Blood Moon Abomination: Why Christians Shouldn’t Buy What Hagee is Selling

Blood Moon Abomination: Why Christians Shouldn’t Buy What Hagee is Selling April 7, 2015

red Halloween moon or blood moonMega-church pastor and New York Times best selling author John Hagee has been busy selling something that I’d invite all Christians to avoid like it’s going out of style. Since October of 2013, Hagee has been warning the world about “something big” that’s about to happen to the secular nation state of Israel that will impact the whole world, and potentially bring about the end of the world by October 2015. Not only has he been preaching about it and discussing it on talk shows, he’s also now able to boast that his book, Four Blood Moons, has spent time on the New York Times best-seller list, which means that tons of Christians are soaking this stuff up.

For those who might not be aware, here’s the basic premise of what Hagee is arguing: the occurrence of four lunar eclipses called “blood moons” between 2014-2015, that also happen to coincide with Jewish holidays, is a sign from God that the end of the world is coming. Or, if not the end, at least that “something big” is about to happen in Israel that will alter the course of history. Real quickly, let’s break down where he’s getting this from:

There are a few biblical references to the moon turning red, which is the basic premise of all of this. Perhaps the chief reference cited comes from the highly symbolic, apocalyptic work of the Revelation of St. John where he writes:

 “When he opened the sixth seal, I looked, and behold, there was a great earthquake, and the sun became black as sackcloth, the full moon became like blood.” (Rev 6:12, which seems to be a reference to Joel 2:30-21. There is also a similar statement in Acts 2:20.)

As a futurist, Hagee’s contention is that the signs mentioned in these passages refer to the future (not to the audience they were written to), and that the “day of the Lord” and phrases like “end of the age” refer to the future end of the world. In addition, Hagee inserts another interesting theology to further add a twist to all of it: he argues that the secular nation state of Israel is a nation that is set apart and has a special purpose for God, aka, they are God’s “chosen” people. When you combine these two things together, you arrive at the whole Blood Moon nonsense: looking to the sky to tell the future of Israel (basically, fortune telling for a nation state). The cycle of 4 blood moons Hagee writes about will complete by October of this year (2015), which means that this “earth shaking event” he has predicted for Israel must take place before that time. (Well, one would think.)

While Hagee’s theory is getting him a lot of attention in the media, and book sales have likely padded his wallet nicely, this entire Blood Moon nonsense is something I argue all Christians should completely abstain from. Here’s why I think we should all avoid it:

For starters, the Blood Moon theory has serious theological shortcomings. Perhaps the most significant is the fact that (as futurist do) it views books such as Revelation as being something that was written to us way in the future, and completely dismisses the reality it was written to 7 first century churches. Whatever Revelation means, the chief meaning is what it meant to the first century churches it was addressed to– it’s not some Nostradamus look into the future but a letter of encouragement (the genre of literature is a letter of encouragement) to those specific 7 churches. In fact, the book of Revelation says that all of the events were to pass “near” “quickly” and “shortly”, which means that any predictions were immediate predictions. They are not for 2,000 years later– because that’s neither near, quick, nor short.

Second, it overlooks the fulfillment of these things that took place in AD70. The internal evidence for both Acts and Revelation is an early dating with completion prior to AD70, when Jerusalem (particularly the temple) was destroyed by Rome, and was an “end of the world” event for Israel. (I’ve written on this topic at length previously, here and here). In short, all of the “end times” stuff we see in scripture (yes, even the tribulation) was pointing to a coming event in the lives of those the letters were written to- the “end of the age,” which was the destruction of their temple. (We see Jesus state this plainly in the Olivet Discourse found in Matthew 24.)

Third, as I alluded to above, when Jesus talked about the “signs of the times” in Matthew 24, it was a direct reference to the coming destruction of the temple. At the beginning of the Olivet Discourse he makes the claim that the temple will be destroyed and “not one stone will be left unturned.” His disciples then ask, “what will be the signs this is about to take place?” So, all those wars and rumors of wars and earthquakes in diverse places that will be signs of the end? Jesus directly states they are signs of the coming destruction of the temple– they are not signs for us.

Additionally, Hagee’s theology is also based upon the foundational argument that the secular nation state of Israel today is the same thing as biblical Israel, something that is dangerously false (more on Israel, here). In short, the NT teaches that God’s people are not those who are the genetic descendants of Abraham, because there is no longer a distinction between Jew or Greek. Instead, Paul taught that those who are in Christ, are Abraham’s seed– (anyone who wants in, can be in- but it has NOTHING to do with your race). Hagee’s entire philosophy is predicated on this being wrong, and that God has set apart one race of people for a special purpose- the modern nation state of Israel.

Finally, and here’s the biggest reason why Christians might want to abstain from all of the Blood Moon nonsense: it’s the sin of divination.

What is divination? It is simply trying to predict the future through supernatural means. Astrology goes hand in hand: trying to tell the future based on the behavior of celestial bodies.

What does the Bible say about it? Well, let’s just say- God doesn’t seem to be a fan. In the Old Testament is is listed as an abomination (Deut 18) and it is mentioned repeatedly throughout the OT- warning people not to listen to it, and not to participate in it. Further, in the NT (Acts 16), the disciples encounter a girl who was said to have the “spirit” of divination in her, and that her ability to tell the future was from an evil spirit. In short: both Old and New Testaments seem to view what John Hagee is doing as very, very evil.

So, here’s the reader’s digest of the Blood Moon nonsense: Hagee’s theory is based on absolutely bad theology, and the entire practice of trying to tell the future by looking to celestial  bodies is forbidden. That means the best case scenario for Hagee is that he’s a false prophet, and the worst is that he’s possessed by an evil spirit. The rest of us? My advice is to not pay it any attention, and certainly don’t spend any money on the book.

Oh- and here’s Hagee getting debunked on his own TV show:

While I obviously don’t believe in fortune telling, here’s my prediction: nothing will happen, but Hagee will pull a Harold Camping and will try to explain away the fact that he prophesied wrongly.

I say we dump all of this end times nonsense, and just get busy loving the world like Jesus.

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  • Herm

    On so many, many levels John Hagee is trying to put his own new curtain across the Holy of Holies and earn himself authority as the new glorified high priest. We already have a High Priest forever, in the order of Melchizedek.

    Hagee may be the most dangerous zealot on Earth today because he is fanning the fire of war in the entire “Holy Land” from the USA. He is, also, helping to fund and support the Jewish occupation of the Palestinians.

    Hagee openly wants to go back to the day when God had a chosen people on Earth rather than accept, since Jesus’ last breath on the cross, God has little children in Heaven and on Earth. Children don’t need to fear when securely protected by the Family of God. Revelations makes it pretty clear to those who have the temple that was rebuilt in three days residing in their hearts and minds. John Hagee is not one of those as is known by his fruits.

    Thank you Ben for bringing this to the attention of your readers! Love you!

  • Elizabeth Jones

    Thanks SO much for being a voice of reason towards this tempest-in-a-teapot thing that Hagee is so desperately trying to push. Two friends of mine have swallowed this line hook, line and sinker.

    I appreciate your closing line: “I say we dump all of this end times nonsense, and just get busy loving the world like Jesus.” What a wonderful task! I suspect God would totally approve. If more people concentrated on just loving the world like Jesus, there would be a whole lot less conflict and a whole lot more love, joy, encouragement, and–dare I suggest, the possibility of world peace.

    Amen, brother! God’s blessings at Eastertide. @chaplaineliza

  • How to Get Rich

    1. Write a book with a title involving Judaism, secrets, and chronology. For instance, “The Time of His Coming: Secrets of the Ancient Jewish Calendar Predict the Second Coming.”

    2. Make up a bunch of stuff.

    3. Get rich.

    4. When your prediction fails to materialize, discover another hidden twist that means your prediction was just a milestone on the way to the REAL Second Coming.

    5. Write a book on that.

    6. Repeat steps 3-5.

    If there’s one thing dispensationalism has done for America, it’s provided a great way to make money. I mean, seriously, blood moons? Does anything NOT sound credible to these people?

  • I LOVED the way Hagee was totally stumped in that video and did not know why a lunar eclipse would not be visible in two different parts of the world. It was as if this basic fact never occurred to him. The host seemed to be trying to throw him a life-line when he asked if it had to do with the close relationship between the US and Israel.

  • Mark Edward

    Excellent post. Shared on Facebook.

    I wouldn’t make as big of a point about the Revelation, since (though I agree with you that it must be read in the context of John and his original readers) it is simply too contentious in relation to the stronger points you’ve made about the blood moons.

    (Reading the Revelation as written pre-70 AD is also a minority position, similar to the Blood Moons concept. There is substantial evidence within Revelation that suggests a post-70 authorship, especially regarding John’s subversion of Roman propaganda imagery.)

  • Great article Ben! That video you posted was a dandy! I completely agree with the Astronomer there. It is great to know that an actual physical scientist has concluded what I have always thought.

    These Jewish Holidays, like Passover and Sukkot happen when the moon is full. In order to have a blood moon, when the moon is red, there has to be a full moon, because the full moon is the only time in the sky when the moon is opposite of the sun, thus causing a lunar eclipse.

    A blood moon occurs when Earth covers the moon completely. The red we see is actually the suns light bounced off of our atmosphere and reflected by the moon. The reason why the moon has to be completely covered is because any direct light from the sun reflecting off the moon’s surface will trump the light reflected from Earth. Since our atmosphere is made up of over 3/4 Nitrogen, the light reflected will be red. It’s our nitrogen that causes the light to be red. The red light is always coming off the moon, but we don’t see it because of the direct sunlight on the moon. Get rid of that light and the blood red comes through.

    Now, on the Feast of Trumpets, aka Rosh Hashanah occurs during a new moon. A lunar eclipse is impossible. Having a blood moon on Rosh Hashanah, now that would be a feat to marvel, but it will never happen! If that does happen, something is terribly wrong. But not to worry. Rosh Hashanah is not one of those Jewish holidays on that list Hagee has…

  • Timothy Weston

    My old church did a series on the Blood Moon phenomenon a couple of months after I left there. They also link the eclipses with historical events. These people do not realize that the Jewish calendar is lunar and they cannot always see the eclipses.

    Are there any other sources that can dispel not only the blood moon prophecy but also the futurist view of prophetic scripture?

  • At last, some sanity and biblical discernment prevails! John Hagee will have a lot of explaining to do, but knowing how fickle people can be, they’ll probably suck it all up!

  • I think the fact that Israel will not be able to see any of these blood moons might give him a way out, if someone brings it up to him.

  • Don’t be surprised if he uses that excuse to keep his flock and keep selling books when this turns out to be a whimper instead of the the bomb all the rapture folks are hoping for…

  • otrotierra

    Thank you Benjamin! It is time for U.S. evangelicals to dispense with their “end times” mythology and to start following Jesus instead! How terribly unfashionable it is to follow Jesus!

  • Timothy Hawk

    Check out the book, “The Days of Vengeance” by David Chilton.

  • Timothy Hawk

    Great post, Benjamin. One consideration evangelicals need to ponder is how recent the futurist interpretation of Revelation is in light of the history of the church. One author I read (maybe H. B. Sweet) stated that Revelation is John’s Oliver Discourse as his Gospel doesn’t contain one. Blessings to you!

