President’s Day From A Christian Perspective

President’s Day From A Christian Perspective February 19, 2018

Is President’s Day just another federal and state holiday, or, is there reason to celebrate this day?

The Christian Perspective

I believe President’s Day is a good time to look back at the history of past U.S. presidents. Flawed as they may be, and as we are I might add, they hold some unique individual histories before and while holding office, but even the past U.S. presidents, whether they believed or not, “must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive what is due for what he has done in the body, whether good or evil” (2nd Cor 5:10). According to several Scriptures, I believe they will be held to a higher standard and be held more accountable than most of us will be, because where much responsibility is given, much will be required (Luke 12:48). Abraham Lincoln is among my favorite U.S. presidents. This man held office during one of the most tumultuous times in our nation’s history, and worst since the American Revolutionary War. President Lincoln served during the American Civil War, a time when the nation was deeply divided…when North and South were ripping the nation in half; where brother fought against brother and father against son, so the death and destruction of the war took its toll on the nation as well as President Lincoln. One thing I’ve noticed when looking at photos over a president’s term, is that the years take their toll in a more rapid fashion than before. It’s like the weight of such titanic responsibilities slowly crush the person holding them. Ultimately, we know that God “changes times and seasons; he removes kings and sets up kings; he gives wisdom to the wise and knowledge to those who have understanding” (Dan 2:21), and “it is God who executes judgment, putting down one and lifting up another” (Psalm 75:7), so it was in God’s sovereignty that President Abraham Lincoln served during the American Civil War…and that should change the way we should look at history.

The Supreme Ruler

Kings have come and gone here on earth, but there is One King who is coming Who will never face reelection nor have to run for office. That’s because it is He Who “on his thigh he has a name written, King of kings and Lord of lords” (Rev 19:16). This King was long ago prophesied by the psalmist who wrote, “I will appoint him to be my firstborn, the most exalted of the kings of the earth” (Psalm 89:27), and “will bring about in his own time–God, the blessed and only Ruler, the King of kings and Lord of lords, who alone has immortality, who dwells in unapproachable light, whom no one has ever seen or can see. To him be honor and eternal dominion. Amen.” (1st Tim 6:15-16). Clearly this refers to “Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood” (Rev 1:5), but before this Ruler establishes the New Jerusalem out of heaven on earth (Rev 21:1-2), the nations “will wage war against the Lamb, but the Lamb will triumph over them because he is Lord of lords and King of kings–and with him will be his called, chosen and faithful followers” (Rev 17:14).

God’s Obvious Existence

The Bible says, “The heavens declare the glory of God, and the sky above proclaims his handiwork” (Psalm 19:1), and “since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities–his eternal power and divine nature–have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse” (Rom 1:20), because “what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them” (Rom 1:19), so God’s existence is declared or proclaimed throughout the Word of God and throughout the creation. God’s existence as Creator is obvious by “what has been made,” because “God has shown it,” so it’s foolish to deny the obvious existence of God (Psalm 14:1-2). Certainly, the vast majority of U.S. presidents have professed the belief in God.  In fact, we can read about their belief in God in their writings.  The existence of God is made plain even in the language of the U.S. Constitution, where it says this was “Done in Convention by the Unanimous Consent of the States present the Seventeenth Day of September in the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven and of the Independence of the United States of America” (Article VII).  The Lord is mentioned by name, and even the number of years since our Lord was born into human flesh; a dating system we employ even today. During George Washington’s first Proclamation as President he said “it is the duty of all nations to acknowledge the providence of Almighty God, to obey His will, to be grateful for His benefits, and humbly to implore His protection and favor.” [1] It is not hard to see that the fundamental principles and laws of our nation were not based upon human wisdom or philosophy, but they were based upon the Ten Commandments and the ethics of Jesus Christ.

To him be honor and eternal dominion. Amen.

The Bible

In Article II, Section One, and in Clause 8 of the United States Constitution, the elected president must take an oath before they can begin their presidency, and although there is no law that forces them to place their hand on the Bible during their oath of office, it has long been a tradition because of the Christian heritage of the nation, and most of the U.S. presidents have followed this tradition. The oath states, “Before he enter on the Execution of his Office, he shall take the following Oath or Affirmation:—”I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States,” however the Presidential Oath Clause requires much more than this general oath of allegiance and fidelity. This clause enjoins the President to swear or affirm that he “will to the best of [his or her] ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.” Historically, the new president has placed his hand on the Bible when swearing or affirming the oath of the presidency as a way of affirming their loyalty to the nation and having God as their witness.

Conclusion

God’s name might not appear in the U.S. Constitution per se but the framers of the Constitution believed that “the heavens proclaim his righteousness, for he is a God of justice” (Psalm 50:6), and the early writings of most past U.S. Presidents infer God’s obvious existence. Some modern historical revisionists want to change the fact that that this nation was not founded by Christians but by secularists, but history cannot be changed. It might be changed in the history books or by modern, secular historians, but they cannot change what the true historical facts are, any more than they can prove that God does not exist (Psalm 14:1-2; Rom 1:18-20).

Article by Jack Wellman

Jack Wellman is Pastor of the Mulvane Brethren Church in Mulvane Kansas. Jack is a writer at Christian Quotes and also the Senior Writer at What Christians Want To Know whose mission is to equip, encourage, and energize Christians and to address questions about the believer’s daily walk with God and the Bible. You can follow Jack on Google Plus or check out his book Teaching Children the Gospel available on Amazon.

1. Vol 1. Messages and Papers of the Presidents, p. 64 (1896).

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What Are Your Thoughts?leave a comment
  • pud

    More of your stupidity and bullshit on display…

    “but they cannot change what the true historical facts are, any more than they can prove that God does not exist”

    Do you understand the concept of “burden of proof”? Of course you don’t! Anything that threatens your delusional dysfunctional world view has to be ignored! Let me spell it out for you dummy….The burden of proof lies with anyone making the claim! If I claim that Bigfoot is real it is up to me to provide the evidence to support that claim not you to prove that Bigfoot doesn’t exist! If this were not the case then every stupid ridiculous claim would be as valid as the next from alien abductions to Elvis still living. See how it works you blind demented old man?

    Secondly…I CAN PROVE that no “god” or “gods” exist and have offered you and everyone else who wastes their time here the same challenge….define the terms “exist” and “god” and I’ll PROVE that none do or can “exist”

    Thirdly….It’s laughable you referring to “historical truth” when you and your delusional cult have exactly NONE for you absurd fairy tale book! There is NO actual true historical evidence for ANYTHING in your deranged book save some names and places that any idiot can confirm. There is NO actual historical evidence for moses, jesus, floods, talking snakes, mythical gardens or men living in fish! NONE. ZERO. Yet crazy infantile people like you accept as 100% true the contents of a stupid book whose authors you know nothing about written thousands of years ago by superstitious religious lunatics! How fucked up is that?

