If You Think Trump Was Picked By God, You Might Want to Read the Rest of That Bible Story

If You Think Trump Was Picked By God, You Might Want to Read the Rest of That Bible Story February 8, 2018

My Christian brothers and sisters on the Religious Right seem to be quite fond of claiming that God himself had a direct role in making Donald Trump president.

I recall Franklin Graham claimed that Trump’s rise to the American Throne was so bizarre that the only explanation could be that God himself was directly involved in making sure Trump became President of the United States:

“He did everything wrong, politically… he offended gays. He offended women. He offended the military. He offended black people. He offended the Hispanic people. He offended everybody! And he became president of the United States. Only God could do that.”

In the past year of Trump’s presidency, I’ve been amazed at the considerable number of figures and leaders on the Religious Right who have carried the torch of claiming that God himself placed Donald Trump in the White House.

As someone who knows my Bible *pretty* well, too, I’ll have to admit… the idea that Trump might be “God’s pick” certainly is a biblical concept– it’s one established in a very famous story where people begged God for a leader– and got one.

But here’s the funny thing my friends on the Religious Right seem to forget:

If we go back to the biblical story where this concept comes from, the idea that Trump is God’s pick is actually reeeeaaaaallly bad.

So, might Trump be God’s pick as they claim?

Well, as a preacher and teacher of the Bible, I say we open our Bibles and turn to that famous story of God picking a king. If after reading the Bible we find undeniable similarities to America and the rise of Trump, I’ll concede the point to my friends on the Religious Right and admit that it might be true.

Let’s look at that Bible story and what Scripture tells us:

The people of Israel claimed they wanted to drain the swamp of crooked leadership, and that having a strong national leader who wasn’t part of the current establishment, but who was similar to other world leaders they admired, was going to be the only way to do it (1 Samuel 8:5). They were also tired of losing and wanted someone to do something about those darn Philistines who seemed to keep winning. They lamented about how things were, and began to insist that the only solution was to have a strong king who’d make the nation do things God’s way and who would save them from their enemies.

Assuming that having a powerful king take authority in order to get the nation to do things “God’s way” and defeat their enemies was a horrible idea, the Bible tells us. God even instructed the prophets to warn everyone to reject the entire concept before it could backfire on everyone.

But the people didn’t listen.

They rejected all the warnings of God’s own prophet, and chose instead to place their hope and trust in a king who’d help them win again.

And you know what? God reluctantly stepped back and let them let them have the leader they wanted. They ended up choosing Saul– a man from a rich family who talked a big game about following God, who was anointed behind the scenes by the religious establishment before being put in front of the people for a vote; a leader who turned out to be greedy and seeking personal gain, someone who loved war and a big military; a man who consistently disregarded God once he was in power, who spent so much time and attention trying to attack his political rival that he neglected the needs of the country, and who eventually became mentally unstable with fits of madness where his closest attendants were always trying to figure out how to calm him down.

Sound familiar?

So while my friends on the Religious Right may be drawing a real concept from an actual biblical story, the idea that God would reluctantly anoint a particular president after growing tired of the religious elite ignoring the warnings of prophets, doesn’t mean that God is attempting to bless you.

Sometimes giving in to people who won’t listen to reason, and reluctantly letting them have what they want, is actually an attempt to discipline them.

So, could Trump really be “God’s pick”?

Well, I can’t lie… I do see a few similarities to that story in the Bible.

unafraid 300Dr. Benjamin L. Corey is a public theologian and cultural anthropologist who is a two-time graduate of Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary with graduate degrees in the fields of Theology and International Culture, and holds a doctorate in Intercultural Studies from Fuller Theological Seminary. He is also the author of the new book, Unafraid: Moving Beyond Fear-Based Faith, which is available wherever good books are sold. www.Unafraid-book.com. 

Be sure to check out his new blog, right here, and follow on Facebook:

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  • CroneEver

    Wonderful! Still amazed that the people who say that Trump is God’s anointed called Obama – with his impeccable family values – a tyrant, usurper, and a few other names that I don’t like to put in print. I can’t help but believe that it’s all about “at last he’s white!” v. “unforgiveable blackness.”

  • otrotierra

    Thank you Dr. Corey for bringing biblical literacy to Trump’s White Evangelical followers.

  • otrotierra

    Oh certainly. U.S. White Evangelicals have worked hard to cement themselves to Trump’s hate-filled gospel. They have earned their national and international reputation, all by themselves.

  • Rupert Muad’Dib

    Romans 13:1b “…the powers that be are ordained by God.”

    1 Peter 2:13-14 “Submit yourselves for the Lord’s sake to every human institution, whether to a king as the one in authority or to governors as sent by him for the punishment of evildoers and the praise of those who do right.”
    Biblical literacy, indeed. Yes, even Trump is placed in authority by & for God. To preach otherwise is to place yourself in contravention of God’s word.
    Psalms 111:10 “The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom, a good understanding have all those who do His commandments; His praise endures forever.”

  • Iain Lovejoy

    Not seeking to overthrow the state is not quite the same as not criticising it (or the halfwits who voted for them).


    Did God establish human government or are we to believe that every despotic leader is actually God’s will?

  • Patrick

    Yes, the trumpublicans followed these verses to a T when Obama was prez. Set a shining example as I recall!

  • Ron McPherson

    What’s just as scary is that they truly believe it and that such a mindset actually aligns with God’s.

  • CroneEver

    What scares me even more is the number of people among the White Evangelicals who apparently believe that God needs their help to bring about Biblical prophecy – and are going to do everything they can to make that happen, from raising red bulls to stirring up Armageddon.

  • Great article! Is everything God’s will? Judging by your followers and comments, there are many opinions on both sides. THANKS!

    Kathryn Sebanc
    Music Registry Inc

  • You are asking the wrong question.
    The real question is why did God allow President Obama to be elected? Because God does choose our leaders.
    On the surface Obama appears to be a liberal God send: speaks perfect PC, campaigns on “fundamental change”, talks about healing the racial divide, says he will end the war and so much more. The problem is he did none of that. Everything he touched went wrong.
    That is why God chose President Trump; to undo all the damage done by Obama and he is little by little.
    The liberals hate this and that is why they spend every waking minute plotting to destroy him. This blog follows that same thinking. But for what purpose other than playing to the crowd?

  • This blog does not believe in the bible unless it appears to support something they like.

  • Weak and prejudiced comment.

  • Robyn Payne

    I’ve always called him President Nebuchadnezzar. We only assume that because God called him an evil king, that the people didn’t like him.

  • Chuck Johnson

    “We got the wrong play, the wrong director, the wrong cast.
    Where did we go right?” – Max Bialystock.

  • Chuck Johnson

    We’re marching to a faster pace.
    Look out, here comes the Master Race !
    – Mel Brooks.

  • Chuck Johnson

    By means of shrewd lies, unremittingly repeated, it is possible to make people believe that heaven is hell — and hell heaven. The greater the lie, the more readily it will be believed.

  • Chuck Johnson
  • Chuck Johnson

    “Yes, even Trump is placed in authority by & for God. To preach otherwise is to place yourself in contravention of God’s word.”
    Yes, we all tremble at the words of Rupert and Bob.

  • Chuck Johnson

    The Bible will authenticate anything that you want to believe.

  • John 18.36
    Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If my kingdom were of this world, my servants would have been fighting, that I might not be delivered over to the Jews. But my kingdom is not from the world.”

  • Is Bob the witch?

  • IMHO fear is their master.

  • Chuck Johnson

    To me, he is.

    Wait a minute.
    There are two witches there.
    Bob is the one with the green face.

  • Peter Byl

    Jesus said “follow me”. That being the case we should speak up against what’s wrong just like He did.

  • Tim

    Hahaha. Excellent points!

    I think sometimes God allows us to have what we want so that we can (hopefully) see how foolish that desire actually was when it does backfire on us. “Be very careful what you wish for; you just might get it.”

  • Tim

    Terrible misuse of that verse (out of context, as well). That is not Paul’s point there.

  • Tim


  • Ron McPherson


  • mothersson2002

    God says we can have whatever we truly believe we want
    What we Christ following people have to do is to unifying in prayer like Trump’s crowd did and we will in return get a fantastic.democratic leader

  • mothersson2002

    And Trump supporters also spend every waking minute to destroy what Obama did.
    Plus whether you like him or not.Obama is one of the most popular presidents.

  • Peter, You need to examine the article you selected. Obamacare did not work and that is Obama’s first and only significant legislative “achievement.” The stimulus was a payoff to Obama supporters who tithed back to the democrats.In eight years under Obama the economy never achieved economic growth. He called it the “new normal.” Now you can see what a real economic recovery is like if you will but look….

  • Liberals have embraced the Progressive side of the party to their own demise. Tell me how Nancy Pelosi is the face of your party. I see that witch every time I see her face.

  • Notice that this blog has descended into the political because it is easier to get agreement on the unbiblical positions that progressives hold.

  • Only in your belief system. For example killing unborn babies is “pro-choice.”

  • That is precisely the problem. Progressives feel that they deserve a president that they like. Conservatives want a president that can fulfill his promises. You kid yourself: Obamacare self destructed, ISIS grew and the economy was stagnant. It’s not as personal as you imply.

  • Liar!

  • In AA we know fear is:

  • GeniusLemur

    Conservative is stung by a comment and predictably retreats to the “liberals are the really prejudiced ones” meme in a feeble attempt to deny that their side is composed of bigots and failures and the grifters that exploit them.

  • GeniusLemur

    If only liberals would embrace the values of the right, they could be as popular as Donald Trump! (Motto: “Approval rating never above 40%”)

  • GeniusLemur

    Then Saddam was also chosen by God, and those who opposed him were villains, including everyone who backed W’s plan to overthrow Saddam (evangelicals, for instance). Oh, and Ike must have been a truly awful villain for bringing down both Hitler and Mussolini.

  • Glad you responded. This country is not in need of another faux popular president. It is in trouble from the liberal policies of the last eight years. We have that in President Trump. The economy is smoking hot after only one year! Try explaining that away if you can?

  • Racist Slurs have lost their sting. See Aesop fables.

  • Bones

    “My Christian brothers and sisters on the Religious Right….”

    Nah, lost me there.

  • Bones

    Or just believe lies and hateful rhetoric….which is more likely.

  • Bones

    ISIS didn’t grow because of Obama derp.

    And Trump hasn’t done anything about ISIS.

    It’s been the Russians and the Iranian backed militias.

    And yes it was personal for you considering you were digging for Obama’s birth certificate.

  • Bones

    It didn’t work because of people like you.

    Please stay over there and don’t come over here and destroy our universal health system which Trump has said is better than yours.

  • Bones

    This from a guy who spent the Obama years ranting against the black president.

  • Bones

    God killed unborn babies….

    What does that say about god?

  • Bones

    They lost their sting when you posted them during the Obama years.

    We know what sort of bs you post and you worship Trump as the messiah.

  • Bones

    “faux popular president”…Lol it’s funny watching the circus that is the US.

    You people are the basket case of the world.

  • Chuck Johnson

    In your belief system, too.
    You have showed us this.

  • Chuck Johnson

    Politicians often present as despicable people.
    And often they are despicable.

  • Charles you are being disingenuous again.
    I looked back at Ben’s December blogs: 4 out of 6 talk about President Trump; his name is in the Title Block of 3!

    Liar, Liar; Pants on Fire to you….

  • Correct. Note that Trump is not a politician. He is cleaning out the swamp and the alligators are trashing violently.

  • Chuck Johnson

    Trump used to be a plutocrat.
    Now, he is both a plutocrat and a politician.

  • Dachusblot

    You’re already starting from a false premise that all leaders are chosen by God. Wouldn’t that also mean that God hand-picked Hitler, and Mussolini, and Stalin, and Saddam Hussein, and Kim Jong-un? That line of thinking falls apart very fast.

    Also, while President Obama had many faults and did not deliver on many of his promises, he wasn’t a bad president overall. He was mediocre at worst. Obamacare wasn’t what it was originally intended to be because Republicans did (and are still doing) everything they can to sabotage it. When Trump was elected, I was scared to death because, at the time, the only way I could afford healthcare was through Obamacare, which he promised to destroy. I didn’t care about the fact that Obama’s name happened to be attached to my healthcare; I just wanted to be able to live my life without the constant anxiety that if some major (or even minor!) health issue comes up for me, I’m going to financially drown. As it is now, I’m currently covered for healthcare by my job, but that’s because I got a promotion – not because of Trump. And if I lose my job or my benefits, I’m gonna be screwed again unless an option like Obamacare is out there.

    And that’s not even getting into the fact that Trump’s whole campaign was built around the patently ridiculous idea of wasting MY tax dollars to build a godawfully stupid border wall that would not only be a very ugly look for America, but also practically useless in keeping out all the *scary Mexicans*, as anyone with half a brain should be able to see. Or the fact that Trump has this childish attitude that the best way to deal with the dangerous brat in charge of North Korea is to act like even more of a brat, because obviously whoever yells and threatens loud enough and has the biggest, scariest military must be the strongest leader (i.e., 9 year old boy logic). Or the fact that he thinks climate change is a hoax. Or the fact that he pays lip service to Christianity while simultaneously acting as non-Christian as possible.

    These are just some of the reasons why I, a liberal Christian, hate Trump. None of those things have anything to do with Obama. The fact that you think that’s the reason liberals don’t like him is hilarious, and just shows how trapped in your own little bubble you really are.

    You know nothing, Jon Snow Bob Shiloh.

  • Ron McPherson

    “The stimulus was a payoff to Obama supporters who tithed back to the democrats.”

    If true, then thank God for those democrats. That stimulus act saved jobs where I worked at the time. I ought to know because I was CFO who oversaw the budget for the organization. Had it not been for it, over 100 people (teachers) would have been out of work, which would not only have negatively impacted those particular families, but would have been detrimental to the schools affected by it, detrimental to the students trying to achieve academic success, detrimental to the remaining teachers who would have been forced to pick up the slack, and in violation of state law with respect to pupil/teacher ratio requirements. The stimulus package did precisely what it was supposed to do where I worked, which was to enable us to ‘ride out’ the downturn until the economy recovered.

  • Al Cruise

    Trump is President solely because of white nationalism .

  • Herm

    You are historically the most deaf and blind we have commenting on this blog. You, sorry to say, are not the most dumb because we have to hear you. ????”the economy was stagnant“???? Where exactly was the economy when President Obama took office? Did it go down at any time, after he got it restarted, at any time during his time in office? Even with the non-declared cost of two wars, Medicare part-D, a massive tax cut, all under the Bush administration, having to be added to the budget, by the end of eight years, beginning to pay down the national debt was again in sight, as it was following the Clinton administration. Your president and his lackey conservatives just added 1.5 trillion more dollars to the national debt in their newest tax cut, and, today, borrowed another 800 million in this latest spending bill. To top this off, not counting the stock market realignment, your president, no matter how much he spins his lies, has not grown the economy over all better than did President Obama. These are the facts, not your alternative facts (lies).




