WEIRD: Her Abortion Is a “Special Memory”; In a Fire, She’d Grab Her Sonogram First

Emily Letts is a patient advocate (or more accurately, an abortion counselor).  The 25-year-old works at Cherry Hill Women’s Centre in New Jersey, where she counsels women who are about to end the life of their children.

When Emily got pregnant, she made the same decision that she encourages other women to make:   to cut short her baby’s life because she “wasn’t ready to be a mother.”

I’ve got news for you, Emily:  You ARE a mother.  You’re the mother of a dead baby.

*     *     *     *     *

Letts made headlines this week in social media, in The Blaze, in the Huffington Post, by releasing a YouTube video of her own abortion, which she calls a “special memory.”

Letts’ film is a happy-clappy, nonjudgmental, non-reflective and unrepentant reinterpretation of what really happens during an abortion.  She says she “wanted women to see what abortion was like”–but the film, first place winner in the Abortion Care Network’s macabre “Stigma Busting Video Competition”, focuses exclusively on her.

We never see the doctor, never see the “uterine contents” carried off in a bucket, arms and legs jutting out, disposed of as medical waste.

The Huffington Post quotes the last lines of Letts’ video:

“I don’t feel like a bad person. I don’t feel sad. I feel in awe of the fact that I can make a baby.

“I can make a life. I knew what I was going to do was right because it was right for me and no one else. I just wanna share my story.”

Letts sputters all the usual pro-abort accusations:  People try to make you feel guilty.  Society breeds this guilt.  We inhale it from all directions….

But this statement stood out for me as the most blatant display of cognitive dissonance I’ve heard in a long time.  Letts said,

“I know that sounds weird, but to me, this was as birth-like as it could be. It will always be a special memory for me. I still have my sonogram, and if my apartment were to catch fire, it would be the first thing I’d grab.”

Here’s the video.  Watch it at your own risk.

 

 

  • expect_resistance

    That doesn’t sounds very Christian of you to call someone an “insulting bitch.”

  • expect_resistance

    You said, “Sin and scandal have ever been part of the Church’s human condition.” I would say priests sexually abusing children would be an accurate description of what you said.

  • lady_black

    There is nothing wrong with my understanding of the Catholic faith. I was baptized and confirmed as a Catholic. And you yourself provide such a sterling example of what it means with your criticism of my family of three children being too small. I didn’t have enough people to “lavish my love and affection on” as though that was my absolute reason for being. As a person, I don’t matter much beyond what I can provide in the form of slavery to men and the church. Go away, little man. You’re such a joke, such a caricature that you yourself cannot see how utterly ridiculous you really are.

    • John Flaherty

      Sadly, your comments reflect a very typical, very shallow understanding of the faith. You’ve learned what you think you need to learn and lived what you felt you were required. You didn’t follow the Church’s teachings any further than you felt absolutely needed.
      Then too, you seem to consider any suggestion of the value of motherhood to be a violent demotion from having value as a human being yourself. Few things could be further from the Truth.

      • lady_black

        I might remind you that I never devalued motherhood. Why would I? That would be devaluing one of the important parts of my life. Neither would I assign motherhood as the ONLY value for women. Here we have this wonderful gift of life, and you want women to limit their sphere to the birthing and nurturing of children. Will you be limiting yours? Let me tell you something about children. They grow up and have lives of their own. They don’t need eternal mothering. That’s not something to regret. That’s a cause for great celebration. That means you done good! I was given more than one gift and they ALL deserve to be fulfilled, not just the one that suits you. I was also blessed with the ability to use my hands to heal. To give comfort to those who don’t have any other hands to comfort them. If I did believe in gods, I’d have to believe that gift was to be used for a purpose, and I was not to waste it. Women are every bit as capable of being more than just “one thing” as men are. Hopefully as you grow up, you’ll begin to realize that fact. I’m a mother. I’m also a wife, a friend, a sister, a daughter, a lover, a professional, a worker, a healer, a teacher, a friend to animals… and I’m still not finished yet.

        • John Flaherty

          Now you’re simply using various excuses for why you think you’ve done enough. If you’ve been contracepting most of your life and have been enjoying non-procreative sex for much of that, you have, indeed, devalued motherhood.

          I’m afraid I can’t continue this discussion, I need to get to work.

          • lady_black

            I don’t need any excuses. I have done enough. And by limiting motherhood to the number of children I could properly care for, I have raised the value of motherhood far above the biological animal level you are assigning to it.

          • John Flaherty

            In spite of your having raised 3 kids, I think you’ve badly sullied the idea of motherhood. You have, yourself, limited motherhood to the utilitarian level that you accuse me of proffering.
            I can’t tell precisely how old you are, but I notice that you must be within 15 years of my age. I’ll turn 40 before long and have long since grown disgusted by attitudes such as yours. You truly do cause the Church to suffer very greatly.

            In part because of your intransigent point of view, I’m realizing there’s no point in using reason or other means to speak to you. Beings I do have other things I need to accomplish, I’ll not be able to respond to further comments.

            I do wish you all of God’s grace.
            John

          • Arekushieru

            It is precisely because of, in part, people like you that I have no desire to become a mother. You claim that being forced to give birth multiple times is not utilitarian yet accomplishing things other than what your biology is capable of somehow is for women? Methinks someone needs to look up the definition of utilitarian. Of course, I then have to ask why it is utilitarian to force a man to give up as much of his sperm as possible for procreative purposes but not utilitarian for him to pursue his educational goals? That’s a double standard and the reason for that is very obvious, no? Because you, yourself, are male. That’s misogyny.

            And, since God is not a misogynist, you do not have any of God’s grace to wish on others. So sorry.

