Sam Rocha on “Moronic Manhood” over at Ethika Politika

It’s worth reading.

Just about everything that is wrong with MAN! culture was summed up for me inadvertently several years ago by Manly Evangelical pastor Marc Driscoll when he said “I cannot worship a guy I can beat up.” I’m sure these manly men felt exactly the same way:

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  • Dave G.

    Like all things, I think the extremes of MAN culture are in many ways the reaction to the extremes of FemiMan culture. I still remember that editorial my Maureen Dowd (no right wing radical there) so many years ago. Women want something worth being equal to. Stop being jelly fish sissies. Unfortunately, some then go the other extreme, as is so often the case.

    • HornOrSilk

      No, because the “extremes” of the “man culture” harken more to the rugged individualism and social darwinian thought which promotes survival of the strongest, a view which is in accord with a certain line of American political thought which is anti-thetical to Christian teaching (which shows wisdom in foolishness, strength in weakness)

      • Dave G.

        Well there are lines of thought that are antithetical to Christian teaching in many areas, including the opposite extreme that women rock but men suck. And it’s not confined to America of course. Both extremes are a problem.

      • IRVCath

        Which is largely born of a misplaced, inaccurate nostalgia (most small towns in history act a lot like, well, small towns). Mountain men aside, frontier America was not that individualistic.

  • Jared Clark

    Driscoll seems to have confused bullying with masculinity

    • PalaceGuard

      Basically, he has lovingly embraced all the stereotypes of men promulgated by radical misanthropic feminism as true.Which shows the depth of damage done to society by an absence of fer-real male role models in the modern family.

  • Pete the Greek

    I’ve never liked the MAN! culture thing. Unfortunately, my primary reason is not the best: it is obsessed with SPORTS!!!! I can’t stand watching sports on TV and get REALLY sick of people assuming that I must LOVE FOOOOOTTTBBALLLL!!!!!

    • Dave G.

      Which is strange, because I’m a living testament to the fact that you don’t have to be part of the MAN! culture to love football. :)

      • Pete the Greek

        Well, I should be more specific:

        If a bunch of people are getting together to play football in the park or a backyard, I’ll play, sure! Same with most sport related activity with friends. I just can’t stand watching it on TV. Of course, I don’t like watching TV in general, so maybe that plays in with it.

        Funny, I love to spear hunt and run a 3 gun course, but I’m not ‘manly’ because I’m not a sports fan. 😛

        • Marthe Lépine

          Do you mean that it is more “manly” to sit on a couch and watch other (very well paid) people play on a field?

    • http://janalynmarie.blogspot.com/ Beadgirl

      Heh. There are a few fathers in our neighborhood who try to engage Mr. Beadgirl on the topic of baseball. But he can’t stand sports either, and would rather talk about opera. Meanwhile, I’d love to have someone to talk to about the sport, but I’m a girl, and I don’t think these guys know how to talk to girls who aren’t their wives or mothers.

      • Dave G.

        Strange neighborhood. I love talking to my wife about sports, and in baseball – even though I played the sport – she can usually run circles around me, especially when it comes to the Reds.

        • http://janalynmarie.blogspot.com/ Beadgirl

          I found it a little strange myself. But then, I always had lots of guy friends, and tended to run in unconventional circles, but this neighborhood I now live in is much more traditional.

    • Dan C

      Man! Culture in its rapid resurrection in the 1980’s became focused on the three b’s: beer, babes, and ball. That was it. Christian evangelicalism struggled to square the circle of promoting that and still manage Christian values. I wish them luck on that.

      Catholics as they got closer to evangelicals started listening to this stuff. It has added little to Catholic America.

      At the same, we see the opposites of Man! Culture on the Catholic left: Dan Berrigan, Jeff Dietrich, Scott Schaffer-Duffy, Greg Boyle inhabit zip codes and prisons that are in fact some of the most highly dangerous areas of America without Man! Culture. Nothing even close.

      Due to the Catholic American apartheid however, they have little impact on the Catholic right where the Man! Culture conversations seem prevalent.

    • Bill

      I love sports, especially football, and hate everything else about man culture.

  • The Next to Last Samurai

    I have seen pictures of Reverend Driscoll. I am fairly sure that a Jewish carpenter who had no power tools and did heavy manual labor all day, a guy who threw money changers and their equipment out of the temple singlehandedly, could easily kick Driscoll all around the mega church parking lot.

    • Pete the Greek

      Plus, if you believe the devil, Jesus doesn’t fight fair!

  • Elmwood

    If people are mysteries, no reason “maleness” and “women-ness” wouldn’t also be. Though, I find chris crocker to be crossing a line somewhere and because it is important for boys to know how to be “men” and girls how to be “women”, it doesn’t mean all men need to act like meat-head jocks and women like ditzy high school cheerleaders.

    But I don’t get what the thrill would be of getting hugged by Janet Reno and would much prefer getting hugged by Kate Upton, as should all “MEN”.

  • SteveP

    I think where the article misses in its critique, much to its detriment, is not acknowledging chivalry as the authentic expression of manhood of a disciple of Christ. Protecting the dispossessed – widows and orphans in OT terms – by mercifully just action, is this not the fulfillment, by Grace, of “no greater love hath he . . .”?
    .
    Put another way, “MAN! Culture” is not a culture but yet another identity in an identity sodden city. As it is a self-identified identity it can be rejected out of hand. One’s name, one’s identity, has been tattooed on God’s hand and that is the real identity.

  • Tim in Cleveland

    That was one of the dumbest articles I’ve ever read on the internets in some time. The only thing I took away from it was that the author had gay friends and was well read in the classics.

    One thing can be said for all the villainous promoters of masculinity that the author cites: their ideals have a clarity which the article lacks. Michael Voris has his faults, but at least you know what he’s trying to say. Not so much for Sam Rocha.

    • Elmwood

      yep, sam probably likes to think of himself as “sensitive” unlike the masses of men who aren’t comfortable with other men open mouth kissing or movies about cowboys having romantic relationships. not sure what his point was other than the obvious fact that being masculine shouldn’t be equated with being a jerk or bully.

      the part that bothered me the most was that he seemed to be offended by priests who were not effeminate, or at least avoided acting that way.


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