No, The Bible Doesn’t Command We “Stand With Israel”

No, The Bible Doesn’t Command We “Stand With Israel” February 27, 2017

Travel Photos of Israel - Jerusalem Western Wall

When reporting or lamenting over the gross human rights violations and genocide by the modern state of Israel against the Palestinian people, many Christians immediately freak the heck out.

In fact, I am often told that I am “not a Christian” because I dare criticize the state of Israel’s behavior, as if blind support of a modern nation state were an obligation of being a True Christian.

Upon being stripped of my membership card in Christianity, many of these “internet Bible scholars” quickly remind me: God commands us to stand with Israel! But is that even true? I mean, for those of us who grow up in EvangelFundamentalism we’re taught that from day one– but just because our childhood pastor taught us this, and just because Grandma believed it, doesn’t make it true.

I’ve long written on this topic both on a theological and geopolitical standpoint, but wanted to quickly and concisely lay out a few points in response to the whole, “you’re not a true Christian if you don’t stand with Israel” nonsense.

As your Bible Explainer in Chief, let me quickly break it down for you– because no, the Bible doesn’t command we stand with Israel.

1. The entire “stand with Israel” theology is based on one verse, and the verse had nothing to do with any modern nation state born a few thousand years later.

Preachers will claim God commands we stand with Israel in order to be blessed, but that’s not what the Bible says. In Genesis 12:3 God is reported to have told Abraham, “I will bless those who bless you and curse those who curse you.” This was a promise to Abraham- neither biblical Israel nor modern Israel existed when this was written. It was a promise to Abraham as part of God’s covenant with him.

2. The Bible teaches that the true descendants of Abraham are spiritual, not ethnic.

The same preachers say, “Yes! It was a promise to Abraham and that extends to his descendants- Israel” but that’s not the whole story, either. The Bible actually teaches that “not all that descended from Israel belong to Israel” (Romans 9:6) and that a true descendant of Abraham is not ethnic but a matter of the heart (Romans 2:29).

Israel as a nation state is not what the Bible talks about when it talks about Israel. The New Testament Israel is comprised of all those who accept the King of Israel: Jesus.

3. Not even the prophets in the Bible blindly stood with Israel– including Jesus.

The biblical prophets are the last people who would seem “pro-Israel” because they were constantly rebuking Israel for bad behavior. And they didn’t hold back forceful language, either– some wrote that God utterly hated every expression of their religion because they were ignoring justice for the poor and marginalized.

On top of the prophets, remember that Jesus was executed as a traitor and a threat to Israel.

4. The Bible doesn’t command we blindly support people who are committing evil acts.

This is a concept we seem to understand in day-t0-day life, but all logic goes out the window when it comes to standing with Israel. For example, yes– God wants one to be faithful to their family, but does that mean you stand by and support them if they want to drive drunk? Do you support them if they want to shoot their neighbor and steal their car? Of course not- that’s nonsense.

Blindly supporting Israel would be like supporting a friend or family member regardless of their behavior, and I see nothing in the Bible or the teachings of Jesus that suggests we are supposed to support those who do evil, as they do evil.

Israel is an apartheid state where the indigenous people are oppressed and victims of untold daily discrimination and violence; it is a state that offers government subsidized abortions regardless of the reason, a place where Christians have had to petition the government so that they can walk down the street without being spat upon, a place where Christian places of worship are routinely attacked, where Palestinian children are mercilessly oppressed and even slaughtered, and a nation that is consistently rebuked by the international community for human rights violations that would not be tolerated anywhere else in the world.

Any theology that tells you to support all that is garbage, and you can figure it out without even having to dig deep into the theology. Like they say, you don’t have to stick your head in a trashcan to know that garbage smells.

The bottom line: What the world calls Israel is NOT what the Bible calls Israel. The world is referring to a nation state that was created just a generation ago– the Bible is talking about the people of Abraham, which are a spiritual people who have accepted their king: Jesus. It’s not a people group one is born into, but a people group you join by pledging your allegiance to Jesus.

So is standing with Israel a biblical concept? No. In fact, the stronger biblical case would be standing in opposition to Israel’s ungodly behavior.


unafraid 300Dr. Benjamin L. Corey is a public theologian and cultural anthropologist who is a two-time graduate of Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary with graduate degrees in the fields of Theology and International Culture, and holds a doctorate in Intercultural Studies from Fuller Theological Seminary. He is also the author of the new book, Unafraid: Moving Beyond Fear-Based Faith, which is available wherever good books are sold. www.Unafraid-book.com. 

Be sure to check out his new blog, right here, and follow on Facebook:

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What Are Your Thoughts?leave a comment
  • Patrick Barton

    Agree with this, except it is overly dramatized.

    I am no fan of Israel’s treatment of the Arabs in the WB and EJ, it is not even Israel, BUT, they have not attempted genocide.

    They are harassing the Arabs to death in hopes they will leave and at times are brutal. They cause our Christian Arab brothers huge problems because the US to Arabs is “Christian”( I wish it was not so, but, it is) and we side with the Jews mindlessly as you point out, so the Arab Muslims see the Christians as “American agents”.

    Genocide claims however are harmful to your message.

    If that were true, there would be no Arabs in those 2 areas, Israel has occupied both since 1967 with the IDF and national police.

    I would also out of curiosity ask you to document the claim about Christians petitioning the state as you state. I don’t doubt it’s true, just asking for documentation.

  • Matthew

    Does the modern State of Israel have the right to exist?

    Also … did blacks in South Africa have a right to sit in parliament under apartheid like Arabs do in the State of Israel’s parliament?

  • Benjamin, you usually write very good article (you are one of my top favorite bloggers). But this article is EXCEPTIONAL! Thanks.

  • dave_carter

    The first question is irrelevant. Israel exists, it is what it does that is the issue. As to the 2nd Q; Palestinians sit in the Knesset but cannot criticize Israel without being suspended by the zionist majority. What you fail to consider is the circa 4 million Palestinians in WB and Gaza who are under de facto Israeli control, but who have no say in their government. The PA is a mirage helping Israel keep control.

  • ZackBop

    Israel ain’t perfect. But neither are many of its neighbors, who’d like to see it wiped off the map (including that Palestinian government).

    But Christians are obviously under no obligation to support it.

  • Mr_MVK

    I wonder if the author is a passionate supporter of Jews for Jesus, since they seem to be only Jews based on his definition: “spiritual people who have accepted their king: Jesus”. It is easy to forget that God’s plan for His people is not over, they will accept Jesus, in due time. If God loves his people, why shouldn’t we?

  • Matthew

    I find these discussions about Israel and the Palestinians to nearly always be one sided depending on who is speaking.

  • dave_carter

    Of course Israel’s neighbours aren’t perfect, but it is not true that they, our indeed the Palestinians, want to wipe Israel off the map. What Ahmadinejad actually said was he looked for the end of the Zionist entity, which isn’t quite the same thing.

  • dave_carter

    Christians are supposed to be one-sided when it comes to justice and righteousness.

  • ZackBop

    It’s in their charter. And really? You’re going to defend Ahmadinejad?

  • Herm

    Ben, thank you, again, for daring to establish a don’t cross line between mankind constructive and mankind destructive.

    As a master debater, in my adolescents, while using the Christian Bible as my sole evidence I am very much aware how anyone can take the Bible as the reigning authority to justify their preconceived sense of correct before God, fact and/or alternative fact. Your artistically presented distain for the atrocities of Israel today at minimum should cause some pause for those who only know their Bible as presented by their “childhood pastor” and “Grandma”. Unfortunately, this will not reign in authority for those scholars who only know their security in God as presented in the Christian Bible. Truth cannot be known without accepting Jesus’ instructions today pertinent to today. Truth is most important relative to the eternal health of all mankind, as one body; each of whose life we wield our cross in defense of, ignorant or not.

    The Holocaust was a product of totalitarian authority, democratically elected, that murdered a minimum of 6 million people simply because they were a passive strawman easily cast as the enemy of the people (as those different others separate from the “people”). The United Nations has bent over backward to try to repay mankind’s indifference when it was too late.

    Nobody, to date, appears to even try to repay mankind’s indifference to Stalin’s totalitarian purge of over 50 million people.

    Today we have elected a president in the USA with his top advisor having previously endorsed Leninism (Stalin’s predecessor who laid the groundwork), reviving a 1930’s economic model (pre-Social Security, pre-Medicare, and pre-middle-class), respect for “white-Christian-nationalism” (Nazi style “white Arianism”) and the destruction of government established by our fore-fathers to be replace by totalitarianism.

    The “United” States of America is going down the path from whence modern day Israel rose, as a result of a totalitarian state sponsored murder of the passive strawman in the name of restoring Arian rights. Israel practices apartheid in the name of restoring what God gave them through Abraham, Moses and David. The United States of America and the United nations, as voting bodies, have not bent over backward to repay mankind’s indifference to the indigenous millions who died due to apartheid inside the United States of America or Israel (since relegating those indigenous to a lesser status) . The United States of America, as a proud pseudo Arian voting body, still endorses to financially support the restoration of God’s covenant with Moses in Israel while simultaneously endorsing the new covenant with Christ that replaced all authority before Him, most directly the covenant with Moses.

    This is the picture of mankind’s state of being today as I know it to be from verifiable facts available to all of us seeking such throughout the world today. Two thoughts that come from the Christian Bible today give me some comfort with trustworthy direction while seeking only in the spirit of truth for all of mankind’s well being:

    ***each one of us can only serve one master***

    ***forgive them Father for they know not what they do***

    I know that I do not know what I do without guidance from those who do. I know that only I, or only any of us of mankind, cannot fix it. I know, for certain, in my heart and mind that mankind is one presently fragmented body graced the image of God who is one harmoniously coordinated body in spirit. I know that the Palestinian, the Jewish Israeli, the Native American, and each of all ethnicities of mankind is an equal child of Man relative to me and my carnal heritage. I know that in love for each I will not remain indifferently silent while wielding my cross in defense for all sisters and brothers of my carnal body. All lives matter as that is the nature of God; my only master who does know what we do and can fix it when we elect to be fixed.

    Jesus teaches, in regards to the will and hierarchy of God, that the greatest among us will be our servant. Those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted. No one in all the history of Man has graced us with more humility than the Messiah. It is time, if we truly want it fixed, to learn only from the one Teacher; not the childhood pastor and Grandma who knew not what they were doing then, any more than each of us does alone today.

    If we are truly going to stand for our Father’s divinely mastered will we will no longer support any who abuse any of our siblings within the power of mankind, especially those abusers of God’s children doing so in God’s name.

  • Herm

    This really begs these questions, “exactly who is God’s people?” God loves His enemy, is that correct? Is God’s enemy “his people”?

    … and not all students of Christ believe “they will accept Jesus, in due time”.

  • caramia12

    Have you read the Likud charter…the party that is actively working to wipe Palestine off the map?

  • Sara

    Agreed with Dave – Israel exists. But Israel cannot be both a democracy and a Jewish State – it is one or the other. So the question is whether or not Israel should exist as a “Jewish State” – in which only members of one religion control an ethnocratic government that excludes and discriminates against non-Jewish peoples (Christians or Muslims) within its borders. This wouldn’t be right for any state or any religion (and where ethnocratic regimes exist around the world – I criticize them as well). Here is a great New Statesman article about why Israel is an ethnocracy and not a democracy: http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/the-staggers/2012/02/jewish-state-citizens-israel

  • Hisprisoner

    Nowhere in the bible does it say God loves His enemies. It does say that He hates the wicked many times, though.

  • David

    I’m curious if you’ve actually been to the West Bank, Gaza or any of the occupied territories. Your argument is clearly meant to deflect from the atrocities that take place on a daily basis. In my time there I’ve witnessed a lot of violence and nearly 100% of it was Israelis against Palestinian Muslims and Christians. What you should do is get on a plane and go see for yourself what takes place there. While it’s true that there are folks not keen on Israel’s existence I assure you, most of the problems are of its own manufacture.

  • Herm

    “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

    Matthew 5:43-48 (NIV2011)

  • Stuart Blessman

    No, that’s just us, not Jesus/God. He still hates them.

    Do as he says not as he does.

  • Blake

    “The entire enterprise of a Jewish state in Palestine is built upon an express rejection of international law. The only legitimate grounds for political sovereignty of an indigenous people are the laws of ius soli or ius sanguine as recognized in international law, which translates into a right of sovereignty based upon habitation in a particular territory or being a descendent of someone in a particular territory. The third option granting a right to sovereignty would be the discovery of a terra nullius that is an uninhabited territory. Palestine was never a terra nullius, and its inhabitants were entitled to a sovereign state in Palestine as part of Greater Syria, if they so chose, according to the ius soli following the demise of the Ottoman Empire at the end of World War I in 1917 and 1918. If their children were out of the country at the time of its establishment at a particular time, then they would be granted citizenship on the grounds of the ius sanguine if they had not been born in Palestine or Greater Syria.

    European Jewry did not fulfill either of these qualifications in 1917, when the Balfour Declaration, a document prepared by international Jewish leadership, and addressed by Lord Arthur Balfour, the United Kingdom’s Foreign secretary at the time, to Lord Walter Rothschild, a scion of the leading Jewish banking family in the world, resident in England, was written supporting a Jewish homeland [sic] in Palestine.

    The carving up of historical Palestine to excise the bulk of its territory for an imported unequivocally foreign population at the expense of the indigenous society was recognized not to be a politically legitimate action. Its destructive consequences should have been obvious a priori, and history has proved such expectation accurate. Such an excision has harmed the indigenous population in every and all aspects of its life: political, economic, social, educational, cultural, religious, historical and geographical. The destruction of Palestine, the expulsion of the overwhelming majority of its population and the deliberate and continuing genocidal attacks on the remaining population living under Jewish conquest, only highlights the illegitimacy of the Jewish presence and its continuing aggression against the Palestinians.”
    Lynda Burstein Brayer, a graduate of the Hebrew University of Jerusalem Faculty of Law, is a radical political and legal commentator who practiced human rights law in Palestine/Israel representing Palestinians in their struggles against house demolitions, land theft, and family destruction and in their efforts to obtain travel permits for health, study and family reasons. She lives in Haifa and can be reached at lyndabrayer@ymail.com http://criticallegalthinking.com/2012/11/19/palestinian-resistance-the-political-social-and-human-right-of-self-defense/

  • ZackBop

    Palestine wasn’t a state.

  • ZackBop
  • apoxbeonyou

    I’ve been there. It’s real.

  • ZackBop

    Let’s stop beating around the bush here. Do you believe the state of Israel has a right to exist or not? And if not, what should be done about it?

  • ZackBop

    Yeah. Israel has been fending off aggressors ever since they became a state. Palestinians regularly fire rockets into Israel, and a lot of Arab countries openly proclaim “Death to Israel.”

  • The Scofield Bible—The Book That Made Zionists of America’s Evangelical Christians http://www.wrmea.org/2015-october/the-scofield-bible%E2%80%94the-book-that-made-zionists-of-americas-evangelical-christians.html

  • ZackBop

    They’re an internationally recognized state.

  • ZackBop

    Nice list of totalitarian regimes you’ve compiled there. So I’m assuming your solution is to either force the Jews out or annihilate them. I see no other option. Unless you’d like to suggest one here.

  • ZackBop

    As far as I’m concerned, they earned the right to be there when the Arabs ATTACKED them (because they couldn’t accept a two-state solution) and Israel won.

    We’re dealing with a bunch of imperfect entities here, but Israel has a right to be there. That’s how wars work. Over the decades, Israel has offered up peace agreements. The Palestinian government doesn’t want peace. They want Israel gone (by any means necessary).

    Considering that the Jews don’t intend to leave the land they won in war, I believe they have a right to defend themselves. The second the Palestinian government wants peace, they’ll get it. But they don’t want it.

  • Jon-Michael Ivey

    It might also be worth noting that most of the Arabs in the middle east also claim to be descendants of Abraham, through Ishmael and/or Esau. Does a promise to Abraham mean we must always side with them too?

  • Anne O’Nimmus

    Um, no ZackBot, the Arabs did NOT attack israel. You have absorbed the zionist foundational mythology, which contains not a grain of truth – unless you turn it backwards.
    May 15 1948, the moment the British Mandate ends, israel declares its existence to the world – in order to *be* recognised, it declares its borders. Those borders, the only legally recognised borders to this day, are of its share of the Nov 1947 UN Partition Plan. Since that previous November, zionist forces had been committing massacres and ethnic cleansing (at that point some 400,000 Palestinians had fled their homes and properties, being an unarmed civilian population). They continued this aggression against a people with no armed forces even while declaring the existence of their state – except this continuation was OUTSIDE their declared borders in territory belonging to Palestine. The Arab forces entered Palestine, NOT israel, in attempts to protect an unarmed civilian population. The Arab forces were outnumbered by israeli forces, who were also better equipped, hwving armaments both bought and stolen from Europe, and donated by the US and by donors. Eight days after the state was declared, israel’s representative at the UN admitted that it was in control of territories outside its borders, and that to comply with the treaties and international laws it had signed up to it would leave these territories.

    As we know, israel has never left the territories it was illegally occupying even as it declared its borders. Israel’s aggression and refusal to comply with international law is the reason there are so many UN resolutions against it. Instead of leaving stolen land, it ended up with the Armistice Line (Green Line) becoming a de facto (but not De Jure) border until it invaded the rest of Palestine.

    It is israeli governments who refuse to make peace. They have been from the inception of project israel, determined to take all the land withas few of the indigenous inhabitants as possible.

  • Marja Erwin

    How can a state have a right?

    People have rights to protect against arbitrary power. States are arbitrary power.

    I think Jewish people, like any others, have the right to travel, and to security, and to a safe refuge from pogroms and the Shoah, (note that governments routinely violate people’s right to travel, and to security), but that doesn’t legitimize buying land from absentee Ottoman landlords, without regard to the people living there, or the Stern Gang, or the expulsion of Arabs in the 1947 war, or the divide-and-rule strategy that has created Hamas and fragmented Palestinian civil society.

  • ZackBop

    History tells a different story.

  • James W. Johnson

    a nation that is consistently rebuked by the international community for human rights violations that would not be tolerated anywhere else in the world.One would hope to remember Saudi Arabia too.

  • Hisprisoner

    I’ve memorized most of the New testament. You think I don’t know that verse. He is talking His disciples. That verse has nothing to do with God loving His enemies.

  • Hisprisoner

    The author of this article is obviously completely biblically illiterate and has no clue about the true nature of God.

  • Anne O’Nimmus

    No Zack, zionist mythology tells you endless lies. History books that use source documents – as found in israeli archives, british archives and UN archives – will give you facts.
    Maybe you should read Ilan Pappè, Avi Shlaim, or Tom Suarez.

  • Herm

    Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

    Matthew 5:48 (NIV2011)

    … and I thought Stuart, below, was just being humorous in a sarcastic sort of way. You just proved him to be right on. I’ll vote him up on that one.

    The greatest among you will be your servant. For those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.

    Matthew 23:11-12 (NIV2011)

    God is among us! You exalt yourself!

    You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me, yet you refuse to come to me to have life.

    John 5:39-40 (NIV2011)

    When you do not come to the Teacher, all the memory work you have so proudly done does you no good for you have not the Spirit of truth in you.

    “If you love me, keep my commands. And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.

    John 14:15-17 (NIV2011)

    You, by your fruit, cannot accept him, because you neither see him nor know him.

    You are prisoner unto yourself.

  • Anne O’Nimmus

    How about ýou read the Likud Charter Zack? That’s Netanyahu’s party. You’ll see they specifically will not give up an inch of non-israeli stolen land. No chance of a two state solution there.

  • Herm

    What are your credentials?

  • Hisprisoner

    Show me the verse that says God loves His enemies.

    Psalm 5:5 KJV
    [5] The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.

    Psalm 11:5 KJV
    [5] The Lord trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth.

    I can keep going…

  • Anne O’Nimmus

    Wrong. As soon as the various Mandates were finalised – back at the beginning of the 20s, Palestine, along with the others, became a state – just awaiting its independence.

  • Hisprisoner

    After reading more about this liberal wacko, I see that even reading an article written by Him is a form of blasphemy. Anyone who endorses child sacrifice and promotes abominable lifestyles is a mouthpiece of Satan himself.

  • ZackBop

    You definitely don’t sound like a brainwashed anti-Semite.

  • Anne O’Nimmus

    The state of israel exists. What is the world going to do to make it complý with international law and the treaties it signed up to? What is the world going to do to make it get back to its legal borders? Tò stop it from annihilating Palestine totally?

  • Anne O’Nimmus

    No such thing in law as a ‘right to exist’ for states.

  • Herm

    I just did, quoted from the mouth, the sword, of Christ.

    Your quote just quoted from the covenant with Moses as two songs from David, which is trumped by the covenant with Jesus upon whom the Spirit, appearing as a dove, descended upon.

    If the Spirit had descended upon you then you too would understand that the Father is perfect because He loves our enemies first as our, the children of God born of the Spirit, example. You would not being sowing the seeds of iniquity as you are doing now.

    How about you show me where Jesus is quoted to have said anything different than what I have shared with you.

  • Herm

    What are your credentials, beyond your self imposed exaltation?

  • Hisprisoner

    That verse does not say “God loves His enemies”. This is what happens when liberal ideology enters Christianity. You obviously don’t realize that God chose us just like he chose Israel. We have nothing to do with our salvation accept for the sin that made it necessary.

  • Hisprisoner
  • Herm

    Wow, ZackBop, you got us there. By our example the Native American tribes were not a state either so legally this land was ours to squat on while evicting those without a formal status we’d recognize. We don’t even recognize the formal treatise we’ve made with those whose land we took. You’re right, by our example, that Israel can treat anyone they wish with impunity if those others’ only claim is that they were there, occupying, first.

  • Herm

    What are your credentials, beyond your not knowing what you do?

  • Hisprisoner

    I’m a follower of Jesus Christ. I don’t identify as a Christian anymore because of people like this author.

  • Mr_MVK

    That would be foolish to deny that Israel is God’s chosen people, from Genesis to Revelation it is about God’s selecting a man Abraham and through him making a nation by which God is called: GOD OF ISRAEL. 2 Chronicles 6:14. The nation denies God’s Son until the point when they repent of it. You don’t find that about enemies of God.

    It’s up to you how you want to treat this subject, but the God’s world is clear: “And I will bless those who bless you, And the one who curses you I will curse. And in you all the families of the earth will be blessed.” Do you want to be cursed?

  • Eric11210

    The only way your ideas work is if you are a moron. The verse you mention is part of a larger blessing from G-d saying that He was giving the Land to the progeny of Abraham, thus clearly implying that his intention was not just to say this about Abraham. Only by slicing and dicing and taking things out of context can you come to such a ridiculous conclusion. Never mind that the idiotic line about genocide is equally pathetic — how can you call it genocide when the Arab population has increased dramatically? Only someone who once again is desperate to lie can make such a ridiculous claim. I didn’t even bother reading the rest of your diatribe because it’s such utter nonsense from the first paragraph on.

  • Eric11210

    Madame Jihad and her tired and desperate lies.

  • Mr_MVK

    Agreed.

  • Herm

    The Father is not of God?

  • Nick

    Maybe you missed the second point. You and I are the descendants of Abraham.

  • Nick

    I love that you show your knowledge of scripture by siting verses that prove your position and the love of God you display in your contempt.

  • Herm

    You are not a student of the Messiah. You judge as a Pharisees with far less formal training and no seat of Moses to set upon in authority as did the Levite priests you quote. Why do you set yourself up to crucify others when you have no way to recognize God in your midst than did the scripture scholars during Jesus’ ministry on earth? You know who I’m speaking about, those authorities of God’s chosen people who sought to crucify the Son of God in God’s name. You are less trained than they and Dr. Benjamin L. Corey. You don’t even have a clue, as Ben clearly does, the significance of the Spirit of truth with and in every child of God today forever. You are a fraud calling yourself a follower of Jesus Christ, without Jesus being in you and you in Him.

    Do you have any other more impressive credentials to judge in an attempt to crucify Dr. Corey in the name of God?

  • Nick

    Defection is fine. I think of it as iron sharpening iron.

  • Nick

    There are plenty of examples of the modern nation of Israel committing crimes. I find it hard to understand a theology that has God’s people (Christians) to suffer at the hands of God’s people (Israel).

  • there is no genocide in “palestine” the article is bullshit

  • there are no Gods, all of them are human imagination

  • Hisprisoner

    Matthew 11:25 KJV
    [25] At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.

  • Hisprisoner

    Daniel 4:35 KJV
    [35] And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

  • Under Evil acts what would you call treating “Palestinians” in Israeli hospitals for which they get no credit from the likes of the author of from the so called Palestinians who are mostly the descendants of immigrants from other Arab countries

  • Hisprisoner

    Psalm 14:1 KJV
    [1] The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.

  • Nick

    I love scripture, but I am not sure what you are trying to say here. Care to expound upon the verse you shared?

  • Nick

    Hi Mr. Kit. I am wondering what you hope to accomplish by your statement.

  • Hisprisoner

    Just showing you how much God loves the inhabitants of the earth.

  • Herm

    … and you read this in all your wisdom and prudence to say what?

  • Nick

    Then why bang your head against the wall? I go to conservative sites and discuss because I know that I can learn and teach them. Also, Calling your brothers and sisters in Christ fascist doesn’t seem like a useful way to build God’s kingdom.

  • Nick

    Or you know John 3:16 or Romans 5:10. I for one know that God loves his creation and wants to see it redeemed by Jesus’ blood.

  • Hisprisoner

    Just showing you want God thinks of Doctors….1 Corinthians 1:19 KJV
    [19] For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.

  • Herm

    fascist – noun – plural noun: fascists –
    * an advocate or follower of the political philosophy or system of fascism.
    ——–synonyms: authoritarian, totalitarian, autocrat, extreme right-winger, rightist; More
    * a person who is extremely right-wing or authoritarian.
    * a person who is very intolerant or domineering in a particular area.

    Josh, the irony is your exalting yourself above others while espousing the very same traits as you accuse others of. Blather on if you will but begin, for your sake, to look at the four fingers pointing back at you from your own hand.

  • Hisprisoner

    Proverbs 16:4 KJV
    [4] The Lord hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

  • Herm

    Now it was the governor’s custom at the festival to release a prisoner chosen by the crowd. At that time they had a well-known prisoner whose name was Jesus Barabbas. So when the crowd had gathered, Pilate asked them, “Which one do you want me to release to you: Jesus Barabbas, or Jesus who is called the Messiah?” For he knew it was out of self-interest that they had handed Jesus over to him.

    While Pilate was sitting on the judge’s seat, his wife sent him this message: “Don’t have anything to do with that innocent man, for I have suffered a great deal today in a dream because of him.”

    But the the crowd to ask for Barabbas and to have Jesus executed. “Which of the two do you want me to release to you?” asked the governor.

    “Barabbas,” they answered. “What shall I do, then, with Jesus who is called the Messiah?”

    Pilate asked. They all answered, “Crucify him!”

    “Why? What crime has he committed?” asked Pilate. But they shouted all the louder, “Crucify him!”

    When Pilate saw that he was getting nowhere, but that instead an uproar was starting, he took water and washed his hands in front of the crowd. “I am innocent of this man’s blood,” he said. “It is your responsibility!”

    All the people answered, “His blood is on us and on our children!” Then he released Barabbas to them. But he had Jesus flogged, and handed him over to be crucified.

    Matthew 27:15-26 (NIV2011)

    I see that I am getting no where with you who would crucify Christ’s brother founded only on the authority of the “chief priests and the elders” who have persuaded you in their righteousness. Ben already has picked up his cross to qualify as a student of the Messiah. Ben, in all his anguish at his last dying breath, will still ask our Father to forgive you for what you, in blind ignorance, don’t know what you do.

    You are so ignorant of the Spirit spoken of throughout your Bible memory that you still hang your life on the law of your local Pharisee and family tradition.

  • ZackBop

    That’s not what I said, Straw-Man Herm.

  • Herm

    Sorry, I forgot that you are such a hopeless romantic in love with the legend you see yourself as in your own mind.

    According to the definition of “fascist” by what do you judge me or Ben as such?

  • Hisprisoner

    The Twitter picture I posted from his feed is all I need to know about him. You shall know them by their fruits…

  • Hisprisoner

    John 17:9 KJV
    [9] I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.
    Sounds like Jesus is praying for the world here…

  • Herm

    That is what you said because the people we refer to as Palestinians were tribal occupiers throughout the land being ever more occupied by the Israeli Jewish people today. It is you who exude no substance or integrity if you cannot recognize Palestinians as first living on that land before the present day Jewish occupation.

  • Herm

    So your patriotism is to the United States of America first and then to your study of God second? You can’t serve two masters. What would Jesus do?

  • ZackBop

    I didn’t say the Palestinians weren’t living there, Straw-Man Herm. I said they didn’t have a legally recognized state (which is a historical fact). The original compromise was a two-state solution. Israel said yes and Palestine said no. Then they fought (Arabs attacked Israel). Israel won.

    If you had actually read what I said (and I’m certain you did not), you’d realize that I never said that Israel was perfect. No nation is perfect. Nor did I say that Christians are under any obligation to support Israel. But they have a right to exist there now, per how history played out.

    They aren’t going to leave. So the Palestinians can either agree to a two-state solution, or they can keep fighting. If they choose the latter, then Israel absolutely has a right to defend itself. And the Palestinian government is not interested in a two-state solution. They want to push Israel into the sea.

    Sounds like you agree with that assertion (if we’re gonna play the straw-man game).

  • Hisprisoner

    No scripture aka the Word of God aka Jesus Christ is my authority and anyone who supports abomination and child sacrifice is a denier of Christ.

  • Herm

    If your relationship with God is founded on a fear of being cursed then you do not know the good news. We, children of God, don’t kill people for not abiding in the Sabbath according to the Lord God. We don’t kill people for crucifying our Lord Jesus in the name of God. We pick up our own cross ready to die that our enemy might grow to live.

    There is no covenant of Moses in play today. All authority was given to my Brother Christ in heaven and on earth until the end without pause or delay. The Bible is not God’s word though it is inspired by those who testify to their relationship with God.

    This was witnessed to in regard to the word of God before any of the New “Testament” was written:

    After they prayed, the place where they were meeting was shaken. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and spoke the word of God boldly.

    Acts 4:31 (NIV2011)

    This is how we speak the word of God today:

    And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.

    John 14:16-17 (NIV2011)

    The curtain before the Holy of Holies was torn top to bottom at Jesus’ last breath on the cross. Since that time the Advocate has been available to all who accept Him. No Jewish temple today has a Holy of Holies where the high priest communes with God through the Holy Spirit. They accomplished what they were chosen to do with a lot of help from Jesus and our Father. Right now all of mankind (of every nation), made in the image of God, is chosen subject to become children of God, born of the Spirit who they accept.

    Do you know the Holy Spirit with you and in you forever without pause? If you do then you know exactly what I am speaking about.

  • Ron McPherson

    “And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others: Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican. The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess. And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.”
    ‭‭Luke‬ ‭18:9-14‬

  • Ron McPherson

    “A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another. By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.””
    ‭‭John‬ ‭13:34-35‬ ‭NASB‬‬

  • Hisprisoner

    I can’t believe Jesus judged these people like this! How intolerant of Him!

    John 2:15 KJV
    [15] And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers’ money, and overthrew the tables;

  • Hisprisoner

    Love is showing someone the error of their ways.

  • Ron McPherson

    You feel victimized by nothing more than mere Internet discussion because people forcefully disagree with you. But somehow those who would lose govt assistance that they depend upon for their very existence are not victims to you. Okey dokey

  • Ron McPherson

    Lol!!

  • Ron McPherson

    Uh that would be Jesus. So you qualify yourself to be on that level do you?

  • Hisprisoner

    Job 5:17 KJV
    [17] Behold, happy is the man whom God correcteth: therefore despise not thou the chastening of the Almighty:

  • Herm

    Jesus Christ cannot be your authority without the Spirit of truth with and in you forever. You cannot be a disciple of the Messiah without following the prerequisite tenets of Luke 14:26 and 27.

    I tire of this American Fundamentalist Christian judgment on what you term as “abomination and child sacrifice” when this is what is found in the Bible regarding abortion:

    http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/says_about/abortion.html

    … and this is what is found in the Bible, according to Jesus regarding all the law and prophets:

    So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.
    Matthew 7:12 (NIV2011)

    “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?” Jesus replied: “ ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”
    Matthew 22:36-40 (NIV2011)

    If you don’t intimidate, manipulate, subjugate and you do follow the spirit of the Decalogue the you are within all the law. What happens between consensual adults is not yours to judge, period.

    The Bible, especially the New Testament, is not and cannot be the word of God if this can be believed as the true word of God happening before New Testament scripture was written:

    After they prayed, the place where they were meeting was shaken. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and spoke the word of God boldly.

    Acts 4:31 (NIV2011)

    You are a disciple of the study of God, as were the Pharisee, and not a disciple of the one Teacher, one Instructor and a child of the one Father. You have no authority beyond this earth.

  • Hisprisoner

    God often uses men to correct His elect.

  • Hisprisoner

    Ahhhh…your true nature is revealed. I do not bid you godspeed antichrist.

  • Herm

    You are a prisoner if you believe you are wielding authority in the King’s English translation begun in 1604 and completed in 1611.

  • Herm

    Thank you!

  • Herm

    … like Caiaphas corrected Jesus?

  • Herm

    Your ignorance is showing when you believe that the settlements in question are Palestinian on Jewish land?

  • Ron McPherson

    So you would receive such instruction then?

  • Ron McPherson

    My gosh maybe you do fashion yourself as the Almighty

  • Hisprisoner

    Proverbs 14:7 KJV
    [7] Go from the presence of a foolish man, when thou perceivest not in him the lips of knowledge.

  • ZackBop

    Once again, I never said that. I’m done arguing with you, Herm. It’s like talking to a brick wall.

  • Herm

    Reread your rant and see where you might be considered;
    authoritarian, totalitarian, autocrat, extreme right-winger, rightist as well as a person who is very intolerant or domineering in a particular area.

    Just the fact that the moderator facilitates a venue where you can rant without being removed is liberal, loving, tolerant and enables us all to progress beyond ourselves. You are doing your best to quash these methods of communications, thankfully to Ben, to no avail.

    Your world will change when you exceed 40.

  • Herm

    I rest my case!

  • Ron McPherson

    Once again the irony is inescapable. You say others are trying to discredit your character while in the same breath labeling those who disagree with you as socialist fascists. In fact virtually every response of yours does that

  • psileste

    If you read it through to the end you might get it, which incidentally, I suspect might be the reason you didn’t.

  • Ron McPherson

    Have you ever been wrong lol?

  • psileste

    I urge you to watch this video with an open mind. Yes, it’s an hour long, but if you have time to publicly espouse a point of view, don’t you have time to inform yourself on the subject? Don’t accept anything at face value. Fact-check everything. This guy has all the bonafides you could want, but check up on what he says. That’s the only way you learn what’s true. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etXAm-OylQQ

  • Ron McPherson

    So God is instructing his followers to love beyond what he is willing to do lol?

  • Ron McPherson

    Ya know if everyone on the forum contributed a dollar for every time you’ve used the word fascist, we could maybe accumulate enough funding to eradicate world hunger.

  • Mr_MVK

    I don’t really think we can debate it: I do believe that the Bible is the word of God, and apparently you don’t. Then why you even quoting it, there are other good sources?

    Do you believe that Jesus is not just Brother, but Lord, Savior, God?

  • Ron McPherson

    Please understand that when you come onto a forum espousing outlandish views that those in public housing are only there because they make poor decisions, that Native Americans living on reservations are there because they abuse drugs and alcohol, that the LGBT community always receives equal treatment, and that unfettered capitalism will lead to altruistic motives by encouraging people to become better Christians rendering the need for govt social programs obsolete, then yes, you’re going to get pushback. Label those who dare to challenge these views as fascists and socialists if you must. But also understand that the rest of us are actually being generous to you in giving you the benefit of the doubt that maybe it’s only because you’re either young/naive or merely privileged to not know better. The other options are worse. I will not tag you with pejorative labels like you have done me and others. Instead, will give you the benefit of the doubt. I wish you peace. Seriously I do.

  • Ron McPherson

    Ah there’s that word again. At least another dollar can go in the coffer

  • Forrest Carlton Lackey

    I don’t think this article deserves the accusations of being super liberal or blasphemous. I’ve read the Bible, at least most of it, and many, many parts of it several times. I was raised in a Zionist household, I admit, but I also read the thing myself with college level notes while I was in highschool. I then went into the military intel field and came back very open to becoming a conspiracy theorist. I thanks to the Internet, I became enlightened, and the verses I had read helped in winning arguments against a bunch of old people who could have otherwise been sane and smart, but who’s humanity seemed to be corrupted by the Zionist cancer. They still wanted to see themselves as the greatest generation ever, fighting Nazis, but that mentality is sort of turning people into Nazis.
    The Israelis have one of the highest populations of athiests, homosexuals, and as mentioned state provided abortions. Those who chew out their children for asking for affordable healthcare and college tuition are very happy to send their tax dollars that makes sure Israel gets it’s college tuition for free, as well as healthcare, including abortions.
    Americans like to act like they give a crap about Christians being slaughtered in the mideast, but many actual mideast Christians feel that Israel has been working through certain wahabist jihadist terror groups to wipe out Christians in the Mideast and Palestine. Why? So more Americans will be like “Oh, there’s no more Christians? They were killed by Muslims? A-hyuck, well let’s do what we’ve been itching for an excuse to do all along-kill all Muslims!” I mean, from what I understand some Christians are better off under Palestine, Assad’s Syria, or even Hezbollah than Israel.
    The Zionists cry night and day about how evil ISIS is, but ignore Israel healing and funding ISIS, or that ISIS seems to attack mostly Muslims, does stuff like bans burkas, and wipes out Muslim Holy sites-as well as secure oil pipelines for Israel and ethnically cleanse areas in the ‘greater Israel project.’ They ignore the fact that America and Israel are basically ISIS’s airforce, and that when somebody actually defeats ISIS, they get threatened (cough cough, Putin’s Russia, Assad’s Syria, Iraq, Iran, Hezbollah, etc). Funny how we made a travel ban on the odd countries actually fighting ISIS at the moment, but not on known supporters of ISIS and sharia law, AND the country that 14/15 of the 9/11 hijackers came from.
    If God blesses those who Bless Israel, and ISIS is a blessing to Israel, does that mean God Blesses ISIS? Will God curse us for killing ISIS, which we know at this point is by and far made up of mercenaries from around the world, some of our own soldiers included, and led by CIA and MOssad to fight a war we really couldn’t get the people behind? Funny how ISIS also attacks european countries that were supporting BDS or Palestine, and then a bunch of Israelis ended up in charge of that nations’ security, how about that.
    Well, like ISIS, our current unconstitutional militarized police, which has been largely infiltrated by the KKK if not the UN also, is insanely huge government and anything but Christian with how little they focus on rapes and murders and more on pot with minorities. Also the police have become a big gang of pedophiles, rapists, and murderers, as well as drug dealers and buyers. Sooooo much child porn and steroids, so much rape of women and children, so much abuse of veterans, so little out cry from the so called small government christian conservatives. How dissappointing. Ya know I was actually liking the Alt Right for a while. Infowars and all them? They said the answer to 1984 is 1776. Apparently when people tried to be 1776 they became 1984. Guess the answer to 1776 is 1984 with these people. Well it wouldn’t be the first time NeoConquistadors got people to sacrifice their morals. So many times they would chose a pro gay pro abortion zionist warmonger over a pro life and pro traditional marriage christian who wasn’t war mad cuckservative.
    I would call these people ZioNazi, but that’s redundant because the zi in Nazi is short for Zionist. There’s a video that’s proof that the Zionists helped the Nazis. Why? Well because most jews at that time weren’t zionist, they felt that was rebellion against God, and many were actually well off in Germany. So the Zionists worked with the Nazis to exterminate the weaker elements of Jewry, radicalize the survivors through trauma, and on a global scale use that as evidence for the need of a zionist state.
    And of course, I talked to a nice Israeli boy who even said that the true survivors of the holocaust were treated like crap by the true founders of Israel, who basically wished more had died in the holocaust. The now golden child ruling class that enjoyed the benefits of democracy were the atheistic Jews that had just got finished launching a genocidal holocaust of their own against mostly Christian Ukranians, the Russian Holodomor.
    Once again, everything is designed to punish non Zionists.
    Nazism was designed to punish non zionist Jews.
    Communism was designed to punish non zionist Christians and easterners.
    Wahabism (Israel’s secret lover from saudi Arabia) was mean’t to punish non zionist Muslims.
    And the police state offspring of America’s corporatism will be used to punish non zionist Americans, including many Jews.
    Why do I say this? Because our police, like ISIS and Drug Cartels, have been trained and armed by America and Israel. And this started WAY before Obama and will probably keep going after him (I mean, Trump didn’t put Saudi Arabia on the Travel Ban, and Saudi arabia again is responsible for 1) it’s own Sharia Law 2) sponsoring ISIS, hell it’s probably where most of the arab looking ISIS soldiers come from, cuz very few are actually from Syria or Iran 3) it’s where most of the 9/11 hijackers came from).
    If our children aren’t dead in concentration camp somewhere, they’ll be spitting and pissing on our graves and cursing our names to the 3rd and 4th generation for our treasonous cuckoldry, selling their futures down the street to Globalist Corporations and the Synogogue of Satan, and sacrificing what little wisdom or Christian values we had left over for greed and power, and an excuse to enact revenge for losing popularity on our own children, even though we fell from grace on our own accord.
    Considering that the largely Zionist NeoCons originated from the far left, perhaps you people calling all of us critics of the GOP and AIPAC “liberals”, perhaps we’re not liberals. Perhaps you’re just fascist, so right wing it’s unreasonable and quite frankly just as socialist as liberals in your own way. You’re not a tough strict parent, you’re a bully. You’re not a small gov person, you’re for big gov run by corporations, not the free market. You’re not old fashioned, you’re just hateful. You’re not Christian, your true idol is greed. You don’t care about the Jewish people, you just have a death cult of FORCING God against his will to enact prophecy on your terms instead of trusting and obeying in His, and quite frankly you hate the Jews but love Israel. You just want to see it kill dark skinned people, who, ironically, are the actual semites and the closest relatives to Jesus.

  • Herm

    V M, I quote from the Bible because you read the Bible. The Bible points quite well and quite clearly to the word of God and makes it even more clear that it is not the word of God. It is a testimony to God but is not God. In the Bible is a mention that makes it clear that God can write in stone. I know the word of God as a student (disciple) of Christ in me and I in Him. Why would I need a book written thousands of years ago when my Teacher lives with and in me forever? Why do you and so many others try to contain a God of spirit with no beginning and no end in a physical Bible in total? Good News, God is real and lives with full authority in heaven and on earth today!

    I don’t just believe, I know Jesus as my Instructor, my Brother, my Lord, my high priest administrating the temple of God raised in three days, and my friend who I can stop any moment of any day to savor our divine relationship.

    My Savior is He who allows me to be born of God by immersion in Him, the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of truth, the Advocate, the Spirit appearing as a dove, and the Teacher. In Him (who is in Jesus, in our Father, in the mother and in all other children of God) I am a little infant spirit child of God today. I know you do not believe me, even though it is well documented in your Bible as the Way, but then neither did the Pharisees, teachers of the law or the court of Caiaphas believe Jesus was the Son of God/Son of Man.

    There is no debate because I am not sharing a hypothetical surmise of belief. I am testifying before you exactly what the Holy Spirit is telling me to share. I am testifying so that you look to seek, knock and ask the Teacher, the Instructor and the Father directly to allow you to know Them, also. I have no church I am selling. I am not proselytizing with any gain possible in it for me. My time on this earth is short and my treasure is already growing with interest, enough to last me an eternity.

    I am no more than a little infant child looking to grow my family with all who can meet the standards of Luke 10:27 as all children of God do and inherit eternal life. Again, there is no debate as you could not possibly convince me that your Bible is a greater source of divine growth and relationship than in God themselves when I know them from the inside and they me from the inside.

    What exactly have you learned you are save from and what do you expect to be doing for the rest of eternity? I wonder how you might answer if you don’t know today just who you’ll be sharing eternity with. Without that relationship today I would prefer to die than bet on a life that will not end founded only on a faith in a God I did not know personally before entering, like only from the Bible.

  • Herm

    Your reading comprehension suffers because you shift your blinders to see only what you expect to see. You are so sure without the world experience to be able to look back at yourself. There is nothing I have ever said to you that reflects the meaning of fascism. Good luck because you need to survive much longer until you can see the errors of your ways and the emptiness of the proof you think you offered.

  • Ginny Levin

    Well Said Benjamin Corey . God loves all of his people equally. I am sure he is crying at the atrocities taking place in his old home town and getting falsely done in his name.