          • John Flaherty

            I will answer this for a moment because I think your comment posits an assumption that needs to be corrected.

            You claim I’m mysoginistic and pushing a double standard, apparently because I’d insist that you give birth multiple times and not do anything else; I see an implication that I must somehow see women in general as some form of sex slave. Yet I haven’t said or even hinted at anything that would seem to me to lead in that direction.
            For a woman to give birth multiple times, she must be sexually willing with a man on multiple occasions, sometimes promiscuously with several different partners.
            Yet there has never been any rule, law, statute, or other forcible mandate that has ever required any girl or woman to be sexually active at all.

            I find this very strange: Women will insist on “controlling” their lives so much as to allow someone into their body, seeking pleasure, but then will resort to surgically excising another if their body does something as “ghastly” as conceiving a child. Even ignoring the problem that the child is also a life, women seem to treat this much like removing a diseased limb, It seems to me about as intelligent as a men who’d jab his finger into a light socket in a fit of rage, then cut off the finger when it begins to hurt from being shocked in the light socket.

            I don’t think it’d make sense for me to offer any of God’s grace to you. I think you’ve pretty well rejected most of HIs offers.
            I do think this a truly tragic state of being.

      • Suba gunawardana

        So called “Value of motherhood” cannot be taught, unless it comes from within. No one should be forced to breed unless they want to, and are able, willing and eager to care for a child.

  • lady_black

    Yeah? Well stay in school, child. You have a lot of work to do. My mother was hemorrhaging and the fetus was dead. BEEN dead. Yes she absolutely DID need an abortion. You are not a doctor. You’re barely a human being. And my husband doesn’t respect me “for my lust.” We’ve been married for longer than you’ve been alive. Please, whatever you do, please make sure you accomplish what you wish while you still know everything. Because a few years down the road, or ten years down the road, you’re going to look back and realize how little you really did know. I’ve been your age. You have never been my age. Common sense ought to tell you that gives me a natural advantage over you. You don’t pack the gear to take me on.

    • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

      Age and experience will always defeat youth and skill.

      • expect_resistance

        I’ll drink to that! :)

  • lady_black

    That doesn’t look like a baby to me.

  • Victor

    (((Victor, I’ve learned that to argue with morons is just not worth one’s time. Especially when they are a bunch of insulting bitches.)))
    Whow Manny! For a split second there, I thought that you were sinner vic, YA know that skitso who thinks he owns about 95% of my DNA cells but “Truth” be known, my “Five per sent age ‘Jesus’ Godly cells” could teach his angel friends of Lucy Fire and Satan a few tricks.
    I hear YA! But they would need to go through “Super Man” and “The Avengers” First! Right Victor? :)
    You’re funny Manny! LOL
    God Bless Peace

    • Jennifer Starr

      I’m sure there is some universe where the words you put together actually form a coherent statment. Though I’m afraid that I don’t know what universe that might be.

    • http://ashesfromburntroses.blogspot.com/ Manny

      Oh I’m a sinner too. Hey my language gets saltier than that! I grew up in Brooklyn, NY, and half the clowns were future mobsters…lol.

  • Victor

    Ruby Sara! Truth be known, I just looked at the link that you provided and any one who watches your supplied picture will agree that this is not a baby as we know it and no where in the article does it claim to be a normal baby.
    Longer story short! There’s so much more that I want to say but my wife is calling me and life does continue in reality and it is not easy all the time but I know that having un-necessary abortions and especially while bragging about it then claiming that we’re doing it because we’re protecting a woman’s right to chose is wrong, so wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?????
    Call me crazy if YA like but t I’m getting a little UP SET with GOD LEFT, “I” mean RIGHT NOW! LOL :)
    Got to go………………………..
    SORRY!

  • lady_black

    It’s medical waste. Just like amputated limbs, removed organs, etc. and is disposed of like all other medical waste in a lawful manner. It’s probably been incinerated. I don’t waste much time worrying about the body parts I’ve had removed and what became of them. Seems kind of nutty to me.

  • expect_resistance

    There is a war on women that includes lobbying efforts by ALEC and the Koch brothers. Both are well-funded organizations that have made war on women by chipping away at access to abortion.

    http://m.rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-stealth-war-on-abortion-20140115
    “The Stealth War on Abortion” quote –

    “We don’t make frontal attacks,” AUL president and CEO Charmaine Yoest told the National Catholic Register in 2011. “Never attack where the enemy is strongest.” Some abortion-rights advocates have compared AUL to the American Legislative Exchange Council, the secretive corporate-funded organization responsible for many of the country’s voter-suppression and “Stand Your Ground” laws. Each year, AUL sends state and federal lawmakers across the country a 700-page-plus “pro-life playbook,” Defending Life, which it describes as “the definitive plan for countering a profit-centered and aggressive abortion industry, while laying the groundwork for the ultimate reversal of Roe.” Among its annual features is a 50-state “report card” on the state of anti-abortion legislation, as well as a step-by-step guide, Yoest says, to help lawmakers “understand that Roe v. Wade doesn’t preclude them from passing common-sense legislation.”

    Koch Brothers Funding of Anti-Choice Groups, by Organization

    Freedom Partners
    Since it was founded in late 2011, Freedom Partners, which Politico has called “the Koch brothers’ secret bank,” has given millions to anti-choice organizations:
    • more than $8 million to Concerned Women for America Legislative Action Committee
    • $32 million to Americans for Prosperity
    • $15.7 million to 60 Plus

    Freedom Partners via CPPR
    Since November 2011, the Center to Protect Patient Rights (CPPR) has recieved about $115 million from Freedom Partners. CPPR also took in some $11 million from Americans for Job Security, another pass-through group with connections to prominent businessmen Bob Fisher (director of The Gap, Inc.), Charles Schwab (founder and chairman of Charles Schwab Corporation), and Eli Broad (founder, KB Home and Sun America).

