Bryan Fischer is an AIDS denier

Tweet from Bryan Fischer of the American Family Association:

“New pill stops HIV virus. But won’t stop AIDS since caused by extensive inhalant drug use, not HIV.”

So there it is. Bryan Fischer is an AIDS denier. The chief spokesman of the American Family Association is an AIDS denier.

Do you need to know anything, anything at all, else about Bryan Fischer?


Is there anything, anything at all, else that you could possibly learn about Bryan Fischer that would balance this out and make him a credible and/or decent human being?


So why is Bryan Fischer still treated as a respected, credible peer by his allies in the religious right? Why is Bryan Fischer invited or even allowed to speak at gatherings of the religious right and the Republican Party?

Bryan Fischer is an AIDS denier. The American Family Association is an AIDS-denying organization.

That’s really all you need to know about them.

And that’s really all you need to know about the decency and credibility of anyone who regards them as an ally or a source of support.

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  • Tonio

     Remember the good old days, when fundamentalists claimed that their god created AIDS to punish gays?

  • Tricksterson

    What makes you think those days are past?

  • Tonio

    Oh, that horrid idea is still out there, it just seems to be less common than a generation ago.

  • Tomás Brewster

     He still does believe a god’s punishment for gays.

  • VMink

    what is this i don’t even MAN WHAT

    Seriously, what the heck?  ‘Inhalant drug use?’  Seriously?  Does he think asthma is the RESULT of people using inhalers and not because they’re taking asthma medicine that helps the BREATHE?

    It’s like we’re eternally spiraling towards some sort of ever-moving nadir of scientific knowledge in this culture.

    Please, someone tell me that someone called this guy out on his lack of understanding on twitter. Please.

  • Tomás Brewster

    Fischer is calling Kaposi Sarcoma, AID$, which is widely believed to be caused by Popper or Nitrite inhalant use.  We know that the U.S. CDC invented the phony syndrome because GRID wouldn’t sell to the people. It’s amazing how people call you the denialist or the denier when they don’t have the whole story, what you believe is a comfortable religious notion.

  • Müntzer

    Why is this ‘gay rights’ and ‘homosexuality’?
    AIDS has long since lost its phase as ‘gay cancer’ and is a problem for, well, pretty much anybody not using condoms (and no, you cannot ‘sexually profile’ yourself ‘safe’ partners).

  • Mordicai

     Because fringe extremist groups have a long history of ignoring & lying about AIDS & HIV to suit their anti-homosexual agenda, to the tune of denying gay people medical care?  Because “inhalant drugs” is I’m guessing code for “poppers” is code for “gay people.”

  • Müntzer

     God, the American Christian (sigh) Right sure is complicated.

  • Tomás Brewster

     That’s incorrect, dissenting groups deny the fringe groups, especially those that espouse to Robert Gallo & Luc Montagnier’s constructed HIV theories of AID$.

    Here is how silly it get’s, start a movement about the existence of Santa & Bigfoot and see how crazy this sounds… no different with ‘HIV”, Robert Gallo(up for scientific misconduct twice) never purified any virus from the original isolation protocol, Luc Montagnier the french scientist who won the 200 million dollar law suit against the Reagan adminstration and Gallo’s team over the phony HIV antibody test kits said the same thing “We did not Purify”.  so what is it that the U.S. Center for Disease Control and National Institue of Health  been selling all of these years?   Fear.

    Gay people demanded the pills AZT & Antiretroviral drugs and they got what they asked for.. I am gay and it’s not surprising to see poppers sold as VCR head cleaner or some other novelty, Lung Disease in a bottle.. we can thank the gay industry for their wonderful betrayal against GBLT!

  • Mordicai

    A new account with a commenting history of only spewing addled & incoherent conspiracies based on an incomplete understanding of the scientific method? I AM SIMPLY SHOCKED.

  • Spider

    None of what you said makes any sense. I fear you may be mentally ill, with your disjointed conspiracy ramblings. [Citation Needed] about that lawsuit vs. Reagan, incidentally. I’ve found no record of any such thing.

    Nevertheless: HIV is a real thing. AIDS exists in places where poppers have never appeared (Africa ring a bell?).
    Plus, you’re claiming that HIV is a conspiracy by gay people to make other gay people drug addicts. Furthermore, the fact that most LGBT types don’t even take poppers (or have HIV/AIDS) destroys your argument. As does the fact that lesbians are the lowest-risk group for it, and straight men are the fastest-growing risk group.

    You also seem to forget that epidemiologists worldwide have shown that HIV causes AIDS, not just the American CDC.

    Welcome to Conspiracy Theorists Say The Darndest Things, btw. You’re a great source of amusement, and an effective tale of caution.

  • Tomás Brewster

     It would have been nice to have understood anything that you just said or assumet hat I meant or said, but it appears that your AID$ Denial is not shocking, most AID$ Denailists attack first then maybe ask questions later…I’d be weary of people like you, neurotic people are scary people.

  • Jay in Oregon

    Yeah, but a lot of hateful bigots still link AIDS and homosexuality, facts be damned. It’s a regular staple in the Westboro Baptist Church’s propoganda to this day.

