»

Worship Leaders Shouldn't Talk

So I was speaking at the pretty cool youth event recently, and during the evening session, the ‘worship leader’ (as they like to be called), said something like this between songs:

“Isn’t it just great to be here…in the presence of the Lord…to be silent before him…yeah, it’s really great…cuz, you know, he’s always there for us…like, have you ever felt really ticked at God?…Yeah, you know, that’s okay for you to feel that way, because God can handle it…he’s okay with us being ticked at him, you know…but I’m not saying that God changes, cuz he doesn’t, cuz he created the universe, you know, so he doesn’t change.”

I am not bullshitting, that’s pretty much what was said.

Can we install electric buzzers in the little headsets that worship leaders wear so that whenever they say something theologically stoopid we can shock them?

Oh yeah, and if one more ‘worship leader’ tells me that I have to stand up, I may go postal.

  • Sivin Kit

    I can really relate to this …(I mean hearing “not-thought-through” or “parroting-what-they-heard” comments between songs) and I hope to tweak some of these “worship leaders” in a training I’m doing tonight and next tuesday. Thanks for the example … hope it’s ok to use it for “non-monetary-profit” only (for-theological-profit is a must I think)

  • Zach

    so i totally get this. i have witnesed it many times and don’t discount your efforts. but what really sucks, is when you wish the worship pastor was the one who actually preached the sermon. i know a worship pastor who often says things that really speak to me, much more than the normal pastor who often gives the actual message. i guess your only consolation is if the worship pastor is “kicking the knowledge” to the congregation, at least it’s only a limited amount of time……..

  • dave p

    I’d also like to just, thank you Lord for just, well, just outlawing, just, the word “just” from extemporaneous prayer. I don’t think that’s what anyone meant by saying we have a “just” God.

  • Null

    I thankfully don’t have to face that problem. Our worship leader is incredible. He’s also a pastor of our church, and speak the most profound loving things during worship.

  • the holly

    amen…that used to be me…and people wonder why i don’t “lead worship” anymore (in that way…i’m figuring out the liturgical end of worship in deeper ways).peace,the holly

  • Chequelin

    Well said dude.

  • Ronnie Whitehead

    As a “Worship Pastor” (which is the title given to me, not chosen) my job is to not only “lead the singin’” but to teach our people about worship.I’m sorry that you have the prevailing opinion that the “preacher” is the only one who has a lock on God speaking to you and through you. And .. if your song leader (more appealing term) uses the same language as you do, I would think that he SHOULD keep his mouth shut.But then, that’s just me.(sorry about the previous delete. I had too many typos)

  • Anonymous

    hey theology guy, we know you write books and stuff. But if you think profanity and obsenities are ok, I think you might be off track.

  • Chris Enstad

    Anonymous postings are worse then saying bullshit in my humble opinion.thanks for your honesty about this trend Tony. As you know I have a few hot buttons and this kind of stuff is one of them. That and the use of the word “just” in prayer as well as using “Lord” as a comma or place-holder while the prayer struggles to construct a complete sentence. Lord, I just, Lord, want to, Lord, give you thanks, Lord, and praise… I think that’s using the Lord’s name in vain… I teach our leaders to model prayer by using silence when they are unsure what to say next. Ok, good to see you blogging, peace out.

  • Phil Hull

    Was the worship leader Chris Tomlin? He says lots of silly stuff when he leads worship. (I would ask if it was David Crowder, but I don’t want to be stoned by the rest of the emergent community.)

  • tony

    Dude, that’s hilarious! The fact is, we haven’t stoned anyone in YEARS!

  • Phil Hull

    Well if I’m not going to get stoned, I’ve got a lot of crap I’ve been waiting to say. Tonight is my independence night!