    And finally…The religious disposition of our founding fathers has NOTHING to do with life in the 21st century. Franklin, Jefferson, Paine were at best “deists” and more likely “atheists” They lived at the dawn of the scientific era in a new nation populated by uneducated nut cases like you…so what? The purposefully set up a SECULAR government to protect the rational from religious lunatics like you. The 1st amendment expressly forbids any state sponsored cult. It doesn’t matter what they or anyone “believes” you fool…what matters is what’s demonstrably TRUE!

    And that ain’t you or your warped infantile fantasy death cult.

    • jamesparson

      You forgot the talking donkeys

      • pud

        hee haw

    • Kyra Lynne

      Stop right there, Pud. You have never and will never “prove” that no god exists. You yourself told ME that you cannot “prove” the nonexistence of something. You contradict your own words.

      • pud

        I can prove logically through rational argument that your “god” CANNOT possibly exist….

        Define “god”

        Define “exist”

        And I’ll show you

        • Kyra Lynne

          No, Pud, I ain’t playing that game with you again. This time YOU are going to try to convince me, not vice-versa. I’m ready. Try to convince this “vulnerable, ignorant, hayseed” that my God doesn’t exist. Do it.

          • pud

            Sure but we have to agree to the definitions first. You have to define “god” and “exist” so that we’re talking about the same things. No argument can be made without first defining terms. I need to know how you define “god” and “exist” so that I can show that your understanding of both is flawed and a contradiction which is the proof

          • Kyra Lynne

            You want my definition or the dictionary’s definition?

          • pud

            You claim that “god” “exists” yes or no?

            I assume that you do

            So you provide a definition that you’re comfortable with for “god” and “exist”

          • Kyra Lynne

            Okay, Pud. On one condition.

          • pud

            This isn’t a trick question. In order to offer a logical proof we have to be clear on terms. This is true for any argument. I have to know the definition of “god” and “exist” so that we are clear what we’re talking about.

          • Kyra Lynne

            Ha! Any question with you is a trick question lol.

            But, yes, I know, and I’m planning on answering it. But I don’t want to engage you unlees you tell me that you’ll keep it civil. I don’t want this to be like other conversations we’ve had. Are you cool with that?

          • pud

            Sure. I only want to demonstrate to you that your “god” cannot “exist” Hopefully you’ll open your eyes then and discard this terrible cult you’ve been indoctrinated into

          • Kyra Lynne

            Hmm. I didn’t expect you to go that easily. Okay, that sounds good to me. I’ll get back to you 🙂

          • Kyra Lynne

            “God: The being believed in monotheistic religions such as Judaism, Islam, and Christianity to be the all-powerful all-knowing creator of the universe, worshiped as the only god.”
            I’m using this for “god”

            Exist: “To be, especially to be a real, actual, or current thing, not merely something imagined or written about.” And: “To be present or found in a particular place or situation.” How’s that? Now it’s your turn I suppose…

          • pud

            Fair enough…Let’s start with your definition of “exist”

            “real” “actual” “to be found in a place”……How do we KNOW that something is real, actual or can be found in a particular place? What is the defining characteristics something must have to be real or actual?

            You try and then I’ll tell you

          • Kyra Lynne

            Good question. Well, I’d say that seeing what “god” does would mean His existence. Where else would miracles come from?

          • pud

            Terrible answer that doesn’t even answer the question. You can’t demonstrate that “miracles” happen and you have NO evidence that “god” is the agent responsible for anything…those are all baseless unsupported “claims”

            Now don’t go off on a tangent if you want my proof!

            Answer the question…which is applicable to everything not just “god” stuff….answer this direct question

            How do we KNOW that something is real, actual or can be found in a particular place? What is the defining characteristics something must have to be real or actual?

          • Kyra Lynne

            *sighs* Augh. Whatever, dude.
            We know something is real when it interacts with the world, yes or no? We know what we see is real (for the most part) yes or no?

          • pud

            Not entirely…you don’t have to be able to “see” something to determine that it “exists” The defining characteristic of “exist” is SHAPE. For something to “exist” it must have SHAPE, a border, an outline, be distinguishable from the background of space which is nothing. If an object doesn’t have SHAPE then it is indistinguishable from empty space and is therefore nothing and therefore doesn’t exist.

            Only OBJECTS have shape….would you agree?

            Only OBJECTS can interact with other OBJECTS…would you agree?

            The only other “state” that “something” can occupy is a CONCEPT….would you agree?

            All “things” must either be an OBJECT or a CONCEPT…would you agree?

          • Kyra Lynne

            Hey! I thought I was going to be the one asking the questions! jk
            I believe I agree on those things except that it technically doesn’t apply to a “god.”
            “gods” are supposed to be supernatural….would you agree?
            You cannot “distinguish” something “supernatural”….would you agree?
            So. Your questions don’t really make any sense. Do they.

          • pud

            We agree that that “things” are only objects or concepts correct?

            We agree that objects exist because they have shape, can be measured, are separate from the background of space correct?

            To “claim” that some supernatural thing has some special status is called “special pleading” which is a logical falacy

            Define “supernatural” and show that such a state “exists”….you’re making the claim that it does….now SHOW that it does or, like all your other claims and assertions, it is a vacuous meaningless “claim”

          • Kyra Lynne

            I already gave you the definition of “supernatural”…you must not of seen it yet.
            I suppose.

          • pud

            Yes or No….Everything fits into one of two categories….either it’s an “object” or it’s a “concept”

            This is the critical part….answer yes or no. If you answer “No” then show an example of something that doesn’t fit one of these only 2 possibilities

          • Kyra Lynne

            Yes. Methinks.

          • Kyra Lynne

            “Supernatural: Relating to or attributed to phenomena that cannot be explained by natural laws.”
            Therefore, God can’t be explained by natural laws.

          • pud

            Can you measure it? Detect it? Does it have the defining characteristic of existence “shape”?

            What is the difference between undetectable and non-existent?

          • Kyra Lynne

            Okay, Pud. You are not giving evidence. You’re just asking pointed questions that I have to answer for the fun of it.
            So now it’s time for you to cough it up. Where’s your evidence that God doesn’t exist?

          • pud

            You have to follow the entire train of thought…I’m trying to walk you through it step by step.

            Are the only 2 possibilities either an “object” which exists or a “concept” which doesn’t exist?

            Remember that the characteristic trait of “exist” is that it has shape, is separate from the background of space, can be measured and detected. Concepts are relationships between objects that “exist” Concepts do not actually “exist” but are descriptions of the relationship between objects that do exist

            Agree?

          • Kyra Lynne

            Fine. Agreed.

          • pud

            Ok…so then “god” must be either an object or a concept….yes?

