A Fairly Typical Encounter with a Member of the Urine and Vinegar Wing

I keep being told these people are a tiny minority in real life.  I have no reason to doubt it since I almost never meet them in my parish, just as I–living in the least-Churched city in America never meet militant atheists in real life either.  Something about face to face encounter almost always guarantees that socially unskilled people just don’t act out their social and emotional cluelessness–until they get on line and are no longer hindered by normal human interactions and are encouraged to behave like Dwight Schrute by their fellow socially unskilled dogmatists writing from their mom’s basements.  When that happens, you suddenly find that a group who constitute a tiny, sullen percentage of people in real life suddenly dominate conversations in great excess of their numbers and suck all the oxygen out of the room with their anger, paranoia and supremely un-self-aware tantrums.  And so we find that bitter SuperTrads (what one sane and healthy Traditionalist calls the “Urine and Vinegar Wing”) occupy a vastly bigger amount of time and space on the Internet than they do in real life since normal Trads are busy with, you know, Life and Happiness and Being Normal while these guys continue to cling to rage about their obsessions.  One such guy was busy in my comboxes last week, repeating variations of stuff I have had flung at me a thousand time in cyberspace.  To wit, one Hereticorum Interfector favors me with the following:

“P. FRANCISCVS ECCLESIAE VASTATOR”

OWN IT.

Say what you want, Mark, but Francis is no friend to orthodoxy, let alone so-called “traditionalists”.  The Roman Catholic Church is in ruin.  Francis’ “kumbaya” approach isn’t going to repair it, either.  We need to return to the days of leveling anathemas and calling for crusades.  We need real men in the papacy, not this weak liberal.  Francis makes JPII look like John Wayne.

and adds:

You can thank Vatican II for “clown” Masses along with every other conceivable variation.  This would have been unheard of prior to the oft lauded V2 debacle.  I’m not a sedevacantist, by the way, although I do sympathize with them.  I just hate the Novus Ordo with every fiber of my being but I doubt we’ll ever see the end of it, unfortunately.  I think it’s here until Jesus returns and exacts His vengeance on ever “Mess” that’s ever been “celebrated” in His name that have turned many, many Catholics away and possibly to their eternal damnation.  The Novus Ordo is WORTHLESS.

So I reply:

This is why I have a hard time buying when people tell me that the Urine and Vinegar crowd “love the Mass”.  No they don’t.  Like you, they frequently express their hatred and blasphemy for the Mass.  What they love is a particular aesthetic.  And they love it more than Jesus Christ himself, fully present in the Eucharist at the OF.  They also frequently express, as you do, their intense hatred of most of the Church and of the Holy Father.  HI, it is you and those who talk like you who are the greatest enemies of the EF in the world.  And you seem to have absolutely no awareness of the deep evil you advocate.  Repent.

And he responds:

OK, Mark, I’ll take my vitriol down several notches here.  Firstly, I don’t pretend to represent the “Urine and Vinegar” crowd, by which I presume you mean those with an affinity to the EF of the Mass.  Secondly, are you suggesting that I should just suck it up when I happen to attend a Mass where all sorts of illicit acts are performed?  I argue that the real blasphemy takes place is most Catholic churches each Sunday.  Why you refuse to admit this baffles me.  Instead, men like you just want us to “offer it up”.  I’m sorry, Mark, but that’s not in my character.  I stayed away from Christianity for years because of the way in which most Christians around me treated Jesus, i.e., like their fishing buddy.  When I found the Catholic Church I *thought* I’d finally found a place where the faith was taken seriously but it appears that since V2 the Church has went he other direction, apparently in a futile attempt to make itself more appealing and more relevant.  What you’ve actually, done, however, is stripped it from any substance – aside from the Eucharist itself, of course – but when you see most people not genuflecting, making the sign of the cross, chewing gum, dressed in shorts or short skirts, etc., then what has it gained you?  Nothing.  The RCC in the west is a real joke and human beings are to blame for that.  It infuriates me precisely because I DO love Jesus and it angers me that others show so little respect for Him.  We only give him an hour a week and this is how we treat Him?  Sorry, I’m calling it out and shining a light on it.  It’s wicked.  Get your head out of the sand, Mark.  It’s not all rainbows and unicorns in the Catholic Church and no matter how you try and sell that view, there are many of us who know better.

My response:

OK, Mark, I’ll take my vitriol down several notches here.

Given what follows, you continue to demonstrate spectacular unselfawareness.

Firstly, I don’t pretend to represent the “Urine and Vinegar” crowd, by which I presume you mean those with an affinity to the EF of the Mass.

