Satan? Or merely Hitler?

TEAM SATAN

Susan Tyrell, Bound4Life:

The kingdom of Satan is united, which is why, for this season, it’s successful.

Randall Terry, founder of Operation Rescue:

Obama supports infanticide in America, and forced abortion China. He is patently evil in his efforts to kill the innocent.

Troy Newman, Operation Rescue:

It’s an abortion facility and often times the abortionist takes every drop of money that he can get out of that to feed sometimes his drug addiction habit, his sexual abuse habit, or any other number of worldly habits that they got themselves into, often times gambling, and it just takes every dollar out of it. … This is truly a demonic enterprise.

Phil Bryant, governor-elect of Mississippi:

Bryant went so far as to compare the issue to the Holocaust and the Jews of Nazi Germany “being marched into the oven,” because of “the people who were in charge of the government at that time.” He described the ballot measure as “a battle of good or evil,” and warned, “the evil dark side that exists in this world is taking hold. And they’re saying, what we want you to be able to do is continue to extinguish innocent life. You see, if we could do that, Satan wins.”

TEAM HITLER

Phil Bryant, governor-elect of Mississippi:

Bryant went so far as to compare the issue to the Holocaust and the Jews of Nazi Germany “being marched into the oven,” because of “the people who were in charge of the government at that time.” He described the ballot measure as “a battle of good or evil,” and warned, “the evil dark side that exists in this world is taking hold. And they’re saying, what we want you to be able to do is continue to extinguish innocent life. You see, if we could do that, Satan wins.”

Jim Garlow, Renewing America’s Leadership:

I have taken people on tours of the concentration camps in Germany on church history tours across Europe, and when I take them to Buchenwald, I say I want you to know that someday, someday in America, people are going to tour the abortuaries, and they’re gonna say: you’re not gonna believe what actually happened to other human beings in these places.

Herman Cain claims Planned Parenthood founded for ‘planned genocide’“:

“When Margaret Sanger – check my history* – started Planned Parenthood, the objective was to put these centers in primarily black communities so they could help kill black babies before they came into the world,” Cain said during a talk in Washington, D.C., at the Heritage Foundation, a conservative group. “It’s planned genocide.”

A popular analogy that doesn’t always work“:

Is legalized abortion akin to the Nazi Holocaust?

The analogy is a standard talking point among abortion opponents, and a new half-hour video by a prominent Christian apologist has gone viral by making the comparison more explicit and graphic than any anti-abortion sound bite on the evening news.

– – – – – – – – – – – –

* OK. See: “A Woman with a Plan: The real story of Margaret Sanger

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This ain't 'fake news.' It's the lying game of witch-hunts & Satanic baby-killers
  • http://twitter.com/FearlessSon FearlessSon

    I remember when some pro-life group paid my college to include a little phamplet in its student newspaper called “The Silent Killer”.  You can probably guess what it was about. 

    It had students left and right sifting through the freshly printed newspapers to find those phamplets, then dump them in recycle bins throughout the school.  The sense of rage was palpable.  The student government actually had to take notice and issue an explaination.  Repeated letters to the editor followed, arguing not against the school allowing a pro-life voice to print in the student paper, but allowing a pro-life voice to print material that was demonstratably wrong about abortion. 

  • http://leftcheek.blogspot.com Jas-nDye

    “The Silent Killer”

    Farts?

  • Persia

    A guy who wrote for my college paper once had an editorial that basically boiled down to “I really hate Greg Lougainis.” I held it and said, “look, you can edit this editorial and I’ll run it next issue if you really care this much about the issue, but you’ve also said things about HIV/AIDS that are literally not true. Take out the untrue stuff and if you really want to publish it, I’ll put it in.” He never resubmitted it. I wasn’t sure if it was because he thought I was a jerk and would never run it, or he thought better of it, but I didn’t really care.

  • Lori

    An entire editorial about hating Greg Lougainis? Why? Was GL being used as an example of non-disclosure of HIV status or was the issue winning while gay or some similar “offense”? I don’t get it. 

  • Persia

    It was obstensibly about his non-disclosure. I think it probably had more to do with the author’s personal feelings about homosexuality than that, though (and I doubt the author even realized it).

  • http://apocalypsereview.wordpress.com/ Invisible Neutrino

    I can’t believe how anti-abortion groups (“pro-life”, what a laugh!) have shown there is no depth they will not plumb in using manipulatively incendiary rhetoric to try and make their points.

    Sad thing is, they’ve already lost this “debate”. They just refuse to admit it. If they’ve had to stoop to grossly inappropriate comparisons to the Holocaust to try and make their point – the point is utterly invalid.

