Spirit Daily Has Always Struck Me as Written by and For Basically Good People…

…who have a, for the most part, honest and simple faith in the signs ‘n wonders aspect of the faith. I have a healthy regard for people who take such things seriously and I think such folk piety has always had and will always have a place in the Church. At the same time, like everything else human, such an impulse requires the guidance of the Church or it can (and has) fractaled off into crazytown antics, nutty beliefs and (not infrequently) dangerous heresies and cults. Belief in private revelation is best dealt with by taking it seriouly and holding it lightly. The absolute worst way to handle claims of private revelation is to chase after them or, worse, use them as a substitute for learning the Church’s teaching or maturing into an adult Catholic who is formed by the creed, sacraments, commandments, beatitudes, and prayers of the Church in union with the Magisterium.

Now one of the things Spirit Daily and its considerable readership have chased after for far too long is the fraud that is Medjugorje–a fraud that will *never ever ever* be approved by the Church. Recently, the CDF not only reiterated that there can be no church-sponsored pilgrimages, but they also made clear that the fraudulent dog and pony shows done by fake Medj seers should not be allowed in US Churches. The point is pretty clear: Stop talking about this junk as though it’s a real apparition. Spirit Daily, to its credit, links a at least one post saying “Pray and obey” and is not, like some Medjugorje supporters, fomenting rebellion or paranoid conspiracy theories about the matter. However, one does have to ask, if the spirit of Rome’s instruction is “Stop talking about this stuff like it’s a real apparition” then why are these links still prominently featured on the Spirit Daily page?

Medjugorje Live
Medjugorje Message
Medjugorje News
Medjugorje (Official)
Medjugorje Productions
Medjugorje Sites
Medjugorje Spirit
Medjugorje Today

It is, after all, no secret that Spirit Daily has talked for years as though this fraud is the real deal. If they want to stop giving that impression, per the CDF instruction, then they should stop disseminating this junk from sites that habitually talk as though this fraud is genuine.

The Medjugorje Fraud is not–absolutely not–going to end well. I know of at least one priest who has lived and served in Medjugorje for years who is now convinced that it is not merely a human fraud, but a demonic one. In this view, he is not very far from not one, but two bishops of the diocese where this fraud has been perpetrated:

The majority of the pious public has naively fallen victim of the great propaganda. These people themselves have become the greatest propaganda for the events. They do not even stop to think that the truth has been hidden by deliberate falsehoods. – Msgr. Pavao Žanić, former bishop of Mostar

The numerous absurd messages, lies, falsehoods and disobedience associated from the beginning with the events and “apparitions” of Medjugorje, all refute every claim of authenticity. – Msgr. Ratko Perić, present bishop of Mostar

And these guys are backed up–19-0–by the vote of their entire episcopal conference. You can read the whole appalling history here.

The CDF’s latest move, clamping down on Ivan Dragicevic’s and various other fake “seer” traveling roadshows (which has helped him pay off his $800,000 home in a single year), is the shape of things to come. Despite the True Believers’ delusional telling of the tale, the reality is not that Rome “took it out of the hands of the local bishops” because a righteous Son of Peter is just about to school these unbelieving bishops in True Marian Piety. Rather, the reality is that the local ordinaries handed the case to Rome in the sure and certain confidence that Rome will agree with them and will tell the True Believers that this is indeed what the bishops above call it: lies and deliberate falsehoods.

Related in the ensuing article, the sixteenth-century case of Magdalena of the Cross is essential reading for those who argue that even Satanic inspiration could not keep the fraud alive for so long. At least one of the “seers” or their extended family would have broken ranks and spilled the beans, they say. Yet even without a preternatural element, with so much money at stake, both personally and corporately, it would take a brave person to fess up to such an epochal deception tied to myriad vested interests. Fr Philip Pavich, an American Franciscan who worked for eleven years in Israel before securing a transfer to Bosnia to be close to Medjugorje, is in no doubt about this powerful motivation to maintain the Big Lie.

“I believed the apparitions when I came. If anybody wanted it to be true, I did,” he once told writer Bill Sammon. Watching people go partially blind by staring at the “miracle of the sun” and observing “professional visionaries” who are “living off the profits” of the booming tourist trade opened his eyes to the truth. “Medjugorje has spawned 400 visionaries in the United States,” said Pavich, “They got ’em in every state. It’s a ridiculous, pandemic situation. It’s totally out of control. I mean, it is a sick visionary world. Canada, the United States, Australia … everybody that has touched Medjugorje has spawned a whole new petri dish of visionaries.”

Pavich grew especially disenchanted with the six original visionaries. “Oh man, they bring home lots of money. People give unbelievably. It’s like a cult. They’re like little cult leaders, little cult characters. And they collect, man, big time. They’ve got second houses; they’ve got perks. They’re professional visionaries who are living off the profits.”

“Some wealthy Croat tour leader will put down 80,000 bucks, build a house for a visionary, and then she’ll sucker her pilgrims into coming by saying ‘When you come you’ll get to stay with a visionary’,” said Pavich, who noted the beauty of the visionaries’ houses. “They’re a scandal to a lot of people because they (the visionaries) are in on the take — big time. … They don’t work, they never work. They just collect money.”

Rome, being typically Roman, seems to be taking their time on this. I have my worthless theories on why this is: romanitas, the fear of scandal when the fraud is finally exposed, worries about the honest faith of simple good people who have been honestly deceived and whose whole faith may come crashing down as a result, frets about money, worries about yet another global church-bashing fest, perhaps they are searching for the best words to tell people who have steeped themselves in a lie for 30 years that they’ve been had, maybe they are concerned about trying to get their ducks in a row in order to outflank the fake “seers” lest they attempt an act of schism when they are finally exposed. But I have no doubts whatsoever about what the commission is ultimately going to find. They are going to reiterate what the local ordinaries said at minimum and, at maximum, they are going to condemn the fraud as a fraud. And my hope is that the Ents of Rome will speak sooner rather than later, since the fraud is now being marketed as a movie. Attentiveness to pop culture, God bless ’em, is not their strong suit.

Sites like Spirit Daily could save themselves an awful lot of trouble and heartache right now if they would exercise some minimal discernment, de-couple from this fraud now and start warning their readers that this is a fraud and is not going to end well. The anti-charism of discernment that has managed to be incredibly wrong so often about so much will not serve True Believers in Medjugorje either.

But Cardinal Schoenborn approves of Medjugorje!

Yes. And Cardinal Schoenborn approved of this Wild West Mass too:

But Fr. Gabriele Amorth says

In the Old Testament God sent prophets to warn of the betrayals of the Jewish people. Now, here, to warn of the betrayal of the Christian people, also the priests, God sends us His Mother! It has been 30 years! Is it possible that people still do not hear? And as for those people who believe themselves to be intelligent by saying they wait until the Church approves? They are fools!”

Yes. And he thereby makes the crowning statement in a long history of crazy, reckless, and irresponsible things that only the most discernment-free Catholic could possibly take seriously.

Every episcopal leader responsible for the care of the flock at Medjugorje has said, at minimum, that there is no evidence Mary is appearing at Medjugorje. The one’s most directely involved have said considerably more, using words like “lies” to characterize the fraud. The CDF has just clamped down on the frauds spreading those lies here in the US. Fr. Amorth’s reckless and foolish demand that we accept the absolute contrary of what the bishops of Mostar say is as worthless a guide as his other ridiculous claims to have performed nine excorcisms a day, 24/7, for nine solid years.

But rosaries have turned to gold!

Yeah? Prove it. I’ve heard that urban legend for years.

But good fruits!

Yep. Where you have the sacraments and good hearts disposed to them, you are going to have good fruits. God can bring good out of the crucifixion after all. But fat lot of good that did Judas. These fake seers are Judases. Don’t buy what they are selling. Don’t get played. This stuff is a fraud.

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Interesting Conversation between Patrick Madrid and Patrick Coffin
It would appear Rome is Leaning Toward Shutting Down the Medjugorje Traveling Road Show
Bishop and Exorcist Andrea Gemma on Medjugorje
Question about Medjugorje
  • Fabio Paolo Barbieri

    Amen. I think it was Michael Jones who pointed out that areas near Medj had been the stage of appalling war/ethnic crimes in the Yugoslav cauldron, and that it was certainly not beyond the bounds of belief that this might have given it a diabolical atmosphere. At any rate, the fact that the “seers” and their handlers are closely tied with the worst kind of Croat nationalists is well known.

    • Croix

      “closely tied with the worst kind of Croat nationalists is well known”?
      Shame on you, Fabio!

      • Fabio Paolo Barbieri

        First blame the Croats who told me. And the journalists who reported it. I am sorry you should find facts shameful – well, perhaps they are.

        • Croix

          Facts? It would be funny if it weren’t so sad.
          Of course, you’re entitled to believe what you want to believe.

          • Fabio Paolo Barbieri

            Are you capable of arguing, or can you only insult those whose views distress you?

  • Amore

    This topic always brings to mind Dean Martin singing That’s Amore:

    When the moon hits your eye like a big pizza pie
    That’s amedjugorje
    When the world seems to shine like you’ve had too much wine
    That’s amedjugorje
    Bells will ring ting-a-ling-a-ling, ting-a-ling-a-ling
    And you’ll sing “Vita bella”
    Hearts will play tippy-tippy-tay, tippy-tippy-tay
    Like a gay tarantella**
    When the stars make you drool just like a pasta fazool
    That’s amedjugorje
    When you dance down the street with a cloud at your feet
    You’re in love
    When you walk down in a dream but you know you’re not
    Dreaming signore
    Scuzza me, but you see, back in old Napoli
    That’s amedjugorje

    **tarantella – Tarantism: a dancing mania or malady of late medieval Europe popularly regarded as being caused by the bite of the European tarantula

  • Mark S. (not for Shea)

    Spirit Daily has always struck me as a Catholic flavored National Enquirer. Do people really take it seriously? I always thought it was kind of an embarrassing if sometimes cute joke.