  • Marc Mielke

    The Westboro folks link all sorts of shit to homosexuality, military service most notably. Not saying bigots don’t still talk about the gay plague, but the inbred Phelps family probably isn’t your best example. 

  • Kiba

     In the last few years I’ve had a fair number of bigots tell me that AIDS is a gay disease as well as the “it started with men screwing monkeys” bullshit.

  • Alex Harman

    Since nobody actually knows exactly when, where, and how HIV first crossed over from other primates to humans, the “men screwing monkeys” rumor cannot be conclusively disproven, but it’s pretty damned unlikely. While we can’t say with certainty that no human ever had sex with a monkey or ape, I don’t know of any documented cases of it happening, either (at least in recent times — I just recollected reading about some of the viler forms of “entertainment” featured in Imperial Roman circuses).

    What’s much more likely is that someone, somewhere in Africa slipped while cutting up an ape or monkey for “bushmeat,” allowing its blood to enter his or her body, along with a strain of the Simian Immunodeficiency Virus whose genome allowed it to adapt to a new host species. While humans having sex with other primates is a rumor (and anyone who thinks it’s common in Africa is probably a pretty virulent racist), humans eating other primates actually is a common enough phenomenon to contribute significantly to the decline in those primates’ populations.

  • Wing

     There have been cases. But then again we have cases of humans screwing horses, chickens, bicycles, and picnic tables, so I wouldn’t call it an epidemic or anything.

  • Ross

    Since nobody actually knows exactly when, where, and how HIV first crossed over from other primates to humans, the “men screwing monkeys” rumor cannot be conclusively disproven, but it’s pretty damned unlikely.

    Only the same way that the “It was the product of a viral spcies-jumping experiment performed by aliens by abducting a human and a monkey and performing a blood transfusion with the alien biofilters tuned to 347 femtolisters,” can’t be disproven.

  • Charity Brighton

     In that light, I can’t conclusively disprove the notion the AIDS deniers are agents of Satan, intending to weaken human society by convincing millions of people that one of the deadliest scourges in recent memory does not exist.

  • Alex Harman

    Charity Brighton wrote:
    “In that light, I can’t conclusively disprove the notion the AIDS deniers are agents of Satan, intending to weaken human society by convincing millions of people that one of the deadliest scourges in recent memory does not exist.”

    Actually, if one begins with the assumption that there is in fact such an entity as Satan, who wishes us ill and has some power to manipulate people and events, that hypothesis immediately begins to look more likely than not.  It would actually be comforting, in a weird sort of way, to be able to ascribe Peter Duesberg’s actions to demonic possession, rather than accepting that a man who once proved himself to be a capable scientiest could sink so deep into confirmation bias and dishonest resolution of his cognitive dissonance that he’d continue to spread lies that have resulted in hundreds of thousands of preventable deaths.

  • Tomás Brewster

     Satan does not exist that another 21st century myth perpetrated by even the most devout scientists.

  • Joshua

    Aliens and Lister do not exist in the same universe.

  • Alex Harman

    Joshua wrote:
    “Aliens and Lister do not exist in the same universe.”

    I think some of the GELFs that turned up in the later seasons were inhuman enough to qualify as aliens for all practical purposes.

  • BringTheNoise

     Now THAT’s an interesting philosophical question: Could a lifeform created by humans ever qualify as “alien”?

  • Alex Harman

    It’s not in quite that league; aliens have not been shown to exist at all, let alone aliens who abduct and experiment on humans.  Primates that carry HIV-like viruses and humans who have sex with non-human animals, on the other hand, are both known to exist; it’s just that the latter are a lot less common than humans who eat other primate, and (to offer another much more plausible alternative hypothesis to human-ape or human-monkey sex) humans who get bitten by other primates.

  • Tomás Brewster

     humans harbor many human retroviruses for their entire life time and do not get super syndromes as the one made up by the U.S. center for Disease control this is no secret.

  • The_L1985

    I’ve heard of another possibility. Since HIV is so similar to the form of SIV found in baboons, and since the disease didn’t show up until the 20th century, it’s likely something like this may have happened:

    Doctors need more vaccine than they have. Doctors try to “stretch” the vaccine to innoculate more people by cutting it with baboon plasma. It later turns out that the plasma used was infected with SIV.

  • Invisible Neutrino

    That sounds like a pretty tragic mistake, brought on by lack of understanding of interspecies disease crossing :(

  • Lori


      In the last few years I’ve had a fair number of bigots tell me that
    AIDS is a gay disease as well as the “it started with men screwing
    monkeys” bullshit. 

    It didn’t spread because people were screwing monkeys. Why is everything sex with these people? I hate to be reductive, but I really think that if they were doing it more/better they’d have far fewer weird, nonsensical discussions about it.

    Something else these folks doubtless don’t want to hear—-one of the ways AIDS spread into the human population was via increased contact with the area in which it began. That increase came to a significant degree because of road-building done to further commerce.

    I wrote a paper about this for a human geography class I took many years ago.

    It was both incredibly interesting and really heartbreaking and depressing.

  • Kiba

    Yeah, I don’t get it either. 