  • EriktR

    I wouldn’t go so far as to say they’ve “lost” the debate. They’ve basically managed to shut off access to abortion in large stretches of the country — at least for the underprivileged. Their incendiary rhetoric might be unconvincing (pro-life measure in Mississippi was crushed in large part by overwhelming opposition from black voters yesterday even after they pulled the “Abortion was invented to murder black people” stunt) but they’ve also figured out that just piling on the red-tape and bureaucratic entanglements is enough to pretty much get rid of abortion even if it’s still legal. The best part of it for them is that they can still use it to raise money for their campaigns!

  • Anonymous

    I say I want you to know that someday, someday in America, people are
    going to tour the abortuaries, and they’re gonna say: you’re not gonna
    believe what actually happened to other human beings in these places.

    They were harassed and shamed by self-righteous asshats during what was already a horrible moment in their lives?  Or maybe he’s talking about the doctors who have been shot.

  • ljppkgfgs

    It’s an abortion facility and often times the abortionist takes every drop of money that he can get out of that to feed sometimes his drug addiction habit, his sexual abuse habit, or any other number of worldly habits that they got themselves into, often times gambling, and it just takes every dollar out of it. … This is truly a demonic enterprise.

    So… are they saying that the only reason they have a problem with abortion is that the abortionists gamble? Are all organisations whose employees spend their wages on drugs/gambling/whatever demonic by default?

  • Anonymous

    Why would one have to waste time slandering the character of abortionists when you already believe that abortionists are literally mass-murderers? (P.S. answer may be obvious.)

  • http://apocalypsereview.wordpress.com/ Invisible Neutrino

    Guys like those anti-abortion assholes make me think of this picture (note description for context).

    http://imgur.com/gallery/MpAry

  • muteKi

    I like the comments to the effect of “Jesus loves you. But the guy wearing that jacket sure doesn’t.” Which really sums up a lot of the content on the blog quite nicely I’d say.

  • http://blog.carlsensei.com Carl

    The belief that one’s enemies are united and can be treated as such is the cause of a lot of self-imposed ignorance.

  • Reverend Ref

    I went to a fundraiser event for the local Crisis Pregnancy Center last month.  I have to admit that it was actually fairly well done and not adamantly in-your-face “abortion providers are all EVIL.”  And not once did they make a connection between abortion and the Holocaust.  The keynote speaker also made it a point to say that people on the other side needed to be treated with respect.

    I left when they got to the actual fund raising part.  Besides not having the money or the inclination to donate, it was already close to bedtime on a Saturday night for me (having to get up for that one day of work thing, dontcha know).

    Anyway . . . as I was leaving, one of the organizers of the event caught me and asked what I thought.  I stated my appreciation of the tone of the event, but also said that I would have a whole lot more respect for the pro-life group if they, in fact, were pro-life and not just pro-birth.  Why not spend as much effort on things like pre- and post-natal care?  Or early child care?  Or guaranteed paid maternal/paternal leave?  Or a national health care system?  Or calling for abortion clinic bombers to be arraigned as terrorists?

    So while pro-choice myself (but also wanting to set some limits on abortion), I am happy to say that the local pro-life clinic is not among any of the asshat groups and actually does have a relatively good system in place for supporting pregnant women with education and clothing and the like.

  • Lonespark

    I think many of them do, and are therefore pretty good for people who share that belief system and are ambivalent about having a child right now because they are poor or feel unprepared.  I don’t know whether places like Planned Parenthood ever refer women to those types of places if they have complementary services?  But so much of that infrastructure is dedicated to deception about the alternatives that it would probably be a bad idea.

  • Madhabmatics

    I’m just gonna quote one of the posters passed out by Personhood USA people in the state of Mississippi, a place that is close to my heart.

    “Women who have borne a child conceived by rape testify that the baby is a blessing rather than a continuation of the assault”

    Just FYI if you are a woman in Mississippi and a baptist says “bless you,” you ought to be very suspicious of how he’s planning on delivering that blessing.

    With that in mind, I’d like to thank all the Mississippians who worked so hard to defeat this really dumb and vile amendment by working phone banks, driving people without transportation to the polls, never losing hope, and vandalizing prop-26 signs in really hilarious ways while completely wasted. We who don’t have to worry about our birth control being banned salute you!

  • ako

    “Women who have borne a child conceived by rape testify that the baby is a blessing rather than a continuation of the assault”

    And clearly, they have the knowledge to confirm that this is true of all women who were pregnant by rape, and not at all something where individual experiences vary!  And there is absolutely no social pressure for a woman speaking words her child might eventually hear to tell a tidy “My baby is and always was a blessing!” story and gloss over any of the more painful and difficult aspects!  And there is no selection bias where only women who ultimately found the pregnancy a positive experience might feel comfortable talking to people who insist abortion is the greatest evil ever!  /sarcasm

  • http://www.nicolejleboeuf.com/index.php Nicole J. LeBoeuf-Little

    In reading about the defeat of the “personhood” amendment in Mississippi, I learned something appalling (not to be confused with “surprising”, please leave any more-jaded-than-thou eye-rolling at the door):

    Mississippi has only one clinic providing abortion services. One. For the whole state. AND A MANDATORY 24-HOUR WAITING PERIOD.