    • Pavel Chichikov

      I have taken some ofit very seriously.

  • Dave

    Well, I went to Medjugorje in 1990 and my rosary did turn gold. Maybe since you know me a bit, that will have a bit of credibility with you, Mark. As far as whether Medjugorje is authentic, I do not know. I thought it was at the time. It was the proximate cause of my conversion to Catholicism. It was not the sacraments that did it, as I was not yet Catholic. If it is demonic, and it could be, I really question Hell’s tactics, as Medjugorje has been responsible for literally millions of conversions. On the other hand, it certainly does seem to be causing a lot of division, though that can be blamed as much on one side as the other.

    Anyway, I do not think that Spirit Daily is being disobedient. It is still permitted to provisionally believe that Medjugorje is authentic, as long as this does not anticipate the judgment of the Church. If we are not even supposed to talk about unapproved apparitions, I wonder how 70,000 people ended up at Fatima on Oct. 13?

    I also take a lot of what is on Spirit Daily pretty seriously. You are right that our life should not be built around such signs and wonders, but on the other hand, “Surely the Lord God does nothing, without revealing his secret to his servants the prophets.” – Amos 3:7. Michael Brown is as faithful a Catholic as you are, but has a different discernment and focus.

    St. Josaphat, please intercede for unity and respect, not just for the Catholic and Orthodox churches, but internally as well.

    • http://janalynmarie.blogspot.com/ Beadgirl

      Dave, I ask this out of genuine curiosity, but did it turn into real gold? I know some people who went to Medjugorje in the 1990s, too (including my mom), and they showed me their “gold” rosaries. What had happened, though, was the metallic coating of the findings wore off from use, revealing the goldish color of the base metal below; the same thing happens to my jewelry when I use inexpensive findings.

      FWIW, my mom no longer knows what to believe about Medjugorje anymore (and doesn’t spend any time thinking about it) and will respect whatever the Church rules, but she is grateful that it brought her closer to God.

      • Dave

        No, I’m sure it wasn’t real gold, but of course, I never had it examined. 23 years later, most of the gold has faded off, though some is still visible. It was not my chain that turned gold at all, but the actual blue crystal (or maybe plastic) beads of the rosary somehow got a gold coating/sheen over them a short time after returning home from Medjugorje.

        • http://janalynmarie.blogspot.com/ Beadgirl

          Huh, I’ve never heard of the beads changing; when people talked to me about their rosaries turning gold, they usually meant the eyepins.

          • Dave

            You made me curious, so I went and dug out this rosary. It has fallen into many pieces and the only reason I kept it was because it had turned gold. My memory was a bit faulty. The chain had turned gold also, but it’s understandable that the thing that stuck out in my mind was the beads rather than the chain. It seems to have faded even more, but there are still a few beads that are the way it all used to be.

            Here are a couple of pics. One of a bead that still has the gold coating/sheen, and one of some normal beads.

          • Amore

            Just for the record gang, my mom, may she rest in peace, never followed the messages and never went to medj. She was an avid rosary prayer. The chain of one of her rosaries changed from silver to a gold color. Although she noted the color change she never made a big deal about it or brought attention to it. She was probably suspicious more than anything and viewed it as a test, or a warning perhaps, and not necessarily a miracle or blessing. My mom was always a great example to her children.

        • MarylandBill

          Doesn’t it seem strange to you that such an apparently miraculous transformation should only be on the surface and fake gold as well? That seems rather suspicious to me.

          As for your conversion, obviously that is cause for celebration, but I think we must look at it in balance. The Devil is clever, and is playing the long game. He might accept that some are legitimately saved if his acts will cause more to be lost in the long run. Imagine how many could be lost if they split from the Church over this.

          • Dave

            No, it doesn’t really seem strange to me. I am not in the business of telling God what He should do, and I’m not sure why He should be expected to turn the rosary into solid gold beads which I could sell for probably tens of thousands of dollars if Medjugorje was real.

            I am not sure what to make of it myself, but I am glad that this little sign happened. I am also not SURE that it is not real gold, but perhaps strangely, my first reaction was not to go get it scientifically examined, but a simple sense of gratitude.

            • wilhelmina

              The Seers asked our mother about this,if you know all aboutMedj,If they were miracles ,,and our mother replied ,no,they were graces ,our heavenly father gave them,so they might believe,no miracles .

        • chezami

          So, in other words, your Rosary didn’t turn to gold.

          • Dave

            Well, if by “rosary turning to gold”, you were under the impression that this meant some sort of alchemic transformation of the rosary into the element in the periodic table known as “Au”, I don’t think anyone has really ever claimed that.

            • chezami

              Um, lots of people have claimed that. “My Rosary turned to brass” doesn’t really have the same ring.

              • Dave

                Sometimes I feel like I am arguing with atheists in discussions like these. It generally means that the rosary changed colors from silver to gold. Sometimes even the beads change color, as in my case. Maybe it IS just the top layer of metallic coating wearing off, I don’t know, but I’ve had hundreds of rosaries over the years, and the only two that ever turned gold are the two that my wife and I bought in Medjugorje. Lots of people showed me their rosaries which had turned gold after being in Medjugorje, or simply after hearing about Medjugorje in some cases. Obviously, their rosaries normally didn’t turn gold, or they wouldn’t have mentioned it. Does it prove that Medjugorje is true? Of course not. But, why argue that it would be a better sign if they were turned into solid 14 karat gold? That sounds like something an atheist would say. They first deny, then if pressed, minimize or think of alternate ways that God SHOULD have done it in order for it to be a legitimate sign.

                • Matt

                  “Sometimes I feel like I am arguing with atheists in discussions like these.”

                  … that’s probably a good sign. Healthy skepticism towards dubious spiritual phenomenon is the correct approach. Atheists tactics towards discussion aren’t inherently “evil”, if they are using logic and reason. Their questions are often good, if asked in sincerity with an honest search for answers (which is another issue altogether).

                  This issue here is one of logic and facts. If you say the rosary turned to gold, but it in fact did not turn into gold, you are not allowed to say that the rosary turned to gold.

                  Sure it feels nice to say it, but if it’s not ACTUALLY true, don’t say it like it is.

                  I’m sorry that it “sounds like atheism” to apply logic and reason to a conversation, but the honest truth is that a mature Catholic should be more familiar with these basic concepts.

                  I prescribe intensive reading of John C. Wright’s blog to help you fix this :)

                  Also, God is not a God of parlor tricks and cheap miracles. Save those for the deceased Sai Baba.

                  If God changes something in its essence, it’s changed. Not just “covered up”.

                  • Dave

                    I’m a big fan of logic and reason, but I don’t think that’s what is happening here…when victory is claimed because I admitted that rosaries (probably) aren’t turning to the ELEMENT gold. Since no one ever claimed they were turning to the element gold, just that they changed to the color gold, this seems to me like a semantic dodge.

                    When someone claims that God wouldn’t really turn a rosary gold unless he turned it to solid 14 karat gold, that strikes me as the sort of thing an atheist might say. First, we complain that people are getting rich off Medjugorje, then we say that, if Medjugorje were real, we should expect God to make them rich by turning their rosaries into solid gold, but He certainly wouldn’t change their color. How do people know what God would or wouldn’t do?

                    I posted a couple of pics of what happened to my rosary. Of course, no one is obliged to believe me. I make no claim of the meaning behind it. I’m not even sure I believe in Medjugorje. All I know is that weird things happened to me associated with Medjugorje, and the rosary is just one of them.

              • Joseph

                There’s no reason to doubt it. The overall point is its relevance. If the Church declares that Medj. is a fraud, there’s no reason to even discuss it. And, Dave isn’t going to go into open rebellion if the Church does because his rosary turned goldish… so I don’t see the harm in believing that they did.

      • Maxime N. DiGent

        Yes, the wire in chain rosaries is nickel-plated brass. I have one that “turned gold,” too–and I’ve never been to Medjugorje. :-)

  • LSpinelli

    Even though I’ve been critical of Spirit Daily, there ARE plenty of spiritually nourishing tidbits on there. It’s not a site for people who have poor discernment, as Mark always points out. They take the stories that Spirit Daily puts on the site (and a lot of those are indeed bizarre and nutty) as an alternative gospel.

    Spirit Daily would restore a lot of credibility if Brown disassociated himself from all the nonsense, not just the Medjugorje circus. Don’t link stuff from the Health Ranger quack or paranoid conspiracy sites like The Vigilant Citizen. Stick with solid Catholic thinking and teaching.

  • ivan_the_mad

    ” worries about the honest faith of simple good people who have been
    honestly deceived and whose whole faith may come crashing down as a

    This. I am very worried for some relatives and friends who are convinced of the veracity of Medjugorje.

    • http://www.likelierthings.com/ Jon W

      It was mentioned – mentioned – at a class at my church and people got hot immediately. I am a little worried about what’s going to happen if and when a definitive condemnation is made. Ugh.

    • Joseph

      Same here. I have some family that are fully vested in the authenticity of Medj. I’m worried that the Church will be ignored if She announces that it’s a fraud, effectively putting these honest people at odds with the Church. But we’ll see.

  • Mark.

    Big outdoor statue on land adjacent to and I think belonging to the parish nearest me, with a big plaque on its base saying that at that spot the Blessed Virgin appeared to someone who I gather was one of the “visionaries” there on a visit. Paved pathway with Stations of the Cross has recently been completed adjacent to it. Entirely unobjectionable apart from the plaque. I don’t think I should raise a stink with the bishop, but I’m curious and I might start asking questions at that church. I think that the date of the supposed vision is over ten years ago. Maybe a wealthy eccentric is paying for it all.