    I read something awhile ago about tracing the spread of HIV/AIDS that had the earliest outbreak of the disease all the way back in the early 1900s when Belgium (I think) was in charge of the area. Basically the argument was that the disease spread from monkey to humans via hunting (infected blood getting into cuts, etc.) and then passed into the general populace through rampant prostitution in the European towns. It then went to trace the spread of the disease through the years from the Congo to Haiti and, eventually, the U.S.

    I want to say I read it about a year or so ago, but for the life of me I can’t remember right now. Maybe once my insomnia goes away and I can think straight again I’ll be able to remember where I read it and look it up again. 

  • Invisible Neutrino

    What really freaks me out is what if HIV had been an epidemic in the 1950s? The biochemistry and microbiology techniques we have today didn’t exist back then, and even with 1980s/1990s technology it still took about 20 years to really get to the point where anti-HIV drugs could be considered effective.

    Also, the Cold War – what if the USA and USSR had started accusing each other of committing biological warfare? (O_O)

  • Tomás Brewster

     well it’s 2012 and the AID$ medical cartle stil have not provide the scientific validation of “HIV” antibody test kits. This is a scary notion since people who test antibody, RNA or DNA positive are told they ‘have’ (HIV) although there is no way to verify such results.  Today people are given a diagnosis on tests that have never been verified by means of direct HTLVIII/LAV isolation. One of the major flaws in the AID$ Beliefism theories of HIV.

  • The_L1985

     Seriously, what crazy conspiracy-theory websites are you going to?

    What benefit could possibly result from inventing a supposedly-fatal disease?

    If AIDS is caused by something else, then what benefit could possibly result from lying about how it is transmitted?

    There is none.  Therefore, it makes no sense for there to be some massive conspiracy, because a conspiracy has to benefit the people perpetuating it in order to exist in the first place.

  • hidden_urchin

    Was it an article on the book Tinderbox: How the West Sparked the AIDS Epidemic and How the World can Finally Overcome It?  Here’s a link to the PBS spot:

  • Kiba

    I think that might have been it. I could also be combining things from that article and assorted world AIDS organizations. When I can’t sleep my brain gets fuzzy.

  • Alex Harman

    There’s a reasonably good summary of that historical hypothesis on the Wikipedia HIV/AIDS page.

  • Invisible Neutrino

    Jesus. Look at those crashing life expectancies for those African countries. It’s like a straight line upwards through the 1970s and 1980s, and then CRASH. It’s like a mirror of the crash of Russian life expectancies post-Soviet Union.

    I’d almost be tempted to wonder if the AIDS epidemic in Africa is due, in part, to people undertaking riskier economic and social activities because of the lack of Soviet support and the concomitant loss of what welfare states existed in some African countries as a result, since the IMF often insisted on cuts to social and health spending as preconditions for budgetary balance and further loans.

  • Alex Harman

    That does seem like a likely contributor — most women who become sex workers, especially in developing countries, do so out of economic necessity.  The more women in a society are faced with a stark choice between selling sex and starving to death, the more prostitution that society will have.  As sex workers become more visible and competition drives down the price for their services, more and more men will see paying for sex as an attractive alternative (or supplement) to pursuing romantic relationships.  That created the perfect petri dish for the tranformation of a mild blood-borne zoonosis that the human immune system would normally overwhem in a matter of weeks to evolve into a lethal plague with an absurdly long incubation period that gives every patient plenty of time to infect others before succumbing.

  • Invisible Neutrino

    Hey – just saw this. You paint a very saddeningly realistic picture of the on-the-ground damage to real people with real lives wrought by ivory-tower IMFers who see line items on a budget and nothing else.

  • Tomás Brewster

     Wikipedia is Satan.

  • Tomás Brewster

     “The” “truth” would have been more honest.

  • Tomás Brewster

    actually “HIV” is the gay disease and “AID$” somehow became the black disease, look at your contradicting media artcles everyday you’ll notice or continue denying the facts.

  • FearlessSon

    This strikes me as less “apologetic denial” and more “unacceptable depths of ignorance on the part of someone claiming to speak with authority.”  

    He is repeating the kind of thing which might have, might have, been an urban legend that seemed plausible to non-expert people back in, say, the eighties.  But these days?  He is either living so deep in a bubble for the last three decades that no new information could reach him, or more plausibly, he is just sharing his own willful ignorance among those who wish to maintain their own willful ignorance.  

  • Tomás Brewster

     The Historical Record will never lie and you can’t deny that, if you do you could possibly have blood on your hands.

  • Albanaeon

    Am I reading this right?  Is Fischer really saying that using pot causes AIDS?  Because I really can’t think of many other extensively used inhalant drugs.  If so, that’s an ultra scary disconnect from reality for such a prominent figure.

  • Müntzer

     Glue, anything you can smoke (Heroin, opium derivates), crystal meth, etc.
    There is much you can inhale…

  • Carrie Looney

    The association of amyl nitrate with AIDS has some popularity as a right-wing pseduoscintific belief.

  • reynard61

    “Because I really can’t think of many other extensively used inhalant drugs.”

    Meth. Rubber cement. Model cement. Paint cans. Hair spray. Crack. PCP. Hashish. And those are just the ones off the top of my oh-so-carefully coiffed head…

  • Alex B

    Meth, Crack, PCP and Hash are all smoked. An inhalant drug is not smoked, it is inhaled as-is. (Meth, Cocaine and PCP can also be insufflated (snorted), but that’s also not classified as an “inhalant drug”).