  • That is what I heard too. When on the Mount of Olives, Jesus said that there would be wars and rumors of wars, kingdom against kingdom and nation and nation. There will be famines, pestilences, earthquakes… kind of sounds like the four horsemen, don’t it? If Revelation was written in the 60’s as quite a few scholars are contending (because the Temple is mentioned in Revelation — which makes post 70ad a less likely choice of composition), and the Gospel of John was written in the 90’s, it would make sense that John would leave out the Olivet Discourse in his gospel, which had previously been covered. That is, of course, assuming that this was the same author.

  • Then how is a person to read Revelation? It certainly has relevance to us, though not in the way the dispensationalists say. I have been struck by how rooted in place Jesus’ letters to the seven churches are.

    Thank you for this and for pointing out how predicting the future is the sin of divination. It affirms my instincts about some things a group of acquaintances say. just to be clear, are we not supposed to predict the future at all? Is that not a gift of the Holy Spirit in any way shape or form?

  • Good question! I know this sounds weird, but I read Revelation as if it were a colorful history book. It is weird, because for 1) it most certainly isn’t written like a history book and 2) the events described in Revelation didn’t literally happen. How I can get anything out of that book is that I keep in mind that often times, time goes in a cycle. What happens once could happen again, though circumstances and context have changed. Also, I like the Philosophical/Spiritual approach, which is a unique way of explaining the conficts that happen within each of us when we repent and change our ways… Maybe not as cataclysmic, but if one were to say break an addiction, the recovery process can be quite painful.

  • Timothy Hawk

    Yes, the theory is based on a couple of assumptions. You are correct.

  • Timothy Hawk

    Katie,
    Revelation is read in the same way as the rest of the Bible. All the books of the Bible were written to a specific group of people at a specific time in history. The New Testament books were written to specific churches to answer questions they had about the gospel and to correct doctrinal issues. We read them in that historical context, discover the timeless truths, and apply them to our life and modern situation. As Benjamin pointed out, the greatest one is to love God and love others. Blessings to you!

  • Michael Scarboro

    But, but it makes money. :)

  • What you said there Herm makes complete sense to me….
    Didn’t Christ say on the cross that “It is finished?”

    Besides, I read in Hebrews somewhere that “In speaking of “a new covenant,” he has made the first one obsolete. And what is obsolete and growing old will soon disappearHebrews 8.13, NRSV

    What is obsolete and growing old will soon disappear. In other words, the old covenant was not yet done, even though Christ had already died, but was fixing to be. That can only mean the Temple and the priesthood, would it not? I mean, after all, that is what the whole letter of Hebrews is harping about, is it not?

    John Hagee would much rather see a new temple being built there, no matter the cost in human terms alone.

  • That is what the 2012 bunkers said… LOL

  • Artistree

    That’s a good point Jack. St.John does not cover these events in his Gospel because he devotes a whole chapter to the predictions in Revelation 6. If you read the details of Revelation 6, you will discover that they correspond exactly to Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21, concerning the destruction of the Temple, but in more detail, and in the same apocalyptic symbolic language. Revelation 6 had its fulfillment in 70AD where the unfaithful earthy city of Jerusalem is destroyed ( Revelation 17-19) and is replaced by the faithful heavenly Jerusalem, the Church in (Revelation 21).

  • Michael Popkins

    The thing is Revelation is divided. Chapters 1-4 are the past into present up to the point of the rapture. Chapters 5 until the end of the book all take place after the rapture. Anyone that’s a true Christian will already be gone from the earth and in Heaven so the moon turning to blood shouldn’t be a problem.

  • Timothy Hawk

    Pretty bad staging that an event with such significance for Israel (according to Hagee) can’t even be seen by them!

  • Artistree

    You’re mistaken Michael. Where does St. John mention a “Rapture” between chapter 4 & 5?, and then to go on to chapter 5 as if it was 2,000 years + into the future. Not a word is mentioned about a so called “rapture”. Jesus said that the events of Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21, concerning the fall of the Temple and Jerusalem would take place within that generation. The City of Jerusalem was destroyed in 70 AD, just as Jesus said, within the generation to whom Jesus declared it. Revelation 6 parallels Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21, to the letter but in more detail. Jesus said these events would take place within the generation of those who heard Him. Was He wrong ?

  • Hmmm. I actually have something to involve myself in and get lost in that’s a much better apocalyptic scenario involving the moon… It’s called “The Legend of Zelda: Majora’s Mask.” In that, the moon that’s going to end the world is grinning an evil grimace at you the entire time and you can be a hero and stop it! All while helping lost souls, too.

    I’m sorry, just… moons… apocalypse… got my geekiness up.

  • Kerry Thomas

    My 85year old mother and were speaking about this..and agreed, “if” it would happen it’ll happen long after we are gone…our kids are gone, our grandkids are gone…
    She said “they’ve been saying Jesus will be here soon” since she can remember…And then she said, ” I’ve live through The Great Depression, Hitler and WW2, the so called Communist scare in the 50s and 60s, changes in my life that people under 40 yrs of age wouldn’t or couldn’t understand…..and Jesus didn’t come then and he isn’t coming any time soon….” And later she said, ” some people don’t know how good we have it now.”
    We both agreed that somehow Hagee and his bunch in San Antonio think that because it’s him or we are Americans or whatever, Jesus is coming now for us.
    That’s just ego/vanity talking….

  • Jeff Preuss

    The most important thing about the Blood Moon prophecies to me as a Christian? Knowing when the moon happens so I can go out with my telephoto lens and try to get a good picture.

    I’ve held very little Hagee says in much regard for my entire life – why start now?

  • Artistree

    I believe there is substantially more evidence within the text to see Revelation’s dating prior to 70 AD. But, you are right, the pre-70 AD is the minority report, but so is the fact that the Apostle John wrote Revelation is also a minority position. Being in the majority does not follow that it is definitely correct.
    The majority point of a later date by some evidence, that of a claim by Irenaeus which appears to claim a later date, a passage which is difficult to translate, is a fair argument. But Irenaeus also claimed that Jesus died when he was 50 years of age.

  • Michael Richter

    Definition of divination is not precise enough, because it doesn’t exclude the prophecies referenced.

    The other thing is that the Bible itself contains doubly-fulfilled prophecy, like the one about the virgin bearing a child. Not to mention prophecy that wasn’t fulfilled for centuries, like the one about the son of Adam bruising the head of the Serpent.

  • Melanie Collins Pennock

    Reminds me of the “prophecies” regarding Y2K from which many made a large amount of money. Telling people to Love their God and love each other is not enough? Pshaw….

  • I recommend End Times Madness by Gary DeMar, along with his youtube videos which are insightful. He and I disagree on a host of theology, but he is at the top of the class when it comes to demonstrating how unbiblical the modern end times movement is.

  • I highly recommend Greg Boyd’s sermon series called Rescuing Revelation which can be downloaded from the Woodland Hills website. It’s a really excellent series.

  • Unfortunately there’s no rapture in Revelation. This is an argument by new dispensationalist scholars that say the lack of the word “church” in the latter part of his letter necessitates the idea that the church has been “taken away” but some supernatural means, so they invent the rapture to make it fit. It’s called the “word thing fallacy” where the absence of a word doesn’t mean the absence of a thing. Even folks who believe this will say that the rapture is not explicit in Revelation, but inferred.

  • The Coming of the Son of Man by Andrew Perriman.

  • Martin LaBar

    Answers in Genesis says that Hagee, and Biltz, are most likely wrong, because so-called blood moons are not as uncommon as these authors say they are:
    https://answersingenesis.org/astronomy/moon/will-lunar-eclipses-cause-four-blood-moons-in-2014-and-2015/

  • Herm

    Jack, I began to share with you a synopsis of my years of temple study. It got too long and only would serve to confuse. Instead I will just make a statement following a couple scriptures.

    “Then Jesus cried again with a loud voice and breathed his last. At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two, from top to bottom. The earth shook, and the rocks were split. The tombs also were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised. After his resurrection they came out of the tombs and entered the holy city and appeared to many.” Matthew 27:50-53 (NRSV)

    “When Jesus heard him, he was amazed and said to those who followed him, “Truly I tell you, in no one in Israel have I found such faith. I tell you, many will come from east and west and will eat with Abraham and Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven, while the heirs of the kingdom will be thrown into the outer darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” “Matthew 8:10-12 (NRSV)

    The “heirs of the kingdom” in the Matthew 8:10-12 is the chosen people to be responsible to the Covenant kept in the Holy of Holies. When the curtain was torn the Covenant was opened to the world (“many will come from east and west”) who would come as little children to inherit eternal life (Luke 10:25-37). Jesus came back to the foundation of God (Jerusalem) as one with the Holy Spirit (John 16:12-15) in the hearts and minds of the children of God. None of what John Hagee presents is in the Spirit.

    Sorry, I know this is too short to make sense but maybe you can study what I say. Yes, Jesus’ mission, that He accepted to be given Him by the Father, was fulfilled on the cross and the Jewish people were no longer chosen because there was no Covenant for them to carry and protect. The covenant of God with Man is with all who accept the Gospel with all the laws written in their hearts and minds by the Advocate, Spirit of Truth, Counselor, Holy Spirit.

    John Hagee is lost in his own ignorance not much less than was the high priest Caiaphas. John Hagee does not know God in his heart and mind.

    John Hagee has already cost a few lives by his overt support for the Jewish people who believe they can restore all the lands God gave their ancestors. The biggest problem is that God gave those lands to Abraham and the Samaritans (many of the Palestinians) are as much descendants of Abraham as the Jews so their military occupation of Palestinian lands is without merit, more like sibling rivalry to the death.

    John Hagee claims Jesus as His Lord and yet will crucify others rather than pick up the cross for others.

    Thank you for your sound observations and supportive comments. It is difficult compassionately empathizing with all others (like the Israelis, the Palestinians and John Hagee with his disciples) and having to feel great pain for how many suffer and die not knowing the Prince of Peace in their hearts and minds.

    Love you!

  • Marc

    I stopped listening to prophecy preachers after the failure of Hal Lindsey’s prognostications in The Late Great Planet Earth. But people still listen to these people and buy their books. Look at the Y2K hysteria of 15 years ago. People bought the books and survival guides from that and then found when it came about that they were out of money. People just don’t learn. For instance there was the Great Disappointment of 1845 with William Miller. This is the same as that.

  • David Cohen

    When even Answers in Genesis is expressing skepticism, you know its a bad bill of goods

  • Thank you. I’ll look for that. I’ve been reading it like you’d read poetry, just letting the images work through me, but it can be a pretty terrifying read.

    What are your insights into Christ’s second coming?

  • The Bible doesn’t tell us much- just that he is returning one day (bringing the saints with him) in the same manner which he left- in full view for all to see.

  • Chris Mason

    HAGEE: “How do you explain the four blood moons ‘happing’ [sic] exactly on Passover and Sukkot in two sequential years? As happenstance?”

    I could be wrong about this, but I seem to recall reading somewhere that the Jewish calendar is based on the lunar cycle. If that’s the case, I don’t think it’s that surprising that something like that would happen every so often.

    Also, J.P. Holding did a pretty good video debunking all of this nonsense, and in it he raised one really good question: If these blood moons are supposed to have some connection to significant events in Jewish history and the history of Israel, why wasn’t there a tetrad during the Holocaust or the destruction of the Jewish Temple in 70 AD?

