Bill

            Correct. For the Protestant version on “alone’ look to Romans 10 -16 in a Protestant Bible. It was inserted there my Martin Luther because, using his words- the word alone [allein in German] more adequately described the meaning in the text. Luther felt that he alone knew what all those before him for 1500 years were wrong. He was also attacked for this addition to scripture by his fellow “reformers”.

        • Despeville

          :) I was not talking about that at all but about Roman teaching about works as essential part of obtaining justification which is a damning doctrine of Rome. You are changing the subject in your question and assertion but since you ask and repeat nauseating Roman Catholic fiction and conundrum of death let us look at this text you mentioned as one of the few that Roman protagonists so love to misread and abuse for the sake of their greater judgment…

          What is lost on you due to indoctrination from Rome is the black on white fact that God separates sheep from goats on the Day of Wrath – Dies Irae BEFORE ANY WORKS ARE MENTIONED… Yes, in fact God separates his sheep from the goats BEFORE HE UTTERS ONE SINGLE WORD…

          PROOF:

          “Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.”

          (Matthew 25:32, ESV)

          This is done BEFORE even ONE WORD of judgment is uttered by God. God speaks to people AFTER He separates them.

          PROOF:

          “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.” (Matthew 25:34, ESV)

          Only then, after He separates them FIRST, and after He speaks to them as SECOND God starts to account for works.

          PROOF:

          “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.”(Matthew 25:34, ESV)

          What is that mean? It means that you have been duped and cheated and fed false and damning teaching for clearly the works are not basis of separation here. The works are connected to the judgment but are not the deciding factor here. Works only exemplified what sheep do and what goats do not do. Which by the way is in perfect harmony with entire Scripture and particularly with this so on topic teaching:

          PROOF:

          ” For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.”(Ephesians 2:8-10, ESV)

          Sheep did not “cooperated in their salvation” as Roman deadly doctrine teaches… They merely walked in the works PREPARED for them as a result of their PRIOR JUSTIFICATION and that is why they were sheep to begin with on the Day of Judgment before God spoke one word and before any deed was mentioned or judged or accounted for. They were sheep not because of what they did. They did good because they were sheep to begin with according to good will and purpose of God and the scene of The Day of Wrath and its sequence confirms that and affirms that. Furthemore this is precisely the pattern of an example of Abraham given to us in James 2 which is the most abused text in the Bible by Roman Catholics. Abram was JUSTIFIED in Genesis 15:6 whole THIRTY YEARS PRIOR to the work of binding the Isaac in Genesis 22:12 which James mentions as a proof of his PRIOR salvific faith which was good upon salvation for that thirty years BEFORE the work of binding, the Akedah was done as an EXTERNAL PROOF of long existing internal reality of justification before God and salvation in God.

          This is why at the end of his teaching and an example to clarify this teaching in James chapter 2 James says that which is a direct quote from Genesis 15:6

          “and the Scripture was FULFILLED that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”—and he was called a friend of God.” (James 2:23, ESV)

          Thus the work of binding the Isaac – The Akedah was not a part of justification and salvation of Abraham but was done by him to FULFILL his already given by God and through Abram’s faith justification upon salvation WHOLE THIRTY YEARS EARLIER IN Genesis 15:6…

          Big diference. In fact the very difference between being a sheep and a goat. Between justified and reprobate. Between Heaven and Hell…

          Sapere aude

          • http://ashesfromburntroses.blogspot.com/ Manny

            I don’t know where you get all that, but it’s wrong. Clearly right from the lips of Jesus Christ Himself He is saying that a person must do all those things in addition to faith. Matthew 25 is clear, as well as James Epistle. You must be a righteous person and have faith. The people Christ separates as goats all have faith, but they didn’t act accordingly. As is said, even satan and the demons that were kicked out of heaven have faith; but they acted wrongly.

          • Despeville

            I told you “where I am getting all that” but you pretend I did not and keep on asking your redundant and inane questions as if no answers, no proofs and no arguments where given… You are fooling yourself only.