    Far and away the most common inhalant drugs are amyl nitrite (poppers) and nitrous oxide (laughing gas).

    EDIT: Should read “most common recreationally used inhalant drugs”.

  • reynard61

    “Meth, Crack, PCP and Hash are all smoked(…)”

    Somehow I get the feeling that Fischer doesn’t make any distinction. I’d be willing to bet real money that, in whatever passes for his mind, anything that someone breathes in that isn’t air or tobacco smoke (I notice that he said nothing about the dangers of smoking) will cause AIDS; and they deserve what they get as a result.

  • Joshua

     I’d be willing to bet real money that, in whatever passes for his mind, anything that someone breathes in that isn’t air or tobacco smoke (I notice that he said nothing about the dangers of smoking) will cause AIDS; and they deserve what they get as a result.

    Nah, I disagree. I think it’s all about amyl nitrite, because of its popularity in some parts of the gay community and stereotypical association with same, and he just said “inhalant drugs” because he couldn’t remember the name or felt it read better or his brain overloaded or something.

    Thinking about glue or solvents is more thinking than I expect he’s prepared to do.

  • Tomás Brewster

    people who test antibody, RNA or DNA positive have been told that they have “HIV” rather than non specific antibodies.. which there is no published peer reviewed study that shows validation of HIV Test kits by means of direct HTLVIII/LAV/HIV isolation and furthermore the corrupt U.S. Center for Disease Control designed the phony syndrome without any specific definition. to say that anything causes AID$ is based on  the belief system of a definitional construct.  The term AID$ should be banned from human vocabulary.

  • LouisDoench

    Politicians should not WANT this mans support.  An honest politician would not speak in front of a crowd unless this man was removed from the room.  Mitt Romney is not an honest politician. 

  • Haven

    I’m sure Romney would love to distance himself from this, but he just needs that 50.1% and can’t afford to push anyone away.

    …I wish that sentence I just wrote was a parody or exaggeration.

  • Donalbain

    Bryan Fischer thinks that the HIV link to AIDS was created by a conspiracy of evil cancer researchers. No. Really. He actually thinks that.

  • Invisible Neutrino

    Wow. There’s conspiracy theories, and then there’s just plain not of this Earth at all. (O_o)

  • Tomás Brewster

     denial is a river..or an unwanted truth?

  • Tonio

    I won’t be able to read the whole thing without becoming furious, but these jumped out at me:

    instead of targeting males, as AIDS does

    That would be news to the 16 million women who have it worldwide.

    While the average heterosexual has somewhere between seven to 14 sexual partners in a lifetime, it is not uncommon for homosexuals to have hundreds, even thousands, of sexual partners.

    He goes into more detail after this. Could he be simply envious?

  • PJ Evans

     He also doesn’t seem to have heard about the kids who got HIV from blood used transfusions, usually during surgery.

  • Charity Brighton


     He also doesn’t seem to have heard about the kids who got HIV from blood used transfusions, usually during surgery.

    They might decide to lash out against those kids if they ever want an alliance with the Christian Scientists.

  • Tomás Brewster

    While it’s no secret that “HIV” even if it (might) exist is the most difficult to transmit person to person and there is still no scientific validaton  to prove that one has “HIV” or even “HIV Antibodies”, by saying so constitutes child abuse.

  • The_L1985

    Difficult? It’s frighteningly easy to transmit.  Let’s pretend for the moment that you’re an HIV-positive man.  All you have to do is any of the following:

    – Finger a woman using untrimmed fingernails (thus scratching up her innards a bit), then have unprotected vaginal sex with her.

    – Or have unprotected anal sex with a receiving partner of either gender–without lots of lubricant, the rectal lining is pretty much guaranteed to tear.

    – Rape a woman, vaginally or anally.  An unaroused woman doesn’t produce
    protective fluids to lubricate the vagina, and thus the interior of
    either orifice WILL tear.

    – Or re-use a medical needle of any kind, for any reason.

    – Or bandage another person’s wounds, while not wearing gloves.  Most people have tiny cuts on their hands (hangnails and the like) all the time and don’t even notice.

    All of the above put YOUR blood or semen in direct contact with another person’s blood.  Thus, all of the above can transmit HIV.

    And yes, HIV has been proven to exist.  We’ve seen it using electron microscopes.  We know its “biological” structure.  And there are no HIV antibodies worth speaking of, because it’s part of the viral family known as retroviruses, which mutate at too high a rate for antibodies to be even remotely effective.

    I don’t know where you’re getting your (mis)information, or if there are medications you’re supposed to be taking that you’ve skipped (if so, then please, PLEASE take your meds!!), but 5 minutes reading any of the following could have told you these things (listed in order from most to least reliable sources of information):

    – Any STD-related materials published by the CDC (in print or online) since 1990.

    – The entry for AIDS or HIV in any encyclopedia published after 1990.

    – Any medical study about HIV or AIDS published after 1990.

    – Talking to any licensed physician whatsoever.

    – Encarta.

    – Wikipedia.