    CPPR, in turn, has long had deep funding ties to anti-choice organizations. Here is a list of CPPR disbursements to anti-choice organizations by year.

    CPPR 2009
    • $2.6 million to 60 Plus
    • $2.25 million to Americans for Prosperity
    • $250,000 to Independent Women’s Voice
    • $25,000 to Nebraska Right to Life

    CPPR 2010
    • $9 million to 60 Plus
    • $1.9 million to Americans for Prosperity
    • $1 million to the Susan B. Anthony List
    • $559,000 to Americans United for Life Action
    • $45,000 to Americans United for Life

    CPPR 2011
    • $2.4 million to 60 Plus
    • $1.5 million to Concerned Women for America Legislative Action Committee

    • John Flaherty

      There is a war on women only from the point of view of one who advocates a rabidly feminist viewpoint. I’m saddened to see you take this stand.

      • lady_black

        No, this negatively affects all women, not just rabid feminists. If you think Catholic women are immune to being harmed, think again.

        • John Flaherty

          I commented early this morning that I cannot continue this discussion, lady black. I find your attitudes despicable, but common, and can no longer consume time on your views. I do wish you all the best of God’s grace.

        • expect_resistance

          It’s been a long time since I’ve been called rabid feminist.

      • expect_resistance

        Am I supposed to care that you’re saddened? No. That’s your problem. Can’t help you with narrow minded thinking.

      • dudebro

        rabidly feminist = not being a religous fucktoy /baby factory

      • Rainbow Walker

        Not a surprising response from a religious nut. You probably like child brides too.

  • Rob B.

    Then maybe they ought to show some self-control and not have sex until they are “ready and able” to have children.

    Oh, I’m sorry. I keep forgetting that self-control is so passe. Far better to simply rut like animals and dispose of the consequences.

    • lady_black

      Rob, I hear you. But I think it’s unrealistic to expect that married couples will abstain from sex, and I believe it to be unhealthy. Every married couple is not eager to be a parent at every available opportunity. It’s just that simple. We no longer live in a goat-herding, agrarian society where many children never survive their first year, and many hands are needed to do the work needed for survival. I get that you’re Catholic and believe that Mary remained a virgin perpetually. The Bible itself doesn’t agree with that particular viewpoint. It specifically speaks of brothers and sisters of Jesus. Now how did he get brothers and sister? How do you suppose that happened. This is why I cannot go home to the Catholic church, and why it brings great discomfort. The magisterium expect everyone to live as though it were 2000 years ago. That is, everyone but themselves. And the cloaking of the rape of countless little boys. The hypocrisy. This is why the church is being ignored and/or diminished. The butts in the pews do not agree with you. They may keep coming to church, but they probably shouldn’t because they ignore it’s teachings. The Catholic laity has to live in reality. The magisterium not so much.

      • Rob B.

        It is painfully obvious from your ranting, ladyblack, that you have not “heard me.”. Indeed, the only thing you seem to hear is the echo chamber that you and much of the rest of the world have placed yourself in, a place where sin isn’t just ignored, it’s redefined as virtue.

        And when Truth does try to make itself heard, you shove your fingers in your ears and yell, “Blah, blah blah! The Church needs to do what I want! Blah, blah, blah! Pedophile priests!”. It’s a common problem; I’m guilty of it myself sometimes. But then I grow up and I recognize that it’s not all about what I want, but what God wants. I hope you get there too, someday.

        • lady_black

          What does “god” want?

        • lady_black

          Did it ever occur to you that the magisterium is simply wrong? This stuff isn’t anywhere in the Bible. You have to really cherry-pick for some of it (and by “cherry pick” I mean take things way out of context.) And the idea that Mary was perpetually a virgin, well that’s just invented out of whole cloth. She wasn’t. And there is no reason for lying about it, because she was to remain untouched only until the birth of Jesus. Nothing said about the rest of her life.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Like my Uncle Marco always said “They no play the game, they no make the rules.”

          • expect_resistance

            It would blow their minds if they knew she had sex.

        • expect_resistance

          How was that a rant? It was an articulate post.

        • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

          “Over the pope as the expression of the binding claim of ecclesiastical authority there still stands one’s own conscience, which must be obeyed before all else, if necessary even against the requirement of ecclesiastical authority. Conscience confronts [the individual] with a supreme and ultimate tribunal, and one which in the last resort is beyond the claim of external social groups, even of the official church.”
          (Pope Benedict XVI [then Archbishop Joseph Ratzinger], “Commentary on the Documents of Vatican II”, ed. Vorgrimler, 1968, on Gaudium et spes, part 1, chapter 1.)

    • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

      No thank you. Love sex and will have it. If I get pregnant, I will gestate or abort as I see fit. Not as you see fit.

    • expect_resistance

      You do realize that married women have abortions too. Women who are in monogamous relationships also have abortions. So you slut-shamming argument doesn’t work.

    • dudebro

      So you want to police female sexuality.

    • wahwahwah

      My wife of 27 years and I were never ‘ready and able’ to have children. That’s what tubal ligations and vasectomies are for. No ‘disposal of consequences (there’s that word again, referring to children, thought they were blessings) necessary.

  • Rob B.

    No, pregnancy is a natural consequence of sex. Indeed, the telos (it’s Greek, look it up) of sex is reproduction; physical pleasure and intimacy are by-products of the act. Of course, our society has divorced the two and succeeded in breeding a generation of self-absorbed permanent children who want the pleasure, but not the responsibility or sexuality.

