Yes, What Israel Is Doing To Palestinians Is Actually Genocide.

Yes, What Israel Is Doing To Palestinians Is Actually Genocide. March 1, 2017
Screen Shot 2017-03-01 at 10.17.19 AM
Drone footage- the destruction of Gaza, 2014

In the Israel/Palestine conflict, is Israel guilty of genocide against the Palestinians?

Yes– absolutely.

The other day I wrote a short piece on why the Bible does not command us to blindly stand with the modern state of Israel, and one of the points I made is that Israel is guilty of genocide. There were no shortage of internet commenters who objected to my use of this word and felt it was over the top. However, I stand by my assertion that Israel is guilty of genocide, so allow me to expand upon that.

I believe the main reason many push back on the idea that Israel is guilty of genocide is because of a lack of understanding of the full nuance of the word, and what genocide can look like in a modern context. While rounding up people for mass executions would be obvious evidence of genocide, the reality is that genocide can take place in ways that are more subtle– making it palatable for the masses, and even seem justified at times.

Some scholars have referred to the Israel/Palestine conflict as “incremental genocide” and I would agree with that term. Instead of an overt, blatant attempt to eradicate a people group, incremental genocide involves actions and policies that are designed to slowly erode, break up, and destroy a specific population. Think for example of early American history and the genocide of Native Americans. While it wasn’t always mass killings, genocide occurred by military conflict, expanding land holdings, resettlements, and creating conditions that were destructive for the indigenous population. While it took many years to complete, and while it took many forms, what early Americans did to the indigenous people of North America was nothing short of genocide.

The same holds true for Israel.

The legal definition of genocide includes the following:

“Acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group such as:

(a)        Killing members of the group;

(b)        Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;

(c)        Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part.”

While A and B are both elements we find present in Israel’s approach to Palestinians, the key aspect of genocide being waged by Israel is found in C: the deliberate infliction of conditions that in part or as a whole will destroy a people group. Arab Christians and Muslims known as Palestinians have been undoubtedly the target of Israel and a desire to eradicate them from the land.

When Israel was created it resulted in an instant crisis for the Christians and Muslims who had lived together quite peacefully for hundreds and hundreds of years. Even today there are somewhere around 3.5 to 4 million Palestinian refugees who wish to have the right to return to their homes and land– a request that will never be granted by Israel.

For those who remain in Palestinian territory, they might as well be living in a massive open-air prison, because they live under the occupation of a foreign army. Children are routinely tear gassed on the way to school. Imports are severely restricted, with even basics like water being tightly controlled. Their rights of passage are severely curtailed– families have been broken up and people have died at military checkpoints because they were delayed or denied passage to access critical medical care.

To top it all off, what little land Palestinians have left is under systematic erosion by Israeli policy. Illegal Israeli settlements continue to crop up in Palestinian territory, in violation of international law. These illegal settlements, in addition to literally confiscating land from indigenous people, often bring violence to the Palestinians who live there. Even just a brief youtube search will bring up countless examples of women and children being assaulted by illegal settlers, or examples like Palestinian farms being attacked and destroyed at harvest time.

Let’s not be dishonest in the ultimate goal here: it is to rid the land of Palestinians.

Capture their land. Develop policies to evict them from their houses. Send in settlers and soldiers to colonize what land they still have. Refuse to let refugees back. Make them miserable under military rule. Limit their access to basic, life-sustaining resources.

The goal? Be not deceived: this is ethnic cleansing.

Do the Palestinians ever fight back and use violence? Yes, of course. This is equally wrong. It is also highly ineffective because it plays right into the hands of Israel, who uses this as an excuse to respond with utterly overwhelming military violence, such as arresting and incarcerating children accused of throwing rocks, or wiping out entire communities in the name of self-defense, such has been seen in Gaza.

So here’s where we’re at: Many of the indigenous people were displaced upon the creation of the modern state of Israel, and the number of displaced people has continued to grow. They are refugees who live in poverty and painful conditions at refugee camps. Israel has systematically expanded its borders to functionally capture more and more land that belonged to Palestinians. Of what’s left, Palestinians have to suffer under a brutal military occupation where so many aspects of life are restricted or deprived. To top it all off, Israel continues to expand illegal settlements into Palestinian territory, further creating conditions designed to break up and destroy the will of Palestinians to even exist.

That folks, is genocide. It is incremental, slow-motion genocide. If the international community continues to turn a blind eye, it will do nothing short of ensure the complete destruction and or displacement of the Palestinian people.

Is calling this genocide over the top? No, it’s not. It’s genocide. Legally. Morally. It’s genocide.

It’s just happening in slow motion, so the world doesn’t see it.

(And it’s being done by the people we’re told are God’s favorite, so we don’t even want to see it.)

 


unafraid 300Dr. Benjamin L. Corey is a public theologian and cultural anthropologist who is a two-time graduate of Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary with graduate degrees in the fields of Theology and International Culture, and holds a doctorate in Intercultural Studies from Fuller Theological Seminary. He is also the author of the new book, Unafraid: Moving Beyond Fear-Based Faith, which is available wherever good books are sold. www.Unafraid-book.com. 

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  • Herm

    Right, there you go again Ben, using facts to highlight the cancerous spirit of exceptionalism destroying the infighting descendants of Abraham without exception to any.

    Do you do this because it brings more interest in your blog, just because it is more constructive in spirit than any self-indulgent tribalism, or both? How dare you!?!?

    You are a studied man of the world, who has not been sheltered and is truly not naive. You insistently keep on adding one more nail to your cross and I thank you for the sacrifice! Love you!

  • >Instead of an overt, blatant attempt to eradicate a people group, incremental genocide involves actions and policies that are designed to slowly erode, break up, and destroy a specific population.

    Habakkuk 1.2
    O LORD, how long shall I cry, and thou wilt not hear! even cry out unto thee of violence, and thou wilt not save!

  • Paul Julian Gould

    I’ve been meditating on this, part II of a 2-part posting, as, while I don’t expect agreement, I do hope I can make myself understood.

    My beloved late Pop, may he be at peace, was a quite liberal Jewish man… My late grandfather, whom I never had the honor to meet was Orthodox; while not a Chassid, was from a shtetl in Galicia/Poland/Ukraine. Those family members that chose not to follow him here in the ’10’s and forward have been nourishing the Polish topsoil for generations. (Grandfather David passed in ’51 from arterial sclerosis at the age of 59… was a businessman, but off the clock a gourmet Kosher chef… chicken fat did him in)

    My late Pop’s eyes would flash in indignation were anyone to have accused him of being a Zionist… My late Grandfather subscribed to the conviction that only ha-Mashiach (the Messiah) could establish the political state of Yisro’el (Israel)

    Those that insist that the current political entity of Israel, especially amongst the so-described Christian Zionists, do not explore the logical progression.

    Those American-style Evangelical Protestant Christians who base their “theology” on not much better than Hal Lindsey, Frank Peretti, and the “Left Behind” series (which folks must admit, there seem to be a disturbingly huge number amongst our fellow world-citizens), don’t really follow up that it seems to be imperative that every professing Jew must go to occupy that particular piece of real estate, and those that don’t identify as the modern Evangelical type of “Messianic” will be fried on the spot.

    Not all Jews are Zionists. I happen to be one who is not. The political state of Israel is an established fact. And such nation has every right to exist that applies to every other nation in the world community…

    But… too many here in this country of the USA who don’t read anything more than their pet affirming, confirmation-biased blogs, “news” sites and not much of anything else assume that Mr. Netanyahu’s Likud Party doctrine is ‘Eretz Yisroel and that the converse is also true are what was attributed to Mr. V. Lenin… “useful idiots.”

  • John Lindsay Mayger

    Obviously Israel needs Lebensraum for her ubermensch people. Their attitude seems to be why should the untermensch palestians occupy land that their betters could have.

  • Herm

    … latent Stockholm Syndrome?

  • Patricia Sjöberg

    It takes a great deal of courage to speak out like this. Sadly, people only want to see what they want to see, not what is actually there. Keep telling the emperor he has no clothes on, Benjamin.

  • richard

    i would probably be asked to leave my church if i share this on facebook.

  • brittxo
  • Willie Sam1

    This guy literally uses every cliche of pro-Palestinaian rhetoric. Why is there no mention that the Palestinians were offered a state 5 times or the hundreds of suicide bombings from 1993-2004 before the security fence was built. Having sympathy for the Palestinians is one thing but distorting the reality of the conflict is unhelpful and certainly not in keeping with the teaching of the Jewish carpenter from this area that the author purports to follow.

    Israel is a complex society in the middle of the most volatile area on earth.. It is far from perfect, but what I consonantly see are those denominations that are dominated by replacement theologies are most likely to unfairly criticize Israel. The underlying message is that Jews killed Christ and are now behaving like Nazis perpetrating ethnic cleansing against the Palestinians. What a perfect marriage of old fashioned antisemitism and the academic left: Martin Luther and IIan Pappe. How virtuous the author must feel.

    .

  • Willie Sam1

    Yes, proselytizing is illegal in Israel and the penalty is stoning. That’s why the fastest growing religion in Israel is Messianic Judiasm and why it is the only country in the middle East that has a growing Christian population. Currently 20% population are Arab Israelis and 50% of the population of Israel are descendants of Arab Jews who were kicked out of the Islamic nations that surround the country. Please try to inform yourself better.

  • richard

    willie sam 1
    why so snarky ?

  • It should be trivial for you then to provide the maps, the finalized offers, and the legal basis for any such deals that have been offered. Obviously, for any of these offers you so flippantly make assertions about will be in full compliance with Article 22, paragraphs 1 and 4 of the League of Nations Covenant which provides of course the legal basis for historic Palestine when Palestine consisted of a majority of Muslim Palestinians, nearly eight to one, and full compliance with Article 2, paragraph 4 of the UN Charter, and Article 49, paragraph 6 of the 4th Geneva Convention.

    Or, provide evidence that all of the above mentioned bedrock international legal principles have been rescinded. Oh, and don’t forget the part about where Israel changes both the Israeli declaration of independence which currently and has since May 14th, 1948 asserted that Israel’s legal borders as set forth under UNGAR 181 are “irrevocable” as well as the testimony six days later by the provisional government of Israel that UNGAR 181 borders are the internationally accepted borders of the nascent state of Israel see S/766 and that they fully intended to comply with international law.

  • Eric11210

    Oh Ahmed, as always you do love your grand lies. No, the Declaration of Independence never once claims the borders suggested in 181 are irrevocable. That’s a lie. I have shown you time and again the binding minutes of the provisional government which prove unequivocally that they chose to reject the borders after your fellow Muslims rejected them: http://mfa.gov.il/MFA/MFA-Archive/1999/Pages/Shelley%20Kleiman%20-%20The%20State%20of%20Israel%20Declares%20Ind.aspx. As for your other lie, the ‘testimony’ you claim is actually a letter which never once claims that Israel has accepted as binding the suggestion of 181. It merely responds to questions from the UN stating that your fellow Muslims had invaded and as such, Israel’s forces were operating in all of the former mandate.

    Then again, why would you bother with facts? You love to lie.

  • Terri Knoll

    What would you do if someone came to your house and threw you and your family out and moved in. Would you not fight back? Palestinians have a right under international law to resist by any means. How you can excuse it by saying “they were offered a state 5 times” is disgusting. You offer people a state on their own land? The world is waking up and this genocidal apartheid state will end, just as apartheid ended in South Africa. One state with equal rights for all, right of return and recompense. Whomever doesn’t want that, can leave and go back to Europe (where they originated from) and leave the land to the real Semitic peoples.

  • Eric11210

    This is nothing but more nonsense. Children being tear gassed? Really? As for your nonsense about people dying while trying to access medical care, it’s medical care provided by Israel for free to the so called Palestinians and they use that as a way to try to blow up Israelis: http://www.snopes.com/politics/israel/eldad.asp/. Once again, facts seem not to matter to you. Just your hatred of Jews.

  • Terri Knoll

    if the Islamic countries wanted to get rid of Israel, it would have been done already. Get a copy of Miko Peled’s book The General’s Son to find the truth about poor Israel’s troubles in the area. His grandfather helped establish the state and his father was a general in the IDF until witnessing the genocide. He then became an activist for Palestinian rights. Talk to Arab Christians, especially those in Bethlehem, to find the truth about Christianity in Israel.

  • You really are just stupid, I am not a Muslim, I am an American Indian atheist as you well know. I am a reformed Zionist as many Natives are. We were brought up different than you alt-right antisemitic Hasbara trolls who spend all your time trying to convince the world that there is a worldwide Jewish conspiratorial imperative to commit incremental genocide. Ironically, and quite sadly, everything I have long said would eventually come to pass, is indeed coming to pass. Now you alt-righters have brought on the old tyme antisemitism in the US, and it’s no wonder you hide behind anonymity as you and your sock-puppet follow me around the ‘net telling your usual tales. But Eric Hammer with the Golan Telecom IP eventually you will and already have exposed your true self. You are simply incapable of comprehending that it is all quite out of your hands now.

    The One state(tm), with equal rights and equal votes from the river to the sea. Heh heh, and just like that old Shake and Bake commercial here in the ‘States from the 1960’s, and you hepped.

  • Matthew

    Can’t one be critical of the State of Israel without being accused of hatred toward the Jews?

  • Eric11210

    Classic Ahmed. He regularly defends his fellow Muslims who murder Jews in Israel and was positively giddy when rabbis were axed to death in a synagogue but of course, he desperately and laughably claims he’s not a Muslim and that he has no affiliation with them. Moreover, he can’t be bothered to respond to the facts I present except with another diatribe because he knows he has been called out on his tired lies.

  • For those of you who care about facts, and not malicious lies from anonymous alt-right antisemitic Hasbara trolls such as Eric Hammer, with the Golan Telecom IP (The Golan Heights is also illegally occupied and belongs to Syria by law) here are the relevant excerpts from S/766. There is no reason for me to lie, what would be the point to squander a twenty-seven years reputation for telling the truth using primary and secondary documents all along?

    On the other hand, there are clearly nefarious motives for Hasbara trolls to lie, a lot of people just get bleary eyed about the whole thing and do not bother to read the actual documents, so I want to make sure the official documentation and the link to S/766 goes on the record in this thread as I always do:

    [Start excerpt]

    LETTER DATED 18 MAY 1948 FROM THE ASSISTANT SECRETARY-GENERAL FOR SECURITY
    COUNCIL AFFAIRS ADDRESSED TO THE JEWISH AGENCY FOR PALESTINE, AND REPLY
    DATED 22 MAY 1948 ADDRESSED TO THE SECRETARY-GENERAL
    CONCERNING THE QUESTIONS SUBMITTED BY THE SECURITY COUNCIL

    Sir,

    I am directed by the Provisional Government of Israel to communicate to you the following replies to the questions addressed by the Security Council at its 295th meeting held on May 18, 1948 to the “Jewish authorities in Palestine”. These questions were transmitted by me to the Foreign Secretary of the Provisional Government of Israel in Tel Aviv.

    I have to point out that the designation “Jewish authorities”, which applied in the past to the Jewish Agency for Palestine and to the National Council of the Jews of Palestine (Vaad Leumi), now applies to the Provisional State Council and the Provisional Government of the State of Israel, jointly established by those bodies, and in which, since May 15, 1948, all legislative, executive and judiciary powers in the State of Israel are now vested.

    I have the honour, Sir, to be
    Your obedient servant,
    (signed) Aubrey S. Eban

    QUESTIONS TO THE JEWISH AUTHORITIES IN PALESTINE

    Question from the UN Security Council:

    (a) Over which areas of Palestine do you actually exercise control at the present time?

