More Evidence that Creationists are Charlatans

Cdbren has been a persistent commenter on some threads about creationism here, insisting that creationists are not liars and denying his ignorance about science even when it has been blatant.

While the ability to edit comments after the fact is useful both for correcting inadvertent mistakes and for covering up evidence of one’s major blunders, one should not be misled to think that evidence will not persist of one’s having edited a post or comment after the fact.

A case in point: Cdbren at one point posted the following comment:

Since this illustrated ignorance of basic biology of a sort that demonstrates that Cdbren lacks any adequate basis for evaluating evolutionary biology’s claims and evidence, I have unsurprisingly pointed to this on occasion.

Today, Cdbren responded to my mentioning this point again with the following comment:

I went to look for the comment to link to it, and sure enough, it had been edited to now read as follows:

Young-earth creationists and cdesign proponentsists do this sort of thing all the time. They try to spin the results of scientific investigation to create unjustified denial, in the process they show their ignorance of even the basics of the scientific field they are discussing, undermining their credibility. And rather than admit that they should be learning about science rather than pontificating arrogantly about it, they try to hide the evidence of their gaffes.

If any person promoting young-earth creationism or intelligent design tells you they are a Christian or a moral person or anything else of the sort, I hope that you will tell them that actions speak louder than words, and will not allow yourself to be duped either by their false claims about science or their false claims about their own honesty.

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  • Michael Wilson

    As a rational person I find this sort of thing mind bogeling. If you have to resort to lies to defend your position, why do you maintain it? I find this same attitude with the other pseudo-science commonly dealt with here. It is illuminating though since it shows the process that creats all the psuedo Pauline letters and and other ancient forgaries, my truth is so important I must lie to make sure people believe it.

  • rmwilliamsjr

    i don’t really think most YECists believe they are lying. 
    i think cdbren is genuinely confused and rather ignorant, and surprisingly resistant to change in the face of conflicting evidence.

    i’m watching one other YECists take on the world thread at 
    the same thing is happening there. the facts/evidence seem to disappear in the face of reputation attacks. i find the science fascinating, i appreciate how much new stuff i can learn following such a thread, i regret when it falls apart because of how people argue rather that what they argue.

  • David Iach

    While I am a evolutionist myself I do think you are a bit unfair with the creationist side. Not when it comes to science, but rather when you accuse them of dishonesty. In my experience most creationists are rather ignorant but honest than dishonest charlatans. The solution, in my mind at least, is education, not prosecutions.

    • Kenneth Gilmore

      I’d like to think it’s simply a case of ignorance rather than dishonesty, but my experience has been that even after repeatedly correcting special creationists, they continue to parrot the same endlessly repeated points. After the fifth or sixth iteration, mendacity rather than ignorance becomes the more likely explanation for such behaviour.

  • Chiefley

    I find that there are two kinds of creationist misrepresentations.   Most creationists actually do believe the stuff they are saying.  And even in their denial of obvious facts they are still being sincere in their own beliefs.    I don’t admire this, in fact it is a kind of delusion or self-delusion.

    But what bothers me much more than that are the professional exploiters of naive creationists who publish material in the popular press, put out DVDs and such for profit, knowing full well that they are lying for Jesus.

    • rmwilliamsjr

      knowing full well that they are lying for Jesus. 

      it would be interesting to hear that someone like ken ham confessed this on their deathbed. there has been at least one successful child evangelist that deconverted and told all, it would be nice to see a high level YECist teacher come out and admit their fraud.