  • Shawna Mathieu

    Spirit Daily and its leader has promoted other dubious seers and apparitions, some of which have been condemned, but they’ve been shilling for even worse stuff.
    They’re really big on posting conspiracy theory stuff, “natural” cures (some of which are dangerous), scare stories that can be debunked in five minutes – and have zero to do with Catholicism. There’s one site they link to frequently that is not only not Catholic, there is some seriously messed up ideas there – like, there are nephilim around, and aliens.
    I finally emailed the author of the site and told him that, with the way the site’s going, I could no longer in good conscience read it. All I go was a one sentence reply that said the site’s the same it’s always been.

  • MarylandBill

    Even the surest private revelations like Fatima, Lourdes and Knox (had to throw the Irish one in there :)), have the potential to cause division amongst the faithful. I can’t think of how many times I have heard people complain about the Pope not revealing the third secret of Fatima, years after he revealed it.

    When the private revelations are held inside the context of our faith they can greatly enrich our spiritual lives, but when they are dangerous if they form a substitute for it.

    • Pavel Chichikov


  • $2346491

    First, I don’t think that people should be bilked by conmen, so it is good that the CDF is pointing that out. However, I think that Medjugorje is part of the conflict between the charismatic movement and the traditionalist movement. It seems like both are “competing” for members and each has their own Marian obsession. It is good to remind the charismatics about Medjugorje; however, I also hope that the CDF will remind people about the conspiracy theories surrounding Fatima as well. (For instance, reminding people that “Father” Gruner isn’t a priest in good standing.)
    Secondly, I take anything that Father Amorth says with a huge grain of salt. He also thinks that Harry Potter is diabolic in nature. I don’t think that the apparitions are real, but Medjugorje came about because of politics in the Balkans rather than anything otherworldly. I don’t think that there is anything evil about venerating Mary ever and hucksters and frauds tend to cling to other Marian sites as well.. i.e. Fatima. Also, you can buy Virgin Mary shot glasses at Lourdes.
    Lastly, I was disappointed about the “Wild West Mass”. I was expecting Schoenborn to be dressed as Wild Bill Coyote or Chief Sitting Bull and come riding around in the stadium or something. It strikes me as a Catholic archbishop says a public Mass at a festival in a distracted setting (which many other have done) and conservative ministry that doesn’t like the bishop and is attached to some dubious characters edits it to make him look bad. There are also edits on Gloria TV about the perceived liturgical abuses of Cardinal Bergoglio.

  • JustinPMilne

    Lourdes was called a FRAUD, Fatima was called a FRAUD, Medjugorje is said to be FRAUDULENT, oh and Kibeho was called a FRAUD. Who wouldn’t have a hard time believing the unbelievable? I’m sure there have been people we all have met in our walk of faith whom people have called FRAUDS for their encounter with the divine. But if you are wrong their words aren’t FRAUDLENT, but it is yours that are. Certain sins are unforgiveable, and we have a difficult time accepting them, the one your post has not committed but seems to be moving towards is this…

    Sins against the Holy Spirit: Impugning the known truth

    (Clarification: To “impugn” the known truth means to
    attack it by word or argument, to resist it, to contradict it, or even to oppose
    the known truth or to challenge it as false.)

    It is better to take a stance that is on the fence regarding Medjugorje, not to encourage it without it being known nor discourage it without it being known. Both would be a first step toward the unforgivable sin of impunging the truth and none of us want to do that. As I’m sure you already know it’s one of the sins that the Pharises committed against Jesus. A healthier response would be to pray that both we and the Church are given the sight to discern this.

    • HornOrSilk

      Bayside was called a fraud. It must be true, using your line of reasoning? Seriously, this is poor logic. It’s like saying “Piltdown Man was declared a fraud, so it must be true, too.”

      Doubting an apparition is not a sin. It is not a sin against the Holy Spirit; the fact that you make it such says more of your error and how far from the Church you have come to support error.

      There is no sin, for example, to believe Fatima is a fraud. To this day. What you have done is turn apparitions into idols, and this is exactly what the Church decries.

      • Dave

        No, I am pretty sure he is just saying that it is not true that all claims of the supernatural are fraudulent, and that we should be circumspect about going all-in against it or for it until such time as the Church definitively speaks, lest we find ourselves fighting against God, as Gamaliel said.

        • HornOrSilk

          Even if you believe an apparition is a fraud, it is not a sin. He has said it is. That’s error.

          • Guest

            Didn’t I say ‘the one your post has not committed, but seems to be moving towards is this…’

          • Dave

            That is true. I believe that Catholics are allowed to privately hold the belief that Fatima or Lourdes, etc. are false. As I understand it, they are not to campaign or publicly advocate against them, however.

    • Amore

      When this is over I wonder if our Church will name a new heresy to define those that idolize and worship private revelation or is there already one defined?

      • JustinPMilne

        No Heresy that I know of? A Doctor of the Church speaks on it though. Saint John of the Cross – http://www.saintbooks.net.

        • Amore

          I’m not sure if it was your intention but your discourse regarding sins against the Holy Spirit and impugning truth might give one the impression you are elevating private revelation and medj to an equal par with that of the Holy Trinity. One might consider this idolatry, no?
          I assure you that critically viewing medj or any unapproved private revelation the same way I critically view global warming or evolutionary theory is not a sin against the Holy Spirit.

          • JustinPMilne

            Elevating them on equal par with the Trinity and Dogma would be idolatry. However, if the message is determined to be authentic, all this private revelation does is compliment the public revelation which has already been revealed. I mention in my reply that the post does not impung the known truth. My only concern is labeling the message as fraudulent if it is true can be contrary to the work of the Holy Spirit in our world. It’s good to test whether Medjugorje is true or false, this is also what I’m saying.

            The main intention of my reply was that it is important not to presume something is fraudulent before the Church has determined this to be the case. We have made this mistake many times in the past, and hurt both the Saints and the prophets because of this mistake.

            • Amore

              The local ordinaries have already cautioned us many times in many different ways. The CDF, in a letter through the Apostic Nunciature, has just reaffirmed their declaration and advised (warned) that it should be accepted.

              Idolize what you will but I choose, in obedience to the Holy Spirit, to accept and follow the guidance of our Church….be it done to me according to thy word.

              • JustinPMilne

                Well, thanks be to God my faith doesn’t rely upon Medjugorje to be sustained. I wouldn’t be overwhelmingly disraught if Medjugorje was said to be false, however now is not the time for that. I wlll graciously accept and live by the warning however. Thanks for offering this. God bless.

  • Diana

    On the topic of miracles, one of your comboxers years ago remarked that if 50,000 people showed up and prayed the Rosary in his backyard, he’d expect miracles there, too. True good fruits may well be there – fruits of the simple faith of the faithful, rather than the alleged visions.

  • anna lisa

    My kids rail at me when they see me peeking at Spirit Daily. That’s the problem with kids. They have steel-trap memories. They remember the time when it worked me all up into a froth over the bird flu. There was a really silly article a few days ago about glittery spirit goo that happens miraculously on statues and chosen Illuminati. I think that the devil gets a good laugh when he can work a few signs and wonders, but is actually creating fodder to feed the mirth of our cynical world. It’s a little bit like that “Our Lady of the burnt cheese sandwich” ridiculousness.
    I feel bad about Medj. (yes, I’m too lazy to look up the correct spelling) I don’t think Mirjana and (Vicka?) are frauds. They don’t strike me as charlatans or professional frauds. I couldn’t condemn them. Perhaps they are just victims of deceptions like anyone who marveled over Pharaoh’s magicain being able to change a staff into a snake. God Bless them.

  • Marc

    Father Amorth went to bat for the false Italian “seer” Deborah Marasco saying essentially the same thing he has said about Medjugorje, that her “revelations” were a stronghold against the Devil, a sure revelation from God, etc, but Marasco’s “visions” not only were condemned, but also were exposed as fraudulent, something to do with tampering of evidence, of vials of blood from alleged images (or maybe it was from Marasco herself since she also claims to be a stigmatist), that were collected to be studied by the ecclesiastical commission, but the seals were found to be broken, etc… I can’t remember the exact details because I never believed in her anyway and this was many years ago, so obviously Father Amorth is no yardstick to gauge a private revelation by, despite being an exorcist. No one knows better than Satan how to play both sides of the fence. And by the way, Spirit Digest is apoplectic over this article by Mark Shea questioning its kindred site Spirit Daily over Medjugorje. Another common argument “for” Medjugorje is the statue of “our lady” of Medjugorje in Civitavecchia that supposedly bled and was declared by the local Bishop there to be genuine, despite the fact that independent tests proved the blood from the statue to be identical to the blood of the priest who owned it… Also, I don’t know how the two sites are connected, but Spirit Daily takes several articles from Spirit Digest…Spirit Digest publishes them first, and then Spirit Daily “borrows” the links two or three days later for its own site. Neither site gives any credence to any negative reporting about Medjugorje, and they always find a way to dance around it and minimize it so that by the time they’re done any easily-swayed person will conclude: “Oh, the Church doesn’t really mean it that way after all.” They’ll probably be the first ones to break from the Church when Medjugorje is condemned, while spouting their usual disclaimer: “for your discernment”, which is nothing but a protestant tenet anyway, since one reader can “discern” something one way, and another reader can “discern” it a totally different way, and the REAL DISCERNMENT (done by the teaching authority of THE CHURCH) is totally disregarded. For those of you who are interested, the book “Medjugorje After Fifteen Years” by the late Michael Davies (RIP) is an excellent resource for the truth about Medjugorje, since Davies’ wife is Croatian and fluent in the language, and worked with Bishop Zanic directly in translating all the original documents (including those written by the “visionaries” themselves) and tape recordings of the “seers” from the very first days of the “apparitions” (which permanently captured their lies and contradictions for all posterity) into English for the book. I bought my copy on Amazon.