    The Conservatives got a president who demands loyalty oaths, under a take serious threat of otherwise being fired, from all the legal caretakers of the law and Constitution for the people they serve to insure life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That loyalty oath, no different than demanded by any now non-democratic authoritarian who has taken down democracies, in our time, is for his protection first and next to be his tool to take down his opponents, including the law and Constitution serving to insure life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness for their people.

  • Ron McPherson

    Yeah, his own people

  • Ron McPherson

    Ya think?

  • Ron McPherson

    Obama must have run over Bob’s dog or something

  • Questioning

    LOL! But then after all he was a Muslim socialist, born who knows where, that took away all our guns and ran for a third term, even occasionally suggesting that we, as a nation, take a look in the mirror and consider our own flaws. Wait…. we have flaws?

  • Today another Justice Department official resigned and this scandal is just getting started.

  • Obama wasted $9 trillion of your tax dollars! Spent more than all presidents before him added together! Tell me what we got for $9 trillion dollars if you can?
    You foreign policy ideas are limited. The only way to stop a bully is to stand up to him.
    Climate is nothing but a hoax.
    What has Trump done to Christians if you know?
    Hatred of our President is a childish and useless expression of energy with no purpose. He will be our President
    for 7 more years! Get used to it.
    As far as who know something that remains to be seen.

  • Ron McPherson

    I suppose nobody has let FoxNews in on the Rob Porter story yet

  • kaydenpat

    You left out how King Saul died — on a battlefield in a war he couldn’t win — with his sons. Hmmm. Not a happy ending.

  • Bones

    Is hilary locked up yet?

  • Bones


    He’s appointing sychophants and yes men.

  • Al Cruise

    Trump became President because of white nationalism. I have talked to many who voted for him since the election and in private they will tell you , Trump will do something about the browning of America. The white death rate exceeds the white birth rate by a large margin. Plus the fact that most white millennial’s reject conservative evangelicalism , which leaves the Trump base staring into the face of extinction and they know it, because in the back of their minds they know numbers don’t lie. Many have told me they’re praying for Jesus to come and rescue them, that is the only hope they have left.

  • Matthew

    Hello Bob. Is a $500bn spending splurge really cleaning out the swamp?

  • You would be wrong. It has been on all day.

  • Trump vote largely followed those in the past two elections: McCain and Romney. But he did better in each category like blacks, hispanics and married women over 40.
    The reason democrats scream about open borders is that they need the brown vote to stay in power. A closed border will hurt thier future chances. I am a conservative with a wide circle of concerned like mined people and I can tell you that the “browning of America” is a democrat construct and a racial slur without peer.

  • Al Cruise

    Numbers don’t lie. You and your wide circle will have to learn how to deal with it. Choose wisely. https://www.brookings.edu/book/diversity-explosion/

  • Bones

    I see the Great Leader/Draft Dodger wants a military parade now…no surprise there….

  • Dachusblot

    Wrong. Going by what Obama was actually personally in control of, he spent $983 billion. A lot of that went to the War on Terror, which he did not start, and I don’t approve of all the ways he used that money. Most of it, however, came from the tax cuts and stipends he used to get the economy out of the recession, which I do approve of. And some of it was for the ACA, which I think I’ve already made clear I also approve of, despite its flaws, since I was not able to afford health insurance without it. Meanwhile Trump’s idiotic wall is estimated to cost around $21.5 billion, is not going to help anyone, is not going to stop illegal immigration, but *is* going to be a massive money-suck for years to come due to maintenance costs, and is also going to send a message to the rest of the world that the US is a massive douche of a nation.

    “The only way to stop a bully is to stand up to him.” Sorry, but as a Christian I can’t agree with this statement. The answer to a bully is not to be an even bigger bully; that only leads to a world run by bullies, all trying to out-bully each other. And when those bullies all have nuclear arsenals, well, then you have a world-ending scenario on your hands. De-escalating violence should be the goal, not escalating it. Also, I think it’s funny that you call my foreign policy ideas limited, while simultaneously claiming that there is only one overly simplified way to deal with the problem. Do you have any sense of irony at all?

    “Climate is nothing but a hoax.” Ummm… sure. Okay.

    “What has Trump done to Christians?” Ahem. I didn’t say that he did anything to Christians. I said that he paid lip service to Christianity, while acting distinctly un-Christian. Though the fact that you immediately translated “acting un-Christian” to “doing bad things to Christians” is… interesting.
    But, here are some ways that he acts un-Christian: he constantly insults and threatens his enemies, he loves money, he constantly brags about himself, he idolizes “winning” over all else in life and disdains those he sees as “losers,” he lies all the time, he has a history of not paying workers what he owes them, he has a history of treating women like garbage, he has a history of suing or threatening to sue people at the drop of a hat, and he says that he doesn’t ask for forgiveness because he doesn’t make mistakes…
    And then he goes on TV and says, “Oh, the Bible, God, Christmas, America, yes,” and foolish Christians blindly go, “Ohh, he’s one of us!” and eat it all up. He’s using the Christian faith as a cheap way to bolster himself, and unfortunately, it’s working. And it’s making all Christians look like a bunch of unprincipled hypocrites who can be bought off with a few shallow words.
    So I guess, actually, in a sense… yeah. He is hurting Christians.

    “Hatred of our President is a childish and useless expression of energy with no purpose.” Better tell that to all the conservatives who hated Obama. Or all the people who still spend so much time and energy hating Hillary, even though she’s not even the president. Talk about childish and useless, sheesh.

  • Bones

    Lol you have no idea how much Bob hated the Black president.

  • The two are not directly correlated. Let’s see where the deficit is after four years and we will know if Trump kept his fiscal promises. But as to the swamp:
    FBI Deputy Director Andrew McCabe.
    James A. Baker General Counsel for the Federal Bureau of Investigation.
    Mike Kortan, FBI assistant director for public affairs
    Counterintelligence and Export Control Section, David Laufman
    Bruce Ohr Department of Justice
    Peter Strzok Department of Justice
    Lisa Paige Department of Justice
    And this is just the start…

  • Bones

    Yep, the evil of Dispensationalism.

    One of the most dangerous ideologies in the world.

  • Bones

    You can bet the Draft Dodger won’t be on a battlefield……

  • Bones

    Actually German Christians actually believed their leaders were chosen by god.

    It’s amazing people still believe that bs when the whole point Paul was trying to make was don’t get involved in the Roman-Jewish War and rebellion.

  • Bones

    German Christians used those verses to kill Jews….

  • We, the voters who choose Trump over the Great Criminal, did choose wisely. The Progressive Wing of the democrat party, who wants open borders to stay in power, are cooked and done.
    Numbers can lie as in all the polls that predicted the Great Criminal would win. How did that work out?
    Now we are told numbers predict that the democrats will sweep Congress in the mid-terms. “Look at Trump’s favorability rating” they say. How is that working out as Trump’s rating jumped 15 points last week. Numbers do lie as the media, the fourth wing of the Progressive element, are complicit in this construct.

  • Bones

    Who voted for Trump?
    53% of men; 41% backed Clinton

    42% of women; 54% voted for Clinton

    58% of white voters – 37% backed Clinton

    8% of black voters – 88% voted for Clinton

    29% of Hispanics – 65% supported Clinton

    Mrs Clinton had the majority of voters on lower incomes, with 52% of those on incomes below $50,000 (£40,000) a year supporting her compared with 41% voting for her opponent. Among those earning more than $50,000, it was 49% to Mr Trump compared with 47% to Mrs Clinton.

    Mrs Clinton’s support among those on incomes below $30,000 was well down on President Obama’s in 2012. He had 63% support from that group compared with 35% voting for Mitt Romney, while Mrs Clinton had 53% support to Mr Trump’s 41%.

    There was also a big swing for voters without a high school diploma, with Mr Trump leading 51% to Mrs Clinton’s 45%. Four years ago, President Obama had 64% support from this group compared with Mitt Romney’s 35%.

    Mr Trump won the rural vote by 62% to 34% and the suburban vote by 50% to 45%, while Mrs Clinton won the urban vote by 59% to 35%.

  • Bones

    Actually it came down to the Rust Belt states and Clinton taking them for granted.

    Derp all presidents get a kick after the State of the union Address.

    What we see over here is how appalling US politics has become.

  • Bones

    So Trump romped home with the rural and less educated vote.

  • Bones

    Where’s Steve Bannon????

    Sean Spicer??

    Michael Flynn?

    Rince Priebus?

    Anthony Scarramucci???

    Not to mention the Russian moles like Manafort.

  • Bones

    Always look on the bright side of life……


  • Matthew

    Seems to me that Republicans (under Trump) are just as “Big Government” as the Democrats are.

    Also … it seems to me that Trump brought in a lot of Wall Street folk into his administration. That´s not draining or cleaning the swamp, Bob.

    Truth be told … Trump is not for the average, working man or woman. He is just as much for the rich elites as he has always been. Now on top of that he supports a $500bn increase in spending. This, as Rand Paul said, is the definition of hypocrisy and intellectual dishonesty.


  • If Obama can spend to fulfill his agenda so can Trump.
    “Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it.” One famous non-bully adherent: Arthur Neville Chamberlain
    Climate Change is another useless democrat construct designed to raise tax dollars to keep democrats in power.

    “What has Trump done to Christians?” ..I said that he paid lip service to Christianity, while acting distinctly un-Christian.
    A perfect example of Obama’s conduct. Example persecuting the Catholic Church and the Little sister of the Poor.

    …”he constantly insults and threatens his enemies, he loves money, he constantly brags about himself, he idolizes “winning” over all else in life and disdains those he sees as “losers,” he lies all the time”…Obama?

    As to the Great Criminal, Hillary Clinton, how does it feel to know it was Her and the democrat party who colluded with the Russians? How does it feel to know that it was the Obama administration who orchestrated the campaign of lies to try first to defeat Trump and then to discredit him? So far eight senior FBI and Department of Justice have been removed and this is just the beginning…

  • Matthew

    The only Democrat who can beat Trump in a general election, as I see it, is Bernie Sanders.

    The rest of the possible candidates offer nothing to those Rust Belt folks who voted for Trump (by and large). Those candidates only represent Wall Street interests and the billionaires just like Trump — AND — just like Hillary Clinton.

    Maybe there is someone waiting in the wings … but I don´t see anyone right now …

  • Chris Mooney

    The last ruler us Brits had who believed he had been appointed by god was king Charles I (the divine right of kings), it didn’t end well.

  • All I can say is just be glad that the Great Criminal, Hillary Clinton, was not elected. Hillary and Bill would have drained the US Treasury like a third world despot with no one to stop her. After all her crimes were overlooked she would have felt invincible. Fortunately she will not escape her part in the Clinton Global Initiative. Uranium One is going to finally be her Waterloo as she no longer can control the FBI and Justice Departments.
    If you were President and you had to fill slots like the Secretary of the Treasury where would you get a qualified candidate that had no Wall Street ties?

  • Ron McPherson

    Oh great, another REALITY program heehee

  • Matthew

    “If you were President and you had to fill slots like the Secretary of the Treasury where would you get a qualified candidate that had no Wall Street ties?”

    Maybe you should ask Bernie Sanders this question, Bob :-)

  • Ron McPherson

    That’s precisely what it says

    Edit: which is why so many white republicans love the electoral college. It works!

  • Ron McPherson

    I have close friends and family who actually voted for Trump because they somehow viewed him as the lesser of two evils. I wonder that some are slowly starting to rethink this. Others remain firmly in his corner, which to me is concerning bevause they still think he aligns with their Christian values. They oddly believe Obama was the epitome of evil. A lot of it is racism, plain and simple. I’m speaking of the ones I personally know. Ultimately, people can vote for whoever they want, but to support Trump under the illusion that it’s somehow Christian is the most troubling aspect to me.

  • Ron McPherson

    I actually think you make a good point. There was crossover, oddly enough, between Bernie and Trump supporters. I like much of Bernie’s philosophy but wealthy capitalists will fight it tooth and nail for obvious reasons

  • Ron McPherson

    Great post!!

  • Matthew

    There was indeed crossover between Bernie and Trump supporters, Ron.

    Many of them have basically the same needs and wants. I think the sound of an anti-establishment nationalist/populist who was going to bring back manufacturing to the working man was attractive to this section of the electorate (among other things).

    Bernie would have countered this narrative in a decisive way with his more social democratic policies and plans also designed to address the needs and wants of this group of voters. The wealthy capitalists would have fought the narrative tooth and nail, but I think with the help of the millennials Bernie would have taken the presidential victory lap.

    If Bernie makes it to the general election in 2020 (that is if he decides to even announce his candidacy), I think the game greatly changes. If not, we could very well see four more years of Trump :-(

  • Bones

    Bernie’s running for the senate this year as an Independent.

    Trump will defeat anyone churned out by the party machine.

  • Matthew

    I did not know that Bones. I just read a short article, though, about it from Oct. of 2017.

    According to the article, Sanders has always been an independent although he caucuses with Dems in D.C.

    I wonder if he could run successfully in 2020 as an independent??

  • Ron McPherson

    So the only way to defend your Trump is to rag on Obama and Hillary. Says a lot

  • Al Cruise

    Are you saying that beginning in 2011 there were not more minority babies born than white babies?

  • Matthew

    We could very well see Trump serving another 4 year term.

  • Ron McPherson

    Michael Flynn, Sean Spicer, Anthony Scaramucci, Reince Priebus, Rob Porter…oh wait, wrong group

  • Matthew

    I absolutely cannot believe it has come to this. What a sad day :-(

  • That is precisely the problem. Popular presidents are not necessarily effective presidents: Obama.
    Trump is not plotting to destroy anything he is carrying out his campaign promises one by one.
    Wait till you discover that Obama played a big role in the democrat Russian collusion; you will probably throw a tantrum.

  • Exactly. He paid teacher salaries in return for the Teachers Organization campaign contributions.

  • Dachusblot

    “If Obama can spend to fulfill his agenda so can Trump.” Yes. And I’m saying Trump’s agenda is godawfully stupid.

    “Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it.” … Really? This quote? You know this is what progressives have been saying about the rise of Trump, right? Comparing him to other fascists of the not-so-distant past? So you really do have no sense of irony. And, by the way, if that’s your argument in favor of deliberately provoking the North Korean brat with the nukes, then that’s a pretty poor argument. (Side note: Hitler did not have nukes. I think that would have made a wee bit of a difference.)

