‘Who seeks kindness over control’

“Pink being a more decided and stronger color is more suitable for the boy; while blue, which is more delicate and dainty, is prettier for the girl.”

“Women are not suffering from any injustice which giving them the ballot would rectify.”

“Apparently, the futurists of the 1960s could imagine all sorts of gadgets, but not the fact that a female might have a job requiring a home office.”

“From empathy and sexuality to science inclination and extroversion, statistical analysis of 122 different characteristics involving 13,301 individuals shows that men and women, by and large, do not fall into different groups.”

“Enough with the modesty talk that in my experience often leads to blaming women for men’s lust.”

“Teachers said they hoped that if the girls focused on cleaning up their speech on campus for a month, their improved manners would take hold and rub off on the boys.”

“If anything, it seems to me, women have more cause to swear than men.”

“How can you hear the abusive words that church leaders say, how can you hear about the rape and the abuse and the churches that cover it up and not be angry?

They wanted these women to disappear.”

“Female bodies are not to be feared, hidden, or ashamed of — and it’s not the place of Christians to cast shame upon them either.”

“Since neither of us are very feminine women, it must be that we have fallen further away from Jesus than ever before.”

“While Piper acknowledges that gender stereotypes do not always line up with reality, and that clinging to traditional gender roles is not always the most efficient, effective way of getting things done, he insists that it is right to cling to them anyway, even at the cost of life, limb, and a competent woman’•s conscience.”

You can’t repress just one aspect of yourself; it usually affects many areas.”

“To survive in our misogynist (and homophobic) Church, she recommends that we tell our stories.”

“I want you to think as you grow up and into adulthood about putting this passion that you have for this cause into making healthcare available for everybody.”


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  • MikeJ

    I like the argument that women’s suffrage  won’t solve all of our problems, and is therefore meaningless.  You hear that one for every policy proposal ever put forward.

  • Richard Clayton

    Yeah, the the nirvana fallacy has always been phenomenally useful when advocating any kind of status-quo or do-nothing-ism.

  • Foelhe

    I also like the argument that women are carrying too many burdens and shouldn’t have to vote. Yet another one of those wink-nudge “C’mon, ladies, the men have all the power but we know who’s really in charge,” nonsense arguments that always pop up.

  • stardreamer42

    From the “how can you not be angry” link:
    It breaks my heart that Christians say we are all members of one body, and therefore must embrace the cancerous cells that threaten us with hell, tell us to take responsibility for being raped, compare sex to a man “conquering and colonizing…”

    That metaphor. Right there. Not every cell in a body is beneficial, and those that aren’t can kill if they’re allowed to spread unchecked.

  • The_L1985

    I am applauding the fuck out of #silentnomore.  I’m sick of being called nasty names just because I have a uterus and an opinion that somebody else doesn’t like.  

  • banancat

    This is especially true of green and renewable energy. I’ve seen so many people on the internet claim that solar power is useless because it’s cloudy sometimes, and I think at least some significant fraction of those commenters weren’t just trolling or being sarcastic.

  • I just don’t understand some guys.  I simply cannot comprehend it, and it’s infuriating that I share biology with such filth.  I hope before I die I can live in a world where this kind of thing does not happen.

  • This is especially true of green and renewable energy. I’ve seen so many people on the internet claim that solar power is useless because it’s cloudy sometimes, and I think at least some significant fraction of those commenters weren’t just trolling or being sarcastic.

    That bothers me too.  We will virtually never have an entirely green energy supply, there will always be a dependence on resource-consumptive energy sources.  I can and do acknowledge that freely.  But just because we cannot eliminate all dependence on these things does not mean that we should not reduce our dependence on such things.  

    In terms of fuel input consumed to waste products output, it is about making the system as a whole more materially efficient.  Fewer resources to put in and less crap to clean up afterward.  

  • EllieMurasaki

    They…do know that every energy source on the planet is solar energy that’s gone through a few transformations, right?

  • Amaryllis

    “Teachers said they hoped that if the girls focused on cleaning up their speech on campus for a month, their improved manners would take hold and rub off on the boys.”

    Sigh. Typical double standard and double burden, making the girls responsible for the boys’ behavior as well as their own. The school deserves all the scorn that can be heaped on it.

    But, from the linked article, “This program promotes gender inequality like only the Catholic Church can.” Cue disgruntled cultural Catholic: only?

    Isn’t there a lengthy and impassioned conversation going on among Christian women of various denominations, much of it on this very Patheos, about “modesty” and “purity culture” and double standards and victim-blaming? Aren’t there similar conversations going on among Jewish and Muslim and Hindu women, also right here? And, lest we blame the problem entirely on religion, aren’t there atheist women who’ve encountered misogyny and marginalization in atheist circles? Aren’t there endless schlocky popularizations of sketchy evo-psych studies that all end up justifying the differential treatment of women and men by citing Nature rather than God?

    “All the kids are doing it” is not much of a defense, but it’s an accurate observation. If the Catholic Church miraculously disappeared tomorrow, gender inequities and double standards wouldn’t disappear with it.

    It matters, it seems to me, because it’s attacking the problem from the wrong end. It’s not that the Church causes sexism, it’s that sexism has infected the Church in the same way that it’s invaded most human activities. We don’t need to write off any tradition as irredeemable; we need to work on redeeming and reclaiming it.

    Our Lady Queen of Peace ought to be ashamed of itself. It ought to be ashamed, not because it’s Catholic, but because it’s failed to live up to what a Catholic school should be.

    (And any school named after Our Lady ought to be more sensitive to how it treats her daughters. )

  •  Sure, coal is solar, but it’s a hundred million years worth of solar compressed into rocks.