    Answer from the provisional Israeli government:

    over the entire area of the Jewish State as defined in the Resolution of the General Assembly of the 29th November, 1947 [UNGAR 181 borders]. In addition, the Provisional Government exercises control over the city of Jaffa; Northwestern Galilee, including Acre, Zib, Base, and the Jewish settlements up to the Lebanese frontier; a strip of territory alongside the road from Hilda to Jerusalem; almost all of new Jerusalem; and of the Jewish quarter within the walls of the Old City of Jerusalem. The above areas, outside the territory of the State of Israel, are under the control of the military authorities of the State of Israel, who are strictly adhering to international regulations in this regard. The Southern Negev is uninhabited desert over which no effective authority has ever existed.

    — End excerpt from S/766 [Emphasis mine and lightly edited for clarity]

    See for the full and entire document: https://unispal.un.org/DPA/DPR/unispal.nsf/0/B4085A930E0529C98025649D00410973 – Everyone can read the original document for themselves and quickly determine who is “lying”.

    I have always posted with my real name, I have been the editor of BBSNews for the last twenty-seven years, there is no way I would squander my reputation for truth based on the original documents to an alt-right antisemitic Hasbara troll. On the other hand, Hasbara, a Hebrew word for “explanation” which really is nothing more than propaganda have every reason to lie. These vile trolls lie easily because they know that most people get bleary eyed from reading the dry documents, this conflict has been allowed to fester for a century this year (Balfour Declaration November 2nd, 1917) and for most people they are just not that invested so they read the short versions and move on, always being misinformed by Hasbara trolls who hope for exactly that outcome. I hope that clears it up, and everyone who cares even a little bit about this conflict and the false claims made by these reprehensible trolls should take a few moments, read this official UN Security Council document from 1948, and learn that a lot of what they read from trolls like Eric Hammer are simply nothing more than a tissue of lies. I hope that helps clear it up. It won’t ever for Eric the troll because it is a congenital liar, but it may help others understand the actual facts a little better, with Donald Trump now in office (until impeachment) it has never been more important to become informed about the truth when it comes to the state of Palestine.

  • Actual facts matter to most people, but you are an anonymous antisemitic Hasbara troll and your motives to lie are quite obvious. The documented truth is available from many sources about Israeli “defense” forces routinely abusing Palestinian kids, it is reprehensible behavior and any US soldier caught doing such vile things would be quickly up on charges under the Uniform Military Code of Justice (UMCJ) and it certainly would not be ignored as is often the case in Israel which has two justice systems, one for indigenous Palestinians, and quite another for Israeli civilians [as fully documented by he highly respected Israeli NGO’s B’Tselem and the Association for Civil Rights Israel (ACRI)], mostly transplants from Europe and Russia.

    The following is an excerpt from a Human Rights Watch report in 2015, right now HRW is under threat in Israel as are all NGO’s working to get the truth out. I hope the photo does not get this pulled, note the grenade in the big bad manly IDF “soldier” who has the Palestinian kid by the neck. Here is the excerpt from the report followed by the link to the document in it’s entirety, as always Eric Hammer the lying antisemitic Hasbara troll is the entity that has trouble telling, and facing the truth:

    “Police have many times arrested students for throwing rocks at their vehicles stationed outside the school’s entrance, Ahmed said, including 2 of the 30 students in his class. Parents of other children at the school and members of a parents’ committee, interviewed separately, gave consistent accounts of the police presence at the school, and repeated incidents in which Israeli security forces fired tear gas and rubber bullets at students, often in the context of stone-throwing but students and their parents also allege without provocation on some occasions.”

    — Excerpted from Israel: Security Forces Abuse Palestinian Children
    Chokeholds, Beatings, Coercive Interrogations July 19th, 2015

    See: https://www.hrw.org/news/2015/07/19/israel-security-forces-abuse-palestinian-children

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/e6deba3035e6cca36bd40c3ceb24356479d4380832cc9e25481cb9f605654013.jpg

  • Eric11210

    Oh Ahmed, always telling lies and going on and on about the hammer you hit your head with while practicing murdering Jews. Oh and yes, we all know how proud you are of your pathetic hate blog which gets no traffic so you must troll other websites desperately trying to tell your lies to anyone who will listen. But don’t worry — the author is another anti-Semite like yourself who also hates Jews.

    And once again Ahmed, you show yourself to be a moron. The UN DID NOT ASK THEM WHAT AREAS THEY CLAIM. All that was asked is what areas they currently control. How stupid are you?????

  • Eric11210

    Sure Ahmed. Except that you have no facts to offer. Just lies.

  • Gaza civilians, often children, are routinely prevented from accessing health care in Israel. some dying while waiting to get through Eretz Crossing. In a quite recent example documented by the human rights NGO Al Mezan Center for Human Rights on January 22nd, 2017 entitled:

    “Palestinian Child Denied Access to Hospital by Israeli Authorities Dies”

    Has this to say about the latest incident:

    “On 14 January 2017, a 17-year-old child with a congenital heart defect from Gaza City, died after his crossing request was refused. The patient was summoned by Israeli security services and interrogated at Erez crossing. He was denied permission to access the hospital after he refused to serve as a collaborator for the Israeli authorities, a coercive measure regularly employed on Palestinian patients in need of permits.

    Al Mezan’s monitoring indicates that at approximately 4 am on Saturday, 14 January 2017, Ahmed Hasan Shubeir, 17, from Gaza City, died after Israeli authorities rejected his request for a permit to exit from Gaza to receive lifesaving medical treatment. According to his father, Ahmed had suffered from a congenital heart defect since birth and his father had accompanied him several times to Tel Hashomer Hospital, Schneider Children’s Medical Center, and Al Makassed Hospital in Israel and the West Bank. Ahmed’s health condition remained relatively stable throughout treatment, which started at birth. In February 2016, his family applied for a crossing permit, attaching medical reports showing that Ahmed’s health condition was critical. The Israeli authorities summoned his mother for an interview at Erez crossing, where they attempted to blackmail and coerce her into cooperating with the authorities in exchange for her child’s permit. She refused. After several hours of waiting at the crossing, in the end the Israeli forces allowed the child and his mother to pass…”

    See: http://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/palestinian-child-denied-access-hospital-israeli-authorities

    And the full report from Al Mezan Center for Human Rights here:

    http://www.mezan.org/en/post/21746

    Once again the fully and often discredited alt-right Hasbara troll Eric Hammer is simply lying for his own despicable reasons. It is not capable of telling the truth. It often engages in deflection and whataboutery, and is nothing but an Internet nuisance who I banned years ago. It has no discernible value whatsoever, not even as a curiosity. It’s only reason for being is ugly hatred of Muslims and Jews and its ongoing effort to paint Jews who do not support the illegal occupation of palestine by Israel as “achmed” and make other vile false accusations.

    I hope that Patheos sees this vile truly antisemitic troll for what it is, and leaves these documents and photos up as a reminder that knowledge is power, and truth will not be denied.

  • And finally, the often made claim using code words and many times overt attempts at a “virtual” genocide of the Palestinians, simply by denying that they exist, or that they are “so-called” or that they were named by Yassir Arafat and other various wild-eyed Hasbara claims. Let me set the record straight and I will start from about 2465 years ago all the way to about 1922.

    Thousands of years ago there lived a now famous historian named Herodotus. In his Histories, he recorded the following:

    “Now from the Persian country to Phoenicia there is a wide and vast tract of land; and from Phoenicia this peninsula runs beside our sea by way of the Syrian Palestine and Egypt, which is at the end of it; in this peninsula there are just three nations.” [Hdt. 4.39.2]

    Funny that, there is Palestine nestled in between Syria and Egypt, right where we all expect it to be and it is logical to conclude that in addition to both Syrians and Egyptians there were also Palestinians.

    See: http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0126%3Abook%3D4%3Achapter%3D39%3Asection%3D2

    Many of you are also familiar with the Balfour Declaration in 1917 where the British Foreign Secretary of the time first talked about the possibility of a Jewish national home within the “country” of Palestine providing the rights of the indigenous Palestinians were protected:

    “His Majesty’s Government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country.”

    See: http://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/balfour.asp

    And finally, it was none other than Winston Churchill who named the indigenous Muslim Palestinians as Palestinians in the British White Paper of 1922 when he wrote:

    “Further, it is contemplated that the status of all citizens of Palestine in the eyes of the law shall be Palestinian, and it has never been intended that they, or any section of them, should possess any other juridical status.”

    See: http://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/brwh1922.asp

    Yishuv Jews were included in this characterization as well. However, the official British Census of Palestine at the time found that the indigenous Muslim Palestinians were nearly eight times the number of Yishuv Jews. There can be no doubt upon reading the documents who was in the vast majority and it really is quite wrong to keep on pretending that Palestinian Muslims deserve to be called “so-called”.

    I would put the link to the census but if Patheos has the default DISQUS link settings, it will probably not allow more than three links per post for obvious reasons because of SPAMMERS.

    However, you can search for Hasbara News Club on Google (a new project of mine) and scroll down to the bottom for the link to the official British Census of Palestine in 1922 and I am including a photo of the front page of that document here in this post. I hope Patheos lets all these be, because this horrible alt-right antisemitic Hasbara troll Eric Hammer needs to be put back in it’s place by shining the light of truth upon it. Knowledge is power, and facts with official primary and secondary documents will not be denied by the likes of anonymous untruthful trolls like Eric.

    I expect it’s little sock-puppet “proud zionist” to come along directly when the usual call goes out for other Hasbara trolls to continue to muddy the waters of this debate with their constant antisemitic lies.

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/960610cefd67dfa73d4101b5e1fc5617e6a3f88278cefb58c5a598e1a92a71b6.jpg

  • Ooops, I did not cover the Israeli declaration of independence lie by Eric Hammer the confirmed anti-Semite, blithely slithering hither and yon, lying the entire way. It has always amazed me at how many of these creatures continue to lie when the official sources are at our fingertips these days with the Internet and smart phones and all that. I used to have to go to University libraries and public library’s but of course, I also love stocking the shelves in my office with historical textbooks and documents.

    So let’s bebop over the the Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs (MFA) and have a gander at what this declaration actually says as opposed to what Eric the alt-right antisemitic Hasbara troll wishes it said. This is directly from the document:

    “On the 29th November, 1947, the United Nations General Assembly passed a resolution calling for the establishment of a Jewish State in Eretz-Israel; the General Assembly required the inhabitants of Eretz-Israel to take such steps as were necessary on their part for the implementation of that resolution. This recognition by the United Nations of the right of the Jewish people to establish their State is irrevocable

    …THE STATE OF ISRAEL is prepared to cooperate with the agencies and representatives of the United Nations in implementing the resolution of the General Assembly of the 29th November, 1947, and will take steps to bring about the economic union of the whole of Eretz-Israel.”

    — Excerpted from the Israeli declaration of independence, accessed March 2nd, 2017 from the Israeli MFA [Emphasis mine]

    See: http://www.mfa.gov.il/mfa/foreignpolicy/peace/guide/pages/declaration%20of%20establishment%20of%20state%20of%20israel.aspx

    The resolution referenced from November 29th, 1947 is the partition resolution, i.e. the partition of the already existing state of Palestine[1] into two pieces against the will of the indigenous Muslim Palestinians who were not at all amused that the larger and more arable half of their country was being given away to a bunch of foreigners by international fiat in UN General Assembly resolution 181 of November 29th, 1947. Of course, the United Nations had no legal power to just split up an existing country like this; however by Irgun terror, and Lehi assassinations, and brute military force and the British leaving with the last straw being the Tale of the Two Sergeants[2], they headed out and the “state” of Israel was declared.

    The only legal borders of the state of Israel are the borders that they declared above as “irrevocable”. The UN Charter in Article 2, paragraph 4 explains the underpinning of the bedrock international legal concept of ‘territory acquired by force is inadmissible’. You will find this fact near the very top of UNSCR 242, the basis of the Two state Solution(tm) which has been purposely made defunct by the more than 640,000 illegal squatters sent into the state of Palestine over the last several decades in flagrant violation of Article 49, paragraph 6 of the 4th Geneva Convention, see also the decision of the International Criminal Court of Justice 2004[3].

    [1] The Statehood of Palestine, by Johnathan Quigley, [Cambridge University Press 2010].

    [2] Kidnap, Torture and Murder of Sergeant Clifford Martin and Sergeant Mervyn Paice [by the Yishuv terrorist group the Irgun, of infamous repute in the bombing of the King David Hotel, and also the international terrorist bombing of the Italian Embassy in Rome. Menachem Begin was the Osama Bin Laden of the mid to late 1940’s.] See: http://www.britishforcesinpalestine.org/attacks/sergeants.html

    See also: Anonymous Soldiers: The Struggle for Israel 1917 – 1947, by Bruce Hoffman, [Knopf 2015].

    [3] The Court finds that the construction by Israel of a wall in the Occupied Palestinian Territory and its associated régime are contrary to international law; it states the legal consequences arising from that illegality

    “All States are under an obligation not to recognize the illegal situation resulting from the construction of the wall and not to render aid or assistance in maintaining the situation created by such construction; all States parties to the Fourth Geneva Convention relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War of 12 August 1949 have in addition the obligation, while respecting the United Nations Charter and international law, to ensure compliance by Israel with international humanitarian law as embodied in that Convention…

    …The Court determines the rules and principles of international law which are relevant to the question posed by the General Assembly. The Court begins by citing, with reference to Article 2, paragraph 4, of the United Nations Charter and to General Assembly resolution 2625 (XXV), the principles of the prohibition of the threat or use of force and the illegality of any territorial acquisition by such means, as reflected in customary international law. It further cites the principle of self determination of peoples, as enshrined in the Charter and reaffirmed by resolution 2625 (XXV). As regards international humanitarian law, the Court refers to the provisions of the Hague Regulation of 1907, which have become part of customary law, as well as the Fourth Geneva Convention relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War of 1949, applicable in those Palestinian territories which before the armed conflict of 1967 lay to the east of the 1949 Armistice demarcation line (or “Green Line”) and were occupied by Israel during that conflict…

    …The Court ascertains whether the construction of the wall has violated the above mentioned rules and principles. It first observes that the route of the wall as fixed by the Israeli Government includes within the “Closed Area” (between the wall and the “Green Line”) some 80 percent of the settlers living in the Occupied Palestinian Territory. Recalling that the Security Council described Israel’s policy of establishing settlements in that territory as a “flagrant violation” of the Fourth Geneva Convention, the Court finds that those settlements have been established in breach of international law.”

    See: http://www.icj-cij.org/docket/index.php?pr=71&code=mwp&p1=3&p2=4&p3=6

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/7fb7e6a53a31dca60dcae7ecb51076b28f96717207da222b23baf1a0c985fd6a.jpg

    Clifford Martin with his mother and sister, Daisy. Photo: Jean-Pierre Roger, Daisy’s son. Note: Clifford Martin’s mother was an Egyptian Jew so by Jewish law he was Jewish and, in addition, Peter Davies who knew them both, in an interview on the Badil Resource Centre Site says: “For a little while, perhaps only a few days, I shared a tent in a camp outside Nethanya with Sergeant Paice and Sergeant Martin of the Army Intelligence Force Corps who were kidnapped by Menachim (sic) Begin’s IZL, taken to an olive grove where their bodies were booby-trapped with explosives and hanged. The irony of that incident was that on the one or two occasions we discussed the situation in the country, all three of us expressed varying degrees of sympathy with the Zionist cause.”

  • Okay, I think that should fully establish who has the facts, and who is lying, and who posts with his real name and photos as opposed to the quite disgusting antisemitic alt-right Hasbara troll Eric Hammer. It is people like this who really are more suited to Breitbart, Der Sturmer, and Daily Caller and the other racist Web sites that comprise today’s alt-right neo-nasi wingnuts who should not be allowed to post in polite company, they are just not quite right in the head.

    I am who I say I am, I post with my real name and my photo[s] and I have offered to “proud zionist” and Eric Hammer the troll many times the opportunity to go on camera with me and discuss the kinds of actual facts I have provided here, as opposed to the neo-nasi claptrap that these despicable and disgusting trolls exhibit on a daily basis.