    To be honest with you, I think being possessed by an evil spirit is the better of the two scenarios that you listed. At least then he’s not espousing this crap intentionally.

  • Don Lowery

    Hagee and those who love him are the reason I wish the rapture were true for them. If they’re gone…won’t have to hear their BS anymore…while the rest of us can do the work Jesus wants us to do.

  • Don Lowery

    Ah…the rapture…the lie which keeps on screwing people who never learned to read/understand history and follow an American savior created out of the legends of their own minds.

  • Johnnie Simpson

    I personally don’t hold much stock in the teachings of preachers like Hagee that leave their wives for another woman.That’s all I need to just ignore them.

  • Don Lowery

    Right after I read your book…”The Good News of Revelation” by
    Larry Helyer and Ed Cyzewski was the next one I enjoyed. Then

    “The Rapture Exposed: The Message of Hope in the Book of

    Revelation” by Barbara Rossing was a way to see that wizard behind the curtain that fundamentalists so love to follow…rather than the Jesus of the Bible who brings hope.

  • Janice Brantner

    I don’t find Revelation terrifying at all because it is about all evil being destroyed, and that is a good thing.

    There is room for debate on the time and manner of Christ’s second coming, but there are many, many scriptures that describe the purpose of his return – to rule the earth in justice and righteousness and destroy all evil. Revelation agrees with the Old Testament in looking forward to a time of resurrection and healing and all the world living in peace.

  • Orie Rodriguez

    I attended services at Cornerstone Church for years, but stopped because the members refused to question anything Hagee said. My experience was that members did not think for themselves and disapproved of anyone that questioned the pastor. Some there think I’m going to hell. I’m not worried.

  • Janice Brantner

    Jesus told several parables about his return. In all of them the focus is not on knowing when it will be (in fact they state we can’t know) but on how his servants treat others while he is gone, that is treating all others with mercy and love.

  • Kevin Thomas
  • Kevin Thomas
  • When I was in the Army back in the late 1980’s, I was stationed at Ft. Sam Houston for medical training. A friend of mine invited me to go to Cornerstone Church. It was huge! I never saw a church quite so big before. I do remember Hagee. He was loud even back then, screaming about how “the gays” and people voting for Michael Dukakis were going to hell. I found his temperament to be kind of spooky. I was impressed with what I saw, but I never went back. Don’t get me wrong. I don’t mind preachers stepping on my toes. I just don’t think its appropriate to be foaming at the mouth when doing so.

  • Sarcasm_101

    Remember when these things used to be called “Lunar Eclipses” and they didn’t really mean anything except that the Earth had a shadow?

  • Elaine Jones

    There is a gazillion-to-one chance that God would speak a message to me and tell me to tell the world His plans. If that did happen, I’m quite sure the VERY LAST thought in my mind would be ‘Oh good, I can publish a book, make DVDs etc, make a load of money on the back of this’. Ignore this idiot. The wheel is may still be spinning but the hamster died long ago!

  • Widge Widge

    Hagee is a lunatic

  • Bunnysgrandma

    i didn’t know that John Hagee left his wife. I thought he had the same wife through out his entire life.

  • Guest

    While I agree that Hagee (and those like him who want to make Bible prophecy a road map for us today, I was recently re-reading the Christmas story (I know, it’s Easter and Pentecost time) and was struck by the story of the men who came from the East to worship the child. There is a divine signature in creation (a la Psalm 8 and others), so how do we see that story in Scripture?

  • Rick Cruse

    While I agree that Hagee (and those like him who want to make Bible prophecy a road map for us today,) is way off base, I was recently re-reading the Christmas story (I know, it’s Easter and Pentecost time) and was struck by the story of the men who came from the East to worship the child. There is a divine signature in creation (a la Psalm 8 and others), so how do we see that story in Scripture?

  • RonnyTX

    This reminds me of what I was led to believe and did used to believe,in the local church I grew up in. I was taught to read the Bible,only in light of how my church taught. And I was never taught to read the Bible,asking God to guide me and show me the truth of a matter. Instead,I was simply to completely believe and never question anything,that came from our pulpit. I was taught that all that came from there,was straight out of the Bible,straight from God and true beyond question. But in time,God came to show me that such thinking was false and idol worship of some mens words. And that such was taught sin. Interesting,to say the least,when you come to see how sin is taught,in the church.

  • Arbustin

    Yes, the Jewish calendar is lunar, and more importantly, Passover and Sukkot always begin on full moons. Lunar eclipses happen on full moons…

  • Aaron Wenninger

    Great point Rick.
    Also Luk 21:25 “And there will be signs in sun and moon and stars, and on the earth distress of nations in perplexity because of the roaring of the sea and the waves,
    Luk 21:26 people fainting with fear and with foreboding of what is coming on the world. For the powers of the heavens will be shaken.

  • Libby Nussbaum

    Thank you, Benjamin.

  • Thank you very much for posting those links. I like how he addresses how frightening this book can be. I grew up hearing dispensationalist doctrine, especially at Word of Life Bible Camp, so it’s pretty ingrained. Though by the time I was a teenager I took up my uncle’s interpretation as a pan millennialist in that it would all pan out in the end.

    Seems like some people who are into the blood moon stuff really hate our world. I have wondered about the parable of the mustard seed growing into the tree. I wonder if the Kingdom will come to a critical mass and come in.

    N.T. Wright’s After you Believe and Surprised by Hope have had a profound impact on me as far as living as a citizen of the Kingdom, here, now.

    Thank you all for taking my questions seriously and including me in your community. Ben’s stuff makes so much sense and I don’t feel so alone.

  • I’ve been reading The Rapture Exposed. It’s very accessible and helpful.

  • Where did you go to Word of Life Bible Camp?

  • Kevin Thomas

    Peace and grace to you my sister!!

  • Schroon Lake, New York. (Auto correct won’t let me put the right name. Adirondacks. North of Lake George.) Went there every summer. My dad was on the board for years.

  • How unlikely does your theory have to be before people who teach that humans co-existed with dinosaurs go, “Wow, that sounds pretty crazy?”

  • Probably not as a mandate to go looking for what other momentous events star positions might commemorate.

  • Great prophecies about the destruction of the temple.

  • Herm

    There is a divine familial relationship in God, as a little child, offered right now. Little children trust in their elders to read the signs more so than their equally little siblings or families outside of their sufficiently nurturing family. It still is fun to stimulate the imagination of a child to learn to eventually be considerate of all possibilities. I expect by just past the end of eternity I will grow into that eventuality as an authority. Love you!

  • Herm

    Forty years ago my wife and I attended the local Baptist church in south San Jose. We sat nearly through the entire exhaustive sermon, hailed with bold and loud “AMENs”, on the subject of the “Red Tide” coming to subjugate all Christians in the US of A. We found the “foaming at the mouth” abominable and never returned to any Baptist church ever again.

  • Wow, that’s where I was– at the Bible Institute in 1994, and that’s where I got all my old, doom-and-gloom theology.

  • Whoa. Yeah I went to camp there ever since I was a little girl from the fifties to the early seventies. I have a very early memory of the newsreel about Jim Elliot’s martyrdom and there’s a picture of my dad talking to Elizabeth Elliot. Then later went to college with her daughter. I used to spend our afternoon free times on the Island praying by the lake.

    Yeah, doom and gloom is right and embedded guilt for just being. I remember puking between church pews after a Jack Wyrtzen sermon about hell.

    There are ways I bless Word of Life and ways I see how it has deeply scarred me. I certainly learned how to read and how to think critically from those little Quiet Time diaries.
    Much of my early spirituality is woven with it. I saw Word of Life getting more and more conservative, moving from counselors from Moody to counselors from Bob Jones even in the early 70’s. But then Wheaton College came along and showed me how big and wide Christianity is.

    What drew you to the Institute? (I remember it being built…) And how did you come to ease out of that thinking?1994 is not that long go.

  • I went on two mission trips with them in high school, and then went to the BI when I graduated, mostly because that’s what good Christian kids do. They have activities (like the Super Bowl) each year that recruit kids for the BI. I dropped out after being labeled a rebel, and went to church maybe a few times for the next ten years. I didn’t really break free from everything until my first few years in seminary (2008-present) which continually helped me undue a lot of the stuff I had learned. I talk about my transformation in-depth in my book, Undiluted.

  • Very interesting. By the end of high school I was finding Word of Life’s theology too constricting, though I did get a lot of gifts from there. But there’s some stuff to undo still. Sigh.

    Well, I’ll definitely have to get your book as you probably address some of that stuff from inside a tradition that scarred/formed me.

    Thank you again for chatting and welcoming me to your community.

  • Oh yes. His first wife was Martha Downing. He was married to her for 15 years. They had two kids together. In 1975, he was caught in a scandal and later wrote a letter of apology to the church. It was the only way he could keep his job there at Cornerstone, because he was kind of new there. He divorced his wife and married his current wife, Diana Castro a year later (much to the dismay of the church at the time). I think his new wife and him had three children together….

  • That is an interesting point, because the Magi was following a star. I was rereading that passage in Matthew 2, then something struck me. How is it that only the Magi saw the star? The star was there, but no one seemed to notice it except those men from the east. There was something very special about that star…

    I did some searching. Apparently, on midnight between December 24th and 25th, right above Bethlehem, the three stars that make up the belt of Orion points to Sirius, the dog star. If one were to draw a straight line from the three stars (representing the “three” Magi) following the star (Sirius), one would find that that line points to the Southeast horizon, the point where the sun will rise in just a few hours.

    I don’t know if that has anything to do with it, but I found that an extremely fascinating fact. Thanks for bringing it up.

  • Hesychast

    Great post – it is a shame how tirelessly some turn Christianity into huckterism and self-promotion. Hagee’s ‘Blood Moon’ programs and book sales will stand as one of the signs that his ministry is in serious error.

  • debra elramey

    I wouldn’t exactly call Hagee’s blood moon theory a sin of divination, because, to him and others who hold to this belief, it’s prophecy. Although I’m not a Hagee follower by any means (or a follower of anyone but Christ), I do err on the side of caution when it comes attributing to Satan what might be God. (Matthew 12:22-30). As some here have commented, God does use signs in the sky (as the star leading the wise men to Bethlehem), so I wouldn’t call it a sin.

    I have friends who are totally into the blood moon scene, and have bought food supplies to stock on for the tribulation, and admittedly, I have pondered moving to the wilderness myself to hide during that season of trouble. But at the same time, I see your point about just being here to love the world during these tumultuous times.

    I’ve seen that many are excited about the end of the age because of Luke 21:28. They long for his appearing, as do I. And yet, I see that we are to occupy til he comes, and be fruitful in the here and now. I read your post last night, and pondered it long and hard. It’s actually helped me to see things in a different light, so I thank you for that. From this day forth, I’ve decided to take your advice and get busy loving. Makes more sense to me than getting caught up in all the ‘signs of the times’ hype.

  • Herm

    Debra, this is not a test and is no way meant to put you on the hot seat but I have a question regarding two thoughts you introduced together:

    “I have pondered moving to the wilderness myself to hide during that season of trouble. But at the same time, I see your point about just being here to love the world during these tumultuous times.”