    “Climate change is a hoax, Obama totally persecuted Christians, Dems colluded with Russia, conspiracy, conspiracy, conspiracy” = yeah, yeah, sources please? (And no, InfoWars doesn’t count). What’s next, you going to tell me the Dems do Satanic child sacrifices in the non-existent basement of a pizza restaurant? Lol, give me a break. It’s not even worth my time or energy to prove to you that you’re wrong, because you are one of those who, as C.S. Lewis put it, would be “determined to cling to the first story for the sheer pleasure of thinking your enemies are as bad as possible.”

  • Dachusblot

    He paid teacher salaries??? Oh, the horror!!!!!!

    Meanwhile, Republicans do massive tax cuts in return for nice, fat paychecks from the Koch brothers. But tell me why it’s OK when a Republican does it?

  • Yes. Michael Flynn. You will be glad to know that his case will be thrown because Mueller will not be able to use the conversations they have because the warrant that got those conversations will be tossed like the garbage it is. The people I cited will probably be cited and tried for felonies related to lying to a judge to get a warrant to spy on an American citizen. The people you listed just lost their job the old fashion way; failure to perform.

  • Ron McPherson

    Wait. So you would be happy if the former US National Security Advisor who pleaded guilty to a felony of willfully making fraudulent statements to the FBI about his contacts with the Russian govt during Trump’s transition gets off on a technicality? You call Hillary Clinton a criminal even though no charges have ever been brought against her, while you would be happy that an admitted criminal gets off on a technicality. Apparently it’s all about Republican politics with you after all, huh. Gosh Bob. You could at least show just a smidgeon of integrity here.

  • Ron McPherson

    You must really have some kinda hate going on here. Obama could single handedly develop a pill to cure cancer and you’d probably claim he did it in order to pander to pharmaceutical companies.

  • Your proof would be too late. Trump is our president for the 7 years.

  • Bones

    He has to survive the first four first.

  • Al, I am saying Democrats have no program, no platform other than to hate Trump. Without facts they are reduced to racial slurs: white supremicist, bigoted, racist, homophobic, zenophobic, et. al. Hating Trump is not a message to run on. You question doesn’t seem to be in the field of play?

  • The tax cut is a crucial element in growing the economy. If you are watching it is working.
    The Teachers Union decides who to give the members money to and the members have no say. That is wrong and why Obama gave our money to the teachers; a legal quid pro.

  • Facts are facts. Presidential performance is not the same as liking a president. Obama did not perform well and Trump is.

  • It’s much more complicated than that and there is no equivalency at all. But it is too early to comment further.

  • Ron McPherson


  • Al Cruise

    I am saying Trump got elected because you and your wide circle are going to be a minority in a generation or so, that’s a fact that cannot be changed.. Voting for Trump was a death scream by yourself and your wide circle to hold onto your privilege. Just like actions of the white supremacists in Charlottesville, a death scream. If you would read the book I referenced you will see diversity will be a good thing. I have listened to many conversations since the election from white Conservative evangelicals and this is their fear above all else.

  • Ron McPherson

    “…it is too early to comment further.”

    So you have inside knowledge but can’t tell the rest of us yet? C’mon Bob. Let us in on it. I promise I won’t tell more than 100 of my closest friends.

  • Trump got elected because he ran a better campaign; promised to close the border and revive the economy. It had nothing to do with race. That is another democrat construct which failed badly.
    Diversity is alive and well in this country. Your view that we are in minority camps is fueled by Liberal Professors and the Democrat machine.

  • The problem is that we don’t have enough information. I haven’t see General Kelly’s indictment. I just know he was caught in a lie like Bill Clinton. When we see what lie we will know how it’s going to go. But if the information came from the spying it is more than likely the evidenced will be exclude as it should.

  • Al Cruise

    “Your view that we are in minority camps is fueled by Liberal Professors and the Democrat machine.” LoL , Read my post, I am hearing it from conservative evangelicals.

  • LUX

    Then the Religious Right should also consider the possibility that all the presidents in the past were picked by God too, including Obama, Clinton, Carter … those whom they don’t respect.

  • Bones

    Fun fact: Presidents can’t get much done when they have a hostile senate.

    That’s why you’re not living in a dictatorship.

    Another fun fact: Voters usually balance extreme results eg over here several ruling parties were all but wiped out but were governing by the next election. Neither have we had governments with full control of both of our houses of legislature so they have to negotiate.

    It’s called checks and balances.

    No opposition is actually terrible for democracy and if there is none factions normally rise in the ruling party to provide it. And voters will rebel against a government with unlimited power and no accountability.

  • Bones

    Derp, the government over here pays my wages.

    Who pays teachers in the US? McDonalds?

  • Bones

    Is that the wife beater?

  • Samalabear

    Obama’s rise to the ascendance of the American Throne was equally as bizarre. And when you throw in the McCain-Palin factor, well, it is really, really, really bizarre. In fact, if you don’t think it was bizarre you really need to do some studying. Why did Bernie Sanders’ get so far in the 2016 elections and, but for Hillary and gang, probably would have won the D spot against Trump? Because Obama was a splash of massive cold water for a whole lot of people. Every “temporary king” of America has their diehard “groupies,” no matter how horrendous their actions. This has to do with idol worship. That Hillary didn’t get in is, of course, a very good things, because much would still be shoved under the proverbial rug. But Trump is no savor and, frankly, the so-called right needs that massive splash of cold water. Will they get it? We’ll see.

    Here’s a blog that I ran into yesterday: https://www.rivalnations.org/thanksgiving-genocide/

    Of course, that’s just one article. No, America is not a Christian nation, and never was. Yes, Obama was right about that, because he works for the real rule of this nation, and all fleshly nations. It is simply stunning to me that I only started really delving into the Bible in late 2013, and was led out of the religious mess in March of 2014. I have been led strictly by the Holy Spirit, and this blog site I found yesterday, when I was feeling a lot of despair. But as of right now I have read so many of the very coherent articles on this site and they dovetail with what the Holy Spirit has shown to me.

    I do not understand how anyone who has supposedly always had their nose stuck in the Bible (unlike those of us born and raised in Catholicism) doesn’t get anything that is clearly written. They want to live according to the Old Covenant, and they love idolizing and depending on “earthly princes” and the “arm of flesh.”

    Oh, and on bizarre, Clinton was also strange. In fact, with all sorts of allegations swirling around, things that took any other number of candidates down, the term “teflon candidate” was used when referring to Clinton.

    And, no, Jesus is not a socialist, he is not a communist, he is not a capitalist — Frankly, very tired ot the so-called right and left trying to fit Jesus into a worldly paradigm created by man, none of which has anything to do with love — agape love, not that mushy hippy-type-let’s all get along, which is what is ushering in the NWO and the One World Religion.

    But for those who want to pick and choose out of the Old Testament, read 1 Samuel and read about what God thought about the Israelite’s desire to be ruled by a king “like everybody else.” God, through Samuel, told them exactly what would happen, but he let them have their king. The Old Testament is there for us to learn from, after we have read and meditated deeply on the Gospels. I hope the blog that I listed here helps many, as it has me. It really cuts through all the dross. It is called Rival Nations, because you can either be a citizen of the Kingdom of God or the nation you live in, but not both. And eventually all these “earthly” nations will be done away with, every single one of them.

  • Questioning

    When Obama took office the unemployment rate was 7.8%. When he left it was 4.8%.
    11,488,000 jobs were created during the Obama administration.
    The stock market was at less than 8000 when he took office. When he left it was almost 20,000.
    Explain those numbers away.
    As far as I can tell Tweetler has done nothing for the economy, well, except maybe to lift a pen and sign a tax reform bill crafted by the Republican majority in Congress. Tweetler inherited a restored economy that, thanks in large part to the Obama administration, was already heading in the right direction. Like him or not, facts are facts, and Obama did much good during his 2 terms as President.

  • George

    So what’s your answer, Dr Ben? President Hillary? Do you SERIOUSLY think that would have been a better option? Can you actually call yourself a Christian and also vote for somebody who is 100% pro-abortion? Can you call yourself a Christian who cares for women, yet vote for a woman who attacked the women her husband raped?

    I didn’t vote for Trump, but this relentless anti-Trump tripe on Patheos is absolutely stupid.

  • George

    Hahaha – I trust you’re being sarcastic.

  • George

    Hahahahaha – you keep telling yourself that, “Al.”

  • George

    Well “Al” here’s an eye-opener for you. (Actually, it won’t open your eyes because you’re eyes are permanently closed, but I digress…)

    I was an election official in the 2016 Election, worked a precinct that is over 95% black. At 2:00 PM we had to do a “stop” in order to count all ballots and make sure everything matched the number of voters, etc.

    Easily 1/3rd of the voters in that overwhelmingly black precinct voted for Trump. They’d never admit it publicly, but the numbers don’t lie.

    Don’t be surprised if you’re crying this same river 4 years from now, after Trump is re-elected to a second term. It’s becoming more likely every day.

  • Bones

    Comparing Trump’s attitude towards women with Clinton’s is frankly stupid.

    And HIllary lost.

    The whole point of the article was those on the Right who view Trump as the messiah.

    There’s a mess in the US alright but no messiah.

    You have to be totally moronic to believe Trump is a conservative.

  • Bones

    “but the numbers don’t lie.”

    If that’s the case than other black precincts must have voted totally against Trump….

    Who voted for Trump?
    53% of men; 41% backed Clinton

    42% of women; 54% voted for Clinton

    58% of white voters – 37% backed Clinton

    8% of black voters – 88% voted for Clinton

    29% of Hispanics – 65% supported Clinton

    As for Trump’s second term, he hasn’t survived his first yet.

  • Obama’s record is his record. The numbers are correct but misleading. It is often said Obama inherited the worst recession since man was created and so many of those jobs were re-created. The workforce participation rate and average hourly wage tell the rest of the story. This was part of the Democrat problem. Obama and his acolytes told us that the economy was “better by every measure” but the people knew something was wrong because they did not feel it in their wallets. If you would open your eyes and look at what is happening you see what an exploding economy looks like. Obama comparisons will soon fade away.
    The tax legislation and reduction in legislation are having a dramatic impact on the economy. The Democrats know this strategy would work and that is why they have fought against it like the radicals they are. Nancy Pelosi said the tax act would be apoplectic and the reduction is crumbs This will hurt democrats in the future.
    Obama is a progressive left wing liberal and governed as one rather than moving to the center as did Bill Clinton did. If he had his record would have been better and perhaps the Great Criminal, Hillary Clinton, would have won. Thanks God she did not and the cleansing process has begun. The only question left unknown at this time is why she will need a Trump pardon. That will be a lovely day indeed.

  • George

    Who’s claiming that Trump is a conservative?

    Did you leave that comment in the wrong place?

  • George

    …and yet all the pre-election and exit polls were wrong.

    Despite your hyperventilating, Trump is President.

  • Bones

    Trump being president had nothing to do with black votes which were nearly 90% against Trump. The data’s overwhelming where Trump made his gains – uneducated whites and in rural areas.

    I understand that people like you prefer fake news to facts.

    But hey the rest of the world is laughing at you and the complete and utter nutcase which is US politics.

    What the last election showed (and the complete nonsense since) is how f***ed up your system of government is.

  • George

    And I understand that uneducated dolts like you don’t read before you comment.

    I am neither uneducated, nor a Trump voter.

    You, on the other hand, are an imbecile who can’t shut up.

  • Bones

    Derp, the conservatives who voted for Trump that’s who.

    Oh and can you actually call yourself a Christian and also vote for someone who mocks the disabled? Can you be a Christian and vote for someone who preaches hatred and division and to bash people at their rallies? Can you be a Christian and vote for someone who doesn’t pay his workers? Can you be a Christian and vote for someone who openly lies?

    The answer for you is obviously yes.

    Which says a lot about your Christianity.

  • Bones

    I read it dickhead. It’s quite clear where Trump got his support from.

    It seems to you that figures do lie….when you don’t like them, moron.

  • George

    Do you even read comments before you mouth off?

    Here’s your sign: I’ll guarantee you that I’m far more educated than you are.
    Here’s your second sign: I didn’t vote for Trump.
    Here’s your third sign: One more idiotic comment from you and I’m going to block you. That’s not a threat at all. I simply don’t abide imbeciles.

    Stupid being stupid.

  • Bones

    Lol….my dick’s bigger than yours.

    What a childish moron.

    Actually I was referring to your bs

    “Can you actually call yourself a Christian and also vote for somebody who is 100% pro-abortion? Can you call yourself a Christian who cares for women, yet vote for a woman who attacked the women her husband raped?”

    That’s what it was in response to.

    Or maybe you’re so stupid you forgot about it.


  • George

    Yep, I was right.

    And you’re blocked. Please enjoy having the last word, Oh Great Keyboard Warrior of Mommy’s Basement.

  • Bones
  • Bones

    Oh dear…someone’s had a sook because their bullshit is called.

    Hey here’s your hero….


  • Bones

    Dems flipped a seat that Trump won by a huge margin…..

    Democrat wins special election in Trump heartland Missouri

    Since Trump’s inauguration, Democrats have flipped 35 contested seats, the Democratic Legislative Campaign Committee said in a statement.


    Maybe Roy Moore’s defeat wasn’t a one off.

    And maybe God’s changing his mind.

  • Questioning

    “The tax legislation and reduction in legislation are having a dramatic impact on the economy. ” Too early to tell about this really. Short term looks ok… maybe.

    You said one factual thing… “Obama’s record is his record.” The rest is just biased bluster.

  • Al Cruise

    You just nailed the mindset of white nationalism perfectly. WOW!!!

  • otrotierra

    Yes, exactly as Al Cruise wrote below. History will remember U.S. White Evangelicals for their devotion to White male sexual predators like Trump, Josh Duggar, Roy Moore, and Andy Savage. White Evangelicals alone are responsible for the reputation they have earned.

  • jekylldoc

    45 rose to the Republican nomination because of white nationalism, that’s pretty clear. The fact that he then won the Presidential election comes down to a great many factors. “Solely” is not even close. When asked to account for this abomination by my overseas friends, I usually talk about a “perfect storm” of white nationalist fears of losing their majority, of Baker-gate paranoia that the gummint is going to force Christians to violate their conscience, of a certain private email server, of #BlackLivesMatter generating fear of anti-police action, of a surge in Muslim refugees coinciding with a rise in terrorism in Europe (Je Suis Charlie) and, not least, of accumulated frustration and anger over an extended recession and erosion of manufacturing jobs in the Midwest. I could add a few, but those were the main stories of 2016 that led otherwise sensible people to accept this thug for the presidency.

  • bill wald

    God chooses all national leaders. When Whatshisname was invading Judah, God called him “my servant.” St Paul ordered Christians to obey rulers and those in authority because it is for our good.

  • jekylldoc

    So Hitler was God’s doing? Ouch.