          • Kyra Lynne

            Ummm. I suppose. *knows this isn’t going where she wants it to*

          • pud

            You don’t have to “suppose” these 2 are the ONLY possibilities

            So….if “god” is a concept then “god” doesn’t exist….true? “god” is merely the relationship between some objects that exist like the concept of “justice” for example. “Justice” doesn’t exist…it’s not an object….it is the description we give to the relationship between people (objects) You can’t put a pound of “justice” on the table right? “Justice” doesn’t have the defining characteristic of existence (shape) does it? So “justice” doesn’t actually exist but is instead a “concept” or a description of the interplay between objects (humans)…ok?

            Is your “god” a concept? If so then “god” cannot exist…correct?

          • Kyra Lynne

            Well, I don’t entirely agree with that. Just because justice is a concept doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. Love is a concept…but I’d say it exists.

          • pud

            No…”love” doesn’t “exist” it is also a “concept” Can you put a pound of “love” on the table? Can you measure it? Does it have shape? No it doesn’t. “Love” is a description of the relationship between two or more OBJECTS that do exist. It is not a “thing” it is a description. In actuality “love” is a chemical response whereby certain hormones and parts of the brain are activated due to some stimuli. Emotions do not “exist” they too are bio chemical reactions. They do not have “shape” but are the descriptive product of the relationship between objects that do exist.

            We already agreed that only “objects” with the defining characteristic of “shape” can exist. Everything else must therefore be a “concept” Love, justice etc are therefore absolutely “concepts” not objects so therefore do NOT actually exist. If you were the only being in the universe could there be such a thing as “love” or “justice”? NO! You must have 2 or more OBJECTS for these concepts proving that love and justice etc cannot exist.

          • Kyra Lynne

            Sounds relatively reasonable.
            But. You said it takes 2 objects to have love? Ha! Have you met half of the teen to young adult guys these days? They love themselves to pieces! Lol *shakes head* It’s called self-love. Pretty common, unfortunately.

          • pud

            Without other humans to interact with there couldn’t even be self love. Love is a concept that developed amongst groups not individuals. You would have nothing to contrast your opinion of yourself if you were the only human to have ever existed.

            So is “god” a concept or an object? The only 2 choices possible

          • Kyra Lynne

            I’m not so sure. But I guess we’ll never know, will we?
            What do you think?

          • pud

            “god” is a concept. Now if you continue I’ll show you why and actually why it doesn’t matter if “god” is a concept or an object…he’s not what you claim.

            “god” MUST be one or the other….a concept or an object…which?

          • Kyra Lynne

            Show me. I’m being vulnerable for your benefit.

          • pud

            Since “god” can only be one of 2 states..either an object or a concept…we can declare that if “god” is a concept it does NOT exist. One down. The conceptual “god” cannot exist

            That leaves only “object” as a choice.

            What is the defining characteristic of an “object”? It has shape! Without “shape” any “object” is indistinguishable from the nothingness of space.

            Therefore “god” as an “object” is subordinate to space! Space is “gods” jailer. “god” cannot exist absent space to surround and define him.Space defines “god” “god” doesn’t define space.

            Further….ALL objects conform to the laws of nature. EVERY SINGLE ONE must and does obey the laws of motion, gravity etc…there are no exceptions and you’re welcome to offer one if you doubt this

            That makes “god” nothing but another “object” in the universe no different than a tree or asteroid and NOT the controlling superbeing who creates the laws but rather a mere object beholden to all the laws….an advanced form of life maybe? Some super alien perhaps? But just another OBJECT subject to the same rules of nature that you are thus making your conception of him IMPOSSIBLE

          • Kyra Lynne

            Idk what I’m supposed to say to that…
            But if (yes, if, for your benefit) He created the laws of nature and gravity then why would He be subject to them? If He has the power to create these things, then He must have the ability to defy them.

          • pud

            Objects CANNOT create the rules by which objects exist! “god” is a concept or object. Full stop. As an object it is subject TO the laws of nature. A rock is subordinate to the law of gravity, a rock does not create gravity. A rock exists because of gravity. This thing you want to call “god” exists as some super being object subject TO the laws of nature. It is IMPOSSIBLE to define existence outside of space and time! Without space and time there is no existence whatsoever as every object is dependent upon space and time to define its existence. You cannot create magical impossibilities. EVERYTHING is either a concept or an object…no exceptions. ALL objects are subject to the laws of physics..no exceptions!

            Space and time define existence! No space, no time = non existence! Nothing! If a “god” were posited to have no space and no time then it cannot exist! It would be nothing!

          • Kyra Lynne

            W-H-A-T-E-V-E-R.

          • pud

            Don’t “whatever” me. I showed you through rational argument why your concept is false. It doesn’t matter what you “feel”! “Feelings” are not truths. This is not “science” speaking it is logic and rational thinking. You have to demonstrate the causal connection between your “feelings” and this “being” or you’re just as delusional as the person claiming their lottery win was because of their lucky rabbits foot. How can you not see this? If you’re satisfied making baseless claims then you cannot be a rational thinking adult…you live in make believe just like the guy and his rabbits foot. You MUST show causal connections between claims and causes or you have nothing but idle claims!

          • Kyra Lynne

            Okay, okay, I apologize for “whatever-ing” you. You’ve done much worse to me, I figured you could handle it lol.
            I look at it this way…now try to follow me; I am happy. I am at peace. I believe what I believe and I think it to be the truth. I have the assurance of my faith and I have Jesus to help thru anything.
            You, on the other hand, are mean and spiteful. You insult Christians and cuss and make sure everyone else feels small and insignificant. You are angry.
            Which sounds more reasonable? Which sounds more likely to be true? I’m not talking about science here, Pud. I’m talking about real people.

          • pud

            You are wrong on all counts.

            I am not angry. I hold your cult and all other religious cults in abject contempt for the lie and superstition they perpetuate

            You may be happy…that’s great…but you do not have “jesus” you have a lucky rabbits foot. A make believe answer. A made up explanation because you’re either unable or unwilling to face reality truthfully and honestly. You have a fabricated security blanket. You are willfully delusional and you do not care for what is actually true. You have a nice life and attribute it to some absurd cult doctrine while you ignore all the suffering in the world that your lucky rabbit foot jesus does nothing whatsoever about. You live in a fantasy world which is too bad as you’re obviously better and brighter than that.

            And you suffer from an extreme obscene lack of humility….It’s all about you and what invisible jesus does for you while millions of pleading praying suffering slobs suffer and die beseeching the same invisible rabbits foot as you do for all your petty well off american life desires.