    • lady_black

      One can have the pleasure and intimacy of sexual congress without intending to reproduce. It doesn’t make someone a “self-absorbed child” to have plans and dreams beyond being a brood mare. You cheapen motherhood by relegating women to that role, and only that role.

    • expect_resistance

      For as long as people have been having sex women have used birth control and had abortions. This is not a new thing. Abortion is not a recent discovery. The ancient Greeks practiced birth control and abortion too.

  • Rob B.

    Hey, maybe the video will inspire even more desperate young women to murder their unborn children! Wouldn’t that be wonderful!

    :(

    • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

      Children are born. Stuff a child in a uterus and it dies. You are stupid. And you want me to join you in your stupidity. When sexpigs like you fly.

      • Dennis

        “Stuff a child in a uterus and it dies.”

        Only if you have an improper definition of “child”. Every definition of child I looked up (over 10 different sources) either did not mention being born a necessary quality or had an unborn person as one of the definitions.

        If you want to throw out an insult just so you can feel better about yourself, go for it. But since you have not provided any reason that I should expect a response more mature than that of a 2nd grade bully, I won’t be checking to see if you responded.

        • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

          There is a fetus in the womb. I have made three children, so I know what is in there. Like I said, you are stupid and you want me to join you in your stupidity. When sexpigs like you fly.

        • Arekushieru

          Nope, please use legal/medical/non-archaic terms when discussing a contemporary legal/medical issue, next time. Kthxbainow!

    • Arekushieru

      Yeah, seeing desperate young women die as a result of an illegal abortion or pregnancy, itself, would just be so wonderful, wouldn’t it? You people are sick. Abortion isn’t murder.

  • lady_black

    Yep. Catholics too.

  • Robert What?

    Keepsake sonogram photos? “Feels like the closest thing to giving birth”? Seemed celebratory to me.

    • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

      Only if you think pregnancy is a party. Life is so easy for fetus freak men.

      • Robert What?

        Your reply made no sense so I assume it was an attempt at deflection. She wasn’t celebrating a birth, she was celebrating a death.
        I don’t think it should be outlawed, but I never see abortion as a good thing. Just something that sometimes has to be dealt with as well as possible.
        “Life is easy for men”? What universe are you living in?

        • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

          Life is so simple and easy for fetus freak men. It is more than a little disgusting. You equate your puny two minute spasms to pregnancy and childbirth and multiple orgasms. And you think we must need and want your advice and hectoring.
          You really are a putrid rotting little brussels sprout. Close your mouth; you are stinking up the room.

          • Robert What?

            OK well thanks for clarifying that with your lucid, well thought out position. Let me guess – you’re single?

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            So lame.

          • Robert What?

            Yes you are – and I congradulate you for admitting it. I try to discuss – you fling invective and spittle. I truly hope you are single because I pity the man who would have to live with you. I’d probably chew my own arm off.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            I am not at all interested in you. You skeeve me. Ho hum.

          • Robert What?

            Oh and I was so wanting you to like me. Have a nice life and enjoy your cats. Bye.

          • expect_resistance

            What do you have against cats?

          • Alex Sawyer

            I doubt that much of anyone is interested in you, honey.

          • expect_resistance

            Speak for yourself.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Do you think Alex is Robert’s sockpuppet or his boo?

          • expect_resistance

            It’s hard to say.

          • Rainbow Walker

            I vote boo.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Maybe. That would make Robert a homosexual and not part of the reproduction game necessarily. So why the attitude? I think it is his boo as well.

          • expect_resistance

            That’s quite dramatic. What do you really mean ?

          • lady_black

            I agree with her. And I’m not single either. You have to realize we aren’t your mother, and we don’t think it’s cute when you drool.

  • expect_resistance

    Maybe “spiritual snakes” means penises? Very strange.

  • myintx

    She killed for 15 minutes of fame. Proves that abortion isn’t used as a last resort. She makes Pro-aborts look even worse than they are.

    • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

      Jehovah is a proabort. Hosea 13:16.

      • myintx

        Doesn’t take religion to know that killing an unborn child is wrong.

        • expect_resistance

          No it just takes an uninformed person to think a fertilized egg is a person.

          • myintx

            It’s a human being. If it’s killed as a fertilized egg or at 38 weeks gestation or at birth that human being is denied a chance at a full and productive lifetime. If you support killing it in the womb you might as well support killing it at 38 weeks too.

          • lady_black

            Oh well.

          • expect_resistance

            I’ve already answered this at Mother Jones. Stalker!

          • Victor

            ((( I’ve already answered this at Mother Jones. Stalker! )))

            Gee! No kidding why must YA be so private and so vocal in your approach to US (usual sinners)?

            We’re YA sent by GOD?

            Sorry Manny!

            sinner vic had to come for a visit and I hope that his skitso friends don’t turn into spiritual Dr Jekylls and Hydes cause then I might be in need of Father Damien of Molokai to ask his friend Mr. Robert Louis Stevenson to see if he’s interested in helping the unborn child who don’t know that they are living in death chambers disguised as “Mother’s Womb”. I’m sure that he knows that Father Damien would give his life to defend these poor souls.

            Forgive me FATHER for involving YOU but “I” know not what “I” do.

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9U1BQP_X1k#t=90
            God Bless The Unborn.

          • dudebro

            Your post doesn’t make any sense.

          • Victor

            ((( Your post doesn’t make any sense.)))

            Gee! What can “I” say, another man and/or woman who want to help little old me and for some reasons, I just won’t co-operate.

            Anyway on this Sunday I want to wish all mothers that you might know a happy mothers day.
            I hear YA! Victor you’re your own worst enemy.
            Go Figure brothers and sister in Christ

            http://www.patheos.com/blogs/slacktivist/2014/05/11/sunday-favorites-142/
            Pax

          • myintx

            You’re the one replying to my posts on here…

          • expect_resistance

            You’re just mad because you got busted lying. You’re a liar and a stalker. Get a life.