    I ask that Patheos let these stand for all to see because we all must pull together and start exposing these horrible monsters with their nasty antisemitic musings for the truly disgusting human beings that they are. I think it is appropriate to end with Martin Niemöller’s poetic lament, I am not posting anymore in this thread, I have provided days worth of factual reading material that fully back up every word I have written today that will fully withstand any objective review of the facts gleaned from primary and secondary sources including various NGO’s that are under fire by Ayelet Shaked and others within Israel even as I type this.

    So I ask that it all be allowed to stand, this is a fine place to help expose these alt-right people.

    “First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
    Because I was not a Socialist.

    Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
    Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

    Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
    Because I was not a Jew.

    Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.”

    — Martin Niemöller – this version appears at the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/c04a299ca157937d2dd4eed10e65a83c84691b33f7c7886164dfa19b695dc1e3.jpg
    Michael Hess, reformed Zionist, editor of BBSNews 1990 to current date, and editor of the new project Hasbara News Club (HNC), http://hasbara.club, standing at the Petroglyph National Monument 2016 in Albuquerque, New Mexico where I live just off the res’. Well, one of them, we have lots of them here.

    At HNC, antisemitic alt-right Hasbara trolls such as Eric Hammer and “proud zionist” and all the others many of us see polluting comment threads all over the ‘net, will be forever banned by IP address using drop tables immediately upon discovery. HNC is for a frank and factual discussion among adults and not for Hasbara trolls who always gum up the works. we are looking for solutions based on the rule of law and human rights for everyone, Muslims, Jews, Christians and the non-religious or of other faiths or spirituality.

    You see alt-right antisemitic Hasbara trolls, I am exactly who I say I am. You have been served. We all must start speaking out and stand up and be counted for truth, fairness, the rule of law, and human rights.

    I do not remember a time in my lifetime when they have been more under threat, even in this “land of the free”.

  • Eric11210

    As always, Ahmed quotes his fellow jihadists and claims this is ‘proof’ of something more than his own delusions. Pathetic really.

  • David

    Well let’s see. When I have been in Hebron and Bethlehem I have personally witnessed children being tear gassed. Many times. I have breathed it myself while escorting children to school. Some very young, seven or eight. Here’s what I would suggest, get on a plane and fly to Tel Aviv then take a shuttle to Hebron and spend a week or so at Checkpoints 29 and 209 and others, see for yourself. Don’t take any persons word for it including me. Go see for yourself. I was like you at one time, oblivious to the facts. Then I actually went there and saw for myself. It changed my whole way of thinking. Of course that requires effort and an open mind, something in short supply these days. You haven’t a clue what Palestinian Muslims AND Christians have to endure on a daily basis. Is there violence by Palestinians against Israeli’s? Of course there is. And I certainly don’t condone it. However, I do understand why it occurs. Never, not one time have I been subjected to violence by Palestinians. Israeli’s on the other hand are some of the most vile and violent people I’ve ever seen. Palestinian Muslims and Christians don’t hate Jews, they hate their land being militarily occupied and being subjected to non stop harassment and downright oppression on a persistent basis. They hate the land they have owned for hundreds of years being taken from them. They hate that their children have to endure violence on a daily basis while walking to school. Get off your backside and go see it for yourself. Then again, it takes a lot of time to post 36,714 comments.

  • Eric11210

    Oh Ahmed, always desperately twisting facts. Pathetic really. You know full well that Herodotus did not refer to your fellow Muslims but instead to the Phillistines, which he later confirms by saying they are a seafaring people.

    As for the Balfour Declaration, it’s not a legal document. The Mandate for Palestine is. Article 2 says that THE LAND will be used for the Jewish National Home. Article 25 defines the borders of THE LAND and gives 77% of it to your fellow Muslims. It’s all right there in black and white but of course Ahmed loves his lies and twisting of facts.

    As for the White Paper, the reason he wrote that is because your fellow Muslims kept calling themselves Syrians while the Jews called themselves Palestinians. Again, facts are facts. They’re easy enough to find but you do love your tired lies.

  • Eric11210

    And yet again stupid, stupid Ahmed, I ask you where oh where does the Declaration delineate borders? It doesn’t because as I have shown you again and again, the Provisional Government voted to REJECT the borders since your fellow Muslims had already done so. You can lie all you like but everyone can see how stupid you are when you quote something and pretend it says something it doesn’t.

    As for Quigley, he is just as much a jihadist as you are and he is a laughingstock because nobody takes his moronic ideas seriously except for you.

    The ICJ issued NON BINDING advisory opinion. It does not represent international law. Yet again you have been caught lying and twisting facts. Pathetic.

  • Eric11210

    It wasn’t their land. The last sovereign of the area, the Ottoman Empire granted it to the Jews.

  • Eric11210

    Obviously you hate Jews.

  • Eric11210

    I already live here and see it all daily. Unlike you, I don’t go around looking for fake things created by the Palestinians for audiences like yours.

  • David

    That’s hilarious! Thanks for your input. At least I got one good laugh today.

  • David

    You’re right – facts are facts. I’m wondering though, does your so called “facts” give Israel justification to physically abuse young children? Because I’ve seen it up close and personal. I haven’t read about it or heard it, I’ve actually been to the occupied territories and experienced it first hand. So do the “facts” allow for child abuse. Do the “facts” permit downright theft of land and property? What I really want to know is if the “facts” allow for child abuse. People can cite “facts” all day long to justify certain behaviors I suppose but any rational and thoughtful human being would draw the line at child abuse. So I’m curious, where do you stand on those “facts”?

  • Eric11210

    When children are taught to be monsters and they try to murder people, then they need to be dealt with harshly. Then again, maybe you think this isn’t child abuse: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Dc47GsRqA8
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRuuDI0KCR8

  • Eric11210

    Frank and factual. Funny one Ahmed.

  • Eric11210
  • David
  • Eric11210

    Propaganda videos. Nice. Let’s see what we have here — Press TV, the Iranian fake news agency, a ‘documentary’ Pallywoood style with fake footage and Miko Peled, who is a known advocate for Jihad. I didn’t provide videos from propagandists the way you did. I provided videos straight from the Palestinians which show the truth, something you seem to have a very tough time with.

  • John Lindsay Mayger

    Shalom don’t be meshugga you sound Goy.

  • Eric11210

    Sure one can. But when Ahmed Hess is gleeful when rabbis at prayer are hacked to bits and when Jewish children are blown up in a discotheque, that goes beyond “criticism” and goes straight to pure, unadulterated hatred of Jews.

  • Eric11210

    Once again with the tried Jew hatred. Nice.

  • Israel (including the Jews) were scattered until suddenly and miraculously after 2000 years in 1948 the State of Israel was founded. “Israel On May 14, 1948, in Tel Aviv, Jewish Agency Chairman David Ben-Gurion proclaims the State of Israel, establishing the first Jewish state in 2,000 years.” This was prophesied in the bible but many felt it was impossible or misinterpreted. Those who feel that this land belongs to others do not fully understand history or the bible

    The prophecy in Zechariah goes further – all the way to the end of this age.
    Zechariah 12:3:”And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it.”

    Today’s Israel is spiritually very different from the original biblical Israel of David’s time. Their place as a chosen nation has been rescinded for now. Jeremiah 3:8. So the discussion is about secular Israel not biblical Israel.

    Whether Israel is performing a time-release Genocide is obviously hotly debated as per the many comments. What is not debatable is the outcome of this era ofviolence. Israel will be protected and the surrounding nations will not.

  • David

    Dude, listen. You and I will never agree. We see the world through different set of lenses. I have been there and witnessed acts with my own two eyes. It’s not like I’m reading about it hearing it second hand. I’ve actually walked children through tear gas and flash bangs to school. Now you don’t have to believe me and likely you don’t and that’s okay. I could not care less. Really, you come across as bitter and that is exactly what I’d expect from a Zionist because frankly that’s what I saw countless times. Bitterness. I have never been treated as poorly as I was by settlers. Spat upon for simply endeavoring to lend a hand to others. Many of the people I was helping were Christian and always non violent but they were treated like s***. It’s a shame that more people in the US aren’t better informed. Israel is an apartheid state yet Americans could not care less. Videos…who cares? My mind is filled with images of people, children being abused daily. That video is all I need to make up my mind about what the truth is.

  • Eric11210

    You came for a visit and your hosts made sure you saw what they wanted you to see. I live here. I see the reality every single day. I know what’s really going on because I’m not a tourist.

  • Matthew

    I see your point. Thanks.

  • Bones

    No.

    If you are critical of the foreign policies of the secular democratic state of Israel you are a nazi who wants to see all Jews dead.

  • Bones

    The only one protecting Israel while it steals Palestinian land is the USA and it’s supporters.

    Sure as f##k isn’t god.

  • Bones

    And sturmbannfuhrer Eric yearns for liebensraum while denying what people have witnessed with their own eyes.

  • Bones

    What does Martin Luther have to do with Israel stealing Palestinian land.

    Maybe i’ll go kick your arse out and take your house and give it to some Muslims because God said.

  • apoxbeonyou

    Horrible person. If you already live in Israel and you approve the Israeli treatment of Arabs, I have no use for your opinions.

  • Eric11210

    Of course not. Because you hate facts.

  • Eric11210

    Ah yes — the usual wild eyed accusations of Jews as the new Nazis. Boring.

  • Eric11210

    Actually, you are the one throwing around accusations of nazism.

  • Nixon is Lord

    You’re trying to have it both ways; having a god who can choose favorites and then saying we’re all equals.
    It’s the central fairy tale that keeps painting you into corners.

  • Abe Rahman

    You say equally wrong when the Palestinians use violence, I disagree, aggressor and victim can never be equal. Resistance by any means necessary and at their disposal is an internationally recognized basic right when a people are occupied by a foreign army. But I agree with you on one point, the use of violence by Palestinians at this point will only play into Israels hand and draw more aggression from the latter. A well organized boycott is the only answer, hit them in the pocket books, it’s more effective.

  • Win Mott

    Thank you so much for your accurate appraisal of what is happening to Palestinians. It takes both objectivity and courage, since apparently American orthodox Christians are expected to blindly support the State of Israel’s occupation, even when it has a violent, oppressive and racist government.
    I also think Palestinians would do much better to use non-violent protests, in the style of Gandhi and Martin Luther King, but understand their utter frustration with the situation. I don’t understand the refusal of American Christians to face the obvious facts of Israeli occupation and oppression over many decades. The rest of the world mostly seems to get it. It is sad when “alternate facts” driven by a political agenda replace truth.

  • Bones

    Nah…you’re the one supporting liebensraum.

  • Bones

    It’s funny how you’ve adopted Nazi liebensraum.

    It’s ironic really.

  • The Jack of Sandwich

    Who is this Ahmed you keep talking to?

  • warrior princess

    DNA studies confirm that 97% of people who call themselves Jews, ARE NOT descendents of Abraham.

    In 2001, Dr. Ariella Oppenheim (a Jew), a biologist at Hebrew University, published the first extensive study of DNA and the origin of the Jews. Her research found that virtually all the Jews came from Khazar blood.The newest DNA research science from Dr. Eran Elhaik (a Jew) and his associates at the McKusick-Nathans Institute of Genetic Medicine, Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine, has confirmed that:

    The various groups of Jews in the world today DO NOT share a common genetic origin, and their genome is largely Khazar.

    In fact, DNA research shows that the Palestinians actually have more Israelite blood than do the Khazar ‘Jews!’

    These DNA research results should cause you to question everything you know about modern day Jews and the state of Israel.

    Today they’re called Ashkenazi Jews, but they are a Jew by religion, not by blood. Most of them have Turkish-Mongol DNA.

    The 1905 Jewish Encyclopedia Vol. XI p 533, stated that ‘probably 95% of the persons included in these estimates of Jewish populations are Ashkenazim‘.

    The 1973 Jewish Encyclopedia documents that approximately 90% of the world’s so-called Jews are Khazar. A. N. Poliak, Professor of Medieval Jewish History at Tel Aviv University, says that the majority of Eastern European Jews are Khazar and Japhetic in origin, not Semitic. Immigration statistics indicate approximately 90% of the world’s so-called or self-styled ‘Jews’ living in 42 countries of the world are emigrants of Eastern European Khazar Jews. Jesus words that Jerusalem will be “trampled by Gentiles” are confirmed, as 97% of the so-called Jews in Israel are Gentiles. Since they’re not the descendents of Abraham, then they don’t have a right to the land or to persecute the Palestinians, who they kicked off of the land https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/5f96efc4f969beed6fe769f23dbb15dcc78b0f2ed5564bb8be7c9cfeb063f281.jpg

  • Eric11210

    Pure fiction. No such study exists.

  • Warrior Princess,
    You said, “These DNA research results should cause you to question everything you know about modern day Jews and the state of Israel.” Not really. The decision to found the State of Israel in 1948 was political as viewed by the world but it was actually prophecy being fulfilled for everyone to see. People who called themselves Jews and others returned to this land – a DNA test wasn’t required even if it was available.

    The bible clearly tells us that the tribes of Israel were scattered. From the Forerunner Commentary, “I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel” (Matthew 15:24). He also sent his disciples “to the lost sheep of the house of Israel” (Matthew 10:6). Even his statement in John 10:16—”And other sheep I have which are not of this fold”—implies that He recognized that the bulk of ten-tribed Israel was not among the Jews of His day. Our Savior certainly did not think Israel had irretrievably disappeared! And neither should we!

  • Rita Shryock

    So the world should tolerate Israel because God said so? Didn’t that same God say, Thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not steal, thou shalt not covet? Where do those things fit in Israel’s playbook? And why would God protect people who have such contempt for His commandments?

  • warrior princess

    The bible in revelations 2:9 and 3:9 also talks about the false jews called the synagogue of satan. The current Israel was not created by God but by the zionist Rothschild banking family.

  • warrior princess

    Eric go collect your shekels hasbara troll and get back on your meds

  • Eric11210

    Nice ad hominem. Unfortunately it doesn’t change the fact that you have zero proof because this ‘study’ never happened.

  • Not at all. Israel is a sovereign state. The world should respect its boundaries as it respects any sovereign nation.

    God did not judge Israel in this time. He told the other nations that hate Israel like Iran and so many others that they would not be successful in their attempts to destroy it. If you want to call it protection, it is not for their obedience to His laws. It is a necessary condition to full prophecy.

  • It takes people to carry out God’s will in relation to governments. If the Rothschilds did cause the creation of the State of Israel in 1948 it was to fulfill prophecy.

    The power brokers of the world today, known by various names including the Synagogue of Satan, are a reality. The verse in Revelation clarifies that those leaders are not Jews as they claim. The Rothschilds seem to fit that description.

  • Kit Bonde
  • Mahatma Gandhi

    Israel was born of terror and lives off terror. Its genocidal policies are well concealed and kept out of the radar of the media and NGO(s) which find harder and harder to pass through the Caudine Forks of the Jewish border guard.

  • Eric11210

    Classic. Deny facts and pretend that a meme is going to change the fact that your buddies are a bunch of sick liars.

  • Rita Shryock

    Israel doesn’t respect its own boundaries, or its own treaties, or international law, or the laws that, according to their own holy book, were laid down by the same god that they think gave them that land. Why should we respect Israel?

  • Rita,
    Israel is 2500 years down line from the Old Testament and todays Jews are more secular than their ancestors. So I don’t think that part of the comment applies.

    The basic reason we should respect Israel is the same reason we respect any sovereign country including our own.

    Since not all sovereign states are benign sometimes it is necessary to disrespect their boundaries and stop aggression.

  • Celeste Harrell

    It is such a frustrating situation, to watch people and policies uphold lies and corruption, yet thump the Bible as a person and government of compassion for the lives of other humans. SMH!

  • Celeste Harrell

    In the pocketbook with what resources?