  • Pick’s Blog

    Great discussion about the whole worship thing. There’s a lot that is done in a follow the leader kind of way that needs to be questioned. To quote Billy Foote Jr.: “Do we love worship or do we just dig cool music?”But speaking as a Senior Pastor in a church reaching unchurched young adults, I have no need to use foul language to make a point. It’s tempting, but so are a lot of other things. Go ahead and rip my opinion guys, but try using all that “emerging” creativity and find some better words.

  • Chris Enstad

    The thing I like best about the Bible is how unoffensive it is

  • dave p

    Well, the fact is this is only (OK, primarily) an issue in the Evangelical church. It’s the only (OK, primary) example of a liturgical setup that places a band on a platform out front and that has the “worship leader” (aka lead singer) gab on and on in between songs. Some are reasonably good extemporaneous speakers (not that that means they should distract the heck out of people with their yakking) but most vary from barely adequate to massive inarticulate distractions.Can we finally admit that singing can be worship but worship is by no means limited to singing? The Evangelical church is also the primary place where people worry about whether they’re doing it “right”. Should we be standing, kneeling, on our head, prostrate on the floor, doing cartwheels in the aisles? Amazingly enough you can find vehement and sincere proponents of all of these postures.As long as it keeps on happening, people should point it out.

  • Ronnie Whitehead

    I’m sorry that you folks are so bitter about evangelical churches. But that being said .. I think that the entire service should be a ebb and flow between us, as people, and God. That’s all I’m saying. How we do that will be determined on each churches objective and (yes, I’ll use the “T” word) Target.True, I have deep roots in evangelical churches, and some of those experiences were good and some were bad, but God is changing me and how I view and how I do church. Just because we don’t all “do church” the same way, doesn’t mean one is better than the other if we are each fulfilling the great commission of Jesus in Acts 1.

  • Ronnie Whitehead

    Sorry, the command of Jesus is in Matthew 28. I was reading something else when I was typing this.

  • Shok

    “Can we install electric buzzers in the little headsets that worship leaders wear so that whenever they say something theologically stoopid we can shock them?”now that would cause me to not only return to the circus. errr dog and pony show so commonly called “church” on sunday mornings but i would also become a prominent giver to such a worthy cause as long as we included this shoking device option on everyone gracing the stage … just tell me when and where … great stuff … and i ain’t bullshittin about this ;)

  • Chris Enstad

    tony,What is your take on the new language being used around worship? In just these past few comments I have read these words “worship leader” “stage” “band”, etc. etc. Also the trend towards words like “worship center” rather than Sanctuary and also the tendency of churches to remove the cross from the sanctuary. As for the worship leaders who say stoopid things I would agree with Ronnie that some good stuff happens and some bad, possibly the worship leader is hired more for their musical ability than their theological depth and if that is the case they should perhaps keep their mouths shut. All too often the worship leader has learned all of their theology from the songs they sing… which, perhaps, is a statement about the quality of the theology in contemporary Christian music.

  • Ronnie Whitehead

    I think Chris has a point. The person you hire needs to be more than just an accomplished musician. I think the heart is the place to start. I feel fairly confident in my musical skills, but I see myself as a call man of God more than I do a musician. I think it’s paramount that I be able to hear God not only in the selection of music, but in the presentation of the same.Terminology comes and goes, and I don’t think that whether you use contemporary terms or historical terms matters so much in determining how godly the terms are. I believe its in the heart and the presentation.I’d like to think that we’re all on the same team, trying to accomplish the same goal, that being in presenting Jesus to a hopeless world in such a way that He initiates life-change. Is everything we do perfect? No, of course not. But we are definitely seeing long term life change in the people who God is bringing our way and that we are seeking out.