          • myintx

            Emily L is the one that proves pro-aborts are liars… Abortion isn’t a decision of last resort. It’s a decision of selfishness.

          • expect_resistance

            You got caught lying red-handed and blame it on someone else. How interesting that you can’t accept responsibility for your own action. That’s really sad.

          • myintx

            Lying about what? I’ve had people post after me that I’ve seen on other forums.. doesn’t make them stalkers….

          • expect_resistance

            Read up thread you said you posted here first!!!!!!

          • myintx

            You have no problem dismembering and killing unborn children but you’re worried about an alleged stalker on a comment board? Yep.. typical pro-abort, only worried about themselves and no one else.

          • expect_resistance

            Have you read Victor’s comments? He makes more sense than you do.

          • Victor

            (((Have you read Victor’s comments? He makes more sense than you do.)))

            Please don’t use me as an example expect_resistance cause everyone of human animals alien godly parasites cells living with US (usual sinners) would sooner side with myintx . Long story short, they need to protect the unborn simply because they’ve been doing this for billions of years now and will continue to do so until they can convince humanity that they don’t need
            GOD and then “IT” is Armageddon where parasites will be home free if YA get my drift? :)

            I hear YA! You’re really crazy Victor?

            Go Figure! LOL :)

            Pax

          • myintx

            I haven’t lied about anything.

      • expect_resistance

        Oh look who followed us here.

        • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

          Stalker pervert all the way. And its lonesome.

          • myintx

            Looks like you were the one who followed me. I posted first. STALKER.

          • Jennifer Starr

            Seeing that your profile is private while Plum’s isn’t, I find that hard to believe. I think you were the stalker.

          • myintx

            I was the one who posted first… then she posted after me…

          • expect_resistance

            No, I posted here three days ago and you first posted here two days ago. I know reality escapes you but get a grip.

          • myintx

            So that makes me a stalker? No.. it makes me a person reading articles and posting comments on them. Get a grip.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            You are a stalker and a pervert. But then, I have told you that before.

          • myintx

            Nope. And, I don’t support the slaughtering of unborn children either.

          • expect_resistance

            It followed us here from MJ. *sigh*

          • expect_resistance

            You followed us here from the link I posted at Mother Jones. Duh. You’re the stalker.

          • myintx

            Oh, so we’re on the same forum together and you think I’m a stalker? lol…

          • expect_resistance

            You know we were on the same forum because you followed me here from Mother Jones. Stalker! And I’ve already told you I’m sick of talking to you. I’m only responding because you are telling lies about me. What exactly is your problem? On second thought don’t answer I don’t care,

          • myintx

            I have commented on other Patheos articles before. This isn’t my first time on Patheos… If you’re sick of talking to me then go away.

          • expect_resistance

            I am moving on to a thread at RH Reality Check. If you say you’re not a stalker I know you will not follow me there. Ta ta.

          • myintx

            You won’t get any resistance over there… you’re wasting your time on that forum, no one to try to convince that you think that slaughtering unborn children is OK.. but, knock yourself out.

    • dudebro

      She is a hero.

      • myintx

        She’s a killer

        • dudebro

          Would you like to see her get life in jail or the death penalty?

        • expect_resistance

          No she’s not.

          • myintx

            If she did have an abortion she killed her unborn child.

          • expect_resistance

            Just what you need, a company that provides personhood funeral services at http://www.personhoodfunerals.com

            From the website, “We, as Christians, know that life begins at conception. For a married Christian woman who is trying to conceive, the chances are high that many times when the menstrual cycle arrives it is actually a miscarriage of a very, very young child. If your period is late, even by a few days, it is likely that you have just lost your child. Your precious baby, just a few weeks old, and still microscopic, is dead. This is a time for you to mourn. It is also a time to prepare your child to enter Heaven. Personhood Funeral Services, LLC provides funeral planning, memorial service planning and caters to the needs of grieving Christian families.”

            A photo from the cite of a tampon coffin.

          • myintx

            You’re sick…

          • expect_resistance

            How am I sick when you’re the one arguing fertilized eggs are persons, as you say “unborn babies.” I kindly provide you with a useful link and then you call me sick. Who’s selfish now?

          • myintx

            Women who intentionally kill their unborn children for senseless reasons, like Emily Letts, are selfish.

          • expect_resistance

            Do you believe fertilized eggs are persons?

          • kathyschiffer

            Hello, Expect– Let me pop in here. Fertilized eggs have 26 pairs of chromosomes, and are unique and non-repeatable. They are not simply parts of the mother, the way menstrual blood or fingernails are. They fit the scientific definition of “person” well; just not the pro-abort political position. But it is you, not myintx, whose viewpoint is supported only by faith. The pro-lifer knows that fertilized eggs have all the genes that he or she will carry into adulthood, and we have science to back up that view.

          • conversate

            Zygotes have none of the objective traits associated with personhood. They are mindless genetic blueprints. Blueprints are not people.

          • kathyschiffer

            Are newborns “people”, then? And I take your insult toward unborn children personally. See, I was born prematurely. By the standard of a pro-abort, I was not a person. Had I stayed inside my mother’s womb instead of coming out early, you could gladly have had my arms and legs hacked off and my brains sucked out. Nice guy you are!

          • Suba gunawardana

            No, only your mother could have done that, if she chose to. (And if she chose to, you would never have known, or got a chance to feel bad about it).

            That’s the whole point. The woman carrying the fetus should have the right to keep it or expel it as she wishes. It’s not anyone else’s business.