  • Malarky, the bible is full of mythology allegories and down right made up lies. You have to cross reference with archeology to get down to the facts

    as far as “Jesus Christ”, this is a completely made up hoax

  • “many Palestinians” come from Egypt

  • that is a myth, the name is made up

  • the nature of god is imagination, much of that produced by pre-scientific late bronze age people

  • Of course they are , that is why there are so many of them, there is no god feedback to tell people otherwise

  • The Foolish people are those that invent god that command them to do atrocities

  • Daniel is an example of a pious fraud. Written about 164 BCE it pretends to have been written in 500BCE but gets everything wrong

  • John’s words, whoever John is, as the text was in flux until the 5th century

  • malarkey

  • Satan is just another Christian made up imaginary god

  • Mr_MVK

    Your way of thinking is not new to me, and if it would’t be a public forum, I could share more with you. The question comes to what extend we are influenced by the Satan, flesh and God. Time passes by and we realize that many things we have done are not as noble or even decent but at the moment we thought we were doing God’s work. Therefore, the Bible is not to serve as a limitation to our knowledge of God, but it is a solid foundation, that shouldn’t be broken. Once it is broken, what do you have to stand on, the world philosophy, fusion of religions or own thinking of the moment. All those can’t be trusted unless they go through the prism of the Bible. Even this topic, we get emotional about the Arab world and ready to judge Israel, but if you believe the Bible, it is clear what relationship we should have towards Israel. I used to attend Arab Christian Church and none of believers there had problem with Israel, they read their Bibles. They don’t support what Israel does, but they bless Israel, and I believe that’s a proper approach. Actually it seemed the only problem they had is with persecutions they experienced back home. The bigger problems comes that we tell God how things should be, we don’t just judge Israel, but we also judge God and His plan. When you don’t have the foundation things are much more complicated…

  • Jesus is a hoax
    A syncretic combination of the Jewish Cargo Cult Messiah and the typical Pagan savior dude

  • That is a lie. Ashkenazi Jews have predominately Middle eastern origin

  • Brandon Roberts

    i don’t see a reason to support isreal mainly i don’t care if jewish people have an ethnostate i don’t support a lot of what isreals goverment has done to pakistan hell i don’t agree with a lot of what pakistan does. but two wrongs don’t make a right

  • Herm

    Thank you V M. After ministering for about 34 years I know exactly what you say, I’ve said it to others before looking for a sound foundation they could trust. I have never been to the mid east but have to the far east, Middle and South America and Europe. All in the first 50 of my years before the Holy Spirit descended upon me, immersed me, has never left, has never paused, and promises to be with me forever.

    The Bible is a pointer to the Rock, is not the Rock, that Jesus is building His church on.

    I could play question and answer to lead you into the truth than I am more secure in, especially when things are more complicated than I am learned, than the Bible, any Bible or sacred parchment of Man. I will not because I sense you will deal with this fact appropriate to your quest and constructive for all. I can share this in any public forum.

    Our God is real and involved without removing any freedom of choice from any of mankind, made in spirit in the image of God. Yes, the spirit of Satan will manipulate, intimidate, coerce, confuse and bedazzle all of mankind on this earth who want to believe that they can or should be able to protect, provide and nurture themselves and theirs without God … many of those wield their Holy Book as their offensive weapon of choice usurping the authority and name of God. 1,984 years ago the same spirit had the audacity to crucify the Son of Man/Son of God in God’s name from the covenant of the Moses seat.

    22 years ago I realized that my God is truly omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient, is ready to serve, and loves all those who do the will of our heavenly Father as equally as all His children. I prayed directly to God, my Father and Lord Jesus, to protect me from evil, all evil. I knew then and know now that there is no Holy Book that can be trusted to protect me, a little otherwise helpless child of God, to the fullness of my divine family God. I have learned to trust that I will be provided for at all times, will be comforted completely when necessary, and will be given the words to say appropriate for the good of mankind by the Spirit of truth that a child could not share on his/her own.

    I found what the temporal Bible, written over a thousand years ago, points to that is eternal while spot on today, this moment, the living word of God when filled by the Holy Spirit. I no longer have any need for the Bible except to use it to point others to the Spirit of truth in their midst.

    The bad news is that if God wasn’t as real as the Bible says They are then there is no providing of nurture and protection to be had by God, ever. The good news I can testify to today is that God is very real and fully capable of providing for all our needs, including protection from evil no matter how complicated.

    Love you and your quest to love the Lord your God with all your responsible spiritual self (heart – soul – strength – mind), your good neighbor as yourself, and your enemy who does what you cannot condone. I hate anything, carnal and/or spirit, that is destructive to any of mankind. I grieve for those who must die and have great joy for those who will live. In everything I love with empathy, compassion and forgiveness for all others as I would have all others do for me. I feel you do, also. I would suggest that you cast off the Bible as your security crutch to trust wholly in the Spirit of truth who shares from and to within every heart and mind of God, including our Father and our sibling the Messiah.

    Thank you!

  • Hisprisoner

    This comment shows your ignorance of scripture. Daniel didn’t write Daniel 4. A gentile king did. And his reign is greatly documented.

  • Colin Austin Barnes

    I am commenting here with reluctance. I have been a Christian for over 50 years, lived 5 years in Israel, and been passionately involved in this discussion for decades. What I read above however is not a respectful invitation to a genuine discussion, but rather an ultimatum; that you are right, and if you hold a different view, you are damned. In fact, it is an exact copy of your own caricature of a fundamentalist position. You have set out an extreme position, and present it as absolute truth. Is this what is called “virtue signalling”?

  • Bones

    Lol this is the clown who labels Martin Luther King a fascist and government stooge.

    Don’t worry Palestinians, the free market will save you.

  • Bones

    The only arsehole here is you.

    It’s ok big business and corporations will save you.

    Derp.

  • Bones

    Yeah please do.

    You’ve already shown yourself to be a complete moron with no understanding of politics nor governance.

  • Bones

    Yeah plenty of times.

    He loves coming on here for an arse whipping.

  • Bones

    Yeah the Aussie here, living the socialist dream.

    Dickhead!

  • Bones

    The free market will save Israel.

  • Bones

    Lol…how funny that you support a fascist Zionist state.

  • Bones

    F**k your anti-semitism off.

  • Bones

    Complete bullshit.

    Jesus was no Zionist, neither were the early Christians.

    Far from it.

    They had nothing to do with Jewish Nationalism.

    You seem to have forgotten that little Jewish Roman War which wiped out the Temple in the first century.

    Look who’s put their fascist hat on.

  • Bones

    Palestine was a Class B Mandate – like Syria and Iraq.

  • Bones

    Any chance we can delete the anti-semitic nonsense, mods.

  • Bones

    So you think God wants Chelsea Manning locked up……or worse….

  • Bones

    Jesus doesn’t choose nations.

    Anyone who thinks He does has created a nationalistic idol.

  • Bones

    “but that’s redundant because the zi in Nazi is short for Zionist.”

    That’s complete and utter crap.

  • Bones

    Nope…God didn’t choose any nation……

  • Bones

    Got your fascist hat on I see.

  • Bones

    I see you’re ready for another arse whipping.

    I’m more than happy to give you one.

  • Bones

    Lol, most of the western world are happy with their socialist ideals of equality.

    Maybe you can f##k off to your own corporation driven paradise somewhere.

  • Bones

    Lol, he doesn’t even know what it means.

  • Bones

    Lol, Israel is only maintaining its borders….you must have missed the fascist notion of liebensraum at high school.

    Nice bit of fascism there supporting the oppression of countries which don’t worship your god btw – like Christians in Palestine and Lebanon.

  • Bones

    Israel sounds like a fascist state.

    No wonder you support it.

  • Bones

    God hates His own creation?

    Sounds like a pretty spiteful god you have there.

  • Bones

    Of course it does.

    The existence of Israel and the occupation of the West Bank and associated settlements are not the same.

    Do you support the building of settlements on the West Bank?

  • Chainmaker

    There’s only one truth. You either have it or you don’t. Every prophet and apostle gave the ultimatum. Submit to the one truth or suffer God’s wrath.

  • Bashir Abueid

    Thank you for the article. I can safely assume that my thanks are on behalf of all Palestinian Christians who have no place in the destructive eschatology of the Evangelicals.
    What is happening to us, the true descendants of the land, cannot be looked upon as collateral damage. The church of the Holy Land is quickly diminishing. 1400 years of Islamic rule did not do a fraction of the damage done in less than a 70 years of Israeli rule.
    We have been hoping for decades hoping that our brothers and sisters in Christ would actually pay attention to our plight and stop supporting and funding our executioners, and hopefully, change is in the air, low but steady.

  • Nick

    Thanks for the reply. I see a couple problems though. Dr. Corey isn’t a racist. He gave sound bibical teaching. If you wanted to “sound the alarm” you would need to provide scripture. As I said, when using scripture to discuss we are sharpening ourselves and others.

    I know that Mr. Bones can be abrasive at times. I also know that I can learn from him and he can learn from me. In the same way that people who are abrasive on conservative sites can as well.

  • Nick

    You are obfuscating. We were not discussing neighboring nations, but a theology built around blindly allowing Israel to do whatever it wants.

    I am not concerning myself with Muslim freedom in Israel. What I am worried about is Christians following an untrue theology and the impact that has on the Kingdom of God.

  • Anne O’Nimmus

    Josh.
    you claim israel’s only crime is to maintain its borders. Since its only legal and recognised borders are those it declared on May 15 1948 – those of its share of the Nov 1947 UN Partition Plan, either you are seriously misinformed or grievously misled. Obviously you need to find credible sources of facts rather tgan self-serving mythology.

  • Eric Bolden

    This comes from dispensationalism, where the “age of Grace”, where Israel is spiritual, is a parenthetical era stuck in the middle of the age of Law, where Israel was physical. When the Church is “raptured”, then the world will revert to the Old Covenant, and since current history is believed to be leading up to that, the establishment of a new physical Israel is seen as a sign. This then becomes an issue as to how biblical dispensationalism really is

  • Michael F. Copado

    The
    reason why certain right wing elements of Christianity supports Israel
    is because they believe it is necessary to have conflict in the Middle
    East in order to bring Jesus back, it’s also why there is such fervent
    hatred of Islam, despite the fact that it, along with Judaism and
    Christianity are the three “Abraham” who share the Prophet as their
    “founder.” (And God said to Abraham I will make you a father of
    nations.) The believe that strife in the Middle East is part of the end
    times prophecy, which they take not to be allegorical like the majority
    of sane Christians like me understand it to be, but literal. Some groups
    have been so literal as to have been hatching their own terror plots
    there. Some were busted with explosives just before the millennium.
    That’s what makes this administration extra scary, more so than even the
    Bush administration, most of these people fervent believe in this sort
    of thing. Especially now that Erik Prince is so tied into the
    administration, now you have a covert ops/mercenary type who can pull of
    those sort of false flag “terrorist” operation to start a war in the
    Middle East. This article came out in 2002, but if I recall really
    points out the beliefs that this branch or Christianity espouses.
    http://www.salon.com/2002/05/24/dispensational/

  • Nick

    no

  • Van A. Henson

    Everything wrong? I detect that despite your claims elsewhere about archeology you haven’t actually checked any of it.

  • Matthew

    I believe even many Palestinian evangelicals (think Bethlehem Bible College) would also agree with some of your statements (I assume you are not an evangelical?).

    For those unfamiliar with what Palestinian Christians in the land really think, a really good resource to check out is a book called “Christ at the Checkpoint”. It discusses the Israeli/Palestinian conflict through the eyes of (I think if I remember correctly) both evangelical and non evangelical Palestinian Christians living in the land. The testimonies and their theological support are really paradigm shifting.

  • otrotierra

    Stuart’s spiteful god needs to hear about Jesus.

  • Eric11210

    Except of course that this is fiction. Israel did NOT declare those borders. In point of fact, because the Arabs rejected the suggestion of 181, Israel’s provisional government ultimately voted to reject them as well. Once 181 was off the table, article 25 of the Palestine Mandate took over, meaning that Israel had a legal right to all the land from the River to the Sea.

  • Eric11210

    She definitely is.

  • Eric11210

    That is a lie. No MK has ever been suspended from the Knesset. Not Arabs, not Jews. The only one who was ever banned from running again for the Knesset was Meir Kahane. As for the nonsense about Israel controlling the Arabs in Gaza and the so called West Bank (a made up name which was created by Jordan when they illegally occupied the land), they actually live under the control of the Palestinian Authority, which is a dictatorship, just like every other Muslim majority country in the area. Israel has no control over them at all and only goes in to arrest terrorists but doesn’t run their lives at all.

  • Eric11210

    Why? The UK is a Democracy and a Protestant state.

  • Eric11210

    So then the Muslims who do not believe in Jesus as a god are also cursed according to you? Or did you forget that 99% of the so called Palestinians are Muslims?

  • fort5569

    So disgusted by this twisted “nazism”‘ posing as something of “christianity”, raising its ugly genocidal axis of evil propaganda of hate again!

  • fort5569

    It was not Israel as a nation that pushed out the Christians, it was the horrendous invasion of islamics posing as “refugees” who immediately started their thuggery of discrimination and exploitation, especially after the 1967 war that were responsible for pushing out “Christian” Palestinians! Fact Christians do live within Israel safely and securely, except in those areas of gaza and the west bank where islamics in 1967 went flooding in, pushing out Christians, where today still Christians cannot live safely with genocidal Islamic thug bullying of extortion via violence!

  • dave_carter

    Wrong on point 1. (http://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Politics-And-Diplomacy/Arab-Israeli-MK-Ghattas-suspended-from-Knesset-477226). Next, Jordan did not illegally occupy the West Bank. They assumed control under an agreement with Ben Gurion. You are seriously misinformed about the Muslim majority nations, but a history lecture on the way we in UK and US destroyed democracy is for another place.
    The PA’s authority is subject to Israel’s control. Israel’s military in WB has priority. Trade tariffs are administered by Israel and withheld at the slightest whim. Israel controls power into Gaza, fires upon defenceless fishing boats, ignores Hamas arranged ceasefires, and invades Gaza practically on a daily basis; but you won’t hear that on the news. As to going in to ‘arrest terrorists’; Israel is perfectly capable of assassinating its targets without even entering Gaza. It goes in to create terrorists. As long as it is ‘fighting terror’ it can carry on breaking international law and Biblical commandments because it will get US & UK support.

  • fort5569

    So funny how you reference “archeology” but then state Jesus Christ is a hoax! Most Jewish scholars themselves admit Jesus existed as a historical figure supported by archeology and written history, what they dispute is whether He is Christ!

  • Matthew

    Ah … did you hear about the Messianic Jewish pastor who was taken from his house and thrown into a swimming pool at the hands of religious Jews? Persecution happens on all sides — not simply Muslims against Christians and Jews.

  • dave_carter

    Christ at the Checkpoint is a biennial conference held in Bethlehem, and hosted by Bethlehem Bible College. It is attended by evangelicals from around the world, (I’ve been twice).For a personal perspective try ‘Palestinian Memories’ by Alex Awad, if you can get it. Otherwise: ‘I ama Palestinian Christian’ by Mitri Raheb, ‘Occupied with Nonviolence’ by Jean Zaru, (both by Fortress Press), and ‘Jerusalem Testament’, by Melanie May, (Eerdmans)

  • Eric11210

    You said the Jews who don’t believe in Jesus were scattered, i.e. cursed.

  • Matthew

    Thanks so much for the other book suggestions. The point is, though, the issue comes down to how one interprets the Bible. Dispensationalists are pretty tough to convince that other eschatological interpretations indeed exist. Until they are willing to even consider this possibility, we will continue to have problems I’m afraid.

  • Eric11210

    Error 404 – Page not found

    Sorry but the page you are looking for cannot be found

    You have probably typed the address incorrectly, or the page you were looking for may have been moved or deleted.

    Please visit our Archives or use the search box

  • gimpi1

    Perhaps you’re unfamiliar with the Bill of Rights? The U.S. forbids any discrimination based on religion. (Yes, we haven’t always lived up to that. We’re doing better now.) It also does not base citizenship on anything but birth, does not have apartheid-like rules subjecting any group to different rules than other groups (Yes, again, we haven’t always lived up to this. We’re doing better now.)

    The U.S, is not a Christian or Protestant state. It’s a secular democratic republic with a Protestant majority. Very different. Catholics, Jews, Muslims, Atheists, Pagans, and none-of-the-above all have the same civil rights, the same legal protections, the same property rights and are subject to the same laws and punishments.

  • dave_carter
  • Wonder

    Harassing to death an entire people isn’t genocide?

  • John

    As a conservative evangelical, I totally agree with your Biblical analysis of Israel.

    With that said this statement:

    Israel is an apartheid state

    Is nonsense.

  • Chris

    Evangelical America is deeply sick. It is rife with the heresy of Zionism. I have heard Zionist preachers teach we must attack Iran to protect Israel. Russia is ‘Gog’ and therefore the enemy.
    Satan must be really enjoying all this.

  • Eric11210

    Now the link works. I stand corrected. However, you claimed falsely that simply criticizing Israel is what gets them suspended. Here’s the truth in the article you quoted: Ghattas is currently under house arrest after he was caught on camera smuggling cell phones, SIM cards and documents to prisoners convicted of terrorism. Not exactly criticizing Israel but actively committing a crime. A US member of Congress caught committing an actual crime would also be suspended.

  • Eric11210

    Please take the time to read what I write instead of rushing in and sounding silly. And go ahead and look up the official religion of the UK. Not the US. Geeze.

  • Wesley

    one just has to ask how have America been blessed since the creation of the modern state if Israel. we are still in South Korea about as long the modern state existed with no victory in sight. we had endless wars in Vietnam, Afghanistan, and Iraq where the only way there is any end is us just pulling completely out. $16trillion in nation debt since just 2001. how is that a blessing? Spain after exile the jews from the nation in 1492 became the first western European super power after the fall of Rome and stayed that way for over half a century when England defeated them who kicked out jews a century earlier than Spain. most of these people who worship Israel would called these cursed. if the curse means super power status and blessing means endless wars and massive debt then maybe we have it wrong?

  • there is no “Archaeology” supporting Jesus at all. they didn’t start making churches in the holy land until the 4th century

  • seems we have endless wars

  • Zionism has nothing to do with your paganized death cult

  • And they want Jews to convert and become “messianics”

  • Israel is now “physical” too

  • Christianity is a late invention to the land , Jews were there long before

  • can he swim?

  • jesus is a hoax

  • And resulted in persecution of the jews by the christians

  • there is no god, all religions are man made

  • God is imaginary and loves nobody

  • Jesus is a hoax

  • The Jews wrote the Bible, do you think they would chose the Irish?

  • God is imaginary , and that’s the truth

  • education, are you receptive to learning?

  • Wesley

    the reason for much of the diminish of Christianity in the west and Gaza is result of the “eye for eye, tooth for tooth” mentality of both the jews and muslims fighting each other. Christians and muslims lived side by side in relative peace outside of times of wars for centuries. now they are both targets of the zionists invaders. most Israeli Christians are actually messianic jews and not Palestinian Christians. ironically Christians in the West Bank can openly evangelize their muslim neighbors, but it is a crime to evangelize in Israel proper.

  • dave_carter

    As I understand it he is still under investigation, so innocent till proven guilty. What must also be accounted is the well documented failures of Israel’s judicial system with regard to the rights of detainees. Check I.e. B’tselem. 3 other Arab MK’s were suspended in Feb 2016. The Knesset has passed a law on this that makes criticism of Israel an offence.

  • Eric11210

    I think video proof is pretty convincing. And no, the Knesset passed no such law.

  • Matt Furse

    AGREED! (If you are interested in more about this issue— I recommend this book— “Who is Israel?” — written by a Bible-believing Pastor… @ http://www.whoisisrael.org

  • Matt Furse

    Not all of America’s Christians are “Zionists”! — http://www.whoisisrael.org

  • guerillasurgeon

    It depends on how you define Israel. In the occupied territories for instance, Palestinians have to cope with.

    No right of free speech, assembly or movement

    Arrest and imprisonment without charge or trial

    Torture

    House searches without warrant

    Assassination, extra-judicial murder.

    But even within Israel proper, there are places set aside exclusively for Jewish occupation and building.
    The education systems for Jews and Palestinians are largely separate and unequal.
    There are at least twenty laws that discriminate against Palestinians and favour Jewish citizens.
    Palestinians are largely under military law not civil law.

    So if Israel is not an apartheid state, it is well on the way.

  • The Happy Atheist

    “Invasion of islamics”? Leaving aside the sneering racism of the word “islamics” (is that even a word?), the people we now call Palestinians were already living all over the mountains and coastal plains of modern Israel when the people of Israel arrived. They were “refugees” by 1967 because they were forced off of their land by Israeli soldiers after 1948 for doing nothing more than defending their homes and property from the real refugees: European Jews displaced during WWII.

  • Matt Furse

    “It was NOT Israel as a nation that pushed out the Christians…”???

    Confession of a former Jew—- “For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews’ religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it: And profited in the Jews’ religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers.” (Confession of a former Jew-turned-Christian in the early first century – Galatians 1:13-14 — his “no Christians allowed” behavior coming just months after the Jews demanded the Roman government that Christ be crucified) Also, Read the entire book of Acts, to learn “who was pushed out by whom”… {Visit: http://www.whoisisrael.org }

  • Matt Furse

    Another book for you to consider— http://www.whoisisrael.org

  • The Happy Atheist

    Okay, we all get that you think Jesus is a hoax. That is a fairly extreme view even for us atheists. But can you just let go of it for the sake of argument?

  • irishpuppy39

    If one follows the beginnings of the blind “Biblical support” of the Zionist state, it goes back to Freemasonry, no great shock there.

  • Patrick Barton

    Wonder,

    No. It diminishes the case in fact to go to such anti intellectual hyperbole. Persecution and holocaust are not synonyms.

    I hate how Israel is even in East Jerusalem and the West Bank, but, I also hate how America has treated our black citizens.

    Words mean something and holocaust is a slander toward Israel, persecution of the weaker Palestinian Arabs is NOT and diverts attention from reasonable people when we overdo our accusations.

  • John

    Yes, the West Bank and Gaza Strip are under military occupation. You are welcome to disagree with it, but it’s a fundamentally different situation to apartheid.

  • apoxbeonyou

    Prove it.

  • apoxbeonyou

    I see it, now. You are a troll. No real comments; just replying to people with the opposite to incite a response. *blocked*.

  • Nick

    Dr. Corey also doesn’t want a welfare state to do the Church’s business. He has stated that the government often does what the church is supposed to be doing. “The simple fact is, my claim has been that nowhere does Jesus or the Bible advocate the Church using the government to cure societal woes” This is very similar to what he has stated in the past. However, if the church isn’t doing it why be mad that the govt is?

    You again allege that I don’t know what I am talking about yet you are the one making misleading claims. I don’t always agree with Dr. Corey, but it’s not cool to misrepresent his positions.

  • Nick

    Your 1st paragraph gets to the heart of the matter. You are creating a strawman to destroy. You misunderstand my position.

    I haven’t seen anyone with credibility say that christians should support Iran over Israel. I will say that both should be help accountable to international law. Right now only Iran is. So this is another strawman.

    “The fact is, it’s a sensible geo-political strategy save for the fact that it’s a minority religion in the region” The Kingdom of God doesn’t need to worry so much about what the nation they reside in does with political alliances as much as they do Kingdom building.

    “any Islamic nation, which has notable atrocities towards minorities” Are you implying that all Islamic nations have committed atrocities against their minority citizens?

    “If this were a legitimate worry, I’d be supportive of it.” Glad to have your support. Get’s go forth and teach others that American Christians are under no biblical obligation to stand with Israel.

  • Nick

    I am. But, many of your statements on this board do not seem to be instruction. Rather they seem to be designed to rile people up.

  • Hisprisoner

    May your own words condemn you.

  • Hisprisoner

    You are exactly right. This article is completely anti-Semitic.

  • Hisprisoner

    Boo hoo. If you want “your” land back, go ahead and try to take it. I’m sure Allah will help you.

  • Hisprisoner

    Yeah please delete this article.

  • Tis always intriguing when people debate Israel, and swing from the Holy Scriptures to humanism to make their point of reasoning.

  • Hisprisoner

    This article is exactly the reason why the next holocaust will kill two in there Jews instead of one in three like the first holocaust did.

    Zechariah 13:8-9 KJV
    [8] And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the Lord , two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein. [9] And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The Lord is my God.

  • otrotierra

    All the slothful hysteria of a Trump Rally. Congratulations.

  • Hisprisoner

    Someone with cats in there handle pic should be real reliable.

  • It’s a common problem when trying to put a link in a parenthetical — DISQUS tries to include the closing parenthesis as part of the link

  • Nick

    I have enjoyed conversing with you online. It has reached that point where I have realized that you cannot inform my position on this issue (the lies, allegations, strawmen, and misdirection) and I cannot inform your thinking (the lack of listening and misrepresenting of what Dr. Corey and myself have written).

    Peace to you

  • Nick

    Do you think the author has done this?

  • Nick

    Where do you get that idea from?

  • Nick

    Care to counter a biblical argument with the bible?

    “ugly genocidal axis of evil propaganda of hate” Where do you see this in the article?

  • Good question, but I was originally referring to the comments section.
    But since you raised the matter – the author made four Biblical points which are almost sufficiently clear and should have been supported by Scripture. And yes….has also included several unnecessary humanistic points….discrimination, apartheid etc and the international community as an apparent guideline on Godly living.
    The author seemed to confuse point one with point two and possibly did not drilled down deep enough.

    Point (1) mentions “neither biblical Israel nor modern Israel existed”

    but then justifies point (2) by including the Scripture ““not all that descended from Israel belong to Israel”

    Evangelicals mostly talk gibberish due to failing to distinguish between the House of Judah and the House of Israel, including the “whole House of Israel” and the secular sovereign nation state of Israel.
    Genesis 12:3 refers to the Abraham’s descendants who maintained their faith in God. They will call upon His name later.

  • Nick

    Thanks for your thoughts.

  • But two Rights made an airplane

  • William L. You said “Jesus did not come to save the Jews only, He came to save the world.”

    Not originally…..at least until being rejected, dying and rising up.

    Jesus Himself said “But He answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” (Matthew 15:24)

    “…..for salvation is of the Jews.” (John 4:22)

    “……God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, To redeem them that were under the law,….” (Galatians 4:4-5)

  • John

    That’s just factually false. The vast majority of Palestinians living in Israel left on their own free will to other Islamic nations. Those nations rejected them and they were stuck.

  • Cannot dispute you. Simply enjoying the sequence of events as their comprehension is significant in helping to understand the prophetic Scriptures.

    Jews were the first Christians and Jews will be the last Christians. Was only raising the fact that the ministry of Jesus was to Jews and to the House of Israel under the Law. After being rejected, crucified (‘you shall bruise His heel’) and rising again (‘He shall bruise your head’) the Kingdom was offered to one and all to be grafted in.

    Redemption being offered to whole world has always been the goal, which would have occurred via the whole House of Israel – had they accepted Jesus Christ as the Messiah.

    “Go NOT into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: But GO rather to the lost sheep of the House of Israel. And as ye go, preach, saying, The Kingdom of Heaven is at hand.” (Matthew 10:5-7)

  • guerillasurgeon

    You obviously didn’t actually read the second part of my statement then.

  • Ron McPherson

    Then why waste your time on this blog?

  • Seriously, you can’t answer the point, so you call me a troll, you’ve never thought about the fact that there are so many Gods and all holy books say the earth is flat . Obviously God doesn’t talk to anybody

  • Hisprisoner , The Jews have their own state and atom bombs now. This prevents another holocaust . The only reason the Holocaust happened is that the Jews had no escape, no country and no means of fighting back

  • whatever works

  • the Bible says the Land is for the Jews , It is the deed. this means foreigners like the arabs really don’t have any valid claims

  • People who hate on Freemasonry have no Idea what Freemasons, do. They run Children’s hospitals

  • John, Israel is not apartheid state. Arabs have full rights .

  • Palestinians have to cope with.

    No right of free speech, assembly or movement

    Of course they do, but Hamas and Fatah are not democratic and suppress descent of all kinds

  • Pardon me, there are no Israelis in Gaza, this claim tells me you are an ignoramus

  • James53

    If you can call fleeing brutal terrorist massacres “leaving of their own free will.” Only in America do people still believe this discredited Zionist talking point. Israeli historians like Ilan Pappe and Benny Morris demolished this lie decades ago.

  • James53

    “Allah”? You do realize he’s a Palestinian Christian, right?

  • James53

    Yeah, let’s calmly debate the pros and cons of genocide, theft and mass murder.

  • Almost self explanatory, but nevertheless – in the Age of Grace we are all one – those who believe on the Lord Jesus Christ shall be saved…..Jew, Israeli and Gentile
    “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:” (Ephesians 2:8)

    But “In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.” (1 Corinthians 15:52) occurs – then God refocuses back to the House of Judah and the House of Israel for His remanent.

  • The Bible also gives a warning in Apocalypse 2:9 and 3:9

  • John

    What? When did I say there were Israelis in Gaza?

  • The Book of Revelation is a flat earth pipe dream.

    The book of Revelation is silly. It has stars falling to the earth, knocked out of the sky by a dragon. It has the sky ripping like a curtain.

    The Sky is not a curtain

  • That is just another hate rag, Freemasonry is a late invention by Christians

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freemasonry

  • Israel is the Jewish people. The Benei Yisroel

    the State of Israel is a modern invention on the same land as ancient Israel and Judah

  • John guerillasurgeon • 9 hours ago
    Yes, the West Bank and Gaza Strip are under military occupation.

  • Kevin R. Cross

    They aren’t Arabs. The Palestinian people have been there for just as long as the Jews have – both are semitic peoples, and that area is both their homelands.

  • Bashir Abueid

    Thank you James

  • Bashir Abueid

    Thank you Matthew. No, I am not Evangelical, I am Orthodox Christian (please not to be confused with Orthodox Jewish). And yes, it is about time the American people read our side of the story; I would say the genuine side of the story.

  • Bashir Abueid

    Not true by any standard. You are repeating, ourt of ignorance I hope, basic Zionist propaganda.

  • Hisprisoner

    A true Christian is content in whatever situation they are in. I’m not buying this sob story.

  • Hisprisoner

    You are an idiot

  • Why do you?

  • and you are an ignoramus

  • There is no mention of the “Philistines” after the time of David, They were not players in Canaan and probably assimilated. The Current “arabs” were forced into this cultural straight jacket by centuries of dominance by an invasion from Arabia.

  • you have to OCCUPY a land to be occupiers
    Apparently this distinction escapes you

  • dave_carter

    Video proof has to be tested, and , yes, the Knesset did pass such a law (May 2016, I think), although somewhat watered down. It is being challenged in their supreme court. Not that that means much. Unquestioning support for Israel cannot be justified, especially Biblically, and I think we need to end this conversation. Please do your own research

  • Brandon Roberts

    this is pretty funny

  • Bones

    Complete bullshit.

    The reason for the holocaust was thousands of years of Christian anti-semitism.

    And that prophecy has nothing to do with your claim.

  • Bones

    What for not believing verses you plucked out of your arse.

  • Bones

    Lol its now humanism to fight against oppression.

    While you’re working out what the Bible says just get out of the way.

    Archbishop Tutu

    “I have witnessed the systemic humiliation of Palestinian men, women and children by members of the Israeli security forces.

    “Their humiliation is familiar to all black South Africans who were corralled and harassed and insulted and assaulted by the security forces of the apartheid government.”

    “In South Africa, we could not have achieved our democracy without the help of people around the world, who through the use of non-violent means, such as boycotts and divestment, encouraged their governments and other corporate actors to reverse decades-long support for the apartheid regime,”

    “The same issues of inequality and injustice today motivate the divestment movement trying to end Israel’s decades-long occupation of Palestinian territory and the unfair and prejudicial treatment of the Palestinian people by the Israeli government ruling over them.”

    “‘Those who turn a blind eye to injustice actually perpetuate injustice. If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor,”

    “It doesn’t matter where we worship or live. We are members of one family, the human family, God’s family.”

  • Bones

    Yes a claim from a book written by Nationalistic Jews 2500 years ago about the land belonging to them after they had been invaded by Babylon, Assyria, Persia, Greece, Egypt, Rome……

    Yeah that overrules any Arab whose lived there for the past 2000 years.

  • Bones

    Since when are secular states built on religion or even ethnicity.

    You are openly advocating an apartheid state.

  • Bones

    Yeah the US was really blessed when Israel attacked US warships.

    Thanks for dragging the rest of the world into your wars in your quest for liebensraum.

  • Bones

    From someone who knows about apartheid

    Archbishop Tutu

    “I have witnessed the systemic humiliation of Palestinian men, women and children by members of the Israeli security forces.

    “Their humiliation is familiar to all black South Africans who were corralled and harassed and insulted and assaulted by the security forces of the apartheid government.”

    “In South Africa, we could not have achieved our democracy without the help of people around the world, who through the use of non-violent means, such as boycotts and divestment, encouraged their governments and other corporate actors to reverse decades-long support for the apartheid regime,”

    “The same issues of inequality and injustice today motivate the divestment movement trying to end Israel’s decades-long occupation of Palestinian territory and the unfair and prejudicial treatment of the Palestinian people by the Israeli government ruling over them.”

    “‘Those who turn a blind eye to injustice actually perpetuate injustice. If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor,”

    “It doesn’t matter where we worship or live. We are members of one family, the human family, God’s family.”

  • Bones

    Archbishop Tutu

    “I have witnessed the systemic humiliation of Palestinian men, women and children by members of the Israeli security forces.

    “Their humiliation is familiar to all black South Africans who were corralled and harassed and insulted and assaulted by the security forces of the apartheid government.”

    “In South Africa, we could not have achieved our democracy without the help of people around the world, who through the use of non-violent means, such as boycotts and divestment, encouraged their governments and other corporate actors to reverse decades-long support for the apartheid regime,”

    “The same issues of inequality and injustice today motivate the divestment movement trying to end Israel’s decades-long occupation of Palestinian territory and the unfair and prejudicial treatment of the Palestinian people by the Israeli government ruling over them.”

    “‘Those who turn a blind eye to injustice actually perpetuate injustice. If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor,”

    “It doesn’t matter where we worship or live. We are members of one family, the human family, God’s family.”

  • Bones

    How long are you going to occupy it for?

    Until you’ve driven all the Palestinians out?

  • Ahmed Asgher

    I find it interesting that everyone is quoting old references to NT/OT. Do you not have a brain of your own? True Israelites were servants in the land of the Pharos in Egypt. Moses saved them by enticing them to “The Promised Land.” yet he never set foot on the so-called Promised Land. Could this Promise have been a spiritual one rather than a piece of land? It was not until generations later in Book of Joshua that he raided the land of Canaan with his band of motley crew, setting fire to every house and killing every life form. One more question: How come these supposedly Jewish tribes from Africa suddenly have blue eyes and are blonds??? One staunch Jew actually told me that their women were raped by Europeans. Spare me from your hate. Answer if you have something intelligence to say. Shalom.

  • Bones

    See the Christian response to oppression.

    You’really a complete merkin.

    There are plenty of Arab Christians being oppressed by Israel.

    Must remember the next time I see my Palestinian minister friend in Ramallah who was forced out of his home by the IDF at gunpoint then they bulldozed it for settlements

  • Bones

    More alternative facts….

    Arabs left their villages after hearing of the massacres by Jewish militia.

  • Bones

    Palestinian babies burn pretty easily apparently.

  • Bones

    It’s why dispensationalism is dangerous.

  • Bones

    Who responded by persecuting Palestinians.

    Who shot Rabin?

  • Bones

    People as dumb as you cannot discern the difference between criticism of a secular state and racism.

    And that goes on both sides.

    You’d be quite happy to see Israel as an openly apartheid state.

  • Bones

    What point is that?

    You’re the one with religious extremists taking others land because God said.

  • Bones

    This is the god that according to you doesn’t exist telling the Jews it’s their land…..

    Yeah good point that…..

  • Bones

    The whole “bad things happen to people is god’s judgement ” is complete garbage.

    The Christian interpretation of the catastrophic fall of Jerusalem is clearly anti-Jewish and probably anti-semitic.

    Think about how modern Jews might reflect on Christians saying the first holocaust was God”s judgement.

  • Bones

    Funny.

    I’m a follower of Jesus Christ. I don’t identify as a Christian anymore because of people like you.

  • Bones

    And mocking people living in oppression.

    Thanks for showing your true colours, Satan’s prisoner.

  • Bones

    Lol…

  • Bones

    Yeah we had a conservative government threaten to cut our free health care.

    They went out on their arse real quick.

    It was good talking to the kids today about how businesses and corporations exploited workers in the industrial revolution.

  • Bones

    In other words big business and capitalism will save you.

    Derp.

  • Bones

    1.

    You’ve got it arse around. Alcoholism is high because the community is impoverished. It’s a symptom not a cause.

    It’s the same with our aboriginal people.

    Communities which have lost all traditional identity trying to live in the white man’s world with social problems that are multi generational. It has nothing to do with traDE

    2.
    The lgbt community have been scapegoats since like forever. People still think they can deny them rights that they give every one else even denying medical treatment in some cases.

    it wasn’t that long ago that gays stayed in the closet or be arrested.

    Of course the right are still fighting in some countries over same sex marriage but have now drawn their battle lines onto transpeople and bathrooms.

    The fact they’ve been using them for decades with no fuss, is irrelevant.

    3.
    This is pure naivete and pie in the sky nonsense.

    There is no way the church can, even if it wanted to ( and it doesnt) to provide for the unemployed , mentally ill, vets, single parent’s, the sick, the old…

    Now we know about countries which have no welfare.

    Where children beg on the streets or in 90s Philippines when children searched through dumps to find food.

    Or as I was talking with my history class about the explosion in crime in the industrial revolution which provided no welfare. So guess what people did to live. They stole.

    The idea that people are going to live on soup kitchens is stupid.

    4.

    It’s been pointed out how dishonest your use of the term fascist is. You’ve made up your own definition. The movement inspired by mussolini has nothing to do with free heath care or as you so dishonestly said free education (actually you said that was hitler!!) So the one being exceedingly dishonest here, is you.

    5
    ‘Compassionate fascism’

    And now you’re making up more shit.

  • If only Des Tutu could have removed the fork from his tongue…..typical humanistic mumbo jumbo from a man in a frock masquerading as a man of God. Hilarious! Comparing apples with oranges in an attempt to make a point… sounds good to the uneducated ear but defeats the purpose.

  • Bones

    Now you nothing of world politics if you know nothing of oppression by the Israeli State (fascists lol) in Palestine. I mementioned Lebanon as well as you called those other nations having false or materialistic gods.

    Which is ironic as that’s what you have.

  • Bones

    Good. Then you showed your comment that western Christians are born to be zionists as the usual crap.

    Oh and Jesus wasnt a politician although he was a political figure. Neither was he living in a modern secular western democracy.

  • Bones

    You mean the way it practices apartheid against Palestinians, both Christian and Muslim.

    No wonder you love it.

    More liebensraum please.

  • Bones

    Nah i’ll side with jesus over your nonsense.

    God created us to hate us according to you.

    your gods a bit of a merkin.

    Just as well jesus isn’t.

    You’d hate him though.

  • Bones

    You do know Jews have representatives in the Iranian parliament and Bibi used the race card when he looked like losing last election by saying that Arabs were swarming to the voting booths.

    The issue is about Palestinians who aren’t Israeli Arabs.

    According to Israel they are no one.

  • Bones

    Is Jewish an ethnicity or religion?

  • Bones

    Meh please ignore the ignorance of those who belittle your suffering.

    Know that real Christians and believers in justice stand with you.

  • Bashir Abueid

    I’m sure of that and I thank you for your support, but I lament the status in which we find Western Christianity today; almost entirely hijacked by Zionist principles and heresies that resemble nothing of the faith confessed by the early church.

  • Bashir Abueid

    So the way to prevent another Jewish holocaust is for the Jews to make their own holocaust against the Palestinians, while playing victim all the time. Is that it?
    Well, Golda Meir once said “After the holocaust, we can do whatever we wish”

  • Bashir Abueid

    “For he is not a Jew, who is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
    But he is a Jew, who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.” Rom 2:28-29

    “For you are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
    For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ….
    There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
    And if you are Christ’s, then are you Abraham’s descendants, and heirs according to the promise.” Gal 326-29

  • Bones

    At what stage did the Father start hating the Prodigal?

  • Bones

    Bad luck for you then because you are an enemy of God.

  • Matthew

    I’m wondering Bashir Abueid … are you friends with any Jewish people? Any Messianic Jewish believers?

  • Bashir Abueid

    We are put in a situation where it is immensely difficult to meet ordinary Jews. The only Jews we meet are either occupation soldiers with their big guns, or the violent settlers burning down our crops and homes and stealing our land.
    Therefore, no, I have no Jewish friends. My family had and still maintains some business relations with some Israeli companies (in Israel proper), and I remember going almost weekly to Tel Aviv as a child in the 1980s. But later on, things went from bad to worse and they are hiding behind their walls which they have built on our stolen land. We only see them when they attack us.

  • Matthew

    Thanks.

    What do you think about the call to love one’s enemies?

  • Bashir Abueid

    We try our best, but we are human after all. We try to resist peacefully, but even that kind of resistance is met with brutal force from the Israeli soldiers.
    When your home is demolished, your land is taken away, a family member is killed, not many people act according to the principles of the Gospel. After all, the door is narrow and those entering are few.

  • Bones

    Yeah I think I’ll take tutu’s word over some anonymous hack who has done nothing for anyone.

    You’re one of those who has to have a bible verse to tell them to do the right thing.

    Most of us know what is right and wrong.

    You keep searching for that bible verse and stay out of the way of people who want to end injustice and oppression.

  • Matthew

    Thanks. Peace to you.

  • Bashir Abueid

    Actually thank you for taking the time to listen. May I invite you to this facebook group that promotes peaceful resistance? It is titled “I’m Christian but not a Zionist”
    https://www.facebook.com/groups/1446230188972261/1808237809438162/?notif_t=like&notif_id=1488218339937406

  • Ron McPherson

    Atheists are definitely welcomed here. Just wondering what you’re hoping to accomplish by continuously repeating ‘there is no God’ on a Christian forum lol.

  • Yawn – good for you! Your point is what exactly?
    Would rather you still wallow in pathetic confusion – either I have a Bible verse or am still searching for it.

    Like your one eyed friend Tutu – you cant make your mind up so have it both ways – while you prance about beating a withered chest uttering grandiose statements regarding injustice and oppression.

    Since when has South Africa mirrored Israel??. Were both countries established in similar fashion? NO. Did Tutu observe both Israel and Palestinians? NO. Did Black South Africans vote members into parliament during the apartheid era? NO but arabs serve in Israels parliament. Did the Palestinians have an original democratic territory? NO. Did Tutu mention how much debt the Palestinians owes Israel? NO. Did Tutu wring his hands over the Palestinians/Jordanians ethnically cleansing Jews from the Judea/Samaria and East Jerusalem between ’48-’67? NO.

    Typically – you and your humanist colleagues struggle to make a coherent point, but like empty vessels – tend to make a lot of din.

    Just be honest for a change and tell the complete story….not a one-sided version

    Now run along and let the big boys converse in constructive dialogue.

    The uneducated are simply hilarious

  • Matthew

    Thanks for the invitation, but I am not a Facebook user.

  • apoxbeonyou

    Who are you fighting against? Who is ‘hating’ you?

    Edit: Nevermind. I read the comments below and figured it out.

  • apoxbeonyou

    Which part of Israel are you from?

  • Wonder

    Your words :
    “Harassing the Arabs to death”

    There’s been more than one genocide in history.

  • Mike

    Israel is a creation of the UN. It was founded by humans not God. Ancient Israel was the kingdom of twelve Hebrew tribes. Three of those tribes practice the religion Yohan Ben Zakkai that he created (with Rome’s permission) after the destruction of Herod’s temple in 70AD. The other nine tribes practice Christianity or Islam. NONE of them practice the religion of Moses. None of them even practice the religion of the Pharisees or Zadokites. Most of israel’s people have had the Hebrew bred out of them if they ever had it in the first place. They could easily be descended from converts with no genetic connection to the Holy Land.

    Tribe of Reuben
    Tribe of Simeon
    Tribe of Levi
    Tribe of Judah
    Tribe of Issachar
    Tribe of Zebulun
    Tribe of Dan (Greeks)
    Tribe of Naphtali
    Tribe of Gad
    Tribe of Asher (Assyrians)
    Tribe of Joseph
    Tribe of Benjamin
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelve_Tribes_of_Israel

  • BT

    Honest answer. And true. How does one feel any different than this when one is slowly and intentionally being squeezed into increasingly non-viable settlements. It’s a form of ethnic cleansing without the genocide (though many are in fact dying.)

    My best to you and yours. We are supporting those who support you – with our prayers and our wallets.

  • gimpi1

    What you said is that the U.S. is a Protestant Democracy. I pointed out that that’s not true.

    I also tried to explain why I don’t consider Israel a true democracy. They run an apartheid state, where penalties in law are different for people depending on their religion/ethnic origins. For instance, they practice company-punishments in which the families of people who commit crimes suffer punishments. This is both a violation of international law and something they don’t subject Jewish citizens to. In my opinion, no country can be considered democratic if they limit franchise, have a privileged class and have different treatments of people accused of crimes. Israel does all three.