  • Theresa

    I thought that the church gives permission to the faithful to believe in apparitions unless they are forbidden. I think everyone is entitled to their own opinion on these apparitions for now and it isn’t very christan of the author to deride people who happen to believe. I don’t know the statistics but I know for certain that a large number of our younger priests have found their vocation while visiting Medjugorje. Also many conversions and people returning to the sacraments, especially confession, have been attributed to them visiting this holy place. Please treat your christian brothers and sisters with respect as we wait for the Vatican’s decision.

    • Marc

      Yes, until an apparition is condemned by the Church, the faithful are free to believe in them. But, without the Bishop’s permission, the faithful are NOT FREE to turn the place into a shrine, have religious articles made of the alleged apparition, go there on pilgrimages (particularly clergy-led pilgrimages which gives the impression that the Bishop is not competent in his own diocese to determine the best course of action regarding the alleged revelation happening there), world-tours of the so-called “visionaries” treating their audiences to their “apparitions” wherever they go, and on and on like Medjugorje has done, taking on a life of its own, as if it was its own independent religion that is accountable to no one… Spirit Daily and Spirit Digest have gone to very great lengths many times on their websites when talking about Medjugorje to remind their readers that “Rome has taken Medjugorje out of the hands of the Bishop of Mostar” with no effort at all to take measures to explain WHY Rome did this, preferring to leave their readers with the impression that Medjugorje was too big for the Bishop to handle. THIS IS A LIE. This is what Medjugorje and all its adherents have done from the very beginning, after ALL the warnings and requests from Bishop Zanic (and later his replacement), they have just gone ahead and ignored every advisory and order from the Bishop of Mostar which he had every right to impose in his own diocese. Disobedience to the local Bishop – as Saint Teresa of Avila herself says – is the surest sign that an alleged private revelation is NOT from God, no matter how many wonders, signs, “miracles”, and, yes, even CONVERSIONS turn out because of it. It doesn’t matter HOW MANY other priests, bishops, cardinals, or even POPES believe in its authenticity; as long as the matter rests in the hands of the Bishop of that particular diocese, that Bishop MUST BE OBEYED. At Medjugorje, disobedience has been the most prevalent fruit in the more than 30 years since this farce started. The Bishops of Mostar that have been involved with Medjugorje, have NEVER been treated “with respect as we wait for the Vatican’s decision.” In every historical APPROVED apparition, Our Lady has ALWAYS submitted Herself to the authority of the Church; in the person of the diocesan Bishop. If She doesn’t do this, THEN IT’S NOT OUR LADY.

      • Theresa

        What will you do if it is approved? Why do you protest so much? Can’t you just let the authorities decide? Why all the drama?

        • Theresa

          Marc,I feel you are not very peaceful. God bless you!

          • Marc

            I can’t help how you feel; that is your prerogative. God knows what I am, and that is enough for me. What will I do if its approved? I will still ignore it, and believe it to be a farce. Approbation of a private revelation is not a dogma to be imposed on us under pain of excommunication if we choose not to believe it. But at that point we can no longer legitimately denounce it for the fraud it is, and thus must leave the issue alone. Only at that point will I shut my mouth about it. In the meantime, as a great devotee of Our Lady, I cannot just stand by and see Her used and disgraced this way, as they have been doing for over 30 years. As for those of you who refuse to even look at the considerable evidence against Medjugorje (because you’re afraid it will prove your faith and devotion in it to be misguided), all I can do is repeat that great saying of Mark Twain: “It is easier to fool people than to convince them they have been fooled.”

            • wilhelmina

              If it does not come from God? who do I have to thank ? satan,who brought millions and millions to be reconcile d with our heavenly father.mmmmmm

              • frank

                I have to agree with Theresa, Mr. Shea. You don’t seem to be at peace in your soul. I don’t make any judgement on Medjugorje. But if it is true, then I wouldn’t want to be in your shoes. Detraction and calumny are very serious sins. I heard that the visionaries of Medjugorje said that when the criticisms of the appartions are at their highest point, it is then that the secrets will begin to unfold. And the greatest detractors will be among the first to run up the hill in Medjugorje.

  • Matthewfive

    We have to ask ourselves are we obedient to the Catholic Church or these alleged visionaries. I choose the Church and its 2000 year history. We follow Jesus, not visionaries. Sincerity is not the criteria for God’s truth. Ever been sold a piece of junk, by a sincere person? There are unbelievers who reject the Catholic faith because of so many gullible Catholics who fall for the first sincere fraud who comes their way.

  • Mary B.

    Mark, my Bishop posted the alleged “monthly messages” of Medjugorje for several years in our catholic newspaper. He was well-known as a conservative Bishop in obedience to the Magisterium.

    When I reverted to the church in 2002, it’s not as though there was much spiritual material available to understand private revelations, St. John of the Cross is very deep, and besides EWTN gave a favorable presentation on Medjugorje.

    Needless to say, one woman who returned from Medjugore showed me her gold color rosary–it changed from silver to gold color, one decade at a time on her airflight home from Medjugorje to the USA. By the time the plane landed the rosary color was completely changed to the color gold (not pure gold). She’s a medical doctor, MD, and was quite skeptical of the rosary change and ignored it. But when she returned from Medjugorje to her USA home, she couldn’t stop thinking about praying the rosary. As a result of praying the rosary, she took a keener interest in the catholic church holy sacrifice of the Mass, and converted to Catholicism.

    One man mentioned to me how he was a womanizer, and was always surrounded by the most beautiful women. He abandoned the Catholic faith, that is, until the person who sponsored him in baptism, paid for him to go to Medjugorje. I’ll never forget when he told me in the most sincere way, that when he was in Medjugorje he heard the most beautiful woman’s voice he’s ever heard in his life speak to him, and for him, it was Blessed Mother. For him, that’s when his faith gradually awakened to God’s love to come home to The Church. He returned to the church, and, is now a monk.

    These people I mentioned to you were spiritually balanced, from what I could discern, and led a normal life. I never felt it was my place to reprimand them b/c it’s their gradual conversion to God, awakened by God’s love for each one of them.

    As a matter of fact, my husband who was never interested in Medjugorje, decided one day he was gonna leave our marriage and I didn’t know it. He’s not into mysticism or visionaries. But he decided to pray to Holy Mother, asking for help, praying the Hail Mary. He actually heard her audible voice tell him : “Do not leave her. You have a Sacrament.” When he heard her tone of voice, he experienced an increase of peace and quiet joy. This has never happened to him before–and he does not hear voices, Mark. How could I question his spiritual experience–when I experienced Blessed Mother’s love for me, through my husband.

    Personally I just can’t tell folks who’ve been to Medjugorje, ”Your spiritual experience in Medjugorje, which is rooted in receiving our Lord Jesus, in the most holy eucharist, at the holy sacrifice of the Mass is fake. ”

    Having stated all of this, I am not an expert on unapproved private revelations. Rather, I trust the experienced wisdom and discernment of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith and the Bishop of Mostar. All Catholics should be in unity and obedient to the decision of the Magisterium and only to the Bishop of Medjugorje on this unapproved apparition.

    • Marc

      Mary B, I appreciate you sharing your stories, and I don’t doubt for a moment they are true; what is interesting however is exactly how you confirmed my points:

      Personally I just can’t tell folks who’ve been to Medjugorje, ”Your spiritual experience in Medjugorje, which is fake. ”

      Their “spiritual experience in Medjugorje” is NOT fake, exactly BECAUSE it is “.rooted in receiving our Lord Jesus, in the most holy eucharist, at the holy sacrifice of the Mass.” The experiences they have are fruits of THE MASS AND THE EUCHARIST, AND PRAYER AND PENANCE, NOT THE “APPARITIONS.” God doesn’t suspend the law of Grace at false apparition sites for people who are sincere believers and are not aware of the falsehoods there. I visited Sabana Grande in Puerto Rico just a few months before it was condemned by the Bishop in charge, and I personally received a very astonishing grace there. But as soon as I read the condemnation in the paper, I never gave that supposed apparition another thought. As it stands today, the main “seer”, Angel Collado, was thereafter exposed not only as the fraud he was, but also as a sexual predator who created a bizarre cult based on his “apparitions” that was anything but Catholic… He has since left the island in disgrace. As for his two companion “seers”, they no longer talk to the press. THE LOCAL BISHOPS MUST BE FOLLOWED, and if the revelation is really true GOD WILL PROVE IT IN DUE TIME. Which proves my next point, where you said:

      ” Rather, I trust the experienced wisdom and discernment of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith and the Bishop of Mostar. All Catholics should be in unity and obedient to the decision of the Magisterium and only to the Bishop of Medjugorje on this unapproved apparition.”
      That is exactly the biggest problem with this “apparition”: believers in Medjugorje DO NOT TRUST the “wisdom and discernment of…the Bishop of Mostar”, and Medjugorje Catholics are NOT “in unity and obedient to the decision of the Magisterium and only to the Bishop of Medjugorje.” Neither of the two Bishops of Mostar involved with Medjugorje have EVER been obeyed and respected by either the “visionaries”, the priests at Medjugorje, or the believers in these “apparitions.” That is the greatest proof above all the others that it is not Our Lady appearing there. No matter what these Bishops have said or prescribed by way of precaution about Medjugorje, those involved with Medjugorje (including the millions of believers) have just continued however they please as though the Bishop has no authority in the matter.