    How is it that “these tumultuous times” are not considered “that season of trouble”? I mean this in all love sincerely because throughout the gospels Jesus talked about a certain peace and joy found in Him and shared with us even unto the cross. At the cross and anticipating the cross for three years before hand seems to me to be right up there with the most of tumultuous times and seasons of trouble.

    Love you! Thanks!

  • debra elramey

    Good point. There have always been times of trouble, throughout history. I’d guess that every generation has pointed to certain outer events that led them to believe it was the end of the age. The sufferings of the early church were such that I’d imagine they too must have thought so.

    And I’d guess that those in the Middle East who are being crucified and beheaded and exiled from their land are saying the same. I have to admit that, to me, it feels like the prophecies of old are being fulfilled more and more.

    Most of my friends are prepping for the day when all hell breaks loose. I even have a relative who recently purchased 12 acres in the NC mountains and is building an underground bunker to hide from the government. You’ve heard, I’m sure, all the talk about the one world government etc. – that’s what he’s hiding from. And what I’ve pondered hiding from. Is that crazy?

  • Herm

    Debra, you are a good and merciful neighbor. Thank you for sharing!

    I am 70 and have had plenty of survivalist friends throughout my life. I never liked being burdened by having to stay close to home to be ready to survive on my own. I have been graced with a life around the world because I found a Guide I could trust to lead me, a Father to provide no matter where I was and a Brother willing to pay the bills I could not afford. This was long before I would have considered myself a full time child of God as I do today.

    I truly wish I could help your friend to know the peace and joy when as a little child we can trust our Father to provide and don’t have any reason to hide from the government of the benevolent Lord our God. I didn’t do such a good job with my survivalist friends of old. Most of them died of old age but at least they learned, with lots of time spent in installation and maintenance, how to build a more perfect fort.

    Love you and thanks, again, for your gracious and considered response!

  • debra elramey

    A more perfect fort – love it! What a title that would be!
    ~ Psalm 91

    Thank you for your inspiring words of encouragement.

    May your light always shine this bright, and even brighter
    as the days grow darker.

    Love and peace to you, Herm!

  • JohnE_o

    I’ve got a dusty copy of ’88 reasons Why The Rapture Will Be in 1988′ I could send him.

    Think that will help?

  • Croquet_Player

    Um, because what he’s saying is totally bonkers and has no basis in reality? You know when objects in the sky are going to affect your life? When a meteorite hits the planet. (Little bitty one? No problem, carry on. Big one? You got trouble, son). I can’t believe people buy this hogwash. It’s pathetic.

  • gimpi1

    I watched the lunar eclipse this last weekend. As lunar-eclipses go, it was pretty standard. Incidentally, the moon does not turn red in an eclipse, it’s more of a orange tint. I suppose “breakfast-juice moon” doesn’t have the same panache as “blood moon.”

    In the past, we really didn’t understand eclipses, comets and such, so people looked for patterns to explain them. It’s one of the things we humans do best. We’re so good at finding patterns that we can find them where they don’t exist. (Remember the “Face on Mars?) People saw these rare, incomprehensible events as evidence of divine intervention. What other explanation could there be for the moon to darken or the sun to go out for a few minutes? Whatever Gods they worshipped must be sending them some sort of message. It’s an understandable belief, for someone in the ancient world.

    The thing is, looking for some sort of divine code in understood, predictable events such as eclipses is something we should have left behind us long ago. The mechanics of eclipses is well-understood now. We don’t need divine intervention to explain them – all we need is to understand the orbital paths of the sun, earth and moon and how shadows work. Trying to turn simple astronomical events into coded messages from God is weird on so many levels. It denies the hard-won knowledge of what these events actually are, it presumes a Divinity that can’t communicate clearly – but must use obscure codes that only a few “chosen” will understand, and it encourages both ignorance and credulity in believers.

    You don’t need to abandon a belief in God to let go of the notion that God is using natural, understood, predictable events to pass coded messages to a few self-selected “prophets” who are using them to make “profits.” You just need some basic knowledge of science and a dollop of sense. Those shouldn’t be in short supply among Christians. Sadly, Mr. Hagee’s book sales say that they may be in shorter supply than we would hope for.

  • Herm

    Did you get your copy at a significant discount from an estate sale for the missing persons relief fund?

  • Chris Mason

    I had a feeling. So, even if it never happened that way before, it was probably bound to happen sooner or later. Thank you. And another thing, even if you buy into the whole “blood moon signifies something significant” thing, I don’t really see any reason to believe that this one indicates the end of the world. It could just be another event to add to the list that could still grow for several generations more. I think the fact that we’ve already seen numerous tetrads in the past supports my argument.

  • Chris Mason

    It took me a while to stop listening to them. Considering that there were quite a few predictions near the 2012 phenomenon, I couldn’t shake the feeling that they may have been on to something. When all of that passed and nothing happened, I was finally able to just shut them out and ignore them. Unfortunately, it caused me a lot of anxiety in the meantime (and it had some lasting effects).

  • gimpi1

    And the 2000 “millennium bug” folks, and the 1995 backers, and the 1990 folks and the 1984 believers, and so on and so on.

    I’m now old enough to remember at least six “end days” scenarios.

  • gimpi1

    I agree, Phi. Answers in Genesis is a high nutty-bar to clear. If they can see through this, I have to wonder why Mr. Hagee has such good book sales…

  • gimpi1

    I’m perhaps less charitable than you. I think he’s possessed by an evil spirit, all right, and I’ll give you it’s name. It’s his bank-account. Sadly, there’s gold in them-thar fake prophecies. If he doesn’t keep coming up with this stuff, the gravy-train dries up.

  • gimpi1

    A quick question, Herm, do they ever notice that the predicted disaster (communist takeover, massive pandemic, Christian concentration-camps, secular-humanists outlawing the Bible, whatever) NEVER HAPPENS? I mean, it really never happens. From here on the outside, it looks like, when their doom-and-gloom predictions don’t pan out, they just pop out the next one, and the people in the pews never remember all the failed predictions. Is that what happens, or is there something I don’t know about going on behind the scenes?

  • gimpi1

    I do, I do. Ahh, the good old days…

  • gimpi1

    At the risk of jumping in where I’m not welcome, I would say, based on the past track-record of end-times predictions just in the last 30 years (1984, 1988, 1990, 1998, 2000, and 2012) that, with respect, yes, it’s a bubble off plum. None of these predictions have ever panned out.

    If you go back and look at them, you will see strong similarities between these various “prophets,” with just the scary group at the center changing. This appears to be just re-hashing old material for a new market. Romance-novelists do it all the time, but they aren’t encouraging people to hide in the woods from the government.

    Track-record matters. The track-record of people making these predictions is not good. I, personally, wouldn’t invest my money based on the advise of a broker with this sort of history of error. Would you?

    (And, no, I haven’t heard anything about any one-world government. Are you talking about the U.S. military exercises that another commentator referred to? That’s hardly a harbinger of a U.N takeover.)

  • Chris Mason

    Now that you mention it, I suppose it could be possible that both of those scenarios are true. He’s possessed by an evil spirit… and he’s cooperating.

  • gimpi1

    I admit, I lean towards the simplest explanation. Occam’s Razor and all. I think he’s just a greedy man who found he can peddle a product that’s simple to produce and won’t be examined critically. “Blood-Moons” indeed.

    I suppose it’s easier than working…

  • Herm

    I love you gimpi1. Your fair and balanced assessment is so much more altruistically supporting than most Christians are today on any subject. I would suppose that your bleeding heart has the panache of deepest darkest red.

    It amazes me that so many of reasoning human kind search for a Higher Being because they know they couldn’t possibly have designed what they have been born into, and survive to think upon, only to try and fit the entirety of GOD into their Exhaustive Handbook of Divinity. We could write books forever to encapsulate what we know, while more is passing by unseen because we were so focused on our scholarly writing, and still have an eternity left to chronicle.

    Jesus is chronicled to have kept alluding to family because He knew that we could all relate to once being a child as had He. At three years old could any of us have documented our relationship to and with our parents, even if they were as young as 21, and our siblings beyond stick figures? It seems impossible to even begin to portray a single Father eons old who is perfectly comfortable as a purely spiritual creative being. We haven’t even yet been able to convey His sense of humor much less His infinite bond of parental love.

    You cause me to muse and for that alone I have unending thanks!

  • Herm

    What is the definition of insanity?

  • Herm

    … always my age!!!

  • Herm

    Even if they did happen what is one singular focus on self sufficient bunker down alone going to accomplish? … I’ll be alive to restart my family seed and hopefully the whole human RACE to start this impotent insanity all over again?

    I like being free to think, feel and savor in the company of who ever is around to share while I have this opportunity of influence. I would actually prefer three years of quality ministry to help others to discover an equal opportunity, pick up a cross, and die in all anguish that just maybe my beloved species might learn to live longer and enjoy more. No, I don’t have a Jesus fixation but I have learned much from the non doom and gloom predictors, the givers of hope for mankind, like Jesus of Nazareth, Gandhi, and Dr. Martin Luther King Jr..

    Thanks!

  • gimpi1

    I have heard people referring to the phenomenon of “forcing God into a Bible-shaped box.” The thing is, to me, if there is a supreme being, they’re going to be far beyond my understanding. No book, no belief, no human-developed concept will ever embrace the totality.

    I get the idea that we (almost) all have family, and can understand that simile. But thats all it can be, a simile.

    One of the most profound disservices I think Mr. Hagee does is dumbing down the very idea of the divine. I feel he’s going for the lowest common denominator because there’s money in it. And I don’t have much respect for that.

  • Herm

    Mr. Hagee uses his cultured fatherly facade to lead from his top down. The leader he professes to follow is documented to have led from our bottom up. That is the disservice John Hagee does to those hungry, knowing no better, waiting for any scrap of nourishment that may spill over and fall from Hagee’s overflowing cup of narcissism.

  • Aaron Wenninger

    I think the passage is quite clearly speaking of the end of the age. Starting FROM the temple destruction vs 24…
    Luk 21:24 They will fall by the edge of the sword and be led captive among all nations, and Jerusalem will be trampled underfoot by the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.
    Luk 21:25 “And there will be signs in sun and moon and stars, and on the earth distress of nations in perplexity because of the roaring of the sea and the waves,
    Luk 21:26 people fainting with fear and with foreboding of what is coming on the world. For the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
    Luk 21:27 And then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
    Luk 21:28 Now when these things begin to take place, straighten up and raise your heads, because your redemption is drawing near.”
    Luk 21:29 And he told them a parable: “Look at the fig tree, and all the trees.
    Luk 21:30 As soon as they come out in leaf, you see for yourselves and know that the summer is already near.
    Luk 21:31 So also, when you see these things taking place, you know that the kingdom of God is near.

  • Herm

    When we accept what appears as a Dove alighting on our heart and mind to become beloved children of God we know then the kingdom of God is here.

  • gimpi1

    Well, yes… I’ve never gotten the “bunker” mentality, either. Actual experts in survival say people are better banding together in disasters, rather than hiding out and shooting anyone who darkens your door. Also, if you believe in the “end-times” I don’t really understand what you’re hiding from. If you think the end is inevitable, why hide away? What does that change?

    Frankly, it appears to be just a paranoid fantasy with a religious twist. Not my favorite cocktail.