You needn’t pretend, you do represent them.  And no, it is not those with an affinity to the EF, but those who speak with hatred and contempt for the OF, for all those in the Church who do not share their aesthetic obsessions, and (lately) for Francis, for JPII, and for the Council.  Stuff like what you write is an embarrassment to sane and healthy lovers of the EF.

Secondly, are you suggesting that I should just suck it up when I happen to attend a Mass where all sorts of illicit acts are performed?

No.  I’m suggesting you should stop blaspheming the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.

I argue that the real blasphemy takes place is most Catholic churches each Sunday.

Correct. You do argue that, even though you canot possibly know it is true.  As I say, you casually blaspheme the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass and express your deep hatred for most of the Church.

Why you refuse to admit this baffles me.

I admit that you blaspheme Holy Mass in your addiction to anger and hatred of the Church.  I do not admit that a Mass approved by Holy Mother Church is “worthless” or blasphemous. That’s because I go to an OF Mass that is reverently celebrated and have done so all over the country and do not regard it as “worthless” as you blasphemously do.

Instead, men like you just want us to “offer it up”.

No.  Men like me are grateful for the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.

I’m sorry, Mark, but that’s not in my character.

That much is obvious.  What is, alas, in your character (which the grace of the Holy Spirit can alter and redeem) is deep hatred for the Church and idolatry of the sin of anger.  Repent.

I stayed away from Christianity for years because of the way in which most Christians around me treated Jesus, i.e., like their fishing buddy. When I found the Catholic Church I *thought* I’d finally found a place where the faith was taken seriously but it appears that since V2 the Church has went he other direction, apparently in a futile attempt to make itself more appealing and more relevant. What you’ve actually, done, however, is stripped it from any substance – aside from the Eucharist itself, of course – but when you see most people not genuflecting, making the sign of the cross, chewing gum, dressed in shorts or short skirts, etc., then what has it gained you? Nothing. The RCC in the west is a real joke and human beings are to blame for that. It infuriates me precisely because I DO love Jesus and it angers me that others show so little respect for Him.

No.  You don’t love Jesus.  You love a particular aesthetic, a particular moral theory, and above all, you love indulging the sin of anger.  If you loved Jesus, you would love the People of God.  That’s not me.  That St. John: “If any one says, ‘I love God,’ and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love God whom he has not seen.”

We only give him an hour a week and this is how we treat Him? Sorry, I’m calling it out and shining a light on it. It’s wicked. Get your head out of the sand, Mark. It’s not all rainbows and unicorns in the Catholic Church and no matter how you try and sell that view, there are many of us who know better.

Thanks for that news flash that all is not well with the Church.  I never would have known that (after ten years of reporting about the Scandal and very other Catholic lunacies) without your emotionally incontinent fits of rage.  Here, read this:

http://www.crisismagazine.com/2011/there-aint-no-pure-church

Here’s reality: You don’t love Jesus.  You love your sense of prideful superiority to the average Catholic. You love anger, rage, and disgust.  They are working like drugs in your system, like crystal meth robbing you of the appetite for healthy food and stealing your soul. Your anger will destroy you if you do not address it and take it to confession–preferably with a priest you cannot stand and have judged to be “too liberal”.  How *dare* you speak of Holy Church with such contempt.  Who died and made you the judge of the People of God?

God is ready and willing to forgive and help you.  But you have to face facts about your sin here.  It will kill you.

PS. In other news, the Anti-Francis Urine and Vinegar Ground Zero: Rorate Caeli, has been relying on a Holocaust denier for all their “inside info.”

“So that’s, you know, coming along.” – Dr. Horrible

PPS. The crazy Jew-hating wing of the UV Trads is out in force. “Maurice Pinay” shows up in my boxes to mutter darkly about the “true enemies” of the Church, while over at Dawn Eden’s blog, the splitters of hairs and the rationalizers of Jew hatred turn up to offer such insights as, “Eden is not even able to make the distinction between belittlement and denying of the holocaust.” Belittlement of the murder of six million Jews is, you see, waaaaaaay different than denial of that act of mass murder. Dawn Eden, a convert from a Jewish background is clearly hypersensitive.

UV Trads are unparalleled in their ability to neglect the use of mirrors. They live in a fantasy world where Jooooooos and Masons and modernists and neo-Catholics combine in vast and shadowy conspiracies to discredit and destroy them. It never seems to dawn on them that nobody on earth does more to discredit and destroy UV Traditionalism than they themselves. And as they do it, they inflict incalculable harm on sane and healthy Traditionalists and on Holy Mother Church, not to mention on souls less sturdy than Dawn Eden’s, who is mature enough to know that sentiments like this are, as the blessed and holy Second Vatican Council teaches us, “foreign to the mind of Christ.” May God solemnly rebuke this Jew-hating filth.

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