Medjugorje is a Fraud

Al Kresta adds more testimony to the mountain of reasons why you should stay far away from this fraud. And Rome will soon add its voice to that of the unbroken testimony of every local ordinary to address the fraud  there, reiterating yet again that nothing supernatural is occurring there. In short, Mary is not appearing there and never was.

The bishops and the pope are nice and so will, very likely, simply reiterate that nothing supernatural is occurring without adding (as I will because I am more blunt) that the thing is a fraud, not a mistake.  I’d  stay far away from it, if I were you.

By the way, may I just say that I think I deserve tremendous credit for restraining myself from saying “Medjugorje is a fraud. EIEIO!”

Thanks!  I’m here all week!

Update: A reader demands to know a) how I answer the fact that Pope John Paul II said nice things about Medj and b) how on earth we can explain how a fraud could possibly go on for 31 years.

Three words:  Marcial Maciel Degollado.  The private opinion of even a good and holy Pope is not infallible and Maciel’s fraud (a fraud involving the complicity of numerous others in the Legion) went on for decades longer than that.

Medj is a fraud.  Those who believe in it had been start asking themselves now whether they are going to trust the Church or this fake “vision” when Rome finds–as it will–that the local ordinaries are right to say that nothing supernatural is occurring there. My prayer is that they stick with the Church.

Like Patheos Catholic on Facebook!

Patheos Catholic LogoCLICK HERE TO "LIKE" PATHEOS CATHOLIC ON FACEBOOK

A Plea to Rome: Unplug the Medjugorje Fraud Machine
Interesting Conversation between Patrick Madrid and Patrick Coffin
It would appear Rome is Leaning Toward Shutting Down the Medjugorje Traveling Road Show
Bishop and Exorcist Andrea Gemma on Medjugorje
  • Clare short

    Thank you Fr. David, that is very useful information for me also. Thank you.

  • EBS

    I believe that the Vatican sometimes, in particularly in the case of Medjugorje, has to tread lightly.
    Look at the polar opposite and very emotional comments that have been posted as a reaction to Marks article. There is so much emotion and opinion surrounding this because it has gone on for so long and involved so many people.
    I believe the Vatican doesn’t want to cause a schism of sorts, and perhaps is looking at a right time to “break the news”.
    In the meantime, it’s up to our discernment- I used to read a lot about Medjugorje as a teenager and believed in it.
    As a grown adult, I have stopped reading and following it because it does nothing for my faith. At all! As a priest said in one of the comments- look in your own backyard, or rather your own Church and the Mass, and see the miracle that occurs there continually, daily in the Eucharist. Faith is about trusting in Gods word, not following things like Medjugorje- it’s a bit immature in my opinion, because people worship it more than they ought to.
    And to have a personal dialogue with God, is to know God speaks to us all the time. His voice is a whisper, and you’ve gotta let go of the distractions to hear it. Medjugorje and the like are just sensational occurrences that shouldn’t drive our Faith. God Himself, along with the guiding hand of His Mother Mary, guide our Faith.
    And to the people that converted because of Medjugorje, that’s great. Let hope their faith has grown enough for them to not credit this place in Croatia as the source of their faith. As it is God that ought to be the cause and purposes for our Faith.

    • William LaRue

      Do some reading. The Vatican has very good reason to fear the truth about Medjugorge; having researched the past history of this place it is apparent why they are being circumspect. Absolute bombshell information.

      • Anne

        William, could you please recommend some books we should read?

        • William LaRue

          There don’t seem to be many books about the history of the area, probably for very good reason. If I were to recommend a search for information, I would fire up Google and Wikipedia, looking for non-propaganda (there’s a lot of that) sources and specifically looking for the past history of the Ustashe. But be careful what you wish for, I know of a lot of people who have had great difficulty with the information that is out there; not because it is phony, but because you have to sift through at least three different versions of the truth, and once you do, the horror of what you confront can shake your faith to its core. I’m not trying to be melodramatic here, just realize that it is very, very disturbing. The story is epic in scope, and the only mystery is why the Church hasn’t squelched this nonsense in the past so that the whole tale doesn’t become known. Dan Brown really blew it with “Da Vinci Code”; this is much larger, more sinister, and more intense than that could ever be. It would make a great movie, but many people would never believe it, even though it is very true, and very well documented.

  • Clare short

    I’d like to apologise if any of my comments have been sarcastic! Sorry! I will be flying to medj in a few Weeks and will remember you all. God bless, and stop this pointless bickering!

    • William LaRue

      Say Hi to the Gospa for me. Love the dress…

      • Mary

        I’m sorry but this tops all comments for cheap talk – REALLY REALLY CHEAP! Very sad indeed….

        • William LaRue

          The sad thing, in this instance, is that no one in the Vatican has the fortitude to let the laity know the extent and truly horrible nature of this fraud. It is probably going to disturb the “true believers” to hear how bad this nonsense actually is, but better that than to allow this evil nonsense to go on indefinitely. Better that you should go to one of the legitimate sites and experience something that the Church has investigated and found authentic. It doesn’t have that Disneyland “pop” to it, however, which is more in keeping with the subtle nature of our encounters with the Divine.

          I will admit one thing, however; people have had genuine faith experiences in Medj. That this is due to people’s faith, and not to some holy nature of this travesty, is testament to the power of faith and not to a clumsily manufactured scheme. That faith can overcome this evil fraud and bring people closer to God is the actual miracle of this phenomenon.

          So, as it turns out, the cheap talk is the bushwa that is being churned out by the PR machine run by the con artists in Medj; tourism brings in countless millions to the place and it seems to have more staying power than Disneyworld. I hope your trip went well, but you will have to wait to see Our Lady.