  • Anonymous

    For your info, not everybody in this galaxy has a blogger acct to sign into, so our option is to leave a comment as anonymous. So there you go blogger folks. If you know my name is Jason and you can see me and fire critical comments off to me at jason@clcf.ca if you would like. and I still think it’s wrong that somebody who is suppose to be leading young people and youth leadership has such a foul mouth. It makes me think (maybe pre-maturely) that the fruit is not so good. Out of your heart, your mouth speaks. And Chris if your value system thinks profanity is on the smae level as leaving an anonymous post then you have a distorted value system. The world does not revolve around the internet. And on the topic of worship leading, not everyone is perfect. Do not despise the day of small beginings. We all start out somewhere far from perfect and it is by God’s grace we grow. We don’t usually grow by such harsh critisism. Why not take a moment to share with them in an encouraging way rather that piling on via the internet. Just a thought, to enhance the conversation.

  • Anonymous

    For your info, not everybody in this galaxy has a blogger acct to sign into, so our option is to leave a comment as anonymous. So there you go blogger folks. If you know my name is Jason and you can see me and fire critical comments off to me at jason@clcf.ca if you would like. and I still think it’s wrong that somebody who is suppose to be leading young people and youth leadership has such a foul mouth. It makes me think (maybe pre-maturely) that the fruit is not so good. Out of your heart, your mouth speaks. And Chris if your value system thinks profanity is on the smae level as leaving an anonymous post then you have a distorted value system. The world does not revolve around the internet. And on the topic of worship leading, not everyone is perfect. Do not despise the day of small beginings. We all start out somewhere far from perfect and it is by God’s grace we grow. We don’t usually grow by such harsh critisism. Why not take a moment to share with them in an encouraging way rather that piling on via the internet. Just a thought, to enhance the conversation.

  • Chris Enstad

    My value system: all of us have sinned and fallen short. We’re all in it together, if issues of a swear word here and present that big of a stumbling block because it causes you to fall into judgement of other people then that’s your problem, not Tony’s.

  • Anonymous

    Chis,You may be right BUT- As a fellow youth pastor who happened to click on this blog, I am dissapointed to find this kind of negative (albeit very funny & true) derrogative post. What is the point of using that kind of tone and language? Language aside he can make the same point in a manner that is much more edifying- Perhaps ask: How much should worship leaders interfere with God’s spirit? OR how much should we speak while leading worship? We all fallen & none of us are perfect, but that is not really the point. Tony, FWIW, your comments come off more as a careless rant than a postive conversation starter, if that’s what you’re trying to inspire. I don’t have a blogger account either. My name is Matthew Smith and I am a youth pastor in California. -Matt

  • Pick’s Blog

    Chris, that’s some spin on “stumbling”. Try reading Romans 14:13 forward and see where the Bible puts the responsibility. And check this out from Ephesians 4:29 (NIV) Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen. We really must be careful with all our words, whether they be foul or just critical.

  • Anonymous

    Hi this is jason again, mr. anonymous. I guess as a youth pastor as well. I am always looking for inspiration and actually really enjoyed tony’s part in the emergant stories book. (not sure of the exact name) It makes me constantly evaluate whether I am pastoring youth or becoming an event coordinator. I guess I am a little disappointed in his choice of actually typing profanity into his computer. I don’t want to be judgemental! My goal lately is to try harder not to be cynical or a know it all! But we can not live by the standards of this world. But holy God’s holy standards. Cos. 2:8 says we don’t live by the standards of man but of Jesus. We have died and now live live with Christ and should only appear when he does. So to Chris, and Tony, Peace to you. May our ministries prosper and help Jesus redeem this world.

  • Jordan Bateman

    I have a Blogger account, so this won’t be anonymous. In a lot of these commenters’ eyes, I guess that makes my dialogue/conversation more valuable. What a joke.Anyway, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with calling the emrging church movement to a higher place. Swearing is generally unnecessary (although I’d use it to shake something up if I had to). Why do we emergents make things more difficult for the institutional churches? Is swearing (or drinking or smoking or whatever) some sort of badge of honour that we can use to say we’re better than an IC pastor? Are we not called to make disciples of all nations–including the IC? Can we not let something as ultimately pointless as swearing fall byt the wayside for the sake of our brothers and sisters who are already scared to death of the emerging church and what it stands for? IS swearing so vital to our DNA?Of course not! It’s such a minor issue that we shouldn’t even be bothered talking about it. Submit one to another, Scripture counsels. If Jason is uncomfortable with cussing, then I, as his Christian brother, will try not to swear in conversation with him.Let’s save the holier-than-thou fights and attitudes for matters of importance, not sloppy language. Let’s use grace, mutual submission, kindness, and encouragement in our langauge, especially when we’re trying to redefine ‘church.’