    Put the two together, and you have a situation that, for many women of little economic means, amounts to a de facto ban on abortion.

    So things still suck. A lot.

    But I’m glad they don’t suck worse! Thank you, Mississippi, for voting that amendment down!

  • Apocalypse Review

    Mississippi has only one clinic providing abortion services. One. For the whole state. AND A MANDATORY 24-HOUR WAITING PERIOD.

    (>_<)

    The one thing I find very repellent about those "mandatory" waiting periods and parental consent laws is that the only reason they even exist is to hinder access to abortion.

    With any luck, though, there will be continued progress on the provision-of-access front, slow as it may be right now. :

  • Lori

     With any luck, though, there will be continued progress on the provision-of-access front, slow as it may be right now. :  

    Recently the progress on provision of access has mostly been in the wrong direction. Kansas being the perfect example. Kansas used to have a whopping 3 clinics providing abortion services. Earlier this year they passed strict new licensing requirements that many people feared would make it the first state with no clinics at all. Instead the state licensed just one of the three clinics and joined Mississippi and South Dakota as single-provider states. 

  • http://twitter.com/FearlessSon FearlessSon

    The one thing I find very repellent about those “mandatory” waiting periods and parental consent laws is that the only reason they even exist is to hinder access to abortion.

    Even if that waiting period was not mandatory, it would still be pretty standard.  Typically a person who is considering an abortion goes in for a consultation with the doctor where the doctor can explain what is involved and they can ask questions.  If they want to continue with it, then they schedule an appointment to come back in the near future (often some other day the same week) and it will be done then.  

    Of course, this applies to virtually any semi-invasive medical procedure, not just abortions.  Heck, just getting a skin biopsy typically follows that process.  I think a big part of it is so that the patient does not feel pressured to act immediately.  If say they need to consult with their family or check their finances before committing to something, they have the opportunity to do that instead of being rushed through prematurely.  

  • Lori

    There are people who do not have the option of waiting 24 hours to have an abortion and clinics that are not required by law to have such a waiting period do not have them. The reality of abortion services in the US is that almost 90% of counties do not have a clinic. That means that for a high percentage of women going to a clinic involves taking time off of work and possibly a long drive. A mandatory waiting period doubles that. A woman with limited finances, no paid time off, no personal transportation and/or a need to keep the abortion private is not going to be able to manage that. 

    If she lives in a state with a small enough number of providers, a mandatory waiting period could require an overnight stay in the town or city with the clinic. That’s not going to work for many people (see above). The supposedly “reasonable” waiting period is a huge burden to women, most of whom are under a significant time constraint. That’s why clinics who care about women don’t do that shit unless they’re forced to. 

    IME, any waiting period associated with other low-risk medical procedures has less to do with not pressuring the patient than with the fact that the procedure is conducted at a facility or by a different doctor and therefore requires a separate appointment. There’s also the issue of waiting for insurance approvals. (Neither of those issues apply in the case of abortion.) On those occasions where I’ve needed a procedure that could be done in the doctor’s office they’ve just taken care of it on the spot. The would have waited if I hadn’t want to have it done right away, but they didn’t force me wait. 

    The same is true for abortion providers. If a woman needs more time to consider her options they let her take all the time she needs (while reminding her of whatever legal deadlines she’s facing). Contrary to the picture painted by anti-choice groups, abortion providers aren’t the ones pressuring women about what decision to make about their pregnancies.  

    Women seeking reproductive health information have agency and it’s up to them to decide how much time they need to make a decision. Mandating a waiting period is infantalizing and really nothing more than a means to block women from exercising their right to make choices about what happens to their own bodies. 

  • http://twitter.com/FearlessSon FearlessSon

    There are people who do not have the option of waiting 24 hours to have an abortion and clinics that are not required by law to have such a waiting period do not have them. The reality of abortion services in the US is that almost 90% of counties do not have a clinic. That means that for a high percentage of women going to a clinic involves taking time off of work and possibly a long drive. A mandatory waiting period doubles that. A woman with limited finances, no paid time off, no personal transportation and/or a need to keep the abortion private is not going to be able to manage that. 

    Even someone who needs to travel a long distance to have an abortion preformed needs to call first to schedule the appointment.  A reasonable doctor would at least be willing to conduct a consultation over the phone before the person goes in for it.  A medical procedure is not something one can just get in line for like fast food.  

    I do not mean to imply that I in any way support the twenty-four hour waiting period, and I apologize if I gave that impression.  I the point that I was trying to illustrate was more along the lines of “the mandatory waiting period is a redundant addition that serves more as a statement of values / attempt to shame the patient than it does a practical limitation.”  