  • john konnor

    ..if one says something which is false yet does not have the intention to deceive then it is materially false it is more negligent and rash..yet in medjugorje we see many examples of intentional deception formal falsehoods injurious to those around since it imparts a false estimation of events..and intends for others to take away a false opinion..so it is opposed to truth…Jesus said he was truth..medjugorje is opposed to Christ…anti-christ..yet the veneer of piety hides the collusion

  • john konnor
  • bobby

    Mark, your problem is two-fold: 1) you sound like a rabid dog or an Oliver Cromwell in pursuit of priests with the way you call the visionaries frauds (but then mention how one priest says it might be demonic which if that were true would mean they are deceived by Satan, who is second in power only to God, so deceived but not fraudsters, a contradiction in your point)
    2) you are disobedient to the Church yourself in calling them fraudsters, while the Church itself councils patience. You are the opposite side of that same coin called disobedience, but too rabid to realize it.

    Maybe you should pour a tall glass of Guiness and let it go for awhile and know that all of it is in safe hands within Christ’s Church, instead of pronouncing as if you are the Vatican Commission.

    God bless you.

  • wilhelmina

    You either believe in Medj or you don’t.that is not a sin,,but the one who wrote the article ,it feels like he hates Medj,and the people who believe in Medj,That is something I cant understand.He is not at peace I would say

  • lisa

    Thank you for this…. I have never thought this a true appatition…and it is not in our hands but Rome’s. Read…investigate Caritas in Alabama (“fruit” of Medj)…very interesting. Looking for a private revelation to join yourself to? Ever heard of Fatima?

  • Sam Simmons

    Once a upon a time, I truly believed in Medjugorje. I fully lived the messages for six years, even fasting on bread and water (okay, coffee, too) twice per week. I spent some time with a couple of the visionaries, and even had my rosary “turn gold” on top of Cross Mountain in Medjugorje. Thanks be to God, I have been freed from that fraud. Hey – I challenge every Med-head to try a bit of tarnish remover on those rosaries that have “turned gold”. The miracle washes right off. Here is another challenge – ask yourself if Jesus is at the center of Medjugorje. If he truly is “the way, the truth and the life” – why is Jesus so far in the background of Medjugorje?Instead, it is all about the Gospa, and the visionaries, and the secrets, and the messages. Oh goodness – living those messages. If Jesus said, from the Cross, “It is done” – why does the Gospa always say “do more and more”? Because the goal of this fraudulent apparition is to keep well meaning people from knowing their need of a Savior, namely Jesus. After all, who needs Jesus when you can save yourself and others by “living the messages”???

    • Padraig

      Jesus – ‘Pray always’.

      The call to prayer is constant and we constantly need reminding. Nothing wrong in that I can see there, Sam.

      “Certain ‘demons’ can only be delivered through prayer and fasting.”

      Mary we are told says: ‘You have forgotten that through prayer and fasting you can prevent war and change the laws of nature….. ‘ We are asked that we fast as was done in the early Church – see Didache – on Wednesdays and Fridays.

      This was asked for in Fatima too – prayer and reparation – penance.

      Euchartist. Adoration. Confession/Reconciliation. Conversion – life time process – heart of stone to one of flesh – open to the fullness of life that is God. To Love.

      At Medjugorje there have been messages given as to what the world might expect if it continues on its course.

      As at Fatima and other places were messages/secrets/warnings were given as to what people can expect when we don’t expect and ask for peace.

      Why are they kept ‘secret’ for so long ? Cause we have the power to change the outcome/s – challenge those demons Jesus spoke about in the gospels – through prayer and fasting. Through that conversion of heart – praying constantly for peace in our selves, our families, society and in the world.

      Daily Rosary – as prayer of the heart and prayed this way is the power of Love itself. Try it.

      You left the Catholic Church too Sam ? You seem critical of all things Catholic here.

      I’ve only been to Medjugorje once. I don’t need to go back but it changed me completely. Renewed my faith. Reminds me daily to run the race to the end as St Paul asks we do in his epistle. Mary often refers to Paul’s epistles in the ‘meaningless messages’.

      I have not read anything I find meaningless or not of the gospels. I need constant reminders. I am thankful for them.

      In the movie, “The Miracle of Our Lady of Fatima” – Sister Lucia, older towards the end says to her friend that when people turn again to God and start to pray the Rosary daily there would be peace in the world.

      Same today.

      Rather than spending time arguing needlessly like this – people should be asking, praying for peace in our hearts, families, societies and the world.

      It’s not all about Mary. It’s all about Mary showing us how to convert – hearts of stone to those of flesh – capable at each moment of its own ‘fiat’ – ‘Yes’ to God, through that same Lord – Jesus Christ at each and every moment.

      Mark – if anything – this is really all about you and pretty sad reflection on where you are spiritually.


      • Padraig


        As to ‘Spirit Daily’.

        They should re instate the list of prohibited reading in Catholicism for that place alone.

      • Sam Simmons

        Padraig – I appreciate your thoughtful reply. However, neither Jesus nor the apostles ever said that a person can be converted (“saved”) by prayer or sacrifices (or “living the messages”). That is anti-Christ.

        Also, I did not say one thing about the Catholic church in my comment. Are you now saying that Medjugorje is Catholic? The Gospa herself once said that all religions belong to God and that the holiest person in the village was an old orthodox woman. You need to read more closely ALL the Gospa’s messages.

        Honestly, I wish I saw at Medjugorje the same level of devotion to Jesus that “believers” give to Mary. But that is not the case.


    • frank

      That’s funny, it seems the main thing Our Lady speaks about at Medjugorje is staying close to Jesus. She repeats this message over and over. As regards the secrets, the visionaries usually deflect most questions about them. We know as much about the secrets now as we did 30 years ago. I am not sure if Medjugorje is from God or not, but much of what you say is a total misrepresentation and very dishonest. Fr. Rene Laurentin is probably the most respected Marian theologian in the world, and he has a very high opinion of Medjugorje. And so did St. Pope John Paul ll.

    • Eimeara Volodchenko

      That’s the problem, it’s about the visionaries more than anyone else. Jesus seems to be excluded and devotion to Our Lady is not encouraged.

  • pantherkill

    these thugs must be exposed for the cheap idiots that they are.
    enough of the decades long “apparitions” where the mother of god appears on que like an actor appearing on stage whenever these liars snap their fingers
    only to give us a vague pointless message that is meaningless.
    The day they dragged a DAY GLO painted statue out of one of the seers houses said it all. she claimed she found her holy statue “glowing ” the church took the miracle statue outa her house – I had to laugh! the alleged miracle statue was so obviously painted with cheap florescent green day glow paint and the “seer”
    was standing there so proud of her miracle statue! Unbelievable. DISGUSTING
    this time the lie was so obvious they lost any credibility that these idiots had left
    they are thugs, making fools out of unsuspecting people who trust them.

  • justme

    We will all know in eternity the truth….Why worry about such things? Look to yourself and if you would read the Vatican’s latest announcement on the subject, you will see they have stated no fraud, or deception is in Medjugorje…For those who have received conversion and a return to the faith, this is miracle enough…I have met and spoken with many people of different faiths, cultures and countries who experienced the conversion graces and have seen their lives changed dramatically…We will know them by their fruits… I say wait and see….Pray and leave it all in God’s hands…Also, know the Vatican will not define any apparition until the apparitions have ended…Then it will probably take 100 years…But one question I leave you with is this – If Our Lady has been appearing for 31 years, what is she trying to tell us?
    And lastly, all the reports of apparitions around the world have the same message and this message points to her Son Jesus…Read St. Maximillian Kolbe’s study of Mary…God bless all of you today and always….

    • marybernadette

      Thank you justme for your well balanced response. Also, Satan is so wily,
      that he can make ‘genuine apparitions appear false and ‘false’ ones appear real. The Vatican is right in cautioning the faithful re:’ alleged apparitions’ when they have to. However, as Our Lady is purported to have said, the devil will do what he can to destroy any good work of the Lord’s. Our Blessed Lady is the Mother
      of the ‘New Evangelization’ therefore, if she is appearing there, she always
      points to Her Son and the Salvation of Souls.

  • Carolyn

    Don’t judge. If you don’t agree with something just don’t be apart of it. Life has many lessons and paths, journeys we are on. Work on yourself and let things go you don’t understand. In the end it will all be apparent, no getting around it. It all boils down to Love is everything. So simple.

    • Sam Simmons

      Jesus is everything, Carolyn. Not love. Love is great, but love without God is ultimately worth zero.

      • chezami

        God is love. You can’t have “love without God”.

        • MoonRiver

          Haven’t you heard. America is everything.

          Center of the Cosmos. They kick Jesus out at every turn.

  • MoonRiver

    Why is it that all Americans seem loud, ignorant and arrogant – at least online ?

    You are a consistent and utter embarrassment to yourselves.

    Your politics pollute everything you think and do.

    Shocking revelation. You are not as it seems you are raised to believe – the center of everything. Thank God or we’d really all be in trouble.

    • Shayne Swenson

      He may be loud and obnoxious, but at least he’s not a sucker

      • MoonRiver

        No but you clearly are. Enjoy it a little too much too I bet.

        This the ‘fruit’ of your ‘orthodoxy’ – eye for an eye ?


        • MoonRiver

          Looking at that gob of his – would fit him better if he ate less and gave some of it to feed others.

          Isn’t that supposed to be what Jesus is about. I don’t claim to be anything in this regard. Nor do I see ANY evidence of ‘christianity’ in this place either.

          Just a bunch of sorry people afraid of the world and themselves.

          • Shayne Swenson

            LOL. Lighten up you grump. Throw mud, get dirty.