  • bill wald

    Several ears ago, I gave up trying to understand God and don’t trust people who claim they do. I trust, I don’t understand. Life is easier when one knows what one will never understand.

  • Judgeforyourself37

    I have never missed a chance to vote, since I was 21, and I am now 81. For many years my grandmother could not vote, and told me to never miss going to the polls, and I have not. I will be voting this November, and vote Blue, for the Democrats who are in the race.
    Many Democrats sat home in 2016, out of complacency, but they will not this election cycle. A Blue Wave is rolling in.

  • Judgeforyourself37

    And those 30 folks who are no longer in the administration??????? It is similar to rats deserting a sinking ship. LMAO

  • Judgeforyourself37

    Oh, Bob, your racism is showing

  • Charles Winter

    No one is “pro-abortion”; Ms. Clinton is pro-choice. There is a difference. After a long career of being pro-choice, President Trump now finds it politically expedient to call himself “pro-life,” and you apparently believe him.

    Also note the history of the Republican Party. The Supreme Court that legalized abortion in 1972 had a majority of Republican appointees, as has every court since. The GOP had a majority in both houses of Congress plus the presidency from 2003 through 2006 and again for the last year, over which time no bills to ban abortions were even introduced, much less passed. Abortion has been a big election issue for the GOP; do you actually think that they’re going to give up that issue?

    And look at the “pro-life” movement itself. The evangelical churches didn’t get involved until several years after Roe v. Wade. Also note that many of the supposed “remedies” — such as defunding Planned Parenthood — would actually increase the number of abortions; Planned Parenthood prevents more abortions than it provides by providing pregnant women with prenatal and other healthcare.

    And do the GOP or the “pro-life” movement do anything to help a woman have and raise a child? Not a thing. In fact, the GOP makes it tougher for poor families — and poor women, in particular — to raise children; cutting back day care, healthcare, any help with living expenses. Once born, the child is on its own.

    Do you at least see why I put quotes around the term “pro-life”? Because that’s just an advertising term with no meaning at all.

  • George

    Pro-choice is pro-abortion, no matter how you spin it. And the main reason so many people are pro-abortion is because there’s HUGE money in it. And Planned Parenthood is a baby butchering business, nothing less.

  • Ken Lucas

    Trust me, they have an answer for that also. When all else fails they’ll say :”Yeah but………

  • Ken Lucas

    Aquaintances: I personally know, and live around 12 different people who proudly voted for and still support Trump, and all of them have the following things in common.

    1.White middle-aged males and females
    2.Serious anger issues
    3.Multiple failed marriages/ relationships
    4.Racial/ Ethnic attitudes
    5.Contempt for those less fortunate than themselves
    6. Insecure to the max
    7.Dress- slipshod, wrinkled, and fairly unkempt appearances
    8. BITTERNESS (“my ex wife is a whore…ex husband lowdown dirty dog, babies dad is a piece of shee-yot”….
    9.Selfish- Self-centered to the max.

    These are people that I see on a daily basis. What’s your take on this?

  • William Gaines

    Ken the first thing you said 1.White middle-aged males and females is Racial attitudes remember Blacks are every bit as racist as everybody else.

  • William Gaines

    Given the alternative (Hilary) God had to pick Trump

  • jekylldoc

    Funny, your previous statement seemed to claim a lot of understanding. Consider the possibility that you are putting your trust in the people who told you “you will never understand” rather than in a God who sends people to the gas chambers for being, e.g. gypsies.

  • Ivlia Vespasia

    Hmm, article about Trumps likeness to Saul and comments become a puerile and childish slanging match on abortion. The names of the writers (of the comments) appear to be all male. When you have been pregnant and needed a termination because of medical reasons, rape or any other heartbreaking reason, then you can comment. Otherwise stick to commenting on the written article. Incidentally, pro choice is NOT pro abortion, there are many choices of which abortion is only one.

  • Bones

    Yeah Judgie, it wouldn’t surprise me to see a backlash against Trumpism.

  • Vega-Mark

    No way for such misleader much worse than Hillary & he’s against most minorities, racist, sexist, fascist, greedy, destroyer of environment, warmonger, divider, unfriendly to neighbor of south the Mexicans, corrupted, pro man more than pro woman, mental unstable, wasteful spending, favor rich more than poor, destroyer of health care, etc.!

  • $144948586

    “So Trump romped home with the rural and less educated vote.”
    Damn dude, that’s mean.

    If only “less educated” meant something:
    “‘You are Israel’s teacher,’ said Jesus, ‘and do you not understand these things?'”

    Your supremacy is showing.

  • SamHamilton

    It probably says more about the demographics of the area in which you live than anything about the average Trump voter. I live in a pretty well-off part of the country (outside Washington, D.C.) and know some people who voted for Trump. They live stable, normal lives. You wouldn’t be able to tell them apart from your average anti-Trump conservative or average progressive in the area. If I lived in a low-income part of D.C. I’d probably run into a lot of Clinton voters whose personal lives are chaotic and messy, who are slipshod in dress and display all sorts of anti-social behavior. This doesn’t say anything about Clinton voters, but about the demographics of the geographic area.

  • SamHamilton

    From my count, only one commenter (other than you) brought up abortion: George. While it’s off topic for this blog post and thus wise to avoid it, if the topic of this blog post was abortion, anyone should feel free to discuss it, not just people who needed to abort their pregnancy.

    All people who support abortion rights are not pro-abortion, though I have met some people who actually think abortion is a good thing. They consider having an abortion as a blow against the patriarchy or that it’s an act of liberation from constraints nature has unjustly imposed upon women or that women should proudly “shout” their abortions or similar nonsense.

  • apoxbeonyou

    Wrong spelling; also, God didn’t pick Trump. If he had, then he picked Obama. *mind blown*

  • apoxbeonyou

    I call B.S., sir. The first thing a racist says is “but but but *THEY* are racist, too!”.

    And look up systemic racism in the U.S.

  • ollie

    But most “prolife” people are not pro life they are pro birth! A big big difference!

  • ollie

    You are absolutely right Jesus wasn’t a communist! He was a d–n pinko commie!


  • ollie

    Obama / Trump Same coin different poisons. The work for the same masters.

  • George

    No, that’s actually not true at all.

    I’m part of a church where several families foster children and have tried in vain to adopt those kids. These are families that are pro-life through and through, in a church that is pro-life through and through.

    The problem is that they’re running into a foster system – run by a liberal government – that is so completely corrupt and screwed up that these families are about to give up. It’s a jacked-up foster system that reunites biological families even though it means putting toddlers back with a recently released dead-beat dad who has an ongoing struggle with violence and drug abuse.

    Our government-run institutions are stripping babies and children away from great people, and putting them into the homes of horrible people to be abused and neglected, and sometimes killed. And you’re going to tell me that pro-life is nothing but pro-birth?!?!?! TOTAL bs.

  • ollie

    The Republicans were so disrespectful of President Obama. It was a disgrace and a disservice to the American people. The spent 8 years trying not to do anything because they didn’t want a baboon (and worse) to get any credit!

    And after a half white president the idea of having a female president was just too much for the right to deal with. And Trump hit all the right buttons: Race, women should be kept in their place, going to make America great again (jobs).

    All based on lies. Well one was a miss direction. He does plan to make America great again for the moneyed class. The rest of us? Well let’s just say, we hope you like pig slop!

  • ollie

    I said that most are not prolife but pro birth! At least get the wording right!

  • ollie

    Ultimately it comes down to the Powers That Be have decided that there are too many useless workers and it is time to start culling the herd. Trump will start the process rolling much faster than Hillary could have.

  • George

    And I said you’re wrong.

    This whole “pro-birth” argument is nothing but an oft-repeated liberal obfuscation.

  • apoxbeonyou

    You have no idea how efficient Clinton would have (or would not have been). Stop comparing.

    Also, who is ‘worthless’? Are we talking bureaucrats? If so, Mr. T. has already hired (and fired) more of those since he came into office. He just added more muck to the swamp.

  • ollie

    Of course the pro birth argument is wrong because you people don’t have the guts to admit to yourselves that when you want a baby born to a family that has no money to take care of that child because both work full-time in jobs like Walmart and McD’s, you believe they don’t need or deserve food stamps, health care. You don’t want them to get prenatal care. Nor do you think you should provide schooling or decent housing. Your against a living wage. But at least if they make it to 18 then you can get something useful out of them as cannon fodder.

    For most it is a pro birth movement because they don’t give a d–n about the child after birth.

  • Ron McPherson

    “And Planned Parenthood is a baby butchering business, nothing less.”

    Abortion accounts for about 3% of Planned Parenthood’s health services. Educate yourself.

  • Ron McPherson

    There’s plenty of misinformation going around on the GOP side. This is a bigger issue than partisan politics. The pro-life crowd lose credibility when they misinform the public. At least be honest about it. 97% of Planned Parenthood services are not even about abortion. Many of its services assist low income women with breast exams, pap smears, etc. Spreading misinformation and hating everything about the agency is why many “pro lifers” are instead labeled merely “pro birthers,” and no wonder.

  • ollie

    The problem with Hillary is that she sees even useless workers as human. Trump doesn’t have that problem.

    But then nationalists always have had more problems in playing well with others.

    In my opinion both would have been bad. We just ended up with the greater of two evils.

  • George

    Ron, that’s like saying only 3% of your meal at a steak house is the steak itself. We all know that’s BS. And we know that same claim from Planned Parenthood is total BS.

  • George

    Yeah you continue to be wrong, Ollie, but that’s okay. You’re a far-left liberal. You live in your own make–believe world anyway.

  • apoxbeonyou

    I can’t see the state of the union being any worse than it is right now. So I 100% disagree.

    I’m not sure how you are able to know how HC ‘sees’ people, since I haven’t heard or say anything to that sort. Trump, however, is a unrepentant jerk, who has repeatedly belittled anyone he sees as beneath him (which is pretty much everyone except his ‘base’).

  • ollie

    So you believe it is right to force a man and woman to bring a child into this world and then leave it strave to death or die from a correctable defect because they can’t afford an operation?

  • ollie


    My point was that while Hillary is terrible, Trump makes makes Hillary look like a Girl Scout that is always helping little old ladies across the street.

  • Ron McPherson

    And you know this is BS how?

  • Bones

    Derp Jesus wouldn’t vote for Trump.

    Well done for displaying your lack of education.

  • George

    Gee Ollie – that’s EXACTLY what I said. (eye roll as an appropriate response)

  • George

    Because I read more widely than just pro-abortion propaganda. You should too.

  • $144948586

    He wouldn’t vote for Hillary either, no matter what the “educated” say.

  • ollie

    Well I am happy with being socialist libertarian. But I question if you are happy as a fascist?

  • ollie

    opps reread this. The “useless workers?” It refers to the fact that the PTB believes that most of the workers in the world are redundant and can be gotten rid of.

  • George

    And there ya go with more idiotic grasping accusations.

    I’m going to go ahead and block you now. You’re just not worth squashing.

  • bill wald

    Wrote my recollection of what I read in the Bible. Didn’t claim to understand it.

  • Ron McPherson

    Ah ok. So you cannot cite a source then?

  • Ron McPherson

    Below is a direct quote from you:
    “Planned Parenthood is a baby butchering business, nothing less.”

    Obviously you are asserting that Planned Parenthood is in operation for the express purpose of “baby butchering.” We can debate the validity of the 3 percent number (i.e. that abortion accounts for 3 percent of PP health services). What is absolutely in dispute, however, is your claim that PP is in business solely to perform abortions. That’s just not true, no matter how much you want to believe it.

    Go here:

    The mission of FactCheck:
    “We are a nonpartisan, nonprofit ‘consumer advocate’ for voters that aims to reduce the level of deception and confusion in U.S. politics. We monitor the factual accuracy of what is said by major U.S. political players in the form of TV ads, debates, speeches, interviews and news releases. Our goal is to apply the best practices of both journalism and scholarship, and to increase public knowledge and understanding.”

    My purpose in this discussion is to seek truth. Now if you want to instead claim that just one abortion is wrong, then that’s certainly your prerogative. But you lose credibility when claiming that PP is in the “baby butchering business, nothing less,” because it is just not factually correct. If you want to be taken seriously, I would suggest you not allow yourself to be unduly influenced by propaganda (that includes both pro-life AND pro-choice influencers).

  • ollie

    I guess he’s not happy? [Shrugs]

  • George

    Rather ironic, considering all you have to cite is BS from Planned Parenthood.

    Have you ever stopped to ask yourself if baby butcherers might be a bit dishonest?

  • Ron McPherson

    Um…look again

  • Bones

    You can shout at the data all you want.

    The simple fact is Trump won among the working class -ie those without college degrees and also rural areas.

    It was they who overwlmingly elected Trump which makes your quote taken totally out of context even more stupid.
    But then stupid seems to be what you post.

    Seems someone needs a safe place.

  • Bones

    Hilary was terrible and is now fish and chip paper.

    Time to look to the future.

  • Bones

    Like God picked Hitler…..oh and Tojo….

  • Bones

    Trying to excuse your racism by pointing to others doesn’t change the fact that you’re racist.

  • Bones

    Yeah women go out an get pregnant and abort the foetus just to shout out women’s liberation. Oh and probably just to upset types like you.

    Do you read the shit you write or what?

  • Bones

    Fits the mould of most Trump supporters……

  • Bones

    Lol people are pro-abortion because of the money….

    No surprise that idiots like you think like that.

  • Bones

    Oh no, George has blocked you because your present facts…..

  • $144948586

    “You can shout at the data all you want.”
    What data?

  • ollie


  • apoxbeonyou

    I think i get you; thanks!

  • apoxbeonyou

    Misunderstood; thanks!

  • apoxbeonyou

    Understandably, but maybe there is a better way to read those passages. Did God actually say those things or did some person attribute his own ideas for God? I mean, those books weren’t written as they happened; they were written down later. My 2 cents, I guess.

  • ollie


  • ollie


  • Ken Lucas

    Demographics here in Englewood, Colorado are upper middle class also.

  • Ken Lucas


  • ollie

    My guess we will have until 25. Unless he blows up the world. Or actually does manage to make himself dicktator (spelling intentional) for life.

  • SamHamilton

    FYI Ron….the Washington Post fact checker gave that 3% figure three Pinocchios. It’s probably not good to take Planned Parenthood’s figures at face value.


  • SamHamilton

    I suspect we’re talking about different demographic groups. The average median family income in my town is about $55k more than in Englewood.

  • Ken Lucas

    The hell difference does it make? You want a freakin cookie? LOL

  • SamHamilton

    I’ll take any cookies your handing out! Mmmm…

    My point is that there are other factors at work here, and it’s probably not wise to draw conclusions about millions of Americans based on a few anecdotes from your hometown.