          • http://ashesfromburntroses.blogspot.com/ Manny

            I’ve told you a million times where I’m getting it. I’m getting it right off the pages of the bible, Matthew 25. It’s as clear as can be. I’m not twisting any logic or getting from any outside sources. You’re the one who’s coming up with pretzle loigic:

            C = A +B
            if AX and BX then: C = AX +BX
            Huh?? And you’re the one who is supposed to be sola scriptura. You don’t even apply your own beliefs.

          • Despeville

            Your “HUH?” the only real and true thing you wrote so far… You do not understand what Sola Scriptura is so don’t swing it nor do you grasp the logical implications of your Roman eisegesis of Matthew 25.

          • Christine Pasternak

            Faith by definition – is the act of believing God.
            Which is demonstrated by obedience.

            Satan and the demons have never had and never will have ‘faith’.

    • top8305

      Bill, God Bless you for pointing out this misrepresentation. Accuracy is vital and revisionism begs questions…

  • Mark D.

    Do most Catholics even know who Kenneth Copeland is or believes?

  • Percy Gryce

    “My dear Sir.” Not quite “Your Holiness,” but neither was it “Whore of Babylon.”

  • dougpruner

    Kenneth Copeland? Of the gated compound, luxury home and personal jet? Well, at least both men have something in common and are equally distant from ‘their Lord’. “And Jesus saith unto him, The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head.” Mt 8:20

  • worthywalking

    I’ll be impressed with Francis when he privately and publicly denounces Papal Succession, Papal Supremacy, Papal Infallibility, prayers for the dead, Veneration of angels and dead saints, worship of Mary, Purgatory, Holy Water, Sacraments, Indulgences, …

    • ACC soon to be

      don’t hold your breath.

    • tanyahe

      why?

  • Despeville

    We have fake Elijah aka Tony Palmer working to undermine the Gospel for the sake of his socially perceived religion while lying to his teeth about 33K denominations and telling that “presence and glory of God is all we need and not doctrines”… Yes folks kumbaya with anyone who mumbles anything about his and hers defined “presence” and “glory” and “god” and forget the biblical truth aka bad “doctrines”. Wow. This is devil-speak to be sure. Tragedy and Ichabod for many naive and ignorant and stubborn are already numb drunk on this nefarious deadly nectar of pseudo love.

  • top8305

    Fr Dwight Longenecker’s Blog on this matter (Convert from Anglican Denomination, quite the subject matter expert) lends illumination:

    Pope Francis Reaches Out to Pentecostals…
    http://www.patheos.com/blogs/standingonmyhead/2014/02/pentecostal-celtic-anglican-tradition.html

    and

    Tony Palmer – the New Face of Anglicanism
    http://www.patheos.com/blogs/standingonmyhead/2014/02/pentecostal-celtic-anglican-tradition.html

    Pax et bonum

  • D V Aguiar

    The R C church is a hierarchy. It is an institution made up of man made rules. Your salvation is never secured. The true regenerate church is made up of saints, those that have been called out by GD to be holy, righteous and sanctified. It is through fairh alone in the finished work of our savior on the cross and His resurrection and His being seated at the right hand of GD that secures our salvation. The word of GD warns us that satan comes as an angel of light. Do not be decieved, trust CHRIST for your salvation not some human institution!

  • Johann Burton

    Garbage. Just don’t ask the rcc their definition of grace.

  • Damien M

    I had been involved with Parish life for many years, including Liturgy Committee, etc, been a volunteer over the years for many major church faith events and have engaged Scripture / Catechism study well beyond the average parish attendee. I have also listened to BVOV and attended many KCM conventions over the years, including participation within KCM partnership. The Catechism itself is significantly scriptural based, and everything KC teaches is also scriptural. KC has even described the Eucharist being more significant than mere symbolic, having insight into what we participate in a natural realm is parallel with what is happening within the spirit realm. KC knows how Holy Communion elevates / facilitates faith and has insight into the Holy Presence of body, blood, soul and divinity. KC accepts scripture without compromise, hence his understanding of Eucharist, regardless of growing up with protestant background.