    • Dan

      We’re like that just when we are on the internet. We are otherwise very nice people. :-)

  • Shayne Swenson

    I’m a new convert, and the blatantly obvious fraud of Medjugorje has led me to consider Eastern Orthodoxy. I sure hope Rome doesn’t approve of this cash cow or I will have to go east. It just seems so obvious. I’m literally at a loss for words when I meet Medjuroje true believers, and the majority of them have a “from my cold dead hands” attitude about their pet apparition. It truly is morphing into yet another pseudo sect that has no ground in the time tested logic of the orthodox Catholic Church. Why so defensive and filled with angry vitriolic comments for those of us who think it to be fraud? The facts are hard to swallow. I know. I was a protestant for years. The truth hurts. No one is doubting your experiences with God, but claiming that this money making scheme is legit, really makes me question other apparitions like lourdes and fatima, and that troubles me.

    • Joseph

      I personally don’t think that the apparitions are true and believe them to be a fraud as well… but…
      “I sure hope Rome doesn’t approve of this cash cow or I will have to go east.”
      This sounds like you don’t fully understand what it means to be Catholic and aren’t quite Catholic yet; still retaining some Protestant qualities. If not Medjugorje, I’m sure you’ll find some other reason to jump ship at some point, based on this statement. Apparitions are never a matter of faith, dogma, or doctrine. So whether or not the Church declares it true or fraudulent has no bearing on Church teaching.

    • Eimeara Volodchenko

      Exactly. Why these defensive angry comments when someone dares to criticise the visionaries?? I was told elsewhere I need a lot of prayers because I said they were show offs and making money. Plenty of literature out there to prove it so its not slander/calumny.

  • justme

    Shayne, the Catholic Church does NOT require Catholics to believe in any apparition of private revelation…They do investigate and may declare it “worthy of belief”.as in Fatima and Lourdes. But even then, as a Catholic you do not have to accept it… As stated in my previous comments, don’t worry about it…Worry about the love and faith in your heart and your family…Be the best follower of the teachings of Jesus that you can be…I don’t know who you are meeting that is drumming “my cold dead hands” attitude to you…In all my readings of the messages, it calls for Prayer, Fasting, Reading Scripture, and Penance…Nothing new here…Just a reminder of the message in the Bible…I hope you do not leave the Church, as the Catholic Church is a well of graces and gifts for each one of us….God bless you…Justme

  • Christene Bartels

    First off, let me state that I am neither “pro” Medujorje or “anti” Medjugorje.

    What I am “anti” are catholics who have a personal pet peeve about some aspect of the Church, or the Mass, or a devotion, or a visionary, or an apparition…..and feel it is their holy duty to rant and rave about it and turn it into some kind kind of personal crusade.

    Mark, sorry to burst your bubble of self righteous indignation, but your personal opinion on Medjugorje means squat. So get off your high horse.

    Your opinion piece is shrill, divisive, and disparaging of millions of faithful, devout, catholics. Do you really think the Church, at this time in history, needs ANOTHER strident, angry voice inciting more points of contention?

    The apparition has been going on for 33 years, spanning 3 Popes, 24 of those years under the watchful eye of a Pope who just happens to be a saint. I will take the discernment of the Church in this matter over your arrogant proclamations any day.

    How about if we just try to be happy, holy, humble, CHARITABLE catholics and let the Church do her job.

    • HornOrSilk

      Seems you are actually pro- Medj. More importantly, the local ordinary, whose response is the response of the church as the normal authority on the matter, has constantly through those years said “no” to the authenticity of the apparition. So if you want to play it that way… then no is the answer.

      • justme

        My only intention to a new convert to the Catholic Church was to explain the teachings regarding private revelations…To leave the
        Church over something which is not doctrine would show a lack a true faith formation…And that our journey is to be in the heart of Jesus and to follow Him….Justme

      • Christene Bartels

        Excuse me but…..huh??

      • Christene Bartels

        If that were the case, we wouldn’t be having this conversation.

        I don’t understand WHY this is even a conversation in the first place. Keep your nose out of other people’s piety and faith journey. If the Church honesty thought that it was demonic, don’t you think she would have condemned it??

        I don’t understand strident rhetoric on both sides of the conversation. You are the flip sides of the same coin.

        If Medjugorje is approved, will it adversely affect your faith.

        If it is condemned, with it adversely affect your faith.

        If the answer is yes, you have a bigger problem than the “alleged” apparitions in a small town in Bosnia- Hertsocovinia.

        • HornOrSilk

          Again, the local ordinary. He represents the church. QED.

          • Christene Bartels

            And as you know, the matter was taken out of the hands of the local ordinary by Rome and put in the hands of a commission. So I’m a little confused by your response.

            Also, may I ask why you are so invested in your negative view? What makes you so certain you are right??

            I’m just trying to understand the hostility that seems to permeate the discussion about Medjugorje. And what will you do if the Commision and the Church rule favorably?

            • chezami

              No. The matter has been *actively handed over to Rome by the local bishops* because the bishops know that Rome is going to back up what they have been saying all along. One of the many lies told by Medj fans is that lie that Rome “took the matter out of the hands” of the local bishops.

              • Christene Bartels

                Please note my response to “Hornsilk”.

            • HornOrSilk

              Typical Medj blather from the pro-Medj side. Same points which are not points at all. I reject Medj and find it destructive on many levels.

              • Christene Bartels

                Again, I am neither FOR Medjugorje nor AGAINST it. I have never been there nor do I follow the news flowing from the “alleged”apparition site, although I do read the messages if I happen upon them. Frankly, if Rome came out today and condemned the apparitions, declared the phenomenon an elaborate demonic deception, and forbade catholics from following it, I would take the news as an indication of how dark and evil these days truly are and move on with my day.

                What fascinates me is the discussion itself and the complete lack of charity it fosters within certain circles of people on BOTH sides of the phenomenon. And Medjugorje is just ONE of the petty, divisive arguments taking place in the Church today. It could be the Novas Ordo vs. the Tridentine Mass, the “new” Novas Ordo vs, the “old” Novas Ordo, “conservative” vs. “liberal”, “progressive” vs. “traditional”, “left”vs.”right”,women priests, priestly celibacy, the music, attire at Mass, communion in hand or by mouth…….pick your pet peeve if that pops your cork. Just please stop taking your personal opinion and using it to bludgeon the people of differing opinions because you think they are WRONGGGG!!! Lord, it’s a wonder the Holy Spirit has room to breath at all these days!

                In the meantime, there are brothers and sisters who would just like to live out their faith without being shot, blown-up, stoned, or having their heads chopped off. I wonder what they think of their self-absorbed, spoiled-rotten, counterparts in the West.

                Here are the “facts” on Medjugorje.
                1. The “alleged” apparitions have been going on for 33 years and millions of Catholic
                have traveled there and/or follow the messages.
                2. An international commission was established in 2010 to study all aspects of the
                “alleged” apparitions and issue a final report to guide the Holy See in rendering a
                a final decision, which they did in Jan. of 2014. By the sounds of it, Pope Francis
                has no plans of issuing a final judgment in the near future.
                3. As with ANY private revelation, be it Fatima, Lourdes, or any other number of
                approved apparitions, Catholics are free to believe or not believe. Whatever
                floats your boat.

                Now, can we all just zip our lips, move beyond our petty grievances, and focus on what unites us, like our FAITH ahem, and go out and witness to a dying world the power of Christ’s love?

                Just sayin’.

                • HornOrSilk

                  You are promoting Medj and criticizing those who are against it. You are using the standard pro-Medj claims. You are pro-Medj, and being quite deceptive, as is often the case with their promoters.

                  It’s amazing how you talk about lack of charity but you have a lack of honesty.

                  • Christene Bartels

                    WOW!!! Well, how can I respond to such all powerful insight??!! Not only have you called me a liar but you also seem to have the ability to peer into my heart and discern my duplicitous motives!

                    I bow to your omnipotence!

                    • HornOrSilk

                      I’m so used to this method of “defense” by the medj-heads. You are fooling no one.

                    • Christene Bartels

                      Lol. My, my…..arrogant, condescending, dismissive, disparaging…..you are the total package! A real Christian charmer!
                      Thank you for the illuminating conversation.
                      I will leave you to go out and spread your “special” light out into the world.

                    • HornOrSilk

                      You mean, you aren’t? What do do you think your schtick is? Sorry, had enough of it before. “I’m above it all” yet “how dare you be against Medj” with the common claim that the Pope somehow supports it. Sorry, no one is conned.

                    • Christene Bartels

                      I was not aware of the letter sent to the U.S. Bishops by the CDF reminding them that while the investigation into Medjugorje by the Commission is ongoing (at the time of the letter) the faithful and clergy should take the findings of the local investigation, which stated ” at this time it can not be stated that the events are of supernatural origin” (paraphrasing mine) and, therefore, they are not allowed to participate in meetings, gatherings, or conferences where the approval of the apparitions would be assumed.

                      Apparently, Ivan had a series of conferences scheduled in the US that needed to be to be cancelled. And rightly so. So I apologize for my ignorance in that matter.

                      Having said that, I stand by my comments. As I stated, Medjugorje is just one example of the many petty disputes that are taking place in the Church that seem to devolve into this type of strident, condescending, disparaging catfight

                    • Christene Bartels

                      That is utterly devoid of charity.

                      As far as I am concerned, this article is a prime example of why certain Catholics should not blog. What a lousy witness to the world we are.

  • Christene Bartels

    Sorry, “pro”Medjugorje NOR “anti” Medjugorje. I’m a freak about grammar.

  • Trisha

    Spirit daily ? Are you serious ? An American site all about American politics. Americans really, really need to get out more and realise there is a big world outside the U S of A.

    You are as dangerous as that den of hypocrites. He’s all about selling books which range from the absurd to the ridiculous. But then so do you. Another American fad.

    Queen of Shea’ a.