            We are all small and insignificant….a brute fact of nature…rational intelligent mature people accept that….delusional infantile people invent magical friends

          • Kyra Lynne

            Really? I’m not one to sit on my lazy backside and insult atheists all day. How would you know what I’m doing? How do you know I’m not in a mission in Uganda, feeding and helping the dying children? You really should be more careful of what you accuse people of. Especially when you have nothing to back yourself up.
            And you say you’re not angry; you just have “contempt” certain groups of people, who are absolutely, positively NO DIFFERENT then you, excepting in our beliefs. We are humans too, Pud. Humans with hearts and passions and the need for the truth. We’re all searching, it just so happens that some find Jesus while others find “contempt.” Maybe you should stop looking at every Christian you come across as a “religious lunatic” and start looking at us as people. Because that’s what we are.

          • pud

            You are people. People can be lunatics. The religious are people who are also lunatics. You are different from me because you reject reason and dwell in make believe. You have contempt for the truth and you propagate your absurd cult wherever you go infecting gullible minds with your demonstrably false dogma and ideology. You are dangerous…you vote…you try to command how others should live….you and your cult are authoritarians who made life on earth a living hell for vast swaths of humanity from the inquisition to the eradication of native peoples. You should be ashamed of calling yourself a “christian” It’s an admission that you’re gullible, credulous and indifferent to truth and reality. Religion poisons everything it touches because it infects you to the core! You dish out guilt and shame and hellfire threats and offer magical cures if only people check their critical thinking skills at the door and “believe” nonsense.

            Anyone who disregards reason in favor of make believe is a lunatic.

            Doesn’t matter what you’re doing, this is about you rejecting reason in favor of make believe. No one needs to “believe” in religious fantasy to do good things for others.

          • Kyra Lynne

            *sees you throwing “civil” out the window*

            Wow. How sweet of you. Your compliments overwhelm me. I believe we still live in a free country, do we not? Freedom of speech, freedom of religion. That means that I can believe whatever I want. So can you. No one can stop us. And that means that we can vote. It would discrimination (not to mention stupid) if they did, something that is positively NOT cool in this awesome country. Oh, and when is it that we “dish out guilt and shame and hellfire threats”? If Christians are doing that then they have NO RIGHT to the name of Jesus! Sorry, pal, obviously you haven’t had enough experience with true Christians.

          • pud

            Be a big girl now…they are not insults they are FACTS. No one said you can’t believe the most stupid crap in america…you can and you do! However that is a direct threat to reality and progress and civilization. It is that threat that I wage war against.

            Your entire cult is exclusively based upon THREATS! Believe nonsense or else! Tell me what the fate of non believers is….tell me what awaits those who don’t subscribe to your make believe nonsense. It was your storybook “jesus” who raised the fate of hell …don’t you read your Bronze Age book?

          • Kyra Lynne

            Ha! I should be telling you to grow up…but I know it won’t work, so I don’t bother. The most stupid **** in America, eh? Why is it any worse then all the other religions? Why are you so set against Christians?

          • pud

            I rail against ALL delusional superstitious religions not just yours. They are ALL equally harmful to society and civilization. They are ALL backward and infantile, yours is nothing special

          • Kyra Lynne

            Oh really? How come I haven’t seen it yet…*has been stalking your profile*….you seem to just nail all the Christian sites. What’s with that, man?

          • pud

            Since I live in america, you’re in my backyard so I give you preference for now

          • Kyra Lynne

            Thank you…not. There are still many religions here in America. Muslim, for example…or at least, as of late -_-

          • pud

            The demented jews keep to themselves, the muslims aren’t big enough yet…you cult is the clear and present danger so I have to stay focused on you

          • Kyra Lynne

            If I were you I’d focus on the muslims….that’s just me.
            *clears throat* yeah my grandparents are Jews -_- They don’t keep to themselves….

          • pud

            The jew cult doesn’t try to convert and legislate what everyone else should do…they just breed like rabbits and indoctrinate their own. The muslims are the greatest threat globally for sure but the christian cult is the one nearest to my interests so I have to defeat your cult first

          • Kyra Lynne

            Uh. I’d beg to differ on that one, but I don’t feel like debating on Jews, them being so close to home :/
            *laughs* Um I don’t think you’ll be defeating our “cult” very soon. To defeat it, you’d have to defeat Jesus and that’s never gonna happen. But, you go ahead and try, if it makes you happy 🙂 I won’t try to snuff out all atheists tho. Or any, or that matter.

          • Kyra Lynne

            They didn’t indoctrinate me. Lol I ain’t a jew.

          • Kyra Lynne

            Pud, how can you say what you do about Billy Graham? You can’t even have some respect for the deceased?

          • pud

            Because as I said he was a snake oil salesman selling hellfire to the gullible and making his wretched living lying to children. He was a disgusting human being, a fraud and charlatan peddling guilt and shame all the while offering his fake cures for a small donation.

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1hl2jdfIiA

          • Kyra Lynne

            But you can’t have some respect for a dead man? A man who cared about other people, whether they were Christians or not? I can’t believe you, Pud. I thought you had a little more scruples then that.

          • pud

            He was a disgusting fraud…an raging anti semite bigot liar con man

          • Kyra Lynne

            Whatever. You are the most unfeeling person I’ve ever met.

          • pud

            You’re the most gullible person I’ve ever known. The man was a disgusting human being…He became wealthy lying to stupid gullible people, preaching anti semitism and LYING to children as his guilt and shame fire and brimstone tent revivals sold gallons of snake oil to the dumb masses…..but I forgot…you couldn’t care less about what is true just woo woo feelings

          • Kyra Lynne

            I highly doubt that, Pud. In your opinion, I’m sure you’ve met people much more gullible then me.
            He CARED about OTHER PEOPLE! He HELPED PEOPLE! Yes, he told people about Jesus and yes, he was a Christian. But he never forced his beliefs anyone. And he didn’t ever discriminate between Christians and non-Christians when he was serving and being kind. If he wasn’t a Christian, would you say he was a decent man? Answer me that.

          • pud

            He made his living…his entire career….lying to people, instilling guilt and shame and fear of an invisible deity that would send them to hell for eternity unless they joined his perverted cult.

            If he wasn’t a deluded religious lunatic he wouldn’t have spent his whole life lying to the dumb hicks and terrorizing them with his bullshit eternal christian death threats from invisible jesus.

            If he wasn’t a christian I have no idea what kind of person he would be but I suspect, given the kind of person one must be to make a living lying to people, he was mentally ill and I would have been disgusted with him if he was a plumber

          • Kyra Lynne

            Okay. I’m done. Sorry, I just can’t stand your absolute disrespect for someone who just died. I’ll probably end up talking to you again sometime, since we seem to be forming a trend. So, I give my adieus for now.
            I’ll be praying for you, Mr. Pud.

          • pud

            Would you shed tears at the death of Hitler?

          • Kyra Lynne

            Billy Graham was not Hitler, nor did he share any resemblance to him. But idk I may fee slightly sad at the place he was going. Though I’m not very sure.

          • pud

            “the place he was going” LOL….

          • pud

            Nothing fails like prayer. Don’t waste too much of your time on my behalf

          • Kyra Lynne

            Dude, you’re top on my list.