    Now, what did I miss in your comment?

  • Mary Burke

    No, that’s not true. Look at WW1, the Treaty of Versailles. Look at Zionist Movement in the early 1900’s, the British fighting the Ottomans, the Transfer Agreement, losing Palestine, American Jewish Congress BDS of Germany”Judea Declares War on Germany – Jews of All the World Unite – Boycott of German Goods – Mass Demonstrations.” The article described a forthcoming “holy war” and went on to implore Jews everywhere to boycott German goods and engage in mass demonstrations

  • Mary Burke

    Why must the human race be obligated to adhere to any one religion?

  • John

    In the words of Howard Sachar, a well known and respected historian, in his book A History of Israel: From the Rise of Zionism to Our Time, “most of these 1967 fugitives departed voluntarily; no [Israeli] attempts were made to influence them to leave” (This is being specifically applied to the 300,000+ Arabs who left as a result of the Jordanian invasion.) These people were within the West Bank, an area that was under the control of Jordan at the time. So these people were moving from one part of Jordan to another.

    The NYT also reported: “”At no time during a number of long talks with Arabs in this area was anything said to support Arab charges at the United Nations that thousands had been forced to cross the Jordan River from the west bank area occupied by the Israelis ….” (“War Brings Problems for ’48 Palestine Refugees,” New York Times, June 15, 1967).”

    Let’s also not ignore the 800,000 Jews who were actually kicked out of Arab countries around the same time period.

  • Mary Burke

    How do we prove whose truly a Jew with direct lineage? Some Palestinians could be true Jews that converted a thousand years ago to Islam. It’s all nuts. Why must anyone believe all these Europeans are really ethnically Hebrews from the ancient tribe described in the Bible? Now I hear Ivanka Trump is a Jew so does she now qualify for “right of return”? Right of return after thousands of years. What a mess that turned into.

  • Herm

    It is not good for you to criticize others supported only by the display of your ignorance. It is difficult to help you to understand the letter to the seven churches when you begin with “pipe dream”, “silly”, and “The Sky is not a curtain”.

    I know that you are one who learns by challenging those who care with your child like propensity to flaunt by statement rather than question. I care.

    Every one of the seven churches that received this letter (Revelation) understood the metaphors within that the oppressive Roman and Jewish rulers did not, because the Spirit (like of Acts 4:31) was their Teacher. It was a revelation much more of their recent past and their present time than a distant future prophesy.

    This is the passage I am relatively sure you are referring to:

    I watched as he opened the sixth seal. There was a great earthquake. The sun turned black like sackcloth made of goat hair, the whole moon turned blood red, and the stars in the sky fell to earth, as figs drop from a fig tree when shaken by a strong wind. The heavens receded like a scroll being rolled up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place.

    Revelation 6:12-14 (NIV2011)

    It is interesting that you were taught by someone to visualize a curtain when neither a curtain or veil are mentioned in any English language translation of the book of Revelation.

    Read the following scripture with the understanding that each of our spirits, graced mankind in the image of God, is our heart, our soul, our strength, our mind as one distinguishable spiritual body from any other; a body to which we each are held responsible to our own.

    This is the significance of the curtain (veil):

    And when Jesus had cried out again in a loud voice, he gave up his spirit. At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth shook, the rocks split and the tombs broke open. The bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life. They came out of the tombs after Jesus’ resurrection and went into the holy city and appeared to many people.

    Matthew 27:50-53 (NIV2011)

    This is the significance of the Spirit relative to the heavens and curtain torn:

    Just as Jesus was coming up out of the water, he saw heaven being torn open and the Spirit descending on him like a dove. And a voice came from heaven: “You are my Son, whom I love; with you I am well pleased.” At once the Spirit sent him out into the wilderness, and he was in the wilderness forty days, being tempted by Satan. He was with the wild animals, and angels attended him.

    Mark 1:10-13 (NIV2011)

    This is testified to as to what occurred relative to the curtain and earth phenomenon at the moment Jesus died.

    It was now about noon, and darkness came over the whole land until three in the afternoon, for the sun stopped shining. And the curtain of the temple was torn in two. Jesus called out with a loud voice, “Father, into your hands I commit my spirit.” When he had said this, he breathed his last.

    Luke 23:44-46 (NIV2011)

    Now the first covenant had regulations for worship and also an earthly sanctuary. A tabernacle was set up. In its first room were the lampstand and the table with its consecrated bread; this was called the Holy Place. Behind the second curtain was a room called the Most Holy Place, which had the golden altar of incense and the gold-covered ark of the covenant. This ark contained the gold jar of manna, Aaron’s staff that had budded, and the stone tablets of the covenant. Above the ark were the cherubim of the Glory, overshadowing the atonement cover. But we cannot discuss these things in detail now. When everything had been arranged like this, the priests entered regularly into the outer room to carry on their ministry. But only the high priest entered the inner room, and that only once a year, and never without blood, which he offered for himself and for the sins the people had committed in ignorance. The Holy Spirit was showing by this that the way into the Most Holy Place had not yet been disclosed as long as the first tabernacle was still functioning. This is an illustration for the present time, indicating that the gifts and sacrifices being offered were not able to clear the conscience of the worshiper. They are only a matter of food and drink and various ceremonial washings—external regulations applying until the time of the new order.

    Hebrews 9:1-10 (NIV2011)

    Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days.”

    John 2:19 (NIV2011)

    The function of the first tabernacle was destroyed when Jesus gave up His spirit and the curtain was torn top to bottom. On the third day Jesus rose from the dead as the eternal temple rose with Him, with Jesus as high priest then, now and forever more.

    Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”

    John 4:23-24 (NIV2011)

    All seven churches understood the significance of the sixth seal. Their faith to continue in the Spirit then bolstered by this obvious acknowledgement by God of their plight through John in the midst of onslaught from those authorities that the Spirit had not descended upon; the Spirit once found in the most Holy of Holies and now found in the hearts and minds of each new child of God. To them this letter was not a “pipe dream” or “silly”.

    If you truly care to learn there is only one Instructor and one Teacher from whom you can decode the significance of metaphor found in the letter known today as the book of Revelation; neither is me for I am but a little disciple of Christ as were each of Christ’s siblings in the seven locally designated churches addressed.

  • Jeff Preuss

    “Someone with cats in there handle pic should be real reliable.”
    Someone with no profile picture critiques the worth of someone’s comments, based on their choice of an innocuous profile picture.

    Yeah, your credibility isn’t exactly high here.

  • Herm

    So does ISIS!

  • The Happy Atheist

    You are right that many Palestinians were displaced after 1948, for obvious reasons. If you are asserting that they left before that of their own accord, you are wrong. It is a fact of history that millions of Arabs – who identified themselves as Palestinian – were living in modern-day Israel in the early 1940s, when immigration from Europe began in earnest. In fact, it was the Jewish people who emigrated from the Middle East from the 70s CE into the modern era. By the mid-19th century there were few Jews left compared to the large Arab population.

  • The Happy Atheist

    I fail to see how this refutes @disqus_iz5fcdqSyS:disqus point. He is absolutely right. Christian bigotry was by far the most significant contributor to the Holocaust. And it was nothing new. European Christians had been torturing, drowning, burning, beating, and burying Jews for centuries. They were quite specific about their reasons, too: Jews were responsible for the death of Jesus, and the fact that they had been “expelled” from the Holy Land was proof of their guilt in god’s eyes. This narrative is repeated time and again in writings from the Middle Ages.

  • Herm

    Hisprisoner, read Zechariah again but this time realize that the prophesy is relative to Christ as the one LORD. Jerusalem means city of peace in spirit. God is spirit, not carnal. Children of God are children of spirit, not carnal.

    The Shepherd struck was Jesus and the sheep scattered His disciples; His siblings with, in and of God.

    Jesus is king over the whole earth and not only of a physical plot of land known as Israel, or a people who call themselves Jewish. God has no covenant, at all, that separates the Jew, from the Christian, from the Muslim, from the Hindi, or anyone within the whole of Man (to whom a spirit was graced in the image of God) since the covenant with Moses. The whole covenant of authority is with Christ Jesus and known for certain by the acceptance of the Holy Spirit.

    The LORD will be king over the whole earth. On that day there will be one LORD, and his name the only name.

    Zechariah 14:9 (NIV2011)

    Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

    Matthew 28:18-20 (NIV2011)

  • John

    I’m saying that the Arabs left of their own accord during or immediately before the war as a result of a combination of fear, encouragement from bordering Arab nations, and outside economic ties.

  • Eric11210

    You obviously never learned to read. I said the UK as in United Kingdom. Which is why I told you to learn to read but you obviously couldn’t be bothered.

    As for your other stupid lie, no they don’t. The homes of terrorists are sometimes destroyed because it’s intended to stop them from trying to blow up other people but stupid bleeding hearts like you don’t give a crap if Jews are killed just as long as your precious Palestinians are allowed to blow them up as much as they like.

  • The Happy Atheist

    They did not leave before the war, that much is certain. There were several waves of Arabs refugees fleeing the American-backed Israeli military between 1948 and 1973. That is not leaving “of their own accord” any more than you fleeing your home in the face of a foreign military invasion would be.

  • John

    By “before” I mean immediately before the Israeli counter attack.
    They left of their own accord as in Israel did not forcefully evict Arabs as a matter of fact. It’s a fundamentally different claim to say that the Arabs were displaced in normal course of the defensive Israeli war and saying that the Jews went house to house and forced the Arabs out.

  • apoxbeonyou

    Never been to Israel, have you? Hebron? Gaza? Bethlahem? K’far Yasif? No?

  • The Happy Atheist

    So, because the advancing army didn’t “officially” evict Palestinians means that they left of their own accord? While you are correct that the Arabs attacked first, which put Israel into the enviable position of being to justify everything it did subsequently as “defensive,” that radically mischaracterizes the reality of the situation. Jews had been illegally invading Palestine for at least the century prior to 1948, with no concern for the people who were already living there. Arab leaders gave warning after warning, clearly enunciating the fact that they would not allow the establishment of a Jewish state right in the middle of what had been Arab land for a couple of thousand years. Those warnings were ignored, and the Arab nations did exactly what they said they would do: they attacked Israel. So who is really responsible here? What would you do if you found yourself in the position the Arabs were in in 1948?

  • apoxbeonyou

    LMFAO. Oh. Best response, ever.

  • apoxbeonyou

    God loves gay/straight/transgender. Get over it.

  • Mikey

    And if you think Israel is backwards and racist, wait until you see her neighbors!!

  • apoxbeonyou

    That…is utter, arrogant, BS. This type of thinking is how religion has accomplished all manner of sins in the name of God.

    “Tough love” is not really love. Do you also support spousal abuse?

  • apoxbeonyou

    Have you ever been to Middle-eastern country?

  • Paul Julian Gould

    “I’m often wrong…
    It’s how I get to right.”

    character of Gil Grissom, CSI: Crime Scene Investigators.

  • Mary Burke

    So according to you what I wrote didn’t happen or didn’t have anything to do with it? “expelled from the Holy land” expelled or they left? Holy Land? Nothing holy about it in my eyes. Also, who in their right mind thinks to hold people responsible for their ancestors killing Jesus Christ?. I’m not a fan of religion. People need to get a clear understanding how religion evolved. Also, hasn’t Zionism used the holocaust of the 1940’s? No business like Shoah business as they say. Much history to review.

  • The Happy Atheist

    Oh, I’m no fan of religion either. Maybe you missed that in my moniker. I may have misunderstood your position. I thought you were arguing for the biblical position, but maybe I was mistaken?

  • The Happy Atheist

    I have the same question as @disqus_cP7jnQ45Dr:disqus. I’ve spent lots and lots of time all over the Middle East. My Arabic is pretty good, if I do say so myself (especially my Levant dialect!). What experiences have you had to justify your assertion? Or are you just parroting the bullshit you hear on Fox news?

  • Mary Burke

    Religion will be the death of us! I don’t mind people having religious beliefs but to think any of us must adhere to their beliefs is trouble.

  • The Happy Atheist

    My apologies, then. I misunderstood you. I completely agree with that statement.

  • Hisprisoner

    “Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.”
    ‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭6:9-10‬ ‭ESV‬‬

  • Hisprisoner

    Your language shows who your master is.

  • apoxbeonyou

    The actual word used is NOT ‘homosexuality’, it is ‘arsenokoites’. We don’t even know what that word means, so point invalid. It is most likely temple prostitution. Try again.

  • Hisprisoner

    Romans 1:27-32 KJV
    [27] And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. [28] And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; [29] Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, [30] Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, [31] Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: [32] Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

  • Hisprisoner
  • Hisprisoner

    Try again sodomite lover

  • apoxbeonyou

    In Romans 1, Paul was referencing a certain pagan religious activity: shrine prostitution. It has nothing to do with homosexuality. If you read the context of the entire passage, you’ll see Paul was addressing idolatry.

    Point invalid: try again.

  • apoxbeonyou

    I see; you are not Christ-like. Be blessed. However: blocked.

  • Hisprisoner

    You are not even a believer so you have no clue

  • Hisprisoner

    Thank you.

  • Ron McPherson

    Reminds me of a Tony Campolo quote,
    “I have three things I’d like to say today. First, while you were sleeping last night, 30,000 kids died of starvation or diseases related to malnutrition. Second, most of you don’t give a shit. What’s worse is that you’re more upset with the fact that I said shit than the fact that 30,000 kids died last night.”

  • Herm

    Why in your hell do you think your judgments hold any water to salve your pain by condemning others as you would have others condemn you?

  • Hisprisoner

    1 Corinthians 2:15 KJV
    [15] But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

  • Hisprisoner

    As you love cursing, let a curse come upon you.

  • Ron McPherson

    Where do you live?

  • Eric11210

    How about that I twice said UK, not US?

  • Herm

    All of the following witnessed quotations came directly from the mouth of Christ, our eternal Judge.

    “Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven. Give, and it will be given to you. A good measure, pressed down, shaken together and running over, will be poured into your lap. For with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.”

    He also told them this parable: “Can the blind lead the blind? Will they not both fall into a pit? The student is not above the teacher, but everyone who is fully trained will be like their teacher.

    “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, ‘Brother, let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when you yourself fail to see the plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.

    Luke 6:37-42 (NIV2011)

    So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

    Matthew 7:12 (NIV2011)

    Jesus replied: “ ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

    Matthew 22:37-40 (NIV2011)

    “Therefore, my friends, I want you to know that through Jesus the forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you. Through him everyone who believes is set free from every sin, a justification you were not able to obtain under the law of Moses. Take care that what the prophets have said does not happen to you: “ ‘Look, you scoffers, wonder and perish, for I am going to do something in your days that you would never believe, even if someone told you.’”

    Acts 13:38-41 (NIV2011)

    Do everything to others as Matthew 7:12 makes clear so that you abide in the sum of the law. Whatever is done solely between consensual adults is not yours to judge. This is the full quote you cite but in an English that you might understand more clearly:

    We do, however, speak a message of wisdom among the mature, but not the wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing. No, we declare God’s wisdom, a mystery that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began. None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

    However, as it is written: “What no eye has seen, what no ear has heard, and what no human mind has conceived”— the things God has prepared for those who love him— these are the things God has revealed to us by his Spirit. The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. For who knows a person’s thoughts except their own spirit within them? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.

    What we have received is not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may understand what God has freely given us. This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, explaining spiritual realities with Spirit-taught words.

    The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.

    The person with the Spirit makes judgments about all things, but such a person is not subject to merely human judgments, for, “Who has known the mind of the Lord so as to instruct him?” But we have the mind of Christ.

    1 Corinthians 2:6-16 (NIV2011)

    You are a prisoner in your own mind for you do not see to know and then accept the Advocate as my Judge related below:

    “If you love me, keep my commands. And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you. I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you. Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them.”

    John 14:15-21 (NIV2011)

    You condemn yourself and have no authority to condemn others.

    For if you forgive other people when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.

    Matthew 6:14-15 (NIV2011)

    Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.” And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”

    John 20:21-23 (NIV2011)

    Disciples of Christ, daughters and sons born of God today on earth, have the authority, given by Jesus with all authority in heaven and on earth, to forgive but not to condemn.

  • Ron McPherson

    My son is friends with a family who are not “Christian.” The mom got breast cancer and was told by a “Christian” that her cancer resulted from her unbelief. So needless to say that pushed the family away even farther. But her son started attending a youth group at my kids church only to then have the new youth minister essentially invite my son to leave because he heard he might be gay. This “unbelieving” family loves my son unconditionally. So why would they want to belong to “Christian” group who doesn’t? Needless to say that family wants no part of church and who could blame them? All they hear is that God made them sick cause they don’t have the correct belief system and that he won’t accept anybody who doesn’t toe the religious line. Pretty much everything that Jesus was NOT about.

  • Ron McPherson

    Oh no. Are you playing God again? Sorry, but that title is already taken. And way to go in just letting the whole point blow completely by you. I guess the shoe fit

  • Hisprisoner

    John 7:24 KJV
    [24] Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

  • It’s a disappointment to say the least how often ‘criticism of actions done by some people in the Israeli government’ and ‘opposition to Israel itself’ get conflated. Seriously. It’s not as if, say, people who condemned specific actions by President Barack Obama were somehow ‘anti-American’ and hated the U.S. in its entirety. This distinction is simple enough that even children will get it– saying ‘Dad is doing a bad job’ isn’t the same as ‘I hate Dad’.

    Flesh-and-blood humans make mistakes and do bad things. That’s humanity. That’s life.

  • Herm

    Are you serious? This is the whole text you quote:

    Jesus said to them, “I did one miracle, and you are all amazed. Yet, because Moses gave you circumcision (though actually it did not come from Moses, but from the patriarchs), you circumcise a boy on the Sabbath. Now if a boy can be circumcised on the Sabbath so that the law of Moses may not be broken, why are you angry with me for healing a man’s whole body on the Sabbath? Stop judging by mere appearances, but instead judge correctly.”

    John 7:21-24 (NIV2011)

    I know that your faith is shaken because you have not the Spirit of truth in you to be able to speak the word of God without your king james book. This does not justify your taking what you do have before you out of context to grant you authority.

    You worship a God of parchment exactly as did those who crucified the Son of God in the name of God according to their sincere interpretation of scripture. You are blind to the Spirit of God in your midst as were they with Jesus before them.

    I do ask my Father to forgive you for what you do not know you do. I cannot ask my Father for forgiveness for what, by your own judgment, you know you do to indulge your own self worth usurping the name and authority of the Lord my God.

  • which city have the freemasons taken over and executed people in?

  • Israel is a creation of the UN. , this is a load of baloney. While the UN voted for it, it was the Jews that founded Israel, no number of votes could do it.

    In actuality the UN expected the 5 Arab armies to complete the work of the holocaust, killing the vast majority of Jews in the holy land. They would have done nothing if that had happened. They only wanted a a cease fire when the Israelis were winning

    The Jews paid for the country with their blood.

  • quoting from the antisemitic NT proves nothing

  • Ahmed Asgher • the EXODUS IS FICTION.

  • Tutu seems to have had a brain fade

  • bus bombings aren’t jokes

  • Hisprisoner

    John 8:44-45 KJV
    [44] Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. [45] And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.

  • the Palestinians aren’t having a holocaust

  • Herm

    It is not a flesh-and-blood human mistake that the Jewish settlements have increase for many decades, under many Jewish Israeli elected governments, inside Palestinian territory. This is not criticism of actions done by just some. This is actually criticism for our elected government who sponsors and supports the atrocities attributed to the majority elected Israeli governments, the Israeli military and the Israeli citizens who invaded to establish permanent settlements on land that is not theirs to administer or settle, as per the United Nation covenant in 1947.

    Tribal traditionalism that destroys others justified by “our tribe is more favored in God’s eyes than your tribe” is not what disciples of Christ can condone; in fact we must hate:

    “If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters—yes, even their own life—such a person cannot be my disciple. And whoever does not carry their cross and follow me cannot be my disciple.

    Luke 14:26-27 (NIV2011)

  • Herm

    Sorry, your hollow incantations do not erase the Spirit of truth from the hearts and minds of Jesus’ siblings in God. quod vos non facitis

  • Hisprisoner
  • Mike

    The Americans pay for it with money. The only blood being spilled is that of Palestinians in Palestine.

  • Hisprisoner

    Nice calling the words of your creator hollow

  • Would require a brain for that to occur.

    Unfortunately Tutu is a typical liberal political activist, a pro-Sodomite, who wears a ‘holy’ patch over one eye. Many humanists drink from his teat in a fake crusade under the guise of ‘human rights.’

    An often debunked quote of freemason Tutu’s is sometimes used by the great unwashed. It arose from a visit Tutu had to Israel in 1989 prior to the Oslo Accords and before the establishment of palestinian authority.

    The Tutu quote —— obviously out-of-date and irrelevant nearly 30 years later.

    The depths humanists have to plumb for their enlightenment…tsk tsk

    Another Tutu statement – “I would refuse to go to a homophobic Heaven. No, I would say, ‘Sorry, I would much rather go to the other place,’”
    “I would not worship a God who is homophobic and that is how deeply I feel about this.”

    “And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
    And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;” (Romans 1:27-28)

  • Herm

    What does that have to do with your only example of what free and accepted masons do?

    I do not hate Freemasons or Muslims for the good each might do nor do I believe any group of people is free from those who would not do good. There have been many Masonic lodges, by no means all, who were purely Jewish and openly worked toward and supported Zionism. Many Christian Masons did get quite vocal with “Biblical support” of a Zionist state.

    Yes, I do have an idea and a vested interest in what Freemasons do.

  • Deist1737

    The fact that you can use the Bible to show we do not need to give blind support to Israel while other people can use the Bible to show that we do need to give blind support to Israel reminds me of this statement from the American founder and Deist Thomas Paine taken from The Age of Reason, The Complete Edition:

    “In your letter of the twentieth of March, you give me several quotations from the Bible, which you call the Word of God, to show me that my opinions on religion are wrong, and I could give you as many, from the same book to show that yours are not right; consequently, then, the Bible decides nothing, because it decides any way, and every way, one chooses to make it.”

    Having our thinking stuck in ancient texts which are loaded with many calls to religious violence is very dangerous living in a nuclear age. As Albert Einstein pointed out, if we want to survive in a nuclear age we must change our thinking.

    Personally I think Thomas Paine was right when in The Age of Reason he wrote that we need a revolution in religion based on our innate God-given reason and Deism. This will do a lot to improve our lives and society.

    Progress! Bob Johnson
    http://www.deism.com

  • Bill Guentner

    I think your reading [that is if you have] if faulty.

  • There are Masons who are Jewish. And Christian. And Muslim. The ranks of Freemasonry have included statesmen from Ben Franklin to Jesse Helms, musicians from composer Jean Sibelius to cowboy Gene Autry. Presidents Fillmore, Jackson, Taylor, Hoover and both Roosevelts were Masons.

    yes a Desperate world domineering cabal

  • Bill Guentner

    Shit is not a “curse”word. A curse is: “the expression of a wish that misfortune, evil, doom, etc., befall a person, group, etc. Shit is just what it is.

  • Herm

    You don’t know our creator God!

    Read and heed:

    Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I have come here from God. I have not come on my own; God sent me. Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me! Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don’t you believe me? Whoever belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.”

    John 8:42-47 (NIV2011)

    You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me, yet you refuse to come to me to have life.

    John 5:39-40 (NIV2011)

  • Herm

    “You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’ But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well. If anyone forces you to go one mile, go with them two miles. Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.

    “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

    Matthew 5:38-48 (NIV2011)

    This does not apply to you, only to the disciples of the Messiah, not of the bible, any version.

  • Herm

    So?

  • Ed Senter

    I find it interesting that super-spiritual Christians think they can determine what is godly or ungodly. If there is a God, God must be omnipotent or he ain’t god. Therefore, WHATEVER God does is good. It is clear to anyone with even a modicum of understanding that the Bible reveals that God is not done with Israel as a nation. If it is all spiritual, as the blogger suggests, then Jesus was a total failure and the books of the Bible are nonsense. The truth is God is in control.

  • Patrick Barton

    Genocide definition:

    the deliberate killing of a large group of people, especially those of a particular ethnic group or nation.

    Not what is going on over there. If it was, it would have been finished by 1970.

  • billwald

    Theologically, agree 100%. Dirt is not “holy.”

    On the other hand, Israel and South Africa may be the only friends the US can count on in all of Africa. Not that I know much about the other nations south of the Sand nations. The US seems to have a history of screwing our friends and helping our enemies.

  • billwald

    The Bible is like the Constitution in that everyone believes in them but only I and (can’t think of his name) know what they mean.

  • Suren

    Israel is allied with and sells weapons to Azerbaijan, the country that wants nothing more than to obliterate Armenia, the first Christian country, off the map. So what’s an Armenian supposed to think of a country that is allied with their sworn enemy, and is making the bullets that kill Armenian soldiers?

  • The difficulty is that a mis-used quote from Tutu is bandied about in a smoke and mirror attempt to create the illusion of apartheid in Israel.

    Tutu last visited Israel in 1989, four years prior to the Oslo Accords and before the Palestinian Authority was established.

    Therefore his apartheid opinion is nearly 30 years out of date and irrelevant in todays geopolitical climate.

    Other statements from freemason Tutu include
    “I would refuse to go to a homophobic Heaven.
    No, I would say, ‘Sorry, I would much rather go to the other place,’”
    “I would not worship a God who is homophobic and that is how deeply I feel about this.”
    “After all, God is not a Christian.”

  • John David Lindsey

    Thanks for a great article. You put my many thoughts into words

  • Mike

    Eilat Israel is the departure for Caspian crude bound for Asia. Baku Azerbaijan is where it is received when it comes out of the ground. Both countries have an interest in making sure no other nation on the Caspian shore can receive and transport oil. It would break there monopoly.

  • Ron McPherson

    “It is clear to anyone with even a modicum of understanding that the Bible reveals that God is not done with Israel as a nation. ”

    Dallas Theological grads and Scofieldites maybe. Not so much the rest of the Christian world. Not a criticism but this is far from a universal Christian belief.

  • Valkyrie Ziege

    ; All the Jews occupying ‘Israel’ should be re-located in Detroit, and outside of the improvement, they’ll never know the difference.
    Without Jews to blame, Muhammadans will, truly, be shown for what they are, bronze-age throwbacks, continuing to fight the Crusades, and who refuse to realize they lost the ‘Battle of Tours’.

  • Valkyrie Ziege

    ; That story has been proven false via scientific archeology, not the oxymoron of ‘Biblical Archaeology’.
    Holy books aren’t history books, nor are they scientific texts.

  • “The entire “stand with Israel” theology is based on one verse, and the verse had nothing to do with any modern nation state born a few thousand years later.”

    Neat. That sounds like most of Christian theology.

  • Barrie Beaumont

    An interesting article but with respect, perhaps a little on the inflamatory side given that most is your opinion and is not supported by reference to other experts. I suggest unless a reader is completely up with the history and the present which I am not, then it is difficult to come up with an appropriate in depth response. I do understand your intent.

    I am in the process of studying Israel, the history and the present and when you quoted Romans 9:6 I went to my commentary resources, including an exegetical on Romans and found that there is much more depth to this subject than you covered, or could cover in the space, or motive of your article. That is why I chose the words “a little on the inflamatory side.

    Your article has brought out both emotion and well intentioned comments as well as some that do not contribute. I hope that others have been prompted to dig deeper and understand what Paul intendended in Rom.9:6 and not be surface readers.

  • Bashir Abueid

    I’m not from any part of Israel. I’m Palestinian from the town of the Nativity, the suffering town of Bethlehem.

  • Bashir Abueid

    We couldn’t possible demand more than that. Your wages are in heaven.

  • Bones

    Someone’s still fighting the Crusades….

    Btw the crusades were known for slaughtering Jews as well..

  • Bones

    So if the Jews had called their western secular democracy Zionland that wouldn’t be in the Bible.

    God has no interest in nations.

    They are artificial constructs.

    God is interested in injustice.

  • Bones

    Your words how that you are no follower of Jesus Christ.

    You are a complete charlatan.

  • Bones

    You’re as dumb as dogshit…..hang on that’s an insult to dogshit.

  • Bones

    You need look no further than the history of anti-semitism in Germany fuelled by German Christianity.

    So no, none of that has anything to do with it.

  • Hisprisoner

    Your replies show your intelligence and who your master is.

  • Bones

    Your replies show who your master is….you are controlled by demons who rejoice in the suffering of others.

  • Bones

    Israel just needs more liebensraum.

  • Bones

    Yawn….Tutu knows and has lived through apartheid…you, keyboard hero, know nothing.

  • Bones

    You are a brainfart.

  • Bones

    It’s not a misused quote.

    This is another example of fake news and alternative facts.

    I wasn’t aware 2014 was 30 years ago.

    But that shows how stupid your propaganda is.

  • Bones

    Lol….what a complete wanker you are.

    If only you had a brain….

    Great quotes by Tutu as well.

    Thanks for showing why Tutu is the better human than you are (a no name keyboard hero who does nothing for anyone)….and why Tutu is a true follower of Christ and you’re just an empty shallow charlatan who spits out Bible verses but knows nothing.

  • Bones

    What rights do Palestinians have?

  • Bones

    Apparently any criticism of the modern secular democratic state of Israel means you are a Nazi wanting the death of all Jews.

  • Kevin R. Cross

    Yes. I understand why the founders of Israel did it, and that it both made sense and was the compassionate thing to do at the time. But it is perhaps a policy that needs reviewing.

  • Duh!

    Perhaps a comprehension lesson is in order.

    Tutu was last in Israel in 1989. Period. – comprehendo?

    The quote clearly states what he WITNESSED at that time – are you still there?

    When assisting South Africa in marking “Israeli Apartheid Week” in 2014 – Tutu again regurgitated his previous out of date experience (1989) as a quote.

    The Tutu quote was reprinted in Israeli newspapers so other peasants could benefit from some fake enlightenment.

    Unfortunately for you Sir – these facts cannot be twisted. Your apology is accepted. Funny huh!

  • Bones

    Count Bernadotte, the United Nations Security Council mediator in the Arab–Israeli conflict of 1947–1948,

    “It is … undeniable that no settlement can be just and complete if recognition is not accorded to the right of the Arab refugee to return to the home from which he has been dislodged by the hazards and strategy of the armed conflict between Arabs and Jews in Palestine. The majority of these refugees have come from territory which … was to be included in the Jewish State. The exodus of Palestinian Arabs resulted from panic created by fighting in their communities, by rumours concerning real or alleged acts of terrorism, or expulsion. It would be an offence against the principles of elemental justice if these innocent victims of the conflict were denied the right to return to their homes while Jewish immigrants flow into Palestine, and, indeed, at least offer the threat of permanent replacement of the Arab refugees who have been rooted in the land for centuries”

    What happened to Bernadotte?

  • Matthew

    Not many apparently …

  • Struggling a little today are we?

    Brimming with self-projection

    Thank you for your time. Will take heed to the Scriptures and retire.
    “Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.” (Matthew 7:6)

  • Bones

    Lol

    Tutu and Carter visited Shimon Peres….in 2015.

    http://www.kostube.tk/group-of-elder-statesmen-incl-carter-and-tutu-meet-israeli-president-during-visit.html

    And while they were there visited Palestinian families which had been evicted

    Carter, Tutu visits site where Palestinian families were evicted

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUiWKTacc7w

    Liar, liar, pants on fire.

    You’re excused if you don’t come back.

    You’ve been exposed for the liar you are..

  • Bones

    Lol….

    It’s you who is struggling… with the truth…liar

    What a pathetic specimen of humanity you are.

    Honestly denigrating a great human being because of your own ideology.

    What a disgraceful merkin you are.

    That’s why you fall for lies.

    You don’t follow Christ at all.

  • Bones

    Do people not see the difference between Israeli Arabs and Palestinians?

  • Bones

    God’s not interested in Nationalism.

    Stop projecting your nonsense onto God.

  • Bones

    Ron, I was there when my brother’s wife told my sister that her husband and my friends decapitation by a bus was God’s Will.

  • Bones

    What you believe is complete garbage.

    I don’t hold any religion, nation or ethnicity as special.

    Neither does God go around destroying nations which btw are an artificial construct- heck look at how nations have changed in Europe over the past 100 years.

    Do you believe the holocaust was God’s judgement against the Jews?

    It’s the same thing.

  • Bones

    Lol….well for starters it didn’t happen…secondly it had nothing to do with gay sex…thirdly, you’re an idiot.

  • Speak for yourself – you have only a poor humanistic view of God….extremely limiting.

    “For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord.
    For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.” (Isaiah 55:8-9)

    When the Scriptures state….’nation will rise against nation’ – your interpretation is what exactly

  • Bones

    And that term was understood in the first century to refer to temple prostitution. We know this from Philo’s writings.

    Bad luck for you in trying to project your hatred of gays onto God.

  • Bones

    Romans 2:1

    “Therefore you have no excuse, everyone of you who passes judgment, for in that which you judge another, you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things.”

    You like a bit of gay sex too, do ya?

  • Oh so true….Tutu did return. My error, of which I am man enough to own up to…..such is our contrast.

    As I said – Tutu declared his overused quote much much earlier……so keep digging.

    Just a quick internet search shows he was using his worn out quote in public during 2008 – which according to simple arithmetic – would be prior to your heralded 2015 visit. Yaah!

    But keep going – never fear, you will get there eventually

  • Bones

    You never even had a case.

  • Bones

    The Palestinians have refused any state offer that:

    1) Divides them between West Bank and Gaza. Or whenever West Bank was included only without Gaza.
    2) Does not solve the refugee issue.
    3) Does not solve the Jerusalem issue.

  • “When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.” (1 Corinthians 13:11)

  • Hisprisoner

    Psalm 109:1-20 KJV
    [1] Hold not thy peace, O God of my praise; [2] For the mouth of the wicked and the mouth of the deceitful are opened against me: they have spoken against me with a lying tongue. [3] They compassed me about also with words of hatred; and fought against me without a cause. [4] For my love they are my adversaries: but I give myself unto prayer. [5] And they have rewarded me evil for good, and hatred for my love. [6] Set thou a wicked man over him: and let Satan stand at his right hand. [7] When he shall be judged, let him be condemned: and let his prayer become sin. [8] Let his days be few; and let another take his office. [9] Let his children be fatherless, and his wife a widow. [10] Let his children be continually vagabonds, and beg: let them seek their bread also out of their desolate places. [11] Let the extortioner catch all that he hath; and let the strangers spoil his labour. [12] Let there be none to extend mercy unto him: neither let there be any to favour his fatherless children. [13] Let his posterity be cut off; and in the generation following let their name be blotted out. [14] Let the iniquity of his fathers be remembered with the Lord ; and let not the sin of his mother be blotted out. [15] Let them be before the Lord continually, that he may cut off the memory of them from the earth. [16] Because that he remembered not to shew mercy, but persecuted the poor and needy man, that he might even slay the broken in heart. [17] As he loved cursing, so let it come unto him: as he delighted not in blessing, so let it be far from him. [18] As he clothed himself with cursing like as with his garment, so let it come into his bowels like water, and like oil into his bones. [19] Let it be unto him as the garment which covereth him, and for a girdle wherewith he is girded continually. [20] Let this be the reward of mine adversaries from the Lord , and of them that speak evil against my soul.

  • Bones

    It’s ok.

    I understand your need to lie about others.

    It’s part of your ideology.

    Of course Tutu has been to Palestine many times…..helping the Anglican clergy for starters.

  • Bones

    We’ve seen what your nationalistic ideology does.

    It causes people to lie about others to promote nationalistic causes.

    It’s called propaganda.

    Well done for showing that. And charlatans quoting Bible verses means nothing to anyone.

    God isn’t interested in nations which are artificial humanistic (lol) constructs.

    Go sort yourself out.

  • Matthew

    I didn´t really consider the difference until you brought it up yesterday. I even thought about it more today. Thanks Bones.

  • Bones

    Lol…here’s another one….2009….

    Carter, Tutu among ‘Elders’ visiting Israel, West Bank

    Ramallah – Ma’an – Former US and Irish Presidents Jimmy Carter and Mary Robinson, as well as South African Archbishop Emeritus Desmond Tutu and other international luminaries, visited Qalandiya Refugee Camp in the West Bank city of Ramallah on Wednesday.

    http://www.maannews.com/Content.aspx?id=221739

    What’s 2009-2008????

    Looks like you’ll just have to launch personal attacks on Tutu instead of just straight out lying.

    You like lying about others don’t you?

  • Matthew

    Nothing special about them??? They were created by God, they hold the image of God, and Jesus died for them as well.

  • Bones

    Whoops, Tutu was in Gaza 2008

    “Archbishop Tutu and professor Chinkin were in Gaza on a UN fact-finding mission into the killing of 19 Palestinian civilians in a 2006 Israeli artillery attack.”

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2008-05-29/tutu-blasts-international-complicity-over-gaza/2453302

  • Strongs119

    Contemporary Jews are not related by blood to the biblical 12 Tribes of Israel. “Modern Jewry” is comprised of Edomite converts to Judaism, as a result of Hasmonean leader Johanan Hyrcanus’ forcibly converting [Edom/Idumea] to Judaism [130BC], recorded by historian Flavius Josephus in, “Antiquities of the Jews”, Book 13: Chapter 9, Section 1.

    http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0146%3Abook%3D13%3Awhiston+chapter%3D9%3Awhiston+section%3D1

    “Hyrcanus took also Dora, and Marissa, cities of Idumea, and subdued all the Idumeans; and permitted them to stay in that country, if they would circumcise their genitals, and make use of the laws of the Jews; and they were so desirous of living in the country of their forefathers, that they submitted to the use of circumcision, and of the rest of the Jewish ways of living; at which time therefore this befel them, that they were hereafter no other than Jews.”

  • Ron McPherson

    Ugh…can’t imagine

  • Bones

    Better tell that to your settler mates.

  • Strongs119

    The Edomites were conquered by John Hycarnus who forcibly converted them to Judaism, and from then on they constituted a part of the Jewish people, Herod being one of their descendants.” [The Standard Jewish Encyclopedia, New Revised Edition, 1966]

    “Strictly speaking it is incorrect to call an Ancient Israelite a Jew or to call a contemporary Jew an Israelite or a Hebrew.” ~ (See page 3 of the 1980 Jewish Almanac).

    The biblical 12 tribes of Israel DESCEND FROM JACOB, [renamed “Israel” by God in Genesis 35:10], son of Isaac, Son of Abraham. Jacob’s brother ESAU, who is hated by God, Romans 9:13, took Canaanite wives Genesis 36:1-5, and FATHERED THE EDOMITES, Genesis 36:9. Obadiah prophesies their complete destruction in Obadiah 1:9 and Obadiah 1:18. The Holocaust can be viewed in the above context.

  • Bones

    They’re a calvinist.

    Their god hates you.

  • Bones

    That’s why I’m judging you as the opposite of Christ.

  • Bones

    Are you blaming Jews for the holocaust?

  • Would that be before or after your assumed date of 2014?

    Is that prior or after Tutu published his quote on 14 March 2007?

    Back to the coal face slave boy

  • Bones

    But using texts from circa 500BCE does?

  • Bones

    Lol….I see your Aryan Jesus.

    Now f##k off, Nazi.

  • Bones

    Then it says they were dispersed from it…..

    Funny that an atheist quotes the Bible for their own nationalistic ideology.

  • Bones

    Yeah good point…….which is that Israel is a perpetual occupying force.

  • Bones

    That’s funny from an atheist who uses the Bible to justify Israeli oppression.

  • Barrie Beaumont

    Please allow me to correct you Ahmed.The true Israelites were descendants of Jacob and his sons who were invited by the Pharoah to whom Jacob’s second youngest son Joseph was “vizier” to live in Egypt.

    Initially the Israelites were accepted until the Pharoah became concerned that their numbers were too great so he made them into slaves.

    Moses never “enticed” the Israelites as you state. The Pharoah had no intention of letting his slaves go and the Book of Exodus, the second book of “The Torah” is the only record of the Israelites leaving Egypt. It was God who caused the Ten Plagues to fall upon Egypt to force Pharoah to let His people go and it was God who instructed Moses and Aaron on how to lead the Israelites out of Egypt.

    God never intended Moses to set foot in the promised land and he told him so.

    I suggest that you read Exodus because what you have written is so far from the truth that it is amounts to both dishonesty and misrepresentation.

    The Cannanites were Baal, idol worshippers and that is why God had them wiped out before the Israelites were allowed to enter less they fall into the same ways. God was, and is very protective of his people.

    I have answered you intelligently and without hate but with sympathy that you would go on a rant such as you have when you could have easily read the only recorded history which is contained in the Jewish “Torah” and the Old Testament of the Christian Bible.

  • Strongs119

    “Modern Jewry” does not descend from the biblical 12 Tribes of Israel, present-day Jews descend from Edomite converts to Judaism, read and learn. Jewish Virtual Library is the most comprehensive online Jewish encyclopaedia in the world, covering everything from anti-Semitism to Zionism. There are more than 16,000 articles and 7,000 photographs and maps that have been integrated into the site. Google: “Idumea/Edom Jewish Virtual Library” on this article it states: “The distinction between Edomites and Jews was blurred by Johanan Hyrcanus’ forced conversion of [Edom] Idumea to Judaism in 130BC. During the 1st c. BC. Pressure by the Arab Nabateans pushed the territory of the Edomites to within 15 miles of Jerusalem.http://www[DOT]jewishvirtuallibrary[DOT]org/jsource/Society_&_Culture/geo/edom%5BDOT%5Dhtml

    Apostle John describes these imposters who “say they are Jews, and are not” as the “synagogue of Satan” in (Revelation 2:9, Revelation 3:9).

  • Hisprisoner

    Matthew 7:6 KJV
    [6] Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

  • Barrie Beaumont

    Bones why do you comment and respond as harshly as you do and with short sharp statements that you do not back up. Your coarse language is nothing to be proud about and certainly lowers the standard of this and other forums.

    I seriously wonder at the tone that passes between some of you as it appears to border on nastiness and I don’t think that is what we are about.

    I am appealing to not just you, but others to show some civility. How about it.

  • Strongs119

    A description of the Lord Jesus Christ given by Revelation 1:14 “His HEAD and his hairs were WHITE like wool, as WHITE as SNOW; and his eyes were as a flame of fire;” (note: Head includes face).

    Oxford dictionary definition of ruddy. Ruddy: adjective. (of a person’s face) having a healthy red colour: https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/ruddy

    The ancient Israelites of the bible are described as being “White” and “Ruddy”, in Revelation 1:14, Lamentations 4:7, 1 Samuel 16:12, 1 Samuel 17:42, and the Song of Solomon 5:10-15. You can also read an eyewitness account of Jesus Christ by Roman Consul Publius Lentulus called the “Letter of Lentulus” at this link, where Jesus Christ’s face is described as being, “without spot or wrinkle, beautified with a comely red, his eyes gray, clear and quick.” https://commons.orthodoxwiki.org/images/c/cf/Anon-Publius_Lentulus.jpg

  • Bones

    Except the Middle East is unique due to the chaotic and insane division of the Middle East after WW1 which failed to take into account religion, ethnicity, tribal and cultural values and created artificial arbitrary ‘states’ which has led to the f**k up we’re seeing in the Middle East.. We only need to look at the chaotic division of the Kurdish people.

    A large Kurdish population—today numbering perhaps 25 million—was divided between four states: Turkey, Iran, Iraq, and Syria. Shiite Arabs were split between Iraq, Kuwait, Bahrain, and the eastern provinces of Saudi Arabia. The Alawites, a heterodox Shiite Arab sect, reside today along the northern Lebanese, Syrian, and southwestern Turkish coasts. The Druze were distributed between today’s Israel, Lebanon, and Syria. Lebanon, supposedly a Christian redoubt, included large Sunni and Shiite populations, as well as Alawites and Druze. Sunni Arabs, who formed the dominant population of the Middle East, were divided into numerous states. Pockets of Turkomen, Circassians, Assyrians, Yazidis, and Chaldeans were isolated throughout. At the dawn of the 21st century, minority ethnic groups ruled Iraq, Lebanon, Syria, and Bahrain, often repressively.

    Heck we can see it now with insurgents from Kurds, Sunni, Shiites, Alawites fighting each other.

    But hey it was carved up so Empires could have their own patch of influence in the Middle East.

    If you’re going back 100 years that would involve the blood of minorities in African, Asian and Latin American European countries as well.

    Go back 150 years and that includes the US, Australia and most of the known world.

    I thought Iran was under sanctions until recently…..

    Maybe we need to go Iraq on it.

    Or maybe the free market will stop it.

    The point is Christians aren’t mindlessly supporting Iran’s policies in the Middle East like they are Israel which has been given a divine mandate to do whatever the f##k it wants and is openly supported by Christians.

    There’s plenty of other shithouse countries around the world as well. Burma’s pretty shithouse too. So is North Korea.

    As for your US allies – you’re funny, shiites are discriminated against in Saudi Arabia, the propagator of extremist Islam. Jews aren’t allowed in Saudi Arabia AT ALL (including during Iraq Wars 1 and 2 – the US made fake Protestant ID discs for Jewish servicemen), yet Iran has Jewish members of parliament.