  • Jason_73

    jordan, I didn’t know you were an “emergent” I almost feel betrayed. Does Jamal Lewis know about this? or anyone else at the well? and to all my new firends, I now have a blogger acct, and have thrown off the shackels of anonymous. Although, the Holy Spirit has been anonymous in a sense, so is it really that bad?

  • Jordan Bateman

    It’s true, Jason. We’re not there yet, but we’re trying. I can prove it: we lost half our congregation (the giving half, sadly) as we made some radical changes. It’s cost us almost everything, but it’s worth it…

  • Chris Enstad

    emergent = contemporary?When I hear folks say things like “we lost half the congregation because of radical changes”… I wonder why the changes were made and why it was determined it was worth the cost?I fear that the emergent phenomena is going the way of the contemporary worship wars, i.e. young people take over the church, chase away the old people, decide to do things “their” way, realize that none of them make any money, realize that multi-generational worship experiences are more of the church than niche marketing using key words and the philosophy of the moment.Acts 2: ALL were together and held everything in common… could that be construed as worship styles?

  • Chris Enstad

    If we’re going to start “versing” each other it should be fun. If Tony had said, “it’s like the stuff that comes from a bull’s ass” would that have been better? I think that calling something what it is, bullshit in this case, definetly caught people’s attention and sparked a edifying discussion on worship leaders who think they are preachers. What would have counted as vile talk to Paul in reference to the issues the church in Ephesus was facing? Perhaps it was more about talk about splitting apart from one another, no?

  • Jordan Bateman

    I find your suggestion, without knowing any of the facts of our church’s journey or experience, to be a bit trite, but whatever. One of the great weaknesses of the Christian world today is that telling our own story/perspective seems to be more important than hearing someone else’s.As for your points, I’ll just say that we as a church have been walking out this journey for seven years, in complete obscurity. We like it that way. We’ve made mistakes and had incredible successes. We believe in multigenerationalism and we are focused on becoming transformed, relational, missional, and grace-filled. It was worth the cost because we believe that God is calling us to do it. We try to use terms to describe this thing and we find them clunky and ill-fitting–but we know God is leading us somewhere and that those who have travelled with us on this path have matured in Him. So we press on.

  • Anonymous

    As somebody who leads worship sometimes I…er…just want to…er…really say that, you know, there’s a real…er…need to be…er…just real about this, and…er…be open and just…er…spontaneous.So…er…there.Howard

  • Jason_73

    you know chris, If we could figure out just 1% of what there cultural standards were, we could solve thousands of problems. I think it makes sense that Jesus said, even if you call your brother a fool you are in danger of the fires of hell. For you to say that we’re “out-versing” each other seems like an easy cop-out. So where do we draw the line with your reasoning. What sin is acceptable to “stir-up” the conversation? You know the nad-words almost seem less important to me now in relation to this seeming justification for everything.James warns that the tongue is like wild fire, or a rudder on a ship, should we be quick to ignore that? Just curious, where do you draw the line?

  • Anonymous

    Methinks some of you better wipe your noses, since you’re so far up this guy’s ass that ou can’t smell shit when you see it.

  • Jordan Bateman

    Now THAT’S cussing!