          • conversate

            Get over yourself. None of us were persons when we were zef’s.

          • expect_resistance

            Science has not defined when personhood starts and neither have you. Science doesn’t back up your statement.

          • Guest

            Oh, so “Chris” DOES know how to spell her name correctly after all!

          • myintx

            You’re sick because you support the slaughtering of millions of unborn children and then joke about miscarriages.

          • Jennifer Starr

            That’s not a miscarriage.

          • expect_resistance

            If a fertilized egg fails to implant there is no pregnacy, thus no miscarriage.

          • Guest

            Aww, “Chris,” that’s a rilly, rilly sad story. Here, have a tissue.

  • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

    I am going to end up as fertilizer for my fig trees.

  • dudebro

    citation needed

  • dudebro

    it looks like any other viviparous vertebrate embryo

  • dudebro

    yeah, they are morons because they aren’t talking about spiritual snakes and reality sperm

    *clearly*

  • dudebro

    so should the bitch get the gallows like the Nazis did?

  • dudebro

    Regardless of what your body may do naturally, regardless of what a man would teach about what you can be as a a woman

    Oh, so you’re one of those ‘patriarchal’ women are the property of men types?

  • dudebro

    I think he rather respects you for your lust. I’ve met many people like that.

    It’s you patriarchal types who are obsessed with female purity and often rape their own daughters because they are mad with power

  • dudebro

    they aren’t sentient, and only people are sentient

  • dudebro

    Dr. Tiller’s practise revolved around aborting fetuses with fatal deformities. Missing brains, lungs, kidneys, spinal columns etc.

  • dudebro

    Because, Tiller saved them pain, from deformed fetuses that would die within hours once born.

  • dudebro

    Then you should support MANDATORY organ donation, especially for kids, because kids = weakest members

  • Suba gunawardana

    What’s the big fuss about? This abortion is just like any other abortion, except for being out in public & showing that there’s no gory scary “dismembering” crime scene constantly touted by the anti-abortion movement.

    Not that there’s anything wrong with dismembering (when it concerns non-sentient beings)…

  • Rainbow Walker

    Yes it’s sad when people fabricate to elicit emotion.

    • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

      It is more than sad. It is evil.

  • Suba gunawardana

    What’s wrong with being happy with your decision? If you are upset about it, that means you didn’t make the right decision.

  • wahwahwah

    I respect my wife’s independence. Actually, I respect everything about her because she’s . . . her. Neither you nor I can accurately or knowledgeably quantify what other men respect in a woman, although you’re certainly entitled to value whatever you wish about the women in your life.
    Twenty-seven years of a great marriage speaks for itself, I think.

    I’m curious – are you married?

  • Suba gunawardana

    Consent to sex is not consent to pregnancy, just like leaving your door unlocked is not an open invitation to burglars or squatters.

  • Suba gunawardana

    Pregnancy is a gift ONLY if you want a child, and are able to provide a good life for that child.

    If either factor is missing, it becomes a burden/curse to both mother and child.

    BTW what’s wrong with seeking pleasure?

  • Suba gunawardana

    Care to explain this phrase? “what a man would teach about what you can be as a a woman”

    • wahwahwah

      I wonder if he’s referring not to ‘what you can be as a woman’ but to who she can be as a **mother**.
      Woman =/= mother, though, so I’m not sure.

      • Suba gunawardana

        As evident from his response below, he can value women only one of two ways, as incubators or as whores. i.e. only for their physical functions.

  • Suba gunawardana

    Looks like you are unable to grasp the concept of respecting someone as a person (instead of valuing them only for their bodily functions)

  • Rainbow Walker

    Giving fetuses juridical status is impossible and poses a plethora of legal quagmires. First of all one must deny
    the rights of the women [who IS a juridical person]. The court has granted as to privacy, but there are other issues as well: the right to be secure in one’s person and slavery. Forcing a woman to have [or terminate] a fetus is
    equivalent to slavery.

    Then if we give a lump of cells right where will it end? As my law professor said “then a Jain can claim a virus or bacteria is alive and should have juridical standing. And therefore we cannot use medicine because it violates their rights.”

    That’s why the recognized and perceived individual as a juridical person under constitutional law is very narrow.

  • Rainbow Walker

    You are more concerned with remains then living children. Perhaps if you were more concerned with living children
    instead of fixating on remains and zygotes there wouldn’t be 400 million unwanted children in the world. Most of whom are trafficked, abused and exploited.

  • Suba gunawardana

    If god cares about the unborn, why doesn’t he step up to protect them now?

  • Suba gunawardana

    Why are lifeless remains more important than living breathing sentient children being abused/neglected & suffering RIGHT NOW? children who were forced into substandard lives with no thought for their well-being, to assuage some religious nut ideology? What are they, chopped liver?

  • Rainbow Walker

    CPR is no longer necessary if they are brain dead. Fetuses are not cognizant nor “alive”. Brain activity doesn’t occur
    until right before birth.

    You have difficulty discerning the real from the fictitious.

  • Rainbow Walker

    Spoken like one with no vagina.

    Research shows most often pregnancy is not welcome and is very traumatic for women. And more often they don’t want to be pregnant and more often die in pregnancy or suffer other psychological or physiological trauma.

    Some gift. How about a “gift” of a prostate infection?

  • Rainbow Walker

    You know how many wife beaters talk like you? Many of my patients [children] say their dads use almost the exact words, before they opened their mothers face with a baseball bat.

    • Jose Chung

      I saw, and heard, this sort of thing far too many times during my career. There’s a reason why cops hate domestic violence calls almost more than any other. The other, of course, is child abuse.

  • Rainbow Walker

    Brain activity doesn’t “aid” in determining life, it is life.