  • Ron McPherson

    which for full disclosure is why I posted Factchecker as well

  • SamHamilton

    Okay… The Post fact checker is questioning the 3% figure. Perhaps some more caution is needed before posting dodgy stats along with snarky comments like “educate yourself.”

  • Ron McPherson

    I’ll stand behind my ‘snarky comment’ because he does need to educate himself. The main point I was making was addressing his absurd claim that Planned Parenthood exists only to ‘butcher babies.’ I acknowledged in a post (right behind the 3% post) that the percentage can be debated (before you brought it up here). Are you just ignoring that? The main issue in dispute is his claim that PP does nothing but ‘butcher babies’ (which utterly ignores the myriad other health services administered on behalf of poor women).

  • Ron McPherson

    I also find it odd that the majority of conservative pro-lifers also are advocates for capital punishment (at least it seems that way; I could be wrong).

  • ollie

    So do I.

    The most consistent group are Catholics. While I don’t really agree with them, if I was to support a antiabortion group they would be it. Funny thing is, most antiabortion people consider them radical.

  • otrotierra

    Thank you Ron for continuing to affirm facts without apology, no matter how politically offensive it is to do so.

  • Ficino

    Dr. Corey, you are wrong. Trump is not Saul. Trump is Cyrus.

  • “Pro-life” is pro-murder. I would not be alive if my mother had not been able a to terminate a pregnancy which would have killed her, years before she conceived and bore me. I take it personally that you want my mother to have died (and me not to exist). “Pro-life” people generally also support capital punishment, war, and expensive health insurance. I don’t buy it.

  • John C Holbert

    Dr. Corey, I quite agree that Trump is far worse than my fevered imagination feared he might be, but the fact is your analogy with Saul is not as apt as it may first appear. If you read the fabulous story in 1 Samuel more carefully, you will find that Samuel is the real danger here, a kind of Franklin Graham clone who, unlike Samuel, however, crowns the king but then does all he can to set him up for failure and finally deposes him. Less than humbly, I would suggest a reading of my novel, King Saul, for a fictional retelling of the Bible’s story that attempts to demonstrate my portrayal.

  • George

    Probably one of the single stupidest things I’ve ever read. Congrats to you.

  • Bones

    There was also a big swing for voters without a high school diploma, with Mr Trump leading 51% to Mrs Clinton’s 45%. Four years ago, President Obama had 64% support from this group compared with Mitt Romney’s 35%.

    Mr Trump won the rural vote by 62% to 34% and the suburban vote by 50% to 45%, while Mrs Clinton won the urban vote by 59% to 35%.

  • Bones

    Lol 13 Russians indicted……

    Here’s What The ’13 Russians’ Were Indicted For

    Thirteen Russians were indicted on Friday as part of the sweeping Russian 2016 election meddling investigation. None of the 13 individuals named in the indictment were well-known oligarchs or affiliated with any Russian corporation. Russian stocks continued to trade lower in the mid-afternoon hours, regardless.

    The Russians were part of a company called the Internet Research Agency, which Special Counsel Robert Mueller described as a “Russian organization engaged in operations to interfere with elections and political processes.” The individuals were indicted on two counts and — if upheld — the defendants will be forced to turn over profits made from the operation, or risk losing assets of similar value. It is unclear how the courts will uphold the charges against the individuals, especially if they are no longer in the United States.

    The 13 Russians used stolen identities from American citizens to promote political activist campaigns that were mostly pro-Trump. Affiliated groups also held rallies in favor of Hillary Clinton. The individuals were never cited for tipping the election in favor of Trump, but were blamed for falsifying documents and foreign meddling in the election.

    They were charged with two counts.

    Count one: Conspiracy to defraud the United States

    Mueller said the defendant’s goal was to impair, obstruct and defeat the functions of the presidential election by “dishonest means.” The targetted actions began in May 2014.

    In September 2016, FBI investigators found an email from one of the defendants’ Facebook page called Secured Borders that account operators were being criticized for having too low a number of anti-Hillary posts. “It is imperative to intensify criticizing Hillary Clinton” in future posts, according to the indictment.

    Two months later, a defendant-run activist group called United Muslims of America sent messages on social media calling for like-minded individuals to boycott the election and not vote for Hillary because of her support of the Iraq War.

    Count two: Conspiracy to commit wire fraud and bank fraud

    Beginning in 2016 and as late as March 30, 2017, the 13 Russians managed to steal the identities of U.S. citizens and used those IDs to open up bank accounts. The accounts were used to receive and send money for a variety of purposes, including pay for expenses, Facebook ads and to receive money from advertising from merchants and unaffiliated social media sites.

    The indictment does not estimate any profit amount from this endeavor.

    The indictment includes the “conspirators” with individuals “known and unknown” to the Grand Jury, but does not name or hint to the nationalities of the other co-conspirators.

    For the full indictment and explanation of all charges see here.


  • Rullbert Boll

    If Putin is God, your fundie friends may actually be right, Please inform them about that possibility!

  • Rullbert Boll

    Trump is the Beast 666. He is nothing like Cyrus.

  • Rullbert Boll

    Thank you for sharing! I take it that Trump’s narcissism make them feel better in their own narcissism: “a guy like us, he cannot fail”.

  • Rullbert Boll

    From that I presume that you have another God than me. I wouldn’t like to meet your God because he is obviously an evil guy standing in conflict with the God of the New Testament.

  • Rullbert Boll

    “Life is easier when one knows what one will never understand.” Till you get problems that you cannot solve because of a lack of understanding. Then you’re a gonner.

  • Conservatives want a president that can fulfill his promises.

    Hey Bob, how much does your health insurance cost? According to Trump, you should be paying $12 a year and the cost should never increase. That’s the case, right?

  • Those wascally Democrats! Like Ronald Reagan! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUXXw6xr4gI

  • Incidentally, I find it hilarious that Christians, who so frequently see the Antichrist behind every corner and Satan’s fingers in every pie, are completely cool with Trump having a lot of murky, extremely questionable activities floating around his son-in-law’s building number 666.

  • That is a campaign promise that I never heard that. Do you have the quote?

  • Alex Whitaker

    Well written and theologically sound. Keep in mind, that stick has two ends to it, and we have to be open to the idea that maybe the same thing applies to past presidents as well. Meaning, I’m sure others felt the same way 8 years ago. We can not know for sure what God’s position is, and I’d be wary of anyone that claims to know for sure.

  • Joslyn Renfrey

    In many ways, I see trump as a great uniter in the same sense that the nazis were for the allies; there is doubt that recent advancements like #metoo would have come about if trump had not been elected to office, and there is hope that the latest school shooting will precipitate a similar movement to squash the gun fetishists.

  • TJ the Good

    Then God is a jackass. Screw him.

  • pookdesignz

    This completely over rules any collective responsibility of the people under these leaders – those who campaign; those who voted. Are you implying that God controlled these people’s action to vote? Essentially you are implying we have no “free will” then. Even fascist and dictatorial regimes where voting choice is not an option; where the military’s power trumps the collective powers of their people to choose, is still enacted by, albeit coerced human power – corrupt or otherwise by humans – citizens of whatever state/country. Either way, it isn’t God that puts anyone into power – we do.

  • Bones

    These were the same people who believed volcanoes were caused by an angry god/s.

    Paul was writing during the Roman/Jewish Wars…..He was saying don’t get involved. That was the point.

  • bill wald

    There is no objective test for the existence of free will. If an un-created God exists who is not responsible to a higher authority then God is top dog and decides . . . everything. Can’t have it both ways.

    This universe and earth seems to be a balance of unpredictable good and evil.

  • bill wald

    As Sir Maynard Keynes noted . . . in the long run, we are all dead. I try not to bleed before I am am cut but it is difficult. Anyway, I have a great Guardian Angel.

  • Bones

    If slaughtering dozens of 6 year olds won’t change America, nothing will.

    The same ol arguments are being used until people forget about it and the next one comes along.

    Complete with conspiracy theories of leftist plots.

  • pookdesignz

    Maybe then, we are God.

  • Bones

    So is god playing silly buggers when leaders are deposed through coups and then brought back again?

  • bill wald

    I think the problem is that we use the word, god(s), for any lesser spiritual critter than GOD. We “believe in” good and bad angels who are very powerful and who affect human lives. Jewish people have the same concept I forget the word they use.

    That’s why I think Job is the most honest (?) information available about such things. God and Satan played a game using Job and his friends same as humans play on line computer games.

  • Bones

    And the writer of Job knew this how?

    The book of Job seems to cast everyone else as playthings for the divine. Hey Job’s family – you’re dead..bad luck for you..just so we can prove how faithful Job is.

  • Joslyn Renfrey

    Maybe the NRA might see clearly if more mass shootings happened in NRA facilities and gatherings. Not saying that I advocate for senseless mass killing, but I advocate for people getting whats coming to them.

  • Valentin

    Mr. Corey,

    God chose Saul and God chose David. One was disobedient and one was obedient. This s where freedom of choice plays a role.

    Read 1 Samuel 9

    Stop using the Bible to prop your hostility to Trump and taking advantage of many readers not going the extra mile to check you out.

    The debate about whether Trump is a good president or not is another debate. For people who receive tax bonuses and got jobs because of his MAGA guiding principle of his presidency, he is a good president. For some who have a different agenda like yourself and I do not try to guess what you agenda is he is not a good president. That is why we have elections and we do our best to convince others about a candidate to vote for him. Elections are battles of ideas and world views.

    I am staying focused on your dishonesty


    Respectfully Debbie, Valentin and our daughter Andrea
    Brighton, MI

  • David Cohen

    So why do you vote? If God chooses the winner, your vote counts for nothing.
    And while we’re at it, why did we not hear anything about God choosing leaders when Obama was president? Do the Bible verses you are alluding to only apply when those you like are elected?

  • David Cohen

    Oh yes, and did God choose Hitler, Stalin, Pinochet and Pol Pot? Why would God do that, knowing what they would do once they were in power?

  • Valentin

    David, I replied to a false Biblical argument that Mr. Corey made by using the Bible to support this anti Trump position. He simpley claimed falsely that God gave people what they asked for i.e. a bad king Saul. And my point is based upon the texts in the 1 Samuel that what he said is false:
    1. First of all people asked a King. But they did not tell God “We need Saul” God instructed Samuel to anoint Saul because God knew Saul’s inside and he was a humble men in the beginning. Saul then exercised his free will in disobedience of God’s commandments which led to his destruction. You notice Saul did not have a repentant heart.
    2. God also instructed Samuel to anoint a successor, David – David made both good (when he obeyed God’s commandments) and poor (when he disobeyed God;s commandments) choices. But he repented sincerely in the later case.
    God created people with 1) conscience (moral compass) plus He gave us His commandments that tell us what is good and what is wrong and also created people with 2) freedom of choice to chose informed by their consciences and God’s commandments.
    These 2 attributes of put a heavy responsibility on the individual.
    If people ignore the conscience and persist in choices that contradict God’s moral compass, then God let’s them follow their choices which come also with consequences.
    That is why people who ignored God moral compass voted leaders who led their nations to destruction / oppression. You can’t blame God for giving you free choice, exercising it badly and then blame Him for the consequences. Think about it. You and I are created wonderfully with a moral compass and free will so that God can have a relation based upon love not programmed obedience.
    I come from an oppressive regime in Eastern Europe / Romania and I know first hand what it means when God morality is replaced with man’s morality – oppression follows.
    Ponder about it and do not let political orientations skew your thinking.

  • Bones

    Lol I bet you bitched about Obama.

    Trump was not anointed king. He was voted president.

    You know – like Hitler was voted Chancellor.

    Perhaps you should go and study the difference between the democratic system and royal appointees.

    And lol it was the immoral West which freed Eastern Europe……..

    And anyone with a semblance of a moral compass wouldn’t vote for Trump…his only moral compass is which way his di*k is swinging.

    Ponder about it and do not let political orientations skew your thinking.

  • Valentin

    Hi Bones and Joslyn I could not help interjecting here and mention the 50+ million of babies slaughtered, dismembered, body parts sold by abortion providers supported politically by you know who. Looks like this thread inevitably goes partisan. Republican vs. Democrat. And yes abortion is supported and promoted by the Democratic Party and the Democrat presidents.

  • Bones

    Seems you’ve made this thread partisan.

    Abortion will always be with us.

    Nice try at trying to deflect the issue.

  • David Cohen

    “God chose Saul and God chose David. One was disobedient and one was obedient. This s where freedom of choice plays a role.”
    – And your deity still made this choice, despite knowing what each would do (being divinely omniscient.) Why would your deity deliberately work against its own goals? Is your deity insane?

    “God instructed Samuel to anoint Saul because God knew Saul’s inside and he was a humble men in the beginning.”
    – And your deity just forgot how Saul would turn out as a king? How could anyone respect such a whimsical deity?

    ” If people ignore the conscience and persist in choices that contradict
    God’s moral compass, then God let’s them follow their choices which come
    also with consequences.”
    – So if a dictator assumes control its the fault of the people then? That will be news to the countries who were ruled by dictators propped up by the USA.

    “Ponder about it and do not let political orientations skew your thinking.”
    – You first

  • David Cohen

    That is one easily manipulated deity you revere.

    I couldn’t possibly revere a deity who was so passive and short sighted.

  • Bones

    What conservatives mean when they’re pro-life……


  • Ron McPherson

    Yeah and abortion at an all time low under Obama lol.

  • Joslyn Renfrey

    Looks like someone is a bit miffed that their brain was hijacked by that modern cordyceps. Hows voting for self-admitted sexual predators working out for you?

  • Valentin

    CORRECTION to my response above. Instead of:

    “What’s funny is that your aversion for this president
    is rational because you also benefit from his policies”

    I meant:

    “What’s funny is that your aversion for this president
    is irrational because you also benefit from his policies”

  • Bones

    And you benefited from Obama as well……

  • Bones

    “2. Bones: If you say that abortion
    is always going to be with us, would you also resign yourself that school
    shooting will always be with us and move on? Children before birth and after
    birth, young people old people are all human beings and have a right to live.
    By consistent dude and not use an argument selectively when it is fitting your
    ideology. Abortion victims far outnumber the school shooting victims”

    I live in a country which has 0 school shootings.

    We can see the results of abortion restriction in South America…..They don’t work. Or good ol Romania …..

    In fact they penalise poor women.

    To compare abortion with school shootings is ridiculous.

    But thanks for pointing out that pro-lifers are only interested in children before the they are born.

    After that they can get f***ed.

    “5. Bones: I give credit to Reagan
    and Margret Thatcher for the opening of the Eastern Europe, who found a reasonable
    negotiator in Gorbachev.

    Here is where I stand. Now I am expecting you to be open with me also and,
    instead of keeping questioning my positions and attacking my position, present your
    position and defend it.”

    Lol, no surprise you’d be fans of Thatcher and Reagan.