          • Mary

            William YOU DO NOT KNOW that: the people who have had genuine faith experiences in Medjugorje “is due to people’s faith, and not to some holy nature of this ….”. Did you know that source of the Divine Mercy devotions, St Faustina was also disapproved by the church for some time??? As indeed is the situation for MANY others that are later accepted wholeheartedly by the church. I just ask that you reserve judgement – just as the church itself is currently doing. I don’t accept at all that the Medjugorje apparitions have been rejected by the church as it appears to have been stated somewhere on this page. If you have please give me full references.

            But most important of all please note that you DO NOT help ANYONE by using language such as I am objecting to here. If you want to win friends and influence people PLEASE SHOW SOME RESPECT. That goes for everyone in this page. As Catholics we are supposed to be leading Christians, but so many here are anything BUT Christian in their choice of words and intolerance.

            • William LaRue

              The controversies about the Divine Mercy devotions has nothing to do with the comments I have made, either in fact nor as an example of changes over time. If you take the time to research the history of the region and the background on these “apparitions” you will see that not only is it patently bogus, but that there is a very dark, sinister undercurrent that is associated with organizations linked to the whole effort. The massive propaganda apparatus that daily churns out the words of the Gospa is not just based on the faithful; when traced to its source, one can easily see that this effort has its roots in a sophisticated PR campaign whose strategic goals have absolutely nothing to do with anything holy (actually quite the opposite is the case). I will not reserve judgement on this evil endeavor, doing that cost upwards of a million lives in the region during one of the most horrific episodes in the WWII era, and the Church was hip deep in the mess. Do some reading, Mary, before you swallow the bait being cast out by these charlatans. The scandal here is that the Church knows full well what is going on, and they have not put a stop to the phenomenon due to an attempt to avoid negative publicity about their history in the area, and in some cases a desire to have something to inspire the faithful. The complete abrogation of the rules that the Church has promulgated on the approval of apparitions in this case speaks volumes about this nonsense, as does the lifestyle of the “seers”, the activities of those who advise them, and the false prophesies from the Gospa. It is rubbish, and delusional attempts to make it more than that do nothing to authenticate this travesty.

              I reject your implication that I am required to help anyone by carefully choosing words to describe this phenomenon. I will show absolutely no respect for this deranged scam and do not care to win friends nor do I care to influence anyone who does not take the time to vet his or her belief in fantastic schemes. This whole con game has been amplified in the absence of official recognition by the Church, has been amply condemned by the local Bishop, and that should be enough to deter anyone from belief in this supposed vision. The desire for miracles in life has motivated a segment of the faithful for centuries, but it is no more valid today than it was in the past. I would further inform you that I am picking and choosing my language carefully, out of respect for the individuals who are reading this who might be traumatized by my uncensored thoughts, or by the full details of the story, which is so devastating that many who have encountered them have been shaken to the core of their faith. Yes, it is indeed that bad. I do not exaggerate in making this statement, which should motivate you to investigate to determine what could possibly be that evil; I have a notion (however mistaken that might be) that this won’t happen in the case of the “true believers” among the Gospa fans, because they seem to desire fantasy more than truth. Please make an attempt to discern the facts in the case before you become emotionally attached to something that is evil incarnate.

          • Mary

            By the way I haven’t been and currently don’t have plans to go to Medjugorje, so your assumption and subsequent cheap comment that “you will have to wait to see Our Lady” is unfounded.

            • William LaRue

              My comment was actually for Clare; sorry that I referred to you as the person who was going. My other comments still stand, and are much more accurate. I applaud your decision not to go to Medj; the less support for the fraud going on there the better off we will be. There is no extra charge for cheap comments.

  • http://ninomania.blogspot.com David M. Wagner

    Great post, Mark!

  • Thomas D

    As you see Medjugorje led some off the ‘deep end.’

  • Sam Wood

    How ’bout “Medjugorje is a fraud…doo dah, doo dah!”

  • Laura Kazlas

    Ok. Here is some legitimate documentation in the Pope’s own handwriting, regarding Medjugorje:

    Denis Nolan authored a book titled Medjugorje and the Church, the 2007 version of which contains photos of eight letters (accompanied by the English translations) written by the late pope that reference the alleged apparitions.

    http://www.renewamerica.com/columns/abbott/071201

    Pope John Paul II not only corresponded with the visionaries, but they also visited him personally. I’m not saying Pope John Paul II personally “endorsed” Medjugorje, but he did say that none of the messages revealed anything contrary to the gospel or the Catholic faith.

    Does anyone have proof that there has ever been a single thing recorded in Our Lady’s messages that is contrary to the gospel or our Catholic faith?

    Tomorrow, Our Lady usually appears to the visionaries and gives us a message (on the 2nd of each month). Let’s see what she has to say tomorrow! Will there be anything in what she says that is contrary to the gospel? Or the Catholic faith? If not, then what’s the big deal if we believe her appearances are real – or not?

    I quit smoking because of Our Lady of Medjugorje. I was a two pack a day smoker for 20 years. I couldn’t quit on my own. I tried everything under the sun, to try to quit smoking and I just couldn’t. I prayed to Our Lady of Medjugorje and she helped me quit smoking. I have been a non-smoker for 20 years now. And, that is a real life miracle.

    • Klaus

      No, it’s not. Quitting smoking is a laudable achievement. It is not a miracle.

    • Elaine T

      For questionable things the ‘seers’ have reported go to the bishop’s website and read the link titled :The Truth About Medjugorie. The seers are documented as having lied, and also as quoting the apparition as supporting two men as ‘innocent’ when the bishop, and saying that they should not obey the bishop. There’s also something in there about the figure saying ‘all faiths are equal’. Sample from it:
      January 20, 1982. The children asked what Rev. Ivica Vego and Rev. Ivan Prusina were to
      do now that they were thrown out of the Order. Our Lady answered: “They are innocent. The
      bishop was harsh in his decision. They can stay.”
      April 15, 1982. Vicka asked Our Lady a question. “Could you generally tell me everything
      about Ivica Vego and Ivan Prusina?” Our Lady smiled at the first and then she said: “They are innocent.”
      She repeated twice that: “The bishop has made a mistake… let them remain in Mostar… they
      can say Mass sometimes but may they be careful to stay away from attention until things calm
      down. They have no faults…”

      Vego is the one whom the Franciscans kicked out for having a mistress and fathering children.