  • Lori

     Even someone who needs to travel a long distance to have an abortion preformed needs to call first to schedule the appointment.  A reasonable doctor would at least be willing to conduct a consultation over the phone before the person goes in for it.  A medical procedure is not something one can just get in line for like fast food.  

     

    You do generally make an appointment in advance. The question is do you need one appointment or two? A consultation can not be done over the phone. Clinic workers can answer basic questions on the phone, but the pre-procedure consult needs to be done in person where they can better assess the woman’s state of mind and confirm that she has seen and understand all the material about all her options. 

     I the point that I was trying to illustrate was more along the lines of “the mandatory waiting period is a redundant addition that serves more as a statement of values / attempt to shame the patient than it does a practical limitation.”  

    And my point was that a mandatory waiting period is not in any way redundant. It’s the only reason that a clinic would force a woman to come in twice in order to get an abortion. The waiting period is a statement of values, but it is also a practical attempt to limit the number of women who can exercise their legal right to chose.  

  • Anonymous

    Not gonna lie, “abortuaries” is a pretty great word — if anyone knows a punk band in need of a name, take note!

    Jim Garlow probably also thinks that Planned Parenthood workers all come from Abortugal and write their memos in Abortuguese.

  • http://twitter.com/FearlessSon FearlessSon

    Not gonna lie, “abortuaries” is a pretty great word — if anyone knows a punk band in need of a name, take note!

    “Abortuary Garden” would be an awesome name for a progressive metal band. 

  • Anonymous

    “Abortuary Station” an award winning punk/metal/bluegrass band

  • http://plantsarethestrangestpeople.blogspot.com/ mr_subjunctive

    And study aborticulture?

  • muteKi

    Geez, if Cain is so worried about abortion killing black babies you think he might want to do something to increase the standard of living for the black people in poverty who are getting these abortions, so that they might have the time, money, etc. in order to actually raise the babies.

    But noooooooooooooooooooooo…

  • nirrti

    I live in Tennessee, a seriously red state. One common saying down here is, “Well, at least we’re not Mississippi.”

  • Anonymous

    That’s a pretty common sentiment throughout the South.

  • Lonespark

    We used to say that in Arizona, regarding the schools and a few other things. But then it got worse.

  • Anonymous

    Funny, they have that statement in Alabama as well.

  • Another Chris

    I want to say something witty, but the sheer contempt for truth in the quotes Fred provided makes me see red.

  • Andrew Galley

    While in no way an organization of “genocide”, Planned Parenthood did have some unfortunate eugenic principles involved in its founding. Has basically nothing to do with the work that it does today, though.

  • http://twitter.com/jocelynk414 Jocelyn Koehler

    Good New Yorker article on Sanger this week actually — she flirted with the Eugenics movement, but never officially allied with it. She was too much of a Socialist to agree with most of what the eugenics movement advocated.

  • http://guy-who-reads.blogspot.com/ Mike Timonin

    Good New Yorker article on Sanger this week actually

    Jill Lepore – she’s an amazing historian. http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2011/11/14/111114fa_fact_lepore That’s the abstract of the article – The New Yorker uses a pay wall. And she was on Fresh Air yesterday: http://www.npr.org/2011/11/09/142097521/how-birth-control-and-abortion-became-politicized

  • http://stealingcommas.blogspot.com/ chris the cynic

    “Women who have borne a child conceived by rape testify that the baby is a blessing rather than a continuation of the assault”

    Pretty sure there are women who consider the abortion to have been a blessing.  Somehow I don’t think blessings are really all that convincing as arguments.

  • Lori

     It’s an abortion facility and often times the abortionist takes every drop of money that he can get out of that to feed sometimes his drug addiction habit, his sexual abuse habit, or any other number of worldly habits that they got themselves into, often times gambling, and it just takes every dollar out of it. … This is truly a demonic enterprise.  

    Just to get this out of the way—Mr Newman is doing what is known as making shit up. Anyone who thinks that being an abortion provider is a good way to make lots of money to pay for an addiction is probably too dumb to have made it through med school in the first place. 

    Human nature being what it is, I’m sure there are some providers who take the money they earn and spend it on gambling or sex or drugs, but that does not mean what Newman thinks it means about the “enterprise”. Since when is a job judged by the things employees spend their paychecks on? It’s not like abortion providers are stealing. They work, they get paid, they spend their money as the choose. No one has the right to tell another person what s/he can do with his/her money. That’s a fundamental Right Wing principle isn’t it?