    Actually the USSR was breaking up, starting with the Baltic States and the Caucasus.

    And it seems you like living under authoritarian governments.

  • Ron McPherson

    I once asked a vehement “pro-lifer” if they would reverse their stance to be in favor of legalizing abortion if they KNEW the outcome by doing so would actually save MORE women and unborn lives , and they still answered “no.” At that point it was apparent that it was the IDEOLOGY that was of more paramount importance to them rather than the actual saving of lives, even those of the unborn.

  • Bones

    It’s funny that a pornstar suing a sitting president isn’t even the strangest or controversial thing about the current presidency.

    But that’s conservatives for ya…..

  • Bones

    Aaaand a wonderful Easter message from the Commander-in Chief……..


    “Border Patrol Agents are not allowed to properly do their job at the Border because of ridiculous liberal (Democrat) laws like Catch & Release. Getting more dangerous. “Caravans” coming. Republicans must go to Nuclear Option to pass tough laws NOW. NO MORE DACA DEAL!”

    “These big flows of people are all trying to take advantage of DACA. They want in on the act!”

    Conservatives love it……..

  • Valentin

    1. Ref abortion and school shootings: I am sorry I was not
    more explicit in my bullet # 2 in previous post. I said this “Children
    before birth and after birth, young people old people are all human beings and
    have a right to live”. I this statement conveys the idea that I am against both
    abortion and school shootings and we need to be morally consistent and work
    together to eliminate both. And the comparison is not ridiculous just because you
    say so. Let’s wrestle with the comparison together. Abortion is a brutal solution
    to unwanted pregnancies. Right? The only unwanted pregnancies that I am aware
    of are rape and incest, which represent, according to Allan Gutmacher (a
    pro-abortion institution) institute only 1%. So let’s not talk about small amount
    but let’s talk about the 99% of the abortions. People want sex and everybody
    knows that unprotected sex comes with a package: babies. Abortion is a barbaric
    solution to sexual irresponsibility. Apply all available birth control methods:
    protected sex, birth control pills (which are cheap, and also abstinence and
    you will not have to kill an unborn baby. But a note hear: since birth control
    is very cheap do not ask others to pay for your desire to have sex without the
    baby consequence. And even if after all this a pregnancy occurs, adoption is a much
    better choice. So I do not think the comparison is ridiculous. If one is
    against school shootings that result in young life loss by the tens, that
    person should also be against the killing of unborn babies by the millions. A
    side note here: sociologist realize that recently America sunk below the
    population sustainability rate of 2.5 births per couple. Families having less
    babies and abortion is a major contributor to this. What this will lead to is a
    nuclear social blast on all the baby boomers retire (a lot of them) and there
    is not enough young population to sustain their social security benefits.

    2. Benefited from Obama – Yes. I said I opposed most
    of his policies not all. The tax cut for the <$250k incomes was a good
    thing. But it was half-backed. He maintained the high very globally uncompetitive
    Corporations tax. Look what a tax cut across the board including Corporations does:
    bonuses to working people starts flowing, multibillion investments in the domestic
    economy that will result in tens of thousands of jobs. The other destructive policies
    of his I was against – I will let you figure out why the majority of people
    rejected his legacy and elected Trump instead of Hillary. Here are a few hints:
    a) He started the insanity in the national discourse on sexuality:
    – Homosexual marriage is a noble institution (his words) and equal to a heterosexual marriage.
    Even if you are not a Cristian you look biologically, medically and socially one
    concludes: homosexual marriage is bad and heterosexual monogamous marriage is
    good: all cultures across the ages concluded this and promoted heterosexual
    marriages and discouraged, condemned, (various degrees of opposition) homosexuality.
    From an atheistic evolutionary (though I do not support it and science does not
    support this worldview) viewpoint, homosexuality is an evolutionary dead end.
    – Gender fluidity, LGBTQXYZ…..bathroom rules – boy enters girls bathroom and vice versa .
    This is nuts
    – And on top of that enforced this crazy ideas using the suing power of the government
    on organizations that did not agree with his crazy viewpoints on sexuality
    b) He weaponized IRS against conservative organizations– no other president has done this before republican or democrat
    c) His appeasement policy in the Middle East gave rise
    to the radical Islamism, ISIS barbarianism. Look at ISIS dying on the vine when
    an administration that meets barbarianism with the only tool that works – brutal
    military force. You do not negotiate with barbarians.
    d) Strangulated the economy with crazy regulations:
    the economy should have roared after the deep in 2008, but instead economists say
    this was one the most tepid recoveries. That is because the brakes of
    regulations were slammed by Obama.

    3. Stormy Daniels – that happened 12 years ago.
    Right? I am judging a president by his current life not a past one. He claims
    he changed. I am giving him a chance and I am forgiving. You should too as the
    left gave Clinton a pass while he was perpetrated sexual harassment in the office.

    The leftist Christians (fortunately a minority) who
    criticize Trump for his past should also criticize apostle Paul for his terrorist
    criminal past against the church and should rip his epistles from the Bible.
    But we Christians understand that people are transformed and practice
    forgiveness of the past.

    You make me write a lot but I am not looking for winning
    arguments but have a constructive dialogue and I am still waiting for your worldview
    presentation. You attacked a lot of my positions but you did not lay out yet as
    I kindly requested a worldview.

    If you want to win elections you have to present convincing
    non-contradictory positions. Not like:
    1. I am ok with killing unborn babies by the
    millions and I am very outraged by school shootings

    2. I am hostile to a president because of his private
    life years back while not holding any political office, while I give a pass to
    presidents who were immoral in the office and even if they themselves did not
    have sexual escapades in the office e, imposed immoral, better said insane
    sexual policies on the nation.

    3. Presenting arguments against the president to working
    people who benefit from his policies. This is not going to be very convincing.

    In the meantime I promise that we Christian will continue to
    apply a sharp distinction between the standards for church elections and the political
    elections, electing the better of the candidates and sometimes the lesser evil in
    the later with the goal of promoting good and stopping a greater evil in the society.

  • Bones

    1. Why do women have abortions?

    * Birth control (contraceptive) failure. Over half of all women who have an abortion used a contraceptive method during the month they became pregnant.2
    * Inability to support or care for a child.
    * To end an unwanted pregnancy.
    * To prevent the birth of a child with birth defects or severe medical problems. Such defects are often unknown until routine second-trimester tests are done.
    * Pregnancy resulting from rape or incest.
    * Physical or mental conditions that endanger the woman’s health if the pregnancy is continued.

    You ain’t interested in that though.

    And no you aren’t interested in women who have to raise children alone or have no way of supporting them.

    You’re only interested in yourself.

    2) You benefited because Obama’s policies when he first arrived helped stop an even worse recession.

    As for
    a) homosexuality

    It’s in every western country and Trump ain’t touching it.

    Get over your hatred of gays. Most others have.

    b) That’s right wing bs. IRS also went after progressive organisations as as well

    Proof the IRS Didn’t Target Just Conservatives
    Almost one third of the tax-exemption applications selected for additional scrutiny by the IRS were from groups that were not conservative.


    c) BS. The crisis in Syria is a proxy war between Iran and Saudi Arabia as well as being the result of Bush’s disastrous invasion of Iraq. That’s your mates in Saudi Arabia doing that. Financing Al Qaeda and ISIS through charities and embassies until the Obama Administration started wielding the stick. You know the ones Trump just gave hundreds of billions of dollars in weapons.

    d) These were the regulations after the insanity of the Wall Street crash.

    Yeah funny that.

    3. Stormy Daniels is not going away. She’s suing Trump for a reason. Lol at the way conservatives dismiss Trump’s immoral behaviour.

    And its the hypocritical moralising clowns like yourself who bitch about gay people and everyone else’s morals while voting for an idiot whose moral compass is his penis.

    Lol Trump is no Paul…..what an absolute idiot you are….

    You’re right about not winning because you’ve made yourself look like a complete and utter d**k.

    Trump has shown you can win elections by holding all sorts of contradictory positions even in a week.

    You morons would still vote for him.

    1) You don’t give a shit abortions or young people getting shot.

    2) Trump is immoral. And paid women to shut up while he was campaigning. So moralisers like you would vote for him.

    3) Working people haven’t benefited from Trump’s policies which are still in an early stage eg a trade war with China.

    You Christians have shown yourself to sell your soul to anyone who tickles your ears and your base hatreds.

    You sold Jesus out.

    But we all knew people like you would. especially over 30 pieces of silver or the hypocrisy of your own (im) morality.

    Because that’s what you’ve done in the past.

    Well done.

    Oh and stop getting your propaganda from Fox.

  • Ron McPherson

    I can live with people voting for Trump. What’s hard to stomach, however, are right-wing Christians trying to still defend this man over a year after he took office, while still harping on Obama, who was miles ahead of Trump if both are graded against Jesus’ kingdom principles.

    Was Obama perfect? Of course not. But for professing Christians to trash him while simultaneously lauding Trump and his policies is sickening to its core. I will say this though. Much of Trump aligns with the conservative evangelical platform, which sadly says a lot.

  • David Cohen

    “Do not shift the blame from people to the “deity”.”

    – There seems to be little point in doing that. When it comes to obtaining political power, the deity and all it has to say is irrelevant to modern Christian fundamentalists. You admitted this when you wrote “They know they elect a commander in Chief not a pastor in chief.” In other words, values can be ignored for certain leaders. The only question remaining (aside from how you can not see your own hypocrisy) is which leaders are expected to have values and which ones can be given a free pass.

    Again, I am assuming the difference is whether or not the leader in question can garner Christian leaders more political power.

    Oh yes, one more thing, if you can ignore your deity when it is expedient to do so, why can’t the rest of us?

  • Bones

    Actually I remember conservatives going absolutely nuts about Clinton’s lack of morality.

    Lol….conservatives who preach morality and hatred of gay people, swarm all over Trump to defend his lack of morality.

    It shows how hypocritical you are. All of a sudden Trump’s morality doesn’t matter.

    Oh and an immigrant no less…..

    Stop watching Fox News. The IRS targeted political lobbies on BOTH conservative and progressive sides (Oh yeah you won’t hear that on Fox News)….

    And yes, you hate gay people.

    Btw your messiah Trump said he’s not changing gay marriage laws.

  • David Cohen

    Thank you for confirming the essential moral relativism of Christian fundamentalism. You did so with your statement that “The church sphere has its own criteria for leadership election.” The fact that you can be flexible on morality when it comes to attaining power is blatantly obvious to everyone outside of your tribe, of course, but to hear one of your number acknowledge it is a refreshing change,

    For the record, the issue for me is not Trump’s unrepentant adultery. I wonder if you are familiar with the concept of “repentance.” Nothing you have written so far suggests such a thing. You just seem to assume that political conservatives are forgiven because…reasons.

    Personally, I am not concerned about Trump’s lechery. Many presidents, liberal and conservative, are known to have had affairs. That did not, in and of itself, make them bad presidents. However, I can truthfully say that if Obama or Clinton had been under an indictment for fraud, I would not have voted for them. If Clinton or Obama had mocked a disabled reporter or encouraged violence against dissenters at their rallies, I would not have voted for them. And yet these, and other deal-breakers for me, were cheerfully ignored by Christian fundamentalists when it came to Trump because, as you pointed out, the Christian sense of morality is infinitely flexible when it comes to seizing political power.

    As modern Christians are wont, your response in your previous post was to disguise the weakness of your position with “whataboutism.” Bones has already pointed out the fallacy of some of your points (i.e. it was not, exclusively, conservative groups who were targeted by the IRS under Obama.) And as for the progress made by the LGBT community, the issue of same sex marriage was argued before a conservative court. Your side lost because they could not imagine that “I think its icky” and “my deity thinks its icky” were not convincing legal arguments. As a side note, Trump tried his best to appeal to the LGBT community by assuring them that he would not restrict their rights as president, but apparently he can be forgiven for that because…reasons.

    And so, as you grab your crucifix and flee from this conversation, let me point out one more thing. Churches are closing all over the USA. Fewer and fewer people, particularly young people, are identifying as Christians. All available evidence reveals that people are turning away from your Christ. According to research, the number one reason for this is that people consider your church to be a bastion of hypocrisy and arbitrary intolerance.

    In spite of this, you and your fellow fundamentalist appear be patting yourselves on the back because of your political accomplishments. There was a time when Christianity defined success as leading people to Christ. Now it appears to define success as grabbing political power. Its is laughable how the irony is lost on you.

  • Bones

    This was easy to find….Trump exposes the hypocrisy of conservatives…..

    Hypocritical conservative evangelicals shelter themselves from Stormygate

    Back in the ’90s, when Bill Clinton was sexually sinning, conservative evangelicals fulminated with outrage and insisted that a president’s most important trait was moral character. Funny how they don’t talk that way anymore. I wonder what’s changed.

    It was a tad sickening this week — but not surprising, of course — to hear Tony Perkins’ assessment of the Stormy Daniels brouhaha. The president of the Family Research Council, the evangelical activist group and self-appointed guardian of the nation’s morals, shrugs off the news, broken by The Wall Street Journal, that Donald Trump trysted in extramarital fashion with a porn star who was paid off to keep quiet on the eve of the ’16 election. Heck, he shrugs off all the evidence of Trump’s Bible-breaching behavior.

    In Perkins’ inimitable words, referring to himself and his evangelical brethren, “We kind of gave him — ‘All right, you get a mulligan. You get a do-over here.’”

    The word hypocrisy doesn’t begin to describe people who have forfeited moral authority and proved to be as fraudulent as the president they deify. There’s no other way to explain someone like the Rev. Franklin Graham, who said last weekend that he loves Trump because this president has “a concern about Christian values.”

    This is the same Franklin Graham who contended, during the Monica Lewinsky scandal of 1998, that character counts, that a president’s private behavior can’t be separated from his public behavior. He wrote that if a president “will lie to or mislead his wife, those with whom he is most intimate, what will prevent him from doing the same to the American public?”

    Graham had plenty of company that year. They were all in high dudgeon. At the ’98 Christian Coalition convention, which I covered as a political reporter, evangelical leader Gary Bauer said this about Clinton: “I walk around my home with the TV remote in my hand for fear that [my children] will come in the room when a story about the president comes on. [Thanks to Clinton] our kids have been taught that fidelity is old-fashioned, that adultery is the norm. This [sex scandal] is the equivalent of a cultural oil spill.” And Christian Coalition director Randy Tate chimed in, “We have to be a nation that expects the highest from our public officials.”

    But not anymore. These people have converted to Trumpism. In the words of columnist Michael Gerson, a principled conservative, “The priests have become acolytes … The gag reflex is entirely gone.”