      /relurking/

  • Bill

    So what are you saying Father? It’s a blog. It’s meant to spark debate and enlightenment.

    I see your point but I think you’re missing the target here. Mark Shea and other Catholic bloggers are doing their level best to present the truth of the faith as honestly and ad forthcoming as they can

    Do excesses need to be corrected? Sure. But you’re throwing the baby out with the bath water here.

  • Fr. David Abernethy, C.O.

    Bill,

    I assume you are addressing my comments. In no way did I say that Catholic blogs lack value or should be disregarded – as you suggest. However, in the the pressing “need” to comment on everything and the desire to provoke discussion there is often much that is sacrificed and things are often stated in a fashion that is blatantly inflammatory in tone. Contrary to what many may think, cleverness is not necessarily a virtue and it often gives way to mockery and hostility in the exchanges that take place. It seems to me that Catholic bloggers should be seeking to create culture that encourages a certain refinement in those who participate in the discussions they initiate; interaction where there is an expectation of civility and politeness and even a little formality. Sensitivity to others, thoughtfulness, and good manners should be viewed as concrete means of expressing and reinforcing charity. The rush to publish can lead a person to neglect such considerations and scurrility in behavior can quickly take over. The style of writing can still be familiar and direct without devolving into the attitudes and practices I mention above. Laziness in writing and thinking has become the acceptable standard especially in online forums. The subculture that Catholic blogs create isn’t just a matter of manners. It goes deeper than that in my mind. The external forms that express the distinctiveness of Catholic living have the important function in preserving and transmitting the values they embody. Are Catholic bloggers doing their level “best”? I don’t know but I think such things as I have mentioned above should be given due consideration.

    • Bill

      We are all sensitive to the coarseness Father. Nobody here wants reductions to the lowest common denominator. I just worry that as we are reminded not to take it too far, we don’t go anywhere at all.

  • Bill

    I didn’t say nor imply that you thought they didn’t have value.

    I hear what you’re saying and I think your statements are truisms and but I still think you’re giving a lot of people short shrift. There are a lot of tabloids out there. But I think we are enriched by guys like Mark Shea. Especially when they say things we don’t want to hear.

  • Bill

    It’s his blog, not mine or yours or anyone else’s. He doesn’t need my defense. But I am thankful I get the chance to read him regularly.

  • Fr. David Abernethy, C.O.

    Bill,

    Well you did say that I was throwing out the baby with the bath water – as if my concern was a dismissal of the value and importance of Catholic bloggers. I read Mark’s blog and others regularly too (and have had him as a guest speaker at various events) but the style of writing and commenting on posts often lacks not only a generosity of spirit towards others and civility but the “opinions” shared are at times not measured or very thoughtful. In this case, and most cases, I don’t disagree with Mark’s view and believe the Church’s judgment to be essential in this matter. Why you dismiss my comments as mere truisms is interesting given that most of what I express as being important and valuable doesn’t seem so obvious from the blogs that I read or to those who offer comments on them. The freedom of exchange of ideas online is great but it has changed the way the people think, write and interact with each other. I’m certainly not afraid of the truth or of engaging others with differing opinions but I am sensitive the coarseness of the tone that places the one’s view (accurate as it may be) above the dignity of others. For example, Mark’s comment at the beginning “Medjugorje is a fraud. EIEIO!” may seem clever but for those who have experienced spiritual blessings in their life from pilgrimages made, or spiritual practices embraced because of the messages deserve more than having a sledgehammer taken to their devotion. One can express the importance and necessity of abiding by the Church’s judgment without overstating things. Is it the job of 50 unknown strangers to set someone straight? Are we all so far above being frauds, often in ways hidden to us, that we can set upon one another with impunity? And yet, as I said in another comment, there is almost a morbid delight we show now exposing and criticizing the woundedness of the Church or her members. While certainly some things warrant or demand critique, including the focus of this post, and need to be addressed, our love for the Church should not make us mock her (in this case those who had or have a devotion to Medjugorie) as good for nothing or ugly: especially while we remain hidden ourselves in the anonymity of cyberspace. R. Cantalamessa once wrote: “once you have wept with the Church, once you have humbled yourself at its feet, God can command you as he has done in the past to raise your voice against the ‘wounds of the Church.’ But not before.” It is with thought in mind that I lay my “truisms” before you.

    • William LaRue

      Yours is an all too common response to criticisms of Medjugorje. I know it might be difficult to accept, but God can move you at a chili dog stand. Or at a pot luck dinner with other parishoners. The fact that you made the trip out of faith, endured the rigors of travel, were gathered with other faithful to pray is what caused the increase of faith, not some scam mongers who got you there. That is one side of the equation; no one is (hopefully) trying to invalidate your faith experience. The other side, however, is the overwhelming facts that have piled up that clearly show that the visions are not authentic, coupled with the fact that there is a documented path from the money made off of the tourist trade and the efforts of extremist groups to carry out ethnic cleansing in the surrounding areas. So we are at loggerheads, aren’t we. what is more important: faith or genocide? Believe me when I tell you, investigation into the history of this place will chill your soul. And it is not ancient history. The Church I’m sure is being careful due to the increase in faith experienced here, but they are also treading lightly due to some not so complementary information that may come out once the whole scope of the enterprise is known. Having said all of that, my heart goes out to all who experienced an increase of faith due to your visit; it just goes to prove that God can create good, even in the face of such unmitigated evil. You are living proof of that triumph. Don’t sulk; be proud of what you represent.

      • Mirna

        well said, William! :)

    • michicatholic

      ^ Truism.