  • Realist1234

    If God ‘protects’ Israel it will only be faithful Israel, that is, those who turn to the Messiah Jesus. If you don’t believe in Him, then you are not part of Israel at all because you have in truth rejected your own God.

  • SamHamilton

    I find Mr. Corey’s reasoning persuasive here, but I’d like to read a counter-point. Does anyone have a link to any of the Internet commenters who took issue with his original claim of genocide (preferably one that made substantive arguments; I imagine there’s a lot of vitriolic name-calling on both sides)? Was Mr. Corey talking about people in the comments box or other blogs out there on the Internet?

  • SamHamilton

    Resistance by any means necessary and at their disposal is an internationally recognized basic right when a people are occupied by a foreign army.

    This argument would not be persuasive to someone who believes that violence is wrong, regardless of the circumstances.

  • Abe Rahman

    I’m not trying to make an argument, I’m making a point wether it’s liked or not. The truth hurts, and the truth is, the international community has failed the Palestinians, a paper tiger. They have been trying to make this argument for decades, and the truth is, trying to convince people that don’t believe in violence is not working, they are being systematically occupied and killed for the last 60+ years. If you read my comment, I followed up by suggesting a boycott, which is a non-violent act, to be used, not violence. “By any means necessary at their disposal” does not explicitly mean violence, it could also mean non-violent means. While I sit here and explain the difference to you, Israel has murdered more Palestinians. You need to be convinced that Palestinians aren’t all about violence? Maybe you should convince yourself to stop needing convincing and visit the holy land for yourself and see who really are the ones using violence on a daily basis, and here’s a hint, it’s not the Palestinians.

    Please sharpen your critical thinking skills sir, they are a little dull.

  • Abe Rahman

    A cultural and academic boycott, a resource called BDS, although, it involves some financial boycotts also. It has gained a lot of steam over the years, and if most people didn’t have their heads buried in the sand, they might have heard of it.

  • SamHamilton

    Cool it with the insults Mr. Rahman. I read your entire comment the first time. I read your comment to mean that violent resistance by the Palestinians is justified (though not effective) because of the internationally recognized right to resist occupation. If I misinterpreted what you wrote, I apologize.

  • Abe Rahman

    it is justified wether you and I agree with it or not.

    I apologize if I came off as insulting, it’s just frustration with the situation.

  • hangemall123

    Ask your god to send a signed deed to you for the land of Israel. Nothing less will convince non Jews that what your people claim is true. Jews wrote the Bible so it doesn’t count.

  • I am not a Jew myself and I do not care what non Jews think about Israel. I am a Christian but I do not worry about what non Christians think about the bible. I am simply pointing out that Israel was prophesied to be the center of the end times battle between man and God. In order to be there Israel had to reappear. It did and it is and it will remain as stated in Zechariah 12:3.

  • S.Philips

    God gave Arabs plenty of land…around 58 Muslim nations!
    However Europeans like BEN do not want to give Jews even a tiny piece of land…How cruel they are!!

  • S.Philips

    Only to Israel, Creator of Universe ever promised a land….Still so called great Christians like Dr. Benjamin L. Corey deny that,,,,How sad!!

  • S.Philips

    Dear Abe,that land is already promised to Israel…They are not occupying it,,,,they are the rightful owners !!

  • Abe Rahman

    yea, i hear that is the lie going around. as much as you’d like to believe that, we all know that is propaganda. Sorry to tell you, people are waking up. by the way, the bible is not a deed and would never be admitted as proof of ownership in an unbiased and just court of law;-)

    P.S. if you allow the theft of Palestinian land and the denial of their basic human rights, you are setting a precedent that would allow the same to possibly happen to your children or children’s children in the future. Just saying.

  • S.Philips

    Dear Abe, it is not lie, but unchangeable word of Living God, the Creator of Universe.Written around BCC 1930. Unfortunately Arabs are not fighting Israel, but the One Who promised it to Abraham. Remember no court can stand against Him.

    It is not theft of Palestinian land. God permitted Palestinians to enjoy it so long.Now time has come to return it!!

  • hangemall123

    Are you waiting for the rapture?

  • Nick

    You should check out his previous article. It lays out why your 1st sentence is flawed thinking.

  • I would argue that God is not “protecting” biblical Israel at that time of war. He is keeping the State of Israel in place until He returns to fulfill prophecy.

    The Jews of Israel all have to accept Jesus as their savior to be part of the Kingdom – something they are unwilling to do in this age. But it will happen after the resurrection.

  • S.Philips

    which article…pl help

  • Nick

    It’s titled “No, The Bible Doesn’t Command We “Stand With Israel””

  • Jeff Preuss

    S has already weighed in on the comments on that article with his “proof.”

  • Jeff Preuss

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1274378/ seems to prove you to be incorrect.

  • Eric11210

    The moron above claimed that the study “proved” that virtually all Jews are from the Khazars. This study says nothing of the kind. It says that all Jews are related though there is a slight difference between Ashkenazi and Sephardi Jews.

  • Jeff Preuss

    And you claimed the study didn’t exist, not that it didn’t prove what she claimed.

    But, y’know, keep being hostile with each other.

  • Eric11210

    That’s a ridiculous argument. It like me saying that there are Martians living on this planet and then citing as proof the Roswell crash. Sure the Roswell crash happened. Doesn’t prove it was Martians or any kind of ET for that matter.

  • Nick

    OK. Cool. Thanks for letting me know.

  • Adrian S

    Meh, this conflict is 4-5 decades old now. If the Israeli would have wanted to exterminate the Palestinians they would have done so by now many times over. The fact that they’re still there proves you wrong. In addition, we have the 1-2 million Arabs that are Israeli citizen and living in other areas of Israel – obvious material proof against your claims.

    The living conditions in Gaza are bad and they’re the result of the conflict in which both sides are guilty, let’s not forget the role of Arab aggression against all jews in the region and the continued stream of terrorist attacks that Israel civilians have to endure in the same period. Israel has to maintain the blockade, it has effectively helped them and there’s no alternative to stopping the conflict without showing resolve to punish any form of terrorism. Only when the Palestinian arabs and all their helpers curb their action will Israel be able to do something about living conditions there.

  • g0027717

    Yikes. “Arabs” are not the same as “Muslims”, first of all. Secondly, different Arabs have different homelands. They are not actually interchangeable, even if they’re one half of your “us-versus-them” mentality. Your post shows a disrespect for the individuality of various Arabs and Muslims, a conflation of the two, and a conflation of all members of each.

  • Arlene Adamo

    “Netanyahu’s Justice Minister Pick Called For Genocide of Palestinians”
    (She specifically called for the killing of Palestinian mothers and referred to Palestinian children as “snakes”)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMeT3KX9oJA

  • Marja Erwin

    Why should anyone respect any of these power structures?

  • Marja Erwin

    And you think the land belonged to the rulers, and absentee landlords, not to the people living there?

  • I’m not sure it is possible to respect today’s governments in light of God’s commands. But where ever we live we have to obey the laws of the land; otherwise it would be anarchy.

    But people can repent and God will hear them and answer their prayers. I never thought I would see any type of “national repentance” in this country. But it just happened and it gives me hope however small.

  • Bones

    Rubbish!

  • Bones

    Lol……your country did not repent of anything. What an idiot.

  • Bones

    Nah….my friends live there.

    He”s the Anglican minister in Ramallah.

    We see through your lies.

  • Thela Ginjeet

    So. How is this different from Arab calls for Israeli genocide for the last seventy years? Ayelet Shaked’s comment was made in 2002 and she didn’t mean indiscriminate killing. She meant terrorists. That hasn’t stopped pro-Palestinian activists from deliberately mistranslating her Hebrew comments into English for use as propaganda.

  • Bones

    Nice try at propaganda….

    Haaretz knows Hebrew too.

    “In July, Shaked made international headlines when she took to Facebook to share an inflammatory article by the late right-wing journalist Uri Elitzur that called for the indiscriminate killing of Palestinians “including the mothers of the martyrs, who send them to hell with flowers and kisses” — and referred to Palestinian children as “little snakes.”
    read more: http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-1.656490

    Nice argument at supporting extremists btw.

  • Bones

    Wow, you believe in anti-semitic Jew conspiracies as well….

    No surprises there.

  • Bones

    Complete bs…..

  • Eric11210

    That has to be one of the all time dumbest comments I ever heard. Yes, it did belong to them. If I own an apartment building in New York City and I have someone managing it for me and collecting rent but I don’t live there and never see place personally, according to your ridiculously stupid logic, the building doesn’t belong to me anymore if I choose to sell it to someone else because after all, I’m an absentee landlord. Then again, stupid Jew hatred logic never does engage with actual logic.

  • jekylldoc

    I agree that ethnic cleansing is not the same as determination to exterminate. But it has a similar corrosive effect on the soul. I also agree that both sides are guilty, and that Arabs have been calling for genocide for many decades. I am no longer interested in the question of who is to blame, but I think it is a tragedy for both sides that Netanyahu has been abandoning Israel’s former willingness to make peace without ethnic cleansing.

  • jekylldoc

    Abe – the sooner that Palestinians recognize that the Nakba was also their fault, that they had engaged in conflict as well and that it was a response to a fight for their very lives by Israeli Jews, the sooner they can get on with their lives. I do not have any interest in justifying Israel, or trying to assign relative blame. I just think that resistance has long ago become slow-motion suicide, and Palestinians are being destroyed as much by “resistance” as by Israeli ethnic cleansing. As a famous man once said, you don’t make peace with your friends, you make peace with your enemies.

    Your arguments about justice and the justification for resistance may be 100 percent correct, but the world wants you to make peace, more for your own sake than for anyone else’s.

  • Thela Ginjeet

    Of course…Haaretz. The New York Times of Israel. Spin left gouge right.

    Elitzur’s remarks are no different than the detestable Arabic commentary against Jews spewed daily from any number of Arabic media sources throughout the Middle East then is it…Btw?

  • Marja Erwin

    So you think rejecting landlordism is “stupid Jew hatred logic”???

    Most great land-property claims come from force or fraud. Depending on the country, feudal power, or dispossession of the locals and colonial grants may predominate.

    Do you think everyone – from Thomas Paine, to Piotr Kropotkin, to Henry George, to Franz Oppenheimer who was an active Zionist – who has condemned absentee landlordism or called for reform has done so out of “Jew hatred”?

  • Thela Ginjeet

    It’s interesting that Dr. Corey uses the image of a dove in his blog masthead. One not holding an olive branch….But a hand grenade.

    So when I lobbed a grenade back at him argumentum a contrario over some of the premises of this article…My comments were manually marked as spam and deleted. Apparently, the good doctor doesn’t like to have his progressive positions seriously questioned.

  • Arlene Adamo

    Which Arabs? There are many different ethnic, national and religious groups who identify as Arab. And are you saying that this would justify calls for Palestinian genocide?

    Ayelet Shaked did delete her posting on Facebook that I referenced. If there were a wrong translation it could have been easily proven, and surely she would have left it there to be exonerated.

    Here’s an article regarding her long extremist history, (mainly for other readers because I know that you don’t like this paper and would refuse to believe it anyway) :

    http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-1.655941

    Are you an Israeli or just a right wing American conditioned to defend Israel no matter what they do?

  • Eric11210

    Once again, you are trying to pretend that rule of law doesn’t matter but you apply it selectively to the Jews only. You would never try to offer such a stupid argument about an apartment building in New York City owned by an absentee landlord.

  • IconoclastTwo

    “Abe – the sooner that Palestinians recognize that the Nakba was also their fault, that they had engaged in conflict as well and that it was a response to a fight for their very lives by Israeli Jews, the sooner they can get on with their lives.”

    Yes, the deep and sophisticated moral logic of “why are you hitting yourself?”

  • IconoclastTwo

    “The basic reason we should respect Israel is the same reason we respect any sovereign country including our own.”

    If any other nation did the sorts of things that Israel routinely does the United States wouldn’t be making $30 billion aid deals with it (like Obama did even after Netanyahu and his cabinet basically attacked him at every turn); they’d be embargoed at the very least.

  • Marja Erwin

    What???

  • My choice for criticism would be Iran not Israel.
    Iran is called the “chief sponsor of terror in the Middle East” by every commentator I hear because it is.

    Washington (CNN)The State Department on Thursday (6/16) released its annual report on global terrorist activity, listing Iran as the top state sponsor of terrorism and labeling ISIS “the greatest threat globally.”

    I notice Israel is not on this list. You would think that a country perpetrating genocide on Palestine would be?

  • Bones

    Lol the US is giving Israel $38 billion to blow Palestinians up over the next 10 years.

    As if they would list Israel.

    You people support Israel over your own country that’s how sick you are.

  • Bones

    Lol….we see your spin and propaganda.

    You’re nothing but a Zionist shrill who doesn’t give a rats about human rights.

  • Thela Ginjeet

    “…are you saying that this would justify calls for Palestinian genocide?”

    No.

    “Are you an Israeli or just a right wing American conditioned to defend Israel no matter what they do?”

    I am not defending Israel no matter what it does. I simply do not accept the premise that Israel in the course of defending itself is committing “genocide.” However, I do believe that the Arab world would relish nothing short of the destruction of the Jewish state. I’m merely taking them at their word which they have repeatedly stated in their broadcast and media outlets over the last seventy years. Every opportunity for peace and self-rule has been turned into an advantage by the Palestinians to come closer to realizing that violent dream. Twelve years after the Gaza disengagement the Israelis have learned a sobering lesson…They are not about to repeat that disaster in the West Bank while Palestinians clearly favor the genocidal ideology of groups like Hamas and the Muslim Brotherhood.

    The real campaign for slaughter has always rested with Israel’s enemies.

  • Thela Ginjeet

    Speak for yourself hypocrite.

  • Bones

    Really……nah that’s complete bs….Israel is working with its Sunni Arab Allies.

    The director general of Israel’s Foreign Ministry, Dore Gold in 2015

    “What we have is a regime (Iran) on a roll that is trying to conquer the Middle East, and it’s not Israel talking, that is our Sunni Arab neighbors — and you know what? I’ll use another expression – that is our Sunni Arab allies talking.”

    read more: http://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-news/1.668601

    You are aware that we have the disaster in Syria because the US was helping its Israeli allies.

    From the US State Department

    “The best way to help Israel deal with Iran’s growing nuclear capability is to help the people of
    Syria overthrow the regime of Bashar Assad.

    Negotiations to limit Iran’s nuclear program will not solve Israel’s security dilemma.”

    Back to Syria. It is the strategic relationship between Iran and the regime of Bashar Assad in
    Syria that makes it possible for Iran to undermine Israel’s security — not through a direct attack,
    which in the thirty years of hostility between Iran and Israel has never occurred, but through its
    proxies in Lebanon, like Hezbollah, that are sustained, armed and trained by Iran via Syria. The
    end of the Assad regime would end this dangerous alliance. Israel’s leadership understands well

    why defeating Assad is now in its interests. Speaking on CNN’s Amanpour show last week,
    Defense Minister Ehud Barak argued that “the toppling down of Assad will be a major blow to
    the radical axis, major blow to Iran…. It’s the only kind of outpost of the Iranian influence in the
    Arab world…and it will weaken dramatically both Hezbollah in Lebanon and Hamas and Islamic
    Jihad in Gaza.”

    Bringing down Assad would not only be a massive boon to Israel’s security, it would also ease
    Israel’s understandable fear of losing its nuclear monopoly. Then, Israel and the United States

    might be able to develop a common view of when the Iranian program is so dangerous that
    military action could be warranted. Right now, it is the combination of Iran’s strategic alliance
    with Syria and the steady progress in Iran’s nuclear enrichment program that has led Israeli
    leaders to contemplate a surprise attack — if necessary over the objections of Washington. With
    Assad gone, and Iran no longer able to threaten Israel through its, proxies, it is possible that the

    United States and Israel can agree on red lines for when Iran’s program has crossed an
    unacceptable threshold. In short, the White House can ease the tension that has developed with
    Israel over Iran by doing the right thing in Syria.