  • Lliira

    “While the average heterosexual has somewhere between seven to 14 sexual partners in a lifetime, it is not uncommon for homosexuals to have hundreds, even thousands, of sexual partners.”

    That would be news to my best friend who married her high school sweetheart, her one and only. Though maybe lesbians don’t count?

    Also, the number of partners he claims “the average heterosexual” has looks a bit high. I’m curious as to where this guy’s finding his statistics. 

  • Danel

    If there was any doubt that he wasn’t speaking in bad faith, it leaps out at me that he’s not comparing like with like there – on the one hand, the “average” heterosexual (as meaningful as the average of any category containing both Sir Cliff Richard and Russell Brand can be); on the other, not the “average homosexual”, but what is “not uncommon” for homosexuals. So not even “most homosexuals” – as long as it’s “more than a few” he’s technically not wrong. 

    The figure he has for average isn’t impossible, but nor is it particularly meaningful, like the statistic that the Vatican has six popes per square mile. No one can have fewer than zero sexual partners, but the relatively small number of people who have a great many indeed are going to drag the mean way up.  The modal average would probably be more useful for studying such a thing. 

  • Alex Harman

    Even the median would be better than the arithmetic mean — Wilt Chamberlain can only cancel out one celibate in that stat, as opposed to several thousand (if we take the man’s boasts seriously, that is).

  • Charity Brighton

    Also, the number of partners he claims “the average heterosexual” has looks a bit high.

    I think that the numbers aren’t the only things here that’s a “bit high”. i

  • Alex Harman

    Where do his ilk usually find their statistics?  They pull them out of their asses.

  • Tomás Brewster

     anyone with google alerts can see the fucking transparency in all of this media induced horse shit, there’s a denialist exercise for you…try it some time…google alerts it’ll make you despise Robert Gallo and Anthony Fauci…Montagnier is coming around if only his side kick Igor she would take a permment trip to helens house.

  • Tomás Brewster

     according to state health facts “HIV” is a high-pathetic “male retrovirus”  and so for “HIV” to be an epidemic, “it” would have to be 50/50 between the sexes in order to be called a problem…   however, the data shows that men are at 80% and women 20% this is nothing to worry about.

  • The_L1985

    I beg your pardon? Look at Africa, you fool. African women are contracting the disease at least as much as men, if not moreso.

  • Guest

    I think trying to use logic with that person will be about as successful as convincing Lady Gaga to go out in jeans and a t-shirt.

  • Tomás Brewster

     Lady Gaga is an AID$ denialist, along with Ricky Martin, Sharon Stone, Nicky Minaj, Elton John, Bono, and last but not least Annie Lennox!   There are plenty more but those are some of the most common AID$ Denialists off the top of my head.

  • Tomás Brewster

     While I have been called many names, it appears that AID$ Denialists such as yourself have more to gain politically than to promote the genocidal, bangui definition for AID$ in Africa.

  • The_L1985

     I am not an AIDS denier.  AIDS has been scientifically proven to be caused by HIV.  HIV is transmitted through contact between any of the following bodily fluids of two or more people:  blood, semen, breast milk, vaginal fluid, pus.  Note that two of those fluids are produced exclusively by females.  Also note that HIV has been transmitted by the acts of birth and breastfeeding, both of which involve the above bodily fluids, and both of which are generally associated with the mother having had vaginal intercourse in the past (and for HIV to be transmitted to the mother, she had to have had intercourse with someone who was HIV-positive, or else to have contracted HIV at birth, like her son or daughter).

    What on earth would anyone gain from denying any of the above?  Denying that AIDS is caused by HIV, and that it can be spread by direct contact of bodily fluids which can result in both homosexual and heterosexual intercourse, is killing people.  Knowing and spreading the truth saves lives.  I am on the side of people not dying of AIDS!

  • Tomás Brewster

     so you don’t believe that humans are capable of being a “conspirator” or that a mankind is perfect… is that your conspiracy theory?

  • Emcee, cubed

    To decode the code words here (a couple of people have brought this up, but not directly):

    “Inhalant drugs” does not refer to smoked drugs (which have to be ignited to be inhaled), but drug whose vapors are inhaled without ignition. (This also excludes things like cocaine which are solids introduced through the nasal cavity, not actually inhaled.) Things like glue and “huffing” are likely part of this group (though I don’t know enough about them personally to be sure), but what Fischer is using it to mean is amyl nitrate (or various derivatives) commonly known as “poppers”.

    Poppers are common in the gay community, and in the early ’80s were considered a possible cause of AIDS (or GRID – Gay-Related Immune Deficiency – as it was known then). This was quickly discounted after the infection patterns made it obvious it was contagious, so not caused by an external source. Until this story broke (I’d heard about it somewhere else before Fred wrote about it), I honestly had no idea anyone was still stupid enough to think this.

  • pharoute

    I’m begining to wonder when he’ll start to argue that Native Americans don’t have souls. I’d like to think that that is extreme hyperbole but recent years have shown they’ll push any agenda they want.

  • Tricksterson

    Probably not First Nations.  Illegal immigrants on the other hand…

  • MaryKaye

     I am sure that the friends and relatives of the 1.2 million people who have died of AIDS and AIDS-related causes in sub-Saharan Africa will be surprised to know that their sickness was due to poppers.  (Also that it was due to homosexuality, since the African epidemic affects women and men about equally.)