    Maybe Mr Newman feels that it’s OK to criticize how abortion providers spend their pay because in his mind abortion should be illegal and it’s good and right to criticize the uses of the proceeds of crime. If so, someone needs to introduce him to Joe Jervas’ regular blog feature, “This Week in Holy Crimes”, where he gathers news reports of ministers, pastors, priests, rabbis, imams and other church leaders who have been arrested during the previous week*. The average post has at least a dozen reports and a very high percentage of them involve theft. Sometimes the stolen money was used to purchase the stereotypical huge house and expensive cars, but in plenty of cases it financed the habits the men & women of God “got themselves into”. Drugs, p0rn, keeping mistresses. gambling. You name it, if it’s a sin some church leader is stealing from his or her congregation to pay for it or cover it up. By Mr Newman’s own standards that makes the church a demonic enterprise, right? 

    *Joe doesn’t do this out of some nasty atheist hatred of god or the church or something. He started doing it in response to the lies Right Wing groups tell about QUILTBAG folks. It’s one of the ways that he pushes back against the dishonesty and hypocrisy that those groups spew against him and his community every day. 

    I think it’s also worth noting that he doesn’t work particularly hard on “This Week in Holy Crimes”. He has an automatic search set up to pull newspaper articles about arrests. So, if a crime committed by a person of the cloth s swept under the rub and no arrest occurs or an arrest occurs but doesn’t make the paper Joe doesn’t hear about. 

  • http://plantsarethestrangestpeople.blogspot.com/ mr_subjunctive

    “Women who have borne a child conceived by rape testify that the baby is a blessing rather than a continuation of the assault.”

    Women who have borne a child conceived by rape are probably under a certain amount of pressure to find a silver lining, especially if they didn’t have the option of Plan B or a safe early-term abortion. Just sayin’.

    EDIT: And that’s assuming that this claim is even true to begin with. No doubt some such women say this, but all of them?

  • Lori

      And that’s assuming that this claim is even true to begin with. No doubt some such women say this, but all of them?  

     

    I don’t think the claim is that all women who have born a child as a result of rape say that the baby is a blessing, but there’s a strong implication that they all should. 

    I’m pretty sure this is like the “pull yourself up by your bootstraps” thing. If anyone from a disadvantaged background is able to become rich and there’s no reason why they all couldn’t if they just worked hard enough. If any woman who had her rapist’s child considers that child a blessing then they’re no reason why all rape survivors couldn’t feel that way if they’d just stop being death-loving murderers and choose life. 

  • Münchner Kindl

    Maybe Fred would like to comment on this news item

    http://www.ajc.com/news/gwinnett/fetus-dolls-at-trick-1219703.html

    A church passed out fetus-dolls to small children trick-or-treating during Halloween.

    Joshua Edmonds, who told Channel 2 Action News he is a senior
    minister of the Christian social justice organization Project:Ignite,
    says he can’t understand why some people are upset with what he did.

    “We’re still trying to understand where the offense is at,” Edmonds
    said. “We think it’s with the assumption that when we talk about life in
    the womb, it’s about abortion. But the whole concept of the event, the
    point of the outreach, the point of the models (are) we should respect
    life.”

    I wonder if it’s coincidence that the name “Ignite” sounds so close to “Indignation”. Or maybe Fred could explain why being pro-life means igniting people = setting them on fire. (Witch burning for abortionists maybe?)

    And as usual the lying, not only not understanding why people (dare) to be offended by Christians, but also

    Edmonds said that his organization gave out candy, like other groups at
    the event, and dolls to those whose parents approved. He said he did not
    mention abortion and apologizes if some took offense.

    has been disproven by several accounts of shocked parents and grandparents who later found the dolls in their children’s tote bag – so they were handed out without parental approval. Because a 3 year old child trick-or-treating for candy needs to learn about how to respect life right now!

  • Anonymous

    Because a 3 year old child trick-or-treating for candy needs to learn about how to respect life right now!

    The kid squeezes the plastic fetus to try and make the candy come out, then shrugs and gives it to the dog to chew on.

    Project: Ignite has to have been aware that nearly all of the dolls from their stunt were going to end up in the trash can, which makes for some truly unfortunate subtext.

  • http://apocalypsereview.wordpress.com/ Invisible Neutrino

    Wait wait wait

    This Joshua Edmonds guy doesn’t understand why passing out fetus dolls is a bad idea? C’mon, if he knew anything at all it’s about kids going around dressed up as whatever, and getting loads of candy to munch on.

    It’s not about trying to make political statements by squicking people. God, if I’d gotten a fetus thing in my bag? I’d have been like EW GROSS and thrown it out and probably been put off my feed for a little bit. My parents probably would have been upset over hearing someone was passing out things like that to children and there’d probably be a groundswell of “That was such bad taste, what was that person THINKING?”

    *stares over glasses at Mr. Edmonds in the implied facepalm expression*

  • http://twitter.com/FearlessSon FearlessSon

    This Joshua Edmonds guy doesn’t understand why passing out fetus dolls is a bad idea? C’mon, if he knew anything at all it’s about kids going around dressed up as whatever, and getting loads of candy to munch on.