  • Scott_In_OH

    God is given credit for being merciful, and/or they give themselves credit for convincing God there are some good people down here, so He shouldn’t destroy everyone yet. They are Jonah to the Ninevites.

  • zb

    Well…I might not agree with your eschatology all the time (I’m more of a historicist more or less), but THIS dude….this dude….

  • gimpi1

    I used astronomical binoculars. Great view in the Pacific Northwest, except for occasional clouds drifting over. Was nice and clear for Totality.

  • gimpi1

    Yes. Scott, I’ve heard that one. I’ve also heard “The world did end – in a way. You just didn’t notice. It’s a new world now.” I believe that was the Seventh-Day Adventists.

    However, that only works once, I would think. After the fourth or fifth “We prayed, and God was merciful,” statement, you would think people would begin to wonder. I mean, would you invest money with a stock-broker who had this sort of batting average? I wouldn’t.

  • There’s a difference between “end of the age” and “end of the world.” What in the text causes you to believe that Jesus all of a sudden stops talking about his own age and starts talking about one in the distant future?

  • Aaron Wenninger

    Well, when Jesus says “what is coming on the WORLD and “they will see the son of man coming. (Thisdid not happen in 70 ad). two major hints that he is referring to the second coming
    not to mention my study bible notes written by scholars see it that way

  • Brian Wilkes

    Haven’t heard the expression “pull a Harold Camping” in years!! Thanks, Benjamin, for reminding us of the cost of prophetic hubris. Oh, and Gimpi1 – blood oranges solve the issue, with panache!

  • The Greek word translated “world” in your translation is “oikoumene” which means “the empire” or “the world as we know it.” It does not mean the entire planet. This makes sense. Since the planet is spherical, there is no way everyone on the planet could see the Son of Man coming.

    As for whether or not they saw him coming in 70 AD, they most certainly did. The coming of the Son of Man image comes from Daniel 7, where the Son of Man coming with the clouds refers to him receiving the kingdom from the Ancient of Days. Unless you’re going to say Jesus is not King, this is aptly fulfilled in the generation of the disciples.

    The issue is that you are reading this apocalyptic language very literally, and that way of hearing it is completely foreign to first centuries Jews. It would be like if I told you it was raining cats and dogs, and you said, “No it isn’t. There’s just rain out there. No cats. No dogs.” You would never hear my statement that way, and the disciples would never hear apocalyptic prophecy that way, either. It was a very well-established genre in the first century.

    Take just Isaiah for instance. The Day of the Lord is said to be near to the conquest of Babylon. When Babylon is conquered, the sun, moon, and stars all go out. Did that happen? (Isa. 13)

    In the conquest of Egypt, the Lord was said to come swiftly in a cloud and everyone would tremble at His presence. (Isa. 19)

    In the conquest of Edom, the heavens were supposed to be rolled up like a scroll and the stars destroyed. (Isa. 34)

    In Jeremiah, we get the Lord coming in the clouds and the heavens going dark. (Jer. 4)

    These are just a handful of many, many examples in the OT, and that’s not even touching all the extrabiblical apocalyptic literature. The disciples know that all this stuff about things falling from the heavens and the Lord coming with the clouds does not mean they literally happen that way. They happen in the historic judgments, like the destruction of Babylon, Egypt, Edom, Assyria… and Jerusalem.

  • Aaron Wenninger

    Respectfully disagree with your theology.

  • And that’s fine, but just so we’re clear, I gave you actual textual and historical reasoning for my view. You might weigh it against the argumentation you offered and see which set seems to be more firmly established.

  • I remember my neighbor’s mother was trying to spook my mother back in 1982, because the planets were going to line up just right. All the sun’s ducks are going to be in one row and everyone’s gravity was going to rip each other up.

  • Aaron Wenninger

    No I don’t buy your premise of Jesus not referring to the end of the age /second coming. He speaks dually of the 70 ad events and end times. .. why would signs in the heavens not be for the end times. ..also do you think Christ’s second coming has happened?

  • Aaron Wenninger

    Can we agree he is speaking of the End times in vs 35

    Luk 21:34 And take heed to yourselves, lest your hearts are weighed down with headaches and drinking and anxieties of this life; and that day should suddenly come on you;
    Luk 21:35 for it shall come as a snare on all those sitting on the face of the whole earth.
    Luk 21:36 Watch therefore, praying in every season that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things which shall occur, and to stand before the Son of Man.

  • John Leach

    http://youtu.be/zPHKg0M3mEo i found this quite interesting…check it out.

  • Because, as I showed you, the OT is full of “signs in the heavens” for temporal invasions and destructions of historical empires. It is just chock full of prophetic images of stars falling from the skies, the heavens passing away, smoke that goes up for ever and ever, moons turning to blood and sun turning to sackcloth, and the Lord coming in clouds that all refer to specific historical incidents the prophets point out by name (Edom, Babylon, Egypt, Assyria, Syria) where those empires were actually conquered and destroyed, yet the sky remained intact, the fires eventually went out, and nobody physically saw God arriving on a cloud.

    These are just the images people used then to talk about the destruction of a political power and the great changes this would bring on. So, when Jesus uses those same images to talk about the destruction of Jerusalem, it makes perfect sense. What would have been utterly confusing to the disciples is, if all of a sudden, Jesus switched gears without any warning and quit talking about the destruction of Jerusalem and started talking about the end of the universe.

    The coming of the Son of Man that Jesus talks about in the Olivet discourse and tells the high priest of that time that he will actually see (Mark 14:62) has already happened. It happened when the Ancient of Days bestowed the kingdom on the Son of Man. And Jesus having that authority also made him judge, which he did, on unfaithful Jerusalem and eventually the Roman Empire.

    We do get an inkling from the OT prophets that there is something still to come involving a world free of sin and distress and final resurrection – something we also see at the end of Revelation. That, I would say, has not happened yet and we still hope for it. But 98% of what wingnuts say the Bible prophesies about future events fit just fine with the audience who actually received that revelation.

  • No, he is referring to the end of that age. Once again, the Greek word your translation translates as “whole earth” is ges which simply means “the land.”

    A big part of Jesus mission was to warn Israel of the wrath that was about to come upon them and the hope that would come from a divine deliverance in response to faithfulness. This is why he warns his followers to flee Jerusalem when they start seeing the signs that the destruction is coming. This is a key mechanism by which the early church not only survived but spread beyond the immediate area.

  • Janice Brantner

    Revelation is a book of symbols. There is quite a bit of agreement among Bible scholars on what many of those symbols mean, and some disagreement. Horses do not mean literal horses, mountains do not mean literal mountains, crowns do not mean literal crowns (although some will tell you they are looking forward to their literal crowns) and so on. Whatever the moon represents (some think it represents Judaism and the sun represents the light of the Gospel) we can be sure that it does not mean the literal moon.

  • Janice Brantner

    Biblical prophecy can be true on more than one level. I agree it is symbolic, not literal. But just as there were huge political changes due at that time, we can see another upheaval in our day which is necessary for the coming time of a world free of sin and distress and the resurrection. All the corrupt political, social and financial systems have to be dissolved to make way for a society based on justice and righteousness.

  • Doctor Greybeard

    As a scientist and a cultural Christian (as well as a member of a liberal Anglican congregation) I feel truly blessed and happy to find your blog. This discussion harkens back to the chats I had with two of my spiritual “fathers.” One was a Bretheren elder and the other was a Trappist monk. Both took the same tack you do: The New Testament must be read with the discernment that allows for understanding the audiences to whom it was addressed. Paul clearly states that he is answering queries from specific congregations, the Christians of Corinth, for one example.

    Lunar symbolism is a lovely Mythological comfort, but astronomy and physics (Thank you, Brother Kepler.) which are based on observation, drive all sorts of phenomena, including eclipses. That things line up is, as Sagan and Tyson both pointed out, a pattern… We humans love patterns, love making sense of them… even if we have to project our own psyche into them to do so. To use planetary and solar events as harbingers of the future is nothing more than astrology. Thanks again for this very lovely gift of finding your blog.

  • I agree that all the corrupt systems of the world have to pass away, including America and Israel (the nation). The question is whether or not that is the focus of the NT in general and Jesus in particular.

    I’d say that the new heavens and earth is a motif we see on the fringes of eschatological hope, but they are far more concerned with the future of the people of God at the time the revelation was given to them. We have no scriptural basis to see a lunar eclipse and assume it means something big is about to happen to the nation of Israel, nor do we have a basis for looking at revelation given to a particular group of people in their historical contingencies and assuming that it’s really for a group of people thousands of years (and counting) into the future.

  • Alf Penner

    I hope he comes right out and categorically says, “This is FOR SURE what’s going to happen!” and then watch him try to get out of it later.
    On another note, I recall a conversation I once had with someone who espoused this sort of theology. They were convinced that Israel was the ‘chosen nation’. So I asked this question: “So, if I renounced Jesus as Lord and Saviour and called him a false messiah and convert to Judaism and move to Israel, I’ll be saved?” No answer.

  • Daniel Carlson

    In one way or another there’s always been ‘premillennial dispensationalists” around, which is essentially what this man and his following is. It’s very much “theology of glory” (you can look that up online). The problem today is that much of mainstream evangelicalism has been indoctrinated into at least some concepts of this heterodox theology (I’m being kind). For example the concept of a “rapture” is a difficult concept indeed to justify. There are literally two sentences in Scripture which ‘could’ be understood that way, if there weren’t literally dozens of other places in Scripture with not only refute a “rapture” but also shed a right light on those two short passages. But the “rapture” idea is loved by some because it’s “epic”, and we all love epic storylines (Jesus on the cross is VERY epic but blood moons and raptures and literal dragons and beasts from the sea are apparently more epic…and thus we have the “Left Behind” series).

    Faith is in Christ, and Christ alone – His death on the cross for the sins of the world and His resurrection from the grave. And when we read Revelation or other prophetic books or passages, we should first read them in the light of Christ and His words rather than in the light of imagination, glory, or current events. Much of the prophetic writing in Scripture is apocalyptic; it’s means to represent actual things without BEING the actual things. And by “represent” it doesn’t mean that the author just couldn’t explain what he saw, so he did the best he could (locusts being helicopters or bombs or whatever, for example). What it DOES mean is that the author knew EXACTLY what he saw or what God revealed to him, but he hid it behind a symbol which would be well-understood by his particular audience, but perhaps not so well-understood by, say, the Romans. And MOST of the text of Revelation was and is meant to bring comfort and hope to the readers, not fear and anxiety.

  • Timothy Hawk

    Great insights. About your last phrase: and I sure was filled with fear as a teenager watching “A Thief in the Night.” Glad I am free of that nonsense.

  • Guest

    Would “Lunartic” be a suitable label for Hagee?

  • Jerry Holden

    Only God is fit to judge the heart and intent of a man. Mr. Hagee presents at it’s core an emotional argument which should make most rational people pause.
    The fact that his argument lacks substance however does not imply equivocation.
    It is my personal belief that Mr. Hagee is a genuine and sincere person. His goal is simple…He wishes to save as many people as possible before the Day of the Lord comes. He comes from a fire and brimstone background….evidenced by his preaching….with a strong emphasis on prophecy. God has some strong words for people who need signs to believe. God also understands our own human need to be “right” which often leads to being wrong. This is why God invented Grace!!!!!
    It is not out of malice or greed that Mr. Hagee acts. He is simply caught in a trap that most humans fall into. Putting God in a box so he is easy to understand and communicate to other people. The obvious fallacy is whose box gives the “right” view of God. Is he setting himself up…probably. But if you ignore the Blood Moon hype most people feel a palpable real concern about the state of our country and the world in which we live. Mr. Hagee may be proven incorrect about the second coming. He is however not wrong about major change coming for both the world and this country. Pray be vigilant be fearless and above all LOVE…..