    Go figure.

  • Bones

    Yeah that’s about you.

    You are swine.

  • Bones

    The only one masquerading as anything is you.

    A complete and utter charlatan and a liar.

  • Bones

    Nope.

    We’ve heard this all before…in 1930s Germany.

    Get lost , Adolf.

  • Bones

    Still reading Mein Kampf?

    Take your Aryan garbage elsewhere.

  • Hisprisoner

    Psalm 11:5 KJV
    [5] The Lord trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth.

  • Bones

    Except its not history.

    There’s that small flaw in your argument.

  • Strongs119

    You would likely label “Antiquities of the Jews” by Flavius Josephus as “Mein Kampf” because it records the forced conversion of the Edomite race to Judaism and its absorption among Jewry.

    Hasmonean leader Johanan Hyrcanus’ forcibly converted [Edom/Idumea] to Judaism [130BC], as recorded by historian Flavius Josephus in, “Antiquities of the Jews”, Book 13: Chapter 9, Section 1.

    http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0146%3Abook%3D13%3Awhiston+chapter%3D9%3Awhiston+section%3D1

    “Hyrcanus took also Dora, and Marissa, cities of Idumea, and subdued all the Idumeans; and permitted them to stay in that country, if they would circumcise their genitals, and make use of the laws of the Jews; and they were so desirous of living in the country of their forefathers, that they submitted to the use of circumcision, and of the rest of the Jewish ways of living; at which time therefore this befel them, that they were hereafter no other than Jews.”

    The Ancient Greek geographer Strabo, writing around the time of Christ, stated that Edomites [Idumeans in Greek] constituted the majority of the population of Western Judea. [See, Strabo, Geography Bk.16.2.34] http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0239%3Abook%3D16%3Achapter%3D2%3Asection%3D34

  • Strongs119

    Matthew 10:14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.

  • apoxbeonyou

    Thank you. I was just curious. My wife is Palestinian but before we married she lived in northern Israel near Haifa. She has family in Bethlehem and I have visited. It is definitely suffering.

  • apoxbeonyou

    Stay here awhile and read some more of his blogs. I think you’ll understand why he writes with such ‘bite’.

  • apoxbeonyou

    Wow. FYI: It doesn’t matter if Jesus was “white” or not, all that matters is if you live like he did. You are spending your life preaching the wrong message. You should be preaching love, although, acting it out is much harder than trying convert others to the Jesus-was-caucasian gospel. But we believe in you. Come follow the narrow road and love your enemy.

  • apoxbeonyou

    Bones is not actually known for only short statements. It normally depends on who the other person is. In this case, it’s worth it. I had to block that guy after I engaged with him and saw how awful some of his opinions were. Bones, however, is braver than I am and still engages.

    Kudos, Bones :)

  • Barrie Beaumont

    If it is not a historical record in your opinion what is it then?

  • Barrie Beaumont

    Well I still believe that civility should predominate and the coarse language should be terminated by the moderator.

  • Strongs119

    Matthew 15:24 “But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” ♦ What happened to the 12 Tribes of Israel? ~ Professor E. Raymond CAPT. https://youtu.be/33DC4UatExo

    “MIGRATIONS OF ISRAEL” BY RAYMOND CAPT M.A, A.I.A. (The Archaeological Institute of America) http://www.keithhunt.com/Solomontemple8.html

    Strong’s Exhaustive Bible Concordance defines “Adam” as meaning to “show blood (in the face), i.e. Flush or turn rosy — be (dyed, made) red (ruddy).” http://www.kingjamesbibledictionary.com/StrongsNo/H119/dyed%20red

    Ruddy, flushing, turning rosy, — These are physical characteristics associated with White people. Thus Adam is a white male, and Eve, being created from Adam’s rib [Genesis 2:22] is White, therefore Adam and Eve’s descendants are white, this includes Noah, and his sons Shem, Ham, and Japheth, who repopulated the earth with the Adamic race, which the bible is dedicated to.

    Genesis 5:1This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;”

  • apoxbeonyou

    Belief noted.

  • apoxbeonyou

    None of this matters. But have fun posting fake news. Blocking this racist crap from my feed.

  • Jeff Preuss

    You don’t actually engage; you repeatedly post screeds. But, nothing in your comment history shows an interest in actually participating in conversation.
    Anti-semitic-looking alt-right conspiracy theory nonsense, however, you’ve got in spades.

  • Dear Brother Bashir,
    We understand your pain and there are many of us, primarily from the Historicist School of prophecy, who do not believe in Zionism. As I continue to study the prophets, I see two Last Day movements occurring at the same time:
    1) A military/political movement, under the guise of religion, seeking to gain control of the Middle East and the literal holy mountain, Mount Moriah in Jerusalem. Daniel 11 spells out these events in great detail (see Daniel 11:36-45).
    2) A primarily spiritual movement in which the Messiah replaces the literal mountain (Isaiah 2:2) and temple (John 2:19) and draws peoples of many different ethnic and religious backgrounds to faith in God.

  • As I continue to study the prophets, I see two Last Day movements occurring at the same time:
    1) A military/political movement, under the guise of religion, seeking to gain control of the Middle East and the literal holy mountain, Mount Moriah in Jerusalem. Daniel 11 spells out these events in great detail (see Daniel 11:36-45).
    2) A primarily spiritual movement in which the Messiah replaces the literal mountain (Isaiah 2:2) and temple (John 2:19) and draws peoples of many different ethnic and religious backgrounds to faith in God.

  • That is correct. See Galatians 3:28,29

  • Yes!

  • Agree!

  • Yes! Give me Jesus without the Western Christian Baggage!

  • I understand why you dislike the Prophet Daniel, because he predicted the coming of the Messiah, his being “cut off” and the subsequent destruction of Jerusalem (Daniel 9:24-26)

  • Agree! Give me Jesus without the Western Christian Zionist Baggage!

  • Valkyrie Ziege

    ; Yep. Same fight over whose invisible friend
    brings in the most magical wishes.

  • gimpi1

    I missed that. You’re right in that. However, the UK is not a democratic republic, it’s a democratic constitutional monarchy. That’s why I made that mistake. You don’t have to be such a snot about it. I wasn’t rude to you, now was I?

  • gimpi1

    What I said wasn’t a lie. They do subject one group to guilt-by-association punishment. Their intention is not relevant, its’ simply not a reasonable thing to do, ever. As to crime, I would point out that their prime minister was assassinated by a Jewish settler, and his family was not subject to punishment.

    No civilized nation punishes the family of a criminal for the crime, ever.

    But, since you are rude and engage in name-calling and stupid insults, you don’t care about civilized behavior. Fine, I won’t bother with any further engagement.

  • Jeff Preuss

    Nothing Strongs has shared reads like capital-T “Truth,” though. Hence, it doesn’t even qualify as that expression of love.

  • guerillasurgeon

    Er… no. But obviously the formal meaning of the word escapes YOU.

  • mikeharrison

    I think combative not inflammatory and it needs to be combative since there are so many who choose to misuse the Bible to ignore state violence in this instance. I’m not sure who the other others are that you mention as experts.

  • Jeff Preuss

    Are you drawing quite a leap of a conclusion from my statement? Yes, yes you are.

    I am reiterating what I said before – strong’s posts are nothing but long, thinly-veiled bigoted screeds. You claiming they count as ‘love’ because they are ‘truth’ does nothing to negate the wrong message of strong’s words…despite factual validity of some of his cited sources.

  • apoxbeonyou

    An exaggerated coming-of-age story, is my guess. It can’t be 100% accurate if it were written almost a thousand years later.

  • apoxbeonyou

    There is no ‘truth’ in trying to prove that Jesus was Aryan. Not sure what point you are trying to make…

  • apoxbeonyou

    So you think Jesus was Caucasian? Who the hell cares if he was? Does it not matter more about the MESSAGE and the LIFE he lived? Who gives two short and curlies to what his appearance was? Missing the forest for the trees….

  • the Bible makes no mention of the Diaspora, it was finished before that. Perhaps you are confused about the Babylonian Captivity ?

  • Rockets and bus bombings and now knife and car attacks say you’re lying

  • the “canaanites”, became the Jews and Baal and Yahu were two names for basically the same god

  • the Egyptians actually were “Occupiers” in Canaan during the supposed time of the exodus. and Moses is really derived from Ahmose, who expelled the Hyksos and Ramose II who fought the Hittites at the Orontes river from where we get the “song of the sea”

  • Herm , there are no OT prophesies of Jesus. what the OT does say is that the women were weeping for Tammuz, the Babylonian/Canaanite agricultural god who dies in the spring and gets reborn in the winter

  • Strongs is camelfarts

  • “Matthew” was a writer of tall tales and the book was a work in progress for centuries

  • Strong Genetics say you’re fullabaloney

  • the Edomites were a neighboring tribe having the same west Semitic roots

  • Hey all the pictures I’ve seen of Jesus make him look English

  • Jesus is a hoax

  • Mike

    Those are things you would use if your oppressors were dropping white phosphorus on you after stealing your land.

  • John

    What do you mean by “what happened” to him? He was a Swedish noble and US assignee who gave his personal opinion on the matter. It wasn’t some long researched statement.

  • Herm

    Bafoofkit, interesting that you are so confident in and proud of your self disciplined studies that you have made the most scholarly biblical blunder possible in the understanding of the Lamb’s blood. The entire tabernacle/temple design was a prophesy of Jesus. As long as the veil was intact so was the covenant of God with Moses. When the veil was rent the covenant with Moses was torn up with it and the Holy Spirit was made available in spirit to all who could see to accept Him. The temple was rebuilt in three days after Jesus gave up His spirit. The covenant of God, Father to Son, now rests eternally in the Lord Christ Jesus who has all authority in heaven and on earth. The Advocate speaks for all of God; the daughters, the sons, the mother, the Father and His only begotten Son of Man/Son of God. God is pluralistic projecting as one only in the Spirit bound in all love.

    Pagan beliefs are okay for mankind, as long as in everything we do to others as we would have others do to us, but in them lies no relationship immersed in the Spirit of truth. Only with the Teacher in you, you in the Messiah, and the Messiah in you can you then learn beyond the traditions, rituals, theologies and doctrines of Man. At this point, by your fruit, it appears that you are on your own.

  • Jay Hoyt Rodgers

    Regarding point #2, I was taught that the HEBEW (maybe not the Greek) used in Genesis 12:3 referred to PHYSICAL progeny and could not be used as a reference to “spiritual progeny” — disregarding the Christian Bible scriptures quoted. This was used by my teacher as an argument to debunk the christian doctrine of Supersessionism. If Supersessionism is true, then God is a liar and an oath breaker — can’t be.

  • Mary Burke

    No I am not I just stated some history. How did you get to that? I was replying to: The reason for the holocaust was thousands of years of Christian anti-semitism.

  • Kathy Ruth

    Just because the process is slower doesn’t mean the end result won’t be the same!
    http://www.4thmedia.org/2017/01/israels-never-ending-crimes-its-not-just-settlements-its-a-slow-motion-genocide/

  • Kathy Ruth
  • Kathy Ruth

    Here’s a search engine page of those suspended from the Knesset:
    https://www.google.com/#q=No+MK+has+ever+been+suspended+from+the+Knesset&*

  • Herm

    Barrie, below is more depth in regards to Romans 9:6 all from the pen of Paul, except one by the author of Luke/Acts as an example of the living word of God

    It is not as though God’s word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham’s children. On the contrary, “It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.” In other words, it is not the children by physical descent who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham’s offspring. For this was how the promise was stated: “At the appointed time I will return, and Sarah will have a son.”

    Romans 9:6-9 (NIV2011)

    For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. Nothing in all creation is hidden from God’s sight. Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account.

    Hebrews 4:12-13 (NIV2011)

    After they prayed, the place where they were meeting was shaken. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and spoke the word of God boldly.

    Acts 4:31 (NIV2011)

    A person is not a Jew who is one only outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. No, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a person’s praise is not from other people, but from God.

    Romans 2:28-29 (NIV2011)

    Those who want to impress people by means of the flesh are trying to compel you to be circumcised. The only reason they do this is to avoid being persecuted for the cross of Christ. Not even those who are circumcised keep the law, yet they want you to be circumcised that they may boast about your circumcision in the flesh. May I never boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world. Neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything; what counts is the new creation. Peace and mercy to all who follow this rule—to the Israel of God.

    Galatians 6:12-16 (NIV2011)

    Everything we read relative to the new Jerusalem, Israel of God, children of God and any worship since Jesus rose, and the temple rebuilt in three days with Him, must be understood in the context of spirit (the image of God who is spirit) and not anything physically earth bound.

    This testified to by John as directly from the mouth of Christ spoken to a Samaritan woman:

    Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”

    John 4:23-24 (NIV2011)

    Since the curtain was torn top to bottom at Jesus giving up His spirit there has been no covenant of Moses. The Jewish temple had already lost the ark that was meant to be behind that curtain but had not yet lost the Holy Spirit until that moment. The salvation Christ brought was through immersion in the Holy Spirit to be born a child of God no longer subject to the will of mankind, only to the will of our Father.

    Disciples of the Messiah are bound only by the covenant between our Father and His only begotten Son that bestowed forever more all authority in heaven and on earth upon our Lord Christ Jesus.

    There is much more to learn, an eternity’s worth, that we can only learn from within the Messiah and the Messiah in us. This cannot be taught from a pulpit, or any physical holy source, but only in our hearts and minds of spirit.

    I am not the Teacher. Ben is not the Teacher. We are young pupils speaking the word of God as we are taught. We are not alone and neither are we special. God’s will is that we all, of mankind in Their image, choose to come to accept Their love born as family in the Spirit today.

    Fighting over plots of earthly land in the name of God is not God’s will.

    Continuing to love even the blind combatants is the perfect will of our heavenly Father while simultaneously speaking out against the divisive spirit supporting the combat.

  • Herm

    Study up on the Fertile Crescent before you spew your hate upon all us descendants of hunter gatherers spread around the earth at the metaphorical time of Adam and Eve. We are one mankind in the image of one God.

  • Herm

    Barrie, is it by what Jesus has taught you that “civility” is defined or the traditions of your tribe within the species of mankind? They are not the same. You might want to study up on the lack of civility directed at self appointed authorities through the word “woe“, a consideration of grieving before death.

  • Mary Burke

    Actually all of it does matter.

  • Barrie Beaumont

    Herm, with respect you may, but I cannot see any gainful reason to extend this beyond my suggestion of maintaining civility by some contributors to this forum.

    My Oxford dictionary (I’m an Aussie) defines civility as being polite and courteous.

    To answer your question Herm, yes Jesus and I was raised by my parents to be the same and respectful.

  • Patrick Barton

    Kathy,

    There are more Palestinian Arabs today than 1967, get into reality.

    I will say this , I share your feelings and the OPs feelings about Israeli treatment of the Arabs in East Jerusalem and the WB and at the same time I can promise you if you tell a neutral person Israel is committing genocide, you just lost them as a potential ally.

    I assume that’s the OPs desire.

    It’s persecution, just like Americans treated Cherokee Indians and black people at times.

  • Tiring from attributing your issues onto others mmm? Com’on now…..where’s your stamina.
    According to you – I am more aware than you. Thanks for the support but unnecessary.

    Your pro-Sodomite friend Tutu with an out dated message is a liberal lobbyist and says whatever to fund his lifestyle.
    Of course, you know ALL the organizations that he belongs to, and pay his way. A justisfying mouthpiece for every fruit-loop who believes God should fit in with their dark walk.

    “Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,” (2 Peter 3:3)

  • Barrie Beaumont

    Thank you Herm for all your effort and I appreciate your response very much.
    You will have noted that I am a student of Jewish history and as in all things of a Christian/Biblical nature, I look for proof in all I read. This arises from four years at theological college for my Degree in Theology.
    You exhibit a lot of knowlege and unlike Ben you gave ample proof.

    I am very interested in your last four paragraphs.
    As Christians if we think we know enough, then we do not know anywhere nearly enough.

    We are all teachers by setting an example of Christian living.

    I would like you to expand on your third to last para’ please Herm.

    Would you object to telling me which faith you belong to Herm? I am Baptist but Baptists in Australia follow the traditional English line and from what I know, are different from yours.

  • Patrick Barton

    Jay,

    I think the Hebrew word is “zarah”, Greek LXX = is “sperma”.

    Ancient languages utilized words in different ways than we tend to, context made the determination.

    I disagree with “supercessionism”, however, if you consider the text when God granted the “Palestinian covenant”, it was conditional.

    He did not “give” Israel the land in the sense we use that word, He leased it to them and placed stipulations on the Jews with warnings if they failed to live up to them, blessings if they lived up to them.

    That was a typical covenant of the 2cd millennium BC with YHWH being the strong party, the Jews being the weaker party.

    God exiled them from the land during Jeremiah’s prophet era based on this covenant. The northern 10 tribes had been exiled ~ 120 years previously due to an Assyrian invasion. They are the “lost tribes of Israel”. Disappeared.

    The 2 remaining tribes were exiled in 586 BC.

    The 2 remaining tribes of Judah were returned( the few that agreed to return) ~ 516 BC.

    70AD God did that again to the 2 tribes left.
    Moses discussed all these blessings and curses openly. Do a search to satisfy yourself.

  • Herm

    Quite civilly put, thank you Barrie. In regards to respect I refer you to another rather harsh scripture, at least to some;

    Large crowds were traveling with Jesus, and turning to them he said: “If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters—yes, even their own life—such a person cannot be my disciple. And whoever does not carry their cross and follow me cannot be my disciple.

    Luke 14:25-27 (NIV2011)

    The point is, though we each respect and love our carnal families, we must hate the burdens placed upon us to perform by their, and our, definitions of civility and love.

    “Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to turn “ ‘a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law— a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household.’

    “Anyone who loves their father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves their son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. Whoever does not take up their cross and follow me is not worthy of me. Whoever finds their life will lose it, and whoever loses their life for my sake will find it.

    Matthew 10:34-39 (NIV2011)

    Just in case you do not know the cutting sword of Jesus is always from His mouth, never one drawn from His hip.

    It is never the words but the spirit of the words that determine when people are terminated by the moderator here.

    I really wish that this had been true in our recent presidential elections as lies should have been called lies regardless of civility. Today the lies continue unabated.

    Though bones has come close to calling others fools, which they may have earned, all the times his language has been defined by some to be foul it has actually only reflected the evil of the source. Though it is nice of you to be empathetic to the offender’s feelings it is not always constructive.

    There is a reason so many remain on this blog, more than any other, and that is the latitude we are allowed to be sincere and honest with each other and all others. Ben’s rule seems to be summed up in everything do to others as we would have others do to us.

    Civility more often, especially from the training received from our elders is summed up as in everything do to me as I would have you do to me. I am civil to you because you are civil to me, not because you would like me to be civil to you. I have seen this to be true of Bones, also.

    Derision for the sake of destroying another has been terminated here by the moderator.

  • All versions of Jesus are fiction, and Jesus is a Paganized version of the Jewish Cargo Cult Messiah . There is no such a thing as a God, or a Spirit and theology has no subject. Your recitation of Christian dogma is nonsense

  • all authority in heaven <- this is more flat earth drivel

  • Herm

    … and yet here you are!

  • IT is well known that there was a large influx of Arab immigration after the start of the British mandate. Prior to the return of the Jews the land was nearly empty of inhabitants as reported by Mark Twain in his 1868 journal

    the Definition of “arab refugee” to the UNRWA is anybody who was there for only 3 years prior to 1948

    So your claim that the land was stolen is just more antisemitic bullshit

  • at least they were written by Jews and not Greeks in another time and place

  • Barrie Beaumont

    No, please do yourself a favour and read Exodus. The Cananites were wiped out except for a few because Joshua did not follow God’s orders. They could not have become the Jews and Baal and Yaweh, no association, you are comparing an idol to the living God.

    Bafoofkit I think I have sprung you, you are a setup so I will ignore you in future.

  • Barrie Beaumont

    Do you use any Bible commentaries to assist your understanding of the Bible?

  • Mike

    Those Arabs were still there first

  • Ed Senter

    Most of the Christian world is still stuck in the 4th century and most of the fragment left is stuck in some kind of cult mentality. Truth will always be twisted by Satan’s minions. God, however, will always maintain a pocket of truth to fulfill His purposes. To just spiritualize that which you don’t understand is futile. The descendants of Abraham through Jacob are His oracle. If you believe the Church is the “new Israel”, you are going to miss out on what most of the Bible teaches. Christianity is not a way of life- Christianity is life itself.

  • Barrie Beaumont

    Herm, I am sure I have sprung him. Have a closer look, his comments as annoying and ignorant as they look, are surely made up.

    Look at them closely. If there was ever a case of ‘baiting’ then this is it.

    Look at his name? who uses a name like that? he is having us on.

    Do you agree.

  • Mike

    It was not empty and the Arabs were still there first.

  • Ed Senter

    God is going to dish out plenty of justice at Armageddon. It is right there in the book of Revelation. The restored House of Israel and House of Judah are right in the center of it all.
    The House of Judah never lost its identity. The fact that Jews are still very much around and so despised after all of these centuries tells a lot.

  • Barrie Beaumont

    Mike the “other experts” I referred to are those required to add credence/ support to an opinion.

    Ben gave his opinion and a very strong one at that but it was not supported with reference to other writers with similar opinions and a bibliography. Had he done so then he would have added credence to his voice.

    That is what I meant and please note my reference to Rom.9:6. A respected commentary is required to do this. I say this for correct interpretation.

    Thanks Mike but I will stick with “Inflamatory” as my description of the article for now. I am never to proud to change.

  • malarkey, that Arabs got there in 634 and at first did not impose Islam as it hadn’t been invented yet. The Dome of the Rock was built upon the rock that was in front of the location of the Jewish Temple first built in the time of Solomon in 990BCE .

    so the Jews preceded the Arabs by 1600 years

    so Mike are you completely bereft of any historical knowledge or is your point of view based on simple Jew hatred?

  • Archaeology proves that the “Canaanites” were not wiped out and there was no violent replacement . The Jewish revolution was mostly a cultural one. Pig bones in midden piles started to disappear first in Israel and then in Judah over a period of time

  • Ed Senter

    I disagree. The super-spiritual worship of love will cause most of the world to fall for the lies of the false prophet and the anti-Christ- both of whom will preach peace and unification. And you misinterpret Romans. It is the children of promise-through Isaac- not the children of the flesh-through Ishmael who are the true descendants of Abraham. Paul was teaching that you can not gain salvation through your fleshly efforts. It is only through Christ that we are saved.

  • Will make this relatively easy for you to comprehend – hopefully

    I said earlier Tutu had simply “regurgitated his previous out of date experience” to imply Israel is an apartheid state. Note he is referring to Gaza and Judea/Samaria (West Bank) which are void of sovereignty, yet he blames Israel for their condition, and blames Israel for providing security for its citizens.

    Tutu visits Israel 1989.
    “”If I were to change the names, a description of what is happening in the Gaza Strip and the West Bank could describe events in South Africa.”
    1989 December 24 New York Times

    “I have seen the humiliation of the Palestinians at the road blocks and recall what used to happen to us in our motherland, when arrogant, young white police officers would hector, and bully us, and demean us when we ran the gauntlet of their unpredictable whims…”
    2002 Church Times April 13

    “I have seen the humiliation of the Palestinians at checkpoints and roadblocks, suffering like us when young white police officers prevented us from moving about.” 2002 April 29 World News published Guardian.

    Tutu visits Israel (June 2008) – 19 years after his first visit

    “I have been to the Occupied Palestinian Territory, and I have witnessed the racially segregated roads and housing that reminded me so much of the conditions we experienced in South Africa under the racist system of Apartheid. I have witnessed the humiliation of Palestinian men, women, and children made to wait hours at Israeli military checkpoints routinely when trying to make the most basic of trips to visit relatives or attend school or college, and this humiliation is familiar to me and the many black South Africans who were corralled and regularly insulted by the security forces of the Apartheid government.”
    2010 open letter to University of Berkeley

    Still regurgitating the Tutu original 1989 experience

    “I have witnessed the systemic humiliation of Palestinian men, women and children by members of the Israeli security forces.
    “Their humiliation is familiar to all black South Africans who were corralled and harassed and insulted and assaulted by the security forces of the apartheid government.” 2014

    Humiliation?? Cry me a river

    Again, regurgitating the original but rehashed and out dated personal message – just as I said earlier. Enjoy

    “And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.” (John 8:32)

  • Barrie Beaumont

    Thankyou Herm.
    My belief is that our role as endeavouring Christians is to portray the right image in all that we do. We are in all things representatives of Jesus.

    I have a reputation as a Christian and a duty not to use language which may cause harm to His name. Simply put if I use ‘front bar or back street’ language in conversation, I will open myself to criticism but most of all, I will shame Jesus who I represent.

    The people who hear me will be thinking that if it is ok for me to use coarse language, then so can they. The gospels cover this in detail and there is no need for me to reel of quotes.

    I have not always attempted to live as a Christian and I know what living on both sides of the track is. I have never liked coarse language because there are thousands of words available to use in place of them.

    I know that some use them as a means of expression to make a point, as a result of habit, feeling or a weakness because they do not try for another word. To me Herm, that sums it up and if we are to follow Jesus, there are things that we are to give up and this is one of them.

  • Herm

    I am expanding on this paragraph:

    I am not the Teacher. Ben is not the Teacher. We are young pupils speaking the word of God as we are taught. We are not alone and neither are we special. God’s will is that we all, of mankind in Their image, choose to come to accept Their love born as family in the Spirit today.

    Invite the Spirit of truth to take you through this entirely. Challenge anything you wish but please do so because it makes no sense to you rather than it just doesn’t fit with what you’ve been taught previously.

    Barrie, I will try to highlight eye catchers to allow your heart and mind to process what exactly is written. Please, don’t gloss over anything I am sharing as just something you have read before. Please, if you have the time do read every quote from the Bible in context.

    “But you are not to be called ‘Rabbi,’ for you have one Teacher, and you are all brothers. And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and he is in heaven. Nor are you to be called instructors, for you have one Instructor, the Messiah. The greatest among you will be your servant. For those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.

    Matthew 23:8-12 (NIV2011)

    Just as Jesus was coming up out of the water, he saw heaven being torn open and the Spirit descending on him like a dove. And a voice came from heaven: “You are my Son, whom I love; with you I am well pleased.” At once the Spirit sent him out into the wilderness, and he was in the wilderness forty days, being tempted by Satan. He was with the wild animals, and angels attended him.

    Mark 1:10-13 (NIV2011)

    The Spirit sent Jesus.

    “I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. He will glorify me because it is from me that he will receive what he will make known to you. All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will receive from me what he will make known to you.”

    John 16:12-15 (NIV2011)

    Jesus is instructing the Guide.

    “All this I have spoken while still with you. But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.

    John 14:25-26 (NIV2011)

    The Guide is the Teacher.

    Whenever you are arrested and brought to trial, do not worry beforehand about what to say. Just say whatever is given you at the time, for it is not you speaking, but the Holy Spirit.

    Mark 13:11 (NIV2011)

    Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.

    John 1:12-13 (NIV2011)

    “If you love me, keep my commands. And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you. I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you.

    Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them.”

    Then Judas (not Judas Iscariot) said, “But, Lord, why do you intend to show yourself to us and not to the world?”

    Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them. Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.

    John 14:15-24 (NIV2011)

    Orphans” from what family?

    How is it possible to be in another? I can testify with all certainty that Jesus didn’t lie and that this has been possible for all who see and accept for the last 1,984 years after the veil was rent.

    They have come to me and made Their home, our home, in me and I in Them. The temple we worship in was raised with Jesus who administers within as the high priest. Each structure is real and eternal as spirit. All the love that binds me to the Lord my God is of me as a single distinguishable spirit consisting in whole as heart, soul, strength, mind (Luke 10:27).

    “Who are my mother and my brothers?” he asked. Then he looked at those seated in a circle around him and said, “Here are my mother and my brothers! Whoever does God’s will is my brother and sister and mother.”

    Mark 3:33-35 (NIV2011)

    This was in the present then, has been true since, and will remain so for the rest of eternity for all spiritually little sibling disciples (pupils) of the Messiah.

    I add the following to make it clear that God has always been a united plurality in the Holy Spirit bound by all love.

    Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”

    So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them.

    Genesis 1:26-27 (NIV2011)

    As to what church I belong to defies tradition but complies to allegiance to one master. The path began traditionally for that is where all carnal life has to begin.

    My seminary education was under the sponsorship of the United Presbyterian Church on the West Coast of the USA. God made it clear to me in Vietnam that I was not called to the professional ministry but to the lay ministry. After completing college (social science major) He, also, made it clear I could not remain objective enough to counsel others so a physical science became my occupational tether while I pursued God’s lead to minister vocationally all the way from youth, to young adults, to elderly adults and to inmates and guards in Folsom Prison in California. I have worked with most Christian denominations, including Roman Catholic, as well as some Muslim and Buddhist endeavors God directed me to, all as a lay minister beholding in pay to no organized religious body.

    On my knees I thanked God for all the “success” I had enjoyed in all things for nearly 40 years. I looked Him straight in the eye and told Him point blank, “I got it all now you can use me any way you want”.

    I went through a decade long midlife crisis to end up with a 20 year marriage lost, resigning as an elder in the Seventh Day Adventist church (I learned can’t work seven days a week and diet counts), and my computer field engineering territory be shut down (was over 50 so they wouldn’t transfer me but would give me full pay and benefits for 1.5 years).

    In my heart and mind I had nothing left and was prepared to just walk out over the horizon into the sunset.

    In total grief I laid prostrate on my bedroom floor and thanked God for the depth of feeling He had allowed me that as a child I could not have endured. I asked that for the remainder of my life that the Holy Spirit remain with me at all times. I knew that prior to that time I had intentionally closed my heart and mind to God when I thought that I was going to “sin”. It was silly but true.

    That was when I was finally immersed (baptized) in the Holy Spirit. Prior to that moment our relationship had been determined by my invitation. Since that time I have been a little (I like to think adorable) child of my Father and brother to Jesus, my Instructor in all things. I am loved all ways even though I err as any child must to learn. I am no longer the authority and teacher of God to others but a pupil trying to bring others to God’s teaching.

    I occasionally am called to speak to others but now it is with the true humility only a child secure in her/his family can be. I do like you do and step in to defend others from destructive harassment but always recognizing what I am being told by my Teacher.

    I do not forget that my journey to this point on earth would not have been without the organized religions of this world who drew my attention to the life possibility of reality in spirit without any physical necessary for its sustenance. The reverse I know today is the most true in that the physical is totally dependent on the reality of spirit for its sustenance.

    I will support all faiths that I am led to believe might lead others to God as their family; providing for them, nurturing them, sheltering them, teaching them, working with them, playing with them and worshiping with them in the savor of divine relationship.

    You asked. Do with this as you will. Just know, please, by my testimony here, that the Teacher is in your midst ready to be one with you and you with God as Their child today. By your fruit I can know that your journey is moving in that very direction. I have been a child of God for 22 earth years now and am thrilled to wake up every morning knowing I’m going to add to my potential eternal adventure in learning. If I died in the next moment never to know anything ever again this has been a wondrous opportunity that I am thankful for. I hope for the same for you and all who can value each life in the image of and/or of God.

    Love you!

  • Herm

    Without the Holy Spirit in you and you in Christ and Christ in you you are vulnerable prey to false prophets. With the Teacher telling you what to say when brought to trial, as I am in this moment before you, there is no worry. The Holy Spirit, the Spirit of truth, is our salvation from all anti-Christs in the form of modern day Pharisees and teachers of the law. No, Ed, it was not me that misinterpreted Paul’s letters to Rome for it is the Teacher who told me what to say.

    What do you believe Christ saved you from, to do what, when, and where?

  • Herm

    Yes, I agree. I, also, don’t have a clue as to “his” gender or age. His baiting is the classic spirit of a troll as defined by our relatively new cyber world. The fun part is when we can use this otherwise waste of bytes to share a little of the focus this blog has to share.

  • Ron McPherson

    I’m very much aware of dispensationalism, immersed in it for a great many years. Always carried my Scofield under my arm, utterly closed minded to anything else. Not anymore.

  • Mike

    The “arabs”, as you call them, were there when Joshua invaded and slaughtered people based on lies. Accusing people of hating jews is just a sleazy tactic that zionists use when their argument has failed.

  • You are nuts, there is no evidence there was ever a Joshua , the walls of Jericho weren’t even there in this time period

  • Robert J Naumann

    I get the impression that the evangelical’s interest in Israel has more to do with the role they believe Israel must play in the apocalyptic prophesies concerning the return of Christ.

  • Barrie Beaumont

    That is certainly one of my my interests Robert, but with things as they are in “Israel” my study is taking me back in time to bring me to the present day.

    The question persists on what were the original borders of the “land” compared to today. I would project that the original Canaan border, plus any added in biblical history through conquest to protect her borders, should makeup the borders of Israel today.

    What we know is that Israel, particularly Jerusalem has been subject to many transitions as a result of wars and takeovers; not forgetting the politics of other countries.

    I am well resourced in my study effort and I far prefer to read authentic history alongside the Bible to learn the full measure.

  • Barrie Beaumont

    Herm as far as the Bible is concerned and all matters pertaining to it, I never gloss over anything, without noting and returning.

    I have been told that I am to penetrating when it comes to Gods word. What I fail to understand I will delve into my resources and find, but most of all I have our Father with me all the time helping when even my resources fail.

    Thank you for your kind words and your openness. We both recognised something in each other that carried us forward in this forum which has been of particular benefit to me.

    I have spent too much time on this forum but enjoyed it apart from the language and initially being sucked in by “Bafookit.” who is now exposed.

    I do a lot of study and this has been a relaxation.

    God bless.

  • Bones

    Lol you still posting after the lies you posted.

    You really are some sort of pathalogical liar.

    Jesus was of course not talking about you.

    Because you are a liar.

  • Bones

    Nah, that’s bs.

    The Book of Revelation has nothing whatsoever to do with the future.

    It’s all about Imperial Rome.

  • Bones

    Yeah because that’s so much better……

    Are you a racist?

  • Bones

    Its funny watching the self-righteous like yourself squirm when their lies have been found out.

    Thanks for posting them for all to see.

  • The fun part is watching you firing off blanks

    Adios my friend

    “Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.” (Psalm 1:1)

  • Bones

    Seems to me you’re blaming Jews for the holocaust.

    What does boycotting German goods have to do with anything?

    And the reason for the holocaust was most certainly thousands of years of anti-semitic Christian teaching.

    Julius Streicher (founder and publisher of the anti-Semitic newspaper Der Stürmer, which became a central element of the Nazi propaganda machine)
    Nuremberg Trial Proceedings Vol. 12

    ONE HUNDRED AND SIXTEENTH DAY
    Monday, 29 April 1946

    Morning Session

    Witness, what aims did you pursue with your speeches and your articles in Der Stuermer?

    STREICHER: The speeches and articles which I wrote were meant to inform the public on a question which appeared to me one of the most important questions. I did not intend to agitate or inflame but to enlighten.

    DR. MARX: Apart from your weekly journal, and particularly after the Party came into power, were there any other publications in Germany which treated the Jewish question in an anti-Semitic way?

    STREICHER: Anti-Semitic publications have existed in Germany for centuries. A book I had, written by Dr. Martin Luther, was, for instance, confiscated. Dr. Martin Luther would very probably sit in my place in the defendants’ dock today, if this book had been taken into consideration by the Prosecution. In the book The Jews and Their Lies, Dr. Martin Luther writes that the Jews are a serpent’s brood and one should burn down their synagogues and destroy them…

    Streicher was executed on 16 October 1946

  • Aw – well….did try to make it as simple as possible but some just relish being difficult….possibly to gain attention

    ‘Can lead a horse to water but …’

  • Bones

    He was assassinated by Jewish militants (terrorrists )

    Couldn’t you be bothered googling.

  • Bones

    No, I’m reading the bit you don’t like.

    The part that mentions the Roman-Jewish War.

  • Bones

    Nope.

    Complete rubbish.

    Like you’re going out to feed homeless vets.

    Maybe they should wait for the free market.

    Everyone knows you’re full of bs.

  • Bones

    Yes, you would like the Muslims to disappear.

    That’s been tried. Didn’t work.

    Funny because Palestinian Christians pay no such tax.

    More lies from Fox and Breitbart.

    It’s not surprising to see you supporting fascism.

  • Bones

    “It will.”

    Lol. You’re demented.

    “That must obey strict Muslims requirements.”

    How many Palestinians are members of Israel’s parliament?

    Yes, Israel a nuclear state , is threatened by Palestinians who don’t even have an army.

    Your support for Israel’s fascist policy of liebensraum is noted. So yeah Palestinians have freedom.

    Russia’s involvement has to do with the crisis in Syria who are Russian allies.

    You’ve been reading too much Fox and Breitabrt rubbish.

    But hey enjoy your billions of dollars going to Israel to oppress Palestinians over the next 10 years.

  • Bones

    Sook.

  • Bones

    Bye, Adolf.

  • Bones

    See ya Adolf….no one’s interested in your Aryan rubbish.

  • Bones

    So God hates you.

    Bad luck for you then.

  • Bones

    Yeah I heard you before, Nazi.

  • Bones

    Someone’s getting some of their own medicine.

    An creep who laughs at people suffering because of their ideology and claims he is the only God like person on here..

  • Bones

    Oooo someone’s lost it now, hey liar.

    You really are pathetic.

  • Bones

    Go away, Nazi.

  • Bones

    Sieg Heil!

  • Bones

    You are a child.

    And a liar.

    Why do you quote the Bible and lie at the same time?

    It really is humorous what you’re displaying here.

  • “And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.” (John 1:5)

  • Bones

    Yes we can see your darkness.

    How pathetic that you lie about Tutu all because of your ideology.

  • Bones

    Still lying.

    You can’t even lie straight in bed.

  • Bones

    The fun part is watching you disgrace yourself in front of everyone.

  • “Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.” (Matthew 7:14)

  • Happy for ya
    “There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.” (1 John 4:18)

  • Matthew

    I´m wondering if we can really ascertain the actual borders at all. I mean doesn´t the Old Testament suggest that the land given to Israel will stretch from like the Nile to the Euphrates??

  • Grow a spiritual pair mate. No need to use ‘we’ when referring to your troubled self. (An apology if suffering from bipolar or mental ailment…seriously)

    “Fools make a mock at sin: but among the righteous there is favour.
    The heart knoweth his own bitterness; and a stranger doth not intermeddle with his joy.” (Proverbs 14:9-10)

  • apoxbeonyou

    Science Mike, Stan Mitchell.

  • soter phile

    For all the times I have passionately disagreed with Benjamin Corey, I agree heartily with him here.

    Even just a quick perusal of Jesus’ comments about Abraham’s children (Jn.8) or Paul’s reference to the Church as the “Israel of God” (Gal.6) make the religio-political argument untenable.

    Christians: send missionaries to Israel, not missiles.

  • Obviously an Exageration

  • Not really disappeared. Archaeology shows a building boom as Displaced Isrealites moved south

  • There is nothing in the NT that has any bearing on Israel

  • Except there is no word of God living or otherwise. All books are man made and most of the NT is flat earth drivel

  • “Nothing in all creation is hidden from God’s sight” another person who tells us the thoughts of God as if they knew of any

  • So from what you say there is no difference between jesus and the antichrist.

  • There is no Holy Spirit, what there is, is called holy baloney

  • What is Ken Ham? The Dinosaur lime of Christianity?

  • Your problem is that Theology has no subject, Jesus is a hoax. And your entire life has been spent on religious
    drivel

  • If it had anything to do with the ancient state it has the same to do with the modern state

  • But they did raid Rome in 848

  • Caspian states are a thousand miles from Israel and sell their crude through Russian and Iran

  • Israel is not in africa

  • God has no interests, all Gods are imaginary

  • You have satan up the ying yang

  • There is no “Palestinian Territory” , All of the Mandate was established for a Jewish homeland . Arabs have 22 other Arab states

  • The Jews are the Canaanites. Stop making them into Arabs, they spoke Hebrew . Arabic is a south semitic language

  • John

    … Yes? So everyone who’s assassinated is right?

  • Har Meggido, the fact your Bible can’t even pronounce the place’s name tells us a bit about it’s accuracy. This is the location where King Josiah, a great religious reformer, was killed fighting Pharaoh Nekko

  • The book of Revelation is silly. It has stars falling to the earth, knocked out of the sky by a dragon. It has the sky ripping like a curtain.

  • The OT is the deed to the Land

  • The same people who do not bat an eyelash over a new sub-division in California get all hot under the collar for a new subdivision in Judea

  • Who are you to define what is Judaism and who are Jews?

  • Herm

    Ignorance is no excuse for judging what others know for certain that you clearly do not. It only makes you the fool that you try so hard to make others.

  • Herm

    … and your source of such brilliance in judgment is?

  • Herm

    So how many other states do the 562 different Native American tribes have for their homeland?

  • Ed Senter

    Then you should have no problem pointing out when the armies of the world surrounded Jerusalem and Jesus Christ slew them with the sword from His mouth, then restored Israel buried the bodies and burned the weapons of warfare for 7 years. Eh?

  • Ed Senter

    Some people are so open minded that their brains fall out.
    So, what “opened” your mind?

  • Ed Senter

    wow, if you believe you are carrying out Mark 13:11, you are in for a surprise.
    How are you in Christ? When He is in you. Christ is formed in your heart by faith.
    Christ saved me from death. That is true salvation. God said that if you eat of that tree, you will die. They did not believe Him, and believed a lie. Whatever Adam lost, Christ has now restored. All I (or anyone) can do is Faith.
    Keep reading Romans 11. God is not done with Israel as a nation.

  • Ron McPherson

    You asserted that anyone with “a modicum of understanding” knows that God is not finished with Israel as a nation. By any interpretation, that suggests that anyone not believing your way has practically no biblical understanding in eschatological matters. And that is just patently untrue. I’m not arguing for or against the merits of dispensationslism. What I am saying is that I don’t doggedly embrace a dispensational mindset anymore. Actually many of the words of Jesus actually began to make MORE sense to me when I became more open minded about it. Apparently you think an open mind actually endangers one to the perils of ignorance. I happen to think a position that one takes has more validity when they’ve actually given a topic due diligence of study. Peace

  • Which is why people with brains are leaving Christianity.

  • Ron McPherson

    Dude, Herm’s responding and offering his thoughts on a Christian themed forum. Geez, why do you care what he thinks about a God you don’t even believe in? Thou protesteth too much. Something is amiss here. To many with like minded faith and experiences, Herm’s words may resonate as meaningful. Again, atheists are totally welcomed to participate. But butting in as if the rest of us are ignoramuses is like listening in on a family party line and calling them fools for discussing events of which you’re unaware.

  • Barrie Beaumont

    Hey Bones I am still waiting for your opinion, you claim that my answer to Ahmed was not history. “What is it then.”

  • Strongs119

    My comments are comprised entirely of quotes from contemporary and ancient Jewish sources, as well as ancient Greek and Roman sources and the bible. You state that only some of my sources are factually valid, here you are being nothing but a liar! Tell me, and be specific, which of the sources that I cited is not factually valid? Also, which of my above mentioned sources do you classify to be thinly veiled bigotry? If you can’t back up your statements then you should apologize for being a liar and slandering me.

  • Ed Senter

    That is interesting. I thought Jesus was nothing but a turn the other cheek hippie and most of Christianity was nonsense until I did a hard nosed study of the Bible. Israel as a nation is the central theme through out. Any objective observer would see that. I am not a DTS grad or a Scofieldite. There are segments of truth in every belief, but no one knows it all.

  • Barrie Beaumont

    I take it that you answer is NO, you do not use commentaries.

    I am disappointed that you don’t, and do you mind if I recommend that you do, because a good commentary will answer a lot of of what I glean, are your questions from what you have written.

    A commentary on each book is preferable to a multi-book commentary and if you have issues with accuracy can I recommend Zondervans “The Story of God Commentary on Genesis” published in 2016.

    Genesis is the hardest of all the Bible books to understand and I am repeating the words of my Head of School, Dr Aaron Chalmersl at Tabor College in South Australia three days ago, “Barrie, it will take you a lifetime to fully understand it.”

    Dr Chalmers would know that I would be using every resource I can lay my hands on; including the very best commentaries.

  • Herm

    “If you love me, keep my commands. And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you. I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you. Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them.”

    John 14:15-21 (NIV2011)

    Apparently that day has not come for you. You know of the Spirit of truth from your Bible but you do not know Him living with you and in you without pause forever more. You can only live by “inheriting” eternal life as a child of God, born in the Spirit, today.

    On one occasion, while he was eating with them, he gave them this command: “Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you have heard me speak about. For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.”

    Then they gathered around him and asked him, “Lord, are you at this time going to restore the kingdom to Israel?”

    He said to them: “It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority. But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.”

    Acts 1:4-8 (NIV2011)

    On their release, Peter and John went back to their own people and reported all that the chief priests and the elders had said to them.