    “You bit the head off?”
    “I thought there would be delicious stem-cell filling inside.”  

  • Matri

    “You bit the head off?”
    “I thought there would be delicious stem-cell filling inside.”

    I am a bad, bad man for laughing so, so very hard at this.

  • http://profiles.google.com/marc.k.mielke Marc Mielke

    They need to do it RIGHT: red syrup-filled gummy fetuses!

  • Anonymous

    Get out of my head.

  • Lindenharp

    No one has quoted the Fourth Doctor yet?  Allow me to rectify that.

    The Doctor: Would you like a jelly baby?

    Leela: It’s true then. They say the Evil One eats babies.

    The Doctor: You mustn’t believe all they say.

    Clearly, they should have been handing out jelly babies, which are much closer in size and weight to a 12-week fetus.

  • http://profiles.google.com/marc.k.mielke Marc Mielke

    Heh. A church near my place advertises a youth group called “Youth on Fire”. I was disappointed when I caught the “…for Christ” in smaller type beneath it. 

    It sounded promising up until then. 

  • Steph

    Could the desire to push abortion issues and fetus pictures, dolls, etc. on young children be a way of making the child “pro-life”?  I was raised by a pro-choice parent who did not tell me about abortion until I would be sympathetic with the woman.  “Pro-life” people seem to tell their children about abortion at a very young age–when they cannot possibly understand things from the the woman’s point of view.

  • Rikalous

    Could the desire to push abortion issues and fetus pictures, dolls, etc.
    on young children be a way of making the child “pro-life”?  I was
    raised by a pro-choice parent who did not tell me about abortion until I
    would be sympathetic with the woman.  “Pro-life” people seem to tell
    their children about abortion at a very young age–when they cannot
    possibly understand things from the the woman’s point of view.

    An uncharitable person might suggest that they’re having the kids pick a side before said kids are old enough to think critically about the issue, in the hope that they never will.

  • Anonymous

    Also, the false disingenuousness in the stunt makes my blood boil.  “But *we* never mentioned abortion at all!  All we did was hand out fetuses.  If the first thing that comes to your mind is abortion, then what does that say about YOU?  Hmmmmmm?”  Jerks.  I want to reach through the monitor and smack them one.

  • Anonymous

    “Women who have borne a child conceived by rape testify that the baby is
    a blessing rather than a continuation of the assault”

    You know, that pisses me off more than being called Hitler and Satan (I’m fairly used to being called Hitler and/or Satan.)  I call Rick Perry a fascist on a fairly regular basis (luckily for the USA he’s a stupid fascist) so I won’t complain too much about overheated rhetoric – but this particular piece of right wing crap pisses me off.

    It takes the victim of a horrible crime and dehumanizes them again by insisting that their reactions to being victimized conform to your political agenda.  The “left” is not nearly as bad about the right as using this strategy.  It isn’t just stereotyping like “all teabaggers are racists” or objectifying the perpetrators of hatred like “virulently anti-gay pastors are all closet-cases.”

    It’s this whole level of “you were wronged, and you either feel this way about it or your feelings aren’t valid.”

    There should be a name for this particular sin – but I’m not aware of one – nor can I really think of an equivalent example that’s common from a more left-wing perspective.

  • muteKi

    Gaslighting? I guess it’s not a perfect descriptor (it’s not really a denial of reality but a deinal of the other’s feelings about it) but I’ve seen similar situations described as such.

  • http://www.nicolejleboeuf.com/index.php Nicole J. LeBoeuf-Little

    As a label for the phenomenon of using someone else’s suffering that way? Taking a real, living, feeling human being and using them, by virtue of their situation, and thereby all people in similar situation, as an unwilling/unwitting symbol of and support for your political agenda?

    I like the phrase “exploitative political appropriation.” There may be a better one, of course.

    (I encounter the phenomenon more often in the day-to-day in the form of “I know an [X] person who thinks [Y] is funny, so you can’t call it [X]ist.” You know, like the man at the aviation seminar who, still under the impression that airports are boyz clubs I guess, told some joke about how computers are like women in that men shouldn’t try to understand them; and he later protested that because his daughter laughed at it, us women present at the time were ridiculous for being offended by it.)

  • http://from1angle.wordpress.com emilyperson

    And, of course, there’s a slight chance that a woman who got pregnant from bein raped and had an abortion wouldn’t have a baby to call a “blessing” in the first place.

  • Lori

     And, of course, there’s a slight chance that a woman who got pregnant from bein raped and had an abortion wouldn’t have a baby to call a “blessing” in the first place.  

     

    The other problem with this nonsense it that it implies that not only should rape victims carry a pregnancy to term, they should also raise the child. That totally ignores the feelings and well-being of the children he claims to care so much about. Being that kind of “blessing” is not what most people would wish for. 