  • Andrew Dowling

    These imminent Rapture believers need to put their money where their mouth is. Forget a date, pick a year . . pick a DECADE when the end times will come. I say they won’t. It’s a bet I’d win EVERYTIME :

  • Andrew Dowling

    Right . . if the omnipotent God of the universe is pissed at you, your fortress in the woods isn’t going to fool anyone :)

  • Janice Brantner

    I certainly agree about the lunar eclipse. I see the moon as a symbol in Revelation. I guess I would be called a historicist regarding Revelation. I see connections between Revelation and the history of the church from the time of the apostles until about 100 years ago. In my view it is all in the past now except the establishment of the new heavens (religious system) and the new earth ( a society of justice and righteousness) and the destruction of all evil.

  • Mark Edward

    Irenaeus isn’t the only, or even the primary, evidence used in arguments for the late date. Like I mentioned above, the most significant evidence is the Revelation’s own usage of, and subversion of, Roman propaganda that didn’t exist until after 70 AD.

  • harleyblueswoman

    why are some people so quick to want to end the world???? I kinda like it here….we have work to be done but it’s only been 2000 years since Jesus died….that is just drop in the bucket in His time….

  • Jonathan

    I just looked at some of the more negative reviews of “The Rapture Exposed”. As is to be expected, many of them are just rants by people who can’t handle their beliefs being challenged. However, some of the more sensible negative reviews say that her book focuses too exclusively on the “Left Behind” series (most of which I never bothered reading) rather than dispensationalist attitudes as a whole. Would this book be worth reading by someone who isn’t super familiar with Left Behind?

  • Don Lowery

    Never having read the Left Behind garbage either…but more than familiar with its rantings coming out of a fundamentalist background…it’s a title people will be the most familiar with…even if they have not read it. The biggest problem with this series is that it’s the public face for bad/faulty theology.

  • David Andrew Yaconis

    I already saw Potholer54’s debunk of this on youtube. He also debunked a claim that earthquakes happen every so many days. A combination of fuzzy math (Bush/Gore debate reference) and cherry picking. Fun videos.

  • Jack Greer

    You telling me the book pf Revelations has already passed?

  • Odd Jørgensen

    Or you can take the sensible path and not put any stock in the bible at all. It was written in an age of ignorance and superstition, and it is clear from all its contradictions and glaring falsehoods that it has no grounds in reality.

  • Faith Byrd

    Hi, four months ago, I have a huge fear about what is going to happen on September 2015 during the final blood moon, like there’s going to be a global earthquake, or a economic collapse, or a huge asteroid, I’m so scared and terrified and my autism can’t take much more of it. Can you pray for me, please? I’m so frighten.

  • michelle

    I disagree it is not a sin to warn the world of danger and ask that people turn back to G-d and repent. The Last days are here and Jacobs’ trouble has began. It’s no coincidence that the blood moons fall on Jewish Holy days and it is no coincidence that world chooses not to take part in these Holy days. I see the sign of Jonah, the prophet that was given a task and refused. We all refuse our task ( to tell the world the good news that the messiah is coming) and the prophets are no longer even given a platform to speak as it is considered a sin.

  • michelle

    Three wise men followed a star which lead them to a baby who is the savior. G-d created the Earth, Sun, Moon and stars if he wants to communicate with us by using these signs who are we to refuse.

  • After the Blood Moon comes the Godzilla El Nino. Which means it’s supposed to rain a lot. Kinda of like Godzilla vs the the Super Blood Moon!

  • JohnStefanyszyn

    “blood moon”….sounds like part of a pagan religious ritual.

    The “religious” ( ex. Jews, “Christians”(Hagee)) and others hype up the”cult like” observation of the physical appearance of a “red / blood moon”.

    ( a “blood moon” is caused when the earth blocks out the light of the sun onto the moon in a total eclipse. The “reddish” colour is caused by the refraction of the red light wavelength by the earth’s atmosphere.)

    The important significance of the mention, in scripture, that the moon will turn red / will darken is that the earth will darken the light of the moon, not in a physical sense but in a spiritual sense.

    Spiritually, this means that the WAY OF THE EARTH ( of MAN) will cause to OBSCURE the light onto the moon, the light reflected from the sun…that it will OBSCURE the Light of the One God , the Light of the One Truth in His assembly ( i.e. symbolically the moon)..that the WAY of MAN will place itself in between the One Truth of the Creator and His Son Jesus Christ….making itself into an image of ‘god’ that all of mankind will worship and carry its mark on their foreheads and hands.

    The prophet Daniel describes this in the following words…”And he (the last king of the north – leader of the beast) shall plant the tents of his palace BETWEEN the seas and the glorious holy mountain”.

    There is only one belief that ALL of mankind has embraced as his way of life…and that is FREEDOM ( freedom of self-rights, freedom of religion).

    And this FREEDOM dictates that it is RIGHT, a right, as a false light, to be free to worship ANY ‘god’.

    …this is the abomination that desolates , that OBSCURES, the True Light of the One Creator, which is defined by the Lord Jesus Christ.

    This is the tribulation, the testing that One Creator has sent upon man to test those that claim to serve His Son Jesus Christ…but many of the stars will fall and be darkened by their compromise for their first love for FREEDOM.

    Very soon, the Lord Jesus Christ will return, as a thief in man’s eyes, to rule the earth in obedience and power as the ONE KING according to the Will of ‘I AM’ and NOT according to man’s first love for his freedom, for his desire to serve and magnify oneself (XES) as a ‘god’.

  • Dan Andrews

    I don’t know what details Hagee has used, but other people who were posting about tetrads and blood moons had numerous details wrong. Eg they claimed blood moon tetrads hadn’t happened before in the past (except in 1493); however, There
    were six in 1501-1600, four in 1401-1500. From 1400- year 0, there have been
    30. From 1400 to 2000 BC there has been about 100.

    Another is that it won’t happen again for 500 years; but there will be 8 in the next 500 years, and there have been 8 in this century alone.

    A third claim is that there were only 2 in the last century (1900-1999); there have been 5.

    You can get NASA info from http://eclipse.gsfc.nasa.gov/LEcat5/LEcatalog.html

  • You are right about one thing, in a way. Namely, is not really a coincidence that these so called ‘Blood Moons’ fall on Jewish Holy days,especially since the Jewish religion follows a Lunar Calendar. So, it was bound to happen. To ascribe any special significance to a purely natural phenomenon, is, to put it bluntly, stupid theology. John Hagee is neither a prophet of your god, nor is he a Biblical scholar. He is nothing more than a grifter that preys upon people’s ignorance of their Bible, all the while reaping the rewards.

  • liberalinlove

    If you listen but once to his oratorical style, it bears little resemblance to the winsomeness of Christ. He browbeats, name calls, spreads hatred, fear and promotes blind loyalty to a principle that does not hold ideology accountable to the wisdom of Christ. Plus he can give you a pretty good headache after a few minutes.

  • liberalinlove

    The ideal of those who follow Christ, is to follow him whether the world ends tomorrow or in a million years or never! Why the fear mongering? Being called to hope is the greatest gift of the gospel.

  • Elizabeth

    Except when these predictions based on stuff like THIS do not come true, it’s not leading to REAL belief, is it? It’s just people being scared, getting their “ticket” to heaven just in case, and then going right back to normal when the horror doesn’t happen.

  • Petronius_Arbiter_II

    One might think that the 1844 “Great Disappointment” of the Millerites would have put Americans as a whole into a permanent, deep-seated state of skepticism towards ALL end-of-the-world doomsayers.

    But it seems hardly anyone remembers how many of Miller’s followers were left impoverished by having given away their worldly goods in anticipation of an apocalypse that never happened.

  • Elizabeth

    In the current political climate, it’s a bit tempting to wish it all would go away. Until you remember that a lot of death and destruction is involved in the end of the world. Argh.

  • Mary Hanner

    What will end this world is climate change and the pollution of the ocean with plastic and senseless wars and the list goes on and on….I doubt it’ll be a red moon. Living for many people has become so shallow and sometimes desperate that they latch onto these magical ideas. Thank you for this article, Benjamin Corey.

  • Mary Hanner

    Yes. It was probably presented as a play for the people of that time because they didn’t read and drama is always a good way to get a point across.

  • Stephen

    I think the best way to handle the “blood moon” is enjoy it! What more could you ask for to watch the cosmos at work….God’s creation, ongoing and grand. May do an animal sacrifice later, though….never want a fire and brimstone pastor mad at me.

  • liberalinlove

    And of interest as stated in the clip, the Blood Moons are not visible in Israel. You’d think the U.S. is the center of all biblical prophecy the way some people preach.

  • liberalinlove

    When someone is set up as a prophet and his prophetic word does not come true, it can negate pretty much everything he has said before and after the failed prediction.

    Deuteronomy 18:20-22
    But the prophet who presumes to speak a word in my name that I have
    not commanded him to speak, or who speaks in the name of other gods,
    that same prophet shall die.’ And if you say in your heart, ‘How may we
    know the word that the Lord has not spoken?’— when a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, if the word does not come to pass or come true, that is a word that the Lord has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously. You need not be afraid of him.

  • Colin Smith

    Blood moons are basically lunar eclipses or near eclipses. Eclipses can only occur when the moon is full. The Jewish holidays concerned are linked (so I believe) to the full moon which makes the chance of an eclipse coinciding with the holiday that much greater.
    Eschatologists need to take a leaf out of Einstein’s book of proverbs.
    “Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.”

  • Jen

    Thank you for sharing this!! I have always believed Hagee to be a false prophet that God speaks of and that he twists the bible verses for his agenda of making his wallet fat only!! I have never felt completely comfortable in many of our southern churches. When I read my bible I get a whole other story from the verses than is taught in society today! I also do not believe in Israel as the modern day chosen people of God! Jesus said the only way to God was through him!! I’m so glad I discovered your blog!! Makes so much sense to me!!

  • Amen to that. What a load of bunk this guy trots out. Still as long as it’s bringing money in to his coffers, he’ll continue to trot this rubbish out. Why anyone would *ever* be gulled by this tripe is beyond me. Still, I guess the money held by the gullible is the same colour as that held by the cynical (or just plain sensible); he won’t care who it comes from!

  • Sean Permann

    i wonder if all the people that Noah warned for 120 years said the same thing, “dont buy what he is selling!” Did God not say he uses signs in the heavens? the sun, moon, and stars? not only that but the blood moons and solar eclipse have meaning in jewish culture. to ignore the facts is insane.

  • laughterjones

    Hagee is wrong and so is much of this article. There are basics of prophecy which you both are lacking. Not surprised however. The Word says even the elect will be deceived. Your and Hagees reliance on yourselves are staggering.

  • laughterjones

    I don’t believe Hagee is right, but this article relies zero on scripture. Basis for the argument is them self.