    When they heard this, they raised their voices together in prayer to God. “Sovereign Lord,” they said, “you made the heavens and the earth and the sea, and everything in them. You spoke by the Holy Spirit through the mouth of your servant, our father David: “

    ‘Why do the nations rage and the peoples plot in vain? The kings of the earth rise up and the rulers band together against the Lord and against his anointed one.’ Indeed Herod and Pontius Pilate met together with the Gentiles and the people of Israel in this city to conspire against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed. They did what your power and will had decided beforehand should happen.

    Now, Lord, consider their threats and enable your servants to speak your word with great boldness. Stretch out your hand to heal and perform signs and wonders through the name of your holy servant Jesus.”

    After they prayed, the place where they were meeting was shaken. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and spoke the word of God boldly.

    Acts 4:23-31 (NIV2011)

    When under the authority of the covenant of Moses God spoke through the high priest behind the curtain of the Most Holy, the Holy of Holies. When the curtain was torn top to bottom when Jesus gave up His spirit the covenant of Moses ceased forever more as the temple was spiritually destroyed. When Jesus rose so was the temple rebuilt in three days. The Holy Spirit is our salvation that we may accept to live eternally as sibling disciples (students) of our Lord Jesus who was given the covenant by our Father with all authority in heaven and on earth 1,984 years ago.

    If all you have is the promise of faith and not the relationship with and in God as a sister, brother or mother of Jesus today then all the sprinkling and immersion of water will not save you from death.

    For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

    Matthew 5:20 (NIV2011)

    The Pharisees and the teachers of the law were the most renowned fundamentalist and conservative scholars of their time. They did not recognize the Spirit of God in their midst. Without seeing to accept the Spirit of truth in your midst you too, as a studied conservative fundamentalist, judge to crucify daughters and sons of God in God’s name today as those know it all authorities did to Jesus in the name of the God they did not recognize.

    You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me, yet you refuse to come to me to have life.

    John 5:39-40 (NIV2011)

    Though your Bible tells of the word of God it is not the word of God. You must be filled with the Holy Spirit before you can speak the word of God boldly.

    Large crowds were traveling with Jesus, and turning to them he said: “If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters—yes, even their own life—such a person cannot be my disciple. And whoever does not carry their cross and follow me cannot be my disciple.

    Luke 14:25-27 (NIV2011)

    I carry my cross as I hate all the divisive traditions of carnal Man’s spirit that demands a pledge of familial allegiance to mankind’s self-indulgence and self-empowerment that can and does execute God in their midst so that their traditions might live.

    Adam, Eve, Cain and Able are metaphorical for when mankind chose to civilize into cities, farms and ranches about 9,000 years ago in the Fertile Crescent. Modern mankind has left its imprint on this earth for at least 186,000 years prior to that as hunter gatherers. My Teacher has not taught me the specifics nor when the image of God (only spirit and not carnal) was gifted the animal species mankind.

    Christ did not restore anything but the possibility of a direct relationship of Man with God. All life as we know it to be on earth has never stopped changing even for a brief moment. There is no going back to what was, there is only the adventure left of what will be. For those who intimidate, manipulate, subjugate and confuse, those who do not in everything do to others as they would have others do to them, there will be an eternal death of anonymity and knowing nothing. For those who love according to the greatest commandment, on which all the law of life hangs, there will be an eternity of learning, working, playing and savoring in God as Their child.

    That’s the Gospel truth!

    Thanks Ed for risking to speak your judgment!

  • raven nevermore

    I take it Ben is a Calvinist, since most of them are anti-Israel. He mentions “gross human right” abuse of some group, when there are many ethnic groups. But like most progressives or bigoted liberals they automatically side up with Palestinians. Ben is right, however, that the Bible may not explicitly state that we are not to stand for Israel as Christians, although as a humane act belonging to the human race it is better to stand for a democratic country – which Ben forgets about. But isn’t that what liberals do, have selective intelligence, if at all?

    Why do you want to support the Palestinian people? If you are not for one group then you are for the other group, by default. Why? And the Palestinians want to annihilate Israel a smarter place to live than all other countries in the Middle East; let them take over and the land will become a trashcan.

    This article is typical liberal Calvinist symbolism over substance. How do I know? Because I just opened Ben’s trashcan and smelled the garbage and I know history. Often we can get a whiff of the progressive (liberal) Christian since they like to be known first as progressive, then Christian, saying nothing worthwhile.

  • Barrie Beaumont

    Yes I wonder to Matthew about the borders but the starting point is this.

    The ‘land’ the God promised to His people in exchange for their Covenant and which they entered and conquered, was at that time, called Canaan. Prior to that it was called Palestine.

    That is my starting point Matthew.

  • Strongs119

    I cited page 3 of the 1980 Jewish Almanac which states that it is incorrect to call a contemporary Jew an Israelite or a Hebrew, I also cited page 592-593 of The Standard Jewish Encyclopedia, New Revised Edition 1966, the Jewish Virtual Library article on Idumea/Edom, “Antiquities of the Jews”, Book 13: Chapter 9, Section 1 by Flavius Josephus, & Geography Bk.16.2.34 by Greek historian Strabo, which all record Hycarnus’ forced conversion of the Edomites to Judaism and their subsequent absorption among the Jewish people.

    — Which of these sources is thinly veiled bigotry? You claim that only some of my sources are factually valid. Please point out which of these sources that I cited is not factually valid? C’mon, tell me?

  • common sense, worth more than a pile of bibles and religious tracts

  • there are no spirits, this is nothing more than ancient ignorance about the air and respiration

  • You Heart is a pump , it doesn’t have faith

  • Jesus has no commandments except for a few tidbits of excerpts from the Talmud without the Rabbinic commentary and the opposing views. You have a rather dumb God

  • Herm

    You know nothing of spirit, nothing.

  • Herm

    Your speak of what you do not know as though everyone must not know it, also. Brilliant and short lived! bye

  • Strongs119

    After “bones” first mockingly stated the words, “Aryan Jesus,” I replied by citing Revelation 1:14, Lamentations 4:7, 1 Samuel 16:12, 1 Samuel 17:42, and the Song of Solomon 5:10-15, which describe the ancient Israelites as “White and Ruddy,” and I mentioned the Letter of Lentulus by Roman Consul Publius Lentulus. I also cited biblical verses dealing with the Israelites and Edomites, e.g. Genesis 35:10, Romans 9:13, Genesis 36:1-5, Genesis 36:9, Obadiah 1:9, Obadiah 1:18.

    Which of the above sources do you claim is factually invalid, I mean, that’s what you said! You said that only some of my sources are factually valid and I am calling you a liar, which you are, but I’m also giving you a chance to defend your allegation by pointing out which one of the above sources is factually invalid and which one is an example of thinly veiled bigotry? Go on.

  • Bones

    None of your Aryan crap is new, Adolf.

    Lol, early pictures of Israelites show them as black or brown.

    That’ll disappoint your Aryan Jesus, Adolf.

    http://realhistoryww.com/world_history/ancient/Misc/Jesus/Jesus.htm

    Oh and they’ve investigated dead Hebrews from the Second Temple period….

    Israeli anthropologist claims the subjects of the Kingdom of Judea looked more like black Africans.
    http://www.haaretz.com/how-white-were-the-israelites-facial-reconstruction-may-be-surprising-1.257245

    lol…bad luck for you, Nazi.

  • Bones

    The way he is using them – yes.

    So what if Idumeans were converted, there were millions of other Jews around.

    Maybe they were the white ones.

    And are Idumeans black?

    They were all Canaanites, ffs.

  • Strongs119

    On June 14, 2000, Israeli archaeologists discovered the remains of an Israelite male with REDDISH COLOR HAIR, carbon dated to the 1st Century BC. Have you ever seen an African Negro or an Oriental with Reddish hair? Reddish hair is common only to people of White European racial ancestry. Read more here: http://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/daily/ancient-cultures/ancient-israel/the-only-ancient-jewish-hair-ever-found/

  • Bones

    Mythical National revisionism written during and after the Exile.

    The Israelites were a Canaanite tribe.

  • Bones

    Actually Adolf, they found a Hebrew skeleton from the Second Temple period and guess what?????.

    “Not surprisingly, the appearance of the man is very similar to that of today’s Middle Eastern man.

    http://www.haaretz.com/how-white-were-the-israelites-facial-reconstruction-may-be-surprising-1.257245

    And the pictures of Hebrews from the first century and before show them as brown.

    http://realhistoryww.com/world_history/ancient/Misc/Jesus/Jesus.htm

    Bye bye Nazi.

    Take your Aryan lies somewhere else.

  • Bones

    That’s the authors wish for revenge on the Roman Armies that destroyed the Temple and Jerusalem.

    The author of Revelation was a Christian Jew (Judaizer) who would say that you are the False Prophet.

    Do you think Jesus is going to kill people with a ‘sword in his mouth’.

    John obviously didn’t know much about modern warfare.

    Jesus would obviously have a chaingun in his mouth.

  • Bones

    Yeah, so.

    So is most of the Old Testament.

    Eg the Plagues in Egypt and the Exodus.

  • Bones

    He was actually there……and was assassinated for a reason.

    I know that doesn’t fit with your wish to have the Arabs peacefully leave.

  • Bones

    Tell that to the settlers.

  • Ed Senter

    Oh, you have the spirit and I do not? What a presumptuous, super-spiritual, one-upmanship you are. I am not a fundie- wherever did you get that idea?
    I am a realist. Why do you even bother to quote Bible if you can not connect the dots? You pick out scripture only to support your preconceived ideas.
    Apparently the apostles, though full of the Spirit, missed the boat. They all thought Jesus would return, as prophesized in Daniel, and set up an earthly Kingdom.

    Is God done with Israel as a nation?

  • Strongs119

    ♦ Millions? WRONG! Read and Learn.

    The Chaldean King of Babylon, Nebuchadnezzar II captured Jerusalem in 597 BC, deposing King Jehoiakim of Judah, (II Chronicles 36:5-6, 2 Kings 24:10-12, Daniel 1:1-2), deporting 10,000 of the prominent citizens (2 Kings 24:14 )and installing Zedekiah as tributary king of Judah, (II Chronicles 36:8-10, 2 Kings 24:17), at the age of 21, (II Chronicles 36:11, 2 Kings 24:18).

    Zedekiah revolted against Babylon (II Chronicles 36:13, 2 Kings 24:20) and Nebuchadnezzar II responded by destroying Jerusalem in 587BC, (II Chronicles 36:17-19, 2 Kings 25:4, 2 Kings 25:8-10, Jeremiah 39:1-2, Jeremiah 39:8) and carrying away captive a sizeable portion of the population of Judea to Babylon. (II Chronicles 36:20, 2 Kings 25:11-12, Jeremiah 39:9-10)

    ♦ We know from Ezra 2:64-65, that only 42,360 of these Israelites returned to Jerusalem, and Judea. Furthermore, The Ancient Greek geographer, and historian Strabo, writing around the time of Christ, stated that Edomites [Idumeans in Greek] constituted the majority of the population of Western Judea. [See, Strabo, Geography [Bk.16.2.34] http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0239%3Abook%3D16%3Achapter%3D2%3Asection%3D34

    FROM the above we know that by the time Hasmonean leader Hasmonean leader Johanan Hyrcanus’ forcibly converted [Edom/Idumea] to Judaism in 130BC, as recorded by Flavius Josephus in, “Antiquities of the Jews”, Book 13: Chapter 9, Section 1, there was only a small number of Israelites left residing in Judea, NOT the millions that you laughably claim there were you clown.

  • Ron McPherson

    “…no one knows it all.”

    On that we can agree. Peace

  • Ed Senter

    I am a false prophet because I repeat his words? Ha
    The romans did not destroy the temple because one wall still stands. Jesus said not one stone would stand.
    It is still future, my friend.

  • John

    He was there after the part of the war that we’re talking about, sure.

  • Bones

    Lol…you are the fool here.

    You’ve degenerated into a complete laughing stock.

    “all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”

    You might need some fire retardant suit…..

  • Bones

    So you won’t find the gate.

    It’s funny because you’d crucify Jesus and kill the prophets for criticising Israel as well.

    Just like you hate Tutu.

  • Bones

    Yeah you’re in the darkness of hate and lies.

    We know that….

  • Bones

    Look, you just enjoy lying….

    You obviously have some pathological problem hence why you keep posting and embarrassing yourself.

  • Bones

    And we’ve seen that you are ungodly who lies about the godly.

  • Bones

    Is God done with the Palestinians…or doesn’t he give a shit about them?

  • Bones

    Oh honestly, do you think that is even an accurate desrciption.

    We know now that Jerusalem at the time of David and his kingdom were not how they were described in the Bible.

  • Bones

    Aside from the Roman-Jewish War, destruction of the Temple and Jerusalem, the Diaspora…..

  • Bones

    Better tell your settler mates that then….

  • Bones

    Lol, you got it.

    Your settlers would love him.

  • Bones

    You mean like Judaism?

  • Bones

    Nah…the ancient state of Israel has nothing in common with the modern democratic secular state of Israel.

  • Bones

    And for power and land….

  • Strongs119

    Ezra 2:1-2 Now these are the children of the province that went up out of the captivity, of those which had been carried away, whom Nebuchadnezzar the king of Babylon had carried away unto Babylon, and came again unto Jerusalem and Judah, every one unto his city;

    Ezra 2:64-65 The whole congregation together was forty and two thousand three hundred and threescore, Beside their servants and their maids, of whom there were seven thousand three hundred thirty and seven: and there were among them two hundred singing men and singing women

  • Bones

    You’re a false prophet according to the writer of Revelation.

    He was a Christian Jew (most probably an Ebionite) who found Pauline Christianity disgusting.

    It has nothing to do with future.

  • Bones

    In other words, you are a Christian Zionist.

  • Bones

    The OT is national revisionist nonsense.

  • Bones

    And what happens to the Palestinians?

  • Bones

    They’re all Canaanites….

  • Bones

    That’s right. It’s all national revisionist nonsense.

    You should tell the settlers that.

  • Bones

    So you’re a Nazi too.

    Genetics, exhumations of Hebrew skeletons and drawings and carvings from antiquity show that the Hebrews weren’t white.

    I can’t believe this nonsense is still being talked about.

    It was the central teaching of the Aryan Church in 1930-40s Germany..

  • Bones

    Satan’s Prisoner is a merkin.

    That explains it all.

  • Bones

    Lol, Jesus hates cats too.

  • The Jack of Sandwich

    Why wouldn’t you support the Palestinian people? Aren’t they people?

  • Bones

    Good question.

    Look at how Ethiopian Jews are treated.

    They were denied right of return.

  • Strongs119

    I see, so when the clown that calls himself “Bones” posts a comment to me that mockingly states the words, “Aryan Jesus” and I reply by citing these bible verses Revelation 1:14, Lamentations 4:7, 1 Samuel 16:12, 1 Samuel 17:42, Song of Solomon 5:10-15, which describe the ancient Israelites as “White and/or Ruddy,” I am the one spewing hate? When I link an article from the Archaeological Institute of America, or post the Strong’s Exhaustive Bible concordance definition of Adam, I am spewing hate. No, I am not. It is you who is being hateful and intolerant. Get back to your safe space snowflake, where you can hide and avoid being triggered by bible verses, and bible concordance definitions.

  • Already found the gate
    “Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.” (John 14:6)

    Never said anyone hated your Pro-Sodomite friend Tutu

    One day you may actually be correct at this rate. Apparently even monkeys can type up a symphony if hammering away long enough. Hope for you yet.

  • The Jack of Sandwich

    That would mean God would have to curse himself for cursing some of the sons of Abraham.

  • Would never tread in areas where you specialize

  • The Jack of Sandwich

    Why? Because they chose the same name?

  • Bones

    You mean like when he negotiated a truce between Israel and the Arabs?????

    But he got his thanks for rescuing Jews from the Holocaust….

  • Strongs119

    Since you brought up that we are the descendants of hunter gatherers, and you clearly view yourself to be clever and well read, even recommending that I “study up”, let’s discuss “human” evolution, and get your genius insight, and feedback.

    Chronological research places the creation of Adam at 4004BC. See link. http://www.icr.org/article/james-ussher-his-chronology-reasonable/

    According to the “Out of Africa” theory, the Negroid race traces its ancestry to the Ethiopian Australopithecus afarensis fossil, “Lucy” (3.2 million years old) who gave rise to the first anatomically modern humans called, genus Homo, seen in the Ethiopian Omo fossils (195,000 years old) and the Ethiopian Homo sapiens idaltu fossils (160,000 years old). Thus the ancestors of today’s Negroes, roamed the region of Ethiopia, almost 200,000 years prior to the creation of Adam. * This would mean that Negroes are not of the race of Adam. Comments?

    The fragmented remains of ancient permanent teeth, unearthed in Lunadong cave, in China’s Guangxi Zhuang region, and parts of south-east Asia may be 126,000 years old. These fossilized remains are the ancestors of today’s Oriental races. * This would mean that Asiatics are not of the race of Adam. Comments?

  • Barrie Beaumont

    There you go again excercising your sarcasm at will, and made a statement but provided nothing in addition to back it up?

  • Bones

    Describing yourself again Satan’sPrisoner.

  • Bones

    Lol…you were obviously homeschooled.

  • Bones

    He was political in the way he challenged oppressive government systems. – both religious and militaristic.

    Pilate’s role is clearly a whitewash.

    We know Pilate was a cruel, sadistic tyrant who wouldn’t think twice about crucifying a troublesome Jew.

  • Barrie Beaumont

    I assume that you know what a merkin is ” an artificial covering or hair for the pubic area.” That is what you describe a contributor to this forum as?

    Well it is apparent that Ben Corey may not know the meaning and with respect, if you do Mr Corey then I am appalled at what you allow “Bones” to write.

    I entered this forum believing that there would be a degree of respect, civility and friendly intelligent contributions. In the greater majority of contributions that is the case, but I draw the line with the coarseness that “Bones” includes in the majority of his comments. That said, I will go elsewhere and I trust Mr Corey will monitor “Bones” response.

  • John

    Arabs left during the war, generally before the real fighting even started. Being there for a negotiation of the truce, at the end of the war, does not mean that he was there to see the Arabs leaving.

  • Bones

    You mean like where Palestinians can’t travel down certain streets in their own towns…..

    Desmond Tutu

    “I have been to the Occupied Palestinian Territory, and I have witnessed the racially segregated roads and housing that reminded me so much of the conditions we experienced in South Africa under the racist system of Apartheid. I have witnessed the humiliation of Palestinian men, women, and children made to wait hours at Israeli military checkpoints routinely when trying to make the most basic of trips to visit relatives or attend school or college, and this humiliation is familiar to me and the many black South Africans who were corralled and regularly insulted by the security forces of the Apartheid government.”

    “It is not a Muslim or Jewish crisis. It is a human rights crisis with roots to what amounts to an apartheid system of land ownership and control. It is a crisis that fuels other crises…”

    Former deputy mayor of Jerusalem Meron Benvenisti relates in his 1986 book Conflicts and Contradictions that during the 1970s, an official of the South African apartheid government compared Israeli–Palestinian relations to South African policy for the Transkei in a meeting.

    “I understand your reaction. But aren’t we actually doing the same thing? We are faced with the same existential problem, therefore we arrive at the same solution. The only difference is that yours is pragmatic and ours is ideological.”

  • Bones

    You specialise in lying.

    Congrats.

  • Bones

    Gay people will be in the kingdom before liars like you.

    Thanks for showing that your religion is based on lies and why you are a liar and a hateful merkin.

  • The Jack of Sandwich

    I would project that the original Canaan border, plus any added in biblical history through conquest to protect her borders, should makeup the borders of Israel today.

    Why? Why should the borders of the modern nation of Israel have any relations to the borders of ancient Canaan?

  • Hisprisoner

    Go fuck yourself you piece of dogshit.

  • Strongs119

    Martin Luther King is always portrayed by the media as being a good Christian family man — the epitome of a man of God. Yet, MLK had dozens of liaisons with prostitutes, White and Black, used church money to pay them and commonly beat them — all documented by the FBI and admitted by King associates. [See, Abernathy, R. (1989). And the Walls Came Tumbling Down. New York: Harper & Row.]

    MLK even spent the night before his assassination copulating with and beating White prostitutes. Recorded on the FBI surveillance tapes the “Reverend King” exclaims during intercourse, “I’m f—ing for God!” and “I’m not a Negro tonight!” [See Newsweek. (1998). Books: The Middle of the Journey, Taylor Branch’s Grand Civil-Rights History Rolls On. January19. p.62. Quoting from Pillar of Fire: America in the King Years 1963-65. Taylor Branch. Simon and Schuster.]

    The King records are so damning that the tapes and other FBI documents were sealed for 50 years.

  • Bones

    He was there a couple of months after………….lol….

    He knew what was going on….

    And for that they killed him….the fact that he had saved thousands of Jewish lives was meaningless to extremist Jews.

    Oh and Yitzhak Rabin

    “”‘Driving out’ is a term with a harsh ring. Psychologically, this was one of the most difficult actions we undertook. The population of Lod did not leave willingly. There was no way of avoiding the use of force and warning shots in order to make the inhabitants march the 10 to 15 miles to the point where they met up with the legion.” ”

    An expulsion order signed by Yitzhak Rabin was issued to the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) stating, “1. The inhabitants of Lydda must be expelled quickly without attention to age.…”,[ Ramle’s residents were bussed out, while the people of Lydda were forced to walk miles during a summer heat wave to the Arab front lines, where the Arab Legion, Transjordan’s British-led army, tried to provide shelter and supplies. A number of the refugees died during the exodus from exhaustion and dehydration, with estimates ranging from a handful to a figure of 500.

    This accounted for 50,000-70,000 people or 10% of the Arab Exodus.

    A document produced by the Israeli Defence Forces Intelligence Service entitled “The Emigration of the Arabs of Palestine in the Period 1/12/1947 – 1/6/1948” was dated 30 June 1948 and became widely known around 1985.

    The document details 11 factors which caused the exodus, and lists them “in order of importance”:

    1) Direct, hostile Jewish [ Haganah/IDF ] operations against Arab settlements.
    2) The effect of our [Haganah/IDF] hostile operations against nearby [Arab] settlements… (… especially the fall of large neighbouring centers).
    3) Operation of [Jewish] dissidents [ Irgun Tzvai Leumi and Lohamei Herut Yisrael]
    4) Orders and decrees by Arab institutions and gangs [irregulars].
    5) Jewish whispering operations [psychological warfare], aimed at frightening away Arab inhabitants.
    6) Ultimate expulsion orders [by Jewish forces]
    7) Fear of Jewish [retaliatory] response [following] major Arab attack on Jews.
    8) The appearance of gangs [irregular Arab forces] and non-local fighters in the vicinity of a village.
    9) Fear of Arab invasion and its consequences [mainly near the borders].
    10) Isolated Arab villages in purely [predominantly] Jewish areas.
    11) Various local factors and general fear of the future.

    “In the past two decades, following the powerful reverberations (concerning the cause of the Nakba) triggered by the publication of books written by those dubbed the “New Historians,” the Israeli archives revoked access to much of the explosive material. Archived Israeli documents that reported the expulsion of Palestinians, massacres or rapes perpetrated by Israeli soldiers, along with other events considered embarrassing by the establishment, were reclassified as “top secret.”

  • Strongs119

    Leviticus 18:22Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.”

    Leviticus 20:13If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.”

    1 Corinthians 6:9-10 “Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.

    Romans 1:26-27 “For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.”

  • Bones

    Well Barrie, I thought as an Aussie you would know that a merkin is another name for a complete moron.

    Merkin
    adjective Not to be confused with the original merkin, (pubic wig) but rather an up-coming Australian slang which can be replaced for vulgar slang such as; ‘geek’, ‘nerd’ or ‘weener’

    ‘Look at that little merkin skipping along the street.’

    But hey, it seems you’ve singled me out on a thread full of racists and sectarian right wing dickheads.

    So you can kiss my arse.

  • Bones

    From the Jewish Virtual Library

    History of Jerusalem: Myth and Reality of King David’s Jerusalem

    The Bible is not – and was never intended to be – a historical document. A work of theology, law, ethics and literature, it does contain historical information; but if we want to evaluate this information we should consider when, how and why the Bible was compiled.

    The saga of the Israelites, as told in the Bible, was designed as a morality tale to prove the importance of faith in the One God. The stories of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Moses and Joshua demonstrate that the Israelites were rewarded when they obeyed God, but were punished when they strayed.

    The historical evidence to back up these events is sparse, and, in some cases, contradictory. In particular, the account of Joshua’s conquest of Canaan is inconsistent with the archaeological evidence. Cities supposedly conquered by Joshua in the 14th century BCE were destroyed long before he came on the scene. Some, such as Ai and Arad, had been ruins for a 1000 years.

    The Book of Judges, which directly contradicts Joshua, and shows the Israelites settling the land over a prolonged period, is nearer historical reality; but even it cannot be taken at face value.

    The archaeological surveys conducted over the past two decades in the hills of Menasseh, Ephraim, Benjamin and Judah, on the west bank of the River Jordan, indicate that the origin and development of the Israelite entity was somewhat different from either of the rival accounts in the Bible. The survey was conducted by more than a dozen archaeologists, most of them from Tel Aviv University’s Institute of Archaeology. Their conclusions were published in “From Nomadism to Monarchy,” edited by Prof. Israel Finkelstein and Prof. Nadav Na’aman.

    Around 1200 BCE, semi-nomads from the desert fringes to the east, joined by elements from Anatolia, the Aegean, and the south, possibly including Egypt, began to settle in the hill country of Canaan. A large proportion – probably a majority of this population – were refugees from the Canaanite city states, destroyed by the Egyptians in one of their periodic invasions.

    The conclusion is somewhat startling to Bible readers who know the Canaanites portrayed in the Bible as immoral idolaters: most of the Israelites were in fact formerly Canaanites. The story of Abraham’s journey from Ur of the Chaldees, the Patriarchs, the Exodus, Sinai, and the conquest of Canaan, all these were apparently based on legends that the various elements brought with them from their countries of origin. The consolidation of the Israelites into a nation was not the result of wanderings in the desert and divine revelation, but came from the need to defend themselves against the Philistines, who settled in the Canaanite coastal plain more or less at the same time the Israelites were establishing themselves in the hills.

    Thus the founders of Israel were not Abraham and Moses; but Saul and David. It was apparently Saul who consolidated the hill farmers under his rule and created fighting units capable of confronting the Philistines. It was David who defeated the Philistines and united the hill farmers with the people of the Canaanite plains, thus establishing the Kingdom of Israel and its capital city.

    It is generally accepted among scholars today that there is genuine historical material in the Books of Samuel, which describe the careers of Saul and David; but even these books must be critically examined to distinguish between legend and fact, in as much as it can ever be known. Some of the materials in Samuel I and II , notably the lists of officers, officials, and districts are believed to be very early, possibly even dating to the time of David or Solomon. These documents were probably in the hands of the Deuteronomists when they started to compile the material three centuries later.

    http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/myth-and-reality-of-king-david-s-jerusalem

    The Bible Unearthed

    Although the book of Samuel, and initial parts of the books of Kings, portray Saul, David and Solomon ruling in succession over a powerful and cosmopolitan united kingdom of Israel and Judah, Finkelstein and Silberman regard modern archaeological evidence as showing that this may not be true. Archaeology instead shows that in the time of Solomon, the northern kingdom of Israel was quite small, too poor to be able to pay for a vast army, and with too little bureaucracy to be able to administer a kingdom, certainly not an empire; it only emerged later, around the beginning of the 9th century BCE, in the time of Omri. There is little to suggest that Jerusalem, called by the Bible David’s capital, was “perhaps not more than a typical hill country village” during the time of David and of Solomon, and Judah remained little more than a sparsely populated rural region, until the 8th century BCE. Though the Tel Dan Stele seems to confirm that a “House of David” existed, and “clearly validates the biblical description of a figure named David becoming the founder of the dynasty of Judahite kings in Jerusalem”, it says nothing else about him.

  • Bones

    Gee I’m glad you bolded those parts.

    So you hate gays and Jews.

    Do you want a cookie, Adolf?

  • Strongs119

    From the Haaretz article that you linked:

    The research, conducted by Prof. Yair Ben David of Tel-Aviv University with scientists from the Russian Foundation of Fundamental Investigation, was published in the German journal Anthropoligischer Anzeiger.

    Ben Yair used the skull of a male from the Hellenistic Period and a female from the Roman Period that had been discovered in the Dead Sea region.

    Using cutting-edge technology, they created two statues they say are quite accurate representations of early Hebrew man and woman. The researchers concluded that he belonged to the Mediterranean branch of the Caucasoid group, scientific terminology for what is known as “white.”

    However, the woman’s appearance was quite surprising. She has a large mouth with a protruding upper lip and a full lower lip. The nose is also prominent with a low bridge. These and other findings led the researchers to determine that while the reconstructed woman was also Caucasoid, she had “equatorial (African)” characteristics.

    ALL this proves is that there were different races wondering near the Dead sea, clearly these two individuals, the male and female, one Caucasoid the other “equatorial (African)”, i.e. Negroid, couldn’t both have been Israelites now could they!

  • Bones

    Yeah because Hoover wanted to keep it all a secret……

    Ralph David Abernathy did acknowledge in his 1989 autobiography, And the Walls Came Tumbling Down, that Martin Luther King engaged in extramarital affairs (evidence of which was sometimes recorded by the FBI through hotel room bugs), but he said absolutely nothing in his book about King’s supposed “obsession with white prostitutes,” King’s using “church donations to have drunken sex parties,” or King’s hiring “white prostitutes and occasionally beating them brutally.” In fact, Abernathy stated quite emphatically that he never knew King to have any sexual involvement with white women at all:

    “Much has been written in recent years about my friend’s weakness for women. Had others not dealt with the matter in such detail, I might have avoided any commentary. Unfortunately, some of these commentators have told only the bare facts without suggesting the reasons why Martin might have indulged in such behavior. They have also left a false impression about the range of his activities.

    Martin and I were away more often than we were at home; and while this was no excuse for extramarital relations, it was a reason. Some men are better able to bear such deprivations than others, though all of us in SCLC headquarters had our weak moments. We all understood and believed in the biblical prohibition against sex outside of marriage. It was just that he had a particularly difficult time with that temptation.

    In addition to his personal vulnerability, he was also a man who attracted women, even when he didn’t intend to, and attracted them in droves. Part of his appeal was his predominant role in the black community and part of it was personal. During the last ten years of his life, Martin Luther King was the most important black man in America. That fact alone endowed him with an aura of power and greatness that women found very appealing. He was a hero — the greatest hero of his age — and women are always attracted to a hero.

    But he also had a personal charm that ingratiated him with members of the opposite sex. He was always gracious and courteous to women, whether they were attractive to him or not. He had perfect manners. He was well educated. He was warm and friendly. He could make them laugh. He was good company, something that cannot always be said of heroes. These qualities made him even more attractive in close proximity than he was at a distance.

    Then, too, Martin’s own love of women was apparent in ways that could not be easily pinpointed — but which women clearly sensed, even from afar. I remember on more than one occasion sitting on a stage and having Martin turn to me to say, “Do you see that woman giving me the eye, the one in the red dress?” I wouldn’t be able to pick her out at such a distance, but already she had somehow conveyed to him her attraction and he in turn had responded to it. Later I would see them talking together, as if they had known one another forever. I was always a little bewildered at how strongly and unerringly this mutual attraction operated.

    A recent biography has suggested without quite saying so that Martin had affairs with white women as well as black. Such a suggestion is without foundation. I can say with the greatest confidence that he was never attracted to white women and had nothing to do with them, despite the opportunities that may have presented themselves.

    Of course, J. Edgar Hoover became preoccupied with Martin’s private life early in the civil rights movement, and this preoccupation was a significant factor in Hoover’s pathological hatred of him and the movement he headed. Early in the game the FBI began to bug our various hotel rooms, hoping to discover our strategy but also to gather evidence that could be used against Martin personally.

    I remember in particular a stay at the Willard Hotel in Washington, where they not only put in audio receivers, but video equipment as well. Then, after collecting enough of this “evidence” to be useful, they began to distribute it to reporters, law officers, and other people in a position to hurt us. Finally, when no one would do Hoover’s dirty work for him, someone in the FBI put together a tape of highly intimate moments and sent them to Martin. Unfortunately — and perhaps this was deliberate — [his wife] Coretta received the tape and played it first. But such accusations never seemed to touch her. She rose above all the petty attempts to damage their marriage by refusing to even entertain such thoughts.”

    http://www.snopes.com/history/american/mlking.asp

    King’s still a million times the better man than you, Adolf.

  • Bones

    You’re worse than shit.

  • In your dreams, and dont have a religion. You sir (gulp) – are a fine example of how people get it wrong on so many levels.
    ” But he that doeth wrong shall receive for the wrong which he hath done: and there is no respect of persons.” (Colossians 3:25)

  • Bones

    Lol…you don’t have a religion.

    Of course you do dickhead.

    Yours involves lying and posting memory verses to cover up your own lies.

  • raven nevermore

    Palestinians comes from a variety of human races. Arabs don’t even want anything to do with them. It is not, therefore, whether they are people. by and large they are not peaceful people. It is not wise to support people that desire to kill others just because the other exists. No other group in the Middle East wants the Palestinian people around, but, Israel is willing to give some land of Israel’s own to them. The land has never belonged to the Palestinians.

  • Nothing to see here….just repetitive gibberish of self descriptions

    “Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.” (Ephesians 4:29)

  • “Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:” (Colossians 2:16)

    Your word selection is a projection of yourself.

  • Strongs119

    Unfortunately for you, unlike the random caucusoid male and “equatorial African” female skeletons found near the Dead Sea, the clothed 1st century BC male with the REDDISH COLOR hair, (see link below,) is CONFIRMED as being an Israelite BECAUSE his remains were discovered in tomb located next to the tomb of Annas, the high priest (6-15 C.E.), in a first-century C.E. cemetery outside Jerusalem known as Akeldama or ‘Field of Blood.’ Annas was the father in law of Caiaphas, the high priest who betrayed Jesus to the Romans. It is thus thought that this shrouded man was either an Israelite priest or member of the aristocracy.

    http://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/daily/ancient-cultures/ancient-israel/the-only-ancient-jewish-hair-ever-found/

    http://www.eretz.com/NEW/postdiscoveries.php

  • Herm

    Ed, as a realist what dots do you have to connect in regards to John 14:15-21? There is nothing there that says our relationship is founded on faith alone. “But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.” I know him. I don’t have faith that he exists but I do have faith, as I did for my carnal parents, that he knows to teach me, to provide for me and to nurture me.

    There is no covenant with the Jewish people. Their Holy of Holies no longer resides in any of their temples as it did when their authorities sat on the Moses Seat.

    No Ed, I do not see you as a realist but as one who does not understand that the only way we worship God is from within God in spirit. All children of God, each a heart, soul, strength, mind that is bound in all love with the Lord their God who is spirit and no longer subject to the authority of this earth.

    As a realist do you really believe that Jesus with all authority in heaven and on earth is waiting to return? In the Holy Spirit He is here and administering the well being of all the children of God on earth, today and for the last 1,984 years.

    All His promises you have read in your Bible was either shortly or now.

    Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”

    John 4:23-24 (NIV2011)

    All that God is working with and in, according to our Father’s will, including the temple raised in three days, is spirit, not carnal.

  • Bones

    Lol wrong again Adolf. Read the whole article instead of being a complete dishonest prick.

    The accepted assumption has been that early Hebrews resembled the people now living in the Middle East or the Mediterranean Basin. However, an Israeli anthropologist researching the question has now made a surprising claim: the subjects of the Kingdom of Judea in the Second Temple Period looked more like black Africans. This theory arose after Prof. Yair Ben David of Tel-Aviv University conducted the first-ever facial reconstruction of its kind.

    There goes your white Aryan Israelis.

  • “Judge not, that ye be not judged.
    For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.” (Matthew 7:1-2)

    Which is why your words are totally meaningless.

  • raven nevermore

    Well, I would not go that far. I read some of his other articles. I think he is highly influenced first by social contemporary norms or frame of references, then, his Christian spirituality. But, I do not know him. I have no problem referring him as an intellectual bigot.

  • Strongs119

    I’ll repeat for you as you are incredibly slow. How is it possible for one male of White Caucusoid features and one female of equatorial African (Negroid) features, to both represent the Israelite race? They are obviously two individuals from two different races, one caucusoid, one Negro, wondering around the dead sea.

    Now how about you address the 1st Century BC Israelite with REDDISH COLOR HAIR, discovered in a tomb next to the tomb of Annas, the high priest (6-15 C.E.), in a first-century C.E. cemetery outside Jerusalem known as Akeldama, and thought to be either an Israelite priest or member of the Israelite aristocracy.

    There goes your “the Israelites were Black African Negroes” crackpot theory, LMAO !!

    http://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/daily/ancient-cultures/ancient-israel/the-only-ancient-jewish-hair-ever-found/

    http://www.eretz.com/NEW/postdiscoveries.php

  • Bones

    HAIR.

    The hair of the ancient Hebrews was generally black (comp. Cant. iv. 1, v. 11). In Eccl. xi. 10 black hair is designated as a sign of youth in contrast with the white hair of age. Josephus narrates (“Ant.” xvi. 8, § 1) that Herod dyed his gray hair black in order to appear younger. Black hair was in any case considered beautiful, black being the general color, while light or blond hair was exceptional. David is designated as “admoni” = “ruddy” (I Sam. xvi. 12, xvii. 42), this expression being also applied to Esau’s hair (Gen. xxv. 25). The Hebrews had thick hair (Ezek. viii. 3). Long, heavy hair was considered as a sign of vitality. In the case of Samson, traced back to religious reasons (he having been dedicated to God), the connection of long hair and bodily strength was based on the current views. Absalom’s famous hair (II Sam. xiv. 25 et seq.) was considered not only as an ornament, but as a token of strength. A bald head, therefore, was an object of mockery (II Kings ii. 23; comp. Isa. iii. 17, 24).

    Anthropology:
    Among Jews the color of the hair has attracted special attention because, while the majority have dark hair, there is found a considerable proportion with blond and red hair, as shown by the appended table (No. 1):

    Table No. 1: Color of Hair Among 145,380 Jewish School Children.
    Country. Number. Percentage. Observer.
    __________________________
    Blond. Brown. Black. Red.
    Austria 59,808 27.0 55.4 16.9 0.6 Schimmer.
    Bavaria 7,054 30.0 50.0 20.0 … Major
    Germany 75,377 32.03 54.39 11.46 0.42 Virchow.
    Hungary 3,141 23.7 57.0 19.3 … Körösi.
    From these figures it is seen that the proportion of dark hair (black and brown) is quite high—66 per cent in Germany, and reaching 76.3 per cent in Hungary. The proportion of fair hair is lowest in Hungary (23.7 per cent) and highest in Germany (32 per cent). In a fair proportion of blond-haired children the hair becomes darker as age advances; it is therefore essential to take observations upon adults. In the appended table (No. 2) are given the results of investigations upon Jews of both sexes and in various parts of the world:

    Table No. 2: Color of Hair Among 7,505 Jews.
    Country. Number. Percentage. Observer.
    _____________________
    Dark. Fair. Red.
    Ashkenazim (Men).
    Baden 86 84.9 12.8 2.3 Ammon.
    Caucasia 251 96.0 2.0 2.0 Pantukhof.
    England 372 73.8 25.5 0.7 Jacobs.
    Galicia 943 74.54 21.10 4.36 Majer and Kopernicki.
    Poland 200 96.81 0.53 2.66 Elkind.
    Russia 100 68.0 32.0 …. Blechman.
    938 75.79 20.05 4.16 Talko-Hryncewicz.
    100 83.0 13.0 4.0 Weissenberg.
    245 87.29 12.70 …. Yakowenko.
    Various 290 93.0 3.5 3.5 Beddoe.
    1,188 83.49 13.98 2.53 Fishberg.
    Ashkenazim (Women).
    Galicia 25 76.0 20.0 …. Majer and Kopernicki.
    Poland 125 86.4 8.0 5.6 Elkind.
    Russia 799 83.1 14.0 2.9 Talko-Hryncewicz.
    41 83.0 14.6 2.4 Weissenberg.
    100 93.0 7.0 …. Yakowenko.
    Various 1,084 80.17 16.14 3.69 Fishberg.
    Sephardim.
    Bosnia 55 79.6 18.5 1.8 Glück.
    England 51 88.1 11.9 …. Jacobs.
    Italy 103 96.0 4.8 …. Lombroso.
    34 88.2 11.8 …. Livi.
    Various 375 95.3 2.6 1.1 Beddoe.
    Red Hair.
    The figures in this table show again that dark hair predominates. The percentage of blond Jews varies only slightly, but is greatest in those countries in which the non-Jewish population is blond. Thus in northern Russia (the Baltic Provinces) Blechman found 32 per cent of blonds; in England, according to Jacobs, 25.5 per cent have blond hair.

    On the other hand, in Caucasia, where the natives are dark, the Jews show 96 per cent of dark hair. The proportion of red hair is also quite high, reaching 4 per cent in some observations. This has been considered characteristic of the Jews by some anthropologists. It appears to be not of recent origin, and was not unknown among the ancient Hebrews (Esau was “red, all over like a hairy garment”; Gen. xxv. 25).

    Races are also differentiated, more or less, by straight, curly, or woolly hair. Among the Jews the distribution of these varieties of hair is shown in the following table (No. 3):

    Table No. 3: Variety of Hair Among Jews.
    Variety of Hair. Blechman. Weissenberg. Yakowenko. Elkind. Majer and Kopernicki. Fishberg. Glück.
    Straight 36 84 64.90 97.0 96.56 66.97 52.9
    Wavy 36 14 25.71 1.0 2.6 25.66
    Curly 28 2 9.39 2.0 0.84 7.37 47.1
    The next table (No. 4) shows that the beard is usually darker than the hair:

    Table No. 4: Color of the Beard.
    Color. Authority.
    ________________________________________
    Blechman. Weissenberg. Fishberg. Yakowenko.
    Dark 61.0 73.0 63.72 74.97
    Fair 36.0 15.0 25.38 13.23
    Red 3.0 12.0 10.90 11.8
    By comparing these figures with those in No. 2 it is found that in the beard the proportion of light to dark is much higher. The number of red beards also increases perceptibly.

    Hair of Jewesses.
    The differences in the color of the hair between the sexes have also been investigated. Jacobs shows that the Jewesses in England have darker hair. Similar observations have been made by Weissenberg in South Russia, by Talko-Hryncewicz in Little Russia, by Yakowenko in Lithuania, and by Majer and Kopernicki in Galicia. On the other hand, Elkind in Poland and Fishberg in America have found conditions different: the males have darker hair than the females.

    Cause of Blond Hair.
    The true explanation of the existence of Jewish blonds has been the subject of lively discussions among anthropologists. Some believe that it is due to climate and environment (Pruner, Bey, Pritchard, Jacobs), while others attribute it to racial intermixture, particularly to the admission of Aryan blood into modern Jewry (Broca, Virchow, Schimmer, Ripley, and others). Elkind shows that the color of the hair is independent of the cranial index. Virchow’s investigations show that in the eastern or darkest provinces of Germany the proportion of blond types among Jews does not decrease; whereas in the Prussian provinces, which are predominantly blond, the Jews show the highestproportion of brunettes, and in Silesia, where the non-Jewish population is of very dark complexion, the Jews have a high percentage of blonds. The same has been shown by Schimmer to be the case in Austria. Andree (“Zur Volkskunde der Juden,” pp. 34-40) points out that the fact that red and blond Jews are found in North Africa, Syria, Arabia, Persia, etc., is proof that intermarriage has had little to do with the production of the blond type in eastern Europe. He is of the opinion that there were blonds among the ancient Hebrews, and that the modern red and blond Jews are their descendants. Luschan agrees in this view. Jacobs attributes the erythrism of the Jews to defective nutrition, and shows that it is present not only among the European Jews, but also among those in Algiers, Tunis, Bosnia, Constantinople, Smyrna, and Bokhara, where the presence of Aryan blood could not be admitted.

    http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/7061-hair

    The Jews were’t Aryans, Adolf.

  • Bones

    Lol…..you came on here to judge others…

    f##k off charlatan.

  • Bones

    Yeah you’re just repeating yourself over and over.

    All to try and justify your lies about others.

    You should actually read those verses some time.

  • Bones

    I’ll repeat again for you Adolf…..

    “The accepted assumption has been that early Hebrews resembled the people now living in the Middle East or the Mediterranean Basin. However, an Israeli anthropologist researching the question has now made a surprising claim: the subjects of the Kingdom of Judea in the Second Temple Period looked more like black Africans. This theory arose after Prof. Yair Ben David of Tel-Aviv University conducted the first-ever facial reconstruction of its kind.”

    There goes your Aryan Jesus.

    Your racial bullshit has been seen before.

  • Ever hear of discernment? Thought not – capacity limited

  • Scratching the bottom….familiar territory?

    Nothing original, nor deep and meaningful to offer mmm?
    Just more of the same so will take advice from God’s Word.