          • pud

            What does “thy will be done” mean to you? Anything?

          • Kyra Lynne

            What do you mean?

          • pud

            It’s in the lords prayer isn’t it? What does it mean to you..what’s it saying?

          • Kyra Lynne

            Yes, it’s in the Lord’s prayer. Praying it would mean that you are putting the situation in His hands that you believe that His plan is best. But the Bible also says “ask and it shall be granted.” So our prayers do make a difference.

          • pud

            No…It is a stupid phrase. According you your cult “god” is sovereign…he does whatever the hell he wants when he wants how he wants. Well suppose he wants me to be a heretic? Now you come along “praying” that his will not be done. What was the use of your begging seeing as “He” does what he wants when he wants how he wants and has never consulted you before doing anything? Do you think there’s ever a time when his will isn’t done? If not then everything is fixed and predestined by the celestial dictator and your groveling is pointless and futile. So why do it?

          • Kyra Lynne

            Yeah, this is actually a touchy subject, even between Christians.

            Most people say that everything that happens in the world is His will. This is absolutely not true. Is it His will that children in Uganda die every day of starvation? No! Is it His will that substance abusers die of over doses daily, simply because no one tried to help them? Of course not!

            This is the thing: God has not made us robots. He made us all with the ability to make our own choices. He gives you and me the choice to say “Yes, Jesus” or “No, Jesus.” He gives us the choice to believe on Him or not.

            People mess up. They make bad choices. They lie, steal, manipulate, and cause pain. Why is this? Because sin entered the world.

            God gave the first people on earth a choice; He told them not to eat of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good And Evil. He told them what would happen if they did. But when they were tempted by Satan, they believed his lie and disobeyed God’s command. That’s how it happened. Man sinned and he’s been sinning ever since.

            So now we are where we are. In a world of darkness and sin. But God hears us when we cry out to Him. Our prayers matter because God can whisper to people’s very hearts and let them know how much He loves them. He can change your heart, He’s just waiting on YOU to accept Him. He doesn’t want to force you to love Him. That would defeat the purpose. He’s waiting for you, and
            He’ll continue waiting until you hear His voice drawing you to Him. The Bible says that He is not willing that any should parish. So why do they? Because of the certain person’s choice to reject Him.

            Wow. That was long…

          • pud

            You are so drunk on the ridiculous christian cult kool-aid.

            What is the only result for not “believing” in this invisible “god”? What is the direct consequence for not “loving” this invisible “god”?

            I’ll tell you to save you from typing….eternal torture. Eternal torture for the one unforgivable “sin” of not believing nonsense

            That dear girl is exactly how North Korea is organized. You “love” dear leader or else. There is no choice in the matter

            You don’t know a single thing you babbled as true…you are just regurgitating the woo woo party line

            Tell me what’s wrong with this from Epicurus …..

            “Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
            Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
            Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
            Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?”

          • Kyra Lynne

            Hell was not even created until Satan, who was actually an angel of the Lord’s, rebelled against Him and got some other angels to come along with him and take revenge on God by harming His people. It’s not Jesus’ fault that this happens.

            That didn’t really make any sense. Did you even read all of what I just posted, or are you just going on with the same things you always say no matter what?

          • pud

            Do you ever stop and read what you write? Do you realize how absurdly infantile this imaginary lord of the rings fantasy that you have bought into sounds?

            “Satan” was made up by the early church…It’s just one more make believe character….just one more fantasmagoric ridiculous story for the absolutely most gullible and simple minded people on the planet

            I’m not going to continue this with you….it is childish rubbish fit only for some sadistic bedtime story by a lunatic

          • Kyra Lynne

            I read over what I wrote….and since everyone here will agree with me (besides you of course) I don’t think anyone will say I’m wrong.
            But let me ask you one more question, Pud. What is your definition of “something intelligent”? Because I have this weird feeling that anything anyone says that you don’t agree with will be labeled “unintelligent”. Is this true?

          • Kyra Lynne

            And you just told me what happens to you in the end if you don’t ask forgiveness for your sins. Have you ever told a lie? Have you ever stolen something? Have you ever taken God’s name in vain? Rejecting God isn’t the only sin for which you have to pay. You’re going to have to pay for every mean word you’ve said to anyone, every time you’ve ever coveted, every time you’ve ever hurt someone, every time you’ve ever let your temper get ahold of you. I’m not accusing anyone, but it’s a fact of life that people aren’t perfect. I’ve made bad choices. I’ve sinned terribly against my God who I still hypocritically call out to in times of trouble.
            So. Do you want to take that chance? Do you want to go thru life screaming that God doesn’t exist and then get up there and realize just the opposite? I don’t know about you, but I ain’t taking that chance. I’m going all in.

          • pud

            If adam and eve had no knowledge then how could they know it was wrong to eat from the tree? duh

            This is juvenile gibberish…I’m not even going to respond to you unless and until you can write something intelligent and mature

          • Kyra Lynne

            I just said (*is getting impatient*) that God TOLD THEM what would happen. He said ” this day ye shall die”. He warned them. So yeah, it would have been His fault if He hadn’t, but He did.

          • pud

            You are hopelessly impossibly irrational and incapable of critical thinking

            If adam and eve (lol) had NO KNOWLEDGE what did the threat from your loving god about surely dying mean to them? NOTHING

            If your loving “god” gave a shit he wouldn’t put temptation in front of innocent ignorant children and then condemn them for doing something they had no idea about

            If your loving “god” gave a shit he would have prevented your make believe satan from entering the garden and corrupting his children…some shitty parent!

            According to your demented infantile absurd story….your “god” MADE adam and eve….That means that EVERYTHING in their heads was put there by your psychotic “god”…EVERYTHING!

            They had no peers, no parents, no school, no books no experience…They did exactly what they were programmed by your lunatic deity to do! NOTHING could be their fault for they KNEW NOTHING that wasn’t put into their brains by your make believe creator myth

            If your ALL KNOWING ‘god” was truly ALL KNOWING then he MUST have known exactly how this would play out….HE DID IT ALL! and yet he cursed all of humanity for his own gross ineptitude

            I’m done…this is the most infantile crap you’ve ever written

          • Kyra Lynne

            Yes, something you have right for once. God made them therefore everything in them He put there. He put their ability to make their own choices, so that He could know if they chose to follow Him that they were truly sincere and not just going thru life like zombies. Does that makes ANY sense?!

          • pud

            It only makes sense to 3 year old children and idiots. good night. I’m not wasting my time on this stupid idiotic crap that only lunatics could “believe”

          • Kyra Lynne

            Ha! You leave and you don’t even bother to answer my question in my other comment. What does that say about you? lol

          • pud

            Ask me an intelligent question or engage me in intelligent discussion and we can continue. Carry on with the absurd drivel of talking snakes and trees of knowledge and the most I’ll do is look for a suitable nursery school or insane asylum for you.