    The rebellion in Syria has now lasted more than a year. The opposition is not going away, nor is
    the regime going to accept a diplomatic solution from the outside. With his life and his family at
    risk, only the threat or use of force will change the Syrian dictator Bashar Assad’s mind.

    https://wikileaks.org/clinton-emails/emailid/18328

  • Bones

    Hey Bob, your mate Putin has built 2 of Iran’s nuclear reactors….they only have 6 more to make.

  • Bones

    Oh I’m speaking for the voiceless – those Palestinians you couldn’t give a rats about in your slavic devotion to Israel.

    You hate Jesus and the prophets don’t you?

  • Thela Ginjeet

    Now I’m laughing out loud.

  • Thela Ginjeet

    Pragmatically, Israel and the Sunni Arab states have the same enemies and that includes Hamas and Hezbollah. You know, “the enemy of my enemy is my friend.”

  • dala

    This really shouldn’t need to be said, but calling for or committing genocide is wrong no matter who does it. It’s telling that you’re arguing about a point that most of us can’t independently verify, rather than actually addressing the issue.

  • IconoclastTwo

    “My choice for criticism would be Iran not Israel.”

    Given what you’ve written before that’s hardly surprising.

    “Iran is called the “chief sponsor of terror in the Middle East” by every commentator I hear because it is.”

    Didn’t Hillary Clinton even concede in her emails that Saudi Arabia was one of the biggest funders of ISIS?

    “Washington (CNN)The State Department on Thursday (6/16) released its annual report on global terrorist activity, listing Iran as the top state sponsor of terrorism and labeling ISIS “the greatest threat globally.”

    I notice Israel is not on this list. You would think that a country perpetrating genocide on Palestine would be?”

    Not when the US government and its associates are making that determination. They’re hardly unbiased on the issue given that they’ve given Israel more or less whatever its government wanted for years and run interference for it no matter what atrocities they engaged in.

  • Bones

    Of course you are… you laugh at oppression of others….that’s the sort of human being you are.

  • dala

    What kind of idiot would think that violence is *always* wrong regardless of circumstances?

  • dala

    And here we have an example of someone who believes genocide in the name of God is just and good, but who would characterize dozens of other cultures who hold or once held the same belief as barbaric. The Nazis thought God was on their side, too.

  • Bones

    And how many Arab states are Sunni?

    Arab states considering alliance with Israel, say Arab officials

    Benjamin Netanyahu described the proposed initiative as a ‘great opportunity for peace’ in the Middle East

    The Trump administration is in discussions about the formation of a regional Arab security alliance with Israel as a counterbalance to Iran’s influence in the Middle East, according to Arab officials.

    The alliance would include Egypt and Jordan, both of whom recognise and have peace treaties with Israel, as well as Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates, neither of whom recognise Israel but are known to have covertly shared intelligence in the past.

    “They’ve been asking diplomatic missions in Washington if we’d be willing to join this force that has an Israeli component,” one Arab diplomat said, according to the Wall Street Journal.

    “Israel’s role would likely be intelligence sharing, not training or boots on the ground. They’d provide intelligence and targets. That’s what the Israelis are good at.”

    Speaking during a Wednesday joint news conference with the Israeli prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, Trump said the plan would potentially have an enormous impact on the balance of power in the Middle East, which is currently seeing a regional rivalry and proxy wars between Saudi Arabia and Iran.

    http://www.middleeasteye.net/news/arab-israel-regional-alliance-being-considered-officials-1852465439

    There blows your Arabs want to kill Israel propaganda.

    Once again the US is at the centre of a Middle East clusterf##k because of Israel.

  • Thela Ginjeet

    No. I’m laughing at you because you’re assigning motive in order to justify yourself. Hypocrite.

  • Thela Ginjeet

    “Once again the US is at the centre of a Middle East clusterf##k because of Israel”

    No. It’s still because most of Arab world continues to hate Israel and always has. Only now has the threat of Iranian hegemony become a concern that has supplanted the Palestinian problem…It hasn’t gone away by any means. I will concede that the US invasion of Iraq by Bush played right into Iran’s advantage.

  • Bones

    So we’ve narrowed most of the Arab world to Iran, Lebanon and Syria – the shiite states.

    And the clusterf##k in Syria was created to appease Israel and break the Iran/Assad/Hezbollah alliance.

  • Bones

    No, you’re laughing at those who oppose oppression.

    Because that’s the sort of human being you are.

  • jekylldoc

    Do you think the Palestinians have improved their lives with their resistance?

  • IconoclastTwo

    That’s not the point. The point is that so many people demand that they don’t resist while the people who are oppressing and killing them continue to do so-and this is wrong.

  • IconoclastTwo

    “Once again, you are trying to pretend that rule of law doesn’t matter but you apply it selectively to the Jews only.”

    The laws as made by who, exactly, and to what end?

  • Arlene Adamo

    There is no “Arab world” the way you imagine. There is no big alliance only a very complex situation. For instance, Saudi Arabia has worked very closely with Israel for many years, the Egyptian government is very obedient to them and the Arab Christians in Lebanon have been long term allies.

    The Muslim Brotherhood isn’t even in Israel and Hamas has a few guns against Israel’s state of the art tanks, bombers along with biological and nuclear weapons. Israel also has Palestine completely suppressed by economic warfare as well as stealing their water and agricultural land.

    The narrative that Israel is an underdog under constant attack is the one that Israel has always pushed. This is a lecture by Miko Peled, the grandson of General Katznelson, one of Israel’s founders. He is an Israeli and an insider with some very interesting things to say:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOaxAckFCuQ

  • Thela Ginjeet

    Yes. A complex situation. I understand that. So noted.

  • jekylldoc

    I’m not demanding anything. I am trying to figure out why a people is so determined to continue the ruin of their own lives. In what world is life not the point?

  • Marja Erwin

    And Iran isn’t Arab.

  • SamHamilton

    Ask a pacifist.

  • Eric11210

    And once again, do you or do you not believe in the law of private property? If you do then you have nothing to say. If you don’t then your firmly believe that all of the United States and most of the rest of the world for that matter is occupied territory. Heck, the USA has more claim to be occupied territory than Israel does because the European settlers simply took the land. At least in Israel it was legally ceded by the sovereign nation that held it last. The jew hatred here is thick and leads to stupid comments like the one above.

  • Eric11210

    Do you consider the USA and Canada to be ‘occupied territory?’ No? Why not hypocrite?

  • Thela Ginjeet

    I listened to Mr. Peled’s presentation that you kindly provided the link for and found many of his assertions false. About the only true thing he said was what he was going to talk about was not going to be balanced.

    For example. Archaeological evidence for King David has been found. Scholars are dealing with a period of history 3000 years old. They are not sure some sites have been accurately identified and only a small fraction of the surface area of many sites have been systematically excavated. Erosion and the ravages of time do not permit easy preservation of the material record. However, absence of evidence is an argument from silence and not a compelling one to justify completely throwing out the Biblical texts that refer to him. See:

    http://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/daily/biblical-artifacts/artifacts-and-the-bible/the-tel-dan-inscription-the-first-historical-evidence-of-the-king-david-bible-story/

    A second claim that Modern Jews are not descendants of Middle Eastern origin has also been shown to be false. See:

    http://scopeblog.stanford.edu/2013/12/20/new-genetic-study-more-evidence-for-modern-ashkenazi-jews-ancient-hebrew-patrimony/

    And many of his claims about the war in 1948 are easily disproved by archived newspaper accounts of the time.

    My original post to this article was a direct refutation of many Mr. Peled’s claims as well as those of the author’s but it was removed as spam and censored. No doubt for being the myth that Mr. Peled’s Palestinian historical revisionism really is.

  • S.Philips

    Your name David? Sure?

  • S.Philips

    Abraham had two sons. Both should get some what fare share…right? Why should one son grab so much and not only that he want even the tiny portion other got…Very unfair…

  • S.Philips

    Dala, you need to study history of israel and jews before giving your comments!!

  • S.Philips

    Dear Abe,
    Jesus’ Father is God of Israel…He is absolute justice..He is not like we human beings…we judge based on limited knowledge..over limited period of time…..When Jehovah God acts, He will have His promise to Abraham and all other promises and prophecies He gave thru all His prophets..and also how israel and its neighbours behaved in past thousands of years.

    Jesus cannot go against his Father…Jesus always do his Father’s will.

  • Bones

    Mythical stories are no basis for modern secular democracies.

  • Bones

    Israel is not God.

    Israel is supposed to be a modern secular democracy.

    What we have here is what amounts to a caliphate with nutbag Christian support.

  • Bones

    You mean like when Jesus and the prophets attacked Israel for its endemic injustice.

    Yeah, we know that history.

    We know which side you’re on and it sure as hell isn’t Jesus nor the prophets.

  • Bones

    God never promised anyone any land ever.

    Nations are artificial human constructs.

  • Bones

    Shoosh……you’re confusing the children….

  • S.Philips

    Mr.Bones,
    “Mythical stories are no basis for modern secular democracies.”
    I fully agree with it. It should not be….
    However I wish to tell you. Jews are not a myth…prophecies about them are not myth…My earest request to you: please read following few pages.
    1. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy+28&version=NKJV

    2.
    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy+30&version=NKJV

    3.
    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=ezekiel+36+-+39&version=NKJV

    After reading these, surf for jewish persecution too.

    Then, only after reading all above, kindly give your comments.

  • Bones

    The story of Abraham is a myth…….and the whole torah was compiled post-exile not thousands of years ago as you claimed.

    I’m sure other cultures have mythical promises of land yet they mean diddly squat……

    Like the Australian Aborigine or Native American.

    Btw Jewish persecution does not give them the right to persecute others but they thank you for your support as they persecute Palestinian Christians.

    Stop hiding behind it and justifying it.

    Jesus and the prophets are ashamed of people like you.

  • Arlene Adamo

    This is Israel. There is no justification for this evil.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvjAE4KV32Q

  • S.Philips

    Part 1 to part 3- pl read all 3 parts to underestand this message correctly.

    Dear Abe, God of Israel is the One true God, the Creator of universe. He is not respecter of any special people either jews or arabs. He stand with what He spoke thru his prophets.
    You wrote ” God would return them to the land when it is time, without fighting or the use of force.”
    However I wish to draw your attention to what God said in Ezekiel 39:21-29
    “I will display my glory among the nations, and all the nations will see the punishment I inflict and the hand I lay on them. 22 From that day forward the people of Israel will know that I am the Lord their God. 23 And the nations will know that the people of Israel went into exile for their sin, because they were unfaithful to me. So I hid my face from them and handed them over to their enemies, and they all fell by the sword. 24 I dealt with them according to their uncleanness and their offenses, and I hid my face from them. 25 “Therefore this is what the Sovereign Lord says: I will now restore the fortunes of Jacob and will have compassion on all the people of Israel, and I will be zealous for my holy name. 26 They will forget their shame and all the unfaithfulness they showed toward me when they lived in safety in their land with no one to make them afraid. 27 When I have brought them back from the nations and have gathered them from the countries of their enemies, I will be proved holy through them in the sight of many nations. 28 Then they will know that I am the Lord their God, for though I sent them into exile among the nations, I will gather them to their own land, not leaving any behind. 29 I will no longer hide my face from them, for I will pour out my Spirit on the people of Israel, declares the Sovereign Lord.”
    To understand the subject you need to read Ezekiel chapters 36 to 39. It is about restoration of Israel from nations of the world and thereafter a future war.( foretold around BC 550 thru prophet Ezekiel). Continued i part 2 below.

  • S.Philips

    Part 2

    As per that, Turkey along with Iran, Libya etc (probably with help of Russia) come against Israel in the end times. (Clearly after restoration Jews from nations of the world.) That is a post 1948 scenario not fulfilled yet, but all the parties mentioned in bible aligning as a single block, in current times, right before our eyes.
    Ancient names-Gog, Magog, Thogarma, Meshek and Tubal. (Present day turkey along with portions of Russia, Greece etc)
    Persia- Present day Iran
    Cush – Sudan, Somalia etc
    Put – Present day Libya
    Ezekiel 38:8
    After many days you will be called to arms. In future years you will invade a land that has recovered from war, whose people were gathered from many nations to the mountains of Israel, which had long been desolate. They had been brought out from the nations, and now all of them live in safety. 9 You and all your troops and the many nations with you will go up, advancing like a storm; you will be like a cloud covering the land.
    Abe, I suggest you read these chapters yourself to understand terrible fate God foretold so long ago, to the invading army…After total defeat of Israel’s enemies God Himself is saying above, first quoted verses in chapter 39.

    Continued in Part-3,below.

  • S.Philips

    Part 3
    So it is not what you wrote going to happen ” God would return them to the land when it is time, without fighting or the use of force.”
    I would urge you to read above bible chapters thoroughly and also following web sites, and only then give your comments or reply.
    War part 1-
    https://flashtrafficblog.wordpress.com/2015/10/08/with-russian-iranian-forces-now-engaged-in-combat-in-syria-people-are-asking-what-is-the-war-of-gog-magog-heres-the-answer-part-one/
    War part 2-
    https://flashtrafficblog.wordpress.com/2015/10/11/israel-makes-massive-discovery-of-oil-in-the-golan-heights-is-this-a-prelude-to-the-war-of-gog-magog-heres-the-answer-part-two/
    War part 3-
    https://flashtrafficblog.wordpress.com/2015/10/12/will-the-biblical-war-of-gog-magog-bring-about-the-end-of-radical-islam-as-we-have-known-it-heres-the-answer-part-three/

    I earnestly feel christians must stand with Creator God. It may or may not be with Israel, that hardly matters.

  • S.Philips

    My dear Muslim brother Bones,
    I requested you to read the following and then respond.

    1. https://www.biblegateway.co

    2.
    https://www.biblegateway.co

    3.
    https://www.biblegateway.co

    But you did not. This religious fight by Palestinians against Israel supported by individual muslims like Boneswill take the world to great war

  • g0027717

    S. Philips — We disagree, but I do see your point. Thanks for reading and responding. I’ll also check the links you posted above/below.

  • S.Philips

    https://www.gotquestions.org/Israel-land.html

    Question: “What is the land that God promised to Israel?”

    Answer: In regards to the land that God has promised Israel, Genesis 15:18 declares to Abraham, “To your descendants I give this land, from the river of Egypt to the great river, the Euphrates.” God later confirms this promise to Abraham’s son Isaac and Isaac’s son Jacob (whose name was later changed to Israel). When the Israelites were about to invade the Promised Land, God reiterated the land promise, as recorded in Joshua 1:4, “Your territory will extend from the desert to Lebanon, and from the great river, the Euphrates—all the Hittite country—to the Great Sea on the west.”

    According to Genesis 15:18 and Joshua 1:4, the land God gave to Israel included everything from the Nile River in Egypt to Lebanon (south to north) and everything from the Mediterranean Sea to the Euphrates River (west to east). So, what land has God stated belongs to Israel? All of the land modern Israel currently possesses, plus all of the land of the Palestinians (the West Bank and Gaza), plus some of Egypt and Syria, plus all of Jordan, plus some of Saudi Arabia and Iraq. Israel currently possesses only a fraction of the land God has promised.

  • Thela Ginjeet

    I agree. It’s evil, but it isn’t genocide.

  • Adrian S

    It is not about assigning guilt here, but about shutting down this weird pointing of fingers with an extremely serious accusation (genocide) when the facts don’t back it up. There are problems, both sides are in the wrong and a viable solution can’t start with an easing of security measures, but with a ceasing of all violent acts. The Israeli can’t be denied the right to defend themselves.

  • jekylldoc

    Adrian – Like most Americans, I consider the Israeli right to defend themselves to be bottom line. No question about it, not as a matter of right, but as a matter of survival. The next question is, what does that require?