    “But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
    And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;” (2 Timothy 2:16-17)

  • Bones

    Lol…

    Jews can have red hair, blonde hair but mostly have dark hair.

    And yeah there are black Jews…

    Bad luck for your Aryan racist theories.

  • Bones

    Yes…I could discern very easily that you were a lying charlatan.

    I’m pretty good at spotting you type.

  • Bones

    Hey I’d like to say it’s been nice chatting to you, a known deceitful liar and hater of those who don’t describe to your propaganda but that would be a lie.

    I have better things to do with my life, than read your justifications for why you are a lying charlatan.

    I’ll be back to read your sad self-righteous posts when I’ve finished playing with my kids.

  • Jeff Preuss

    “It is not, therefore, whether they are people.” Yes. Yes, it is.

    What a load of bigoted crap. Thanks for letting us know your rhetoric in such a small handful of comments. Easier to avoid engagement with you from this moment on.

  • Good to know someone else will benefit from your childish attitude

    “Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.” (Ephesians 4:29)

  • And you sir, have showed a distinct lack ever being qualified to make any assessment of Spiritual character or otherwise.

    With no evidence presented other ramblings of repetitive mindless and pointless accusations – its has been very much like canine waste stuck to my sandal.

    Speaking of your SPOTting

    “And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. SPOTS they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you;” (2 Peter 2:13)

  • Strongs119

    FIRST: Contemporary Jews are not descended from the 12 Tribes of Israel, they are Edomite converts to Judaism, a consequence of Johanan Hyrcanus’ forced conversion of Idumea to Judaism in 130BC, recorded by Flavius Josephus in Antiquities of the Jews Book 13, Chapter 9, Section 1.
    http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0146%3Abook%3D13%3Awhiston+chapter%3D9%3Awhiston+section%3D1

    SECOND: How can Israelites have blonde or red hair and at the same time have Black skin, (LOL!!!) as you hilariously claim they do! How many Blonde and Red headed African Negroes have you seen? I haven’t seen a single one.

    You see, its really very simple, the remains of that 1st Century BC Israelite male had RED COLOR hair, and African Negroes DON’T HAVE Red color hair. http://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/daily/ancient-cultures/ancient-israel/the-only-ancient-jewish-hair-ever-found/

    There goes your “Black African Negroes WUZ Israelites nnnn sheeeeit” theory.

  • raven nevermore

    The Ben article is namely about land, i.e., Israel the country, not entirely about people.

  • Herm

    You really didn’t study the Fertile Crescent did you? You’ve got your superiority all figured out with your willy nilly mix and match. You have no clue what it is to be a disciple of Christ when you can’t emulate this before all:

    The greatest among you will be your servant. For those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.

    Matthew 23:11-12 (NIV2011)

    You’re out to hang others on their cross. You don’t carry your own.

  • Strongs119

    In your two comments to me you have rushed to post judgement on my character and even taken it upon yourself to deem me as someone who has quote, “no clue of what it is to be a disciple of Christ.” You said that I feel superior, when I never said any such thing, and you pointed me to Matthew 23:11-12, wrongly implying that I exalt myself above others. You also accuse me of seeking to hang others on the cross, trust me, I do not. Who am I, to hang others on a cross? Please try being a little bit less judgemental of your fellow baptised Christian brothers and sisters. Matthew 7:5 comes to mind.

    When I wrote my previous reply to you, I felt your statement that I was “spewing hate” to be unfair, and so the tone of my reply wasn’t kind, for this I apologize. Let me set the record straight, I am grateful for the undeserved mercy that the Lord Jesus Christ has bestowed upon me, I absolutely do not view myself superior to a single other person. Admittedly I detest, and view as vile, evil, scum of the earth, those who engage in animal cruelty, rapists, paedophiles, and anyone who physically, mentally or financially abuses the weak, naive and powerless.

  • Barrie Beaumont

    As a Degree and continuing Christian Theology student, my written assignments must always contain information from an academic, or a recognised proven source of knowledge. Footnotes and a bibliography must be provided for checking purposes. You have provided your primary source and a lot of generalised statements without naming secondary sources.

    If partial, biased (prejudiced) sources are used for the purpose of argument, they must be balanced by im-partial, un- biased (non prejudiced) sources.

    In my reply comment to Ahmed you replied that my comment was flawed, namely that the Bible is not a record of history. I had to push you for an answer and you finally supplied one, albeit from a partial and biased (prejudiced) source, certainly not an impartial source.

    All that you have written includes criticism of some Old Testament content but, you contradict yourself with “it is generally accepted that (….) there is genuine historical evidence in the BOOKS of SAMUEL. That section does continue that some sections need examing but there is NO DATE to verify when this work was written and whether opinion has been changed one way or the other.

    It is apparent that you do not adopt fair rules to win the point.

    The Jewish Virtual Library (JVL) from which you obtained your information, is an online encylopedia published by the American-Israeli Cooperative Enterprise(AICE), one of whose “principal objectives is to enhance Israel’s image by publicising NOVEL Israeli approaches to problems(…..)and illustrating how Americans can learn from these innovations.”

    My source of this information is “wikipedia” which clearly states where JVL obtains its information in the OVERVIEW.

    You have used information from an American Jewish organisation formed for a specific purpose. I do not deny the historic content within the website, but the website is ‘tainted’ by its purpose. Moreover you have chosen a partial source when you could have just as easily selected a more acceptable site. You chose the site that suited you best.

    The Jews have their “Tannach” and the Christian community in which I believe and belong, have the Bible.

    The Christian Bible, is to Christians’, a historic record. No question about it. It is not desirable and inappropriate to use it as an argument to compare the beliefs that separate Christians and Jews. Is that is what you have attempted to do?

    If you reply please do so free of coarse language.

    I am almost eighty, I lived all my life in Australia and I have never heard the word “merkin”.

  • Strongs119

    I stated the creation date of Adam at 4004BC, and asked for your comment on how the Negroid and Oriental races could possibly descend from Adam when archaeological discoveries such as Ethiopian Australopithecus afarensis fossil “Lucy,” the genus homo seen in Ethiopian Omo fossils, Ethiopian Homo sapiens idaltu fossils, and Lunadong cave teeth, showed their ancestors roamed the earth hundreds of thousands of years before Adam’s creation.

    You never addressed these contradictions, instead you ignored my question completely, and pivoted to character attacks, which tells me that you have no explanation.

  • Herm

    Your character is divisive when you separate mankind from another. I did not rush to judgement when you were judging others as not of mankind the same as the Son of Man, the only begotten Son of God.

    Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.” So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them.

    Genesis 1:26-27 (NIV2011)

    God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”

    John 4:24 (NIV2011)

    All of the animal species on earth, known as mankind, is like one another because they each share the gifted image of God, which is spirit not physical. There is no other species on earth who shares the awareness or pursuit of spirit. The obvious difference between Man in spirit and God in spirit is one is fragmented into tribes protecting tribes and the Other is united in one another filled by the Holy Spirit.

    Jesus had to be filled, as when of Man, by the Holy Spirit appearing as a dove. Baptism means no more than to be filled and or immersed. Sprinkling and immersion in water does not make us siblings in God. Even as an educated authority in the Christian Church on earth, qualified to perform all sacraments, all the while communing with the Holy Spirit since I was 17, I was not baptized by the Holy Spirit until I was 50 that I asked and was accepted to be fully immersed in the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit in me, full time without pause forever more.

    The invitation is open to you equally as it was for me. I am not special asking for you to believe me as any more of an authority than as a very little child of God. I know the Teacher in me and I in Him so well that I am comfortable in inviting you to go to Him as your teacher, also. Oh, I know the Bible very well. Since having been filled by the Spirit of truth I know that the Bible is not the word of God. I use the Bible for students of the Bible to help them see where and to whom the Bible is pointing to as the faithful source to learn of and from the truth. I easily and boldly speak the word of God as I am taught by the Teacher who is instructed by Christ and my heavenly Father. So could you very possibly even better than I. Most will know that you have been baptized by the Holy Spirit when your efforts are to unite and not divide. You will then recognize all in God by their spirit and your place in the family of God that moment.

    Do you hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters—yes, even your own life?

  • Herm

    Civilization and hoarding did not begin until about 9,000 years ago in the Fertile Crescent. There were no farmers, Cain, or ranchers, Able, until that time. You got the modern Man beginning right at about 195,000 years ago. None of it matters relative to the one unique attribute of the animal species mankind compared to all other forms of life known on earth. That attribute is the image of God which is spirit and not physical that allows us to “rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground

    Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”

    Genesis 1:26 (NIV2011)

    There is no other species on earth that is aware of or pursues an interest in the spirit. Your divisive quest to separate any of Man from one another is not at all like the Spirit of God who unites all in God as family today. Your sources are not from the Teacher and cannot be in the Spirit of truth.

  • Strongs119

    Your claim that modern man began 195,000 years ago does not align with the creation date of Adam, which has been set at 4004BC. These bipeds roaming the earth 195,000 years ago could only have been pre-Adamic races.

    Evidence of the existence of pre-Adamites is found in Genesis 4:14 and Genesis 4:17. After Adam’s wife Eve gave birth to Cain and Abel in Genesis 4:1 no other child of Eve is mentioned until the birth of Seth, when Adam was 130 years old, most scholars agree this was over 100 years after the birth of Cain and Abel.

    Where then did the persons that Cain feared would slay him in Genesis 4:14 come from, and where did Cain’s wife in Genesis 4:17 come from? These were the pre-Adamic races, the city that Cain founded in Genesis 4:17, was built for these pre-Adamites.

    Any suggestion that Adam and Eve may have had other children after the birth of Cain and Abel, PRIOR to the birth of Seth in Genesis 5:3 and that these were the people Cain feared would slay him, (or that his wife in Genesis 4:17. was one of these people) is disproven by Genesis 4:25 “And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew.”

    If Adam’s wife had numerous other children in the 100 years before Seth was born she would not have said that God “hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel” in Genesis 4:25 [with reference to Seth] as her numerous other seed could’ve and would’ve already replaced Abel.

  • Strongs119

    You lost me when you wrote, “Since having been filled by the Spirit of truth I know that the Bible is not the word of God.” When you say that “you know the bible is not the word of God” then what is the foundation of your Christianity? Your own opinions, thoughts, intuitions? It sounds almost as if you fancy yourself a prophet that doesn’t need the bible but speaks directly to God. That is heresy. You need to get back to basics, i.e. you need to understand that the bible is the word of God, it is the very the basis and foundation of Christianity!

  • Barrie Beaumont

    Because that is the “land that God promised and gave to them in perpetuity.
    Genesis 15: 5-21. Exodus 23: 22-33.

  • Barrie Beaumont

    Agree.

  • The Jack of Sandwich

    What does that have to do with the modern nation of Israel?

    If God allowed them to lose that land, why are we responsible for giving the same land back to them?

  • Bones

    Complete bs.

    Another one who doesn’t give a f##k about Palestinians but uses the Bible to justify oppression.

    You’re a merkin, mate.

  • Bones

    Yeah, Barrie won’t be giving his house to any Aborigines, who only had the land for 50 000 years.

    Because it ain’t in the Bible.

  • Bones

    Have you given your land back to the native Aborigines?

    They have far more claim to title than the Israelites.

    Only an extra 50000 years.

    What a stupid way you read the Bible.

  • Bones

    Israel doesn’t want the Palestinians either.

    You do know that, right?

    They want them gone.

  • Herm

    NO, NO, NO! The foundation of Christianity for all disciples of the Messiah is Christ! The Christian Bible was not assemble in its form today until the fourth century. The following happened well within the first century:

    After they prayed, the place where they were meeting was shaken. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and spoke the word of God boldly.

    Acts 4:31 (NIV2011)

    This is Jesus’ parting words shortly before His ascension:

    “I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. He will glorify me because it is from me that he will receive what he will make known to you. All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will receive from me what he will make known to you.”

    John 16:12-15 (NIV2011)

    This was the big picture that can only occur in the spirit the we each are responsible to in the image of God:

    “If you love me, keep my commands. And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you. I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you. Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them.”

    John 14:15-21 (NIV2011)

    The man Jesus, the only begotten Son of God, had to be filled (immersed/baptized) with the Holy Spirit before our heavenly Father would recognize Him before the world:

    Just as Jesus was coming up out of the water, he saw heaven being torn open and the Spirit descending on him like a dove. And a voice came from heaven: “You are my Son, whom I love; with you I am well pleased.”

    Mark 1:10-11 (NIV2011)

    Only in the Spirit of truth and the Spirit of truth in you can you find the Rock, the foundation that Jesus builds His church on (which is spirit not physical).

    This is the blinder that you have that is keeping you from seeing to accept the Advocate as your teacher as you grow as a child of God today, not some distant time yet to come:

    “I have testimony weightier than that of John. For the works that the Father has given me to finish—the very works that I am doing—testify that the Father has sent me. And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me. You have never heard his voice nor seen his form, nor does his word dwell in you, for you do not believe the one he sent. You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me, yet you refuse to come to me to have life.

    John 5:36-40 (NIV2011)

    I have heard his voice and seen his form for the one He sent is in me and I in him. This can be true for you equally if in all humility you seek, knock and ask God directly for Them to serve you in all truth. Children of God who have nothing without God don’t serve the Lord and the Father who already have all available to serve Their children.

    This is the first certain lesson we students (disciples) learn from God:

    “But you are not to be called ‘Rabbi,’ for you have one Teacher, and you are all brothers. And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and he is in heaven. Nor are you to be called instructors, for you have one Instructor, the Messiah. The greatest among you will be your servant. For those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.

    Matthew 23:8-12 (NIV2011)

    I have nothing to give God, but my spirit (in Their image) heart, soul, strength and mind in all love, that They do not already have. Is the organized Christian church on earth serving you or asking that you serve them in the name of God? Did the Pharisees and teachers of the law serve their parishioners or did they demand they be served in the name of God? Was not it those most scholarly people in the study of God, the authorities sitting on the Moses Seat, who were most responsible for crucifying the Son of God in God’s name?

    Love the Lord your God, your good neighbor, yourself and your enemy (never an eye for an eye as the Levite priests wrote in the name of God) and let God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit take it from there.

  • Bones

    Complete bs.

    Israel has been expanding into the West Bank for decades.

    How about some Muslims kick your arse out of your house and see how you feel.

  • Bones

    Typical Baptist nonsense

    The Jewish Virtual Library is a source of information on Israel and Judaism. You obviously didn’t like that. Simple fact is that is the consensus among Hebrew scholars.

    Israel Finkelstein (the author of the Bible Unearthed) is Professor of Archaeology of Israel in the Bronze and Iron Ages at Tel Aviv University who has spent his life working on ancient biblical sites.

    You didn’t have to push me for an answer. I’ll give it readily enough. I just didn’t see it.

    I have plenty of posts to get through not just yours.

    Btw it’s Tanakh not Tannach whatever the hell that’s supposed to be.

    And you’re a merkin who finds more offence in swear words then families being brutally forced out of their homes.

    And yes I know Palestinian Christians that has happened to.

    And you support it.

    You’re a disgrace and should be ashamed of yourself.

    But I know you’ll try and hide behind your Bible.

  • Bones

    Does that include liars like yourself…..

  • Bones

    Yes we must have the correct interpretation so we can excuse state violence.

    Nah, f**k off.

    There are people here who know Palestinians and have been to Palestine and don’t need a ‘bibliography’ or ‘respected commentary’.

  • The Jack of Sandwich

    And the problem is how Israel the country is treating people in the land it occupies.

  • Herm

    Genesis is Moses writing down the campfire stories before him. All is in the form of metaphor and was never intended to be taken literally but in spirit. Chapter one and two of the creation story were clearly not written at the same time.

    You are writing inspired by God but without God as your teacher. Your teacher is a book that was written by many different people inspired by God, some with God’s help and some as you are writing now. Scripture serves a purpose to point you to God; not to teach you who God is. It is a guide book on your journey that once you have reached your destination serves no purpose except to share it with those who have yet to reach their destination.

    God is real and God lives. All physical life is finite, all spiritual life is infinite. The dead know nothing.

    Cain is representative of the first farmers. Able is representative of the first ranchers. The originators of the creation story, that Moses chronicled, were outsiders to the new civilization.

    The earth was fully populated 9,000 years ago by an animal species graced the image of God who was already ruling over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.

    The Old and New Testaments are just that testaments. Testaments to the relationship between God and Man, written by Man not God. It is testified to that God can legibly write if They choose both in stone and sand. God is not dependent on others to speak for Them. I do not speak for Them but point to Them, for others to come to, as the living and faithful word of God eternally sufficient.

  • Valkyrie Ziege

    ; Is that some sort of justification?

  • Valkyrie Ziege

    ; Genocide in the name of the lord.

  • Valkyrie Ziege

    ; Yes, and according to German law, they’re not supposed to admit any anti-semitic persons into their country, but they’re admitting Muhammadans, by the hundreds-of-thousands, who are openly anti-semitic as per the instructions of their peaceful religion.

  • Ron McPherson

    Ben is absolutely NOT Calvinist. Plus, he’s for human LIFE. Period! The reason he is focusing on Israel’s atrocities is due to American professing Christians absolving those atrocities in the name of biblicism. That’s the issue.

  • raven nevermore

    I understand what he is saying. However, I’m making the claim that such a premise is an exaggeration. From my sphere, the subject of absolving Israel of misdeeds is nearly ever brought up. When it is, it is by bleeding liberals that have a bias toward the subject. Maybe even bordering on fake news. They just talk about, as Ben has, without much more content. I do not think it is as pronounced or serious as Ben says it is.

  • raven nevermore

    I’m not going to dignify that with much more of a responds. It is the fruited plain, as Rush Limbaugh likes to call the US. Search, also, all the inventions Israel has given the world.

  • raven nevermore

    No, I do not know that. They want the dirtbags that want to kill them to be gone.

  • Ron McPherson

    Aside from Ben’s concern for preserving human life, what other motivation would he have? Or for that matter, even a “bleeding liberal” whatever that’s supposed to mean? And on what basis do you believe the premise of siding with Israel regardless of the circumstances is an exaggeration? I live in the Bible Belt and I can tell you without question that in large doses Israel is ALWAYS presumed to be the “good guys” while Palestinians are viewed as the bad guys. My gosh, I’m 53 and have been taught it my whole life. The view results largely from the mindset that literal Israel will forever be God’s chosen people so we should not dare to oppose them in any shape, form, or fashion lest something terrible befall us for doing so

  • The Jack of Sandwich

    So if Israel has produced some great inventions(like most nations have) you’re willing to ignore their human rights abuses?

  • raven nevermore

    Fair comeback. It is an exaggeration based on news stories that affirm the kindness Israel shows to, namely, Palestinians that want to live peacefully with them. Yes, there are some Christians that claim Israel can do no wrong. Those, also, ignore reality. But i do not want to get into beating a dead horse on this; no circles.

    However, when you get into the idea that Israel today are not God’s people – that concept it rooted in Calvinism. Like a lot of Christians today, they do not understand what and why they believe, in what they believe. I’m sure that too can be exaggerated without an end. This isn’t the time for Calvinism, however, I become suspect of ideas rooted in Calvinism. Ben has been influenced by Calvinist theology about the land of Israel. Ok, I’m showing my bias against Calvinism.

  • raven nevermore

    See my two responses to Ron. I am, nonetheless, willing to ignore some, but not because of what they invented. Their alleged human rights abuses are exaggerated because of the bias of the news media which is not favorable to Israel. I have always wondered why? Since the bigoted narrow minded media is biased, it can be deducted that the media is anti-Semitic. Why? I really want to know that.

  • The Jack of Sandwich

    Then why bring up Rush and the things that Israel invented, if you weren’t trying to use it to excuse their human rights abuses that you assert are exaggerated.

    Why would the news media be exaggerating? I don’t know. Maybe it’s Rush that’s lying to you.

  • raven nevermore

    i mention the inventions to demonstrate a juxtaposed view, not to compare but to contrast that Israel is not as bad as Ben or the media says. We can compare news sources for truth and reality – they do not contradict. perhaps that is the mindset Rush comes from, if so, I trust his analysis since his critics claim he is correct 99% of the time. Eventually we have to use trust to a degree about everything, then facts often are very close behind jumping out to be noticed; or it is reversed too, facts then trust. Not always easy but it gets better with experience. That’s how i know.

  • Ron McPherson

    But Ben is staunchly anti-Calvinist. I would submit that his motivation is to stress that Christ followers should be consistent on preserving human life at all costs without regards to nationalistic borders, race, religion, or cultural bias. Just my two cents. Anyway, peace

  • Ron McPherson

    I have voluminous amounts of commentaries, and they can be useful. But I’ve found that spiritual truth comes from the Spirit. Commentaries can be helpful, but can also be dangerous if used as if they’re infallible. They’re certainly not to displace one’s reliance on the Spirit for sure. Plus, you can find plenty different ones with wide and varying theological viewpoints so should never be viewed as if one is biblically limited unless they rely on them. Should never be used as a crutch nor should one be dependent upon them.

  • Bones

    If you don’t have any thing written by ched myers or elaine pagels you’ve got nothing.

  • Bones

    Bible commentaries simply regurgitate what the text is saying especially the evangelical types..

    They have to be read in conjunction with archaeology.

  • Bones

    I’ve completely destroyed your aryan jesus theory, adolf.

    Back to Nuremberg for you.

  • Bones

    You’re an idiot.

    Calvinists hate everyone.

    And no not everyone who criticises Israel is a Calvinist.

    Lol why would anyone want to support the Palestinian people?

    Because they’re human beings.

  • Bones

    You’re the bigot who doesn’t even see why Palestinians should be helped.

  • Bones

    It’s people like you who ignore Israel”s behaviour in the West Bank.

    My friend was forced out of his house at gunpoint then had it bulldozed and the land given to settlers.

    Take your stupid Calvinist rubbish elsewhere.

  • Bones

    Hitler invented some cool stuff too.

  • Bones

    That’s why they’re kicking them out of their houses and settling in their land.

    Stop being an idiot.

  • Bones

    Nope.

    Not exaggerated.

    I know people it’s happened to.

    You couldn’t give a shit about them.

  • Bones

    Actually I talk to people who live there and have been there.
    Not propagandists like you who talk out of their arse.

  • Bones

    Lol.

    You’re using the old testament to justify the existence of the modern democratic state of Israel.

    I bet you’re a settler.

  • The Jack of Sandwich

    Did you get to read the comment Bruce was replying to before it was deleted?

    Bruce “would not go that far”, but he apparently saw SOMETHING to agree with in a commenter who popped in to do nothing but hurl a homophobic slur.

  • Bones

    On this issue.

    Studying with Palestinian students in seminary.

  • Bones

    Nope….you’re not more special than anyone else.

  • Bones

    Huh….what’s gays got to do with it.

    He described Corey as an intellectual bigot while at the same time not giving a shit about palestinians.

  • Bones

    Muslims and Jews have lived side by side centuries. Some Muslims are anti-semitic……Most aren’t….Many are anti-Israeli. And a lot of that has come about since the Arab-Israel War. Only one European country’s Jewish population grew during WW2. Muslim Albania.

    http://www.yadvashem.org/yv/en/exhibitions/besa/

  • Bones

    Lol…Adam did not exist….our ancestors were African….

    I’d say your doing pretty well espousing racial theory for the nsdap but adama means earth.

    And since when does red =white?

    According to you, Adam must have been Native American.

    Oh and on the origins of skin colour…..

    “The first modern humans evolved about 200.000 years ago in Africa. When they lost their body hair (or at least most of it), they needed some other protection of their skin from the sun – otherwise they are prone to develop melanoma. Melanin is such a protection, and the rate of melanoma is much lower in dark skinned people. There is also a nice correlation between latitude and skin color – the more to the north (and to some degree to the south as well) you get, the lighter the skin color of the population gets. The reason for this is likely the better ability to synthesize Vitamin D (for which you need sunlight on the skin):

    The evolution of human skin coloration.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10896812
    The evolution of human skin and skin color.
    http://faculty.washington.edu/charles/562_f2011/Week%201/Jablonski%202004.pdf
    Development of different human skin colors: a review highlighting photobiological and photobiophysical aspects.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19481954
    North-South gradients of melanomas and non-melanomas: A role of vitamin D?
    https://www.landesbioscience.com/journals/dermatoendocrinology/article/23791/

    The lightening of the skin occurred after humans moved to Europe:
    http://mbe.oxfordjournals.org/content/30/1/24

    The Timing of Pigmentation Lightening in Europeans
    And we even know, that this occured more than once, since the genetic reasons for lighter skins are different between europeans and light skinned asians. A lot of this we know via sequence comparisions of genes involved in pigmentation, there you can trace mutations and see, where they show up first and how they migrate over time. One very good example is the melanocortin-1-receptor (MC1R), which is mutated pretty often in europeans (mutations in this gene are generally associated with lighter skin and hair color; people with red hair carry certain mutations in this gene) but its under selection pressure to not mutate in africa (there are almost no known mutations in MC1R for africans). Another example would be a mutation in the SLC24A5 gene, which is exclusively found in europeans, but not in asians and which accounts also for lighter skin. I stop here for the moment, if there are more specific question, go ahead.

    The genetic architecture of normal variation in human pigmentation: an evolutionary perspective and model
    http://hmg.oxfordjournals.org/content/15/suppl_2/R176.full
    Genetic Variation at the MC1R Locus and the Time since Loss of Human Body Hair”
    http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.1086/381006?uid=3737864&uid=2&uid=4&sid=21103303964991

    SLC24A5, a putative cation exchanger, affects pigmentation in zebrafish and humans.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16357253

  • Matthew

    All human beings are special. Period.

  • This coming from someone who has a plagiarist for his avatar.

    Edom is in modern jewry not Israel.

  • Nazi :)

    That’s short of Nazarene. Such as Jesus of Nazareth.

    Of course jews hate Nazarenes because they are Duet 23:2 Canaanites/Edomites.

  • Edom is in modern jewry not Israel.

  • There’s a difference between colonizing uninhabited land and genocide a local people.

    Have much in common with Barbara Lerner Specter?

  • Camp of the Saints.

    Israel is a people that migrated west into Europe and beyond, not a land mass.

    Isaiah 43:3

    ‘Israel’ is a Rothschild(Balfour deceleration) hub for global criminality. Edom is in modern jewry not Israel.

  • The Jack of Sandwich

    Neither America nor Palestine was uninhabited.

  • solutrean kennewick man, clovis point. The case is shut and dry. Only the anti Christ (((media))) promotes lies.

    christogenea

  • Yes Palestine was originally White Byzantium until the talmudic manufacture of islam and North America was inhabited by solutreans kennewick man, clovis point etc

    case closed.

  • You are welcome, my brother;-)

  • Jeff Preuss

    “This coming from someone who has a plagiarist for his avatar.”

    Not really sure when someone’s choice of avatar became a determining factor in the worth of their conversational input, but I’m going to consider the source of the criticism here…in your case, someone with a history of anti-Jewish, white nationalistic propaganda (on full display at your linked site), including apparently idolizing an actual Nazi.

    So, at the end of the day, you are the one with the defective line of thinking.

  • Ed Senter

    There is not one word in Revelation that is contrary to what Paul taught.

  • Ed Senter

    I am not old enough to be a “Zionist”; however, as a Bible student, I know people who identify themselves as “Jews” will have a prominent presence in and around Jerusalem at the time of the end. God is not done with Israel as a nation.

  • Mikey

    I’ve been to Israel a few times, gulf states and North Africa. I preferred Israel and found the folks there to be reasonable people, until something gets blown up. They recognized their internal problems with hard line Jews and most of them considered their settlers to be leeches on the state welfare system. Arabs were also friendly and would all probably get along if not for rable rousing and subsidies for trouble making on both sides.

  • NOTHIN WHAT HAPPEN TO THE PEOPLE IN THE OLDER SUBDIVISIONS/

  • seems to me the “problem” is not building, it’s “jews”

  • “freemason” ? is this some sort of bubaboo to you? hate Children’s hospitals?

  • that the Bible may not explicitly state that we are not to stand for Israel as Christians,

    Christians are all about Salvation games, and dissing jews for not converting

  • They would be “helped” if they weren’t paid to be refugees fro 4 generations

  • I would support them moving to some of the other 22 “arab” muslim countries

  • Pardon me, but 900,000 Jews were expelled from Arab lands, they lost everything including land that was 4 times the size of Israel

  • The “Palestinians” are treated better than most other arab countries

  • Hittler invented nothing

  • surely you jest. there are people who want
    to kill all Jews in Israel. and you never heard of self defense?

  • Most Settlements are being built in the desert, not in anybodies houses

  • Actually I’ve been there

  • Jesus is a hoax and said nothing. Anti-jewish statements in the NT led to the holocaust

  • some Christians aren’t happy that the Jews aren’t Christians . Are you so insecure that you want everybody to believe in your stupid myths?

  • malarkey

  • talmudic manufacture of islam and North America<–need we say more

  • Jesus is a hoax, he is the personification of lies

  • there was no original canaan border

  • there isn’t Oppression, do you define that as the refusal to disappear?

  • Chris , Balfour didn’t settle the land, the Jews did

  • The Jack of Sandwich

    Then I guess by Barrie’s logic modern Israel shouldn’t have any land either

  • Ed Senter

    Maybe your first mistake was going to seminary.

  • Ed Senter

    Read the rest of John 14: “I can not talk with you much longer, for the ruler of this world is coming…” That is the anti-christ. All of the apostles knew the son of perdition was coming. Jesus taught himself. Jesus Christ is the truth. The Spirit is the helper.
    Yes, Jesus is waiting to return and He is not done with Israel and Jerusalem. “From now on you will never see me again, I tell you, until you say, “God bless him who comes in the name of the Lord.”” Matt 23:39. Read Zachariah, Ezechial, and any of the other prophets. The Bible proves itself. God deals with the Jews on His own time line.

  • Herm

    Ed, good news, Jesus has been lifted up!!!

    Jesus said, “This voice was for your benefit, not mine. Now is the time for judgment on this world; now the prince of this world will be driven out. And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.” He said this to show the kind of death he was going to die.

    John 12:30-33 (NIV2011)

    If you truly are drawn to Him, beyond the scroll you hide in for your own authority, to His omnipotent authority, then go directly to Him. The spirit of the prince of this world Jesus spoke about was exemplified by the authority on the Moses Seat that crucified the Son of God in the name of God, by their own authority as the reigning expert scholars of scripture. They were blinded to the Spirit of God in their midst by their studies that had been led by the prince of this world.

    Disciple means pupil. You can be a student of whomever you choose but you cannot serve to learn under two opposing teachers, picking and choosing according to your will. The remnant of the deposed prince of this world remains in the spirit of intimidation, manipulation, confusion, subjugation, self- indulgence, and the worst of all is the little ignorant children of Man, who live no longer than 120 years, choosing to be self-sufficient without any teacher or family nurture.

    Just how much do you know regarding the dimensions of spirit that is infinite and eternal? I ask because you insist that God is physical when God is spirit. As a physical being Jesus still required to be filled with and in the Holy Spirit before our heavenly Father recognized Him before all the world as His Son.

    As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting on him. And a voice from heaven said, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.”

    Matthew 3:16-17 (NIV2011)

    At that time Jesus came from Nazareth in Galilee and was baptized by John in the Jordan. Just as Jesus was coming up out of the water, he saw heaven being torn open and the Spirit descending on him like a dove. And a voice came from heaven: “You are my Son, whom I love; with you I am well pleased.” At once the Spirit sent him out into the wilderness, and he was in the wilderness forty days, being tempted by Satan. He was with the wild animals, and angels attended him.

    Mark 1:9-13 (NIV2011)

    When all the people were being baptized, Jesus was baptized too. And as he was praying, heaven was opened and the Holy Spirit descended on him in bodily form like a dove. And a voice came from heaven: “You are my Son, whom I love; with you I am well pleased.”

    Luke 3:21-22 (NIV2011)

    Then John gave this testimony: “I saw the Spirit come down from heaven as a dove and remain on him. And I myself did not know him, but the one who sent me to baptize with water told me, ‘The man on whom you see the Spirit come down and remain is the one who will baptize with the Holy Spirit.’ I have seen and I testify that this is God’s Chosen One.”

    John 1:32-34 (NIV2011)

    Go to Jesus and ask to be baptized (immersed/filled) with the Holy Spirit. Then you, too, will be a pupil of the Teacher with no need ever again for any publication of Man testifying to their relationship with God. You will have your own eternal relationship as a child of God, sibling of Jesus the Christ also known as the Messiah (“the Anointed King” today with all power in heaven and on earth).

    After they prayed, the place where they were meeting was shaken. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and spoke the word of God boldly

    .Acts 4:31 (NIV2011)

    That was testified to as happening after Jesus ascended into heaven (which is spirit and not physical). All of those filled by the Holy Spirit were recognized by our Father as His children and they knew then to speak the word of God boldly. They knew in them the protection, love, nurture and teaching of God as family in God.

    You do the same as they did and you too will know to speak the word of God boldly, with no fear of the prince of darkness.

    I testify to you today, with far more substantial credibility than all you can find in your 1,692 year old Bible, that actually being filled with the Holy Spirit without pause for the rest of eternity is true as promised by Jesus. The Spirit of truth is our only salvation from the self-indulgent lies of Man. I can because I am in the relationship with God today that you still faithfully seek at some unknown time in the future. You can pull your remnant Pharisaical authority routine all you wish but you cannot dissuade children who know they’re in God, who know their Father and their Brother Jesus, to lay down their cross to pick up your sword.

    You can trust God to protect you from evil only when you are recognized as Their ward, in Their name. I fear no evil but I do empathetically feel the pain of those who do fear because I too was once where they are. I know that you are blind because so was I. Now I see, to knock, to ask for truth guaranteed that what I am taught in return is the truth according to our creator God with no beginning and no end. I’m a slow learner so I will need all the rest of eternity to get my lessons all right.

  • Ed Senter

    Some are so spiritually minded that they are no earthly good.
    Why do you rely on some of the Bible but ignore the other?

  • Herm

    Ed, I don’t rely on the Bible at all, that is the point of this discussion. I rely wholly on the Spirit of truth who was testified to by the Bible as real and available. Where do you believe every story teller in the Bible got their material? Did that material simply stop after the last writing of the Bible? Be the realist that you say you are.

    If there is even one shred of truth found in the testimony of the Christian Bible, that you are so taken with, then God is real and mankind has been gifted the image of God. The whole of mankind as one body, not just certain individuals, is the only species of animal or plant life on earth to have been given that responsibility. God is spirit according to your Bible, not physical. The image of God is the spirit heart/soul/strength/mind that we each are recognized by God as, not our physical being.

    Are you accusing me as no earthly good in the utilization of my physical body because I am too spiritually minded? Was Jesus too spiritually minded, as the God of Him was only spirit, to have been any earthly good?

    Do not get the physical brains of mankind confused with the minds of God. Don’t get the physical circulating pumps of mankind confused with the hearts of God.

    I was trained in seminary through the entire Christian Bible before, 26 years before, I came to recognize and acknowledge the Holy Spirit as my one divinely sufficient Teacher, who tells me only what my one eternally sufficient Instructor and my one eternally sufficient Father tells Him to say today. The Bible quotes directed at you are because there is where you believe you will find God when in reality God is actually alive, in spirit, right in your midst, right this moment.

    You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me, yet you refuse to come to me to have life.

    John 5:39-40 (NIV2011)

    Go to Him!

  • raven nevermore

    Ok, I’ll bite. What do you mean by “Salvation games”?

  • raven nevermore

    I never said that we ought not to care.

  • raven nevermore

    Do you think before you type? I’m smiling.

  • raven nevermore

    I’m far from a Calvinist, my friend, far from it.

  • Yes getting the British and Americans to do their dirty work.

    9/11 Missing links
    The Yinon Plan

  • So says every other jew yet their talmud is full of comments about Christ.

    Nice try.

  • Not really bafoonkit

  • oh vey

  • Bones

    Are Palestinians living in the West Bank refugees?

  • Bones

    Of course you would. Then you could have heaps of liebensraum for your settler mates.

  • Bones

    In retaliation for the expulsion of Palestinians….

    No concidence when these expulsions started….

  • Bones

    Lol….you obviously don’t know what a calvinist is.

  • Bones

    Do other Arab countries invade and force the occupants out of their homes…..

    Maybe ISIS……

  • Bones

    That’s because you’re mentally disabled.

  • Bones

    Just off the top of my head:

    The autobahn, volkswagens, jerrycans, V-2 rockets would be the prototype for the Saturn V rockets, infrared scopes, guided missiles, everything we know about altitude pressurisation and hypothermia

  • Bones

    Lol…..sure.

  • Bones

    I wasn’t aware Hebron was in the desert…..

  • Bones

    Visiting your settler mates no doubt.

  • Bones

    Which one is which?

    I’m not the one on here advocating that people should have land because they were on it 2000 years ago…..

  • Bones

    Yeah that’s plain dumb.

  • Bones

    Actually early Christians saw Islam as a form of Christianity.
    I don’t think there’s any doubt that it was influenced by unOrthodox Christian beliefs.

  • Bones

    You are aware you are promoting lies….

  • Bones

    Lol…..says the oppressor…

    They love us, they really do….

  • Bones

    Dude, that’s tin foil hat stuff.

    The Jews didn’t fly planes into buildings ffs.

  • Bones

    Yeah plenty of it, especially about eating meat sacrificed to idols.

    A big no-no in Judaism and Revelation ….not so bad according to Paul.

  • Bones

    Your first mistake is being a moron.

  • Bones

    No, you are a Christian Zionist.

    God doesn’t give a rats about nations….especially ones that practice oppression on their neighbours.

    You’d hate the prophets as well for criticising your pet.

  • Bones

    That didn’t even make sense.

  • Bones

    No doubt you’d love it if Arabs kicked your arse out and created an Arab only community in your neighbourhood, patrolled by Arab soldiers.

  • Bones

    That’s just stupid.

    Honestly antisemites and Zionists just go together. Both should wear a shirt saying “I’m with Stupid”.

  • Bones

    Go crawl back to whatever antisemitic hole you live in.

  • Bones

    No….

    The amount of melanin a person has in their skin is irrelevant to anything.

  • Mike

    I guess then that I can claim to be a jew and go steal some Palestinian land then.

  • Herm
  • The Happy Atheist

    That’s actually a very reasonable assessment. I think I misjudged you!

    I agree that Palestinians would gain much more ground in the policy debate by distancing themselves from the more ideological groups like Hamas and by condemning violence. Israel, on the other hand, should pull back from the West Bank and Gaza, and get the IDF under control.

  • The Happy Atheist

    I’m not sure you do understand the history. What part of the narrative has convinced you that Israel is in the right?

  • Ed Senter

    I study the scriptures in order to practice faith. “Faith comes by hearing. Hearing by the word of God.” The scriptures do not provide life. Life only comes through Jesus Christ. And Jesus was the physical manifestation of God. “You’ve seen me, you have seen the Father.” “No one has seen God, yet Christ has declared Him.”

    If you discard the scriptures, you might be susceptible to deceiving spirits. How would you know Jesus came to die and fulfill the law if it weren’t for the scriptures? Jesus Himself refered back to the scriptures. The spirit filled apostles refered to scriptures. It was Paul who revealed the gospel of Christ- which was a mystery- after being personally tutored by the risen Christ Himself. How would you know if you did not read Paul’s letters? And the scriptures say God is not done with His oracle people Israel.

  • Ed Senter

    I couldn’t find anything about eating meat offered to idols in Revelation. And Paul did not condone it. He just said let your conscience be your guide. Preach Christ- live your convictions.

  • Herm

    You asked, “How would you know Jesus came to die and fulfill the law if it weren’t for the scriptures?

    On their release, Peter and John went back to their own people and reported all that the chief priests and the elders had said to them.

    When they heard this, they raised their voices together in prayer to God. “Sovereign Lord,” they said, “you made the heavens and the earth and the sea, and everything in them. You spoke by the Holy Spirit through the mouth of your servant, our father David: “ ‘Why do the nations rage and the peoples plot in vain? The kings of the earth rise up and the rulers band together against the Lord and against his anointed one.’ Indeed Herod and Pontius Pilate met together with the Gentiles and the people of Israel in this city to conspire against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed. They did what your power and will had decided beforehand should happen. Now, Lord, consider their threats and enable your servants to speak your word with great boldness. Stretch out your hand to heal and perform signs and wonders through the name of your holy servant Jesus.”

    After they prayed, the place where they were meeting was shaken. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and spoke the word of God boldly.

    Acts 4:23-31 (NIV2011)

    How did they know “Jesus came to die and fulfill the law” without scriptures, for they had none? From where and whom did the Holy Spirit come to fill them? Did the Holy Spirit suddenly cease to exist for nearly 2,000 years now after then?

    Take your time and read this following passage over and over again until you hear what Jesus is saying right now, to you, please:

    “If you love me, keep my commands. And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you. I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you. Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them.”

    John 14:15-21 (NIV2011)

    Christ spoke those words to His disciples, those who were born of God as Jesus’ siblings. The words you took from the Bible were spoken before then to the “grumbling” “Jews” who clearly were not in the spirit of Jesus nor the spirit of Jesus in them. These were His words with a bit more context:

    It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me. No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father. Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life.

    John 6:45-47 (NIV2011)

    Jesus did not say He was “the one who is from God.

    Why was Jesus the “man on whom you see the Spirit come down” “from heaven” if without the Holy Spirit He was in the Father and the Father was in Him?

    Then John gave this testimony: “I saw the Spirit come down from heaven as a dove and remain on him. And I myself did not know him, but the one who sent me to baptize with water told me, ‘The man on whom you see the Spirit come down and remain is the one who will baptize with the Holy Spirit.’

    John 1:32-33 (NIV2011)

    It is only when baptized (immersed/filled) with the Holy Spirit that you will see Jesus, the Father, and all of God. All those of this physical world without being in the Holy Spirit are blind to God because all of God is spirit and not physical. You practice a blind faith founded on the physical testimony you read in the physical Bible without the spirit relationship in God promised by Jesus to all His disciples. Can’t you see that difference or do you still look to going back to the good old days when everything was physically perfect in the Garden of Eden, with one addition, this time with Jesus coming back to sit on His physical throne wielding the sword from His mouth to keep us all in line?

    Look into yourself to recognize the only part of you that can possibly live eternally; the you that is a unique body of heart/soul/strength/mind that is not physical but is a likeness of God who is only spirit. That is the you that allows you to be in God and God to be in you, occupying all physical space and no physical space in the same moment at once. There is no other life form on this planet that has that opportunity.

    The Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let the one who hears say, “Come!” Let the one who is thirsty come; and let the one who wishes take the free gift of the water of life.

    Revelation 22:17 (NIV2011)

    Ed, come! I can with authority say because I am wed to the Lamb.

  • Herm

    Nevertheless, I have this against you: You tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophet. By her teaching she misleads my servants into sexual immorality and the eating of food sacrificed to idols.

    Revelation 2:20 (NIV2011)

  • slripk

    I just discovered your blog and I find this piece is particularly helpful. I have a wacko right-wing sister-in-law who is pro-Israel to the point of ridiculousness–she’s scary. It’s nice to know there are more reasonable Christians in the U.S. who actually read the Bible. I am a former Christian, now a very happy atheist.

  • Has nothing to do with “Palestinians” the Arabs had been cooking up Jew hatred long before 1948.

  • a friend was killed by Terrorists in Jerusalem

  • The problem is how the Palestinians treat each other and use Jews as a scapegoat

  • Yes they do and did, 900,000 Jews were forced out of Arab countries

  • Hitler invented nothing, Hitler was a failed painter and rabble rouser

  • None of that was invented by Hitler, and much of it wasn’t invented by Germans

  • The Germans had no guided missiles, None of them could be aimed very well.

    Altitude , Hypothermia and it’s problems were well documented by the allies flying over Germany

    The liquid fueled rocket was invented in the USA by Goddard.

    In 1929, Hungarian physicist Kálmán Tihanyi invented the infrared-sensitive (night vision) electronic television camera for anti-aircraft defense in Britain.

  • Hebron was founded by Jews back to Abraham’s time

  • Israel hasn’t done atrocities, Syria/ Russia/ ISIS have done atrocities

  • You forget before 1948 there were Jews in Hebron, and the Gush Etzion , Tell me what makes Jews so toxic that Arabs can’t live with them?

    of course it’s OK for Arabs to live with Jews in Israel ,

    And it was OK for Jordan and Egypt to Occupy “Palestine” for 19 years.

  • Syria gained independence from France in April 1946. In 1947 the Syrian government commenced persecuting the Jewish minority, and that all Jewish clerks working for the French bureaucracy were fired and the government tried to stifle Jewish businesses. At the time of the United Nations vote on November 29, 1947, the Jewish community in Aleppo numbered around 10,000 and went back around two thousand years

  • Before the United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine vote, Iraq’s prime minister Nuri al-Said told British diplomats that if the United Nations solution was not “satisfactory”, “severe measures should [would?] be taken against all Jews in Arab countries

  • In 1948, Iraqi Kingdom was placed under martial law, and the penalties for Zionism were increased. Courts martial were used to intimidate wealthy Jews, Jews were again dismissed from civil service, quotas were placed on university positions, Jewish businesses were boycotted (E. Black, p. 347) and Shafiq Ades (one of the most important anti-Zionist Jewish businessmen in the country) was arrested and publicly hanged

  • Bones

    Obviously never heard of the Stern Gang.