          • Kyra Lynne

            Okay, I’ll remember that. But you were the one who started me off on it, by asking about God’s will. I just answered your question.
            *laughs* insane asylum? Get real, man.

          • pud

            If someone “believed” that the “Flintstones” is a documentary or that “Lord of the Rings” is actual history or that a magical garden existed with a “tree of knowledge” and a “talking serpent”….they ya, an insane asylum is a suitable home

          • Kyra Lynne

            Okay, whatever you have to tell yourself to make you feel secure.

          • pud

            LOL…It’s actually quite the contrary! You’re the one who has to play make believe and invent every manner of bizarre to soothe your troubles and ignorance. I’m perfectly happy with not knowing and totally content with actual reality

          • Kyra Lynne

            Somehow, I take from your insane obsession with crushing teenagers beliefs, that you aren’t as happy as you make yourself sound. Someone who is truly joyful only wants to spread that joy, not put it out, like a putting a bucket over a candle. I, for one, want to spread the joy.

          • pud

            Ah, clearly your “prayers” do nothing….ask the billions of suffering people who wasted their last breath “praying” to a deaf deity

          • Kyra Lynne

            Read what I just posted.

          • pud

            Humilty to the invisible being…too funny and sad. If his will is to be always fulfilled then anything and everything you beg for that is not of his will will be ignored and everything you by coincidence beg for that was his will anyway will seem like you’ve been granted…hello? Either way you wasting time begging changes nothing even under your crazy make believe fantasy

          • Kyra Lynne

            It does change something because God can influence the hearts of people. He speaks to them thru His Word and when they see that, lives, situations, and circumstances can change.

          • Kyra Lynne

            And it means everything to me. Without “thy will be done” there would be no humility in a prayer.

          • Kyra Lynne

            And why do you keep saying “lying to children”? Millions of full-grown, intelligent, thinking-for-themselves people are appreciative of his work and life…like, including the President. What’s with that?

          • pud

            Lunchtime…gotta go…se ya around! bye for now

          • Kyra Lynne

            Okay, sounds good. Nice of you to end on a kind note for once. So you are human? lol

          • Kyra Lynne

            So. After all our conversation and all our debate the last few weeks, you still decide I am a lunatic? Sad. I thought you had a brain. *is disappointed* Oh well.

          • pud

            Well ya, you are. Despite all my rational arguments you still choose to subscribe to your invisible lucky rabbit foot jesus cult…that makes you a lunatic…sorry but it is a fact

          • Kyra Lynne

            Fine. But you should know I have a higher regard for you. You have a bit of knowledge in you head and you are open-minded enough to have a conversation with this “lunatic.” Cheers, as you’d say lol.
            But. I DID consider your arguments! For real.

          • pud

            For the final time….It DOES NOT MATTER what “sounds” true…What matters is what can be SHOWN to BE TRUE! You have failed like all theists do. Your feelings and wishes are NOT evidence for anything. You pretend…I prefer to know.

            It’s far better to be told a hurtful truth than a comforting lie.

          • Kyra Lynne

            It matters if we KNOW! Just because you don’t, doesn’t mean someone else can’t. Sheesh.

          • Kyra Lynne

            At least now I know where you’re coming from. At least now I know that you do have a brain and a train of thought, not just spewing words. Thank you for clarifying your “beliefs” (or, according to you, your non-beliefs).
            But, unfortunately for you, I’m not feeling convinced. It’s hard for you to understand how real God really is to ME, no matter what science says.

          • Kyra Lynne

            Also, it sounds as if you are saying that God does exist, just that He isn’t as awesome as I make Him out to be. Is that so? Are you saying that He’s here, He just doesn’t have anymore “power” then you and me?

          • pud

            I’m saying the following…per our logical train of thought…

            1. If you claim that “god” is a concept it CANNOT “exist” at all

            2. If you claim that “god” is an object then it MUST conform to the laws of nature and behave as ALL objects do and must. So yes, in a sense, it might be possible that this “god” is some super alien being. A super alien being that is made of the same stuff as you are, is not supernatural, does not control nature but perhaps is advanced enough that humans would perceive it as having “god” like qualities. If you went back in time to a tribe of Neanderthals they would think you a “god” too. With your smart phone and technology you could fly and answer any question, predict the weather and eclipses etc thus for all intent and purpose appear just as a “god” to them.

            I am not discounting the possibility (there is no evidence however) that some super race of intelligent beings had a hand in human affairs but that does NOT satisfy your definition of a supernatural creator of the universe thing only that some more advanced form of life might exist subject to the exact same restrictions of nature that you and I are

          • Kyra Lynne

            What about the millions of people whose lives have been changed by this God that you say is nonexistent?

          • pud

            I don’t say that it’s non existent I just proved to you that it is!

            Millions of people make billions of “claims” all the time! That proves nothing! You have to make the causal connection between some event and the object that caused it. You can’t just declare that Zeus did it or Allah did it or jesus did it…you have to SHOW the causal connection!

            Milions of people claim to have been abducted by aliens! They even take lie detector tests….is it true just because they claim it or do they have to demonstrate the link between their claim and actual aliens doing the abduction?

            If someone claimed that their lucky rabbits foot was why they won the lottery would you just accept that? NO you wouldn’t…you would demand they SHOW the causal connection between winning and a rabbits foot!

            This is true for ALL claims

          • Kyra Lynne

            Answer me this, sir: have you ever SEEN a person with a horrible life (IE addiction, crime, divorce, etc.) come to know Jesus? Just answer if you have or not.

          • pud

            Personally no.

            1. There is no evidence for any supernatural “jesus” whatsoever. There is only a make believe story in an ancient book.

            2. People recover from all kinds of hardship by many many means. Again…YOU MUST demonstrate the causal connection between someone overcoming some hardship and the agent responsible! You don’t get to just insert some invisible magic man! You view things in a totally infantile manner. You see something or you feel something and you ascribe some agency to it without DEMONSTRATING the actual cause for it! People cure habitual loneliness by getting a pet dog! That causal connection can be shown! Where’s your invisible “jesus” in the childrens cancer wards or refugee camps where little children are dying of starvation and disease? You need to grow up!

          • Kyra Lynne

            That’s what I figured. So if you’ve never seen it personally, how can you sit here and tell me it’s impossible?

          • Kyra Lynne

            Oh and you never answered my other replies….

          • pud

            It’s not “augh” and “sigh”….You do this all the time. You make baseless assumptions …”miracles” happen yet you can offer no proof, no evidence, no causal link to some supernatural entity. How rational is that? It’s not rational. It allows any “claim” no matter how absurd or ridiculous to have the same merit as your baseless claim. Don’t you see this?

          • Kyra Lynne

            Dude. What did that have to do with anything? Do you have a problem with my comments? LOL
            And seriously, I’m trying to see, but you’re not the best at showing your evidence.