  • Ronnie Whitehead

    I can just see guys out there cutting and pasting that for their own message notes. Boy, what I’d give to hear THAT sermon.My point is … there actually are people out there who lead worship, sing songs, tell pages, wave their arm, etc. who actually ‘do’ hear God and who are articulate. There are times when we are doing our job or ministry or whatever term is acceptable, that God speaks, and like Peter, we can’t help but speak and to not do so would be wrong. I’ve heard guys who couldn’t speak their way out of a paper bag. Yes, those guys don’t need to be saying anything. But don’t be arrogant enough to think that in your little circle of experience that you’ve ‘seen them all’.I’m a man of God, called by Him; ordained by the same, and by the local church.Matthew 7:1-61 “Do not judge so that you will not be judged. 2 “For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you. 3 “Why do you look at the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? 4 “Or how can you say to your brother, `Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ and behold, the log is in your own eye? 5 “You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye. 6 “Do not give what is holy to dogs, and do not throw your pearls before swine, or they will trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.

  • Mike

    I’m laughing inside b/c I’ve seen way too many “worship leaders” do this very thing. I agree, there are those who are very articulate while they lead, which is appreciated. Being a “worship leader” myself, it is extremely important that worship leaders have a good framework theologically as they lead in music. So many songs (and I know there are some that are not) are theologically rich that sometimes they need to be explained well (esp. the hymns of old). As far as the “bull” comment..it’s sad to see how much discussion rages from one word. I don’t think it would’ve been my first choice (even though it might be the most accurate), there are other words that could convey the same meaning, the point is still the same. And I was waiting for the Matthew 7 passage to come out in the swearing discussion. It cracks me up that people are heaping judgment when they use the passage (which kind of defeats the purpose, right?) :) Well, anyhow, appreciate the insight Tony.

  • Ronnie Whitehead

    The use of the Matthew 7 passage was not intended as a judgmental statement. It was intended in the same manner in which I believe Christ use it. We must be careful how we point fingers at people when we, ourselves, have things to deal with. Was Jesus being judgmental? Some would say ‘yes’. I realized a long time ago that I don’t have all my ducks in a row. And being an ‘outsider’ in this little group, I was merely making my opinions known. I see us all, pretty much, in the same boat on this judgmental thing. Excuse me while I go clean out my eye.

  • Stephen Parker

    Guys you seem a bit hostile to me,opinion is just that, John 12:24-25″Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone, but if it die it bringeth forth much fruit”I would encourage you to fall into the fertile ground of Christ and die to your “stinking egos”, then you will spring forth in the “Much fruit of Christ”. There is nothing in all the world like this high calling of Christ, reaching people for Christ. I’ve been privileged to lead 100′s to Christ in 22 years of ministry, but I would never have made it had I not reached the end of myself and died that I might be ressurrected into the abundance of Christ. Git-it-done guys and gals, we need you!!

  • Gangai

    Some of you speak a lot of sense, but so many of you seem totally lost in a sea of terminology [alternate, emerging, contemporary blah blah blah] :) If the Worship Leader goofs up, then a senior or elder has to help train him/her to become better….before putting him/her on stage again.But for the unnecessary foul language, it is a thoughtful post actually! Many Worship Leaders do speak needless stuff before and after every other song….again, what they need is proper guidance and training, not foul languge-filled sarcastic comments/opinions!Blessings!

  • http://joemartino.name Joe Martino

    Haha, OK, I agree 100%. I’ve been saying this for years. Along with hating the title “worship leaders” I have always said, they need to stop trying to preach sermonettes or work through their own prayer issues while they’re “leading” worship.

  • http://www.bigmikelewis.blogspot.com Big Mike Lewis

    You could say “I’m not kidding you” or “I ain’t lyin’.” It means the same thing.

    Jussayin.

