Satan? Or merely Hitler?

TEAM SATAN

Susan Tyrell, Bound4Life:

The kingdom of Satan is united, which is why, for this season, it’s successful.

Randall Terry, founder of Operation Rescue:

Obama supports infanticide in America, and forced abortion China. He is patently evil in his efforts to kill the innocent.

Troy Newman, Operation Rescue:

It’s an abortion facility and often times the abortionist takes every drop of money that he can get out of that to feed sometimes his drug addiction habit, his sexual abuse habit, or any other number of worldly habits that they got themselves into, often times gambling, and it just takes every dollar out of it. … This is truly a demonic enterprise.

Phil Bryant, governor-elect of Mississippi:

Bryant went so far as to compare the issue to the Holocaust and the Jews of Nazi Germany “being marched into the oven,” because of “the people who were in charge of the government at that time.” He described the ballot measure as “a battle of good or evil,” and warned, “the evil dark side that exists in this world is taking hold. And they’re saying, what we want you to be able to do is continue to extinguish innocent life. You see, if we could do that, Satan wins.”

TEAM HITLER

Phil Bryant, governor-elect of Mississippi:

Bryant went so far as to compare the issue to the Holocaust and the Jews of Nazi Germany “being marched into the oven,” because of “the people who were in charge of the government at that time.” He described the ballot measure as “a battle of good or evil,” and warned, “the evil dark side that exists in this world is taking hold. And they’re saying, what we want you to be able to do is continue to extinguish innocent life. You see, if we could do that, Satan wins.”

Jim Garlow, Renewing America’s Leadership:

I have taken people on tours of the concentration camps in Germany on church history tours across Europe, and when I take them to Buchenwald, I say I want you to know that someday, someday in America, people are going to tour the abortuaries, and they’re gonna say: you’re not gonna believe what actually happened to other human beings in these places.

Herman Cain claims Planned Parenthood founded for ‘planned genocide’“:

“When Margaret Sanger – check my history* – started Planned Parenthood, the objective was to put these centers in primarily black communities so they could help kill black babies before they came into the world,” Cain said during a talk in Washington, D.C., at the Heritage Foundation, a conservative group. “It’s planned genocide.”

A popular analogy that doesn’t always work“:

Is legalized abortion akin to the Nazi Holocaust?

The analogy is a standard talking point among abortion opponents, and a new half-hour video by a prominent Christian apologist has gone viral by making the comparison more explicit and graphic than any anti-abortion sound bite on the evening news.

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* OK. See: “A Woman with a Plan: The real story of Margaret Sanger

  • Lori

    Regarding medical personnel pressuring patients: The only person I know personally who was ever seriously pressured by a doctor over a procedure was my friend K. He went for tests because he’s been having headaches and blurry vision. Unfortunately they discovered a brain tumor. When they told K the diagnosis they said that he needed to be admitted to the hospital immediately. He was understandably in shock and noted that his car was in short-term parking and asked if he could go move it. The answer was, “No”.* He ending up calling his brother to come get it. Trufax. 

    My point being that unlike crisis pregnancy center workers most doctors don’t pressure their patients unless it’s absolutely necessary. 

    *They weren’t being pissy. They were afraid that given the scary diagnosis and his obvious state of mind he’d leave the office, freak out and not come back. His situation was serious enough that they felt he couldn’t afford the delay. 

  • http://thatbeerguy.blogspot.com Chris Doggett

    The problems with the “Pro-Life” stance don’t end there.

    “I think abortion is terrible and should be stopped!”

    “Well, we have 50 years of data showing that comprehensive sex education in public schools leads to fewer unplanned pregnancies and less abortions! Fewer abortions is good, right?”

    “I want abstinence-only sex education! Nothing else!!!”

    “Um… we have about 20 years of data showing that abstinence-only sex education causes more unplanned pregnancies, leads to higher abortion rates, and also leads to higher STI transmission rates for a higher health cost overall. Comprehensive sex ed includes a discussion of abstinence. Isn’t that OK?”

    “No! No showing kids how to put condoms on bananas! Bananas should only be used in a classroom to prove God’s design!”

    “Well, what about increasing access to contraception? We’ve got a whole lot of evidence to show that subsidies for birth control, especially aimed at teenagers and low-income adults, leads to a dramatic decrease in unplanned pregnancies and a lower abortion rate.”

    NO CONDOMS IN SCHOOLS! NO BIRTH CONTROL PILLS PAID FOR WITH TAXPAYER DOLLARS!

    “Well, what do you suggest?”

    BAN BIRTH CONTROL! THE PILL KILLS!”