    They’ve become just another special interest group in the partisan tribe. They’ve shelved their morals to serve a president of abysmally low character, in exchange for his ideological favors — most notably, judicial curbs on the rights of people who aren’t white, male, or straight. Their Faustian pact with Trump troubles and infuriates millions of Americans, including mainstream Christians who try to live their moral principles without craven political calculation.

    I can attest that this fury is widespread. Yesterday, I tweeted something about evangelical hypocrisy, and, at last check, it has been retweeted or favorited more than 49,000 times. Don’t believe me? Look it up.

    What I posted was purely hypothetical. Just imagine that The Wall Street Journal had outed Barack Obama for sleeping with a porn star prior to his presidency, and imagine that The Journal had unearthed a $130,000 hush payment arranged by Obama’s personal lawyer on the eve of his election, courtesy of a Delaware LLC set up for that purpose. And just imagine (I didn’t have room in the tweet for this) that Obama had done the dirty deed, and been spanked with a magazine, while his wife was home with his newborn baby; and just imagine that this baby was his fifth with three wives. How do we suppose conservative evangelicals would have reacted?

    Easy: They would’ve preached that Character Counts. They would’ve stormed their pulpits in high dudgeon. They would’ve demanded impeachment. Or perhaps marched on Washington with tiki torches. Or perhaps they would’ve spontaneously combusted.

    Rest assured, there would’ve been no “mulligan” for Obama. But, for Trump, there’s all kinds of doctrinal flex. For Trump, evangelicals like Tony Perkins are so darn willing to forgive. Perkins says: “We see right and wrong. We see good and evil, but also among evangelicals, there’s an understanding that we are all fallen, and the idea of forgiveness is very prominent … There is mercy.”

    How convenient! We’re getting the same riff Jerry Falwell Jr., son of the Moral Majority movement founder, who calls Trump “a dream president.” We’re getting the same riff from James Dobson, ex-leader of Focus on the Family, who has asked Christians to pray and fast for Trump. This is the same guy who lectured in the ’90s about the “profound moral crisis” of low presidential character.

    Ah yes, the Clintonian ’90s. That’s when Gary Bauer — Perkins’ predecessor at the Family Research Council — lectured one and all about the imperatives of presidential virtue: “Character counts — in a people, in the institutions of our society, and in our national leadership.”

    But when moral piety is selectively applied and selectively ignored, does it still have value? Or have the evangelicals’ vaunted principles become as worthless as a ’90s videocassette?


  • Valentin

    Bones, David
    I am making a last brief attempt to clarify the matters hopefully you will understand the differences:
    1. Did Trump sexually harassed, cheat sexually while in public office – No – He did it over 12 years ago as a private person
    2. Did Clinton do it while in public office: Yes
    3. Did Trump bully people using the power of the government into following the crazy sexual guidelines that Obama established – No
    4. Did Obama start the insane discourse on sexuality in this nation and used the power of government to bully people and organizations into submission to that craziness – Yes
    5. After 1 year of investigation has any shred of evidence found that Trump colluded with Russia to influence the election – No
    4. Did Hilary colluded with Russia and GPS Fusion to discredit Trump so that he losses the election creating a false dossier and using it to obtain a FISA approval for FBI to spy on Trump and undermine his candidacy – Yes
    5. Who was president when supposedly Russia influenced the election in 2016 – Obama – FBI should focus on him what he did to prevent this
    Note the emphasis above to make it clear for you what the differences are.
    This is simple – that is why many Christians and the nation in general supports Trump.
    I promise you – this is my last post on this topic. We can continue chatting on different topics.
    Stop using this type of arguments – you are not going to win minds and elections this way. They do not make sense..

  • Bones

    Lol, still trying to justify your own hypocrisy……

    Your duplicity and hypocrisy is overwhelming to all who see it, no matter how much you try to justify it.

    “If, hypothetically, the WSJournal had outed Prez Obama for screwing a porn star and had unearthed a $130,000 hush payment; and if, hypothetically, it turned out that his ’08 campaign had been involved in the payment…how do you suppose white evangelicals would’ve reacted?”

    But that’s conservatives for ya.

    Dishonest and hypocritical to the core.

    No wonder they killed Jesus.

    And Fox isn’t news……

  • David Cohen

    1&2 As I pointed out, Neither Trumps not Clinton’s affairs are of importance to me. Since you insist on comparing the two, I can say this much about them: they both show no signs of repentance. When the current occupant of the White House stands before your deity, will your deity give him a pass when he says “That was years ago, when I was a private person and not the president!” Your theology says that your deity will not be impressed, but as a real, true Christian you seem to think that you can ignore what your deity commands.

    3. So we can ignore Trump’s ridiculing of a disabled reporter, the misogyny he displayed and his encouraging of violence at his rallies, all while he was campaigning for president, because in your mind “crazy sexual guidelines” are all that matter. I wonder if your deity would feel the same way. Oh wait, you have already admitted that your deity is a non-issue when it comes to the politicians you like.

    4. Discussions of LGBT equality have been going on since the 70’s (well before Obama was elected.) If you do not like where our country is headed on this issue, put together a valid legal case. Gotta warn you though: your conservative Christian ancestors from the 50’s and 60’s tried to use religion to build a case to deny civil rights to their neighbors. It didn’t work.

    5. Given the obstruction which the president and congress are putting up, it is understanding that the evidence which has been revealed is minimal: not enough for and indictment but enough to continue investigation. You appear to be unconcerned as to why the Republicans are obstructing the investigation, but then we have determined that in your mind political conservatives get a free pass on all they do.

    4. And here your hypocrisy comes to the front. You whine that Trump has been investigated for a whole year and since they have not indicted him the charges must be bogus. Mrs. Clinton was investigated for over a decade by a conservative congress and there was no indictment. And yet, in your mind she seems to have been convicted already.

    5. So if someone breaks into your house and steals your stuff, should the police investigate you for not having a sufficient security system? This isn’t an argument on your part. It is a blatant flailing act of desperation.

    “This is simple – that is why many Christians and the nation in general supports Trump.”
    – And this is why people are abandoning your religion in droves. While the folks in your tribe praise worldly powers, the folks outside of your tribe see how readily you have cast off the virtues you claim to be important for the sake of power. You may call yourselves ‘Christians’ but in your quest for worldly power you have sold your souls to the enemy of Christianity.

  • Thanks for this post. It is an objective clarification of the liberal bias that poses as fact.
    The irony here is that while Conservatives had to wake up and deal with Obama for eight years – we did.
    Liberals believe they have the right to end the Trump Presidency because they can’t deal with it.

  • You completely misunderstand how God works.
    Yes God chooses those who govern us including Obama.
    We may have a different opinion on why that was.

  • Your lack of understanding is consistent with your views -not much there but self serving opinion.

  • David Cohen

    Time to step outside of your bubble and learn something other than “alternative facts” (i.e. neo-con lies)


  • David Cohen

    Yeah, yeah, we know, you and your church have the perfect dope on God’s will, unlike all those false churches, populated entirely by fools and/or heretics.

    Like we haven’t heard THAT constantly over the past 2,000 years

  • David Cohen

    Apparently you can’t answer the questions either.

    But hey, if accepting that you don’t have all the answers is just too scary for you, I guess being smugly dismissive is the best you can do

  • Impeach 45, Impeach 45…

  • I didn’t know you were that old?

  • What is the question?

  • David Cohen

    And that makes your lie about how conservatives reacted to Obama true…how exactly?

  • David Cohen

    Not quite, though I feel it somedays.

    For those events which were before my time, there is the academic discipline of history. Yes, I know that religious nuts have no use for education, but it has served me well.

  • David Cohen

    Here are four questions, quoted form the comment you were responding too (but apparently were too lazy to actually read):

    And your deity still made this choice, despite knowing what each would do
    (being divinely omniscient.) Why would your deity deliberately work
    against its own goals? Is your deity insane?

    And your deity just forgot how Saul would turn out as a king? How could anyone respect such a whimsical deity?

    So if a dictator assumes control its the fault of the people then?

  • My lie?

  • If religious nuts have no use for education then how did they learn to write?

  • Your article was pathetic and really not worth the read.
    My deity is your deity unless you are another atheist?
    The principle is that God gives us the leaders we deserve.
    if you would have read Valentin’s posts you would already have those answers.

  • David Cohen

    Here is the lie: “…Conservatives had to wake up and deal with Obama for eight years – we did.”

    Conservative Rush Limbaugh got the ball rolling when he declared, “I hope Obama fails.” His followers embraced this message, not considering what the failure of a US president would have on a nation. Thus we had the birther nonsense, neo-cons lynching or burning Obama in effigy (I can share pics), and the calls for impeachment which you are dishonestly pretending did not exist (or else are ignorant of, and therefore unqualified to be discussing this topic.)

    Jesus speaks in the Gospels about about removing the plank in your eye before concerning yourself with the mote in your neighbor’s eye. Yes, I realize that the quote comes form the Gospels, the part of the Bible which religious nuts scrupulously avoid except on Easter and Christmas. Even so, you might want to read it anyway. You just might learn something.

  • David Cohen

    “education is not filling a vessel, but kindling a fire”
    – a quote attributed to Socrates

    I don;t think you can appreciate it, but I figured I’d offer it anyway

  • David Cohen

    “Your article was pathetic and really not worth the read.”
    – And there’s that smug dismissal I noted earlier, the one you pull out when a question is asked which is too scary for you to try and answer,

    “My deity is your deity unless you are another atheist?”
    – That is what all theists say. What makes your claims any more credible than those of the Muslims, the Hindus or the Roman pagans?

    “The principle is that God gives us the leaders we deserve.”
    – And again I say, that’s going to be news to the people living under the brutal dictatorships propped up by the USA. Or do they not matter because they live in what your messiah called ‘sh!thole nations?”

    “if you would have read Valentin’s posts you would already have those answers.”
    – I did read Valentin’s posts. They were a collection of spurious, ad hoc rubbish, perfect for those who are already inside your bubble ut pointless for those of us who know better.

  • Speaking of smug dismissals just read your post. You have no perspective and no real thought processes.
    Valentin said, Stop using the Bible to prop your hostility to Trump. She was correct.

  • Impeach 45! Impeach 45! This from the idiot Maxine Waters. Oh, I meant low I.Q.

    Rep. Al Green (D-Texas) called for President Trump to be impeached from the House floor on Wednesday morning, accusing the president of obstruction of justice.

    “I rise today with a sense of responsibility and duty to the people who have elected me, a sense of duty to this country, a sense of duty to the Constitution of the United States of America,” he began. “I rise today, Mr. Speaker, to call for the impeachment of the President of the United States of America for obstruction of justice.”

  • You quote Socrates as if this point covers the conversation. It doesn’t.

  • David Cohen

    And, again, how does that make your lie about how conservatives reacted to the election of Obama true?

  • David Cohen

    I offered that quote to explain that you have no idea what the word “education” really means. Your impulse to defend your lie about how American conservatives reacted to the election of Obama with a series of “whatabouts” illustrates the point much better than I could have though.

  • David Cohen

    “Speaking of smug dismissals just read your post.”
    – Ah, so smug dismissal is okay when real true Christians do it, but not anyone else. Another example of the kind of moral relativism which Valentin displayed. Indeed, the kind of moral relativism which everyone in your tribe displayed when they declared a lying, philandering, indicted fraudster as their leader. Its always refreshing to hear you expound on your hypocrisy.

    “You have no perspective and no real thought processes.”
    – Your opinion has been noted.

    “Valentin said, Stop using the Bible to prop your hostility to Trump. She was correct. ”
    – So we have reached the point where real, true Christians are willing to throw out the Bible in their desperate demand for political power. Well, it had to happen sooner or later. Keep pushing your tribe into irrelevancy Bob.

  • Bones

    Bob spent 8 years raging against Obama.

    He’s still looking for his birth certificate.

  • You are tilting at windmills.

  • David Cohen

    Once again, your opinion has been noted.

    And as you throw out your opinions on the internet, your churches continue to empty, the number of people who identify as Christian shrinks every year while the number of people who deny any religious affiliation continues to grow. The word “evangelist” is rapidly becoming a byword for derangement, in the same way “televangelist” has long been a byword for greed and hypocrisy. You and yours tell yourself that it is the fault of the liberals, immigrants, intellectuals or anyone else you can blame, never considering that your religion has dropped to its knees and delivered the kiss of shame en masse in exchange for worldly power.

  • You are not very disciplined in your thought.
    I am simply responding to a post on a Progressive Christian website that I agreed with. You are the outlier here not me.

    “Dec 19, 2017 – In the last 100 years, the number of Christians in the world has quadrupled from about 600 million in 1910 to more than 2 billion presently. Today, Christianity is the world’s largest religious group. According to the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life, in 2010, there were 2.18 billion Christians of all ages …”
    Translation for the bitter and weak minded souls who deny God: Christians are not in jeopardy of going away anytime soon.
    Liberal thought destroys everything it touches: education, family life, government and religion – but you will not win! In fact with Trump the decline has been arrested.

  • David Cohen

    “You are not very disciplined in your thought.”
    – You still haven’t grasped the difference between an opinion and a fact, have you?

    “I am simply responding to a post on a Progressive Christian website that I agreed with. You are the outlier here not me.”
    – And here’s some data for you


    “Translation for the bitter and weak minded souls who deny God: Christians are not in jeopardy of going away anytime soon.”
    – Yes, Christianity is thriving in Latin American and Africa. I have been talking about this nation though, the one which thinks the current occupant of the White House is a great representative of their cause.

    “Liberal thought destroys everything it touches: education, family life,
    government and religion”
    – Remember that the next time you are enjoying a weekend

    “- but you will not win! In fact with Trump the decline has been arrested.”
    – You really need to step out of your bubble and listen to something besides ‘alternative facts’ (i.e. neo-con lies)

  • False comparison. Muddy thinking. Rich morons who play a game for our entertainment and are 1000 times over compensated have no room to disgrace our flag with their petty protests.

  • And moronic liberals are responsible for the said state of division in this country, the ruin of our education and health care system…

  • No it’s about incompetence vs competence and those who have the guts to call out Obama for his failures and not cower because of the liberal race card idiocy.

  • Bones

    In other words you can’t defend your own hypocritical worldview.

    We know that.

    It is a black thing with you isn’t it?

    That’s why you think blacks are dumb.

  • Rather I know you are mentally challenged in so many ways….

  • Matthew

    Is No Child Left Behind really working?

  • “It was replaced , President Obama signed the Every Student Succeeds Act into law…”

    “The new law builds on key areas of progress in recent years, made possible by the efforts of educators, communities, parents, and students across the country.

    For example, today, high school graduation rates are at all-time highs. Dropout rates are at historic lows. And more students are going to college than ever before. These achievements provide a firm foundation for further work to expand educational opportunity and improve student outcomes under ESSA.

