People are asking what I think about Amazon throwing some $$$ at gay “marriage”

I haven’t had time to think about it much.  I reckon buying from them is a matter of “remote material cooperation” with evil, so if there are proportional reasons to do business with them that outweigh the evil they are doing, I reckon it’s okay to do business with them. That’s my quick and dirty answer, based on Ratzinger’s 2004 letter.

  • Chris

    gay marriage=evil?
    I doubt it.

    Protecting child molesters in the church=evil!
    and
    Ratzinger=guilty.

    • Andy, Bad Person

      Wow. First comment to the sex abuse crisis. A new record!

    • Chris M

      “gay marriage=evil?
      I doubt it.”

      -Your doubt?=irrelevant

      “Protecting child molesters in the church=evil!”

      -agreed. I’m sure everyone here would agree as well. Your point?

      “and
      Ratzinger=guilty”

      -your proof?=zero
      your logic=questionable
      your posting style=obnoxious

      • enness

        You’re my hero. :)

    • http://gloriaromanorum.blogspot.com Florentius

      Good heavens. When I see trolling comments like this, I think of Godwin’s Law which refers to those who immediately compare every situation to Nazi Germany no matter how irrelevant. Perhaps we can invoke “Shea’s Law” when someone brings up the sex abuse crisis completely out of context like this.

      BTW, I wonder if the bonehead who posted this realizes that almost 90% of the sex abuse cases were homosexual in nature and that the priests and bishops who were most guilty were also those most guilty of furthering the homosexual agenda within the Catholic Church?

      • Andy, Bad Person

        Perhaps we can invoke “Shea’s Law” when someone brings up the sex abuse crisis completely out of context like this.

        It’s already been coined “Anderson’s Corollary to Godwin’s Law.”

    • Ted Seeber

      Cardinal Law, aka Anderson’s Corollary to Godwin’s Law, and you broke it, so I’m free to offer my standard answers from the bottom up:
      Cardinal Ratzinger, when he was Cardinal Ratzinger, did more than any other person in the world in the late 1980s and early 1990s to try to head off the sex scandals, of course, by that time he was too late and they had mostly already occurred. Even today, the Catholic Church is way ahead of just about everybody on this issue- I don’t see public schools doing background checks on every parent dropping their kid off at a bus stop, but the Catholic Church does this with *every* individual that has contact with children for any reason.

      Secondly gay marriage is a scientific non-starter. There is no way you can EVER have homosexual love equal to the biological effects of heterosexual love, and that’s what we mean by marriage. I’m sorry, the universe itself is against you on this one, not the Catholic Church.

  • http://321force.blogspot.com Barbara

    Lying is evil. There isn’t a marriage if both parties are the same sex. Gay marriage is a lie.

    I haven’t weighed in on this before because I hate to engage in such an emotional topic via the internet, but honestly, where do we stop with the redefining of everything? I would no more tell
    A stranger who he can have a relationship with than I would tell a mother what to name her baby. But a relationship that is committed does not a marriage make.

  • http://davidgriffey.blogspot.com/ Dave G.

    I don’t know. Given the general atmosphere of our culture today, I think if we were to unpack things on a corporate level, there wouldn’t be many places we could go. Think about it. What Hollywood studio doesn’t advocate a host of things that are against Church teaching? Apart from Chik Fil A and Hobby Lobby, any major corporations that don’t? Domino’s pizza maybe. But when you are in Rome, do you avoid anything touched by the emperor? Can you? I’m wondering how that would play out if we applied it to everything.

    • Andy

      Dave
      I would agree with you wholeheartedly, I cannot think of a corporation that is not involved at some level with actions/movements/beliefs/whatever that the church could support. I go to a”store” to purchase what my family needs – I think that Mark is right this is “remote material cooperation” and at least where I live it may be unavoidable.

    • enness

      What I want to know is at what point we really, seriously step up and start providing alternatives, instead of kvetching about how we can’t shop anywhere (I don’t mean you). In the meantime, while sacrifices are good and necessary, I don’t think many people — although I hesitate to say nobody, because there’s always somebody — want you to create a hardship for yourself and family that’s out of proportion.

      • Ted Seeber

        My alternative- skip the middle man whenever possible and shop with the original creators of the good. Especially if they are local. Means more running around, but it also means I have an opportunity to discuss where our dollars are going in the supply chain.

      • Andy

        I guess I was referring to items such as gas for the vehicle, some clothes, things of that nature. For food we have a very active localvore movement and for the most part we can avoid the middle-man. We have an active mechanics exchange movement as well – in fact the exchange just picked up my daughters car as it wouldn’t start – cost for the pick up was $15.00.
        I think that we all can start localvore/exchange ideas and leave out the middleman. It takes faith in each other as people and as neighbors as well as a willingness to share skills and gifts.

      • http://davidgriffey.blogspot.com/ Dave G.

        :) No problem, I think about it myself. I also wonder how it works that my money goes to support folks who turn around and use my money against the Church, my faith, my values. It’s tough. And like you say, sometimes working at better alternatives. Like Ted said, maybe going back to those who create in the first place.