    Heck Jewish terrorists were even killing Jews.

  • Bones

    Gee, I dunno.

    A little something that happened in 1948……

    Are Arabs kicking your arse out of your houses and giving it to settlers?

  • Bones

    Yes, the sectarian violence started long before then.

    King David Hotel anyone?

    What happened to those terrorists?

  • Bones

    That was a warning. And Arabs associated Jews with Zionists.

    Sort of like Muslims are associated as terrorists.

    Al-Said actually wanted a population exchange…and met with Palestinian leader Aref al-Aref in 1950 who protested the removal of Jews from Iraq.

    At the same time the Zionist underground was battling for a mass departure of Iraqi Jews.

  • Bones

    Yes Zionism is a political movement….

    The trial of Shafiq Ades was a travesty of justice and showed that Zionsim equated to treachery.

    Once again, the dates are important. Jews lived in Iraq peacefully until 1948.

    Who shot Rabin?

  • Bones

    That’s bs propaganda….

    I know people who live there.

  • Bones

    I hope your settler friends think his blood was worth it.

  • Bones

    Jews were forced out after the Palestinians were….

    They were no longer seen as Jews but Zionists.

    But at least you aren’t denying it.

  • Bones

    You mean like how Israel supported Hamas against Fatah…..

  • Bones

    The Germans most certainly did have guided missiles, the Hs-293 alone sunk over 20 Allied ships. The V2 rocket was designed by Wernher Von Braun who worked for NASA on the Saturn V rocket, night vision scopes were invented by Nazis and were the first military night vision scopes being utilised as early as 1939, as was the VW and the autobahn. There were gaps in studies of hypothermia and altitude pressurisation which the Nazis documented through unethical experiments.

  • Bones

    Yes it was…..

  • Bones

    Many of whom left ……which was not the fault of Palestinians.

  • Bones

    Ed obviously didn’t look that hard.

  • Bones

    Try Google…..

  • Bones

    No…..

  • Bones

    They were all Canaanites Adolf….and no they weren’t white.

  • Bones

    Lol……Adam never existed….

    Nice one Adolf in thinking that Adam was the progenator of the white man while other races were descended form ‘someone else’.

    Guess what? we all have the same genes….moron.

  • Bones

    That’s because Adam never existed……

    Neither did Cain…nor the tooth fairy.

  • Bones

    Yes, you are a racist white supremacist.

    Go back to whatever racist hole you live in Adolf.

  • Matthew

    Am I allowed to be a moderate Calvinist in this forum without receiving a “stupid” label? :-)

  • Matthew

    I have spent a lot of time over the last 10 years or so personally trying to come to grips with the anti-semitism that existed (and in some cases still exists) in the church. I cannot apologize for anyone other than myself. Please forgive me.

    That said, I no longer subscribe to Christian theology that sees no wrong in some of the activities the modern State of Israel engages in.

    Being critical is not the same as being anti-semitic.

  • Bones

    Is a moderate Calvinist sort of like moderate stupidity?

  • Matthew

    Ha ha … very funny :-) :-)

    I don´t subscribe to all five points. I´m more Lutheran in my understanding(s). Yes Bones … I know … Luther was not always such a nice person. No need to remind me :-)

    Aren`t you a teacher? What do you tell your students when they don´t get along in the classroom or on the playground? That they should call each other (or each other´s ideas) retarded or stupid when they disagree? Geesh … I hope not Bones!

  • Strongs119

    From Seattle times article entitled: “Sex with early mystery species of humans seen in DNA, UW researcher says.”

    “Geneticists like euphemisms, but we’re talking about sex,” said Joshua Akey of the University of Washington, whose lab identified the foreign DNA in three groups of modern Africans. “We’re calling this a Neanderthal sibling species in Africa,” Akey said. He added that the interbreeding likely occurred 20,000 to 50,000 years ago, long after some modern humans had walked out of Africa to colonize Asia and Europe, and about the same time Neanderthals were waning in Europe. Akey said that present-day Europeans show no evidence of the foreign DNA, meaning the mystery people were likely confined to Africa.

    http://www[DOT]seattletimes[DOT]com/nation-world/sex-with-early-mystery-species-of-humans-seen-in-dna-uw-researcher-says/

  • Strongs119

    Re-Examining the “Out of Africa” Theory and the Origin of Europeoids (Caucasoids) in Light of DNA Genealogy. http://www.scirp.org/journal/PaperInformation.aspx?paperID=19566

    The finding that the Europeoid haplogroups did not descend from “African” haplogroups A or B is supported by the fact that bearers of the Europeoid haplogroups, as well as all non-African haplogroups do not carry either SNPs M91, P97, M31, P82, M23, M114, P262, M32, M59, P289, P291, P102, M13, M171, M118 (haplogroup A and its subclades SNPs) or M60, M181, P90 (haplogroup B), as it was shown recently in “Walk through Y” FTDNA Project.
    http://www.scirp.org/journal/PaperDownload.aspx?paperID=19566

  • Strongs119

    Race deniers are the idiotic modern day equivalent of flat earth theorists.

    DNA destroys your delusional, and frankly infantile, “we are all one human species,” crackpot argument. The “Out of Africa” theory assumes that dark skinned Africans left Africa, travelled to Europe, interbred with neanderthals, and over time became White skinned Europeans. Quite an imagination you daft leftist clowns have got there! LOL!!!

    DNA research out of Cambridge University has shown that Neanderthal genes present in Europeans originated from a COMMON ANCESTOR not from interbreeding with Neanderthals. This lack of Neanderthal genes in Black Africans today, shows that Black Africans did not share this common ancestor with White Europeans, thereby proving that Europeans didn’t originate from Negroes. This puts the final nail into the discredited out of Africa theory. Europeans and Africans are different species altogether.

    http://www.cam.ac.uk/research/news/doubts-about-whether-modern-humans-and-neanderthals-interbred

  • Strongs119
  • Strongs119

    Your denial of the existence of Adam is a denial of Christianity itself, for Christianity is defined by the bible and the bible is the book of the “race of Adam,” as per Genesis 5:1, “This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;”

    ♦ Strong’s Exhaustive Bible Concordance: “ADAM”: To “show blood (in the face), i.e. Flush or turn rosy — be (dyed, made) red (ruddy).” http://www.kingjamesbibledictionary.com/StrongsNo/H119/dyed%20red

    Oxford dictionary definition of ruddy. Ruddy: adjective. (of a person’s face) having a healthy red colour: https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/ruddy

    Eve was created from Adam’s rib [Genesis 2:22] and shares Adam’s ruddy, rosy appearance, as do Adam and Eve’s descendants, this includes Noah, and his sons Shem, Ham, and Japheth, who repopulated the earth with the Adamic race.

  • Herm

    It’s what happens to us all when we’re a student of the Bible and not of the Teacher.

  • Jeff Preuss

    Those may be Biblical sources that suggest supporting Israel as a concept, but if Israel engages in violent slaughter of Palestinians in a landgrab, it is our responsibility as human beings and as Christians to stand against that action. Just as we should stand against the horrible violence Palestinians visit upon Israel.

    An assumed divine mandate to Jewish possession of a piece of land for holy significance does not excuse human rights violations.

    “We support Israel because all other nations were created by an act of men, but Israel was created by an act of God!” Except, the modern state of Israel was created very much by an act of men, an act of men that displaced many who already lived there.

    (This is completely beside the fact that Hagee has lost much of the credibility he might have had with the end-times blood moon prophecy nonsense. It causes me to seriously question his stance on things.)

  • S.Philips

    Jeff,it is not land grab! They are taking their rightful God given inheritance! Christians have no role to play…It is the HOLY ONE OF ISRAEL working behind the scenes!!

  • Ron McPherson

    Hey wait a minute. I resemble that remark

  • Jeff Preuss

    When folks lived there before Israel was founded…by MEN…and they have lost, and are losing their homes to those who declare they have a divine right to do so…it’s a land grab.

    I notice none of your response to me addresses the violence perpetrated by Israel in their “justified” possession of these lands. Do you likewise assume that to be mandated by God?

  • Jeff Preuss

    You should really Google manifest destiny, and see how that compares.

  • Jeff Preuss

    Read this, and tell me you still support the notion that the Lord supports all the things being done. https://mobile.nytimes.com/2012/05/24/opinion/not-all-israeli-citizens-are-equal.html

  • Herm

    Roy, you aren’t getting the truth beyond a brain game you enjoy playing with others.

    Genesis was never written to be taken literally. The books of Genesis and Revelation, as well as books in between, are metaphorical.

    Adam is representative of the male and Eve representative of the female of the species mankind on this planet. Please, notice the physical chemical makeup of our species comes from this planet’s earth. Please, understand God is not physical and the image of God is spirit. There is no other species of life on this planet that has that image than mankind. When that image was gifted to our species by God (a plurality as is Man) was when our species had developed to a point where the image of God could be expected to mature. Cain and Able came much later, at least 195,000 years later than a matured Adam and Eve, representing respectively farming and ranching enabling cities in the Fertile Crescent.

    If you cannot accept that as truth according today’s science in social, physical and spiritual pursuit then we really won’t be able to pursue your brain game.

    If you can, then we can come to a stronger and more mature understanding together how the plurality of God is one when each is filled by the Holy Spirit and Man continues to be fragmented by the spirit of tribal exceptionalism.

    All of your queries sent to me, at approximately the same time as this one, are fully answered by this response to you.

    Thank you for trusting to share your questioning mind with me. The facts I know as truth and do apply in my life today are clearly not in the same realm as the alternate facts you wish to sell me that you have yet to connect the dots, much less apply successfully. I wish you well!

  • Ron McPherson

    wonder how many would like it here if a Native American showed up on their doorstep and demanded back their land?

  • Jeff Preuss

    Well, I believe there is a wide crossover between those who still think white America was justified in actions of Manifest Destiny, and those who declare God mandates Palestinians relinquish land to Jewish people.

    I would not be surprised if S believes “we” deserved to take this land of America, and that God also decrees it somehow.

  • Ed Senter

    No, the words I took were from John 1:18 and John 14:9. Aw, you are quite clever, herm. I do not practice a “blind” faith. I faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    Yes, Peter and John were “uneducated” as the Jewish leaders said, and the Holy Spirit educated them so to speak, but what they spoke was scripture. Their scripture was the Old Testament prophets. And Jesus Christ also called Paul- one of the most educated Jews of the day. He was a “pharisee of the pharisees”. It was Paul who revealed the mystery of Christ.
    If what the Spirit reveals to you is not backed up by scripture, that “spirit” may be of the deceiving kind.

  • Ed Senter

    What? No substance?
    Thanks to herm, I found it. “It is not what goes into a man’s mouth that makes him unclean. It is what come out.” The point is, they believed the Jezebel spirit. Paul did not contradict that. If your faith is in the food offered to idols, you have a problem. If your faith is in anything other than Jesus Christ, it is sin. You can eat anything as long as your faith is in the right direction.

  • Herm

    Ed, Peter did speak the scripture to the Jews and was dead wrong regarding his concept of clean food, the covenant of circumcision under the authority of our Lord Jesus, and Paul’s legitimacy. He was corrected by the Spirit, harshly so.

    Paul was sharing his lineage as born and studied as a pharisee from a family of pharisees, not that he was one of the most educated Roman Jews of his day. Saul/Paul was a hatchet man and executioner for the Pharisees.

    The mystery of Christ was revealed by the Spirit of truth, period, who is the good news. The Holy Spirit was released to all who will receive Him then and now from the Holy of Holies when Jesus gave up His spirit.

    I can go on and on but you read little and conceive of less that I write because you do not seek to be filled by the Holy Spirit as thousands were long before the Christian Bible was conceived.

    To come to the point do you accept the following as true today?

    “If you love me, keep my commands. And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you. I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you. Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them.”

    John 14:15-21 (NIV2011)

    Can you honestly say, “the Advocate following Christ on earth, the Spirit of truth, lives with you and is in you this moment and forever on”?

    If you do why is He not enough as He was for Peter, John, Paul and thousands who died to this world without the scripture you study, according to the scripture you study?

    Please, answer me just that!

    God is my protection from evil, not the study of God found only in scripture that did not exist for hundreds of years after the ascension of Christ with all authority in heaven and on earth.

    You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me, yet you refuse to come to me to have life.

    John 5:39-40 (NIV2011)

    I cannot quote that enough to you who claims, “I study the scriptures in order to practice faith.

    If those scripture do not lead you to becoming forever filled by the Spirit of truth, the Advocate in Jesus’ place that keeps us children of God from being orphans on earth, today, this moment before you die, then your faith is for naught as you remain faithfully blind to what your scripture insists you must see, to come to, to live.

  • Herm

    Why your fixation with Strongs? I never called “Strongs one who ‘hates’“. Strongs is a resource that has no bearing in the discussion right now. It is you who spews hate by your attempt to divide mankind by skin rather than spirit. Now you’re attacking as though “chicks” have no courage.

    You are spiritually, physically, and socially ill according to the Spirit of truth who teaches us inclusive love regardless of skin, gender and carnal orientation of attraction between consenting adults.

  • Herm

    No, please, go ahead and explain why I am a hypocrite to you.

    If you see the Spirit of truth, the Holy Spirit, the Advocate, the Comforter, the Rock, to know Him to accept Him then you too have a special relationship in the Spirit and the Spirit in you forever equal to mine and all the 70 times 70 before and after me. This according to the Bible.

    “If you love me, keep my commands. And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you. I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you. Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them.”

    John 14:15-21 (NIV2011)

    If you are playing the brain game of what ifs from your scripture study without being filled by the Holy Spirit then you cannot live according to this from scripture:

    “I have testimony weightier than that of John. For the works that the Father has given me to finish—the very works that I am doing—testify that the Father has sent me. And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me. You have never heard his voice nor seen his form, nor does his word dwell in you, for you do not believe the one he sent. You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me, yet you refuse to come to me to have life.

    John 5:36-40 (NIV2011)

    But to ALL who do receive Him…

    Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.

    John 1:12-13 (NIV2011)

    …is the promise to inherit eternal life if they abide by what is written in Luke 10:27.

    To learn as a student of the Messiah today there is a prerequisite that I and many before me have accepted:

    “If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters—yes, even their own life—such a person cannot be my disciple. And whoever does not carry their cross and follow me cannot be my disciple.

    Luke 14:26-27 (NIV2011)

    This is all written not to be considered a brain game but to lead us to an immersion (baptism) of our spirits of heart, soul, strength, mind in the unity of God by the Holy Spirit bound in all love.

    So, please again, explain why you see me as a hypocrite. Am I not living according to what I say?

  • Ed Senter

    I suppose all of those spirit filled disciples were “corrected by the Spirit” since they all died cruel deaths save John, the apostle Jesus loved.
    Yes, herm, I am filled with the Spirit. He tells me to study the Bible and learn God’s ways.
    Now that I have answered your question, please answer mine. Why did Jesus die?

  • PedasiPaul

    More than 1,000 comments. Dr. Corey sure hit a sensitive issue.

  • S.Philips

    Jeff,William, New Testament regarding restoration of Israel given below.
    Acts 3:17-21

    17“Yet now, brethren, I know that you did it in ignorance, as did also your rulers. 18But those things which God foretold by the mouth of all His prophets, that the Christ would suffer, He has thus fulfilled. 19Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, 20and that He may send Jesus Christ, who was preached to you before, 21whom heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things, which God has spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began.

  • S.Philips

    Romans 11:28-29 “As regards the gospel they are enemies of God,
    for your sake; but as regards election they are beloved for the sake of
    their forefathers. For the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable.”

  • S.Philips

    Acts 1:11 “… and said, ‘Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking
    into heaven? This Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven,
    will come in the same way as you saw him go into heaven.’”

    Jesus will return to same Jerusalem….as King of Israel…..to rule the world, with Jerusalem as capital.

  • Jeff Preuss

    More Bible references as ‘proof’ that the land grab is justified. And, by extension, the ensuing violence perpetrated upon Palestinians, which you have still not addressed.

    For all your insistence that “Christians have no role to play,” you are stating that we as Christians must support Israel without question, for “God” decrees it.

    If you “stand with Israel,” without qualification, you are most certainly playing a role here, and are complicit in the violence they perpetrate, defending their actions by some version of God’s law that exempts them in your eyes.

    But it doesn’t exempt them, and most certainly not in His eyes.

    Why does your god get special consideration on the world stage? Should not the gods of the Palestinians allow their possession of the land to matter? (Including Palestinian Christians…)

    You aren’t going to answer questions — you’re just going to continue to toss out Scriptures as if they prove your point.

    They don’t.

  • Jeff Preuss

    Again, doesn’t say what you’re saying it does.

  • Jeff Preuss

    Nothing here about restoring Israel. Next?

  • Jeff Preuss

    Would that you would engage and converse, rather than just tossing out Bible verses. But, you got nothing, so you rely on copying and pasting words and thinking it an open-and-shut case.

    You’re just making noise. Blocked.

  • S.Philips

    Acts 1:6-8 “So when they had come together, they asked him, ‘Lord,
    will you at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?’…

    Did Jesus say Israel is no more relevant?

  • S.Philips

    Luke 21:24 “… they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led
    captive among the nations; and Jerusalem will be trodden down by
    the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.”

    So what will happen once the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled? Think about it…

  • S.Philips

    Lord punished israel whenever they committed sin…He will continue to do that….He is the judge…not we human beings.

  • Anti-jewish. Well at least I’m in good company.

    God hates Esau.

    You do understand the word Nazi come from Nazarene not Nationalist Socialist?

  • S.Philips

    Luke 21: 24 They will fall by the sword and will be taken as prisoners to all the nations. Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

    Now the times of gentiles are over….and Jerusalem is back in Jewish hands…It is not land grab…

    Regarding violence if Israel commits it unjustly, they will get appropriate punishment …..God will judge it justly..

  • S.Philips

    I am not american…no comments..

  • Bones

    Complete rubbish.

    You still believe in the god of empires.

  • Herm

    First of all, as to the disciples who “all died cruel deaths” this is the prerequisite for becoming a student of Christ then and now.

    “If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters—yes, even their own life—such a person cannot be my disciple. And whoever does not carry their cross and follow me cannot be my disciple.

    Luke 14:26-27 (NIV2011)

    As to the question why did Jesus die it would be just as well to ask why did Jesus disciples die then and do now?

    Jesus said He had to go away so that the Advocate could come to His disciples, His siblings in God on earth.

    “All this I have told you so that you will not fall away. They will put you out of the synagogue; in fact, the time is coming when anyone who kills you will think they are offering a service to God. They will do such things because they have not known the Father or me. I have told you this, so that when their time comes you will remember that I warned you about them. I did not tell you this from the beginning because I was with you, but now I am going to him who sent me. None of you asks me, ‘Where are you going?’ Rather, you are filled with grief because I have said these things. But very truly I tell you, it is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Advocate will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you. When he comes, he will prove the world to be in the wrong about sin and righteousness and judgment: about sin, because people do not believe in me; about righteousness, because I am going to the Father, where you can see me no longer; and about judgment, because the prince of this world now stands condemned. “I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. He will glorify me because it is from me that he will receive what he will make known to you. All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will receive from me what he will make known to you.”

    John 16:1-15 (NIV2011)

    Notice that Jesus knew He was leaving but, also, knew that He would be telling the Spirit of truth what to make known to His disciples after He was gone.

    Then there is the prerequisite for seeing the kingdom of God, namely, you must be born again immersed in the spirit very much like, or in the image of, all flesh is born first immersed in the water of their mother’s womb.

    Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.”

    “How can someone be born when they are old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!”

    Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”

    “How can this be?” Nicodemus asked.

    “You are Israel’s teacher,” said Jesus, “and do you not understand these things? Very truly I tell you, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony. I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things? No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man. Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.”

    For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed. But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God.

    John 3:3-21 (NIV2011)

    When Jesus gave up His spirit on the cross the curtain before the Most Holy in the tabernacle (temple), where the Holy Spirit resided, was torn top to bottom never to be mended. The ark of the covenant was meant to be behind that curtain with the Holy Spirit but had been stolen probably 600 years earlier and never returned. What is important to understand is that the covenant of Moses with the high priest counsel with the Holy Spirit behind the curtain was destroyed. Three days later the temple was restored with Jesus as its eternal High priest, not asking for counsel (as did the Levite high priests) from the Holy Spirit but telling the Holy Spirit what to say to His disciples that the Spirit filled.

    And when Jesus had cried out again in a loud voice, he gave up his spirit. At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth shook, the rocks split and the tombs broke open. The bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life. They came out of the tombs after Jesus’ resurrection and went into the holy city and appeared to many people.

    Matthew 27:50-53 (NIV2011)

    Therefore, brothers and sisters, since we have confidence to enter the Most Holy Place by the blood of Jesus, by a new and living way opened for us through the curtain, that is, his body, and since we have a great priest over the house of God, let us draw near to God with a sincere heart and with the full assurance that faith brings, having our hearts sprinkled to cleanse us from a guilty conscience and having our bodies washed with pure water. Let us hold unswervingly to the hope we profess, for he who promised is faithful. And let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds, not giving up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but encouraging one another—and all the more as you see the Day approaching.

    Hebrews 10:19-25 (NIV2011)

    Now the first covenant had regulations for worship and also an earthly sanctuary. A tabernacle was set up. In its first room were the lampstand and the table with its consecrated bread; this was called the Holy Place. Behind the second curtain was a room called the Most Holy Place, which had the golden altar of incense and the gold-covered ark of the covenant. This ark contained the gold jar of manna, Aaron’s staff that had budded, and the stone tablets of the covenant. Above the ark were the cherubim of the Glory, overshadowing the atonement cover. But we cannot discuss these things in detail now. When everything had been arranged like this, the priests entered regularly into the outer room to carry on their ministry. But only the high priest entered the inner room, and that only once a year, and never without blood, which he offered for himself and for the sins the people had committed in ignorance. The Holy Spirit was showing by this that the way into the Most Holy Place had not yet been disclosed as long as the first tabernacle was still functioning. This is an illustration for the present time, indicating that the gifts and sacrifices being offered were not able to clear the conscience of the worshiper.

    Hebrews 9:1-9 (NIV2011)

    Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days.”

    John 2:19 (NIV2011)

    Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”

    John 4:23-24 (NIV2011)

    For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. Nothing in all creation is hidden from God’s sight. Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account. Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has ascended into heaven, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold firmly to the faith we profess. For we do not have a high priest who is unable to empathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet he did not sin. Let us then approach God’s throne of grace with confidence, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need.

    Hebrews 4:12-16 (NIV2011)

    The word of God is not the Bible which came three hundred years plus after when Jesus had ascended into heaven.

    Jesus died so that we could be saved by being filled by the Holy Spirit to be born children of God, siblings of Jesus

    This bears repeating:

    When he [the Advocate] comes, he will prove the world to be in the wrong about sin and righteousness and judgment: about sin, because people do not believe in me; about righteousness, because I am going to the Father, where you can see me no longer; and about judgment, because the prince of this world now stands condemned.

    John 16:8-11 (NIV2011)

    The Advocate is our salvation from how wrong we are about sin if we do not believe Jesus.

    No, Ed, it is not the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of truth, that tells you “to study the Bible and learn God’s ways”. Some other teacher tells you that but not the Advocate. There is only one Teacher and he is not the Bible. When we become a child of God today, as is Jesus the Christ our Brother, we are in God’s ways and God’s ways are in us.

  • Bones

    Luke 21 is not a prophecy. Read it in its entire context, its describing the destruction of the Temple and the Fall of Jeruslaem in 70CE.

    Nothing at all to do with the modern secular state of Israel.

    Ffs people are still using scripture to justify ethnic cleansing.

    You’re another one who hates the prophets and Jesus.

  • Bones

    How about a Muslim kicks your arse out of your house and give it to other Muslims.

    You’d be whinging like a stuck pig then.

  • Bones

    Yeah, they were all Canaanites.

  • Bones

    Honestly if you don’t know what Revelation says about eating meat and can’t find it, you need to go back to Sunday School.

    Shows how much you know about it and how serious to take you.

    You have a problem because the author of Revelation clearly disagrees with Paul.

    Which would make sense if the author was an Ebionite.

  • Bones

    Well Ed doesn’t even know the Bible….he’s hardly even a student of it.

  • Bones

    No surprise that you’re posting complete and utter tripe, Adolf.

    Actually it is a denial of your complete and utter nonsense which doesn’t have a shred of evidence.

    No doubt you think women have labour because of what Eve did in the garden.

    I follow science and facts – not mythology, superstition and racist theories, Adolf.

    Btw – the Hebrew Adaam means Earth. You know – like what Adam was supposedly made from.

    Oh and the Aboriginal people of Australia were here 50000 years before Adam.

    It’s funny watching people use non-existent figures to try to prove their theories.

    Sorta like basing your ideology on King Neptune.

  • Bones

    What’s up Adolf, don’t like being called out on your Aryan nonsense.

  • Bones

    The Australian Aborigines predate your Adam by 50000 years Adolf.

    White people have the same genetics as black people, Adolf…….

    That’s because they all have the same ancestor, derp.

  • Bones

    Lol a racist quoting a racist….

    Anatole A. Klyosov is controversial:

    Klyosov has been prominent in the Russian mass media concerning his controversial theories of the origin of the Slavic peoples and the Arkaim historic site. Klyosov has offered a theory of haplogroup R1a as the Proto Indo-Europeans and the legendary Aryans.[4][5] He calculated the MRCA of Slavs, Serbs, Russian, Mongolians, Filipinos among other nations and tribes[6][7][8][9] [10][11][12] and the field of DNA genealogy and the study of history of species through DNA “Molecular History”. Klyosov have 32 research studies in Pub Med the medical research hub of NIH [1] and hundreds of research papers in Google Scholar and 79 research studies in the doi system [2]. He is Fellow, the World Academy of Art and Science [13] (since 1989), and Foreign Member, the National Academy of Sciences, Georgia [14] (since 2014).

    From 2008[17] Klyosov is also known as the author of what he calls “DNA genealogy” and “new science”, aimed to synthesize biology, anthropology, archaeology and linguistics and to implement methods of chemical kinetics in genetics.[18][19] Klyosov described his “DNA genealogy” as a “patriotic science” and between 2010 and 2016 published 10 books in this field.[20] In some of his writings Klyosov tried to refute the Out of Africa hypothesis and proposed his alternative Into Africa theory[21] with “outlandish claims” that the human species originated in Northern Russia.[18][20] According to scientists from various fields, “DNA genealogy” is pseudoscience,[22] and they have characterized it as “DNA demagoguery”.[18][23]

    Klyosov is the founder and president of the Academy of DNA Genealogy[18] and self-publishes its proceedings via Lulu.[6]

    Through Lulu.com he self-publishes the “The Proceedings of the Russian Academy of DNA Genealogy” [15][16] and the “Proceedings of the Academy of DNA Genealogy Boston-Moscow-Tsukuba”.[17] Lately, he has presented data against an African origin of modern non-Africans.[18][19]

    Taken from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anatole_Klyosov

    Btw your DNA is 1-2% Neanderthal.

    Why Am I Neanderthal?

    Everyone living outside of Africa today has a small amount of Neanderthal in them, carried as a living relic of these ancient encounters. A team of scientists comparing the full genomes of the two species concluded that most Europeans and Asians have between 1 to 2 percent Neanderthal DNA. Indigenous sub-Saharan Africans have none, or very little Neanderthal DNA because their ancestors did not migrate through Eurasia.

    https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/neanderthal/

    How Europeans evolved white skin

    By comparing key parts of the DNA across the genomes of 83 ancient individuals from archaeological sites throughout Europe, the international team of researchers reported earlier this year that Europeans today are a mix of the blending of at least three ancient populations of hunter-gatherers and farmers who moved into Europe in separate migrations over the past 8000 years. The study revealed that a massive migration of Yamnaya herders from the steppes north of the Black Sea may have brought Indo-European languages to Europe about 4500 years ago.

    Now, a new study from the same team drills down further into that remarkable data to search for genes that were under strong natural selection—including traits so favorable that they spread rapidly throughout Europe in the past 8000 years. By comparing the ancient European genomes with those of recent ones from the 1000 Genomes Project, population geneticist Iain Mathieson, a postdoc in the Harvard University lab of population geneticist David Reich, found five genes associated with changes in diet and skin pigmentation that underwent strong natural selection.

    First, the scientists confirmed an earlier report that the hunter-gatherers in Europe could not digest the sugars in milk 8000 years ago, according to a poster. They also noted an interesting twist: The first farmers also couldn’t digest milk. The farmers who came from the Near East about 7800 years ago and the Yamnaya pastoralists who came from the steppes 4800 years ago lacked the version of the LCT gene that allows adults to digest sugars in milk. It wasn’t until about 4300 years ago that lactose tolerance swept through Europe.

    When it comes to skin color, the team found a patchwork of evolution in different places, and three separate genes that produce light skin, telling a complex story for how European’s skin evolved to be much lighter during the past 8000 years. The modern humans who came out of Africa to originally settle Europe about 40,000 years are presumed to have had dark skin, which is advantageous in sunny latitudes. And the new data confirm that about 8500 years ago, early hunter-gatherers in Spain, Luxembourg, and Hungary also had darker skin: They lacked versions of two genes—SLC24A5 and SLC45A2—that lead to depigmentation and, therefore, pale skin in Europeans today.

    But in the far north—where low light levels would favor pale skin—the team found a different picture in hunter-gatherers: Seven people from the 7700-year-old Motala archaeological site in southern Sweden had both light skin gene variants, SLC24A5 and SLC45A2. They also had a third gene, HERC2/OCA2, which causes blue eyes and may also contribute to light skin and blond hair. Thus ancient hunter-gatherers of the far north were already pale and blue-eyed, but those of central and southern Europe had darker skin.

    Then, the first farmers from the Near East arrived in Europe; they carried both genes for light skin. As they interbred with the indigenous hunter-gatherers, one of their light-skin genes swept through Europe, so that central and southern Europeans also began to have lighter skin. The other gene variant, SLC45A2, was at low levels until about 5800 years ago when it swept up to high frequency.

    The team also tracked complex traits, such as height, which are the result of the interaction of many genes. They found that selection strongly favored several gene variants for tallness in northern and central Europeans, starting 8000 years ago, with a boost coming from the Yamnaya migration, starting 4800 years ago. The Yamnaya have the greatest genetic potential for being tall of any of the populations, which is consistent with measurements of their ancient skeletons. In contrast, selection favored shorter people in Italy and Spain starting 8000 years ago, according to the paper now posted on the bioRxiv preprint server. Spaniards, in particular, shrank in stature 6000 years ago, perhaps as a result of adapting to colder temperatures and a poor diet.

    Surprisingly, the team found no immune genes under intense selection, which is counter to hypotheses that diseases would have increased after the development of agriculture.

    The paper doesn’t specify why these genes might have been under such strong selection. But the likely explanation for the pigmentation genes is to maximize vitamin D synthesis, said paleoanthropologist Nina Jablonski of Pennsylvania State University (Penn State), University Park, as she looked at the poster’s results at the meeting. People living in northern latitudes often don’t get enough UV to synthesize vitamin D in their skin so natural selection has favored two genetic solutions to that problem—evolving pale skin that absorbs UV more efficiently or favoring lactose tolerance to be able to digest the sugars and vitamin D naturally found in milk. “What we thought was a fairly simple picture of the emergence of depigmented skin in Europe is an exciting patchwork of selection as populations disperse into northern latitudes,” Jablonski says. “This data is fun because it shows how much recent evolution has taken place.”

    Anthropological geneticist George Perry, also of Penn State, notes that the work reveals how an individual’s genetic potential is shaped by their diet and adaptation to their habitat. “We’re getting a much more detailed picture now of how selection works.”

    http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2015/04/how-europeans-evolved-white-skin

  • Bones

    They weren’t mystery humans…they were Neanderthals….

    Btw there’s more Neanderthal DNA in Europeans……..

  • S.Philips

    Jeff, you wrote
    “Why does your god get special consideration on the world stage? Should not the gods of the Palestinians allow their possession of the land to matter? (Including Palestinian Christians…)”

    Jehovah God..who alone is God Almighty. None else. I believe in Him and His Son, Jesus.

    True, Jehovah did give special privileges to Israel. But that included heavy responsibility also. Remember the extreme suffering and punishment Israel undergone for 1000s of years for their sins. And God freed all others people from that responsibility.

    As a christian I stand with Jehovah God ad His Son Jesus and people of God both Christians and Jews. It does not mean all crimes committed by Christians or Jews. I already wrote to you “Lord punished Israel whenever they committed sin…He will continue to do that….He is the judge…not we human beings.”

    Still you wrote I am agreeing to crimes committed by Israel. It is not so Jeff. But I do believe God is behind formation of modern day Israel. I do stand with God and His words.

  • S.Philips

    Israel will expand up to River Euphrates. That is the boundary fixed by Creator of Universe, for Israel!!

  • S.Philips

    God of Israel One True God! He alone is God!!

  • S.Philips

    Which prophets?
    All prophets of Jehovah God for told about restoration of Israel in end times, right from Moses onward.

  • S.Philips

    True, they always do that. Look at Mosul, Kashmir etc.

  • S.Philips

    For the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable.” It is God’s promise to israel that in end times He will restore them back in their land.(Deuteronomy 28 and 30)

  • Ron McPherson

    Do you live in the Middle East?

  • Ron McPherson

    Where in those verses is a geographical location referenced? I see nothing there about land.

  • Ron McPherson

    Suppose I’m of direct Jewish descent living in New York. Are you suggesting that I’m within my rights to show up unannounced on Israeli land on the doorstep of a Middle Eastern Palestinian family, with a copy of the Old Testament tucked under my arm, and demand that family abandon their home because it’s sitting on land granted to my forefathers 4000 years ago? And the family is expected to willingly exit because I have a book under my arm to “prove” it?

  • Ron McPherson

    When Jesus spoke of the kingdom of God, what do you believe he meant? A geographical piece of land.

    ““Woman,” Jesus replied, “believe me, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.””
    ‭‭John‬ ‭4:21-24‬ ‭NIV‬‬

  • Ron McPherson

    “Now the times of gentiles are over.”

    According to who?

  • Ron McPherson

    “Luke 21 is not a prophecy. Read it in its entire context, its describing the destruction of the Temple and the Fall of Jeruslaem in 70CE.”

    Agreed. When I started reading the gospels in this context it made more sense. Otherwise, we have to twist into exegetical contortions to explain how the events are still yet to come.

  • If you’re using Luke 21 as your scope, the “times of the Gentiles” have been “fulfilled” for a really, really long time. Nearly 2000 years.

  • S.Philips

    NO

  • S.Philips

    Not at all.Jews were scattered all over the world for 2000yrs. They could return and form a nation only in 1948. I believe Jehovah God work exactly as per His plan.

  • S.Philips

    New Testament is continuation of O.T.
    Even Jesus himself told. “For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished,” (NASB, Matt. 5:18).

    Jesus was obviously referring to O.T as .N.T was yet to be written. Jesus was confirming that all O.T prophecies including that about Israel returning from diaspora will be fully accomplished.(Refer Deuteronomy 28 and 30, Ezekiel 36 to 37)

  • Matthew

    I bet the dispensationalists will answer “yes” …

  • S.Philips

    Jerusalem is back in Jewish control…..hence I said it….of course not in full control as Temple Mount is still in gentile control..I believe even Temple Mount also will be back to jewish control eventually, as Messiah returns.

  • Herm

    Ed is in the minority of those who have read so little of their Bible with so little comprehension in that he vulnerably risks to challenge his ignorance as though he is the authority rather than the seeker. Most who defend the Bible as the anointed word of God know, in their heart, better than to challenge those who suggest that there just might be a whole lot more to an actual relationship with and in God than can be contained in their wholly sufficient good book.

    Ed seeks only to bring others to himself, where he is at, and does nothing to support others to find He who knows for the good of all who hear Him; without Ed’s childish mentoring. I respect Ed’s efforts to publicly challenge truth but not his spirit of arrogance that keeps him from seeing the reality of how minutely little we each can possibly know, with certainty, from only within our holy books of birth.

    I hurt for Ed because I see him stopping to dance all around the words written in the sand along his journey that say, “this way to life in God” trying so hard to define all the whole relationship will of an eternal and infinite God within just those ever aging and trampled words that can only serve to point toward the Way but could not be the Way.

    Thanks Bones!

  • S.Philips

    Jews were scattered second time around A.D 70 after destruction of 2nd Temple…and completed around A.D 135.Thereafter jews were on the run through out the world…Jerusalem,particularly Temple Mount was under gentile control since then…even though Jerusalem city is back to jews after 1967 war..I believe even Temple Mount also will be back to jewish control eventually, as Messiah returns.

  • apoxbeonyou

    “it will take you a lifetime to fully understand it”

    Because it’s mostly non-historical. Sorry man, I’m not going to let some ‘commentary’ try to trump the truths of science. Besides…who cares? What did Jesus say? I’m not ‘biblian’; I’m Christian.

    Also, for the record, listening to my pastor (and that other guy) who are just as well read as any commentary writer (IMO) is not a bad thing. It’s just not the people *YOU* listen to.

  • So, in your view, when Jesus says the “times of the Gentiles,” he means, “anytime the Temple Mount specifically is under the political control of a Gentile nation?”

  • S.Philips

    Kingdom of God in its fullness means Jesus ruling the whole world as per the will of his Father as foretold in
    Pslms 2. What you wrote( when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks.) will be fulfilled across the world at that point of time.

  • Ron McPherson

    And the verse just before the one you referenced states:
    ““Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.”
    ‭‭Matthew‬ ‭5:17‬ ‭NIV‬‬

    And
    “When he had received the drink, Jesus said, “It is finished.” With that, he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.”
    ‭‭John‬ ‭19:30‬ ‭NIV‬‬

    “And when Jesus had cried out again in a loud voice, he gave up his spirit. At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth shook, the rocks split”
    ‭‭Matthew‬ ‭27:50-51‬ ‭NIV‬‬

  • Ron McPherson

    HeeHee

  • Ron McPherson

    So by this it seems you are agreeing that Israel has no right to forcibly displace any Palestinians living on “Jewish” soil

  • Ron McPherson

    “Now after John had been taken into custody, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of God, and saying, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel.””
    ‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:14-15‬ ‭NASB

    “But when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law, so that He might redeem those who were under the Law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.”
    ‭‭Galatians‬ ‭4:4-5‬ ‭NASB‬‬

  • Ed Senter

    You see words but lack understanding. The Church at Thyatira is the apostate church. It represents the dark age period prior to the reformation.

  • Ed Senter

    Hello, herm, or should I say obi-wan kenobi (you sound just like him),
    Jesus died to serve the will of the Father. He died to fulfill the Law and bring salvation to all who faith. Although His death brought forth the Spirit, the Spirit is not the end all. “…for the Spirit is God’s mark of ownership on you, a guarantee that the Day will come when God will set you free.” Ephesians 4:30.
    I suppose you discard Paul like you discard the rest of the Bible? Yes, the Christian Bible was canonized in the 4th Century, but Scripture has been around for centuries. Christ Himself read from the Septuagint. I like to say that the Bible contains the Word of God. It is, however, not the Word. Jesus is the Word.
    And I am beginning to see the problem. You keep referencing ourselves as “siblings” or “brother” of Jesus Christ. The truth is Jesus Christ is LORD. The Holy Spirit is our HELPER (which is a better translation than “advocate”), and, as Paul said, the MARK OF OWNERSHIP of God. There is only ONE spirit and He will not lead us astray. I will continure to study the Bible while you follow whatever deceiving spirit you choose to follow.

  • Mikey

    This is historic! The internet changed someones opinion!!

  • Herm

    Ed, while you’re reading your Bible of choice please digest this:

    While Jesus was still talking to the crowd, his mother and brothers stood outside, wanting to speak to him. Someone told him, “Your mother and brothers are standing outside, wanting to speak to you.” He replied to him, “Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?” Pointing to his disciples, he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers. For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.”

    Matthew 12:46-50 (NIV2011)

    Then Jesus’ mother and brothers arrived. Standing outside, they sent someone in to call him. A crowd was sitting around him, and they told him, “Your mother and brothers are outside looking for you.” “Who are my mother and my brothers?” he asked. Then he looked at those seated in a circle around him and said, “Here are my mother and my brothers! Whoever does God’s will is my brother and sister and mother.”

    Mark 3:31-35 (NIV2011)

    “And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him. “This, then, is how you should pray: “ ‘Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name, your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven. Give us today our daily bread. And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one.’ For if you forgive other people when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.

    Matthew 6:5-15 (NIV2011)

    Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”

    John 4:23-24 (NIV2011)

    Ed, if and hopefully when you see HIS reality in your midst to accept our HELPER, our ADVOCATE, our SPIRIT OF TRUTH, our HOLY SPIRIT then you can worship our FATHER in heaven as a sibling sister or brother of Jesus our BROTHER, our LORD with all authority in heaven and on earth for the last 1,984 years, our MESSIAH, our INSTRUCTOR. Yes, I would say by experience becoming a child of God immersed in the same Spirit as is our Father and our LORD Jesus pretty well is the ultimate MARK OF OWNERSHIP for the rest of eternity from within the most divine familial God who gave mankind an image of spirit like in Them.

    I am as free in God today as was Jesus 1,981 years ago. It is you who claims to be trapped in the Bible Jesus did not endorse nor anoint as a handbook in place of the TEACHER.

    Why cannot you see, if you truly have studied the Bible, that all I say and more is verified within your Bible? Neither could the Pharisees and teachers of the law see that all Jesus said and more was verified in their supposedly well studied scripture.

    “They will put you out of the synagogue; in fact, the time is coming when anyone who kills you will think they are offering a service to God. They will do such things because they have not known the Father or me.”

    You are of the “they” who think that “they are offering a service to God” but are none a child of God filled with and in the Holy Spirit, yes, the HELPER forever (long past when all holy books of earth are forgotten).

    Why do you defend God, or your picture of God, with such fervency when God is infinitely more capable of defending Themselves without you? All I am telling you, from experience, is accept the protection that God is offering you today from all evil if only you trusted Them to do so.

    I am not telling you to follow me. I am not telling you that I am all right and you are all wrong. I am telling you that you by all means do not have to trust me or any writing of Man but that to live without end you must trust the God you seek as real and not conjecture spelled out in some book.

    I am telling that you can go to HIM!

  • Herm

    Ed, you are the classic example of the pot calling the kettle black. The church, raised in spirit only in three days, that Jesus is building as the only presiding high priest is an apostate church to any church administered by mankind on earth.

  • so you live in detroit?

  • Jeff Preuss . let me remind you that in 1948 5 Arab armies invaded “Palestine” with intent on wiping out the Jews. In the process they told Arabs living there to leave so they could have a clear field of fire with which to kill Jews. Are we to feel sorry for their sorry asses that they didn’t kill all the Jews?

    Not satisfied that they lost one war the surrounding Arab states decided in 1967 to eliminate the Zionist entity . This time they lost again, and the Jordanian Occupation of the west bank ended as well as the Egyptian occupation of Gaza.

    Israelis have not been “slaughtering Palestinians in a landgrab” , they’ve been defending themselves and winning as if that was a crime

  • and only 73 years ago Christians were pushing Jews into gas chambers

  • Jeff Preuss

    Perhaps you missed my post in which I also condemned the violence perpetrated by Palestinians. Or you’re just ignoring that point. But here, let me reiterate: I heartily condemn the violence on both sides of this conflict.

    Israel as a nation was created by men and placed where people were already living. Land. Grab. You may call it divinely inspired all you want, but call it what it IS.

    I feel sorry for ALL who lose their lives and safety in this conflict, but it does not negate the very real factual event that many Palestinians have had their land and homes taken FROM them.

    And there is NO excuse for it. And you know it.

    EDIT: left out a verb

  • Jeff Preuss

    Defending themselves? I should think the Palestinians view their actions as that very same thing – defending themselves.

  • Jeff Preuss

    Correct, they were, and that was also horrible. Does one genocide excuse another? I think not.

  • S.Philips

    William,
    Above verse is so clear.
    “the times of restoration of all things, which God has spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began”

    In O.T God spoke a lot thru His prophets, to Israel. . This N..T verse clearly says God will honor His Word. Those verses spoke about scattering of Jews thru out the world if they rebel against His Law.(Pl read Deuteronomy 28 fully.).

    Again in Deuteronomy 30, God promised them He will not forsake them for ever, but bring them back to Land of Israel from those terrible exile,

    Also please read Ezekiel 36 to 37.

  • S.Philips

    New Testament is continuation of O.T.
    Even Jesus himself told. “For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished,” (NASB, Matt. 5:18).