    Interestingly, a majority of the Israelis who were present in 1967 consider a two-state solution to be the most secure option. Newer arrivals have a rather mythical view of the matter, and therefore follow the lead of those who say they need the West Bank (cleared of Palestinians, is the unstated implication) to be secure.

    The last time both peoples were willing to make peace, it made a lot of progress, and extremists on both sides stepped in to destroy the agreement. Both sides need to grasp the implication and take the process out of the hands of extremists. Unfortunately that seems to include Likud, under its current leadership.

  • jekylldoc

    There is almost no overlap between Christians who accuse the Jews of killing Christ and Christians who criticize Israeli behavior on human rights grounds. The two sets of criteria are nearly incompatible.

  • David

    And you point exactly is what?

  • Marja Erwin

    Not quite, and not the issue.

    We were talking about *property*, weren’t we?

    Just about everywhere, the ruling classes have granted property to themselves, and to their allies: old royal grants here in the east, railroad grants in parts of the west, special privileges for pipelines, and copymight and (re-)patent grants. Was the Ottoman ruling class any different, and were their claims any better? It’s an open question how to sort through this problem. It’ll probably take a combination of redistribution and reparations where that is impossible.

    I understand that in some cases new settlers bought land from Palestinian villagers which actually lived on and worked the land, which was far better than buying it from Ottoman landlords and then displacing villagers. Of course the current Palestinian regime forbids this.

    As for citizenship…

    Here we have a plutocratic oligarchy. The election results depend on the electoral college, unequal apportionment in the senate, gerrymandering in the house, and first-past-the-post. Something like 11 million more Americans voted against Trump than for him, and 3 million more voted against Trump than against Clinton, yet here we are.

    Here the legal system involves annexation and birthright citizenship, although there’s a lot of racism, sexism, ableism, etc., there still haven’t been reparations, and there still are legal precedent approving forced sterilization. That’s somewhat different from perpetual occupation and lack of citizenship.

  • dala

    Please, tell me more how you think history justifies genocide in the present.

  • A fish with no hands

    Of course one can accuse Israel of genocide! As an ethical non-theist, it strikes me as wrong-headed to hold nations and people to different standards based on culture, mythology, or history.

  • S.Philips

    we see lot of fake or cooked up stories….very difficult to trust even so called reputed news media.

  • S.Philips

    1.You falsely accused me of supporting or justifying genocide.
    2. Where is the so called genocide taking place? In
    Palestine?
    3. Muslim Turkey killed more than 2 million Christians. Even that is not called a genocide…
    4.In Israel misguided Palestinian youths stab or bomb Jews..and Israel react in self defense…You call it genocide?

  • Bones

    Haven’t you heard of the Armenian Genocide?

    Or of the Israel occupation of the West Bank?

    Here’s a fact – every population hates occupation by a hostile force…..

    The Jews did the same when they were ruled by the Brits.

  • Bones

    Wow, you had to post that nonsense in 3 parts……

    You have a choice to stand with God or oppression….

    You’ve made your choice…….and it wasn’t God.

  • Bones

    Dude….that isn’t evidence of anything.

    It never happened.

    Honestly you think quoting Bible verses proves anything – it doesn’t.

    It wasn’t historical – neither did Abraham have a personal biographer thousands of years BCE.

    The accounts were written and compiled in the Post Exile.

    Heck the Jews in Egyptian Elephantine even built their own temple.

  • Bones

    I’m not Muslim….it is however noted that you support the oppression of Palestinian Christians in the name of Nationalism and ideology.

    You’ve never met a Palestinian Christian, have you?

  • S.Philips

    Reply to Bones

    OK Bones, now I go by your logic, that Bible accounts were written and compiled in the Post Exile period. And bible is worthless account which never happened.
    I suggest you to read just few passages from this “worthless book” and compare with world history…How prophecies about Israel written in such a ‘worthless book’ can happen throughout world history for 1000s of years. Even today! (You need to study a bit of world history, particularly Jewish history and compare it with bible prophecies below.)
    Deuteronomy28
    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy28&version=NIV

    Deuteronomy 30
    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy30&version=NIV

    Ezekiel 35-39
    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=ezekiel+35-39&version=NIV

    I am sure if Muslim leaders and our Muslim brethren read these God’s own Word with a submissive heart to Creator of Universe, it would be much easier to resolve Palestinian problem for once and for all.

  • Bones

    By your logic, people justify violence and oppression on fictional events that happened 4000 years ago.

    Meanwhile in the real world…..

    Palestinian Christians message to Christians united under Israel

    http://www.dailytargum.com/article/2015/04/palestinian-christians-message-to-christians-united-under-israel

    THE PLIGHT OF PALESTINIAN CHRISTIANS

    http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Op-Ed-Contributors/The-plight-of-Palestinian-Christians

    The Palestinian Christian : Betrayed, Persecuted, Sacrificed

    http://www.religion-online.org/showarticle.asp?title=3363

    That last one ironically describes you who betrays Christians, supports their persecution and sacrifices them in your slavic devotion of a Nationalist state.

    I get it that you hate Muslims.

    Not sure why that justifies your hatred of Palestinian Christians.

    It must be a racial issue for you.

    The Creator God of the Universe has nothing to do with such an idiot as you, no matter how many Bible verses you parrot.

  • S.Philips

    I stand with God of Israel, Jehovah God, the creator of Universe and His Son Yesuah Ha Messiah, Savior of humanity. Throughout history Jehovah God proved His Word as reliable and true. He is absolute justice. He is not respecter of jews or arabs. He inflicted severe punishment on jewish nation whenever they went astray from just path of Holy One. He is same yesterday, today and forever.
    So if Israel commits atrocities to Palestinians or anyone else they will have to pay heavy price! Remember, His judgement is not like our judgment. We have very little knowledge and very short memory and based on that, we may blame either jews or arabs.
    Whereas Jehovah God will keep in His mind entire 4000 yrs of history of Israel and all his promises to Abraham when he was in Ur, that ancient city of Iraq. He will remember His promise to that childless man and his journey to Land of Cannan, trusting on His Word. He will remember all his words to Isaac, Jacob and so many biblical prophets.
    When God acts with such immense and perfect knowledge, we human beings even may not be able to understand it.

  • Arlene Adamo

    If you start a sentence with “I agree. It’s evil but…”, it’s time to worry about the future of your soul.

    State sanctioned brutalization of children by the military is one of the many, many signs that genocide is in their minds.

  • jekylldoc

    Adrian – The finger-pointing here, and the BDS movement, are not about how wrong Israel is (or isn’t), but about how Likud is undermining a two-state solution with removal of the Palestinians as its goal. It is about the future, that is, not the past. When a viable, and not too unjust, path to peace is de-legitimized within Israel and Americans still imagine Israel wants a peaceful solution, those alternative facts need to be addressed.

    I agree that Israel has a right to defend itself. I believe Palestinians are torturing themselves with the resistance, and even if they weren’t, outside radicals would come in and do it for them. There is no substitute for peace, but it needs to have a chance. The problem with stipulating the ceasing of violent acts is that Israel does not permit a sufficiently strong government to impose order on the territories, so this demand for ceasing violent acts becomes an excuse to continue making Palestinian life unlivable. It is becoming clearer with each new incident that Likud wants more acts of violence so it can avoid the questions involved in a peace settlement.

  • David

    Ah, I see. I do understand your point. There are a lot of cooked up stories. As an example I believed a lot of what I’d heard about Israel and Palestine until I actually went there, met the people and experienced it first hand. The I realized much of what I’d read was nonsense. So I do get it.

  • Adrian S

    We both agree that the 2 sides in the conflict need to move forward. We both agree that Israel is damaging its own position through actions that exacerbate the problem. But I don’t see how a Palestinian authority would do any better than none. We’ve been in that situation and it hasn’t work out any better. Israeli forces are the only ones that can restore security in the region and their authorities (with involvement from their Arab citizen) need to be in charge of restoring services in the occupied territories. There can be no other shortcut/workaround.

  • Thela Ginjeet

    When you can show evidence of something like the Rwandan genocide, or the Bosnian, or the Armenian, or the Holocaust…And not something you think is in somebody’s mind, let alone state sanctioned, then your arguments will carry moral weight. But as it is, I congratulate you on totally trivializing real genocide by redefining it so you can push a lie.

  • George Polley

    It is very clear that the Zionist vision was to remove its Palestinian population and replace it wit Jews, as Israel was seen as a Jewish nation. An excellent resource is Israeli historian Ilan Pappe’s “The The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine”. It is not a pleasant read at all. What Israel has done is create a nation that mirror’s Hitler’s Nazi Germany, and that is both sad and ironic, given the persecution that Jews have had to endure for so long, including the Holocaust.

  • Arlene Adamo

    You are a paid troll, aren’t you? That’s very sad.

  • Thela Ginjeet

    So, lacking any rational and demonstrative rebuttal, you default to the ad hominem insult.

    You hold a set of partisan presuppositions about Israel based at best on half-truths and lies at worst right out of the Palestinian National Charter. Anyone with a modicum of high school research skills can survey the primary British, American, and UN source documents online and begin to see that the revisionist pro-Palestinian narrative doesn’t hold up to actual facts. I’m sorry that disturbs your safe space.

  • Thela Ginjeet

    I hate to put a pebble in your shoe, but Pappe’s work has some serious problems.

    Benny Morris, a preeminent Israeli historian in his own right, criticized Pappe for his poor methodology in general and in particular his irresponsible interpretation of specific events such as a sole existing reference to a project codenamed “shimshon,” a diary entry by David Ben-Gurion that Pappe’s work leaves the false impression that just three years after the Jews were being gassed in Germany, Jews were gassing Arabs.

    https://newrepublic.com/article/85344/ilan-pappe-sloppy-dishonest-historian

  • George Polley

    Well, that is Benny Morris;s opinion, Thela. Ginjeet, but it is not mine. Read your history, and you’ll see that the Zionists were killing Arabs, but not “gassing” them as you imply.

  • Bones

    Nah you stand against God and support oppression of Christians.

    All your religious mumbo jumbo doesn’t mask that.

  • jekylldoc

    Adrian, Not only am I glad to see the discussion shift to the ground of how to escape this trap, but I think your ideas are sound on the question. I would question one point: is the Palestinian authority better than none? I can see how experience leads to negative conclusions. And there are forces at work which made confidence difficult. Still, I would answer that they were new to the task in the initial period of governance, and an organization which survived by subterfuge and by currying favor with dictators was probably not really equipped for political leadership. I am not sure whether they have made progress, but they at least have experience now.

    If I remember right, at the time of the Rabin assassination the discussion focused on a long transition period (50 years!) of Israeli security forces in the West Bank, envisioning a transfer to the Palestinian Authority (or whichever government was elected) at the end of a period of stability and order. I don’t see how Israel could have trust in any other solution to the security problem, even though that solution is humiliating and very problematic for Palestinians.

    30 years ago the key to leveraging land for peace was thought to be American money. I don’t think anyone believes in that anymore, but I would propose that Israeli good will would create a powerful dynamic for peaceful development, if a peace agreement was actually signed. Instead, the dynamics of internal politics are pushing both sides away from recognizing the humanity of the other side. This cannot be good.

  • S.Philips

    You, europeans directly responsible for that. You kept on killing jews. Did europeans ever felt any remorse for that. Even today europe want to destroy jews!

    Cruel acts harden other people’s heart. At least apologize to jews..Sure, that will make them more humane!!

  • Bones

    The holocaust of the Jews and the Israeli oppression of Palestinians are totally unrelated.

    Israel has in fact adopted the nazi concept of lebensraum.

    There is no heart so hard as one that is filled with nationalism, religion and ideology.

    That heart will kill and destroy and show no compassion on its victims.

    Europe has shown us that.

    So has Israel.

    And so have you.

  • Bones

    Archaeology has shown that Ancient Israel was just another Canaanite tribe.

  • Bones

    What’s ironic is that I’ve destroyed your arguments and revealed you as just another Zionist propagandist.

    But hey I know Palestinian Christians so I can see through your bs.

  • Bones

    Never lived under hostile occupation have you?

    Think Northern Ireland, South Africa, Europe under fascism and communism, Asia under Imperial Japan, Jews under British rule…….

    Just suck it up……things’ll get better if you lie down and roll over and then the victors will treat you well..

  • Bones

    Like MLK…..

  • Arlene Adamo
  • jekylldoc

    Are you saying the two-state solution cannot work? I am not advocating rolling over and accepting just anything, I am suggesting that Palestinians make peace, and while that is happening, recognize that Israeli action is not aimed at making Palestinian lives miserable (although I think that is starting to be part of the logic on the West Bank) but at increasing Jewish security.

    The problem is that the goal of settlement of “Judea and Samaria” has gone from an extremist violation to unspoken policy of the Israeli government. The only solution is also the path wisdom would have dictated long ago: make peace. Get the matter resolved. Stop fighting.

  • Thela Ginjeet

    Ask yourself…Would the Israeli government pay a Jewish college student to post in the comment section of an obscure, insular religious blog that nobody else reads….where only the intellectually dishonest gather to virtue signal each other their anti-Israel self-righteous groupthink? It would be a supreme waste of money. Please!

    You can’t refute my rebuttals so you throw more poison into the well. Truth is hate to those who hate truth. I’m done.

  • Thela Ginjeet

    “Archaeology has shown that Ancient Israel was just another Canaanite tribe.”

    Prove it. That’s a theory based on an interpretion of the available material record and not even a good one. Early on the ancient Israelites were distinguishing themselves from the surrounding culture. For example no pig remains have been found in their Hill country settlements. That’s not the case anywhere else. At Hazor, the burned temple was full of smashed Egyptian and Canaanite idols…An incongruous act by just another Canaanite tribe.

    You statement with its air of haughty superiority is full of Sh-t!

  • Thela Ginjeet

    Right back at ya…Friend.

  • George Polley

    “You Europeans”, S. Philips? I’ve never wanted to “kill Jews”, as you say accusing all of “us” and, in doing so, ignore the agains Palestinian Arabs that the Jewish Zionists poured out against them, and still do. Bones says in his reply, “the holocaust of the Jews and the Israeli oppression of Palestinians are totally unrelated.”

  • George Polley

    Beautifully said, Bones, and thank you for saying it.

  • George Polley

    Ah, so I “lack any rational and demonstrative rebuttal”, do I? That’s a perfect answer coming from every hasbara troll I’ve encountered in the past 9+ years, and it makes me smile. Sorry, Thela Ginjeet, but you bore me. Have fun with someone else, as this is the last I have to say to you.

  • S.Philips

    Sorry George,never meant that way. Individuals like you should ever be blamed.
    At the same time, large number of European governments definitely responsible….Also all those kept silent, including individuals someway or other responsible.

    Even today Europe is same. Look at EU behavior.

  • S.Philips

    To Bones and George,
    “There is no heart so hard as one that is filled with nationalism, religion and ideology.
    That heart will kill and destroy and show no compassion on its victims.”

    And Islam did it last 1400 yrs…Continuing unabated till today. And islam is the prime cause behind the every day drama unfolding not only in in Palestine but extended across the globe..Already approximately 270 million non believers killed….How many more…..God only knows!

  • George Polley

    Thank you S. Philips. Large number of European governments were definitely responsible, as they are in Europe and the USA today. Re apologizing to Jews making them more humane, that seems to depend on where their loyalties are: with Israel or with all humanity. In some ways, my country (the USA) is as bad as Israel has been and is when it comes to how we treat others. Were I Jewish, I would be outraged, as my Rabbi friend Grant Rosen is. No one deserves to be treated badly is a key point to me.

  • Bones

    You haven’t destroyed anything apart from your own credibility.