    Get off your high horse – on your knees, pray more and write less


  • Beverly

    Mark, I respect you and have heard your talks in person at Star of Sea in Bremerton. I don’t know what the end decision will be on Medjuborje – but I have been there three times and witnessed personally much and more of the phenomena described in the area – and also the redemption of several persons. And yes, one of my best friends’s rosary did turn gold. I saw it.
    There are so many miracles going on there and most of them are returns to faith that it is hard to say why you are so negative. Also been around Mirjana when there and see nothing but normality and humility from her and the joy of Vicka is hard to dispell. Re them benefitting financially – I don’t know if that is a problem for God – it may be if they are using this privilege for their own purposes. So can’t speak for that. They never proclaimed to be saints – remember they were just ordinary children experiencing an extraordinary visitation (if it all proves to be true in the end). Meanwhile, I hope to go back one more time and enjoy the peace and prayerfulness that exists in that little town. Beverly

    • Eimeara Volodchenko

      Sorry, but Mirjana is an absolute show off who loves the limelight and financial rewards.I got no sense of humility from her as for Vicka, she smiles so much it looks fake. Vicka too loves the publicity. As for miracles, no reason why God can’t perform them if people go in good faith. I am sure he does with the Rosary too, and one Holy Face promise is that the one praying will be able to work miracles. Just because there are miracles in Medjugorje doesn’t mean the Madonna is there. God will perform one in your house if it is his will.

      • frank

        Well, millions of people apparently disagree with you. And quite frankly, I don’t see any humility in that smug photograph of you next to your name sweetheart.

        • Eimeara Volodchenko

          I am not your sweetheart shut that stupid mouth of yours.. And my humility doesn’t enter into it. There’s is nothing wrong with my photo and just because you disagree with me on Mirjana which you are entitled to do, there is no need to insult me. And millions happen to agree with me regarding her. I don’t go insulting you and your comments are just ridiculous, how can you detect humility or smugness in the photo of someone you have never met?

    • frank

      I think Mr. Shea needs to give up his profession and hit the knees. Prayer is more important than apologetics. Pride is a very sneaky thing.

  • smfm

    Being more prayerful at an alleged shrine is not a yard-stick to measure if it is true or not, people prayer just as much at un-approved apparition sites as they do approved ones. Medjugorje is NOT a Catholic Shrine, the Church hasn’t declared it to be one. Medjugorje has false prophecies & so does MDM. Deuteronomy tells us that if a prophets predictions don’t come true, then that prophet is not to be feared. It no brainer.

    • NotNow

      You are defeating your own argument. people can pray anywhere… shrine or no shrine. Not like God only listens to prayers made at official shrines. Fatima has been declared worthy of belief. But not obligated to accept anything revealed at Fatima. But also can’t call it a giant fraud. Orthodox Catholics accept that Medjugorje is not an approved appartion, and not a Church approved Shrine, but that should fall well short of globally proclaiming it a giant fraud. Mark Shea has put himself in the place of the magisterium substituting his personal opinion for the proclamations made by the Church. Besides, the Church has said many times that Catholics are free to visit Medjugorje. The Church says yes. Mark Shea says no, it is a giant fraud. Who has more authority?

      • HornOrSilk

        No, you following for the lies of the cult of Medjogorje, which misrepresents what the church has also said: the ordinary has rejected it. You are putting yourself above the ordinary, and therefore, the magisterium.

        • NotNow

          I am under the spiritual care of my own Bishop, NOT the local Bishop in Medjugorje. If my own Bishop says I am free to visit… guess what? I am free to visit.

          • HornOrSilk

            The church teaches the ordinary of the place of the claimed apparition has the authority over it. You keep showing how you reject the church’s position and make it up as you go.

            • NotNow

              Let me see… the ordinary has the authority… he has proclaimed it a fraud… but millions still go… and the Pope says nothing against it? Do you not have any appreciation for how idiotic your argument is? If Medjugorje is a settled matter, why is there a Vatican Commission investigating it? Why didn’t the Vatican save itself the trouble and just call up you and Mark Shea? LOL! This is an interesting discussion, and we can quibble over whether the local bishop is the competent authority, or whether the Vatican has taken over that authority, but I don’t think anyone is arguing that Mark Shea is the competent authority. That’s why you two guys are way, way, way out of line.

              • smfm

                Not true that the Pope has said nothing, Pope Francis………
                “The Virgin Mary is not a postmistress, who sends messages every day” http://vaticaninsider.lastampa.it/en/the-vatican/detail/articolo/santa-marta-29726/

                • NotNow

                  Sorry.. that dog won’t hunt. The Pope has NEVER told people to not visit Medjugorje. That is a total fabrication. There is a Vatican Commission investigating the validity of Medjugorje. No need to investigate something that has already been ruled a fraud. Millions of people have visited Medjugorje, including thousands of priests. The Pope could end that any time he wants. And in fact–if Medjugorje is a known fraud–he SHOULD end it. There is one and only one reason why the Pope hasn’t. The message of Medjugroje… prayer, fasting, reconciliation, peace, conversion, and faith… have transformed the lives of countless people who have been touched spiritually in a powerful way.

            • NotNow

              Then why is the Vatican not listening to the ordinary? Why is the Vatican–and not the local ordinary–running the Vatican Commission investigating Medjugorje. We both know the reason. The Congregation for the Doctrine of Faith has officially proclaimed that Bishop Peric’s statement “non constat de supernaturalitate” is merely an expression of his person opinion which is not binding on anyone. Once again I am forced to choose between the Church’s position, as expressed through Cardinal Bertone as Secretary of the Congregation of the Doctrine of Faith, and the position of rabble rousers like Mark Shea. I am going with the Church. The Church’s position on this is crystal clear. People are free to go to Medjugorje on pilgrimage, but must accept that the apparitions are not Church approved. And they should refrain from acting, speaking, and organizing events as if they are Church approved.

              • chezami

                Because the local ordinaries *asked* Rome to take over in the hope that deluded people like you will listen when Rome speaks.

          • chezami

            You are free to visit Auschwitz too. Doesn’t mean the Blessed Virgin is appearing there.

            • NotNow

              LOL! High quality argument!

          • smfm

            The local Ordinary has authority, but now because of the disgraceful disobedience of the seers & people it seems to have been taken over by higher powers.

      • smfm

        No i’m not, your missing the point, advocates of alleged shrines say well ” IT MUST BE TRUE ” look at how prayerful they are. If people think they can’t be duped then go read Magdalena of the cross, who misled the clergy for 40 years until it was eventually found out she sold her soul to satan. http://www.mysticsofthechurch.com/2011/12/sister-magdalena-of-cross-nun-who-made.html

        • NotNow

          Not missing any point. The correct position is clear. Not Church approved, but Catholics are free to go to Medjugorje as pilgrims. Since Medjugorje is about prayer, fasting, reconciliation, conversion, faith, and peace… it is a pretty popular spot.

          • chezami

            People are free to go to Auschwitz as pilgrims. So what?

          • smfm

            Medjugorje is rampant with disobedience not only by the alleged seers but by the people as-well. It is one of the most divisive places amongst Catholics that I know off. Families don’t talk to each other because of it, it has failed prophecies, Fatima on the other had has prophecies that have come true. The children of Medjugorje were doing something they shouldn’t have been doing, then all of a sudden an apparition, the children of Garabandal were stealing apples, then all of a sudden St Michael allegedly appeared, Garabandal has failed prophecies. Disobedience is why we are in this mess in the first place. Deuteronomy 18: 22 Thou shalt have this sign: Whatsoever that same prophet foretelleth in the name of the Lord, and it cometh not to pass: that thing the Lord hath not spoken, but the prophet hath forged it by the pride of his mind: and therefore thou shalt not fear him.

  • NotNow

    Didn’t realize that the validity of Medjugorje required the solemn proclamation of one Mark Shea. There are so many things wrong with this article who has time to touch on them all? The great irony is that Mark commits the very offence that he is ranting against. The same way that it is wrong for people to act and talk like Medjugorje is a church approved apparition, it is equally wrong to proclaim it a fraud.

    Mark is way ahead of the church which doesn’t seem to bother him. Fatima happened in 1917 but was not deemed worthy of belief until 1930. These things take time. Do I know if Our Blessed Mother is really appearing to the visionaries? No I do not. Does Mark know? No he does not. Why does Mark feel it necessary to give his opinion on the personal spiritual life of other Catholics? Let’s be honest; it is none of his business whether private individuals take a pilgrimage to Medjugorje or not.

    Personally, I haven’t been there yet. Although I do hope to go. I won’t be seeking out the approval of Mark Shea before I do. If Satan really is behind the phenomena, very strange that he spends all his time talking about prayer, confession, faith in Jesus, fasting, conversion, and forgiveness. We can’t judge the validity of the apparitions; it will have to wait for Rome to give its final ruling. But we can pass judgment on the fruits of Medjugorje which are overwhelmingly positive. I am no master at discernment, but if I was discerning the fidelity to the church of Medjugorje versus Mark Shea… I know which one I would go with.

    • HornOrSilk

      No. It is never wrong to reject an unapproved apparition. You fail.

      • NotNow

        Wrong. You think to not accept it means you have to reject it. Wrong and wrong. I don’t accept Medjugorje as a valid apparition, but I don’t reject it either. We don’t know if it valid or not. Nor do you or Mark Shea.

        • NotNow

          By your misguided reasoning… there should have been NO pilgrims flocking to during and after the appartitions until 1930 if Catholic were duty bound to reject it until the Church accepted it.

        • HornOrSilk

          You still don’t get it. We don’t have to accept any apparition. We can reject those not approved. Reject. Literally. We don’t have to wait for an official statement to reject.

          • NotNow

            But so what. You could have equally rejected Fatima, Lourdes, Guadalupe, etc. during the big gap in time between when those events happened and when they were determined by the Church to be worthy of belief. No doubt there were people like you guys running around in 1922 screaming that Fatima was a fraud. That would have been foolish in 1922, and it is equally foolish now in regards to Medjugorje. There is a difference between personally not accepting an apparition, and globally condemning it as a fraud, something the Church has never done. The Church is not going to say anything official until the apparitions are over. Period. Until then, people are free to visit Medjogorje and experience the undeniable spiritual gifts that flow from the place. Shea is over reaching on this issue, and might I add, in an extremely uncharitable way.

