Conservative Christians in the Military Are Going to Increasingly Find Themselves in a Bind

…as will a country dependent on the self-sacrificial honor of such men and women when the anti-Christian radicals in our Ruling Class begin their Long March through the military in a systematic anti-Christian pogrom.  If you are looking for the sorts of people our Ruling Classes are beginning to consult in order to “deal” with the “problem” of believers in the ranks, look no further than this dispassionate and objective Mikey Weinstein, who writes things like:

If these fundamentalist Christian monsters of human degradation … and tyranny cannot broker or barter your acceptance of their putrid theology, then they crave for your universal silence in the face of their rapacious reign of theocratic terror. Indeed, they ceaselessly lust, ache, and pine for you to do absolutely nothing to thwart their oppression. Comply, my friends, and you become as monstrously savage as are they. I beg you, do not feed these hideous monsters with your stoic lethargy, callousness and neutrality. Do not lubricate the path of their racism, bigotry, and prejudice. Doing so directly threatens the national security of our beautiful nation.

and who…

cites Dr. James Dobson—the famous Christian founder of Focus on the Family—as “illustrating the extremist, militant nature of these virulently homophobic organizations’ rhetorically-charged propaganda.” Regarding those who teach orthodox Christian beliefs from the Bible, Weinstein concludes, “Let’s call these ignoble actions what they are: the senseless and cowardly squallings of human monsters.”

Let’s be clear.  As a Catholic, I’m not super-keen on Evangelicals subtly pulling rank on subordinates to pressure them into going to an Evangelical Bible Study.  And I’m sure non-Christian troops can find their believer fellow troops irritating at times.  But in Grown-up World, there are ways of dealing with such annoyances without declaring all Christians who share their faith ”monsters”.  Personally, I find I have much more in common with a believer of any stripe than with guys like Weinstein who would absolutely purge the ranks of some of the most dedicated and self-sacrificial troops for the sake of ideological purity.  If guys like him carry the day (and our Ruling Classes give every indication he will eventually) then the military is going to become an intensely hostile environment in which Christians will no longer, in conscience, be able to function.  And when you have an all-volunteer military, that is a massively stupid approach to recruitment.

Can our Ruling Class really be so stupid?  Oh yes. Yes they can.

  • Dale Price

    And when you have an all-volunteer military, that is a massively stupid approach to recruitment.

    Oh, that problem is easily solved. Just reinstate the draft.

    • http://www.facebook.com/alex.winston.353 Alex Winston

      That’ll never happen.

  • Theodore Seeber

    I am going to tell my son that only homosexuals join the armed forces now. And discourage him from doing so.

    • Newp Ort

      Wouldn’t that be lying to him?

    • http://www.facebook.com/alex.winston.353 Alex Winston

      Because the “homosexuals” protecting you right now are bad?

  • Knower

    Altho I think Focus on the Family produced in the 1990′s some really good and fun videos for kids which my granddaughter and I watched, Dr. James Dobson himself really put me off when I watched a presentation of his on marriage in which, touting the proposition that masturbation was a good thing, he obnoxiously declared flatly that any man who said he had never masturbated was lying.

    • Benjamin

      Wow, James Dobson and I agree on something. Who would have thunk it?

  • Dale Price

    I mean, sure–proselytizing by superiors is something that shouldn’t be tolerated. But expecting the chaplain to keep his godbothering to a lowest common denominator is a cure worse than the disease. And having a guy a half-step from an aneurysm developing your policies…is just…wow.

    • http://www.facebook.com/alex.winston.353 Alex Winston

      Get rid of the chaplain…get rid of the problem. Are imams available? Buddhist monks? Shintoists? If not, let each soldier seek out his own holy man on his own time and dime.

  • Kenneth

    I think Weinstein is just a little too fond of composing rhetoric with Wagnerian epic crescendos. He has an underlying point and he’s done some good work to rectify serious problems of bullying and abuse of rank to advance proselytizing in the military. There have been some good, concrete changes in policy and culture at some bases which had the worst problems, partly as a result of Weinstein’s work. The change in this culture, and in the elimination of DADT, has not and will not make the military hostile for Christians. It will only be hostile to those few unprofessional twits who can’t respect regs or the Constitution or anyone around them. If those folks are deterred from ever darkening the door of recruiting offices, so much the better.

    • Dale Price

      A bit of apologetics worthy of Walter Duranty.

    • Mark Shea

      The issue is not that Weinstein is a demagogue. It’s that he’s being treated as a serious advisor on policy by Feds. I don’t expect David Duke to be anything but an asshole. But I do expect responsible people not to treat him as though he should be consulted on policy.

      • Kenneth

        Weinstein has serious creds on the issue. The military would be fools not to consult him. He’s got a decade of advocacy and expertise on the issues of religious freedom and tolerance within the military, and he has a lifelong knowledge base of life in the military and the unique vulnerabilities that service men and women have within a chain of command. He was an honor graduate of the Air Force Academy, and something like six or seven family members have attended, including his own kid. He spent a decade in the service as a JAG lawyer and some time as a White House counsel in the Reagan years.