  • nadster

    Face it folks, Med. is at best a well-run scam by some sheep herders, who are now married to beauty queens and living in places like Massachusetts and Italy, raking in millions from trinkets and speeches. And I was once a believer. I also hoarded cans of beans prepping for Y2K, bought batteries in prep for the three days of darkness and once believed a prophecy that only Carmelites and Legionaries would be the remaining faithful Catholics. The Maciel happened.

  • http://te-deum.blogspot.com Diane K

    This thread has gotten quite long. I have responded in Kathy Schiffer’s thread(and one of my comments is awaiting moderation).

  • Klaus

    It is depressing to see how many videos there are on YouTube of the Medjugoogoo “visionaries” having prescheduled visits with Our Lady. Naturally, only they can see her, but the crowd can be certain of her presence thanks to the staring into middle distance, spontaneous tears… oh, and the time on the clock, since Our Lady always turns up at the predetermined hour.

    Honestly people, this is one step away from Veronica Leuken and her ludicrous traffic light system.

    • Klaus

      (A flashing blue light meant the Virgin Mary was appearing to Veronica. Flashing red for Jesus. Thought I’d better clear that up for those not into reading about crank visionaries.)

  • Tom

    if the church has not ruled out about the apparitions, how can this guy say that it’s a fraud? I’ve been in medjugorje, I saw the sun spinning, it was amazing……Don’t believe him….

    • Mark Shea

      The church has ruled–twice–that nothing supernatural is happening there via the local bishops.

    • William LaRue

      Wishful thinking combined with preconceived notions of what might happen combined with a heaping helping of crowd hysteria would do the trick; people have seen stranger things. You might have also seen magicians pull stunts like making aircraft carriers disappear. The crowd swears that he did it. Magic! Not miracles. Not by a long shot.

      Before you pass judgement on the Gospa and her posse, please take some time to examine the history of this area. Read about what happened before, during and after WWII. Read up on concentration camps, Ustasha and the role of the Franciscans. Then get back with me about what you’re thinking then. You thought the sun was spinning? You ain’t seen nothin’ yet.

    • kathie

      Could that be a prodigy of Satan?

  • Clare
    • Mark Shea

      Clearly, Itallian footballers trump the teaching of two bishops.

  • Clare

    I’m loving the way you always have to try to get the last word in Mark!!! 😉

  • Sean L Tobin

    I am certainly not qualified to say more than it would appear, according to a Bishop friend who went there, that he could not say whether or not Our Blessed Mother was appearing there but he did feel that many visitors were returning to the Church because of their experiences.

  • Anne

    Unfortunately many people who go to Medjugorje are seeking an ‘experience’ of some kind, or some ‘good feelings’. Some come back claiming visions of their own…and that is unfortunate. If we look at the lives of the Saints, we see and hear about suffering and dryness in prayer etc. I do believe Medjugorje is a very dangerous deception and many people will fall away when it is discovered as such. There is a huge danger in relying on visions and apparitions. Another thing that has somewhat bewildered me was, why did all six of these visionaries marry. Not one of them stayed single or became a religious. I find that most strange. When I think of St. Bernadette and all she went through to be obedient to her Parish Priest and enter a Convent.

    Its all very sad that so many believe in these messages of this very strange site of ‘apparitions’.

    • Mary

      What a strange statement “Not one of them stayed single or became a religious. I find that most strange. When I think of St. Bernadette and all she went through to be obedient to her Parish Priest and enter a Convent.” Marriage is essential to family life which is the most fundamental unit of Christian society and is graced with one of the seven Sacraments – becoming a religious doesn’t necessarily involve such a special sacrament except for priests in religious orders. Are you saying that marriage is sinful? That we should all be religious if we truly want to be holy???????? oh dear…..

  • Rose

    I have been to medjugorje and found it to be a very peaceful place. if it was so called false as you are trying to say then why are there so many people returning to the church. Alot of people have been healed while visiting medjugorje. I personnally seen the sun spin and beautiful colours coming from it. Also seen two crosses in the sky when it was clear as. go and visit and see for yourself do not take anyones word for it. My life has changed since being there I am becoming closer to god everyday and i would not give that up for anything. thank you Medjugorje for your gift of love.

  • john konnor

    Wherefore she is hailed as a pre-eminent and singular member of the Church, and as its type and excellent exemplar in faith and charity. The Catholic Church, taught by the Holy Spirit, honors her with filial affection and piety as a most beloved mother.-Lumen Gentium 53
    … so i am having trouble here… how as a member of the church is Mary able to order the pope ? … Mary certainly has some extraordinary charisms and graces bestowed upon her as a most perfect creation however she does not have the authority to contradict the Gospel… what the apostles bind on earth shall also be bound in heaven….
    Graf: The Bishop has the duty to judge whether or not this is Our Lady.
    Vicka: He can judge as he wants, but I know that it is Our Lady
    Graf: The Church says of those who are confident in themselves, that this itself is a sign that Our Lady is not in question here.
    Vicka: Let those who are doubtful remain doubtful. I’m not.
    Graf: This is not a good thing. .. You once told the Bishop that he should pay more attention to Our Lady than to the Pope.
    Vicka: Yes, I did…
    Graf: You told the Bishop that he is to blame and that those two (Vego and Prusina) are innocent and can perform their priestly duties.
    Vicka: Yes I did…
    Graf: Our Lady said this, and the Pope says they cannot?(29)
    Vicka: The Pope can say what he wants. I’m telling it as it is

    There are at least two messages from the “Gospa” actually threatening Bishop Zanic, the Ordinary of Mostar-Duvrno at the beginning of the “apparitions”, with reprisals for not approving of the apparitions:April 26, 1982:

    “The Bishop has no real love of God in his heart. Regarding the Bishop, may Ivica (Vego) and Ivan (Prusina) remain calm. What the Bishop is doing is contrary to the will of God, yet he can do as he pleases, but one day justice such as you have never seen shall be revealed.