  • http://www.vox-nova.com Brett Salkeld

    I almost never buy from Amazon. As an author, I learned how Amazon has small Catholic publishers over the barrel (by Amazon standards all CAtholic publishers are small, btw). They have to sell to Amazon almost below cost so that books published on Amazon make almost no money for authors and publishers unless you are a mega best-seller. (But you have to do it, because if you’re not on Amazon you’re nothing.) I always buy through a publisher’s website when I cannot get something at my local bookstore. When that fails, I go to Abebooks. Much of the stuff there one can buy through Better World Books which supports literacy programs with its sales of second hand books.

    • http://www.decentfilms.com SDG

      I have to admit I usually buy Amazon, just because they have the service down and I like to get books & movies in two days with free shipping (we have premium shipping privileges through a friend’s premium membership).

    • enness

      I know exactly how you feel. CDs are sold at a 55% discount from list price, and you have to pay to ship it to them…and instead of keeping a full box, noooo, they can ask you to send them one at a time if they like. It’s funny, with some of these companies I find I already had reasons to dislike them.

    • David

      Interesting. I am kind of surprised, because even self-publishing through my own company, printed by Createspace, gives me roughly $3 per book on Amazon.com (priced at 9.99). Kindle gives me around $6.00/per book. Of course this is a more modern, streamlined, model than the traditional “print thousands up front” model, which could be more costly. Either way, I find Amazon to be very very cool regarding giving smaller publishers (yes I know some would dispute calling my company that, but oh well) and authors a chance. As a Christmas present, I compiled my grandma’s poems and writings into a book, and she never would have made the $300 or gotten copies to her friends if it weren’t for being printed with an Amazon owned company, and distributed by Amazon.

  • Brian

    For what it is worth, unless there’s another source, what I’m reading is that Amazon’s CEO and founder, Jeff Bezos, is giving $2.5 million of his own money to the political fight for gay marriage. So, to my mind, that puts another step in the ladder of remoteness in terms of material cooperation.

    • http://www.decentfilms.com SDG

      Brian is correct. Bezos’ personal support of same-sex marriage is more like the founder of Chik-fil-A personally supporting traditional marriage than companies with actual corporate policies of supporting one side or the other.

    • Arnold

      As one who used to live in Seattle, I have noticed that the mega rich folks and companies promoting gay “marriage” seem to be concentrated there: Starbucks, Jeff Bezos, Bill Gates, Steve Ballmer, the Microsoft CEO. I know that there donations are in response to the upcoming vote on same sex “marriage” in WA state but it also demonstrates how lopsidedly wealthy the city’s liberal elite is. I hope the referendum folks have the means to get this passed.

  • Jared B.

    What 2004 Letter from Cardinal Ratzinger? Anybody have a link? That’d be helpful.

    • enness

      Don’t have the link on me, but I think Jimmy Akin hs covered it, hasn’t he?

      • Jared B.

        Got a link to *that* then? ;-) If we’re talking 2004, that’s pretty deep in the archives in the blogging world eh. I tried poking around vatican.va for something Ratzinger wrote in ’04, but it’s not the most searchable site, and far from everything of importance even goes up on the Vatican website.

        • enness

          Sorry, I meant I didn’t have a link at all. But it was much more recently than 8 years ago. I’ll post it if I find it…I have way too many links. It’s beginning to defeat the purpose of the “favorites” button.

    • Ted Seeber

      http://www.priestsforlife.org/magisterium/bishops/04-07ratzingerommunion.htm

      Anyway, I think this is the only one from 2004 from Ratzinger

  • Mercury

    What would be a proportionate reason then? I mostly buy books for entertainment and for learning about stuff I am interested in. Amazon allows me to browse, and also, more often than not, I end up buying books from individual sellers and not from Amazon itself. Still, are my reasons good enough?

    Also, if you go to Barnes and Noble, or to any bookseller, they are always involved in selling pornography. Does that mean we can’t shop there, either?

  • Timothy of Seattle

    It’s worth noting that Jeff Bezos made a personal donation out of his own money; it wasn’t done on behalf of the company or with company funds.

    • kenneth

      It’s also worth noting that $2.5 million is couch-cushion money to Bezos. In relative terms to his net worth, it is literally the equivalent of most of us donating one or perhaps two days of morning latte money. It was also brilliant marketing. For a pittance, Bezos in one afternoon branded Amazon as THE progressive and tolerant company. The good guys. That $2.5 million probably returned at 10:1 the first week and will probably leverage billions going forward. Bezos branded progressivism for Amazon in a way that the Democratic Party has not been able to do for itself for 30 years or more. In real life business practices, Amazon is about as progressive or soft and cuddly as Standard Oil or the Pinkertons of old, but for latte money, they trademarked progressivism. It’s that kind of thinking that makes some guys billionaires and the rest of us schmos who think we have real power because we’re willing to go to war over discount books or chicken sandwiches.


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