    Somehow, I don’t think the “pro-life” movement really cares about reducing the number of abortions performed…

  • http://twitter.com/FearlessSon FearlessSon

    There are people who do not have the option of waiting 24 hours to have an abortion and clinics that are not required by law to have such a waiting period do not have them. The reality of abortion services in the US is that almost 90% of counties do not have a clinic. That means that for a high percentage of women going to a clinic involves taking time off of work and possibly a long drive. A mandatory waiting period doubles that. A woman with limited finances, no paid time off, no personal transportation and/or a need to keep the abortion private is not going to be able to manage that. 

    Even someone who needs to travel a long distance to have an abortion preformed needs to call first to schedule the appointment.  A reasonable doctor would at least be willing to conduct a consultation over the phone before the person goes in for it.  A medical procedure is not something one can just get in line for like fast food.  

    I do not mean to imply that I in any way support the twenty-four hour waiting period, and I apologize if I gave that impression.  I the point that I was trying to illustrate was more along the lines of “the mandatory waiting period is a redundant addition that serves more as a statement of values / attempt to shame the patient than it does a practical limitation.”  

  • Matri

    “You bit the head off?”
    “I thought there would be delicious stem-cell filling inside.”

    I am a bad, bad man for laughing so, so very hard at this.

  • http://twitter.com/FearlessSon FearlessSon

    Regarding medical personnel pressuring patients: The only person I know personally who was ever seriously pressured by a doctor over a procedure was my friend K. He went for tests because he’d been having headaches and blurry vision. Unfortunately they discovered a brain tumor. When they told K the diagnosis they said that he needed to be admitted to the hospital immediately. He was understandably in shock and noted that his car was in short-term parking and asked if he could go move it. The answer was, “No”.* He ending up calling his brother to come get it. Trufax. 

    Well obviously when it an emergency service.  It was the same way when I got run over by a car some years ago.  I tried to tell the paramedics that I was going to be okay, I got up and crossed the street so my leg was not broken, and I needed to get the info of the guy who hit me, but they were adamant that they take me to the hospital anyway in case there was some hairline fracture which would snap if left untreated.  Only the second time I have been admitted to an emergency room, and the only time I was in a condition to debate the issue.  

    Actually though, this does bring up something that I have noticed about a lot of people in the pro-life crowd.  Namely, the assumption that any woman who has the abortion must have been pressured into getting it by a greedy doctor.  You see this in the rhetoric Fred posted up above, an assumption that any woman who had an unwanted child, even by rape, considers it a blessing, or that people are forced into abortion clinics regardless of their will.  

    Is there no room in their mental framework on the issue that some women would willing go to have an abortion performed?  Or that abortion doctors are simply there to satisfy a demand of the public, rather than to exploit that public?  That people who patronize an abortion clinic come there because, you know, it was their choice to have it done?  

  • http://twitter.com/FearlessSon FearlessSon

    Somehow, I don’t think the “pro-life” movement really cares about reducing the number of abortions performed…

    What I have noticed is that there tends to be a trend of the most vocal pro-life people wanting to have their cake and eat it too.  Now, I will grant that there are several people who would prefer to live in a world without abortions and rationally look for pragmatic ways to reduce the amount of abortions that happen (some of those people are commenters here.)  But the loudest voices tend to be both anti-abortion and anti-sex, not realizing (or just not caring) that being the later tends to lead to more of the former.  You cannot want to restrict sex education and birth control without increasing abortion demand, and you cannot reduce abortion demand without allowing increased sex education and birth control.  There comes a time when a person who is sincere about their ideals has to confront this conflict and decide which issue is more important to them if they expect to make any concrete furthering of one or the other.  

    However, I think that a lot of their desire is more about declaring values than it is about achieving anything.  

  • Lori

     Even someone who needs to travel a long distance to have an abortion preformed needs to call first to schedule the appointment.  A reasonable doctor would at least be willing to conduct a consultation over the phone before the person goes in for it.  A medical procedure is not something one can just get in line for like fast food.  

     

    You do generally make an appointment in advance. The question is do you need one appointment or two? A consultation can not be done over the phone. Clinic workers can answer basic questions on the phone, but the pre-procedure consult needs to be done in person where they can better assess the woman’s state of mind and confirm that she has seen and understand all the material about all her options. 

     I the point that I was trying to illustrate was more along the lines of “the mandatory waiting period is a redundant addition that serves more as a statement of values / attempt to shame the patient than it does a practical limitation.”  

    And my point was that a mandatory waiting period is not in any way redundant. It’s the only reason that a clinic would force a woman to come in twice in order to get an abortion. The waiting period is a statement of values, but it is also a practical attempt to limit the number of women who can exercise their legal right to chose.  

  • Anonymous

    Funny, they have that statement in Alabama as well.

  • http://twitter.com/FearlessSon FearlessSon

    I am just going to leave this here.  

    Did I mention the guy who plays that character is a reader of this blog?  