    “Regarding this supposed statement of the Virgin, one should keep in mind these words of the Mystical Doctor, St. John of the Cross:”He (the devil) is wont occasionally to reveal falsely, but with great distinctness, the sins of others � with a view to detraction.”
    …how can Mary say this? it is not consistent with the voice of a humble loving mother … i have trouble with medjugorje…. true people are attending the sacraments but this is entirely owing to a collective hysteria there are many problems with the messages… thanks for the posts

  • Keith Michael Estrada

    I’m no Bishop. An apparition is not necessitated by an increase of faith. If two or three are gathered in His name, He’ll be there. Those who gained spiritual strength may have been misled, if indeed the whole thing was a scam. However they may have certainly had a personal experience with the Divine, as He is not limited by scams.

  • Humphrey

    I recently had an interesting dialogue concerning Blessed Pope John Paul II & Fatima this person a Traditional Catholic , Had posted a video clip of Fr.Gabriel Amorth he was talking about Fatima & Pope John Paul’s consecration. He stated That Pope John Paul II was not allowed to say Russia. This person who posted the Video was insisting that the consecration was not valid. I presented the other side of the argument, interviews with Sr.Lucia, & Also a former employee of Fr.Gruner’s who pretty much exposed Fr.Gruner as a fraud. Interesting that they were quite ignorant about Fatima, When I mentioned, for Instance William T Walsh’s Book about Fatima They snapped who’s Walsh. When i took direct quotes from Sister Lucia mentioning Pope Pius XII consecration they knew nada they only were interested in Fatima Network and sensationalism. Many Traditionalist do not support Medjugorje but support Bayside Prophecy?? I very much like Fr.Gabriel Amorth, I read some of his books, interesting to note this “so called” Traditionalist read none of them they only knew their sound bite from a youtube video. which they completely misinterpreted & twisted . I was also told about Mr.Salza an ex Mason, who has appeared on EWTN and states The Consecration was not valid. I was told but if he was on EWTN it must be true, I presented evidence of contrary opinion from EWTN Library, When I told them That Fr.Gabriel Amorth supported Medjugorje They said NO HE DOES NOT. He is the HEAD Exorcist. they had chanted this throughout our dialogue. I ignored this silly statement he is an exorcist for the diocese of Rome. I then presented them with Fr.Amorth’s Interview in his own words how he supports Medjugorje. They were truly upset by all the evidence i presented that was factual They said I will delete this conversation since its to upsetting . They did not want their friends to see the truth & know Fr.Amorth supports Medjugorje.They also lied about deleting the information i posted. I realized something about this person that they were not interested in the truth & they were a liar working for the Prince of Lies. and are a sad pathetic caricature of the Catholic Church. . never ever would assume I know more then Pope John Paul II, I can assume that he prayed very very very hard over Fatima that is why he did the consecration again 1984. Can you imagine the sacrifices he offered. For the first time I thought about this, This was a very Holy Man very dedicated to Our Lady. I am sure he fulfilled Our Blessed Mother’s wishes, Gods ways are not ours. We are fools and as a very great Priest who was devoted To Fatima stated, I love going on pilgrimages To Lourdes Fatima but I can see Jesus every day in the Blessed Sacrament. Sister Lucy before she died in an interview stated “he who is with the pope is with God, He who is not with The Pope is not with God. This is something many so called Traditionalist & others need to know. Our Lady’s warning was about disobedience To The Holy Father. Penance Penance Penance, Pope.John Paul when confronted by these fanatics held up the Rosary.
    .All the faithful of Christ must believe “that the Apostolic See and the Roman Pontiff hold primacy over the whole world, and that the Pontiff of Rome himself is the successor of the blessed Peter, the chief of the apostles, and is the true vicar of Christ and head of the whole Church and faith, and teacher of all Christians; and that to him was handed down in blessed Peter, by our Lord Jesus Christ, full power to feed, rule, and guide the universal Church, just as is also contained in the records of the ecumenical Councils and in the sacred canons. God Bless The Holy Father!

  • Humphrey

    Also Pope John Paul II never visited Medjugorje. The Holy See is being very smart about this. Some believe it is a chess game with the Devil. Since the visions seem phony over the top they have already caused disobedience If The Holy See was to openly disapprove of Medjugorje Many might leave the Church which is Satan’s goal. So for those believing there have been conversions due to Medjugorje, they are wrong Christ will convert The Faithful & protect them. Disobedience is not acceptable.
    “But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach a gospel to you besides that which we have preached to you, let him be anathema.”

  • George

    Better late than never… Regarding this sentence “A reader demands to know a) how I answer the fact that Pope John Paul II said nice things about Medj” I believe it hasn’t been yet posted here:
    Cardinal Ratzinger (now Benedict XVI) has declared in 1998 that no statement concerning Medjugorje has even been issued by Pope John Paul II; any such statement therefore needs to be considered a myth, wishful thinking, or outright deceit. This information can be found on the Bishop of Mostar’s website, here http://www.cbismo.com/index.php?mod=vijest&vijest=101 (search for the phrase “frei erfunden”)

  • John G

    I have been twice. I wish I hadn ‘t. I was taken in by all that nonsense. Now I stick to Lourdes and Walsingham where our Lady has appeared. She has not appeared in Medjitsgorythere

  • Suzie

    “By your fruits they will know ye”. I look at the circumstantial evidence. None of the principal “seers” entered the religious life. They all chose the secular; nice income, nice homes. Whereas the seers of Vatican-approved visions became nuns for the most part. The other thing is the Medj folks became celebrities. True visionaries shunned the limelight. God preaches humility. Finally, Medj is a huge commercial enterprise with it’s heavy adversting, it’s fancy website, it’s expensive tour packages, it’s hotels. The “visions” have to be regular and infinite to keep those tourists coming. That’s not the way of God. The other shrines are nothing like that carnival sideshow that is Medj. They have a solemn nature about them. Medj doesn’t. Medj is of the ridiculous.

    • Shar_M

      ?