  • Arekushieru

    That has quite often been proven to be the case. Especially when the nine-year old Brazilian girl who was raped by her stepfather was excommunicated for having an abortion, yet her stepfather was not similarly forcibly removed for raping her. Tell me, isn’t that the same thing as refusing to excommunicate pedophile priests?

  • Arekushieru

    If any parent tries to take their children, which naturally means they are already BORN, out that is murder. Just like defending yourself from and killing a rapist is not murder, neither is abortion. Oops.

  • Arekushieru

    As Plum said, a fetus is neither a person nor capable of being either innocent or guilty. The right to choose how your body is used and when and how it is used via ongoing, informed and explicit consent gives a person the right to CHOOSE between abortion and gestation. It’s funny but sad that antis can’t seem to grasp this simple concept.

  • Arekushieru

    To HER it was a life and a baby. But that doesn’t automatically make one a life or a baby. If I call an adult dog a baby does that mean it’s a baby, now? Didn’t think so.

    Also, whether it’s a life or baby is irrelevant when it comes to abortion.

  • Arekushieru

    Sadly enough, everything is about YOU and how you can impose your morals on others. That’s the definition of greed, which is a sin, btw. And doesn’t God require sinners to repent?

    Not just imposing morals, but imposing morals that you, YOURSELF, know can never be required of you. Another thing that proves you to be the misogynist you are.

    Our widdle lady bwainz just shouldn’t comprehend how birthing and raising children can be anything other than the glorious, satisfying fulfillment to our existence, eh? If we were men, however, pursuing our educational and employment goals would be just as equally valid an option as having children. And because women are the ones to face the risks of pregnancy, childbirth and delivery (otherwise known as the third leading causes of death worldwide for women) and are usually left with the bulk of household chores and child rearing, it would certainly behoove you to RESPECT women with opinions to the contrary of your own, rather than expect them to put a happy face on it, all the while telling them they’re failures as women if they don’t love every moment of having and raising children. After all, do you think only men abuse children? People like you make the likelihood that the circumstances under which postpartum depression frequently flourishes will increase. Andrea Yates, anyone? Oops. Just more proof of your misogyny, I guess….

    And, if you object to paying for other’s bills even though you’re the one that would love to increase the expenses for raising, not ONLY are you a misogynist you are a hypocrite. Aw… why am I NOT surprised?

    • John Flaherty

      In this posting, I see exceedingly little that would cause me to respect anyone, man or woman. I see contempt for the idea of dealing with life’s daily struggles.
      I remember hearing horror stories back in the 80′s about workaholic and inattentive men, men who needed to spend less time at the office and actually worry about raising their families.
      Now, all I typically see is the constant yammering about how great women have become at being “successful” in business, I see women proclaiming how great others are because the others have “opened doors”. We’re told how far we’ve come because women can pursue anything they want now. … And of course, IF they decide to have families, they can send them to a daycare center, then preschool, then onward.

      THIS is the great stride forward that we should thrilled about? How women can be as prone to being workaholics as men and can mostly ignore their families in pursuit of “success”? REALLY???

      In all of the grandstanding about how well women have done, have you paid any heed to the idea that these “great strides” will only last if the society that tolerates this continues to exist? Have you had the nerve to notice that this country is dying?

      If you think I’m a mysogynist because I dare to remind you that pregnancy typically comes from sex, how do you intend to react when someone else doesn’t waste time trying to reason with you?
      For all that Pro-Choice women seem to revel in bashing Christians, Catholic person in particular, I think you’ll have a different take when another group who isn’t quite so forgiving begins to take you to task for your supposed transgressions. If you think Catholics have been evil toward women, I suggest you take a look around. I keep reading about honor killings, genital mutilation, and other acts that various–hopefully mostly radical–sects of Islam seem to tolerate. I also notice that such intentions have not been growing smaller in size of groups, even here in the US.

      We can certainly hope that our Muslim brothers and sisters will come to their own “enlightened” state of mind, the better for public safety and civil life at large.
      If they don’t do so, I think some of you more “liberated” women will be in for some very difficult times.

  • Arekushieru

    Wrong. A ruptured uterus can lead to death, and her children would have been left without a mother, the very same children YOU ignored. So, who is the one who selfishly wants women to breed as many children as possible just so that HE (yes, in this and the following example the word ‘he’ is intentionally capitalized, after all, imposing risks on others that you, yourself, know you will never have to assume and patronizingly minimizing them at the same time, is the most egregious form of hypocrisy imagineable. And God so dislikes a hypocrite.) may live as HE wishes to live, as the greedy sinner he is? Hint: It’s NOT us. TBSS.

  • Mike

    If i was just “goo” at 4 weeks when did i become me? at 24 weeks? How did it happen that after birth i become me even though i was still attached to my mother via the u. cord? When did this magical thing happen that transformed me into me from bio goo? And if it happened to me after birth, how long after? Why is killing a one week old ok if she’s one week from conception but not if she’s one week from birth?

    If we aren’t sure when bio goo becomes a person shouldn’t we at least err on the side of caution in case we end up killing one by mistake?

    • conversate

      The fetus does not develop the capacity for sentience/consciousness until at least 24-28 weeks.

      Prior to that it’s just a mindless animal organism – human DNA, but no personality, no self, no mind.

      Why don’t we err on the side of caution and not enslave women in service of something that you aren’t even sure is a person.

      • Mike

        I wish i could agree that it is not a person but it was me and you, you were once a week old and only an inch and it wasn’t your brother or a kidney but you…i am sorry i don’t know how to get around the fact that i was once that big too.

        PS are you saying that after 24 weeks we should stop killing the growing, living, but not person, things?