    Sigh.  The only cheery thing about this whole thread is that in doing the research for the statements above, I learned that prenatal and perinatal HIV transmission in the US is declining steeply due to good prophylactic treatments.  Of all the awful ways to get AIDs, being born with it has to be one of the worst.  I remember asking a technical question about the data from a certain patient at a conference and having the researcher unexpectedly shed several tears before being able to answer; the child had not lived very long.  So this at least is good news.

  • Tricksterson

    Scary part is that Thabo Mbeki  former President of South Africa  believed pretty much that.  He was an adherent of Deusberg

  • Tomás Brewster

     You must be getting your phony data from Mr Fauci and the CDC how quaint???

  • Donalbain

     You must be getting your phony data from Mr Fauci and the CDC how quaint???

    Errr… the website YOU posted gets its data from the CDC…

  • Tomás Brewster

     THANKS for POINTING That out to all of us!   bravo!

  • Alex Harman

    The association of AIDS with amyl nitrate “poppers” is part of the Duesberg Hypothesis, an alternative explanation of AIDS which was conclusively discredited back in the 1990’s.  Peter Duesberg continues to advocate it, but in order to do so he has to misinterpret some studies and pretend that many others do not exist at all.  It’s rather unfortunate, since Duesberg was at one time a competent scientist who did some valuable work on the role of viruses in causing cancer (unlike, say, Bryan Fischer, whose public life reveals no redeeming qualities or positive accomplishments whatsoever).

    I think Duesberg is trapped in an especially nasty state of Bad Jackie-style cognitive dissonance: if he admits that he’s wrong, he’d be admitting that he bears some responsibility for the hundreds of thousands of deaths that resulted from the South African government’s embrace of his conclusions under President Thabo Mbeki.

  • Antigone10

    This is like half-remembered, bad answers on a high school Health test bad.  How do you even begin to explain how this is wrong?

    1) Some drugs, which use needles, can transmit the HIV virus.  But not inhalants (how would that even work?)
    2) Human immunodeficiency virus causes Aquired immunodeficiency syndrome.  It’s on Wikipedia, for FSM sake.   You can trace the names!

    3) If it’s Truvada that they are talking about, it is a preventative, not a cure.  It won’t “stop” HIV, it’ll help prevent the spread.  This may seem nitpicky, but they are actually different.  It has now taken me 359 (no spaces) characters to combat 144.

  • Emcee, cubed

    Some drugs, which use needles, can transmit the HIV virus.

    I think I understand what you are saying here, but you are saying it badly. There is no drug that transmit HIV. What transmits the virus during intravenous drug use is infected blood on a shared needle.

    But not inhalants (how would that even work?)

    Fischer is not claiming inhalants spread the HIV virus. He is claiming they cause AIDS, which he also claims is not caused by the HIV virus. While Fischer’s claim is ridiculous, unscientific and discredited, it doesn’t help to misrepresent the claim.

  • TheDarkArtist

    Ugh, just when you thought this guy couldn’t be any scummier, there he goes. AIDS deniers are just the worst-of-the-worst, talk about heaping suffering upon suffering. 

    I can’t even listen to The Foo Fighters any more, because at one point they supported some idiotic AIDS denialist organization, and only took it off of their website when people complained about it.

  • purpleshoes

    What’s most interesting about this is that if you read down to the bottom of his essay, it’s really clear that what offends him isn’t the idea that AIDS is caused by HIV, it’s that he desperately wants AIDS to be caused by doing something he thinks is wrong. According to him, using amyl nitrate is wrong, using injectable drugs is wrong, and having sex with another man is wrong. If he could prove that AIDS is caused by some sort of bodily shock from touching another gentleman intimately, he would make that argument, but a virus is indirect and morally unsatisfying to him. A virus can be caught by anyone, under the right circumstances. A virus gets us into theodicy, which is not an area where Bryan Fischer treads comfortably, I would say.

  • Tricksterson

    IIRC the “anal sex causes AIDS” theory is a common one.  Or more accurately that HIV is somehow activated and transformed into AIDS by anal sex.  Somehow.  Trust me there is no theory, however stupid that you can up up with that someone doesn’t take seriously.

  • Alex Harman

    I wouldn’t dignify that notion with a word like “theory,” or even “hypothesis.”

  • Emcee, cubed

     Joshua completely beat me to it. He definitely wants it specifically about something only gay men do (supposedly).