      The question of Medj’s veracity aside, I find your comment “seers of Vatican-approved visions become nuns for the most part” to be disappointing — you seem to be saying laity can’t be following the vocation God means for them. Perhaps at a time of so much divorce and apparent disrespect for marriage, a call to model a God-centered and lasting marriage is something the world needs more of.

      • Mirna

        He just said the majority do become nuns/monks, he didn’t say lay people can’t be seers or can’t be saints, while following the vocation God meant for them. The point here is, if someone had experienced seeing and talking with the Blessed Virgin, their lives and souls especially would be dramatically different! There will be a dramatic change also in one’s life, because the Grace of GOD had touched them so much, that they become detached from the outside world. The medjugorje seers certainly behave and live in a different manner to what someone being touched by GOD’s Grace so profoundly, would be acting and living.

  • Gabriel

    So what happens if the Church blesses Medjugorje? Will you condemn that finding as a fraud? When Medjugorje first appeared on the scene I was fascinated. Then came a time when I had my doubts about it— the hearsay and gossip surrounding the seers and priests involved poisoned the well. BUT— over the years, the more I investigate, the more I have come to believe that it is actually authentic. One must not ignore the fact that as of today June 5, 2013, the Church has not condemned it as a fraud. As for the message, it is very in line with Catholic teaching. Why would the devil be urging people to go to confession, to pray the Rosary and to do everything the Catholic Church teaches, with countless conversions being reported. Yes, the answer is obvious:

    One could say that once the rug was pulled out from everyone’s feet and the seers confessed a fraud, a shock wave would crumble the faith of the millions who flocked there believing they had a mystical experience.

    On the other hand, we live in extremely perverted times, and judging by the vision of hell in the apparition of Fatima because of the sinfulness of man in 1917, it could be that the is taking extraordinary measures to ignite the faith in a rapidly decaying world. Also, discrediting Medjugorje based on it becoming a huge commercial enterprise, I must ask—have you been to Lourdes lately? The devil always wants to ruin something good; Satan is the master of spreading misinformation, slandering the innocent and weaving half truths..

    • chezami

      I’ve already answered that. If the Church declares Medjugorje worthy of belief, I will respect the Church’s decision, of course. I will not believe it myself (since I am under no obligation to accept any private revelation). But I will certainly respect the Church’s find.

      That said, I don’t believe for one moment it is an issue I will have to confront because I don’t believe for on moment the Church will approve Medjugorje.

    • William LaRue

      The messages contain incredible amounts of calls to disobedience, calls to believers that suggest that pantheism and other false doctrines be adhered to, prophesies that have never materialized, and omit information that has been contained in the authenticated apparitions. This whole “the world is ending and these are the signs” business is laughable. Christ said that it is not ours to know (or His for that matter) when the end is coming. Anyone who tells you otherwise is making claims that run counter to His teachings. I think I will stick with what Jesus says.

      The Church is probably never going to condemn it as a fraud. The worst that they normally do is to say that there is evidence that it is not supernatural. That’s it. I bet a buck that the gullible, the “sinners” seeking easy conversions, the ultraconservatives will keep right on coming, unless the Church issues an extraordinary edict to stop the fleecing of the flock. As for the questions about the Devil’s motives, a smarter person than I observed that the Devil is satisfied with 99% holiness, he just wants his 1%

    • Mirna

      you CANNOT liken Lourdes & Fatima to Medjugorje. Lourdes had AUTHENTIC SOLID miracles, the impact so powerful on Bernadette, after she met Our Lady, that she left the world to become a religious, and then became a Saint. The Fatima seers: The miracle of the sun was witnessed by THOUSANDS, Francesco and Jacinta became Blesseds & Lucia, very drawn to holiness, left the world to become a religious at a Carmelite Monastery. But with Medjugorje, all there was were messages that even I could have made up from the top of my head for the past 31 years!! People who say they got conversions etc were because they actually prayed a lot and were amidst others who were praying a lot. GOD is not going to ignore people’s prayers just because of a bunch of fake seers. Seriously, if someone saw the Blessed Virgin for years, the REAL Blessed Virgin, that is, their lives and souls would be SOOO different, yet not ONE of these seers was moved to enter a religious life or something extraordinary was displayed in their soul, to show to the nations, that they were truly Blessed with the presence of the Mother of GOD. It is a shame though if today, a lot of people are taking advantage to capitalise on the miracle of Lourdes and sell unnecessary merchandise, but bear in mind, this is not something the actual seer is doing or participating in, Bernadette became a nun, left all the world and possessions behind, and in the end was canonised a Saint.

  • Robert S.

    I went to Medjugorje in 2001 because I wanted to see for myself the spot where “GOSPA” appeared to 6 youths and was continuing granting them audiences in an ongoing manner. In 2001 Medjugorje was starting to thrive from the huge influx of tourists from around the world. I went to the Hill where “GOSPA” allegedly appeared and then to the research center to see what material they had. Father Jozo Zovko, whom I met personally was very open as he spoke through an interpreter who happened to be one of the visionaries.
    The entire area is an oasis of peace in the midst of the unrest that continues to this day. I never saw any documented evidence that “GOSPA” ever appeared or was still appearing at that time. I only know that there is a sense of great quiet and peace throughout the entire region. My visit was 12 years ago and I have kept tabs on the messages as well as the “secrets” that were allegedly told to the visionaries. They quietly slipped into the background yet the Visionary MIRJANA still receives monthly messages which are little more than words of encouragement to keep praying and draw closer to God.
    It is not my place to say if the six youths REALLY encountered the Mother of Christ. I am hesitant, without absolute proof, to say that it MIGHT be true or an elaborate hoax as many skeptics have said over the years. For me, suffice it to say that IF the visions were and are real then something very special has and continues to occur in that once sleepy little farm village. If the faithful and indeed the world has fallen victim to an elaborate hoax I can but say SHAME on those that originated it and continue to deceive.
    As for myself, my faith lies not in outward displays, but in the inner peace and relationship I have had with “GOSPA” since I was nine years old.