    I used to know someone who was the product of rape and had been raised by his birth mother. She wasn’t abusive, but he did not have a happy childhood. He had a lot of problems and I can still vividly remember his wife tearfully saying how much she wished his birth mother had given him up for adoption so he wouldn’t have had to carry the burden of knowing he was the result of rape and so he would have been raised by people who weren’t desperately trying to prove that they had “gotten past” a terrible experience. 

  • http://profiles.google.com/anoncollie Anon Collie

    Even when someone like me, who is anti-abortion (but not stupidly stubborn about it), points out that the modern movement ignores or actually goes for things that are not pro-life by any means (So pro death penalty, wars, torture and anti- social justice, sweatshops, fair trade coffee, etc.), I’m always, always countered with the argument that well, “There’s more babies being killed, so that stuff can wait.”

    No. No it can’t. Yes, I might agree that abortion is wrong, but you just can’t ignore the real human suffering caused by torture, war or death penalty, and not support human solidarity.

    Here, I’ll let Morbo tell it better. Morbo, the News Monster?

    PROLIFE DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY

  • http://thatbeerguy.blogspot.com Chris Doggett

    The problems with the “Pro-Life” stance don’t end there.

    “I think abortion is terrible and should be stopped!”

    “Well, we have 50 years of data showing that comprehensive sex education in public schools leads to fewer unplanned pregnancies and less abortions! Fewer abortions is good, right?”

    “I want abstinence-only sex education! Nothing else!!!”

    “Um… we have about 20 years of data showing that abstinence-only sex education causes more unplanned pregnancies, leads to higher abortion rates, and also leads to higher STI transmission rates for a higher health cost overall. Comprehensive sex ed includes a discussion of abstinence. Isn’t that OK?”

    “No! No showing kids how to put condoms on bananas! Bananas should only be used in a classroom to prove God’s design!”

    “Well, what about increasing access to contraception? We’ve got a whole lot of evidence to show that subsidies for birth control, especially aimed at teenagers and low-income adults, leads to a dramatic decrease in unplanned pregnancies and a lower abortion rate.”

    NO CONDOMS IN SCHOOLS! NO BIRTH CONTROL PILLS PAID FOR WITH TAXPAYER DOLLARS!

    “Well, what do you suggest?”

    BAN BIRTH CONTROL! THE PILL KILLS!”

    Somehow, I don’t think the “pro-life” movement really cares about reducing the number of abortions performed…

  • http://twitter.com/FearlessSon FearlessSon

    Somehow, I don’t think the “pro-life” movement really cares about reducing the number of abortions performed…

    What I have noticed is that there tends to be a trend of the most vocal pro-life people wanting to have their cake and eat it too.  Now, I will grant that there are several people who would prefer to live in a world without abortions and rationally look for pragmatic ways to reduce the amount of abortions that happen (some of those people are commenters here.)  But the loudest voices tend to be both anti-abortion and anti-sex, not realizing (or just not caring) that being the later tends to lead to more of the former.  You cannot want to restrict sex education and birth control without increasing abortion demand, and you cannot reduce abortion demand without allowing increased sex education and birth control.  There comes a time when a person who is sincere about their ideals has to confront this conflict and decide which issue is more important to them if they expect to make any concrete furthering of one or the other.  

    However, I think that a lot of their desire is more about declaring values than it is about achieving anything.  

  • Sgt. Pepper’s Bleeding Heart

    Now, I will grant that there are several people who would prefer to live
    in a world without abortions and rationally look for pragmatic ways to
    reduce the amount of abortions that happen

    ‘Several’ is quite the understatement…

  • http://apocalypsereview.wordpress.com/ Invisible Neutrino

    The problems with the “Pro-Life” stance don’t end there.

    Chris Doggett:

    You know, seeing it summarized like that in your post suggests to me that a great number of people in the anti-abortion movement who also hold rather conservative views on sex seem to have a tendency to magical thinking: That if they just wish something to be so and if the rules of society match those wishes, then all people will somehow just act exactly according to the wishful thinking.

    So when confronted with evidence that their wishful thinking (i.e. no sex-ed, no abortion clinics, etc) does not produce the desired results, their response is to amp it up and keep wishing harder.

    That’d be fine if it was just them wishing the Binky the Clown doll looked nicer or something, but the effects of this kind of magical thinking are felt by other people and it seems unreasonable to me to expect women who seek abortions and young people who have sex to be the bad guys and to just vanish in order to satisfy the perfect-world thinking of the anti-abortionists who don’t give a damn about babies except as an abstract idea of goodness.

  • http://jamoche.dreamwidth.org/ Jamoche

    That if they just wish something to be so and if the rules of society match those wishes, then all people will somehow just act exactly according to the wishful thinking.