  • RichardJ

    Fischer interviewed Duesberg back in January:

    The AIDS deniers are still working away to convince people with HIV that the virus is harmless or does not exist, they funded a faux “documentary” called House of Numbers to promote their BS (it resembles a film version of Duesberg’s Regnery Press book “Inventing the AIDS Virus”). The people who made the film lied to interviewees about their intentions, and the AIDS deniers who funded it tried to pretend they had nothing to do with it and it was objective. I suspect it was always intended as tool to use on the internet, which has given them a new opportunity to propagandize (the full length film is now on youtube). If you want to witness the depressing spectacle HIV positive people embracing denial and abandoning treatment in favor of crackpot medical advice, check out the Rethinking AIDS Facebook page:

  • Alex Harman

    One of the most reprehensible things about House of Numbers is that they included an interview with AIDS denialist and patient Christine Maggiore without ever mentioning that she killed her daughter, Eliza Jane Scovill, at the age of three by first refusing to take antiretrovirals during her pregnancy or while breastfeeding (which she shouldn’t have done at all), then refusing to have the little girl tested or treated for HIV when she grew sick. She then attempted to cover up her negligent homicide by hiring another denialist (a veterinary pathologist, not qualified to draw conclusions regarding human medical records) to “review” the autopsy report and dispute the coroner’s conclusion that Eliza Jane had died of pneumocystis pneumonia resulting from advanced AIDS.  House of Numbers did mention (in fine print near the end of the closing credits) that Maggiore herself had died prior to the film’s release, but also falsely asserted that her death was unrelated to HIV, despite her death certificate stating that the cause of death was disseminated herpes virus infection and bilateral pneumonia, with oral candidiasis as a contributing cause — all typical opportunistic infections associated with AIDS.

  • Tomás Brewster

     This argument with Christine Maggiore & her daughter Eliza Jane Scovill is a martian argument based on the definitional elemets of the construct of HIV/AIDS.  It’s a silly notion to say that people who test positive on non specific hiv tests could get hit by a bus and be labeled as an AID$ death…it’s the religious mindset of the AIDS Paradigm to claim that anaphylactic shock is an AID$-Indicator disease, which is listed no where in the AID$ Bible nor the AID$ disctionary.   Techiniaclly we could say that Alex Harman has AID$ by his own defintion although his medical records say something else, but group conformity would never allow Alex Harman to be “correct” or even be allowed to speak because his own defintion says he has AID$…perhaps everyone has AID$!     Not.

    Christine Maggiore is a god!  her legacy is not forgotten and those of you that dance on her daughter grave ..should be thrown into a pit of raging hyenas!

  • Tomás Brewster

     Let us not forget that Richard Jeffrey’s a prominent AID$ denialist member of the political email club AIDSTruth  has had his hands in the AID$ coffers for some time now, the dr Jeckyl and Mr Hyde of HIV Theorism

  • Lliira

    I’m not sure this is a decency issue re: Bryan Fischer. It feels to me more like Time Cube-level… stuff. I don’t know whether to be outraged with him or to simply pity him. 

  • Alex Harman

    Bryan Fischer has a lot more influence than the Time Cube guy, though, and I don’t really think that Fischer is mentally ill; I think he’s out of touch with reality by choice.

  • Mark Z.

    More to the point, Bryan Fischer has a lot more influence than the Time Cube guy, which means that whatever is wrong with Fischer, it’s not limited to Fischer. Mitt Romney does not have a strategy to reach out to the Time Cube Voters.

  • Tomás Brewster

     Bryan Fischer is an AID$ Denialist like most of you..and a biggoted one at that.

  • LoneWolf343

    “Inhalant” drug use?  Not intravenous drug use, but “inhalant” drug use? Does Fischer think that AIDS is caused by asthma medication?

    This is literally mind-boggling. These are the kinds of statements that make other people wonder if one is mentally ill.

  • Müntzer

    Well, you DO have a higher chance of contracting HIV if you are an excessive recreational drug user… only for very different reason.

  • Donalbain

    How do these evil people explain the fact that babies are born HIV+ and go on to develop AIDS?

  • Sgt. Pepper’s Bleeding Heart

    How do these evil people explain the fact that babies are born HIV+ and go on to develop AIDS?

    I believe the explanation goes like this:

    HIV+ people develop AIDS under conditions of malnourishment (hence, Africa) and/or drug abuse or other “extremely unhealthy behaviours” (hence, people in rich countries who we like to demonise). The babies develop AIDS because the nastiness of their mother has some kind of epigenetic effect.

  • Tomás Brewster

     AID$ ? well that depends on what part the world you’re standing on.. at present there over a dozen defintions for AID$ and according to James Chin, some countries make up their own definitions.  If an innocent baby has tuberculosis in Africa, no HIV Test kit is even required, based on the conditions caused by Tuberculosis, the baby can be diagnosed with AID$ although the baby has TB, pretty clever of the corrupt U.S. Center for Disease Control..   When people wake up to the fact that AID$ is a mere category of older problems, a new name for what was already discovered we begin to deconstruct a defintional paradigm.. but most people follow the snake oil of the church of AID$…they follow the money.. an Orweliian mind fuck!

  • Tomás Brewster

     The Better question would be how dare we diagnose innocent babies “HIV+” based on their own antibody responses, most children do not develop their own antibodies well above 18 months old, this is not only a sadistic mindset but the child has no right to life, it has been taken from them based on Rober Gallo’s flawed HIV Theories of AID$.

  • Donalbain

    Also, have any of the non-progressive Christian blogs on this network called out the vile piece of shit for this sort of thing? 

  • Sgt. Pepper’s Bleeding Heart

    Also, have any of the non-progressive Christian blogs on this network called out the vile piece of shit for this sort of thing? 

    Now, now, Donalbain. This network encourages open, respectful dialog about faith between people of all traditions who recognise the default nature of Americanised politically conservative Christianity. We here on the progressive portal are the aberrations, which your use of the pejorative term “non-progressive Christian” fails to recognise.