  • laughterjones

    This article is garbage. Yes Hagee is wrong, but so is 99% of this blog post.

  • Htimez2

    Knowing an uber liberal wrote this article keeps it in perspective. The author also believes in Socialism and redistribution of wealth.

  • Doctor Greybeard

    You say that like it’s a bad thing.

  • Doctor Greybeard

    For someone who believes in a literal Noah and a literal global flood, a couple of questions. How did Kangaroos get from Australia to Mesopotamia in order to join the ark population? And, How did all those millions of different insect species found in the tropics all fit on the ark? Oh, and Penguins, how did they get so far north without dying from the equatorial heat?

  • Doctor Greybeard

    “Study to show yourself approved….” God delights in human intellect applied to foolish ideas.

  • One Truth

    Its not a bad thing if you are a sponge who will not work. yet wants to eat from others plates.

  • One Truth

    Did you not read your bible? God brought them there.

    That is certainly easier to believe than the theory that all things just….Appeared from nothingness.

  • Oh, not even close. I collect end of the world predictions. For those disappointed by this most recent lack of apocalypse, the eBible Fellowship’s fourth prediction for the end of the world is next Wednesday, the seventh of October!

  • Only those? Ah, not everyone follows them as intently as I do. From 1984 to 2015, there were actually over 60 such predictions. Harold Camping made a total of five predictions, Pat Robertson made two, Edgar C. Whisenant made three, Ed Dobson made one, Jerry Jenkins and Tim LaHaye made one, Jerry Falwell made one…

  • People do drift away after failed predictions. The problem is, those who stay are the ones for whom reality makes no impact. It’s a self-selection process.

    Related: When writing a scam email, it’s best to include a lot of ridiculously implausible claims and details. The more intelligent people pick up on the scam and stop reading. Those who continue to the end are the gullible fools, which saves the scammer time…

  • Bones

    No scientific theory says life appeared from nothingness.

    In fact the genetic code confirms evolution and destroys creation.

    Especially when it’s revealed that chickens have genes for teeth, humans have genes for tails and whales have genes for legs and every now and then those genes are activated.

  • Bones

    Hagee and his false prophecy mates are in it for the attention and the book sales. (Hi, Hal Lindsey)

    The reward of a false prophet of course is to sell more books updating your prophecies.

    People should be studying Elaine Pagels work on Revelation who has spent years researching Revelation.

    https://vimeo.com/34799872

  • Bones

    Prophecy isn’t fortune telling or divination.

    The prophets looked around at past and present political events and interpreted them specifically calling out injustice eg Daniel’s prophecies, prophecies about the destruction of Damascus, the various conquests of Israel and the surrounding nations by Babylon, Assyria, Persia, Greece, Nathan’s condemnation of David’s behaviour, Malachi’s condemnation of the corruption of the priesthood (commonly thrown at people as stealing God’s tithe), the Book of Revelation and it’s references to Imperial Rome as the beast (although apocalyptic is a different genre)…..

    Somehow in Christianity it’s no longer about condemning injustice which sounds a bit Lefty unless it’s against the gaybut is more about bizarre fortune telling whether it’s end of the world nonsense or predictions about people buying a car and getting a hot wife or what they should do in the morning.

    It seems to me that in the prophecies I’ve heard from Christians, God really doesn’t have much important to say.

    The only person I would regard as a modern day prophet would be Martin Luther King and some of the liberation theologians.

    Oh and many of the Messianic prophecies weren’t even regarded as such. Matthew used the Hebrew Scriptures to present Jesus as the new Israel.

  • Bones

    So did Jesus….

  • Bones

    You mean like the Disciples…….

  • Bones

    I used to remember hearing long incoherent sermons by my friends on the Millennium Bug. It used to annoy me no end because it sounded like complete bunkum.

    They stopped their nonsense of course.

    Do people still believe barcodes are to do with the Beast?

  • Bones

    Yet again science triumphs over ignorant dogma…..

  • Bones

    “Is that crazy?”

    Yes.

    Of course if you have a problem with your bad government come on over and live in Australia. Our government couldn’t organise a root in a brothel, much less enslave a population.

  • One Truth

    The Disciples worked harder than anyone else ever has and they did not ask for anything. They did however accept what was offered while on the road.
    Jesus Christ taught them to rely on Him and He would provide while they traveled. And He provided, through God Fearing Believers.

    Big Difference Bones

  • One Truth

    Seriously Bones……The genetic code confirms evolution? Come on man……

    I once asked a professor, how do you guys date the fossils? He replied, By the rock that they are found in. So I asked, How do you date the rock? He replied, by the age of the fossils.
    Hmmmm

  • Herm

    That is funny. You must have been schooled parochially. Some of us have been taught a little newer method called carbon dating. You should treat yourself to looking up a little about the human genome. Oh, before I forget, we’re pretty sure now that nothing but our dead moon revolves around us. We can trust Galileo now and not the church who silenced him.

  • Yes, one’s economic theory is very important to a proper exegesis of Jewish apocalypse. Thanks for keepin’ it real, dawg.

  • I’m pretty sure this did not happen.

  • Matthew 24 does not count as scripture?

  • Herm

    Stephen Hawking agrees, though not mathematically provable, there must have been something before the big bang. We live in a cosmos in a constant state of change, at minimum billions of our years old, that has not once been able to stop or go back.

  • Doctor Greybeard

    The same story that is repeated in many many sacred texts…. Uh huh. Sorry but your literalist interpretation of the bible is a failed exercise in parochial thought. I suppose you never wear clothing of mixed fibres and never cut your hair too, eh? Shrimp cocktail? Ham at Easter? Literalism has failed miserably to demonstrate consistency with history or science.

  • Doctor Greybeard

    Agreed

  • Doctor Greybeard

    You have posted this word for word in many places. Spammer and troll.

  • One Truth

    Actually, It did.

  • Doctor Greybeard

    Home schooling strikes again.

  • I don’t believe you, unless we’re missing some context like, “This was my Christian professor’s mockery of evolution.”

    Even someone like you realizes this is an obvious circularity. No professor is going to say this aloud and not realize it, and certainly nobody familiar with evolution would say something like this.

  • One Truth

    First off, Because you say no { professor } would ever say such a thing, does not mean that no { professor } has ever said such a thing.

    Second, whether you believe me or not, does not matter to me.

    Third, anyone who is familiar with the theory of evolution, and stands behind it, has nothing intelligent to say anyhow. Science debunked it long ago…they need to get over it and move on.

    But wait….That would mean that they would have to accept the only other logical conclusion….God as the intelligent and all powerful Creator.

  • Ok, what’s your professor’s name that said this? I’ll check your story.

    Also, it’s pretty amazing how the overwhelming amount of scientists think the theory of evolution works pretty well since science “debunked” it a long time ago, and everyone who believes in evolution is intrinsically stupid. I’m sure Stephen Hawking would find it useful to know that he has nothing intelligent to say and is really just a big, dumb, moron.

    I mean, where were all the scientists when science debunked evolution? Didn’t they get the memo that science was chugging along just fine without them and, a long time ago, proved all the actual scientists wrong?

  • One Truth

    “Also, it’s pretty amazing how the overwhelming amount of scientists
    think the theory of evolution works pretty well since science “debunked”
    it a long time ago, and everyone who believes in evolution is
    intrinsically stupid. I’m sure Stephen Hawking would find it useful to
    know that he has nothing intelligent to say and is really just a big,
    dumb, moron.”

    I guess you didn’t read my last paragraph, They would have to give up their high paying careers’ let go of their egotistical pride, that typically comes along with being an evolutionary scientists, say they were wrong and accept Gods Word as Truth.

    Stephen Hawking, Neil DeGrasse Tyson etc…..Windbags of Humanistic Idelology Nonsense.

  • Trilemma

    Sounds like something Ken Ham would say. Pretty sure I read something like that on AIG’s website.

  • I didn’t catch your professor’s name.

    Why would scientists lose their jobs by agreeing with scientific data? That makes no sense.

  • Alan Christensen

    I prophesy that Four Blood Moons will hit thrift stores beginning in early 2016.

  • Bones

    Yeah right. The Bibles pretty clear on our responsibility to help the poor or is it sponges. As usual you literalist types leave that out. God has much more important things to say about the gay doesnt he?

  • Bones

    Wow. A leap from genetic code to fossils.

    The genomes of every species has been mapped out showing a clear link. You know the same science which is helping us understand hereditary conditions in humans.

    Its game over man.

    PS why does God activate our dormant gene for tails. Every now and then babies are born with tails.

  • Stephen

    Ha, thought this blog might go away….but after sacrificing my animal to Hagee, during the Blood Moon, he sent me a note stating “he might have been wrong, should have checked with the scientists and subject authorities”. Darn, I thought it would be a note from him to “rapture”, yet I already did….another loving day. He said he was off to sell another book, fear based. Just miss the old dark ages…miss that fear of the unknown. smile.

  • This is even dumber than Hagee’s take, and that’s saying something.

  • The Last Days were in the first century (Acts 2:16-17, Heb. 1:2, James 5:3)

    Jacob’s trouble was the Babylonian exile and its ending (Jer. 29:1-30:24)

    Jewish Holy Days are organized around moon phases, and the world does not take part in them because they are not Jewish. Paul says Christians should not be judged by whether or not they keep lunar festivals, (Col. 2:16)

    The sign of Jonah was that the Son of Man would spend three days and nights in the earth (Matt. 12:38-42).

    You have actually read the Bible at some point, yes? Because none of those terms mean what you’re using them for.

  • You’re fine!

  • Yes. With the possible exception of the very end of it.

  • Obviously there were dozens of arks and the one with the dinosaurs sank.

  • tsig

    Well their boss could magically produce food.

  • tsig

    Where were you 100 years ago?

  • tsig

    He was a professor of theology. right?

  • Bones

    Ken Ham had to go to the US because no one would listen to his nonsense here.

    I mean he was no more than a high school teacher.

    Plenty of nutters over there are willing to listen to him though.

  • The Happy Atheist

    I’m a historian, not an archaeologist, but my understanding of the process is that excavated materials are dated separately from makeup of the strata, then the results are compared. If the results differ widely, then we know that the materials migrated from a different layer. There’s nothing circular about that kind of reasoning.

    Of course, to make this work, one must accept uniformitariansm, which is perhaps the most fundamental scientific principle of archaeology: that natural processes functioned the same way two billion years ago as they do now. That’s why morons like Ken Ham and Kent Hovind go after it hammer and tongs.

  • Snooterpoot

    It wouldn’t surprise me if Hagee points at the hurricane currently moving up the east coast and says, “See? I told you so.”

  • Snooterpoot

    I guess your professor failed to mention carbon dating.

    carbon dating
    noun
    : a scientific way of finding the age of something that is very old (such as a dinosaur bone) by measuring the amount of certain forms of carbon in it

    Full Definition
    :the determination of the age of old material (as an archaeological or paleontological specimen) by means of the content of carbon 14e

  • Jeff Preuss

    You can have him back.

  • Jeff Preuss

    Wow. Can Ken Ham even celebrate Easter, or is that a straight-up abomination?

  • Bones

    Consider him our gift…

  • “Science debunked it long ago”.