    And if they don’t, well, Terry Pratchett nailed it: it’s “…the age-old problem: it wasn’t that you had the wrong kind of government, which was obvious, but that you had the wrong kind of people.
    As soon as you saw people as things to be measured, they didn’t measure up…”

  • http://brandiweed.livejournal.com/ Brandi

    That totally ignores the feelings and well-being of the children he claims to care so much about.

    What makes you think these kinds of pro-lifers care? Once it’s born it’s a welfare parasite dripping with Original Sin and not worthy of the consideration the holy and sinless pre-born get.

  • Lori

     What makes you think these kinds of pro-lifers care?  

    I don’t. Hence the phrasing “claims to care so much about”. 

  • Lori

    Regarding medical personnel pressuring patients: The only person I know personally who was ever seriously pressured by a doctor over a procedure was my friend K. He went for tests because he’s been having headaches and blurry vision. Unfortunately they discovered a brain tumor. When they told K the diagnosis they said that he needed to be admitted to the hospital immediately. He was understandably in shock and noted that his car was in short-term parking and asked if he could go move it. The answer was, “No”.* He ending up calling his brother to come get it. Trufax. 

    My point being that unlike crisis pregnancy center workers most doctors don’t pressure their patients unless it’s absolutely necessary. 

    *They weren’t being pissy. They were afraid that given the scary diagnosis and his obvious state of mind he’d leave the office, freak out and not come back. His situation was serious enough that they felt he couldn’t afford the delay. 

  • http://twitter.com/FearlessSon FearlessSon

    Regarding medical personnel pressuring patients: The only person I know personally who was ever seriously pressured by a doctor over a procedure was my friend K. He went for tests because he’d been having headaches and blurry vision. Unfortunately they discovered a brain tumor. When they told K the diagnosis they said that he needed to be admitted to the hospital immediately. He was understandably in shock and noted that his car was in short-term parking and asked if he could go move it. The answer was, “No”.* He ending up calling his brother to come get it. Trufax. 

    Well obviously when it an emergency service.  It was the same way when I got run over by a car some years ago.  I tried to tell the paramedics that I was going to be okay, I got up and crossed the street so my leg was not broken, and I needed to get the info of the guy who hit me, but they were adamant that they take me to the hospital anyway in case there was some hairline fracture which would snap if left untreated.  Only the second time I have been admitted to an emergency room, and the only time I was in a condition to debate the issue.  

    Actually though, this does bring up something that I have noticed about a lot of people in the pro-life crowd.  Namely, the assumption that any woman who has the abortion must have been pressured into getting it by a greedy doctor.  You see this in the rhetoric Fred posted up above, an assumption that any woman who had an unwanted child, even by rape, considers it a blessing, or that people are forced into abortion clinics regardless of their will.  

    Is there no room in their mental framework on the issue that some women would willing go to have an abortion performed?  Or that abortion doctors are simply there to satisfy a demand of the public, rather than to exploit that public?  That people who patronize an abortion clinic come there because, you know, it was their choice to have it done?  

  • http://twitter.com/FearlessSon FearlessSon

    I am just going to leave this here.  

    Did I mention the guy who plays that character is a reader of this blog?  

  • Anonymous

    About the fetus trick-or-treat dolls, it’s a classic strawman.  If they handed out little dolls of the embryo that is most likely to be in an elective abortion, it would be just a few inches and would be unrecognizable as anything human.  But of course they want people to believe that silly or evil women are just aborting pregnancies left and right during the third trimester.

  • Mystick358

    One of the key lessons that Prohibition taught us is that making something illegal doesn’t make it go away. It merely puts it into the hands of criminals. Prohibition made organized criminals fantastically wealthy.

    There will always be demand for marijuana. Or cocaine, or guns, or abortions. Making abortions more difficult to obtain or illegal will not miraculously cause all aborted pregnancies to vanish overnight.  If a woman truly wants to abort her pregnancy, she will do it. If it can’t be done safely, she’ll do it in a way that puts her health at risk. This is the sort of thing that turns rape victims in to suicides.

  • Münchner Kindl

    Here are two funny  but true articles about abortion:

    God kills millions of people through miscarriage than abortions do
    http://www.landoverbaptist.org/2010/march/miscarriagemonth.html

    God killed historically thousands of babies
    http://www.landoverbaptist.org/sermons/abortion.html

    Wonder how many “pro-lifers” (= anti-abortion fundies) know that? :)

  • Bificommander

    While not terribly nuanced or all-inclusive, I like how the Fokke & Sukke cartoon expressed their pro-choice argument. Luckily it’s been translated into english so:
    http://www.trippist.com/2006/10/take_a_stand.html

  • http://apocalypsereview.wordpress.com/ Invisible Neutrino

    Those names have to be deliberate, yes?