    The unity between Catholics and Protestants is a very positive step. I have been Catholic for nearly 5 decades and I’ve seen too many Catholics lost to atheism, cult groups, discouragement, etc. This can easily be ‘rectified’ by sound doctrine and the challenge to seek God and find covenant benefits. KC is not only accurate with respect to scripture / catechism, but well conveys God’s heart and God’s longing to intimately ‘dwell’ among His people. The resources available from KCM would greatly enhance parish liturgy and enhance the church in general.

    Also, many protestant traditions would benefit from their dialogue with us Catholics. I have met protestants who are thrilled to participate in the rites on offer, particularly the Eucharist, which for many, can struggle with, until they study copious scripture and invest significant time in prayer. Scott Hahn (well known apologist and convert) teaches very similar material to KC; so it was only a matter of time before these ‘two’ groups eventuate some form of synergy.

    We are all saved by grace, through faith, etc; but as the book of James does explain, works will arise out of grace, through faith. We can do nothing to earn salvation, and as a Catholic, I have for years found some protestants to assume Catholics aspire to self effort, which is far from the truth. All our effort is the overflow of God’s holy presence, the Word that dwells in us, the GIFT of grace – grace being the empowerment.

    Pope Francis is a man of prayer, and God has gifted him wisdom as a result of prayer. I think his initiatives is very much the will of God, as Jesus Himself conveyed. We live in dangerous times and the ‘enemy’ will do whatever he can to disrupt the church and Israel. It is up to us to participate within church unity (of faith) regardless of variation with peripheral doctrine (remember core doctrine does encompass Nicene / Apostles Creed which remains to be ‘honoured’). We can and should pray for the church and pray for Israel – what we can see is God’s will, according to Scripture.

    • Despeville

      “…The Catechism itself is significantly scriptural based, and everything KC teaches is also scriptural…”

      … Not. One example from tens:

      “The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. “The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.”

      Catechism of Roman Catholic Church point 841

      • Damien M

        The Catechism itself is significantly scriptural based, but not completely scriptural based. People with monotheistic beliefs can not be assumed to be worshiping a ‘god’ of mercy. The plan of salvation includes all people who declare and receive Jesus
        as Lord and Saviour. The only way into Heaven is by the precious blood of the Lamb. Jesus had paid for all sin, but there is one sin that will guarantee Hell, and that sin is the refusal to believe and receive the gospel of grace. Point 841 is a diplomatic statement, but the risk remains that the message of salvation may be compromised for Muslims.

        The term repentance not only implies contrition, but an alteration toward right thinking, from which right
        confession and consequent right action is implemented via a resultant spiritual transformation. Jesus is Holy God manifested to Earth (as flesh) to redeem all people, indeed He is the Messiah of Israel, but the word “Catholic” implies universal which translates to all people; the premise being that all nations are invited into covenant according to Romans 11:24-27. God’s plan of salvation is for the Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, atheists, etc; but obviously by the free-will choice to embrace the gospel. The gospel reveals the Heart of God, and that He is actually Love personified while still being Holy (fire). The ‘entity’ referred to as Allah, is not portrayed with such mercy. A parallel ‘religion’ is infinitely distant from the Truth, since Jesus alone
        is the Truth, only the covenant with Him will implement salvation.