    At the risk of beginning another debate along the lines of ‘Oh yes, it did’, ‘Oh no, it didn’t’ – science still believes in evolution. At the risk – which I am prepared to take – of sounding superior or snooty, I am a professional biologist and well-versed in current thinking. Which, of course, makes me a non-voice in your eyes, I appreciate, so I will also establish my Christian credentials (which, because I take a contrary view to you, you will no doubt also discount as so much soap bubbles).

    So then, let me tell you that I have the Spirit of Christ. “Jesus is Lord” – by your own rules, nobody can say that except by the Holy Spirit (and yes I said it out loud and I live it out in my life). I am a servant of Jesus Christ the Son of God. I have walked with Him for 35 years and I minister in power in His Name. I bear the Fruit of the Holy Spirit.

    You see, there are people like me, who believe just as strongly as you do, who also believe in evolution. The Bible does not say that evolution did not happen. The word is not even in the Bible.

  • The only way you could possibly be able to meaningfully comment on these people’s thoughts or work is if you actually knew what you are talking about.

  • Nail. Head. Hit. On. Arrange the words ;)
    Well said gimpi1 :)

  • olokun

    It is got meaning across several indigenous cultures around the world and quit reading d bible literally . you just wrote that the celestial bodies are used as signs by God yet religious ppl will condemn the works of psychics ,astrogers etc.as demonic and yet be accepting of prophecies of there so called religious clerics. Shior.

  • olokun

    Thank you. have never thought of this , very intelligent question and knowing that this can never even be intelligently responded to makes me lol!

  • One Truth

    Let me get this straight. Life evolved over millions of years ( because that is what evolution is ), and you give all the glory and credit concerning this masterful creation of human life and the entire solar system to evolution, But, you believe in and worship a Creator, God, who claims that He created ALL things with a word?

    And I should take you seriously concerning your statement as being a born again Christian?

    I also have another question for the Professional Biologist…..Are we Mammals?

  • One Truth

    Yes, of course. and vice verse. So your point is?

  • Herm

    Our carnal bodies are mammal. The spirit of mankind is in the image of God, who is spirit. It is only by Their grace to share Their breath that we know Them.

    You remind me so much of the person at the bottom of the mountain looking up to tell everyone else their path is wrong. This based on a guide book written 2,000 years ago that theoretically began only 5,774 years ago at the creation of everything. This supported only by those slapping you on the back, in your magical religion at the bottom, for what an inspiration you are in your struggles to guide the lost at the top you can just barely make out.

    Take a chance to take just little baby one step toward the top. The air is more refreshing up here. Oh, look, there’s even another mountain beyond and our Guide says that one is next. You’ll have to trust me because you can only see the next one from here, sorry.

  • Your first question is sensible so I will answer it in like manner. I believe that evolution happened, and still happens, but I believe that God guided it. One of the things that the scientific understanding of evolution requires, for most commentators at least, is kind of an ‘upward force’ that makes evolution happen in a certain way. I believe that force is God. and so, yes, as you put so well – the masterful – yes, masterful creation of human life, the Solar System and beyond, yes, He created all of that. He created with several words, which He may well have spoken slooooowwwwwllllyyyyyy, but yes He created everything. Science and faith are two different toolkits, each of which are valid in their respective contexts. I elaborate on this idea in this blog posting: http://www.flyinginthespirit.cuttys.net/2015/06/03/the-double-standard-of-proof/

    I will answer your second question by referring you to my first answer. And just to be clear I didn’t call myself a born-again Christian – I tend to avoid labels and that one in particular because of all the negative connotations it carries.

    For your third question, I would refer you to any standard biology textbook, or even Google or Wikipedia. It will explain what mammals are, and you can make your own judgement.

    Oh and finally, thank you – and I mean this most sincerely – for not replying with a Scripture Salvo. That’s much appreciated :)

  • At the risk of answering a rhetorical question – I’m not quite sure whether it was one or not – it’s quite obvious what my point is. Until someone is academically qualified enough to comment on someone else’s work, at the level they work at, then comments referring to their work or thoughts as ‘nonsense’ will not be meaningful.

    For example, I personally would not comment on the work of, say, someone who publishes research in the field of geology, as I know next to nothing about that subject. In the same way, people whose minds do not stretch to the level of thought of people like Hawking et al (and I include myself in those people whose minds do not stretch that far) should not even attempt to plumb the intricacies of their work. Do you understand those mathematicians’ chalk-boards covered in all the indecipherable scrawl? Because I certainly don’t. And because of that I can make no meaningful comment as to the validity or otherwise of their work. I would leave that to those who know what those scrawls mean.

    That’s not to say, of course, that we cannot in general terms comment on what we think it’s all about. But we should not diss those who understand these things simply because we ourselves do not understand them. God certainly understands the maths; indeed He invented it! But then He can comment all He likes….but instead He chooses not to. Because, in their own way, those equations describe discoveries that those scientists have made about the nature of God’s creation. And that’s fine with Him.

  • One Truth

    “it’s quite obvious what my point is.”

    Yes, did you not get my reply? Vice Verse? Who is right?

    You try and mix worldly humanism with Christianity. Futile.

    Tony, Please read 1 John 2:15-17. Read and Understand if you can.

    I could care less about the work, the ideology, the opinions,the test’s, the results, the theories, the assumptions, the thoughts, the negative spew, of those who lie against the origin of Gods Entire Creation, which HE MADE WITH A WORD.

    Have you ever heard DeGrasse Tyson or Hawking speak their opinions regarding { Intelligent design by GOD } ?

    “In the same way, people whose minds do not stretch to the level of thought of people like Hawking”

    Wisdom comes from God alone, not man.

  • One Truth

    “He created with several words, which He may well have spoken slooooowwwwwllllyyyyyy”

    Are you suggesting that our All Powerful God has a speech impediment?

    “And just to be clear I didn’t call myself a born-again Christian”

    That says it all right there. My curiosity has been satisfied.

    “For your third question, I would refer you to any standard biology textbook”

    So they have decided to change this answer, along with the age of the planet ( several times), since I was in school. Hmmm

    “Oh and finally, thank you – and I mean this most sincerely – for not replying with a Scripture Salvo. That’s much appreciated :)”

    Yes, of course Tony…. The others here who have not been…Born Again… by The Holy Spirit of God do not like it when I do that either.

  • One Truth

    Certainly Herm. Thank you again for your great insight.

  • Herm

    You’re very welcome.

  • I will reply to this for the benefit of the other readers who actually want to know what I meant. Otherwise I would have left this discussion as pointless.

    “Are you suggesting that our All Powerful God has a speech impediment?”

    Most of my other readers here would recognise that this was a device to indicate that God may have taken millions of years to Create Things – thus replying to one of your points – or He may have taken only a few days.

    “”And just to be clear I didn’t call myself a born-again Christian”

    But in the original context of the paragraph that line refers to, I made it perfectly clear where my spiritual beliefs lie. You have ignored that context. I have set out very clearly – like St. Paul does – my spiritual credentials. And before you trot out the ‘Lord, Lord’ Scripture, yes, I feed the hungry, clothe the poor and what have you. So you can’t get me with that one either. My credentials are clear, and if you met me, you would know me by my fruits. I am known among both believing and unbelieving friends alike as being a man of great faith and integrity. I note that you have not established such a baseline; all you have done is to quote unspecified professors and spell ‘vice versa’ incorrectly. You clearly know the Scriptures, by which you think you have eternal life, but you do not know much about the points you are trying to discuss, and I am sorry brother, but your ignorance – meaning that you know little about the issues – shines through. All you appear to be able to do is to advance unfounded contrary opinions to all who offer reasonable ideas. As is usual with people like you, you have simply descended to the level of denigration of other forum contributors – me, for instance – rather than properly addressing the issues under discussion.

    I really don’t know why people like you come on these forums, you know. But if you come on in order to shed light on those who walk in darkness, you fail. And if you come on to ‘witness’, then you fail at that too because you are being a Bad Witness. The Kingdom is not about rules and so on, it’s about righteousness, peace and joy. Fruits of the Spirit. When people see that in your life, your witness will be good.

    Having said that, all is not lost! I believe that once in Heaven, we will spend a lot of time laughing with those we disagreed with in life. If your sense of humour is up to it, may I respectfully recommend my blog post on this issue: http://www.flyinginthespirit.cuttys.net/2015/02/22/leaning-and-laughing/

    Enjoy.

  • One Truth

    Tony, Its not about all the good things that you think you have done, Its all about what Jesus Christ did for you on the cross.
    I could care less about your list of brag, and I do not supply one myself, as you clearly pointed out, because as stated above, its not about me.

    It is also fishy when one makes a claim of Christianity, yet refuses to freely admit to have been Born Again by the Holy Spirit. That says much more than you can even imagine. I would guess you would also refuse to publicly be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ as well.

    You have clearly witnessed MANY people bashing Christianity in conversations with me and NOT ONCE and I mean NOT ONCE, have you chosen to stand up for what you SAY you believe in or spend one minute of your time countering them…..Also fishy.

  • Femi Emmanuel

    Dear Jack,

    Some of the revealed have indeed passed, some are in progress and some are yet to be fulfilled.

    We must be sober and be vigilant as we look for the fulfilment of God’s word. At the same time we must not be led astray by false doctrines and human wisdom.

    What the Spirit says to the churches is equally for our admonition.

    Peace.

  • yes!

  • I’ve just had a thought. I wonder what these people *do* on such a day – the predicted End of the World.

    I mean, do they stand around looking at the sky? Do they even get out of bed? Do they throw a party? (Just kidding; I’d have thought they’d be too serious for that sort of frivolity) But seriously, just what do they do? I’d have thought at least taking the day off work would be an idea…. ;)

  • Kneeling in prayer and singing for much of the day, fading to a grim, vaguely desperate silence broken by increasingly half-hearted discussion about what they’ll do when Jesus comes as the day wears on, and finally slipping away to go home when it becomes evident that Jesus is not as punctual as they had expected. The next day, fewer people show up… but there are always those who arrive promptly, with declarations that the good lord’s mercy has been demonstrated once agai, but next time

  • Wow, I never knew any of that. Guess it makes sense, though, as far as they’re concerned. Thanks for enlightening me!

  • It’s a cycle, and every person who makes it through another revolution is that much less connected, that much more determined to ignore evidence in favor of beliefs. They are the unshakable.

    We recently celebrated the 200th anniversary of the death of one would-be prophet and her false prediction of end of the world. She still has followers who believe her prophecies were 100% accurate.

  • This is probably a minor point, but I often wonder about when they say ‘the world will End on [this date]’, whereabouts in the world will that date be valid? Because it is still ‘yesterday’ in some parts of the globe right now, and it is also ‘tomorrow’ somewhere else. Or at least, it’s not exactly that, but certainly enough to mess things up for the predictors. So what happens in these cases? I seem to remember vaguely when that ‘We can know!’ brigade predicted their End of the world, they actually specified a time and a time-zone that that time would apply in. Naturally it was sometime during daylight in continental USA…… What do you know about this sort of thing, Sam?

  • Part of it is just plain ethnocentrism, a neglect to consider that other parts of the world, even just a few hundred miles away, aren’t identical to one’s own location. Ironically, Harold Camping actually predicted that the rapture would progress by timezone boundaries, rolling across the globe and sweeping up the faithful starting with New Zealand and working its way westward.