  • Bones

    Israel Finkelstein is the Jacob M. Alkow Professor of the Archaeology of Israel in the Bronze and Iron Ages at Tel Aviv University Finkelstein is widely regarded as a leading scholar in the archaeology of the Levant and a foremost applicant of archaeological data in reconstructing biblical history. He is also known for applying the exact and life sciences in archaeological and historical reconstruction. Finkelstein is the excavator of Megiddo – a key site for the study of the Bronze and Iron Ages in the Levant.

    He states

    “Archaeology has shown that early Israel indeed emerged from the local population of late Bronze Canaan.”

    In addition, he said, archaeology has turned up no physical remains to support the Bible’s story of the Exodus: “There is no evidence for the wanderings of the Israelites in the Sinai desert.”

    “When Did the Jewish People Begin?” Israel Finkelstein

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TtPkK0PMFE

    Israel Finkelstein, Professor of Archaeology at Tel Aviv University and co-author of “The Bible Unearthed: Archaeology’s New Vision of Ancient Israel and the Origin of Its Sacred Texts,” discusses the archaeological evidence (or lack thereof) regarding the historical origins of the Jewish people.

    No surprise that you’re full of sh!t.

  • S.Philips

    Priest to UN: Israel is ‘Only Safe Place’ for Christians in Middle East

    http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/lauretta-brown/priest-un-israel-only-safe-place-christians-middle-east

  • S.Philips

    Fr. Naddaf heads the Greek Orthodox Church in Yafia near Nazareth

    “Christians and Jews live in Israel not only because Christ was originally Jewish, born in Jewish Bethlehem, but because they share a common destiny, and a true hope to coexist in peace,” Naddaf explained.

    “Does the world acknowledge Israel for protecting its Christians? Many in the international community have chosen to criticize Israel,” he complained.

    Naddaf called this criticism of Israel “a double crime” because by their criticism, “the international community helps those striving to annihilate the Jews, the Christians, the Druze and the Yazidis for political ends” which, he added, “unfortunately contributes to exacerbating the humanitarian crisis in the Middle East.”

    Persecution of Israel “causes Christians to leave the land of Christ searching for a safe haven across the world,” Naddaf pointed out.

    “O world leaders and supporters of peace, stop those who want to destroy the only free Jewish state in the region,” the Arab priest pleaded with members of the U.N.

    “It is the only refuge welcoming and protecting all of its citizens. It is the only place that does not attempt to push out Christians, forcing them to leave their land in search of security,” he said. “I implore you from the bottom of my heart to hear the cry of the Christians of the Middle East before it is too late, and you may read about them only in the history books.”

  • S.Philips
  • Thela Ginjeet

    “There is no evidence for the wanderings of the Israelites in the Sinai desert.”

    True, but is absence of evidence proof it did not happen? Hardly. It’s an argument from silence that minimalist scholars like Finkelstein often use tendentiously. What major excavation in the Sinai is Finkelstein basing this assertion? There hasn’t been one and uncovering objects from 3200 years ago is an exceedingly difficult endeavor in a sea of shifting sand and rock with little surface references. As I alluded to in my previous post, only a handful of archaeological sites in the southern Levant have actually been thoroughly examined.

    I’m aware of his endogenous “cyclic model” of the early Israelites. I am not persuaded. Incontrovertibly, Finkelstein is a minimal revisionist whose extreme skepticism has completely thrown out any value the Biblical texts may have in illuminating Israel’s ancient history. His theoretical models are highly speculative reconstructions. They are, again, interpretations of archaeological findings and not at all obvious, or consistent with his own statements, and in some cases, even coherent with known facts. His belief that the relevant Biblical texts are late, theologically biased, and have been archaeologically “disproved” has hardly been demonstrated, let alone been shown to invalidate the text’s capacity to convey historical information. It’s also a double standard which he applies to the Hebrew Bible but not to other ancient narratives. For example he has no problem with separating the various historical strands of the extant histories of Egypt or Mesopotamia. His only aversion seems to be to the Biblical narratives.

    The belief that archaeology alone can put us in possession of all the necessary and available facts is foolish. Material evidence can tell a very generalized social or natural history, but it is not at all well suited to tell human stories, and it is badly incomplete, but that hasn’t stopped Finkelstein from building his archaeological assemblages to tell his own grand imaginative fictions.

    The sad fact is that people like you, are not really interested in a constructive and comparable look at the nuances and balances of what archaeology can actually tell us in addition to other sources. You have merely hijacked the issue to push your anti-Israel, anti-Jewish political agenda in favor of a Palestinian falsehood, and you couldn’t care less about it otherwise.

  • Bones

    Oh yeah – now Finkelstein isn’t a real Jew or Israelite or is an anti-semite or some sh!t.

    I’d say he knows more than propagandists like you.

    Not only is there ‘no proof’ of an Exodus there is contradictory evidence of the following battles afterwards.

    Btw the Egyptians had a garrison in Canaan as well.

    Those are archaeological facts.

    It’s sad that people like you try to use mythological legends in support of your racist nationalist cause.

    Finkelstein and his book the Bible Unearthed

    Ancestors and anachronisms[edit]

    Egypt in the 15th century BC, the time of the Exodus and the conquest of Canaan as described in the Book of Joshua according to the Biblical chronology. As the map indicates, Canaan was occupied by Egypt at that time, a fact which the Bible fails to register.
    The Bible Unearthed begins by considering what it terms the ‘preamble’ of the Bible—the Book of Genesis—and its relationship to archaeological evidence for the context in which its narratives are set. Archaeological discoveries about society and culture in the ancient Near East lead the authors to point out a number of anachronisms, suggestive that the narratives were actually set down in the 9th–7th centuries:[7]

    Aramaeans are frequently mentioned, but no ancient text mentions them until around 1100 BCE, and they only begin to dominate Israel’s northern borders after the 9th century BCE.[8]
    The text describes the early origin of the neighbouring kingdom of Edom, but Assyrian records show that Edom only came into existence after the conquest of the region by Assyria; before then it was without functioning kings, was not a distinct state, and archaeological evidence shows that the territory was only sparsely populated.[9]
    The Joseph story refers to camel-based traders carrying gum, balm, and myrrh, which is unlikely prior to the first millennium, such activity only becoming common in the 8th–7th centuries BCE, when Assyrian hegemony enabled this Arabian trade to flourish into a major industry.[10] Recent excavations in the Timna Valley discovered what may be the earliest bones of domesticated camels found in Israel or even outside the Arabian peninsula, dating to around 930 BCE. This is seen as evidence that the stories of Abraham, Joseph, Jacob and Esau were written after this time.[11][12]
    The land of Goshen has a name that comes from an Arabic group who dominated the Nile Delta only in the 6th and 5th centuries.[13]
    The Egyptian Pharaoh is portrayed as fearing invasion from the east, even though Egypt’s territory stretched to the northern parts of Canaan, with its main threat consequently being from the north, until the 7th century[14]
    The book comments that this corresponds with the documentary hypothesis, in which textual scholarship argues for the majority of the first five biblical books being written between the 8th and 6th centuries.[15][citation needed] Although archaeological results, and Assyrian records, suggest that the Kingdom of Israel was the greater of the two, it is the Kingdom of Judah which is afforded greater prominence by Genesis, whose narratives concentrate on Abraham, Jerusalem, Judah (the patriarch), and Hebron, more than on characters and places from the northern kingdom (Israel); the Bible Unearthed explains this pre-eminence of Yahwist text as an attempt to seize the opportunity, afforded by the destruction of Israel in 720 BCE, to portray the Israelites as a single people, with Judah having (always) had primacy.[16]

    Origin of the Israelites
    The book remarks that, despite modern archaeological investigations and the meticulous ancient Egyptian records from the period of Ramesses II, there is an obvious lack of any archaeological evidence for the migration of a band of semitic people across the Sinai Peninsula,[17] except for the Hyksos. Although the Hyksos are in some ways a good match, their main centre being at Avaris (later renamed ‘Pi-Ramesses’), in the heart of the region corresponding to the ‘land of Goshen’, and Manetho later writing that the Hyksos eventually founded the Temple in Jerusalem,[18] it throws up other problems, as the Hyksos became not slaves but rulers, and they were chased away rather than chased to bring them back.[18] Nevertheless, the book posits that the exodus narrative perhaps evolved from vague memories of the Hyksos expulsion, spun to encourage resistance to the 7th century domination of Judah by Egypt.[19]

    Finkelstein and Silberman argue that instead of the Israelites conquering Canaan after the Exodus (as suggested by the book of Joshua), most of them had in fact always been there; the Israelites were simply Canaanites who developed into a distinct culture.[20] Recent surveys of long-term settlement patterns in the Israelite heartlands show no sign of violent invasion or even peaceful infiltration, but rather a sudden demographic transformation about 1200 BCE in which villages appear in the previously unpopulated highlands;[21] these settlements have a similar appearance to modern Bedouin camps, suggesting that the inhabitants were once pastoral nomads, driven to take up farming by the Late Bronze Age collapse of the Canaanite city-culture.[22]

    The authors take issue with the book of Joshua’s depiction of the Israelites conquering Canaan in only a few years—far less than the lifetime of one individual—in which cities such as Hazor, Ai, and Jericho, are destroyed. Finkelstein and Silberman view this account as the result of the telescoping effect of the vagaries of folk memory about destruction caused by other events;[23] modern archaeological examination of these cities shows that their destruction spanned a period of many centuries, with Hazor being destroyed 100 to 300 years after Jericho,[24] while Ai (whose name actually means ‘the ruin’) was completely abandoned for roughly a millennium “before the collapse of Late Bronze Canaan. … Like Jericho, there was no settlement at the time of its supposed conquest by the children of Israel.”

    The Bible Unearthed

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5RfScpEcZ8

  • IconoclastTwo

    “Are you saying the two-state solution cannot work?”

    In the past it could’ve if Israel had given back the Gaza Strip and West Bank. As things currently stand, no, this can’t work because a ‘two state solution’ that involves the Palestinians having a geographically discontinuous state with borders and access controlled by a hostile power and even within half of it, basically less than even half of _that_ isn’t an independent state; it’s a reservation or a bantustan.

    “I am not advocating rolling over and accepting just anything, I am suggesting that Palestinians make peace, and while that is happening, recognize that Israeli action is not aimed at making Palestinian lives miserable (although I think that is starting to be part of the logic on the West Bank) but at increasing Jewish security.”

    That’s been precisely the logic on the West Bank and for that matter Gaza as well, though. Stop fighting for them means give up and accept extinction.

  • IconoclastTwo

    The laws made by who, and private property according to which definition? Oppressors always make laws to defend what they have previously stolen.

    You are right however that this conversation is over. You’ve made it extremely clear that nothing that I, or anyone else, says to you will ever be taken seriously as a point. Blocked.

  • jekylldoc

    Extinction? Where did that come from? It is clear to me that Hamas does not give two cents for the lives of Palestinians, but even they are not trying to extinguish the people.

    So you think a two state solution is not viable. I take it this means you would not accept a Jewish state of Israel. Do you understand why that sounds like “extinction” to Israelis? I think you should give some thought to what you condemn Palestinians to, if you frame the issue as “extinction for Israelis or extinction for Palestinians.”

  • IconoclastTwo

    “Extinction? Where did that come from? It is clear to me that Hamas does not give two cents for the lives of Palestinians, but even they are not trying to extinguish the people.”

    Why is that clear to you? The Palestinian government (which shouldn’t even be recognized as such because they didn’t even win the election that caused the split) in the West Bank does absolutely nothing to defend Palestinians against Israeli expropriation and abuse.

    “So you think a two state solution is not viable. I take it this means you would not accept a Jewish state of Israel. Do you understand why that sounds like “extinction” to Israelis?”

    No, because I don’t accept that Israel or whatever the people there may in the future choose to call it has to be a state in which the people from one ethnic group (currently Israeli Jews) should have an unlimited ‘right’ to crush, trample, and do whatever it takes to get rid of or dominate everyone else there. That would hardly mean that they don’t exist any more but that they wouldn’t get to engage in genocide against Palestinians any more.

    ” I think you should give some thought to what you condemn Palestinians to, if you frame the issue as “extinction for Israelis or extinction for Palestinians.”

    That’s the frame that you want to put me into using your words. I’m trying to point out that it’s the Palestinians that are threatened with extinction if they, using your words “Stopped fighting”. You refuse to acknowledge this as true because you refuse to acknowledge that they are in any meaningful way humans.

  • Bones

    So you’re the same as the islamists.

    What’s new.

    You’re supporting your own caliphate.

    Good argument that.

    I’ll nail it down for ya….

    Muslims kill Christians = bad
    Jews kill Christians = yay!

    Hang your head in shame.

    But nah you have no conscience.

    It’s been destroyed by ideology.

  • George Polley

    Of course there are Christians living in Israel, S. Philips, and they are all Arabs (Palestinians). There are also Muslims living in Israel, once again, Palestinians (I believe the official term is “Arab”). Israel is still a JEWSH State, in which they are the only ones with full citizenship rights and privileges.

  • IconoclastTwo

    Benny Morris also clearly called the formation of Israel “ethnic cleansing” (the euphemism for genocide) and fully justified it:

    http://www.counterpunch.org/2004/01/16/an-interview-with-benny-morris/

    Benny Morris: “That is correct. Even the great American democracy could not have been created without the annihilation of the Indians. There are cases in which the overall, final good justifies harsh and cruel acts that are committed in the course of history.”

    Interviewer: And in our case it effectively justifies a population transfer.

    Benny Morris: “That’s what emerges.”

  • S.Philips

    Killing any other fellow human being is prohibited by Almighty God thru His Ten Commandments. So it hardly matters who kills who? It is sin against creator God.

    In Israel, we see one side trying to impose a violent ideology which acted as mass killing machine for so long. And other side trying to defend their very existence.

  • S.Philips

    George, in that part of the world only muslims have right to live as full fledged citizens. They are the only religious group doing ethnic cleansing based on their holy books. And that is sanctioned and approved by their God and practiced by their very prophet himself.

    Many airlines from that region do not even permit jews to travel.

    See the fate of Christians there in Syria, Egypt, Libya, Iraq, Pakistan, Iran and so on.

    Tell me George who practices Apartheid as a policy? At least jews permit all others to live happily there…

    Still they are accused of ethnic cleansing. Even UNO report accuse Israel as practicing Apartheid, whereas actual Apartheid states are most of Muslim nations of middle east. And even Christians commenting in this web site blame israel and so happy to stand with other side.

    Does Jews go all over world and bomb innocent people? Do they explode as suicide bombers?

    Who killed 100s of people in recent times in various violent attacks across cities of France, Belgium,Germany? Is it Jews who run truck over 100s of innocent people? Why white people have such short memory?

  • George Polley

    S. Phillips, you are excellent at changing the subject and the ficus, and I quote: “in that part of the world only muslims have right to live as full fledged citizens. They are the only religious group doing ethnic cleansing based on their holy books.”In that part of the world” is a nice projection around Israel to all the others. I happen to know otherwise about Israel. Enjoy your life and your point of view; I won’t be back.

  • S.Philips

    Sorry George, you did not correctly understood my point. I was not changing the subject.

    I do understand Israel is a Jewish state. Right from inception of modern state of Israel it was rightly meant that way. In spite of that, Israel is giving equal rights and opportunities to its non Jewish citizens like Christians, Muslims, Druze etc,which is so amazing, in my opinion).

    Palestinians always consider themselves as part of broader Arab population and more than that as part of Muslim Ummah (community).

    As per Islamic texts Jews and Christians are a protected community(Dimmi or 3rd class citizens) provided they pay huge protection tax.

    Now, look at how much better treatment Israel give to its non Jewish citizens at the same time world including so many Christians and also UNO falsely accusing them as Apartheid practicing state.This was the point I wish to highlight.

  • Bones

    Btw this is about people like you…..