    Jesus was obviously referring to O.T as .N.T was yet to be written. Jesus was confirming that all O.T prophecies including that about Israel returning from diaspora will be fully accomplished.(Refer Deuteronomy 28 and 30, Ezekiel 36 to 37)

  • The Palestinians have not been subjected to a Genocide. the population has increased 4 times . To even mention genocide in relation to the Palestinians is a travesty

  • apparently the Arabs still claim Spain

  • Jesus is a hoax

  • Jesus never existed

  • for 19 years the Jordanians occupied the west bank and the Egyptians occupied Gaza. They could have set up a “Palestinian State” inside the green line and with the old city of Jerusalem at any time during that period.

    but what did they do during that time. The economies of the west bank and Gaza stagnated as they prepared for yet another war of elimination against Israel.

    Did the Palestinians ever complain about Occupation during those 19 years?

  • isn’t that Dog backwards?

  • Bones

    Nope.

  • Bones

    Which one?

  • Bones

    Did Jordan and Egypt steal Palestinian land?

    This is all a game of distractions.

    Quick , look over there. (while Israel steals Palestinian land)

  • Bones

    Apparently Palestinians can’t defend themselves……

  • Bones

    No they didn’t.

    The prophets severely criticised Israel for perpetuating injustice.

    You type would kill the prophets in your slavic devotion to Israel.

  • Bones

    That’s right.

    Didn’t like it did you?

  • Bones

    That’s obvious.

    Hey it’s not my land Israel is stealing.

  • Bones

    Actually we took our indigenous people’s land which they owned for 50 000 years. That’s 47 000 years longer than the Jews.

  • Bones

    Lol…Nope it wasn’t Thyatira…

    Here I’ll help you out….Rev 2:12-17

    To the author of Revelation, Paul and his type of Christianity were compromisers.

  • Bones

    No, God’s no longer interested in empire building.

  • Bones

    I’m teaching blogging etiquette at the moment…….

    Apparently these are the days when people like people who speak their mind….and don’t pussyfoot around.

    Sometimes hard truths need to be told.

    If someone posts Nazi propaganda lets just call it for what it is.

  • Matthew

    Agreed … but moderate Calvinism?

  • Jeff Preuss

    No. The travesty is you pretending that every violent act Israel has perpetrated upon Palestinians is justified.

  • Ron McPherson

    so are you just hoping that if you repeat that enough times over and over that you’ll start to believe it?

  • Ron McPherson

    Well to be fair to Bones though, he did say that we were just “moderately” stupid. I mean, it could’ve been worse right? Hey I’ll take what I can get ok heehee.

  • Herm

    I am wondering what is so wrong with simply adhering to principles of life as a Jesusist … I mean; one master, one teacher, one instructor, one father and all that. How many others do we associate our beliefs with, that are not directly Christ’s, our heavenly Father’s or the Spirit of truth’s, before the degree of separation is too far removed from God’s will to be God’s will? Can a moderate disciple of the Messiah have enough strength of conviction to pick up their own cross for others?

    I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other! So, because you are lukewarm—neither hot nor cold—I am about to spit you out of my mouth. You say, ‘I am rich; I have acquired wealth and do not need a thing.’ But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked.

    Revelation 3:15-17 (NIV2011)

  • Matthew

    You’re right Ron … from Bones it certainly could have been worse :-):-):-).

  • Ron McPherson

    Yeah, you ought to hear what my wife calls me. Compared to her, Bones is a teddy bear

  • Ed Senter

    To Paul, the Judaizers and ebionites were perverts. Still, it is pretty evident that you lack understanding.

  • Herm

    S., There is no covenant of God in effect with any physical nation body today. There are no physical children born of God. God is spirit, Jesus is spirit, we only worship God and our Father in Jesus’ church that was raised in three days, which is spirit. There is no one of mankind occupying the Moses Seat nor the Holy of Holies today; or for the last 1,984 years.

    What the Jewish people were chosen for was finished when Jesus gave up His spirit and the curtain was torn top to bottom. The ordered design of the temple/tabernacle had served its divine purpose.

    Be very careful, check it out yourself before you get a barrage of cut and pasted scripture that will support what I just shared as truth.

  • Ed Senter

    It is quite disturbing how you continue to refer to the Bible yet at the same time discard it. You sound more like a hindu swami than a student of Christ. Satan knew plenty of scripture but denied its meaning. I do not condemn you. Your own words condemn you.
    Yes, Jesus, as our kinsman redeemer, was one of us and could be a “brother”. But after the resurrection, He was our Lord. Jesus Christ was fully God and fully man. Some deny Christ’s divinity. Are you in that camp?
    Yes, the Holy Spirit resides in me because I faith. And He will continue to dwell in me as long as I faith. Jesus said, “when I return will I find faith in the land?” God does not need me, nor does he need you. But through Scripture and His oracle people, Israel, God has chosen to reveal Himself and His ways. God has not chosen to reveal Himself to that swami staring up at the sun in some transcendental trance hoping to connect to God.
    “May the Force be with you, Luke!” Ha!

  • Ed Senter

    We already know how you feel about Paul “the hatchet man of the Pharisees.”

  • Herm

    … and Ed, we know the Spirit of truth of whom you are blind to! You clearly do not know Who you do not know.

  • Herm

    Your god is dead as a figment of mankind’s evolving ever more fragmented theology that you bet on as sacred doctrine. The good news is God lives, really, though you cannot see Them past the pages of yellowing scroll to get to know Them. The good news is that the Holy Spirit has not resided in the Holy of Holies for 1,984 years even though you cannot see Him beyond the physical nature of mankind that you define everything living by, all beginning and ending with your god of scripture. How old is a god that can be contained within the covers of a physical book?

    You bet your life faithfully on words without life. Words that do tell of life possible today within which you would know to speak the living word of God boldly if you were only filled truly with the Spirit of truth. The Teacher who proclaims through many today and for the past 1,984 years the true glory of God as He is led by the Instructor. The Teacher who first led the Instructor into the wilderness as He was led to by our Father. The Father who recognizes each of His children today when the Spirit, appearing like a dove, baptizes us exactly so as was His only begotten Son of Man, Jesus, three years before Jesus was resurrected from the dead.

    You will have waited too long if you believe after your resurrection you will then become a child of God, a full fledged sibling of Jesus. Jesus is quoted in those pages you worship, that you falsely believe as the word of God, that whoever obeys His word will never see death. If you and/or I see death, then by His sword we will know nothing ever again. When our physical body ceases to contain our heart, soul, strength, mind there will not be three days for another physical representation on earth to reappear before our earth bound loved ones, as was Jesus’. All children of God will come from physical/spirit life on physical earth to life solely in spirit. Their spirit, once in the image of God but now, before leaving their physical body of earth, of and in God, never to die.

    I am not the Messiah but the Messiah is in me and I in Him today, this moment, without pause for eternity. I am not telling you to follow me; only to follow Him. He is not found on earth in any sacred physical book but in the holy hearts and minds He shares. The best news I can share with you today is that yours could be in Him and He in yours today equally so as is mine.

    The faith in our Father and Lord spoken of is not a faith that They must logically exist somewhere who you’ll find after death if you only do all the right things. The faith spoken of is more likened to the faith taken for granted that blessed children have, when otherwise totally helpless to their survival, in their mother and father to provide for them because they know in their growing heart and forming mind that they have been graced loved and are adored with great value even in with all their total inability to provide for themselves; much less for any others.

    If you do not personally know my heavenly Father, my Lord Brother, and my graced Helper as yours, also, working to provide for you every moment of every day you are not in the family of God to have the faith spoken of in God. If you do not see to accept the Holy Spirit before your physical shell ceases you will then know nothing. You can bet your life on it.

  • Ed Senter

    herm, it is not what you say that is so damning, but it is what you don’t say. You practice the sin of omission and perpetrate a bunch of half-truths. Therefore, my friend, you are a false teacher. Be careful.
    As a wise man once said, the remedy for false teaching is right teaching. You put a crooked stick next to a straight one and the difference is quite evident.

  • Cleaver response nipple neck.

  • Sorry mate. Edom is in modern jewry not Israel. That’s why Europe and America are suffering The camp of the saints right now. Because they fight for and worship Esau and not Jacob.

  • No word jew back in those days. Jews are Esau. Those who were among us but not of us.

  • So says the Edomite jews. Then why so much filth written about him in the talmud?

    Judaism = Talmud, Jews = Esau

  • Bones

    You being the crooked stick of course……

  • Bones

    If dying a cruel death means people have correct beliefs and are going to heaven then all gay people will be there.

  • Bones

    Nope….

    Does God punish you when you sin?

  • Bones

    How did you know I have three nipples?

  • Bones

    Still haven’t found it hey….

    Yeah the Judaizers and Ebionites didn’t like Paul either….

    Which was my point….

  • William, you have completely misunderstood my assumptions. I am not a Zionist. I am a promoter od peace and understanding yet exposing the falsehoods of Zionism.

  • Herm

    Therefore, my friend, you are a false teacher

    Ed, and by what standard of measures do you judge me by? From the enlightened perspective of many here you have no more evidence of my being a false teacher, which I have continually denied having the authority of the Teacher available to you, than did the Sanhedrin when they accused my Instructor of the same.

    They took Jesus to the high priest, and all the chief priests, the elders and the teachers of the law came together. Peter followed him at a distance, right into the courtyard of the high priest. There he sat with the guards and warmed himself at the fire. The chief priests and the whole Sanhedrin were looking for evidence against Jesus so that they could put him to death, but they did not find any. Many testified falsely against him, but their statements did not agree. Then some stood up and gave this false testimony against him: “We heard him say, ‘I will destroy this temple made with human hands and in three days will build another, not made with hands.’ ” Yet even then their testimony did not agree.

    Then the high priest stood up before them and asked Jesus, “Are you not going to answer? What is this testimony that these men are bringing against you?”

    But Jesus remained silent and gave no answer. Again the high priest asked him, “Are you the Messiah, the Son of the Blessed One?”

    “I am,” said Jesus. “And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.”

    The high priest tore his clothes. “Why do we need any more witnesses?” he asked. “You have heard the blasphemy. What do you think?”

    They all condemned him as worthy of death. Then some began to spit at him; they blindfolded him, struck him with their fists, and said, “Prophesy!” And the guards took him and beat him.

    Mark 14:53-65 (NIV2011)

    What have I omitted? What half truths have I perpetuated? Have I not shown a much greater appreciation for and comprehension of the scriptures than you? You resist to understand what I do share of a much greater and sure relationship with God than what the scriptures, that you have clearly not read with understanding, can possibly teach you without the mentoring of the Teacher. Tell me, please, what I have left out that you would understand.

    You repeat what you have learned in the churches of Man usurping the name and authority of the High Priest; what they have told you not what Jesus can tell you if you could hear. All of those churches claiming any authority to teach of God have much, much less authority from God than did the Sanhedrin.

    I repeat to you what the Teacher says to me that you could understand if you loved Jesus and my Father more than those impostor temples. The temple, the church of Christ Jesus, is purely of spirit, is eternal and is all inclusive of each of its parishioners as one because each is filled in unity with the Holy Spirit today. God is one as Father, Lord, mother and children immersed in the Spirit of truth.

    Ed, do you have any greater evidence to judge me of my claim to a graced heritage of spirit as a child born of God today, filled by the Holy Spirit uniting all of God as one, than did the Sanhedrin have to judge Jesus?

  • Ed Senter

    No, your point was that the writer of Revelation found Pauline Christianity disgusting. You are wrong and you are a pervert.

  • Ed Senter

    herm, I do not judge you. Your own words judge you. You continue to claim some super-spiritual greater understanding and relationship with God (how I don’t know) through the Spirit (whatever you believe that is) than otherwise studying scripture.
    Well, there is only one Spirit and God is no respecter of persons. The same Spirit brings life to some and death to others. Like a two-edge sword it cuts both ways. Everything Jesus said as reported by Matt, Mark, Luke and John can be backed up by Scripture. He came to fulfill the will of the Father. You don’t get more of God. He gets more of you.
    You have said in so many words that Adam and Eve and the garden are metaphors, Pauline christianity is to be discarded, there is no more prophesy to be fulfilled, Jesus is our brother, the Jewish presence in Jerusalem is not of God, etc.
    It is pretty clear that you pick and choose Scripture to suit yourself.

  • jews have a whole host of genetic disorders

  • Herm

    Ed, if you cannot accept that Adam and Eve are metaphors, that I never said Paul’s writings should be discarded (as no actual witness to God should be discarded), that prophesy could go on forever, Jesus is the Brother today of all His disciples on earth and in heaven, that there is no covenant of God with the Jewish people (and has not been for 1,984 years) you have not read to understand the Bible for yourself while inviting the HELPER to lead. I rest my case. You can provide no more evidence for your judgments than did the Sanhedrin. Good bye Ed, we tried.

  • A bad tree does not produce good fruit.

    Was Christ wrong?

  • Mr_MVK

    What a debate! 10 years ago the debate was if God exist between Christians and Non-Christians. Now, if God meant what he meant mainly among Christians, that’s how we all loose.

    Check it out:

    Behold, He who keeps Israel
    Will neither slumber nor sleep.

    Therefore do not be foolish, but understand what the Lord’s will is.

    Ps 121:4 and Eph 5:17

    And if you think His will is not for Israel, please re-read your Bible again.

    People you are not gods even if you think you can rule better :)

    You need to be for Israel, because how will you bless it, if you are against Israel. It is like the way the Bible tells you handling your parents, you don’t have to agree with them but you are required to honor them.

  • Bones

    I’m not Jewish but I have been snipped , Adolf.

  • Bones

    Lol….i’m a pervert for saying the writer of Revelation hated Pauling Christianity.

    Well he did.

    That makes him a pervert too.

    Christians have hated each other from the start.

  • So either Christ was a fool or someone else is lying.

    Let God be true and every man a liar.

  • Yeah right

    Those who were among us but not of us.

  • Bones

    Who is ‘us’?

    The kkk or SS?

  • S.Philips

    I have no devotion to Israel. I stand with my Creator, who call himself as God of Israel, and justly judge them for their sins as recorded thru out the history

  • My argument is that Christ, Emanuel, said that bad trees not produce good fruit.. He also said jews are of their father the devil. Then comes along some jew and says but Christ was a self hating jew who just formed his own break away sect and you are it total agreement. Go figure.

    Jews have admitted this over and over

    Edom is in ‘Modern Jewry’ Jewish Encyclopedia, 1925 edition, Vol. 5, p. 41

    “STRICTLY SPEAKING IT IS INCORRECT TO CALL AN ANCIENT ISRAELITE A ‘ JEW’ OR TO CALL A CONTEMPORARY JEW AN ISRAELITE OR A HEBREW.” (1980 Jewish Almanac, p. 3).

    It just if people want to accept the truth.

  • jews aren’t semites, roach

  • Bram Stoker wrote a book on vampires. Feed off the living and nothing reflects back at them.

    Remember Edom is in modern jewry not Israel.

  • Conflicting jewish accounts reinforced by a jewish media doesn’t make it fact.

  • No they didn’t. Research it.

  • Says the marano bafoontit.

  • Your making a deliberately manufactured error on associating jews with Hebrews. Your entire argument is based on assumptions that when investigated are flase.

    How could Christ have taught in jewish temples when the word jew only came into existence in the late 1700’s. Even Flavius Josephus wrote of the Edomite conversion to the religion of the Judaens.

    “Those among us but not of us”

    Christ observed Hanukkah????

    Hanukkah is the celebration of the Canaanite/Edomite admixture killing over 400 000 Greeks. And Greek culture is Hebrew culture.

    Why would Christ observe that and where is the evidence?
    The only jewish writings of Christ are in the talmud.

    You have your wires crossed.

    If jews are the people of scripture and are suppose to observe the laws of their God, then why are they the purveyors of everything ungodly in this world?

    The promise the Abraham was that his seed would become many nations. How many nations have the jews become?

    Why did the jews admit to Christ that they were never held in bondage when Israel were 3 times under the Egyptians, Assyrians and the Babylonians?

    The cultural celebrations of the tribes of Israel centered around an agrarian culture. Not politicians, bankers and lawyers.

  • Bones

    And Hitler wasn’t a Nazi……

    This racial thing you have going is so old.

  • Bones

    No, you stand against Jesus and the prophets in your slavic devotion to a Nationalist cause.

  • S.Philips

    If you don’t believe bible that is fine. Josephus, the Jewish historian wrote about him in his book.

    The Roman historian and senator Tacitus referred to Christ, his execution by Pontius Pilate, and the existence of early Christians in Rome in one page of his final work, Annals (written ca. AD 116), book 15, chapter 44 .

    Scholars generally consider Tacitus’ reference to the execution of Jesus by Pontius Pilate to be both authentic, and of historical value as an independent Roman source

    Another important source of evidence about Jesus and early Christianity can be found in the letters of Pliny the Younger to Emperor Trajan. Pliny was the Roman governor of Bithynia in Asia Minor. In one of his letters, dated around A.D. 112, he asks Trajan’s advice about the appropriate way to conduct legal proceedings against those accused of being Christians.[8] Pliny says that he needed to consult the emperor about this issue because a great multitude of every age, class, and sex stood accused of Christianity.

  • Too bad. It’s all about the generations of Adam.

    Suck it up.

  • the Naqba, disaster, when they were told who those Arab armies were going to kill all the Jews, and it didn’t happen.

    No going to feel sorry for their sorry asses

  • baloney

  • Did Jordan and Egypt steal Palestinian land?

    what Palestinian land? Before 1948 they were called Arabs, and the Jews had “Palestinian” on their passports

  • malarkey

  • Israel is not stealing land, it is the Land of Israel

    can’t steal your own land

  • Josephus, the Jewish historian did not speak about Jesus . Oragin in 220AD noted as such, the passage as invented around 330AD by the noted writer of lies, Eusibius

  • marano <–people who were forced to convert on pain of death or expulsion, sort of blaming the victims for their persecution

  • Jesus is a hoax, the Gospels tell you that

    1. Anybody claiming a virgin birth is a liar.

    2. Stars don’t hover

    3. Bethlehem was never called the City of David

    4. There is no mountain from where you can see all the kingdoms of the earth.

    5. There never was a tax that required people to travel to the birthplace of one particular ancestor from 1000 years previous.

    6. There never was a mass murder of children in Bethlehem committed by Herod.

    7. Nazareth wasn’t founded until 330AD

    8. The dead never came out of their graves

    9. People can’t fly

  • Acts is fiction , it has a flying Jesus and 3 different conversion stories for Paul, none of which he knew about.

  • since the world began as a molten mass of rock , 4.55 billion years ago, something neither the Bible or you know about

  • Jesus called out nobody, the Jews never noticed him, nor are the gospels histories, they are religious theater complete with greek choruses

  • baloney, the Jews wee called Yahudim, because the primary tribe of Yahuda were the Yahudim

  • nuts to you too

  • the New Testament is NOT a continuation of O.T. Is it a paganized salvation cult that is more greek and roman than jewish

  • There is no covenant of God because there is no God

  • Jesus never came, nobody noticed him and the gospels are not histories

  • Please tell me then why Matthew has Jesus parroting parts of the Talmud that were written centuries later

  • you never read the book

  • heaven and earth <–more flat earth drivel, Jesus is really dumb, or he is the creation of really dumb people

  • ensuing violence perpetrated upon Palestinians? Pardon me, but before 1967 the Jordanians used to have snipers posted on the Old city walls and used to take potshots and the Jews nearby, in the runup to the 1967 war, the Jordanians and Egyptians both agreed to attack Israel to “push them into the sea”.

  • Ron McPherson

    Why do you care? You don’t believe anything in the book anyway

  • Ron McPherson

    Uh, you’ve already told us umpteen times how you feel…over…and over…and over…and over…and over…well, that’s kinda the point. You just can’t help yourself can you ha

  • George Polley

    A very welcome article, Benjamin Corey, especially given Israel’s deplorable history. Ironic, isn’t it, that Israel’s Zionist leaders have created a nation that behaves like Hitler’s nazi Germany. By the way, I’ve read and enjoyed your book.

  • Jeff Preuss

    Your bloodthirsty lack of empathy for fellow human beings tells me there is no point in continuing in conversation with you. There is no defense for your position.

  • Your bloodthirsty lack of empathy for the Jews is apparent. It wasn’t enough that 1/2 of the Jews in the world were brutally murdered. Now you deny them a safe refuge over the pretext that their land belongs to some other immigrants, who make asinine claims that they are indigenous.

  • Moving 25 miles does not make you into a refugee for 4 generations. Meanwhile the Chechs kicked out 2 million Sudeten Germans and not a peep

  • The Holocaust is quite well documented

  • they stole it and made it part of Jordan and Egypt respectively.

  • still doesn’t make your sky daddy and his zombie son real

  • you are a liar and stupid to boot

  • I presented evidence, it is not feelings. The man was made up. Perhaps you need to get in touch with reality? did bad in science?

  • Yes what is very deplorable is how Israel has been set upon by its neighbors and has had to defend itself. Perhaps when i scratch you I get an antisemite?

  • George Polley, either you don’t know much about Israel or you don’t know much about Nazi Germany. a comparison is ludicrous. Israel is a democratic state that give all it’s citizens the right to vote etc. and none have been sent to concentration camps or to death camps like Nazi Germany did. And remember it wasn’t just Germany and Germans, it was all the other helpers on the occupied countries of Europe that aided and abetted the Holocaust. I don’tr forget about that either.

  • George Polley

    Ah, Bafoolkit, a typical hasbara reply if I’ve ever received one, citing the old saw “very deplorable how Israel has been set upon by its neighbors and has had to defend itself.” Not a syllable about how Israel has set upon the Palestinian people from the beginning until today. You guys make me laugh. Don’t you have anything better to do? :-)

  • George Polley

    You’re marvelous! You ought to read “The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine” by historian Ilan Pappe (you probably hate the guy). Israel, of course is “innocence personified”. I am laughing. This is my last communication with you B. Fool. I’ll delete all of your replies.

  • If there was ethninc cleansing how come there are so many Arabs in Israel, apparently your sources are bullshit

  • So you support ethnic cleansing of Jews from Israel

    makes perfect sense coming from an anti-semite

  • the term “national israel” is used by Christians to justifry their nearly 2000 years of triumphal prevention pf the Jews return to their land

  • George Polley

    Your source for this information is . . . ?

  • According to Israel’s Central Bureau of Statistics, Israel’s population at the end of 2012 stands at nearly 8 million, of whom 5.9 million are Jews and 1.4 million are Arabs.Jan 1, 2013

  • George Polley

    Thank you, I am aware of those figures. Are the Arabs (Palestinians) treated the same way the Jewish citizens are treated by the government? In all the reading I have done, including Pappe’s book, the answer is a very clear “No” (2 sources: a Palestinian friend who lives in Israel, and another who lives in the USA, pus a number of books and articles, including those published in “The Palestine Chronicle”. Discussion closed.

  • S.Philips

    “they fight for and worship Esau and not Jacob.” what you mean?

    One should worship Creator alone..

  • S.Philips

    “since the world began as a molten mass of rock , 4.55 billion years ago”

    Wonderful!! You are so sure, Bafoofkit ?

  • S.Philips

    Are you Jewish? The i can understand your thinking….If you have an open mind we can discuss it in detail

  • Bones

    There was no worldwide flood either nor promise of land to Israel……..

  • Bones

    Nor your claim to Palestine…..

  • Bones

    This should be fun,,,,,pass the popcorn…..

  • Bones

    Yeah the settlers in the West Bank are just tourists…..

    Nah….no wonder Israel doesn’t want a Palestinian state.

  • Bones

    Palestine was a class A mandate – the same as Iraq and Syria.

    Two of those three became nations.

  • Bones

    The generations of a fictional figure?

    How dumb are you?

    You need to suck it up.

  • S.Philips

    Part 1
    Does Israel’s role ended 2000 yrs ago when they rejected Jesus Christ? Listen what Jehovah God spoke thru prophet Jeremiah around BC 590. Also what Saint Paul wrote in Romans 9-11 chapters.
    Jeremiah31:31-38
    31“The days are coming,” declares the LORD,
    “when I will make a new covenant
    with the people of Israel
    and with the people of Judah.
    32 It will not be like the covenant
    I made with their ancestors
    when I took them by the hand
    to lead them out of Egypt,
    because they broke my covenant,
    though I was a husband to them,”
    declares the LORD.
    33 “This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel
    after that time,” declares the LORD.
    “I will put my law in their minds
    and write it on their hearts.
    I will be their God,
    and they will be my people.
    34 No longer will they teach their neighbor,
    or say to one another, ‘Know the LORD,’
    because they will all know me,
    from the least of them to the greatest,”
    declares the LORD.
    “For I will forgive their wickedness
    and will remember their sins no more.”
    35 This is what the LORD says,
    he who appoints the sun
    to shine by day,
    who decrees the moon and stars
    to shine by night,
    who stirs up the sea
    so that its waves roar—
    the LORD Almighty is his name:

    Cont in Part 2

  • S.Philips

    Part 2
    Jeremiah31
    36 “Only if these decrees vanish from my sight,”
    declares the LORD,
    “will Israel ever cease
    being a nation before me.”
    37 This is what the LORD says:
    “Only if the heavens above can be measured
    and the foundations of the earth below be searched out
    will I reject all the descendants of Israel
    because of all they have done,”
    declares the LORD.
    38 “The days are coming,” declares the LORD, “when this city will be rebuilt for me from the Tower of Hananel to the Corner Gate. 39 The measuring line will stretch from there straight to the hill of Gareb and then turn to Goah. 40 The whole valley where dead bodies and ashes are thrown, and all the terraces out to the Kidron Valley on the east as far as the corner of the Horse Gate, will be holy to the LORD. The city will never again be uprooted or demolished.”
    (God clearly says Jerusalem city will never again be uprooted or demolished)

    Again look at what Paul says:
    Roman 11:1-5
    I ask then: Did God reject his people? By no means! I am an Israelite myself, a descendant of Abraham, from the tribe of Benjamin.2 God did not reject his people, whom he foreknew. Don’t you know what Scripture says in the passage about Elijah—how he appealed to God against Israel: 3 “Lord, they have killed your prophets and torn down your altars; I am the only one left, and they are trying to kill me”[z]?4 And what was God’s answer to him? “I have reserved for myself seven thousand who have not bowed the knee to Baal.”[aa] 5 So too, at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace.
    Roman 11:11-15
    11 Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all!Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious. 12 But if their transgression means riches for the world, and their loss means riches for the Gentiles, how much greater riches will their full inclusion bring!
    13 I am talking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch as I am the apostle to the Gentiles, I take pride in my ministry 14 in the hope that I may somehow arouse my own people to envy and save some of them. 15 For if their rejection brought reconciliation to the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?

  • Ron McPherson

    and over…and over…and over…and over

  • Ron McPherson

    why do you care what I believe?…and over…and over…and over

  • Matthew

    There was a Texas Flood … Stevie Ray Vaughan :-)

  • Bones

    You’re obviously some sort of Jehovahs Witness or Dispensationalist.

    The simple fact is God isn’t interested in your nation building.

    In fact the ones who were in Jesus’s day were the Pharisees.

    He is interested in how you treat others.

    Funny how you join the Pharisees’ cause.

    But you’d kill Christ too if he was a Palestinian who got in the way of your apartheid nation building.

  • S.Philips
  • Herm

    I am anxiously waiting for “Part 2”.

  • they don’t conflict and you obviously are a screwball

  • Am I a refugee? I moved 3000 miles

  • and arabs drop barrel bombs on each other

  • showed that Zionsim equated to treachery? Shafiq Ades was a Jew not a Zionist

  • Bone you are a liar : Baghdad’s 1941 slaughter of the Jews

  • the Bible is the deed and so is the DNA

  • the Palestinians don’t want a Palestinian state , they’ve rejected all offers

  • as did Israel

  • because of zircons

  • Bones

    In 1941 Iraq was under the influence of the nazis

    Farhud memories: Baghdad’s 1941 slaughter of the Jews

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-13610702

  • Bones

    Lol…..an atheist using the Bible as a title deed.

  • Bones

    Israel was never a mandate…..

    “The United Nations Division for Palestinian Rights, in a 1990 document titled “The Origins and Evolution of the Palestine Problem: 1917-1988, Part I 1917-1947,” contained the following:
    “Article 22 of the [1919 League of Nations] Covenant established the Mandates System, founded on the concept of the development of such territories under the ‘tutelage … of advanced nations’ formed ‘a sacred trust of civilization’. The degree of tutelage was to depend on the extent of political maturity of the territory concerned. The most developed would be classified as ‘A’ Mandates, the less developed as ‘B’, and the least developed as ‘C’…
    All the mandates over Arab countries, including Palestine, were treated as class ‘A’ Mandates, applicable to territories whose independence had been provisionally recognized in the Covenant of the League of Nations. The various mandate instruments were drafted by the Mandatory Powers concerned [Britian & France] but subject to the approval of the League of Nations…
    Palestine and Transjordan (as it was then called) were included in the same Mandate but treated as distinct territories. Article 25 of the Palestine Mandate empowered Great Britain to withhold, with the League’s approval, the implementation of any provision of the Mandate in Transjordan. On the request of the British Government the Council of the League, on 16 September 1922, passed a resolution effectively approving a separate administration for Transjordan. This separate administration continued until the territory attained independence as the Kingdom of Jordan on 22 March 1946.
    Only in the case of Palestine did the Mandate, with its inherent contradictions, lead not to the independence provisionally recognized in the Covenant, but towards conflict that was to continue six decades later.””

  • Bones

    We’ve been over this

    The Palestinians have refused any state offer that:

    Divides them between West Bank and Gaza. Or whenever West Bank was included only without Gaza.
    Does not solve the refugee issue.
    Does not solve the Jerusalem issue.

    Maybe you could tell us what happened to Rabin?

  • Bones

    To Arab countries, the term Jew was equitable to Zionist after 1948. That was considered treachery….

  • Bones

    Do you understand what a refugee is?

    Palestinians living in the West Bank are not refugees.

  • Ah yes the jew cries out in pain as he strikes you.

    Then don’t be a parasitic guest in other nations promoting usury and every filth under the sun.

  • What’s that, jewish merchant mystery meat?

  • Irrespective. God hates Esau. Nothing we can do about it

    Israel, the real Israel, are the people that became the Christian nations of Europe.

    Stop worshiping the enemies of God

  • “parroting parts of the Talmud that were written centuries later”

    And you call me stupid.

    You are what you are and you being here makes it all to obvious.

  • Says the Edomite “Christian”.

  • S.Philips

    Chris,your arguments goes against Word of Living God.
    Nations of Europe as on today stand against God of Israel and His Son Jesus….Look at fate of europe unfolding right before our eyes….It is sad…
    but that happens to any Nation rejecting God of Israel, JEHOVAH, The One True God,Creature of universe and His Son Jesus.

  • Viliam Forró

    Those zionist immigrants came to steal the land, that´s why they had to “defend” themselves.

  • Viliam Forró

    Yes, there is over 270 news articles about the 6 million and holocaust since the World Zionist Congress in 1897 deicided the final solution of the jewish question is a land grab of Palestine. And these articles are dated BEFORE the Munich tribunal started. So the deceptive character of the jooish propaganda machinery is quite well documented too.

  • How is my argument against scripture?
    No different from the days of Noah. Who was perfect in his generations.

    Please pick up a concordance

    The Israelites of Europe who accepted the teaching of Christ(Matt 15 24 or even Amos 3:2) prospered for 2000 years until satan was released from the pit. The French revolution emancipated the jews.

    It happens to any Israelite Nation that rejects the laws of their God (Amos 3:2) and embraces the satanic jew

    Matthew 10:5-7

  • Norma Pressimone

    I think the following verse should question those who firmly support the zionist interpretation. You may find the following quite helpful. Please read the first book of Acts

    “So when they {Jesus’ Disciples} had come together, they asked him, ‘Lord, will you at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?’
    “It does NOT BELONG to YOU to get knowledge of the times [restoring Israel] which the Father has placed IN HIS OWN JURISDICTION.” …….Acts 1:6-7

  • S.Philips

    God do not hate jews or israel. He hate sin, and he punishes the sinner by just punishments. And that apply to both jew and gentile.

    However He has not rejected Israel permanently. Please read entire chapter Jeremiah 31 carefully.

  • They Purchased land, with money

  • Matthew was a work in progress for centuries

  • that’s Pastrami

  • Pardon me, Jews worked just like everybody else

  • more antisemitic garbage

  • no god wrote the bible , the jews wrote it

  • Never took out a loan< Car boat or house? < And talk about filth, it was the Christians that never washed , many of the Christian saints in particular were very pungent

  • Bones

    Ffs take your jew hate and piss off.

  • Jews killed Christ not Pontius Pilate hence washing hands of this issue or let his blood be upon us and or children.

    Josephus wasn’t a jew.

    http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0146%3Abook%3D13%3Awhiston+chapter%3D9%3Awhiston+section%3D1

  • If God hates Esau then it’s good enough for me.

    Why not try changing your ways?

  • Yes coin clipping, usury, slave traders etc.

    How noble Al Goldstein.

  • Not all jews share your opinion.

    The ones who wrote the talmud, with all the lovely things they had to say, must have believed he existed.

  • There’s a reason, an agenda behind it.

    Remember God hates Esau.
    https://christogenea.org/podcasts/dumbing-down-david-duke

  • Says the coin clipper.

  • Your wasting your time taking to the synagogue of satan.

    “There is no Jew or Gentile anymore.”
    That is just nonsense. Look into the missed translations and the etymology.

  • S.Philips

    Chris,
    I got personal copy of following book
    “Josephus, The Complete Works, William Whiston, A.M..” published by Thomas Nelson Publishers.

    That book start with a chapter “The Life of Flavius Josephus”.

    There Josephus explains his family history. He says he belong to prominent Israelite priest family, which he explains in detail including family tree.Also he claims, thru his mother’s side he is of royal blood.

    Regarding Jews killed Christ, it is well written in all four gospels. Jews did say “Crucify Him” . Also they said ” let his blood be upon us and our children”.

    Jews were definitely instrumental for crucifying Jesus. At the same time please remember Jesus died as a sacrificial lamb for sins of entire humanity, including Gentiles and Jews, as per will of His Father.

  • Bones

    Piss off.

    God doesn’t hate Esau……

    Another who uses mythology to justify his hate.

  • Yes the Bible and the Koran both say it is for the Children of Israel

  • You wear your antisemitism on your forehead

  • Bones

    Lol….that’s right.

    It’s national revisionism.

    We can claim the land because we said so…..

  • Bones

    This is the Bible and Koran you don’t believe in……

    Wow, good point.

  • Who said God has regected Israel? God has never rejected Israel. Christ came only for Israel.

    Problem is you thinking jews are Israel. The people that became the Christian Nations of Europe are the real Israel hence the camp of the saints scenario happening today with the Edomite jews behind it all.

    Care to explain those who are wicked from the womb?

    Amos 3:2

  • “A brief History of the Terms for Jew” in the 1980 Jewish Almanac is the following: “STRICTLY SPEAKING IT IS INCORRECT TO CALL AN ANCIENT ISRAELITE A ‘ JEW’ OR TO CALL A CONTEMPORARY JEW AN ISRAELITE OR A HEBREW.” (1980 Jewish Almanac, p. 3).

    https://www.biblebelievers.org.au/edomites.htm

    John 8:44

  • You should look into the etymology of the word world rather then flat out believing the coin clippers.

  • Jews are of Shem???

    Never trust coin clipper.

  • Bones

    So those that left Syria during the current civil war to go to Lebanon aren’t refugees?

    Or those Jews who travelled from Germany to France.

    Because it’s all about distance travelled.

    Nah. You lose again.

  • Tom Foolery

    The Jews are God’s chosen people and that is the land he gave them. It is a holy covenant. God doesn’t break covenants. The Arabs are on Jewish land. They even desecrated the site of the temple with a mosque. Arabs should be in fear of God’s wrath for what they have done.

  • Bones

    Complete and utter garbage.

    Why is your god a racist?

  • Tom Foolery

    I’m an atheist.

  • Bones

    Which makes your post even more nonsensical.

    So much for atheists being smart.

  • martin davies

    When is Israel engaging in a violent slaughter of Palestinians? you are either an anti semite or misinformed. Israel is daily attacked by missiles,without response. It is the only Country in the middle East where people of all religions can live peacefully together. How many Jews live in Gaza? 0 The IDF has people of all religions , including Arab muslims, Arab Terrorists are treated in the same Hospitals as Israeli soldiers, Israel abides by the Geneva Convention, Hamas names streets after murderers. Do you really believe that the hand of God was not involved in the modern State of Israel, that such a tiny State could have survived against such almighty odds?even the UN pulled out during the 6 Day war because Israel was supposedly finished. Instead of just repeating anti israel lies actually do a bit of research and you may learn something

  • martin davies

    Jews were also living there and always have been, it is also the historical homeland for the Diaspora. Most of the supposedly Palestinians were not even born there ,such as that famous ‘Palestinian’ Yasser Arafat who was born in cairo

  • martin davies

    Shame on you for claiming the Jews are committing Genocide

  • martin davies

    The Palestinians could not complain about occupation ,because there was no such people as Palestinians in those days

  • Jeff Preuss

    “you are either an anti semite or misinformed.”
    Even though, colloquially, ‘anti-semitic’ has come to be accepted as against Jewish people, the term ‘semitic’ actually applies to “peoples who speak the Semitic languages, especially Hebrew and Arabic,” so it would apply to both sides of this conflict. Also, even in the colloquial sense, nothing I said about disliking the violence perpetrated by Israel (and, as you should handily note if you read all my comments on this topic, also disliking the violence perpetrated against Israel) paints me as at all against the Jewish people.

    I condemn the violence on both sides of this conflict. Period. That you want to use that to paint me with an anti-semitic brush speaks to your biases and prejudices, not mine.

    I am also not misinformed. As I’ve already reminded you, I abhor the violence the Palestinians do as well. My main disagreement as far as Israel is concerned is that the state of Israel has a “right” to the land that was given to them, based on some interpretation of Scripture, and that they are therefore exempt from treating the peoples who already lived there (and their descendants) humanely.

    But, yeah, spin it how you want.

    “Do you really believe that the hand of God was not involved in the modern State of Israel, that such a tiny State could have survived against such almighty odds?”
    God is involved in all that occurs on this Earth, but the creation of the modern state of Israel was the handiwork of Man with his free will. You can make just as much of an argument that God is giving the Palestinians the power to fight back, since He loves us all.

    “actually do a bit of research and you may learn something”
    What an assumption you make that I’ve done no research. I know people in and from the region, both Arab and Jew. Even some Israelite Jews disagree with the state action.

    But that doesn’t fit your narrative, so you’ll discount it.

  • Jeff Preuss

    Shame on you for claiming I am an anti-semite, for questioning state-sanctioned violence.

  • martin davies

    There you go again, state sanctioned violence. you really do not have a clue. As I posted previously Israel treats Arab murderers in the same hospitals , the same doctors as the victims. Do a little research and gain some knowledge and maybe your prejudices will mellow

  • Jeff Preuss

    So, you’re a hostile commenter with a tendency for name calling and an obvious “divinely” inspire bloodlust. You cannot provide any worthwhile conversation on this topic. I pray you find peace and seek out non-violent ways of engaging your neighbor, even if they are Palestinian.

    Oh, poopsie, type away. You didn’t get the message – I’ve blocked you.

    [Further EDIT to say, I vastly prefer this comment from a Martin Davies, even if it’s not you: “it seems to me that one can easily be a critic of specific Israeli policies but still not be anti-Semitic.” Ta!]

  • martin davies

    I will let this Arab Muslim do my talking for me, as for ‘bloodlust’ I pray for peace every day with honesty unlike yourself
    https://www.facebook.com/RudyRochman.Page/videos/1283222585096027/?hc_ref=NEWSFEED

  • Jeff Preuss

    Another comment by that Martin Davies: ” Israel is not some delicate maiden that needs to be protected from all criticism lest she faint, she’s a tough girl who can look after herself. There are legitimate criticisms to be made, indeed many of them are made by Israeli Jews themselves, and I think Israel’s western cheerleaders are often too quick to jump in with an accusation of anti-semitism where there is none.”

    Applies here.

  • There are no “Palestinians”. Before 1948 the Jews in the holy land had “Palestinian” on their passport. The Arabs had “Arab” on theirs

  • antisemite applies only to Jew hatred

  • Bones
  • Bones

    What do you call hatred of Arabs and Palestinians?

  • Bones

    Even Trump has to tell Bibi to stop building settlements…..

    TRUMP WARNS ISRAEL: STOP ANNOUNCING NEW SETTLEMENTS

    http://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Politics-And-Diplomacy/Trump-warns-Israel-Stop-announcing-new-settlements-480446

  • Bones

    And another ‘Arab’ Palestinian passport.. Both stamped ‘Palestinian citizens’….

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/f83e8e582bcd44eea854f86cdeaefdf5fc0d6c2fb1d3bdc4374ef7a67f8bedee.jpg

  • Jeff Preuss

    Eh, I basically get the point about the term anti-semitic. It’s generally assumed to be anti-Jewish, even though a breakdown of the term’s constituent parts would seem to indicate it should apply to bigotry against all semitic peoples. Even though its construction should denote that, it’s not how the term is used.

    Of course, it doesn’t change the fact that questioning Israel does not make one anti-semitic, so that accusation is pure bunk.

  • Quilviov Super Genius ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

    “…Israel is an apartheid state…” Absolutely false! Why is it Arabas of all kinds can live peacefully in Israel but not one Jew can live so in Arab countries? Which is the apartheid state? I am furious that anti-Semitism is now the hallmark of the left, my left.

    “…a place where Christians have had to petition the government so that they can walk down the street without being spat upon…” More nonsense. I hjavbe many Christian friends who have visited Israel, none of them were spat on.

    You try to couch your Jew hatred as anti-Zinonism but no one is fooled except lke minded bigots. New flash: Jesus was Jewish as were all the disciciples, as were Joseph and Mary.

  • Bones

    Jesus wasn’t a Nationalist….that’s something the Right never gets.

    Btw maybe talk with Palestinian Christians instead of your right wing mates.

  • Matthew

    Haven´t you heard about the Messianic Jewish pastor who was taken from his house and thrown into a swimming pool at the hands of a group of (I think) religious Jews?

    That said, and I don´t know how many times I have to say it here, being critical of the modern State of Israel is NOT the same as being anti-semitic, or more specifically, anti-Jew.

  • Bones

    That wasnt the flag of Mandatory palestine. It was a zionist flag.

    “The use of Zionist or Hebrew flags was common in the Yishuv, as the body of Jewish residents in Palestine was known before the establishment of the State of Israel, and such flags were often flown by such Yishuv institutions as The Jewish Agency or the Histadrut. However, the Yishuv constituted only one of the country’s main ethnic communities – the other such community, the Palestinian Arabs, being opposed to the Zionist movement and to this movement’s flag(s). Thus, Hebrew flags were never recognized or given an official status by the British authorities, which throughout the vicittudes of their Palestine policy always asserted an impartiality as between Jews and Arabs – the only official Flag of Palestine being the Union Jack and its derivatives, as noted above.

    Still, the French dictionary Le Petit Larousse Illustré contained a world flag section which, from 1924 to 1939, showed the flag of Palestine as a yellow Star of David on a Blue and White background.[5] It is unknown on which basis Le Petit Larousse Illustré chose this flag as representing Palestine. While what would become after 1948 the Flag of Israel also includes the Star of David and a Blue and White background, these elements are arranged in a completely different way.”

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Mandatory_Palestine

  • Bones
  • Jeff Preuss

    We can say it till we’re blue in the face (and, by now, you and I look quite Smurfy indeed) but it seems there will never be a shortage of people who will equate criticism of Israel with “Jew hatred.”

    Never mind that nothing, NOTHING, in Ben’s post can be at all construed as hatred of Jewish people.

  • Jeff Preuss

    Eh, Quilviov refers to themself as left, it seems. “hallmark of the left, my left.” Their avatar is very anti-Trump, so possibly not too right-wing.

  • Bones

    Then they should stop listening to right wing nonsense. Because he’s just spouting right wing propaganda.

    There seems to be a lot of confusion over what is Leftism.

    Leftists do not support militarism, colonialism, social inequality and they advocate for social justice.

    If you support those, you aren’t a leftie.

    Maybe he should read some Chomsky or Cornel West to see if he is of the Left.

  • Bones

    I’ll let these Palestinian Christians do my talking for me.

    You can’t pray for peace and support oppression.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXdBer0v1JY

  • I Spit On Evangelical Men

    This Article was awesome up until it implied that abortion was wrong.
    Abortion is a human civil right. However besides that unfortunate blunder, the rest of the article was spot-on.

  • JoeB

    The allies were losing WWI and were ready to agree with Germany that the war should end and everyone could go back to how it was before. The Jews made a bargain with the UK that if they could get the US to enter WWI they could guarantee the allies side would win. In return the UK had to sign a document called the Balfour Declaration that would give Palestine to the Jews. Learn history.

  • JBourne

    Jeff, seems you are wasting your time with this idiot. “antisemite applies only to Jew hatred”, lol!

  • JBourne

    Did the Palestinians wipe out 1/2 of the Jews in the world? Does that justify humiliating, murdering and ethnically cleansing of true Palestinian Semites (Christian, Muslim and Mizrahim) of their land? Yes I said true Semites not the European askeNAZI invaders