          • Jack Wellman

            Poor Pud. She is so lost. She goes back to that same tired and old argument that you cannot prove He exists, when she cannot prove He does not. Pray for this poor lost soul.

          • Kyra Lynne

            I will, Jack. It’s a good thing God has a lot of patience ’cause….
            But anyways. How are there so many atheists on this site? Why are they here? I guess so they can do all that Pud keeps doing -_- Oh well.
            Nice of you to reply! 🙂

          • pud

            Prove a china tea pot isn’t circling Mars…..

            You who make the claim bear the burden of proof stupid

  • pud

    1. The Text of the Constitution Does Not Say the United States Is a Christian Nation

    If a Christian nation had been the intent of the founders, they would have put that in the Constitution, front and center. Yet the text of the Constitution contains no references to God, Jesus Christ, or Christianity. That document does not state that our country is an officially Christian nation.

    Not only does the Constitution not give recognition or acknowledgment to Christianity, but it also includes Article VI, which bans “religious tests” for public office. Guaranteeing non-Christians the right to hold federal office seems antipodal to an officially Christian nation. The language found in Article VI sparked some controversy, and a minority faction that favored limiting public office to Christians (or at least to believers) protested. Luther Martin, a Maryland delegate, later reported that some felt it “would be at least decent to hold out some distinction between the professors of Christianity and downright infidelity or paganism.” But, as Martin noted, the article’s language was approved “by a great majority . . . without much debate.” The Christian nation argument just wasn’t persuasive.

    In addition, the First Amendment bars all laws “respecting an establishment of religion” and protects “the free exercise thereof.” Nothing here indicates that the latter provision applies only to Christian faiths.Finding no support for their ideas in the body of the Constitution, Christian-nation advocates are left to point to other documents, including the Declaration of Independence. This also fails. The Declaration’s reference to “the Creator” is plainly deistic. More obscure documents such as the Northwest Ordinance or personal writings by various framers are interesting historically but do not rise to the level of governance documents. When it comes to determining the manner of the U.S. government, only the Constitution matters. The Constitution does not declare that the United States is a Christian nation. This fact alone is fatal to the cause of Christian nation advocates.

    2. The Founders’ Political Beliefs Would Not Have Led Them to Support the Christian-Nation Idea

    Key founders such as James Madison and Thomas Jefferson opposed mixing church and state. They would never have supported an officially Christian nation.

    Jefferson and Madison came to this opposition in two ways. First, they were well-versed in history and understood how the officially Christian governments of Europe had crushed human freedom. Moreover, they knew about the constant religious wars among rival factions of Christianity. Second, they had witnessed religious oppression in the colonies firsthand.

    Remember, Madison was inspired to fight for church-state separation and religious liberty because he had witnessed the jailing of dissenting ministers in Virginia. Madison and other founders wrote frequently about the dangers of governments adopting religion; they often worked alongside clergy who made similar arguments. John Leland, a Massachusetts pastor and powerful advocate for church-state separation, said it best: “The notion of a Christian commonwealth should be exploded forever.”

    Jefferson’s Virginia Statue for Religious Liberty, which many scholars consider a precursor to the First Amendment, guaranteed religious freedom for everyone, Christian and non-Christian. Attempts to limit its protections to Christians failed, and Jefferson rejoiced.

    In his famous “Memorial and Remonstrance Against Religious Assessments” Madison observed, “Torrents of blood have been spilt in the old world, by vain attempts of the secular arm, to extinguish Religious discord, by proscribing all difference in Religious opinion.”

    In his Notes on Virginia Jefferson observed, “The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.”

    Alexander Hamilton, writing in “Federalist No. 69,” speaks bluntly to the religious duties of the U.S. president: There aren’t any. In this essay, Hamilton explains how the American president would differ from the English king, outlining several key differences between the two. He writes: “The one has no particle of spiritual jurisdiction; the other is the supreme head and governor of the national church!”

    3. The Key Founders Were Not Conservative Christians and Likely Would Not Have Supported an Officially Christian Nation

    To hear the religious Right tell it, men such as George Washington, John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, and James Madison were eighteenth-century versions of Jerry Falwell in powdered wigs and stockings. This is nonsense.

    The religious writings of many prominent founders sound odd to today’s ears because these works reflect Deism, a theological system of thought that has since fallen out of favor. Deists believed in God but didn’t necessarily see him as active in human affairs. The god of the Deists was a god of first cause: he set things in motion and then stepped back.

    Although nominally an Anglican, George Washington often spoke in deistic terms. His god was a “supreme architect” of the universe. Washington saw religion as necessary for good and moral behavior but didn’t necessarily accept all Christian dogma. He seemed to have a special gripe against Communion and would usually leave services before it was offered.

    Washington is the author of one of the great classics of religious liberty—the letter to Touro Synagogue (1790). In this letter, Washington assures America’s Jews that they would enjoy complete religious liberty—not mere toleration—in the new nation. He outlines a vision not of a Christian nation but of a multi-faith society where all are free to practice as they will:

    The Citizens of the United States of America have a right to applaud themselves for giving to Mankind examples of an enlarged and liberal policy: a policy worthy of imitation. . . . All possess alike liberty of conscience and immunities of citizenship. It is now no more that toleration is spoken of, as if it was by the indulgence of one class of people that another enjoyed the exercise of their inherent natural rights. For happily the Government of the United States, which gives to bigotry no sanction, to persecution no assistance, requires only that they who live under its protection, should demean themselves as good citizens.

    John Adams was a Unitarian. He rejected belief in the Trinity and the divinity of Jesus, core concepts of Christian dogma. In his personal writings, Adams made it clear that he considered the concept of the divinity of Jesus incomprehensible.

    In February of 1756, Adams wrote in his diary about a discussion he had had with a man named Major Greene. Greene was a devout Christian who sought to persuade Adams to adopt conservative Christian views. The two argued over the divinity of Jesus. When questioned on the matter, Greene fell back on an old standby: some matters of theology are too complex and mysterious for human understanding.

    Adams was not impressed. In his diary he writes, “Thus mystery is made a convenient cover for absurdity.”

    Jefferson’s skepticism of traditional Christianity is well known. Our third president did not believe in the Trinity, the virgin birth, the divinity of Jesus, the resurrection, original sin, and other core Christian doctrines. Jefferson once famously observed to Adams: “And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter.”

    Although not an orthodox Christian, Jefferson admired Jesus as a moral teacher. He even edited the New Testament, cutting away the stories of miracles and divinity and leaving behind a very human Jesus, whose teachings Jefferson found “sublime.”