    “THE JERUSALEM DECLARATION ON CHRISTIAN ZIONISM”

    Statement by the Patriarch and Local Heads of Churches In Jerusalem

    “Blessed are the peacemakers for they shall be called the children of God.” (Matthew 5:9)

    Christian Zionism is a modern theological and political movement that embraces the most extreme ideological positions of Zionism, thereby becoming detrimental to a just peace within Palestine and Israel. The Christian Zionist programme provides a worldview where the Gospel is identified with the ideology of empire, colonialism and militarism. In its extreme form, it places an emphasis on apocalyptic events leading to the end of history rather than living Christ’s love and justice today.

    We categorically reject Christian Zionist doctrines as false teaching that corrupts the biblical message of love, justice and reconciliation.

    We further reject the contemporary alliance of Christian Zionist leaders and organizations with elements in the governments of Israel and the United States that are presently imposing their unilateral pre-emptive borders and domination over Palestine. This inevitably leads to unending cycles of violence that undermine the security of all peoples of the Middle East and the rest of the world.

    We reject the teachings of Christian Zionism that facilitate and support these policies as they advance racial exclusivity and perpetual war rather than the gospel of universal love, redemption and reconciliation taught by Jesus Christ. Rather than condemn the world to the doom of Armageddon we call upon everyone to liberate themselves from the ideologies of militarism and occupation. Instead, let them pursue the healing of the nations!

    We call upon Christians in Churches on every continent to pray for the Palestinian and Israeli people, both of whom are suffering as victims of occupation and militarism. These discriminative actions are turning Palestine into impoverished ghettos surrounded by exclusive Israeli settlements. The establishment of the illegal settlements and the construction of the Separation Wall on confiscated Palestinian land undermines the viability of a Palestinian state as well as peace and security in the entire region.

    We call upon all Churches that remain silent, to break their silence and speak for reconciliation with justice in the Holy Land.

    Therefore, we commit ourselves to the following principles as an alternative way:

    We affirm that all people are created in the image of God. In turn they are called to honor the dignity of every human being and to respect their inalienable rights.

    We affirm that Israelis and Palestinians are capable of living together within peace, justice and security.

    We affirm that Palestinians are one people, both Muslim and Christian. We reject all attempts to subvert and fragment their unity.

    We call upon all people to reject the narrow world view of Christian Zionism and other ideologies that privilege one people at the expense of others.

    We are committed to non-violent resistance as the most effective means to end the illegal occupation in order to attain a just and lasting peace.

    With urgency we warn that Christian Zionism and its alliances are justifying colonization, apartheid and empire-building.

    God demands that justice be done. No enduring peace, security or reconciliation is possible without the foundation of justice. The demands of justice will not disappear. The struggle for justice must be pursued diligently and persistently but non-violently.

    “What does the Lord require of you, to act justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.” (Micah 6:8)

    This is where we take our stand. We stand for justice. We can do no other. Justice alone guarantees a peace that will lead to reconciliation with a life of security and prosperity for all the peoples of our Land. By standing on the side of justice, we open ourselves to the work of peace – and working for peace makes us children of God.

    “God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.” (2 Cor 5:19)

    His Beattitude Patriarch Michel Sabbah
    Latin Patriarchate, Jerusalem

    Archbishop Swerios Malki Mourad,
    Syrian Orthodox Patriarchate, Jerusalem

    Bishop Riah Abu El-Assal,
    Episcopal Church of Jerusalem and the Middle East

    Bishop Munib Younan,
    Evangelical Lutheran Church in Jordan and the Holy Land

  • Bones

    The Holocaust has nothing to do with anything….it wasn’t palestinians killing Jews….

    You seem to think two wrongs make a right….they don’t.

    As for Apartheid Archbishop Tutu knows a thing or two about it.

    “I have witnessed the systemic humiliation of Palestinian men, women and children by members of the Israeli security forces,” he said in a statement.

    “Their humiliation is familiar to all black South Africans who were corralled and harassed and insulted and assaulted by the security forces of the apartheid government.”

    “In South Africa, we could not have achieved our democracy without the help of people around the world, who through the use of non-violent means, such as boycotts and divestment, encouraged their governments and other corporate actors to reverse decades-long support for the apartheid regime.”

    “The same issues of inequality and injustice today motivate the divestment movement trying to end Israel’s decades-long occupation of Palestinian territory and the unfair and prejudicial treatment of the Palestinian people by the Israeli government ruling over them.”

    “‘Those who turn a blind eye to injustice actually perpetuate injustice. If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor,”

    “It doesn’t matter where we worship or live. We are members of one family, the human family, God’s family”

    Who’s on God’s side, again?

  • Bones

    Israel does not give rights to Palestinians who live in East Jerusalem, the West Bank and Gaza.

    It does not recognise them as anything.

    They are not Israeli citizens……They are Palestinians. Which according to people like you and Israel, do not exist.

    That’s Christians AND Muslims btw.

    A group of people which you hate.

    Israel has occupied their land and has built Jewish settlements on it. And has placed limitations on where Palestinians can travel in their own land.

    That is Apartheid.

    That is too hard for your simple mind to understand.

  • Bones

    Yes…it is Palestinians defending their very existence from Zionists who want to take their land, supported by people like you.

  • Thela Ginjeet

    When your new independent country is invaded by five Arab armies fighting to ethnically cleanse the land of the new Jewish state, Jews fighting to defend it are going to return the favor.

    Today, there are 1.6 million Arabs living in Israel with fully enfranchised rights. At the turn of the century, there were 1 million Jews living in the lands of the Arab Middle East, now there are only a few thousand…Driven out by expulsion, persecution, and liquidation.

    Clearly, Israel didn’t do it right.

  • IconoclastTwo

    “I am not defending Israel no matter what it does.”

    So if you’re not defending Israel no matter what it does can you name anything that the Israeli government has done (even in recent history) that you would find objectionable?

  • S.Philips

    1. They have no idea what Bible says.

  • S.Philips

    Archbishop Tutu’s words are fine…but he is just another human being like you and me….
    More than human words I honor Jehovah God’s words and I stand with my Creator.

  • S.Philips

    If Palestinians in west bank reject violence I am sure Israel will respond positively,and all can live in peace and happiness.

  • S.Philips

    I can understand your feelings for your fellow Muslims….

    However Bones, you and me have no say….It is Jehovah God,the God of Abraham, Issac and Israel who alone is the ultimate authority….

  • S.Philips

    Armenian Genocide is what i referred above….Muslim Turkey killed more than 2 million Christians…..

  • S.Philips

    Psalm 121
    A song of ascents.

    1 I lift up my eyes to the mountains—
    where does my help come from?
    2 My help comes from the Lord,
    the Maker of heaven and earth.
    3 He will not let your foot slip—
    he who watches over you will not slumber;
    4 indeed, he who watches over Israel
    will neither slumber nor sleep.
    5 The Lord watches over you—
    the Lord is your shade at your right hand;
    6 the sun will not harm you by day,
    nor the moon by night.
    7 The Lord will keep you from all harm—
    he will watch over your life;
    8 the Lord will watch over your coming and going
    both now and forevermore.

  • Bones

    You said that wasn’t called a genocide……it is….

    The Japanese also massacred millions of Chinese.

    And this has what to do with Israelis stealing Palestinian land?

  • Bones

    Yes, you show yourself as dishonest that you will not even recognise the effect your support has on your Christian brothers and sisters in Palestine.

    That shows what a charlatan you are.

    You can’t speak of what you do not know.

  • Bones

    My Palestinian friend and his family was forced out at gunpont from his house on the West Bank by the IDF. His house was bulldozed and the land given to Jewish settlers.

    He is now the priest at Ramallah.

    This is what you support.

    What a shameful and hideous individual you are.

  • Bones

    I choose Tutu over your insane and racial ramblings.

  • Bones

    1. You have no idea what Jesus says.

  • S.Philips

    Bible contains all what Jesus said…..Jesus never was against jews or Israel…He was against their hypocrisy and sin. He clearly told that he will come back as King of Israel…Both Palestinian Christians and Muslims should realize this fact….Solution to Palestinian problem starts with that realization.

  • S.Philips

    Bones, you got all right to choose what you want…

  • S.Philips

    What is his name and address…I wish I could communicate with that priest..

  • Bones

    Here slimebag,

    the Rev. Hanna Daly, rector of St. Andrew’s Church, Ramallah

    http://www.episcopalchurch.org/library/gallery/image/rev-hanna-daly

    Tell him how much you support Israel.

    Wanker.

  • Bones

    Jesus was not a Nationalist……

    There were plenty of Nationalist movements at the time of Jesus……

    You do not follow Jesus….

  • Bones

    Unless you’re a Palestinian Christian.

    Then S.Philips will cheer as Israel takes your house and land.

  • Bones

    That doesn’t even make sense.

  • S.Philips

    Dear Bones, I will ask him why he do not believe Bible, still claim to be a christian.

  • Bones

    He believes the Bible – just not your Nationalistic crap.

    He follows Jesus – not nations nor ideologies.

  • S.Philips

    Thanks,so you claim you know me better, than I myself!!!

  • S.Philips

    Bones, if you are a christian you accept complete Bible.
    If you accept complete Bible you need to accept what God foretold about return of Jews.

    You cannot turn your back to God and deny Jews, the God given right of return to the land promised to their forefathers Abraham, Issac, and Jacob. Either you be a bible believing christian or just like any other human being who just want to apply human logic …..

  • Bones

    Yep….Your own words condemn you.

    But hey, you hate Palestinian Christians because they’re in the way of your idol.

  • Bones

    Dude, you would kill Jesus like the Nationalists did 2000 years ago.

    You ain’t no Bible believing Christian.

    You are a charlatan.

  • Abe Rahman

    finally!! a voice of reason! thanks for your input. I wholeheartedly agree.

  • Abe Rahman

    Exactly my point!!!!!!!

  • Abe Rahman

    Its hard to debate people like this. No critical thought in their logic, whatsoever. Follows blindly, failing to realize what he is advocating here stands against everything Jesus stood for. I”m sure if Jesus were alive today, he would be persecuted and discriminated against right alongside what remains of the Palestinian Christians in the occupied territories today, especially in Bethlehem. This guy clearly has never been to Bethlehem, or just never believed that Palestinian Christians even exist, regurgitating everything he was taught in Sunday school.

  • Abe Rahman

    By the way, Palestinian Christians and Muslims live in a state of peace, brotherly love and comradery. They have been living this way for hundreds of years and will continue to do so.

  • Bones

    Nadaf got the sack

    Agence France Presse reported today that Nadaf was officially sacked on Tuesday, but that the announcement only emerged today. “We warned him before to keep to his priestly duties and not to interfere in matters of the army,” Greek Orthodox Church spokesman Issa Musleh told the news outlet. “When he did not heed our warning, we held a meeting of the church court which decided to sack him.”

    http://mondoweiss.net/2014/05/palestinian-christian-service/

    Palestinian Christians dressed as Santa Claus march against Israeli occupation

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5YeXqzm-qQ

  • S.Philips

    are you a bible believing christian? avoiding my question?

  • Bones

    Lol….your little quiz won’t work with me…..You most definitely aren’t.

    You follow Nationalism and political ideologies which justify oppression.

  • S.Philips

    Do you accept Jesus as Son of God?

  • S.Philips

    I do not cheer at human miseries…i cheer at One True God, The God of Israel and His Son Jesus..I stand with One True God…not with Israel or Palestine.

  • S.Philips

    Bones, please do not judge people with out knowing much about them, if you claim to be a christian…

    If you are non christian that does not apply you..

  • apoxbeonyou

    “Palestinians always consider themselves as part of broader Arab population.”

    No; you have no proof of this and it is most certainly not factual. I’m married to a Palestinian; she considers herself (and family) Israeli Palestinian / Israeli Arab.

    “Now, look at how much better treatment Israel give to its non Jewish citizens.”

    What, like cutting off their utilities whenever they want, or limiting access to healthcare, or denying access to services, or supporting segregation, or ‘randomly’ stopping and harassing anyone non-Jewish in public places, or allowing businesses to not service them, or allowing apartment complexes to deny renting apartments to them?

    Yes, I have spoken to many in my wife’s family who have seen all of the above at least once. I have, personally, seen three.

  • S.Philips

    Palestinians Arabs and entire Muslim world claim Abraham (Ibrahim) as their forefather. And they do claim God favored Abraham.

    Only problem is they will not honor God’s promises to Abraham.

    Quran do not utter a single word about Jerusalem. Still Arabs and entire Muslim world claim Jerusalem as their own and deny any Jewish claim on it, in spite of Bible mentioning 1000 s of times about Jerusalem. Also so many Bible prophecies given by Almighty God Himself about Jerusalem is totally ignored and challenged by Muslim World. .

    This rebellion against the Holy God is the problem behind finding a solution.

    Now, God himself has to show to them that He honor what He promised to Abraham.

  • apoxbeonyou

    Palestinian Arabs are NOT all Muslims. My wife was born in a Christian family, and considers herself one.

    You might have book knowledge (although misguided, IMO), but I know people. The Christian Palestinian Arabs are suffering at the hands of the Zionists and people like you don’t seem to care. You prefer Old Testament ‘promises’ of land over Jesus’ mandate of love. Not having it, friend.

  • S.Philips

    wullaj, you wrote “You prefer Old Testament ‘promises’ of land over Jesus’ mandate of love”

    1. Jesus is not above his father, Jehovah God. Jesus said in Matthew 5:17-18

    17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.

    18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

    Remember, Jesus is always subject to His Father..All promises Jehovah God made to Abraham has to be fulfilled, whether we like it or not.

    That does not mean Israel should mistreat Palestinians. Jehovah God is a holy and just God. He love justice and severely punish injustice.

    Both Palestinian Christians and Muslims should seriously consider this fact. It is not wise to rebel against Jehovah God.For the simple reason we are mere human beings…Human beings are no match to fight with Creator God.

  • Bones

    Irrelevant….

    You support the oppression of people becuase of your ideology.

    Jesus doesn’t give a rats about your little quiz.

  • Bones

    Piss off.

    Palestinian Christians are not rebelling against God, you idiot.

    You are.

  • S.Philips

    … typical intolerance..keep on fighting as your God advised you..

    Look at hot spots of intolerance…(99.8% of Somalia Muslims..still they keep on fighting…what for?…so many got killed…so much poverty and famine…..they never learn to live peacefully….same story in so many parts of world…Not a single place in the world they can live in peace with any other community.
    How sad…

    bye Br. Bones…enough of discussion with you…bye

  • Bones

    Don’t be stupid….you ain’t God….and you don’t know anything about him.

    There’s plenty of intolerance everywhere at the moment…so piss off.

  • apoxbeonyou

    The law is already fulfilled; no longer under it. And I still maintain my point: violently removing Arabs (Muslim or Christian) from their lands via Zionism is an abomination. Also, the angry violent god you follow doesn’t exist. Get thee behind me, Satan.

  • S.Philips

    Are you saying Jesus was telling lies?

  • Bones

    No…you are.

  • apoxbeonyou

    Did I say that? I did not. Elaborate, please.

  • S.Philips

    I repeat once again.

    Jesus is not above his father, Jehovah God.

    Jesus said in Matthew 5:17-18

    17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.

    18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

    That includes Jehovah God’s promises to Prophet Musa and Prophet Ezekiel to bring back scattered Israel from ends of the earth back to the land promised to Abraham. If God wills so, how can human beings resist and win over Jehovah God?

  • apoxbeonyou

    The law was fulfilled when he died on the cross.

    Also, I don’t give a rats ass what you think ‘Jehovah’ god says but if it means killing innocent people in order to take some land from them then GTFO of this conversation. You are horrible and I want nothing to do with you. I’m done. *blocked*

  • DarthYan

    Israel never pulled out fuckhead. They control EVERYTHING in many ways and basically made the arabs lives a nightmare. Israel would GLEEFULLY herd them into gas chambers if they could

  • Thela Ginjeet

    Staying up late, doing drugs is obviously making you incoherent. Do you kiss your mother with that mouth?