  • Sgt. Pepper’s Bleeding Heart

    While on the topic, though, I did a quick survey of recent articles in the other “Christian channels” out of interest.

    Evangelical channel
    – Christians should engage in the political sphere. The word secular elite appears in the first sentence, which is helpful.
    – Rick Santorum has a blog on Patheos. Boo, abortion!
    – Americans pay too much tax. Founding fathers something
    – Obamacare sets the stage for tyrany. The Bible shows that God is not into tyrannical governments.
    – Partisan conflict is good for American democracy
    – Small government yeah! Anyone who puts the term social justice in scare quotes, btw, gets my utter scorn

  • Donalbain

    I loathe Patheos. The fact that they shunt the likes of Fred into a “progressive Christian” Ghetto really annoys me. Fred is as much an Evangelical as any of the others in that channel, but because he is not a right wing flag waving douchebag, he is not accepted in that channel. And as for the Catholic Channel….

  • Sgt. Pepper’s Bleeding Heart

    I share all the sentiments you expressed.

    My summary of the recent articles on the “evangelical” channel wasn’t selective, btw. Those points covered each of the posts in their “recent articles” sidebar.

  • Sgt. Pepper’s Bleeding Heart

    Dude, if you don’t quote then we have no idea who you’re talking to so you become Non Sequitur man.

  • Tomás Brewster

     Yes a baptist use to say that to me Sgt Pepper!  fortunately i could care less about religious notions and debates.

  • Guest

    Fun with math.

    Let’s say a gay man begins having sex at age 16 and continues until his death at age 80. That’s 64 years of sweaty man-on-man action. (Fischer, if you’re reading this, take a moment to fan yourself. I’ll wait).

    Taking Fischer’s “thousands” to mean exactly 2000, that means a different sex partner every 11.6 days. Let’s round down to 11. Now, I don’t know a whole lot about the gay scene in most cities, but I’d have to think at some point, you’d simply run out of new guys to screw. 

    Of course, being one homogenous, like-minded group, they’ll all naturally respond the same way to a simple “let’s fuck” proposition. So none of the men will want a few getting-to-know-you dates, or want to be in a serious relationship, or are only interested in a particular race or body type. All they care about is getting their rocks off with any man at any time. 

    Sheesh, gay men entering into longterm monogamous relationships spanning months, or years, or decades must either screw around on their partners or do a hell of a lot of making up for lost time between relationships to hit those numbers.

    I think Fischer spends more time thinking about gay men than gay men do.

  • Tonio

    It’s possible that Fischer is simply jealous of gay men, or more rather the stereotype that he harbors of them. Perhaps in his mind, these men are cheating because they are escaping the “consequences” of heterosexual monogamy, meaning not just becoming a father but also having to relate to women as real human beings. Sam Kinison, who also pushed the sex-with-monkeys myth, frequently ranted about his marriages being hell on earth. Both men may simply wanted to sleep with as many women as possible without interacting with them any other way, and they imagined gay men having the same attitude toward sex and being free to pursue it.

  • Dave

    Yeah, this was a running joke between my husband and me for years… given that we’ve both had exactly one sexual partner for the last twenty-years-come-November, we feel sort of bad for the two promiscuous guys who had to find an extra thousand people a year to fuck. When do they get any sleep?

    See also “Every 1.6 seconds a U.S. citizen is mugged. His name is Gary, and he’s really getting tired of it.”

    More seriously… I mostly think this sort of thing derives from having the only examples of gay behavior one recognizes as such being “gay vacation spots”, like Fire Island canonically was for a while. It’s as if I generalized straight teenager’s sex lives from Spring Break in Florida. (Which, come to think of it, many people seem to.)

  • Lliira

    “It’s as if I generalized straight teenager’s sex lives from Spring Break in Florida. (Which, come to think of it, many people seem to.)”

    Yes, and for the same reason. It makes them hot. But they’re ashamed of that. So they make up excuses for dwelling on it so feverishly. It’s because they’re ~concerned~ or ~horrified~, really! Not because the thought of energetic young people discovering the joys of sex arouses them, oh no. 

    Much of what homophobic people write is actually erotica slathered in shame.

  • Alex Harman

    “Now, I don’t know a whole lot about the gay scene in most cities, but I’d have to think at some point, you’d simply run out of new guys to screw.”

    Ever see Queer as Folk? That actually was a problem that Brian Kinney, the hyper-promiscuous alpha-queer character, ran into. (Brian’s aversion to attachment made him leery of having sex with the same partner more than once — he several times deflect the advances of other men at Club Babylon with the comment, “I’ve had you already.”)

    For those who haven’t seen the series, you should also know that Kinney was the only one of the main cast who conformed to that stereotype, although one or two of the others sometimes expressed a degree of envy.  It’s a lot easier to live that way if you’re both very good-looking and very wealthy — Brian was both, the rest of the leads somewhat less so.

  • Tomás Brewster

     Wonder how much tax payer money the U.S. Center for Disease Control spent on that show expanding their horsehit HIV theories.

  • Arthur Adams

    Note that just a few posts earlier, Fischer claimed gay sex was what spread HIV: 
    He can’t even be consistent.