        As far as I know, Muslims do not have any concept of grace, and that grace is the power to live as a new creation, born again via Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit Himself reveals Jesus as the redeemer, and
        consequently worshiping Jesus is very natural
        for a Christian. Not all people who ‘profess’ to
        be Catholic are born again, but for Catholics who
        are Christian, they would well appreciate that Muslims do need to hear the gospel and of course, rightly respond to the gospel. I do not understand the ‘rationale’ behind CCC Point 841, but it’s contrary to what I comprehend to be true, and I am
        sorry to know such as statement is in the Catechism. I do however, believe we should ‘delicately’ engage dialogue with Muslims, and one way or another, convey the gospel and facilitate the Holy Spirit who alone implements conversion. People like Marilyn Hickey have a very successful ministry reaching Muslims. But unfortunately, one
        thing taking place which is worse than CCC 841, is
        the current Chrislam movement which is a most dreadful (evil) heresy.

        • Despeville

          “Point 841 is a diplomatic statement, but the risk remains that the message of salvation may be compromised for Muslims.”

          You are obfuscating the issue for yourself and covering its understanding… There is no “diplomacy” with darkness in the sense of proclaiming it as truth. Look:

          Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them.

          Ephesians 5:11 ESV

          “I do not understand the ‘rationale’ behind CCC Point 841, but it’s contrary to what I comprehend to be true, and I am sorry to know such as statement is in the Catechism.”

          Catechism 841 flows from Roman Catholic constitution from Vatican II called Lumen Gentium and is not a coincidence or one time event. Rather it reflects deeply apostate nature of Romanism and its falsehood despite Christian terms and names used and many truths proclaimed as well.

          Finally, regarding common myth of men:

          “Jesus is Holy God manifested to Earth (as flesh) to redeem all people”

          Really? If so then why all people are not and will not be redeemed? You have a failing and frustrated God then. He tries. He did his best but somehow he failed to accomplish what He set out to do… NOPE, that sounds like a man and not True Triune God.

    • Christine Pasternak

      Kenneth Copeland teaches sound doctrine?

      My family flew to Dallas Texas in 2005 to hear Copeland speak in his own town and his own building. He had 4 ministers besides himself to speak during a 3 day conference, all with a similar message.. ‘Sew into my ministry and you’ll quickly receive an abundance in return’.

      Nothing was said about the husbandman having patience for a harvest, ..no word was spoken about God hating an unbalanced scale, ..nothing about taking care to not make lucre a ‘love object’ being that its adoration is the root of all evil.. nothing. Nothing about taking care of the needs of others. The sermons were a study in advancing covetousness and self serving greed.

      Each speaker went on and on about quick wealth being a result of paying into the ministry of the man speaking. And they all bragged about their own holdings. By the time KC stood up to speak in this same vein, we’d all had enough. We got up in the middle of KC’s sermon, and left the building on the 1st day of the conference and paid the extra plane fare to fly home 2 days early.

      But I can see where KC would feel at home in the wealth/gold and art crammed Vatican.

  • Guy C Stevenson

    “… As for Jews, Protestants and Catholics alike
    an alliance is necessary not to fight against an external enemy, for our
    “wrestling is not against flesh and blood; but against principalities and
    powers, against the rulers of the world of this darkness, against
    the spirits of wickedness in the high places,” (Ephesians 6:12) but rather a
    unity on the basis of men of good will, who believe in the moral law, the
    family, God and the Divinity of Christ. It is not a unity of religion we plead
    for that is impossible when purchased at the cost of the unity of truth, but a
    unity of religious peoples, wherein each marches separately according to the
    light of his conscience, but strikes together for the moral betterment of the
    world, through prayer, not hate. In a word, if anti-Christ has his
    fellow-travelers then why should not God and His Divine Son?” ~ Fulton
    Sheen, Signs of Our Times, January 26, 1947

  • mg

    Pope’s Video Fulfills Prophecy

    Everyone
    Please go this link:

    http://youtu.be/IsF2q-8ez08

    In You Tube and you will find all the answers based in the Bible that would prove
    that ken Copeland and Tony Palmer are persuading to bring all the churches in
    Unity with each other.

    Diversity is divine division is Diabolical. (not true)

    So someone stating that is not following or taking the stand for the bible. If it
    is not written in the Bible then it is false doctrine. Please copy and paste
    this link and go to YOU TUBE and watch the video as Pastor Doug Bachelor will
    reveal the real truth according to the Bible and Bible alone.