    • William LaRue

      You have illustrated very well the lever that those who are perpetrating this hoax are using. You have also illustrated a facet of belief that transcends the hoax. The area around Medj is anything but peaceful. The history of the area is one of the most violent and disturbing in the western world, especially in the period around WWII. In modern times, there has been an undercurrent of violence that has been hidden from the tourists, as well as active programs of ethnic cleansing that were taking place right under the noses of that same group. The internecine warfare that broke out after Medj first became famous caused the area to be closed to tourists for an extended period, but the town was reopened once the participants in the fracas realized that the money flow was being halted. This activity took place while you were there; it is ironic that you felt such a feeling of peace while being surrounded by the evil of the place. I think that this phenomenon, which has been reported by others, could be ascribed to one of several reasons: Denial of what is happening, Clever manipulation, Overwhelming PR efforts on the part of the backers of the seers, or Faith. I think that the least disturbing reason is Faith; Christ stated many times “Your Faith has saved you”; perhaps this is a facet of what he meant. The pilgrims, en masse, bring a level of faith that overcomes the evil that is taking place and transforms an absolute scam into an experience of peace. The calm and peaceful and moving experiences are due to that fact, not the place, and most certainly not because of the phony “Gospa” nonsense. It just points up that Faith is a much stronger force in our lives than most people would admit.

      • Anne

        I agree with you, William. I was a Medj believer but not anymore. Too much bad things happened there from the beginning: manipulations, lies, controversial stories (messages), unbelievable messages (heresies) etc. The good fruits are because people have faith, sacraments and they pray, not because “Gospa” is appears there.

  • WanderingJew

    Hi Mark Shea. I have no axe to grind on Medjugorge, but something that came from that place certainly affected me. I was and still am a Kosher living Gentile descended from the Tribe Of Dan. Anyway a relative of mine was all her life a devoted Catholic and prayed the rosary every day, and some days more often. Another relative obsessed with Medjugorge having gone there numerous times obtained there some kind of special Rosary beads. I would not go near the thing as I am a firm adherent of the Law, Commandment No 2. To me it is all idolatry. So when on the passing of this relative I had to travel several thousand miles for the funeral, I was very very wore out from traveling and on arrival to her house I fell directly into a deep slumber. On waking moved into the sitting room and sat by the door as other mourners were gathered in the next room and pouring out of the connecting door. I was not alone! There were people all standing to my right. I was just recovering from the tiring trip still and just looking into a distance towards the fireplace side of the very small room and reminiscing about my dear relative. The next thing my view was blocked by a thing like a picture but without a frame. Any I thought this is not happening to me! as I have always prayed not to see such things! What I see is a side view of very white ( I think ) woman’s hands praying. From the hands hung some small wooden beads, not a Rosary beads – I know ever well what that looks like – but a string of beads seemingly held together with something or other. Around this image is a circle of darkening swirling clouds but like in a picture, almost bluish. Even though I have excellent recall and memory I was so shocked by this event that I wanted to run away and began to unconsciously beg the Lord our G_d to take this away right now. Otherwise I seem to recall the clothes of the praying hands as bluish/grey and some white as well. Now as I AM NOT A CHRISTIAN, you may take it that I do not think this is from the Lord G_D. I just don’t know what it is. This event took place in the late 1990’s, I cannot say when exactly or where because of the lunatic fringe such events attract. I do know that had this been intended for others they would have seen it themselves, and I have kept it secret all these years not knowing what it meant or why it happened to me. Now I conclude it is part of the fraud and the origin has to be evil.

    • Mirna

      as a Catholic, I believe in evil manifestations and hauntings of a particular place by devils etc. If it was the Virgin Mary, you would have been given a clear indication & knowledge by the Almighty, that it is Her. Considering she wasn’t carrying Rosary beads and it felt evil, not peaceful, it could very well be a demonic apparition. I wouldn’t be surprised if the origin of this whole medjugorje thing is evil, if those seers are actually seeing anything, it’s a demon and not someone from Heaven. Some of the messages contradicted Bible teachings. One of the seers also lied under oath to the Bishop.

  • Terri Hemker

    Seriously? I’m confused as to whether you are making fun of Father Martin, or he is being sarcastic, or one or both of you actually believe that Satan has cloven hooves….??? (I’m not sure who to laugh at or laugh with…)

  • Mirna

    Mark Shea, you’re a man after my own dear sick of this whole fraud called medjugorje apparitions heart!! but even I didn’t think of that EIEIO bit ha ha ha I’m inspired!!!

  • Mirna

    Another thing I wanted to add, they had a talk at our local church condemning this, I remember something VERY IMPORTANT that was advised to us: All these prayers and conversions etc that are happening at Medjugorje, are due because PEOPLE ARE PRAYING, and not because of any “location” or “apparition”. Had all these people been praying there at the local Church the way they were praying over there in Medjugorje, they would have had THE SAME RESULTS!!!! and how true that is, cause all these people Mark, are just rushing to experience some phenomena, thinking if they go there and pray very hard, something will happen. Yet, they ignore the fact that there is a church in their neighbourhood, if they had prayed as HARD and as FERVENTLY as they did in Medjugorje, SAME RESULT. But of course that’s not as exciting is it? nooooo they want to travel overseas, fork out thousands of dollars, to go to another church somewhere else. The thing with many Catholics is, as soon as you cry “Apparition”, you’ll have a line of old ladies holding rosaries, coming over to see where what how when why etc and other curious old men and some middle aged folks with a little scepticism but with a LOT of curiosity… Seriously, Our Lady spoke to my heart MANY TIMES, maybe I should write those messages down & start a following????!! (I better be careful Mark, I might find some old ladies outside my house tomorrow ha ha ha ha)

  • Terik123

    Amazing…the “visionaries”are given more info than the greatest prophets …clearly deception that will embarrass the church if it approves of the “apparitions.”