    Perhaps the most enigmatic of the founders was Madison. To this day, scholars still debate his religious views. Some of his biographers believe that Madison, nominally Anglican, was really a Deist. Notoriously reluctant to talk publicly about his religious beliefs, Madison was perhaps the strictest church-state separa- tionist among the founders, opposing not only chaplains in Congress and the military but also government prayer proclamations. As president, he vetoed legislation granting federal land to a church as well as a plan to have a church in Washington care for the poor. In each case, he cited the First Amendment.

    4. Shortly After the Constitution Was Ratified, Conservative Ministers Attacked It Because It Lacked References to Christianity

    Ministers of the founding period knew that the Constitution didn’t declare the United States officially Christian—and it made them angry.

    In 1793, just five years after the Constitution was ratified, the Reverend John M. Mason of New York attacked that document in a sermon. Mason called the lack of references to God and Christianity “an omission which no pretext whatever can palliate.” He predicted that an angry God would “overturn from its foundations the fabric we have been rearing and crush us to atoms in the wreck.”

    Conservative pastors continued whining well into the nineteenth century. In 1811, the Reverend Samuel Austin thundered that the Constitution “is entirely disconnected from Christianity. [This] one capital defect [will lead] inevitably to its destruction.”

    In 1845, the Reverend D. X. Junkin wrote, “[The Constitution] is negatively atheistical, for no God is appealed to at all. In framing many of our public formularies, greater care seems to have been taken to adapt them to the prejudices of the INFIDEL FEW, than to the consciences of the Christian millions.”

    These eighteenth- and nineteenth-century pastors knew that the Constitution was secular and granted no preferences to Christianity. They considered that a defect.

    5. During the Post-Civil War Period, a Band of Politically Powerful Pastors Tried Repeatedly to Amend the U.S. Constitution to Add References to Jesus Christ and Christianity

    Nineteenth-century ministers knew that the Constitution was secular and that the nation was not officially Christian. They sought to remedy that through an amendment that would have rewritten the preamble to the Constitution.

    The drive was led by the National Reform Association (NRA), a kind of early religious Right organization that sought an officially Christian America. This NRA had ambitious goals. It sought laws curtailing commercial activity on Sunday, mandating Protestant worship in public schools and censorship of material deemed sexually explicit or blasphemous. (Thanks to the NRA, freethought societies of this period often had difficulties mailing periodicals to supporters. The U.S. Postal Service was under constant siege by the NRA.)

    The NRA was successful in many of its legislative endeavors, but it was never able to secure passage of the Christian nation amendment. The group’s proposed preamble read as follows:

    We, the people of the United States, humbly acknowledging Almighty God as the source of all authority and power in civil government, the Lord Jesus Christ as the Ruler among the nations, His revealed will as the supreme law of the land, in order to constitute a Christian government, and in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the inalienable rights and blessings of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness to ourselves, our posterity and all the people, do ordain and establish this Constitution of the United States of America.

    Congress did consider the amendment, but the House Judiciary Committee voted it down in 1874, declaring its awareness of the dangers of putting “anything into the Constitution or frame of government which might be construed to be a refer- ence to any religious creed or doctrine.” The proposal was reintroduced several times after that; in fact, versions of it were still appearing in Congress as late as 1965.

    While the NRA was never successful in getting the Christian nation amendment passed, the group had better luck with another policy objective: adding “In God We Trust” to coins. That practice was codified in the North during the Civil War.

    Obviously, there would have been no need to amend the Constitution to declare America officially Christian if the document already said as much. But it didn’t, which is why the NRA felt so strongly about its emendation.

    The Origins of the Christian-Nation Myth

    This last point provides the key to understanding the staying power of the Christian-nation myth. The myth’s origins go back not to the founding period but to a much different time in history—the post-Civil War era.

    During this period, the country came as close it ever would to being officially Christian. Many laws did reflect the tenets of that faith. For example, books, magazines, and even stage productions were banned if they were deemed insulting to the Christian faith. Protestant prayer and worship were common in many public schools. Laws curtailed Sunday commerce. Even the Supreme Court flirted with the Christian-nation concept in its infamous decision in the Holy Trinity case.

    The post-Civil War era was also a period of great social upheaval. The end of slavery in the South created dislocation and confusion, which left people grasping for answers in the chaos. Other social changes loomed. Late in the century, women began advocating for the right to vote. Not surprisingly, some people reacted to these changes by latching onto reactionary religious views.

    Despite the social unrest, in many ways this period of history is the religious Right’s ideal society. Think about it: public schools were pushing conservative forms of Protestantism. Religiously based censorship was common. All people were required to abide by a set of laws based on Christian principles, with the government playing the role of theological enforcer. Significantly, this was also a time of rigidly enforced gender roles and official policies of racial segregation.

    Many of these principles still inspire the religious Right’s agenda today. So when religious Right leaders or television preachers hearken back to our days as a Christian nation, remember that they are not talking about the founding period. What they long for is a return to an aberrant era in late-nineteenth- century America.

    The attempt to “19th-century-ize” modern America continues into the present. It’s not uncommon to hear the Christian-nation myth invoked in battles over religion in public schools, displays of religious signs and symbols on public property, and other church-state disputes. It has also been raised in questions dealing with tax aid to religious groups through school vouchers and “faith-based” initiatives. The argument is that it’s only to be expected that large amounts of taxpayer money will end up in the coffers of Christian groups because we are, after all, a Christian nation.

    The myth also feeds several psychological needs. It assures religious Right supporters who fear the pace of social change that things like same-sex marriage and the rise of secularists are aberrations that run counter to the “real” Christian nature of the country. It also invokes a “stolen legacy” myth—the idea that a grand and glorious history (in this case, a Christian one) exists but that it is being covered up or denied by usurpers who seek to suppress the nation’s history as part of a power grab.

    The Christian-nation myth also has political ramifications. Put simply, it is often used to motivate people to vote a certain way. Increasingly, the theocrats of the Far Right are assailing what they call the “secular Left,” an all-purpose bogeyman guilty of many crimes, including denying the Christian-nation idea.

    But the myth is by no means limited to the religious Right. Polls show great confusion in this area: in 2007, for example, 55 percent of respondents told the First Amendment Center they believed the Constitution establishes America as an officially Christian nation.

    Misinformation like this has especially bad consequences for secular humanists. The myth promotes the pernicious idea that non-Christians are second-class citizens in “Christian America.” It leads to the idea that the law mandates only a grudging tolerance of nonbelievers rather than what the Constitution really extends: full and equal rights to all Americans, regardless of what they do or do not believe.

    That the Christian-nation myth has many supporters among the religious Right doesn’t mean it has validity. It is, in fact, a form of “historical creationism” that mainstream scholars have repeatedly shown to be fallacious. But, like “scientific creationism,” the Christian-nation myth still has great power and wide acceptance. Humanists must confront—and debunk—the myth wherever it appears.

    • jamesparson

      Wow you covered just about everything. I didn’t know that about the NRA

  • kyuss

    Once again, pud destroys all arguments to the contrary.