            • chezami

              But I would not have done so. You might want to ask why.

              • NotNow

                Why would anybody care about your personal opinion on a private revelation?

            • HornOrSilk

              We can reject Fatima, even now.

              • NotNow

                Sure you can reject Fatima… but you can’t call it a fraud! The whole point of the argument!

                • HornOrSilk

                  If you reject it, you call it a fraud – that is what rejecting it means.

                  • NotNow

                    Wrong again. You are on a roll. Many, many people on their way to being Catholic do not yet accept Jesus as the Son of God. They aren’t saying he is, and they aren’t saying he isn’t. They don’t know. If you can’t understand the difference between not being sure about something (like the Divinity of Jesus) and aggressively proclaiming Jesus to be a Fraud, then you are beyond help. Medjugorje is the same. Proclaiming as a fraud a site/apparition that the Church tells people they are free to visit, is nothing more than you substituting your opinion for the opinion of the Church. Nothing more than unchecked P-R-I-D-E!

                    • HornOrSilk

                      Rejection is not the same thing as ignorance. Saying “I don’t know” is not rejection. Saying “it isn’t” is rejection. Please stop making yourself look incompetent now.

                    • NotNow

                      I guess you are beyond help! If you want to be a Bishop and run the spiritual life of people, go to seminary, become a priest, and get promoted to Bichop, but even then remember you are only sheppard to people under your care, and not the Universal Church, which is under the care of the Pope. If you want to sheppard the entire people of God, become Pope, and then your opinion on Medjurgore will be of great interest to me and everyone else. Until then, stop fraudulently spouting off nonsense that makes no sense, and is irrelevant anyway.

                  • frank

                    The Church has deemed Fatima worthy of belief, therefore you cannot definitively call it a fraud without calling into question the judgement of the Church.

        • chezami

          I know it’s not valid and I reject it. You’ll have to deal with that fact as best you can.

    • chezami

      It’s not wrong to call it a fraud. Just watch me: it’s a fraud.

  • isabel Kilian

    Wow! You sound as if you believe yourself infallible!! I have always had a healthy respect regarding the bloggers on the internet version of National Catholic Register but for several years now many of them have begun to think themselves the magisterium itself! Before anything is proclaimed by the Church they “infallibly” condemn it! LOL What hypocrisy and enormous embarrassement Mark Shea is to the Faithful! Don’t go away mad, just go away.

    • LSpinelli

      Mark isn’t saying he’s infallible. He’s going by the rulings of the local bishops and the Vatican’s shutting down Medj tours in the United States.

      Don’t people read the CCC (I’m specifically referring to paragraph 67) and/or use discernment any more?

      • isabel Kilian

        “Now one of the things Spirit Daily and its considerable readership have chased after for far too long is the fraud that is Medjugorje–a fraud that will *never ever ever* be approved by the Church. ”
        Sounds like he thinks himself a Wizard or somthing. As of now the Church has not made a ruling on Medjugorje. Mark needs to accept that and patiently wait until it does so. Until then Catholics are permitted to believe in the alleged Apparitions and for him to say that they will never, ever be approved, is definitely acting as if he is certain of something one can not be certain of. Perhaps Mark can see the future or that many of us dare not to proclaim.

        • chezami

          The Church has made a ruling. From the local ordinary. The problem is the Medjugorje frauds have ignore their bishops and suckered a lot of people, so the bishops kicked it up stairs to Rome.

          • Isabel Kilian

            There is no official ruling regarding the authenticity of the alleged Medjugorje apparitions. To say so is to be mistaken. Be patient and grateful for the beautiful fruits which no one can deny.

            • chezami

              Beautiful fruits can be found in Auschwitz and salt mines. Doesn’t mean the Blessed Virgin is appearing there. Medjugorje is a fraud.

              • Eimeara Volodchenko

                Exactly. The rosary promises great graces to those pray. And in my home I pray but the Madonna is not appearing there. The rosary in turn brings wonderful fruits.

            • HornOrSilk

              The bishop made an official ruling.

      • isabel Kilian
        • LSpinelli

          Crown of Stars isn’t a reliable source. It’s a pro-Medj enthusiast’s blog. One won’t find negative commentary there even if Rome rules against it.

      • frank

        The Vatican has never called the visionaries ‘frauds’, and the Medjugorje phenomenon a ‘fraud’. Mr. Shea had definitively called the visionaries ‘frauds’ over and over and over and over and over. That is not in any way ‘discernment’ as you call it. It’s more like calumny.

        • Eimeara Volodchenko

          Oh come off it,. just because someone criticizes your precious visionaries you are up in arms !! Why do you Medjugorje supporters get so aggressive and insultingwhen someone criticizes the visionaries and translate it into calumy/ slander? Coming back to your previous comment about me saying Mirjana is a show off, compare her to St Bernadette who did not travel the world giving speeches or running guesthouses and taking pilgrims in.. Yes they have to make a living but they could get an ordinary job that doesn’t involve money making out of the apparitions. Sorry but Mirjana and co are attention seekers. She is not exactly living in seclusion like Sister Lucia was or St Bernadette was she? No one said she had to be a nun but living in secrecy somewhere is the way to go.

          • frank

            “precious visionaries”…
            Mirjana is a show off…
            Sounds like you are the one who is aggressive and insulting, not to mention extremely condescending. And might I also add presumptuous. I never once said that I was a Medjugorje supporter. I do not have a definite opinion on the apparitions. But I am open to the possibility that they are authentic. Also, I try not to compare the visionaries to anyone else, including St. Bernadette and Sister Lucia, neither of whom had cameras following their every move. And St. Bernadette did not travel around the world making speeches because she entered the convent out of obedience to her parish priest, which was very common at the time. It also would have been extremely difficult because they didn’t have airplanes back then! And many of the same criticisms and judgements that you have so very authoritatively and self-righteously proclaimed (and might I add aggressively and insultingly) against the Medjugorje visionaries were also in fact hurled at St. Bernadette and Sr. Lucia. (Attention seekers, showing off etc.) And your criticisms of the visionaries for not having an ‘ordinary’ job are silly. In light of their fame, it would be almost impossible for any of them to have an ‘ordinary’ job. That is precisely why many visionaries in former times did in fact enter convents and monasteries. Also, you say ‘secrecy’ is the way to go. But according to the writings of the Saints, the Will of God is the way to go. And the Will of God is unique for each and every one of us. That is why it is such a danger to judge. You accuse the visionaries of lacking humility, and yet when someone calls you out on your lack of humility, you say that your humility is not up for discussion. What total hypocrisy! Oh, and in all charitableness, I did not mean in any way to call you my sweetheart. You may be a sweetheart, but you are most definitely not MY sweetheart. I am not much on back-and-forth blogging, and so I will not respond further to your venomous and vitriolic comments. I am indeed shaking the dust from my feet. I have spoken my peace and I hope you find yours.

            • Eimeara Volodchenko

              Given the fact that you slam me for criticising them it seems logical to conclude that you do support them. As for my humility or lack of it, with all due respect I am not the one claiming to see Our Lady so I don’t know how this could be up for discussion. As for the visionaries getting ordinary jobs – a bit late in the day for that admittedly but they certainly could have in the beginning. The Beauraing visionaries were nurses and teachers and married engineers or civil servants. I am not the only one to question the behaviour of the Medjugorje six – no airplanes in the time of Bernadette but I don’t remember reading about her taking coaches around France… And the vocation was her choice. Both she and Lucia shunned attention – when visitors to the convent or house called they would run away or pretend that the requested visionary was elsewhere …
              As for Lucia, she was around when airline travel was becoming popular but she didn’t travel when she was young enough to.
              Mariette Beco of Banneux never became a nun but shunned the limelight and went incognito to the grotto. St Mariam Baouardy , who had visions of Jesus and Mary was asked one day which one was she, and she pointed to another nun.
              I don’t understand what is aggressive or insulting about my comments… All I am saying is that genuine visionaries shun the limelight and do not conjure the Madonna on demand.
              If you really see the Madonna, then money etc would not be important to you. As Bernadette said, ” if you saw her once, you would die to see her again”.
              No one is saying that the Med. Six should join the convent but why can’t they live in a remote area or another country and be incognito? When Sister Lucia went to a boarding school, her name was changed. Same when she had to take convalescence in a private home in 1932

  • Eimeara Volodchenko

    I don’t think he believes himself infallible and why should he go away? He is just saying it is unlikely that the apparitions are to be approved on the basis that in the past the bishops concluded that there was no evidence that the Virgin was appearing and there are recent reports that Pope Francis has raised doubts about the visionaries claims. What is wrong with using past conclusions etc to give an opinion? As for him using the word fraud at least he backs everything up with evidence – Father Pavich’s testimony and Ivan Dragicevic’s payment of $800.000 mortgage in a year – document on Marco Corvaglia’s website. Detraction and claumny not relevant here as one is entitled to question the visionaries claims and make allegations with evidence as with any seer in any age there is a possibility of fraud/money making.
    Notnow, no one is saying that Medjugorje needs the approval of just Mark or anyone else. You defenders always say that to those who doubt. Maybe you all have doubts yourself and don’t like us critics bring home the possible truth?

  • Roxanne Carrasco

    I think the man doth protest too much…..You should not condemn what the Church has not yet given a final ruling. Be humble. Pray more and speak less, especially hateful words. Our Lord was also much calumniated in His time. Let the Holy Spirit breathe discernment; do not stifle the Holy Spirit. He will give the final ruling.