  • zoey

    remember Satan powerful too. these visionaries are fake. Virgin Mother would never appear for 30yrs. She Never has in past. She never would say all religions are the same. Jesus HIMSELF said Catholic religion the one TRUE church. HE started it with his life and death. There is no other religion. When the visionary was touched and she flinched and then said it was because Mary dropped infant Jesus. How ridiculous was that. And visionary in past could not be taken out of the vision by any means. they didn’t feel pain NOTHING Funny none of these visionaries entered religious life. that is weird. they are all prancing around making money off this. No other visionary did this cause it wasn’t for the money. Seeing Virgin Mary was so overwhelming to these other people they gave their lives to Her. Satan rules Mejugorje. So beware there is a ton of false statements given by these people. why would all of them need 10 secrets. wouldn’t just one of them do. Mary wouldn’t waste valuable time. and her messages every month are so boring, the same and would she really say every month for 30yrs thank you for responding to my call. Ridiculous. read all messages to see how boring they are, telling nothing. would she wasted 30yrs saying nothing over and over again. THANK YOU FOR RESPONDING TO MY CALL same ending for 30yrs…COME ON REALLY? she needs to thank her audience. she could have been done and over 30yrs ago and this Vicka goes to this place in US where those people have been proven frauds, yet she supposedly speaks to Mary there too. Its all about the money folks. Sister Lucia lived her whole life in a convent. She didn’t say much over the years. she didnt’ prance around making money. she could have been a very rich woman lived in luxury, yet she lived a life of poverty obedience. those people in medjugorje knew they hit the jackpot and all are living high on the hog. They are talking to Satan, not Mary.

  • David

    All Marian apparitions are either deliberate hoaxes or delusions. Study them impartially & the evidences weighs against all of them. They make the faith more convoluted than it already is. Simply trust in the Gospel of Christ and love one another.

    • keely1

      I agree that it can cause confusion. I myself, spent two years pouring over all the info about medjugorje, both good and bad. Both are convincing. I’m not sure they are all hoaxes, though. At Garabundal, something was happening to those girls, but I’m not sure it was from God. If it causes too much confusion, like it did for me, then, yes, trust the
      Gospel and love one another because all of these can become a distraction from the two commandments of Christ. Love God and your neighbor.

  • keely1

    Hooved feet? Isn’t Satan a fallen angel? Angels don’t have hooves, as far as I know. How do we know Satan has hooved feet?

  • Darrell

    I have been to medjugorje three times. The first was in 93, that is when the war was going on. Mostar and Sarajevo was all but destroyed.
    On the second day in medjugorje about thirty of us decided to climbed cross mountain. After dinner we walked about a mile in the dark, and some of us planned on spenting the night up there. I was the one leading the group up the mountain.
    When we were about a third of the way up to the top of the mountain, their was lot’s of round’s of ammunition being fired from down below. Was we scared. I think so, we were all laying flat on the mountain path. Every time we would turn our flashlights on they would spray bullets, but I don’t think they were firing at us.
    After about fifteen minutes of this someone ask what are we going to do. Someone in the group said: Let’s say the rosary, which we did and for the rest of the climb not another shot was heard.
    After reaching the top of the mountain, we sat by the cross and prayed. It was the 12th of october, and warner than normal. Being on top of the mountain the stars seemed so bright.
    I looked up at the “Big Dipper”, and on the bottom were you would pour it out a star was dancing in the sky. All of us watched it for serveral hours.

  • Darrell

    Please read the message below first.
    The next night six of us were getting ready to climb apperation hill, and I looked up at the Big Dipper again. To my amazement the stat was dancing in the sky as the night before, which all six of us watched for awhile. Over the next ten days so many other things happened that I didn’t want to go home. I have been so blessed to have witnessed this.
    Is Medjugoreje real, time will tell. It has changed my life to the better. I now go to mass, and receive communion daily. My job keeps me on the road serveral days a week, and I googe masstimes, and can attend mass where ever I might be.
    I am sixty-three years old, and I could wright a book on how “Mary” has lead me to her “Son”.
    Thanks

  • Mary Schultz

    For those who deride Our Lady by saying that medjugorje is a fake be very careful. For you will have to contend not with man’s wrath but the wrath of God Himself. He has indeed sent His Beloved Mother to call back humanity to Himself through the the Blessed Virgin Mary. Our Lord continues to work these days through His own Mother, Who as a loving Mother wishes Good for Her children. Be very careful that you do not offend the Holy Spirit Who is in the Blessed Virgin Mary, thereby offending God Himself. when you offend Her, you offend Him the Lord our God. These witnesses (visionaries) have all been given the most stringent tests (look them up) if you want proof – look at the miracles of Medjugojre both in the Heavens and in people.These visionaries conduct their lives that is pleasing to God and to His Holy mother – because they listened and are doing exactly as She is asking Her children to do. Many Bishops and Priests testify to the authenticity of Our Lady appearing in Medjugojre by witnessing to a change in themselves – 300 of them – look it up. There have been many physical healings and spiritual. If it were not of Heaven it would have collapsed many years ago. Who are you to say how long God is permitted to send His Mother to His children? I am one of those children- I was a lapsed catholic – a lukwarm one.Now I am the opposite. Her words are Life for those who wish to take them to heart, they lead to Eternal Life- Her Son. Now I am completely changed – praying always loving to pray, going to Holy Mass every day – Holy adoration, praying the rosary – fasting as She is asking us to do ( for it helps us see clearly how weak we are and how sinful – you should try it) Instead of of judging at least keep quiet – and do not offend God Himself. Did you really expect God to forget His children and let them be ensnared by satan, did you really expect His Holy Mother to not do anything. If you are a parent what do you do when your child is heading down the wrong path , do you just sit there and say ok that’s fine, or do you guide that child on the way that leads to good. Look around at how evil the world is – a good mother will keep encouraging her children to do good to end well with them – we have been sent the most Perfect mother anyone could wish for and you dare say that the Apparitions are false! Again be careful, better not to judge that to judge Heaven!


CLOSE | X

HIDE | X