        He is not a liberal in the normal sense of the word, nor is he pushing for atheism. Most of those he’s gone to bat for have been Jews and Christians who have been the victims of bullying by some folks in the Evangelical community who felt free to abuse their ranks. The problem was never their beliefs, it was their hate-group tactics and unprofessionalism.

        He plays the demagogue role to get noticed, as issue advocates must do, but he’s done serious work on the ground with this issue, and not all of it is catigating the military or suing them. He’s worked with command to help them understand what the problem is and what a proper climate of tolerance and equal treatment look like in the real world of the military. He’s also known to give credit where it is due. The military, at least in this instance, understands that the point of consulting someone is to be told what you need to hear to move forward, not what you want to hear.

  • Mark S. (not for Shea)

    I read a story years ago that may very well be apocryphal. It said that in the months following the end of WW II, a Japanese officer asked MacArthur, “Why has an American General never seized power?” To which MacArthur replied, “Because the nearest corporal would shoot him.”

    Do we still instill soldiers with that sense of honor and duty?

    • Timbot2000

      Short answer; No. Those days of old republican virtue in the ranks are long gone. I think this good quote from a bad movie sums up the attitude of the ruling class towards any product of flyover country that would harbor such mawkish scruples:
      “You’re a good man, Proculus, and therefore a bad Roman”

    • Dale Price

      Only to the extent we instill such virtues in the broader population. At the end of the day, the virtuousness of any military is correlated to that of the society at large.

      I think a certain degree of worry is in order.

      • Timbot2000

        Dale,
        With all due respect, who is this “we” you speak of kemosabe? I assume you instill these virtues in your children, as do I. It would seem therefore, that you and I, that is us, do not belong to this “we”, or perhaps it does not belong to us…..

        • Dale Price

          It’s the national “we.” :)

          More seriously, I definitely try to instill such values, along with patriotism and a respect for legitimate authority. Unfortunately, since we (you and I) swim in the same national water, what affects “them” affects us, and it inevitably becomes our problem, too.

  • http://pavelspoetry.com Pavel Chichikov

    How does one attend to spiritual needs without proselytizing?

    Have faith in what?

  • Bryan

    When I left active duty in 2004, it seemed clear to me that any Christian who actually believes what is written in the Bible could not remain in the US military, whether they were being actively persecuted or not. The US Military–as an institution–is Not an Instrument of Good.

    Whether it ever was anything else or not, I couldn’t say. When I was inducted at MEPS before shipping off to boot camp, I shed a tear because I was so proud to be the first one in my family to serve my country. Four years later….what a load of naïve garbage. It’s just another amoral gang. No honor and no accountability whatsoever at the institutional level.

    I have nothing but respect and loyalty for the soldiers, sailors and airmen like myself who served and are serving right now. But they will be used and thrown away like so much garbage by Uncle Sam (Uncle Samael? I wish I had studied angelology BEFORE I signed up) when their usefulness is over. I know that first-hand and from extensive personal observation.

  • http://creativefidelity.wordpress.com Dan F.

    eh, I find Mickey Weinstein a over the top at times but a majority of the complaints he helps with come from Jews and Catholics who are being discriminated against for practicing their faith so I’d be careful about jumping onto the Brietbart/Conservative media campaign against him. It’s one thing to be sincere about promoting your own beliefs, it’s another thing entirely to structure fundamentalist Evangelicalism into the operation of your unit/division/etc.

    His Op-Ed was over the top but this particular issue isn’t as black and white as some would have it.

    • Dale Price

      Not every issue advocate needs to run a screed like that. I can think of one very, very effective high profile disability advocate who works very effectively without it. Such rhetorical choices damage his credibility. If he’s as good as you say, he committed an own goal and hurt those he’s trying to help.

  • http://pavelspoetry.com Pavel Chichikov

    From an email I just received:

    “How can we contain such joyful longing. How can anyone live without
    the Truth. It would all be worthless.”

  • Mike

    That guy sounds like he needs therapy.

  • Kirt Higdon

    I think Christians of any variety should avoid service in the US imperial armed forces. The armed forces are a hot bed of feminism, sodomy, and sexual assault and hence a proximate occasion of mortal sin for very many if not most service members. Furthermore, the armed forces routinedly engage in unjust wars to spread “our values” (“democracy, whiskey, sexy”) to the rest of the world. In theory, the armed forces would be used for national defense but in practice they are used for brutal aggression. There’s plenty of opportunity to follow the example of Bl. Franz Jaeggerstatter without risking the beheading, not to mention avoiding risk to soul, life and limb.

  • BobRN

    It matters not what good Mr. Weinstein has done, nor how prestigious his career – just substitute “African Americans,” “Jews,” or “Gays” for “fundamentalist Christians’” in his rant and he would be rightly exiled to the outer regions of obscurity, never to be considered seriously again as consultant on any matter whatsoever by the military, the executive branch, or Mom’s Corner Bakery.
    There is no room for this sort of vitrole by those advising the military on any matter, much less on religious tolerance, whether the target be Christians, Muslims, Jews, blacks, gays, or anyone. That this rant is tolerated by the elites because it targets Christians certainly does make one think twice about the wisdom of a military career for the devout of any Christian tradition.