  • Dave

    i don’t have a blogger account and it asks me for my name. it looks like it is then published under my name. is this true or do you all see my posts coming from “anonymous”?

    anyway.

    as some one who facilitates singing in our services (i actually don’t consider singing worship… well, maybe that is too harsh. i would call it praise which i would separate from worship since i believe true worship entails sacrifice. the worship that takes place in most protestant churches is when the buckets are passed… but maybe i’m just greedy!), i agree with the original post (cussing and all). i do think that most of the time, cussing is unnecessary, but i think that sometimes a point needs to be made so strongly that “heck” and “fudge” and “dagnabbit” just don’t cut it. it is not unwholesome talk if the word actually helps to drive home a truthful and edifying point. the only thing i would question is whether this post was edifying (for the context of a blog tends to be a rant more often than not rather than really trying to build some one or teach some one).

    i do speak sometimes in between songs. but i also have (and continue to) studied theology and am pretty selective about the songs we sing. i think there is a lot of bad theology in contemporary Christian music. i think the hymns are far better, but maybe redone in a more contemporary style.

    i heard derek webb once say, “you should hate every third song sung in church because some one else hates all the ones you love.” i think that is so true.

    a song facilitator should speak if:
    1. they have something personal to share that they have planned to share and thought out ahead of time. our pastors don’t just get up there and “let the Spirit move”. they have crafted their words so that more can be touched, moved, inspired by them.
    2. there is a need to explain a song. many of the old hymns contain some deep theology and might need to be talked about some… especially in more contemporary churches where most are not familiar with the theological terms. however, they should have planned this as well. they planned the songs ahead of time right?
    3. they are actually teaching a song that no one knows and they need to give them some guidance on how it goes.

    those are the only times they should insert themselves in the midst of people singing to God how they feel/think about Him and what He is to the world. other than that… to quote ann coulter (and please…. i am anything but a fan of hers) “shut up and sing!”

  • Dave

    man, that was long. i am damn sorry.

    (see, i am really sorry, but really is really overused and has really lost its meaning so i felt it necessary to really express my sorrow but using a stronger word than really)

  • http://www.cindybryan.com cindy

    as a song leader i do talk. i almost always say, “hi- it’s good to see you this morning” and “let’s sing.” and sometimes i say, “hey, y’all didn’t know that one, did you?”

    i usually regret saying so much.

  • Jim Krill

    You people are so critical… It bugs me too, but I don’t see how bitching about it is going to change anything… all it really does is allow all of you who are annoyed by this sort of thing to feel good by bashing on uneducated, emotionally charged, shouldn’t-be-LEADING-worship-anyway, “worship leaderes”.

  • Brian

    Just one more reason why I cannot stand “contemporary” worship with “worship leaders.” Between the theologically and aesthetically bankrupt services to the simplistic, inane drivel like this it is no wonder that so many people are avoiding “church.”

  • Dave

    jim and brian,
    tell us what you really think. lol

  • http://www.weshunter.net Wes

    Alright, so worship leaders shouldn’t talk, fair enough. But, then no lay people, or anyone without theological education should talk in worship, or at least not into the microphone. [At least that way we can guarantee that everyone who ever gets to talk into a mic will know to use one of the following words; 1) paradigm, 2) postmodern, 3) contextualize, or 4) emerging]

    Maybe, if we really work at it, we can stop people without theological education from even coming to worship.

    I’m a worship leader and a seminary student, so i take worship leading and theology seriously; and I hate talking between songs unless its a song I write and needs explaining. But I shouldn’t have to clear what i say with people who are hip to all the trendy theological buzzwords to be honest about what God is doing in my life or through my music, nor should anyone else. Don’t discount God’s ability to work in art just because Moltmann doesn’t talk about it and Brian McLaren’s songs sound like they were written by a high-school kid.

    I bet God doesn’t give a shit about buzzwords. And I have a hunch God would rather talk about art and music than theology and doing ministry in the postmodern paradigm.

    Without question, some worship leaders are idiots, but so are some pastors, and so are a lot of parishioners. Blaming the worship leader for doing what people want them to do is like blaming Fox for making foxnews. . . yes, it caters to idiots, and it’s wrong, but if people didn’t like it, it would go away. And most worship leaders are artists, not theologians. They just want to be able to make art for God, so lighten up.