  • Eminnith

    In other news: “‘I hate to say it,’ he said, ‘but being a Christian is gonna trump being an American.'”

  • Suffragist and poet Alice Duer Miller came up with some great takeoffs on that anti-suffrage list in her 1915 book Are Women People?

    Why We Oppose Pockets for Women

    1. Because pockets are not a natural right.

    2. Because the great majority of women do not want pockets. If they did they
    would have them.

    3. Because whenever women have had pockets they have not used them.

    4. Because women are required to carry enough things as it is, without the
    additional burden of pockets.

    5. Because it would make dissension between husband and wife as to whose
    pockets were to be filled.

    6. Because it would destroy man’s chivalry toward woman, if he did not have
    to carry all her things in his pockets.

    7. Because men are men, and women are women. We must not fly in the face of

    8. Because pockets have been used by men to carry tobacco, pipes, whiskey
    flasks, chewing gum and compromising letters. We see no reason to suppose that
    women would use them more wisely.

    Why We Oppose Schools for soChildren
    (By the Children’s Anti-School League.)

    1. Because education is a burden, not a right.

    2. Because not one-tenth of one per cent. of the children of this country have demanded education.

    3. Because if we are educated we should have to behave as if we were and we don’t want to.

    4. Because it is essentially against the nature of a child to be educated.

    5. Because we can’t see that it has done  much for grown-ups, and there is
    no reason for thinking it will make children perfect.

    6. Because the time of children is already sufficiently occupied without
    going to school.

    7. Because it would make dissension between parent and child. Imagine the
    home life of a parent who turned out to be more ignorant than his (or her)

    8. Because we believe in the indirect education of the theatre, the baseball
    field and the moving picture. We believe that schools would in a great measure
    deprive us of this.

    9. Because our parents went to school. They love us, they take care of us,
    they tell us what to do. We are content that they should be educated for us.

    Why We Oppose Votes for Men

    1. Because man’s place is the armory.

    2. Because no really manly man wants to settle any question otherwise than by
    fighting about it.

    3. Because if men should adopt peaceable methods women will no longer look up
    to them.

    4. Because men will lose their charm if they step out of their natural sphere
    and interest themselves in other matters than feats of arms, uniforms and

    5. Because men are too emotional to vote. Their conduct at baseball games and
    political conventions shows this, while their innate tendency to appeal to force
    renders them peculiarly unfit for the task of government.

  • Shaenon

    I’m always baffled that people who call themselves Christians would berate and blame women for making men “stumble.”  They always pull out some obscure garment rule from Deuteronomy or Paul’s thing about wearing hats in church as their clobber verses.

    But in the Gospels, Jesus himself is extremely blunt on the subject of what a man should do if he’s troubled by a wandering eye.
    Maybe it’s my Catholic background that’s confusing me.  When evangelicals read the Bible, do they skip the red writing and just read everything else?

  •  From my experience they mostly don’t read any of it – they let the pastor do that and tell them what to think.

  • From my experience they mostly don’t read any of it – they let the pastor do that and tell them what to think.

    Which is textbook authoritarian follower behavior.  Someone who reads the whole thing through and is forced to think about how all the elements connect (or in some cases contradict) will have to start thinking about what to hold onto and what to reject in order to make the thing fit an internally cohesive mental model.  

    Just having someone tell you the highlight real requires so much less mental effort.  

  • Amaryllis

    And, oh, yes, to represent the period between 1916 and 1960, I meant to offer the Guide to Hiring Women from the 1943 issue of Transportation Magazine.
    Transportation didn’t approve of “strong language,” either– for men, that is: “Even though a girl’s husband or father may swear vociferously, she’ll grow to dislike a place of business where she hears too much of this.”

  • BaseDeltaZero

    “If woman should tempt ye, tear her up and throw her away.”

  • stardreamer42

     I’ve been thinking that Twitter should have a hashtag of #selflabelingasshole where people can RT that kind of comment. But I don’t use Twitter myself and so have no idea how to establish it.

  • stardreamer42

    Possible approach: If you have to pay $5/cf for garbage pickup but only $1/cf for recycling pickup, doesn’t it make sense to transfer as much of your garbage stream as possible into recycling? Even though you can’t completely eliminate the more-expensive garbage?

  • olsonam

    Thank you Fred for all the links about women.  You routinely post things about and by woman and it’s great that you have a whole post about these various issues.

    I think the title of the Beyonce article has helped me solidify conflicting ideas I’ve had about her performance.  I feel like she performed for the male gaze only, despite the audience being half female.  I would not want my daughter expressing her sexuality like that and I don’t think I’ll ever have to worry about my son being expected to perform like that.  I’ve also read a lot about being sex positive and how a lot of people seem to be slut shaming Beyonce.  So I’ve decided that while her performance isn’t helping feminism (in my opinion), criticizing her is a worse fault.

    And now I’m off to read the article about sharing our stories, because I’d like to but don’t think it’s really worth sharing.

  • Consumer Unit 5012

    Of all teh things I hate the Bush Administration for, the way they’ve managed to DEBASE this country is in the top three.  If someone had told me back in 1998 that by 2004 we’d have people on TV hairsplitting just how much TORTURE was ‘too much’, I’d’ve thought they were kooks.

  •  From my experience they mostly don’t read any of it – they let the pastor do that and tell them what to think.

    While simultaneously decrying Catholics (who have a long tradition of scholarship and arguing with the Church, even if the majority of them are as keen to participate in it as the children in point #2 above are about education) for “letting priests tell us what to think.”

  •  Also very true.

  • vsm

    So obtaining evidence via torture is be perfectly compatible with being an American but not being a Christian? That’s kind of a sad formulation.