    • http://www.facebook.com/alex.winston.353 Alex Winston

      If you are a devout Christian you wouldn’t be out murdering people. Christian…Christ…remember him? How many did he say it was okay to murder? Hurt? Maim? Chapter and verse of endorsement of war by Jesus.

  • Newp Ort

    Mark these comments are like a mirror image of many of your own.

    • Newp Ort

      And Breitbart is your linked article? One day call out the neo-fascist sycophants, a few later they’re a trusted source?

      • Mark Shea

        I know that the genetic fallacy is a beloved thing for American politics, but the fact is the quote does not orignate with Breitbart.

  • kmk

    So if our adult children want to join the military, do we encourage it under any conditions? (Not that we can stop themif they are determined….)

    Thanks for your opinions–

    kmk

    • Rosemarie

      +J.M.J+

      My husband was in the Navy when we married. Based just on what I saw and heard as a “Navy wife,” I would never encourage my kids to join (if they were neurotypical). In fact I would actively discourage it. The sheer immorality was bad enough twenty years ago, from what I gather it’s much worse now.

      • http://www.facebook.com/alex.winston.353 Alex Winston

        You mean people that will go kill strangers, women and children when commanded by other strangers are immoral? What a shock!

  • Roderick

    Considering that believers might be the last refuge of resistance to the Empire’s bloody perpetual war, it makes perfect sense that they would want to purge them from our all-volunteer military.

    • http://www.facebook.com/alex.winston.353 Alex Winston

      What? That doesn’t make any sense. More have been killed in the name of religion than from any other source.

      • Nemesis

        No, more have been killed in the name of government than from any other source. Study history much?

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1001288222 Julie Beam

    From what I have read so far about him, he isn’t talking about mainstream Christians…he is talking about very extreme ones that hate and blame the Jews for Jesus’ death and are literally forcing their views on others. I didn’t know there were that many out there with this extremest type of views. I am just learning about him so maybe I am wrong here…so far just read one interview done by a Jewish magazine with him. He said in this 08 interview his best friend and his wife are both Christians. I would just suggest doing a little more research as I am, to find out exactly what he is talking about and get the whole story first before passing judgment.

    • chezami

      James Dobson is not an extremist and, like most Evangelicals, is about as philo-semitic as they come.

      • http://www.facebook.com/alex.winston.353 Alex Winston

        Yes, he is an extremist.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Joe-Goldstein/100002880305845 Joe Goldstein

    It’s pay-back time !!

  • Rosemarie

    +J.M.J+

    What will happen next should be obvious. A gay or non-Christian person in the military will “bait” a chaplain or Christian comrade into discussing Jesus or religion or morality, then cry about being “proselytized” and before you can say “set up” – a court martial, natch. Great way to purge the ranks of “undesirables.”

    • http://www.facebook.com/alex.winston.353 Alex Winston

      Paranoid much?

      • Rosemarie

        +J.M.J+

        Nope, just a realist. That kind of thing has happened before.

        • http://www.facebook.com/alex.winston.353 Alex Winston

          You can possibly come up with one example? You are paranoid and delusional and quite likely not very bright. Take off your tin foil hat and get an education.

          • Rosemarie

            +J.M.J+

            Your ad hominem attacks on me do not change the fact that this counselor was targeted by a gay activist with an agenda, who misled her and used it against her to get her into trouble. There is no reason why this kind of thing couldn’t happen anywhere else, including the US military.

            One example isn’t enough for you? Okay, then there’s a case of the chaplain at George Washington University’s Newman Center who is being targeted by gay activists there for stating the Catholic Church’s teaching about homosexuality:

            http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/apr/7/two-gay-gwu-students-want-priest-removed-campus/

            Though not exactly the same situation, it is an example of activists trying to get a member of the clergy penalized for his views on homosexuality. Again, something similar could easily happen in the military.

            As for my education, I graduated magna cum laude from college, so stop assuming things about people you don’t know. It just makes you look foolish.

            • Rosemarie

              +J.M.J+

              Oh, and I didn’t just “come up” with these examples to support a baseless, paranoid delusion. I knew about them before I wrote my first comment above. That’s exactly what I was thinking about while I typed it. Like I said, I’m a realist; I observe what has happened in the past and use that to deduce what may happen in the future.

              So far, the facts are on my side. Some gay activists have been known to target and attempt to ruin their ideological opponents in real life. Now, please explain why no gay activist would ever do something like that again, particularly in the military. So far all you’ve done is hurl personal insults at me. You’ll have to to better than that to argue your side.

              • http://www.facebook.com/alex.winston.353 Alex Winston

                Christians aren’t being persecuted. You are delusional. They weren’t insults, based on your posts they are facts. Christians have bullied and murdered for centuries. Quite ironic that now you are worried about it happening to you. BTW…Sexual orientation is not a choice. Religion and ignorance are lifestyle choices that can be changed. Insane beliefs don’t get to dictate the laws of society.

                • chezami

                  And you’re gone. Goodbye. Don’t need no bigots.

                • Rosemarie

                  +J.M.J+

                  Yep, just more personal attacks. Oh well.