  • Sgt. Pepper’s Bleeding Heart

    Now, I will grant that there are several people who would prefer to live
    in a world without abortions and rationally look for pragmatic ways to
    reduce the amount of abortions that happen

    ‘Several’ is quite the understatement…

  • Anonymous

    About the fetus trick-or-treat dolls, it’s a classic strawman.  If they handed out little dolls of the embryo that is most likely to be in an elective abortion, it would be just a few inches and would be unrecognizable as anything human.  But of course they want people to believe that silly or evil women are just aborting pregnancies left and right during the third trimester.

  • http://profiles.google.com/marc.k.mielke Marc Mielke

    Heh. A church near my place advertises a youth group called “Youth on Fire”. I was disappointed when I caught the “…for Christ” in smaller type beneath it. 

    It sounded promising up until then. 

  • http://profiles.google.com/marc.k.mielke Marc Mielke

    They need to do it RIGHT: red syrup-filled gummy fetuses!

  • Anonymous

    Get out of my head.

  • Mystick358

    One of the key lessons that Prohibition taught us is that making something illegal doesn’t make it go away. It merely puts it into the hands of criminals. Prohibition made organized criminals fantastically wealthy.

    There will always be demand for marijuana. Or cocaine, or guns, or abortions. Making abortions more difficult to obtain or illegal will not miraculously cause all aborted pregnancies to vanish overnight.  If a woman truly wants to abort her pregnancy, she will do it. If it can’t be done safely, she’ll do it in a way that puts her health at risk. This is the sort of thing that turns rape victims in to suicides.

  • http://apocalypsereview.wordpress.com/ Invisible Neutrino

    The problems with the “Pro-Life” stance don’t end there.

    Chris Doggett:

    You know, seeing it summarized like that in your post suggests to me that a great number of people in the anti-abortion movement who also hold rather conservative views on sex seem to have a tendency to magical thinking: That if they just wish something to be so and if the rules of society match those wishes, then all people will somehow just act exactly according to the wishful thinking.

    So when confronted with evidence that their wishful thinking (i.e. no sex-ed, no abortion clinics, etc) does not produce the desired results, their response is to amp it up and keep wishing harder.

    That’d be fine if it was just them wishing the Binky the Clown doll looked nicer or something, but the effects of this kind of magical thinking are felt by other people and it seems unreasonable to me to expect women who seek abortions and young people who have sex to be the bad guys and to just vanish in order to satisfy the perfect-world thinking of the anti-abortionists who don’t give a damn about babies except as an abstract idea of goodness.

  • Lindenharp

    No one has quoted the Fourth Doctor yet?  Allow me to rectify that.

    The Doctor: Would you like a jelly baby?

    Leela: It’s true then. They say the Evil One eats babies.

    The Doctor: You mustn’t believe all they say.

    Clearly, they should have been handing out jelly babies, which are much closer in size and weight to a 12-week fetus.

  • Steph

    Could the desire to push abortion issues and fetus pictures, dolls, etc. on young children be a way of making the child “pro-life”?  I was raised by a pro-choice parent who did not tell me about abortion until I would be sympathetic with the woman.  “Pro-life” people seem to tell their children about abortion at a very young age–when they cannot possibly understand things from the the woman’s point of view.

  • Rikalous

    Could the desire to push abortion issues and fetus pictures, dolls, etc.
    on young children be a way of making the child “pro-life”?  I was
    raised by a pro-choice parent who did not tell me about abortion until I
    would be sympathetic with the woman.  “Pro-life” people seem to tell
    their children about abortion at a very young age–when they cannot
    possibly understand things from the the woman’s point of view.

    An uncharitable person might suggest that they’re having the kids pick a side before said kids are old enough to think critically about the issue, in the hope that they never will.

  • http://jamoche.dreamwidth.org/ Jamoche

    That if they just wish something to be so and if the rules of society match those wishes, then all people will somehow just act exactly according to the wishful thinking.

    And if they don’t, well, Terry Pratchett nailed it: it’s “…the age-old problem: it wasn’t that you had the wrong kind of government, which was obvious, but that you had the wrong kind of people.
    As soon as you saw people as things to be measured, they didn’t measure up…”

  • Münchner Kindl

    Here are two funny  but true articles about abortion:

    God kills millions of people through miscarriage than abortions do
    http://www.landoverbaptist.org/2010/march/miscarriagemonth.html

    God killed historically thousands of babies
    http://www.landoverbaptist.org/sermons/abortion.html

    Wonder how many “pro-lifers” (= anti-abortion fundies) know that? :)

  • Persia

    It was obstensibly about his non-disclosure. I think it probably had more to do with the author’s personal feelings about homosexuality than that, though (and I doubt the author even realized it).

  • Bificommander

    While not terribly nuanced or all-inclusive, I like how the Fokke & Sukke cartoon expressed their pro-choice argument. Luckily it’s been translated into english so:
    http://www.trippist.com/2006/10/take_a_stand.html

  • http://apocalypsereview.wordpress.com/ Invisible Neutrino

    Those names have to be deliberate, yes?


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