    Here’s what I recommend; if you have a worship leader coming into your church that you’re unsure about, go up to them ahead of time and tell them, “every time you’re about to say ‘just’ in your prayer, please substitute either ‘postmodern’ or ‘paradigm’ (or whatever your current favorite church buzzword is)” It probably won’t make sense to the average struggling Christian, or to anyone who deals in traditional English, but they probably don’t fit into your paradigm anyway, so screw ‘em. Then light some candles and be done with it.

    I know you mean well with all this, theology is important. But, this whole post is an attack on one of the symptoms of bad theology in churches everywhere, not one of the causes. If you want to change it, don’t start with the guy playing guitar, start with the system that taught him what worship leaders are supposed to sound like talking into microphones. Or you can try to master singing, playing, and songwriting like your worship leader and then you won’t need him/her. Either way, lighten up. Don’t overestimate the power of “proper” theology and don’t underestimate the potential power of less-than-proper art. The difference in how bad your worship leader misses the mark and how bad you miss it is VERY small in the grand scheme of things.

    my $.02

  • http://www.ojaicommunity.blogspot.com Ryan Smith

    Thanks for reposting Tony,

    2 observations:
    1) I think that the Church may have progressed a bit as “bullshitting” seems to be much more acceptable, and less offensive, than it was four years ago.
    2) Maybe it hasn’t progressed enough, as the scenario you portrayed is still happening in countless congregations around the world.

  • Lee

    If you enjoy criticizing so much. I bet you can do a better job. So learn the guitar some worship songs, and show us worship leaders how it’s done. That is one of the lamest comments someone can make. It has some valid points, but the way you made it sound was not cool.

  • http://christcoffee.blogspot.com Ben Burch

    Tony,

    I really enjoy a lot of your writing and a lot of your thoughts. Also, as a worship leader myself, I agree with your frustration on this issue. I also have no problem with the fact that you used the word shit, oddly enough, if you study the NT Greek well enough you’ll realize that when Paul uses the word “Scupula,” the best translation we can have would say “shit.” Sometimes other words don’t cut it, and sometimes it’s the people saying “crap” who dilute themselves into believing thier heart said something different, and afterall, that’s the thing MY LORD looks at.

    However, i struggle with the tone and heart of this blog. So much frustration can be expressed in more constructive ways. There really was nothing constructive about this blog, it just created negative feelings. Your blog is extremely popular and I believe a lot of people learn a lot of good insights from you. I also allow that you have your faults as anyone does, that’s what makes us the messed up family of YHWH. However, I just really believe in being “above reproach.” That doesnt mean you can’t be honest and real, i think that’s where above reproach starts, the only thing is that I feel that when we are frustrated and when we are critical, the only way to be Faithful to the Spirit of God is to be constructive in what we do and say.

    All that being said, everyone else, why has there been so much bickering? Come on, I am dead sick of blogs where christians spat back and forth and say nothing constructive to one another. Now there have been a lot of constructive talk, but really most of it has just been banter back and forth and really isn’t worth a lot to the Church (Instituional, Emerging, Whatever, we are ALL the body of CHrist and meant to work together to do HIS work). I long for these blogs and these voices commenting on these blogs to be a part of God’s redemptive work. We need to be lifting up the Truth of God together, drawing from the great traditions of the past, as well as the innovative approaches and thougths of the Emerging Church.

    Tony, I know your main theme is Love, and how God is Love. Use a little more love next time you write a blog like this. That’s all I’m sayin. You have an amazing platform to teach, use it wisely, as you typically do.

  • http://blog.emergingworshiper.org Ken

    Sorry to arrive late to this, but…

    Why can’t you people take a fucking joke?!

    Wow. That felt good. Thanks.

  • Pingback: Tony Jones on (Re)Imagining Christianity – Pomomusings


CLOSE | X

HIDE | X