        • conversate

          *I* was never a zygote an embryo or a fetus. The zygote is merely a genetic blueprint. The embryo is a bit further along, but it is still only potential. Same with the fetus. Until born, and developing a personality, the ZEF is only a potential person, nothing more.

          • Mike

            I know exactly what you mean and i would agree with you IF: once the sperm and egg “met” the new thing maybe disappeared into the womb, it didn’t have a distinct unique dna and it i don’t know incubated for 2 weeks and then it either “dissolved” into the surrounding tissue or in some circumstance began developing into a human being a person. I’ve even made this argument to my wife that in this case “abortion” would be morally neutral (but then bc it wouldn’t be abortion after all would it). I’ve also thought well what if humans procreated spontaneously that in that case it would be hard to “impose” the pregnancy on people.

            Look i know you honestly don’t believe that “you” were ever a zygote but i also know that you know that when your mother had a zygote in her womb about 9 months before you were born, that that zygote was not your brother, or your aunt or a piece of a liver, or some deformed sperm agglomeration or whatever but it was really you. It had your dna your eye color your hair your height maybe even your sexual orientation were already set.

            I used to be “pro-choice” until i started looking into embryology and those web sites that show you what your baby looks like at 4 – 9 weeks or whatever.

            I honestly wish that we laid eggs, i am 100% in agreement that whatever happens happens INSIDE of a women and that that is no trifle. There is no getting around the FACT that no matter what we say it happens inside another person’s body and that presents real “issues”. But there’s something else i am 100% certain of and it’s that intentionally expelling a growing human being out of it’s mother’s womb is morally wrong.

            Are you familiar with the double effect principle the Catholic church teaches? That if you are getting radiation therapy and the secondary unintentional effect is to kill the fetus then it is morally ok?

            Here’s the other issue: and i know you think this is totally insane but when you say “potential person” it really does make me cringe bc it well honestly reminds me of what we used to say about slaves or women who couldn’t vote bc they weren’t “real” citizens or when poles and jews were considered not really human.

            Anyway i honestly wish you were right and that these ZEF really weren’t human and unique and etc. If they really were like pimples etc. this debate would cease immediately and would never be brought up again, never. But alas things aren’t that clear.

            Thanks for engaging, much appreciated.

          • conversate

            Unique DNA does not a person make.

            Its a privilege to be born, not a right. Our mothers are not SLAVES.

          • Mike

            I guess i would ask who gets to decide who does and doesn’t get to be born? I suppose the fathers don’t deserve a vote?

          • conversate

            If you ejaculate inside a woman does this give you ownership of her body and potentially her life and health?

          • Mike

            No of course not but if you are the father of the child she will carry doesn’t that at least give you a say?

          • conversate

            You can say what you want. But, I think it would be wrong to use the law to force her to gestate a fetus for you.

          • Mike

            yes you may be right about that…but if women could expel the fetus by themselves i think that would be a real cause for privacy but as far as i know women can’t on their own expel or kill the fetus…by themselves means totally naturally without pills or doctors.

            i understand you believe this would enslave women.

          • conversate

            They used to, with the help of midwives. This service is growing again now that clinics are closing. And women are ordering chemical abortifacients over the internet.

            BTW mike, you sound like a genuinely nice person. Thank you for that. Its refreshing.

          • Mike

            thanks. like i said i was on your “side” only 5 years ago so i think i understand the genuine concerns. I’ve made the argument that if women could really privately expel the fetus or whatever simply by their i don’t know psychic powers or say by starving themselves then unfortunately i don’t think laws outlawing that could be constitutional bc then they would really be infringing on privacy but as it is women require a pill produced by a corporation or a midwife with tools etc. etc. so the procedure is never private.

            ps when i was about 17 my mother told me she was pregnant with her boyfriend’s baby; we were poor and i panicked; immediately i told her i wouldn’t help her raise it; my father lived a world away and they were divorced. A couple of weeks later she told me not worry and that she was sorry for scaring me and that she had had an abortion. I remember not understanding quite what that meant but was relieved to know i wouldn’t be saddled with this. Today i believe 100% that if she hadn’t aborted that the girl or boy would have helped to repair the wounds that have plagued my family – my brother is a drug addict, etc. etc. Plus the child was a mix of middle eastern/arab and european blood so would have been gorgeous. Sometimes i try to picture them and their curly hair and olive skin. My wife and i carried a child to term last year after our 20 week ultrasound revealed he wouldn’t be able to breath outside. When we delivered him we got 2 hours with him and my mother cried so hard for 2 days it made my inlaws wonder, but i know who she was crying for.

            All the best.

          • Victor

            ((( My wife and i carried a child to term last year after our 20 week ultrasound revealed he wouldn’t be able to breath outside. When we delivered him we got 2 hours with him and my mother cried so hard for 2 days it made my inlaws wonder, but i know who she was crying for.)))
            Mike! I’m sure that I’m not the only person who found a few tears in their eyes after having read your comment.

          • Mike

            Thanks.

  • almond_bubble_tea

    Just because your aunt survived a complicated pregnancy doesn’t mean lady_black’s mom would have the same experience. It actually sounds like lady_black’s mom was literally at death’s door since there was a dead fetus involved. You don’t know the whole story so it’s not a good idea to make snap judgements.

    I don’t go around telling every deaf person I know that because my experience with cochlear implants has been mostly positive, they should all opt for this type of surgery. As in every life decision, YMMV (your mileage may vary).

  • April Spring

    “In a Fire, She’d Grab Her Sonogram First”
    She likes to have a trophy of her victim. Just like Gosnell with his trophies of the babies’ feet in jars in his abortion clinic.
    Most killers keep trophies of their killings. This is criminology 101.


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