  • Dale

    Jesus warned us not to be deceived by false prophets, those who preach another
    gospel. The Pope has assumed himself as the head of the “body of
    Christ”, and “no one can come to the father” except through the
    Pope and priesthood. The Pope has replaced Jesus with himself and has the
    spirit of the anit-Christ. Tony Palmer has come in the spirit of Elijah?
    No, he came to proclaim an (or perhaps the?) anti-Christ, not Christ.
    Do you not know that in the end times many false prophets/teachers will
    be out there? Do you not know that there will be a one-world religion? DO
    NOT BE DECEIVED.

    • Dale

      Hi Dale.

      I am posting this primarily to assure readers that I am not you.
      (Look for the kitty in the cup as the symbol of quality. Accept no imitations)

      But I do have a question for you: are you one of the false prophets of the end times?

      • Dale

        Not when I last checked. I will take extra care not to become one.

  • RICHARD

    THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH KILLED 50 MILLION PEOPLE THROUGHOUT HISTORY BY THE INQUISITION…. PLEASE READ YOUR HISTORY BOOK…. IT IS JUST THE FULFILLMENT OF REVELATION 17…..

  • RICHARD

    IT IS NOT THE CHURCH FOUNDED BY CHRIST BY PETER…. IT ONLY USES FAKE DECRETALS TO PROVE THAT PETER IS THEIR FIRST POPE….

  • RICHARD

    THE JUDGEMENT OF THE WHORE WHO DRUNK THE BLOOD OF THE SAINTS WHOM SHE KILLED THROUGHOUT HISTORY…. REVELATION 17 IS GOING TO BE FULFILLED…..

  • RICHARD

    WHY DO THIS PEOPLE GET SWAYED BY THE CATHOLIC HIERARCHY? THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH HAS KILLED 50 MILLION PEOPLE THROUGHOUT HISTORY!! WHY BELIEVE THEM?

  • Charles Obryan

    no, Luther’s protest is not over, Keep in mind that their were 95 issues in Luther’s thesis. The point is that the Catholic Church is a mixing bowl of paganism and Christianity. while coming together in the name of love sounds nice, it doesn’t fix the problem. The Catholic Church needs to conform to the Bible with things such as idol worship, which is forbidden by God. This is just one thing but it’s also far fetched. The Catholic Church would never reform to Gods will. That is why it is described in prophecy as the first beast in the bible (Revelations). No sir Mr. Palmer, the protest will continue. and another thing, it was more than just a protest, the Catholic Church made Hitler look like a lil girl scout when it came to murder. They murdered millions of people because they had a copy of the Bible or had read one. Lets be honest Mr Palmer, The church was given to the Jews and the Romans stole that from them, after they killed Christ of course.

  • http://www.isthereglobalcooling.com gpp111

    This pope doing exactly what the bible says the flase prophet will do in the last days! Catholics and Pretestants alike need to wake up to the reality of who he is! This man and the things he teaches are an abomination to God and he will lead many to destruction if you are willing to believe his lies! Repent the kingdom of God is hand!

    • kathyschiffer

      Dear GPP: Sometimes I don’t understand the things Pope Francis says–and yet, he is the Pope. He was elected by the College of Cardinals as the successor of Peter. Jesus promised that He would send us a Paraclete, and that he would be with us until the end of time. He promised that whatever Peter (or his successor) bound on earth would be bound in heaven/loosed, loosed in heaven. What you or I think is of no consequence.

  • Eddy

    I want to say , that Ken Copeland is reaching his hand to the antichrist . It is the beginning of the end . Gods Blessing from Belguim.

  • Lizop

    http://standupforthetruth.com/2013/05/pope-francis-all-go-to-heaven-even-atheists/ he’s off and our statement does not align at all. We ARE still Protestants.


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