    The previous version of the law, the No Child Left Behind (NCLB) Act, was enacted in 2002. NCLB represented a significant step forward for our nation’s children in many respects, particularly as it shined a light on where students were making progress and where they needed additional support, regardless of race, income, zip code, disability, home language, or background. The law was scheduled for revision in 2007, and, over time, NCLB’s prescriptive requirements became increasingly unworkable for schools and educators. Recognizing this fact, in 2010, the Obama administration joined a call from educators and families to create a better law that focused on the clear goal of fully preparing all students for success in college and careers.”

    Your point has been deflected…

  • Rasil

    I do believe that the Most High picked #45 in order to fulfill prophecies. Babylon is prophesied to fall. #45 is a player.

  • Rasil

    You are obviously lost. #45 has been prophesied and will be instrumental in Babylon’s fall. It must occur whether you believe or not and YOU are doomed.

  • Rasil

    You define yourself as Christian? Quoting scripture means nothing when one does not live a Christian life. Today’s 21st Century Christians do not and are shaming the kingdom. No spiritual fruit whatsoever, just baskets of religious nuts, under deception and pretense. Shameful.

  • Rasil

    Seek the answer in prayer. Babylon is falling so wake up.

  • David Cohen

    Wow, like we’ve never heard that in the past 2,000 years

  • Matthew

    Public education in America is failing … whatever bill you want to cite …

  • I was trying to respond to your question. I did.
    Now you reply about the state of education in general.
    Public education has been compromised for some time by Liberal Policies. Discipline was removed along with God and the result is plain to see – our children are lost…

  • Bones

    Poor Bob’s racism has been found out,,,,,,

    We still remember that you think blacks are dumb, bob…

    and then you wonder why they don’t vote Republican.

    It’s because of racists like you.

    Have you found Obama’s birth certificate yet?

  • Bones

    Bob certainly is.

    Sold their souls for 30 pieces of silver…

    actually not even that much…..

  • Bones

    Babylon is Imperial Rome…ffs grow up.

  • Bones
  • Rasil

    It also includes Great Britain and North America. Try disappearing from this planet with haste. The world would definitely be a much BETTER place.

  • Bones

    Ummmm no……….Imperial Rome hasn’t existed for some 1500 years.

    Have you ever thought how stupid people have been not to have your insight???….eg no one had any knowledge of the Americas and Britain in the first century CE.

  • John C Holbert

    I am forever chagrined at what happens to these so-called discussions in response to an article that attempted to read a biblical story in the light of events of our time. How soon they devolve into shouting bytes of partisan and generally hateful and cruel commentary across the social divide. This is not discussion, my friends; it is demagoguery that can lead us nowhere. I would question Dr. Corey’s reading of the story of Saul and find therein not a statement against those who would pooh-pooh the belief that God chose Trump but not Hitler, but rather a statement against religious fanatics–too much like the supposedly holy Samuel–who would denigrate leaders due to personal/political bias. In short, whatever one thinks of Trump, those hardened religious types who enjoy propping him up, are to me far more dangerous in the long run than he is. And that is saying something about danger! I welcome Dr. Corey’s interesting reading, and though I read quite differently, applaud his attempt to take the Bible seriously and with real relevance for our day. Please stop hurling words like “heretic”at those with whom you do not agree. Just politely say you hear it differently. Differences are what make us human.

  • Everett Kier Jr

    Don’t you ever get tired of being mad? In general and at God specifically?

  • Mr. James Parson

    Did the Caravan ever make it? Or is it still coming

  • Yep arrived and the children were incarcerated and the parents sent packing. Now Trump wants to keep the children longer, cause he’s such a family guy.

  • Although there are strong parallels to White American evangelicalism, which has thoroughly prostrated itself before the idols of consumerism and libertarian capitalism. She shares the bed of Babylon and has gone a whoring! Almost sounds prophetic!

  • Bones

    Thats the thing. It can be applied to any whoring group.

  • Timothy Weston

    The most common phrase in the book of Judges has to do with the anarchy based on the lack of a king. Israel was a clan-based society and it was clear that not even God was king. In 1 Sam 8, God takes credit for being king even though the only times He acted was once every few years when the cries were loud enough, raise a judge, the judge does their work, then God neglects His people again and repeat the cycle. The lack of a king meant no national unity among the clans, no spokesman for diplomacy, and people open for exploitation and conquest. God seemed to be caught off-guard by the request when He had been neglecting them for so long.

  • andHarry

    In the time we are in, with the affirming of Jerusalem as the capital of Israel, and the imminent rebuilding of the Temple, we can look for the world dictator who will feature in the endtime scenario leading to Christ’s return to set up the Millennial Reign. Trump seems to be eminently qualified for the role. Time will tell.

    See: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Daniel+8%3A23-27&version=TLB

    Many translations emphasize his physiognomy; his stern, fierce, angry, etc. face.

  • jcarpenter

    When my fundy friends bring up the Trump-as-Cyrus analogy, to bring back something(or another), to make something great (again), I read earlier in Daniel about the magnificently crazy King Nebuchadnezzar, and suggest DT fits better with him.

  • EllenHar

    This is excellent. However, the Trump Christians also believe that he is a current day “King Cyrus,” the secular king who allowed the Jews to return to their homeland after the Babylonian exile. Could you write about that one too?

  • Chris Knipp

    Barack Hussein Obama is a better example of God allowing the people to have what they want to discipline them. He was very arrogant and abused his power often and our nation suffered greatly under his leadership. Our nation is actually doing quite well under Donald John Trump’s leadership. God allowed both leaders. Scripture plainly says all authority is from God. I prayed for both leaders and will continue to do so. The righteous have a responsibility to pray for those in authority.

  • Arnold Gill

    I actually feel that Little Donnie is far better represented by the AntiChrist stories in the Bible, including all the believers that were misled by him and his Prophet.

  • Martha Pearce-Smith

    So, you are saying that President Obama was “uppity”…. that says a lot…..about you.

  • Naked Eye

    Barack Obama admitted within an interview, after being awarded GQ man of the year for 2015 he and his administration was arrogant within the early years of his presidency in assuming that if they understood their public policy that they never had to present or sell it to the public, as it was for the greater good. He learned of this ill-understood error and attempted to correct it throughout the rest of his terms. Being able to admit a mistake publicly and try to correct it goes against the overall concept of arrogance. How do you believe he was arrogant? Why do you believe he abused his power? Do you believe that Trump isn’t also abusing power? In fact could we not say that every new president and Congress “abuses” the power because they wield it and have their own agendas? Perhaps if their ideas are not similar to those one would want, it is incorrectly called abuse; but should be called decisions you aren’t happy/fond/agreeable with? Perhaps the concept of learning a job they never conducted isn’t so much arrogance as a learning cycle.

  • TheMick

    But, Kanye is a wonderful black man because he loves Trump, right? You’re an easy read.

  • TheMick

    Care to back that up accusation? Where is he mad at God? Sounds to me like he hit a raw nerve with you and your insecurity kicked in.

  • TheMick

    Hypocrisy, hate, blind bias, and willful ignorance. The devil loves you so much.

  • David Cohen

    “Barack Hussein Obama is a better example of God allowing the people to
    have what they want to discipline them. He was very arrogant and abused
    his power often and our nation suffered greatly under his leadership.”

    – Yes, remember those times Obama urged his followers to ‘rough up’ his detractors at his rallies?
    Oh wait, that was your man.

  • David Cohen

    “Scripture plainly says all authority is from God.”

    – So, your God is on the same side as the Ku Klux Klan?

    Sorry, but as a rational person, I cannot approve of you or your god.

  • If you are referring to my comment about Maxine – she should be censored by the House for calling for violence.

    If it is about Green all I did was quote him.

    Try to back up your invective with some detail. Otherwise all I can say is you do not understand the bible especially the part about Satan.

  • TheMick

    You say all sorts of things. They all seem to be filled with hate, hypocrisy, blind bias, excuses, and pretty much everything other than goodness, honesty, or accountability. I know the Bible well enough to know which of those things were loved by Satan and which were cherished by Jesus.

  • You have no clear understanding of the Plan of God for man. This site is for discussion of the issues presented. The reason you find my comments offensive is because of your Liberal bias. Trying to add Jesus to support your judgment is futile.

  • TheMick

    Ah, so you’re just a pompous ass. Wish I’d known that before I kicked your feed trough.

  • Don’t waste my time. “Liberalism is a Mental Disorder” and you have it bad.

  • sheckyshabaz

    My thoughts are you’re an idiot if you think he wanted Hillary. Trump was prophesied long ago, but you dont know hebrew or Greek so I wouldn’t expect you to understand

  • Ocelot Aardvark

    Prophesied as the Beast!

    The Obscene-Orange-Idol is utterly LAWLESS and CORRUPT.

    • TЯ卐m₽ is the Lawless One as described in: – 2 Thessalonians 2:9-12.
    • TЯ卐m₽ is the Abomination of Desolation: – Matthew 24:15-31, Daniel 12:9-13
    • TЯ卐m₽ is the Beast! – Revelation 13:1-9, Daniel 7:25

  • Ocelot Aardvark

    Except the Jews have already “returned to their homeland” without any help from TЯ卐m₽.

    I realize that this article was written more than a year ago. Since then however, TЯ卐m₽ has bragged about being the “Second Coming,” the “King of Israel” and the “Chosen One.”


    How blasphemous can today’s Harlot of Babylon, fake-christians be? Blatantly worshiping their Vile-Orange-Idol, while leading others astray with false teachings. It’s written in their own Holy Book that the Beast will speak “great things” and “blasphemies”. – Revelation 13 and Daniel 7.

  • Ocelot Aardvark

    Oh, like TЯ卐m₽ TOADS have any “understanding”. All his MAGATs understand is hatred, fear, deceit and a depraved disregard for human life and God’s Creation.

    It’s now more than a year since you commented. You have seen, in that time, the utter unrepentant lawlessness, corruption, extortion, vindictiveness and treason of your

    May I ask, when you hear TЯ卐m₽ speak or Tweet, do you hear the voice of our
    Good Shepherd? If not, then why are you still following the Beast?

  • I have seen your comments on other sites this last year. A lot has happened since then and you have not recognized it. That is because the God of this World, Satan the Devil, has blinded you. Whiile you constantly criticize others trying to use the bible for support, you neglect looking at your self. This has resulted in your anger at people and policies you do not understand.

  • Notice that what i said two years ago has come true and on full display. The democrat party has completely melted down, fractured into camps and lost the next election before it really started.

  • David Cohen

    In two years the man you insist was sent by your deity has shown unprecedented corruption and incompetence. The long predicted impeachment is coming to pass. His party has proven to be unable to mount a defense for his actions so they have been relentlessly attacking the process. Despite not having a defense for their man, it is certain that they will vote against his removal because they will put party over country.

    Apparently you did not take my advice and step outside your bubble during the past two years. To be fair, I knew you would not.

  • God appoints our rulers as He pleases; does not say they will be perfect or even good; in fact quite the opposite. He also selects the leaders the people deserve. Their is a message for you there and your Leftist ilk. You got what you deserve because you are part of the Lawless generation who inhabit these sites.

  • Trump no corruption; Obama the most corrupt ever – Crossfire Hurricane.Did you miss the Horowitz report – you have to read it not just Mr. Horowitz’s conclusions which are not germaine to the crimes exposed. Listening to CNN, MSNBC, ABC, CBS is futile. Fox News is the number One cable news network years running now. “Fox News Channel attracted more prime-time viewers than CNN and MSNBC combined…” The FBI falsified their FISA request using Carter Page to spy on candidate Trump and then President Trump. If you think this is over you haven’t heard what Attorny General Barr is going to do. Barr has the authority and Congress cannot stop him.

  • Impeachment? Hardly. A clown show of the most partisan nature. Somehow the Impeachment is missing al three gotta haves per Pelosi and Shiff and Nadler: An Impeachable Crime, Bipartisan support and overwhelming Public support. Where are these three requirements? The Senate will have thier trial and the Congress will be shamed. Apparently you did not listen as Congress proposed and forgot: Quid pro Quo, Bribery, Extortion and Campaign Finance violation. The settled on Abuse of Power without specifying a crime. This is how lame the Articles are.

    Bubble – you must be in a submarine.

  • David Cohen

    And there are those “alternative facts” which you love so much. Indeed, FOX News has become the number one news channel specifically because it relies on “alternative facts,” that is telling its audience only what the audience wants to hear. Your own Bible warned you against falling for this:

    “For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;”
    – II Timothy 4:3 (KJV)

    But then, as you have often shown us, the Bible is only a minor impediment for evangelicals when worldly power is on the line

  • David Cohen

    “God appoints our rulers as He pleases; does not say they will be perfect
    or even good;”
    – What kind of fool would trust such a whimsical and capricious deity?

    “in fact quite the opposite. He also selects the leaders
    the people deserve.”
    – That would be shocking news to the victims of the third world dictatorships which the USA has propped up. But I guess that doesn’t matter to evangelicals.

    “Their is a message for you there and your Leftist
    ilk. You got what you deserve because you are part of the Lawless
    generation who inhabit these sites.”
    – Wow, even for you that is incredibly sanctimonious. But then, that was the main appeal of Dolt 45 from the beginning; sticking it to “duh libs.’ You were willing to ignore any crime, believe any lie, just so long as “duh libs’ were triggered.

  • David Cohen

    “An Impeachable Crime,”
    – There are two on record: soliciting interference from a foreign power in an American election and obstruction of a Congressional investigation.

    “Bipartisan support”
    – An impeachment is called for by the House. Bipartisan support is not needed for it. Bipartisan support will be needed for his removal because the GOP controls the senate. This is not likely though, as the GOP continues to put party above country,

    “and overwhelming Public support.”
    – This is not needed either, according to the procedures laid out in the Constitution. Overwhelming public support might convince the GOP to support removal from office. But, as long as folks like you cling to “alternative facts” you are not likely to be swayed by evidence.

  • This is why Impeachment has already failed; neither are impeachable crimes. The Senate will educate Congress in due course.

  • Ocelot Aardvark

    Just as the Pharisees falsely accused Christ of being “Beelzebub” and “the Devil” … so you follow in their ungodly lies.
    According to Scripture, anyone who follows the lawless one is deluded beyond redemption. God Himself has sent a
    “powerful delusion” to those who persist in supporting that wicked one. – 2 Thessalonians 2:9-12

    It is you who is “blinded” because you take pleasure in the wickedness of, and worship, TЯ卐m₽-the-Beast.

    Ever since the Odious Abomination erupted from the Bottomless Pit, vile hypocrites like you surrendered their souls to that unrepentant evil, thereby putting the Mark of the Beast in their own foreheads. And you dare falsely accuse others of what
    you are yourself?

    Not surprising, that’s what your Vile-Orange-Idol does all the time.

    The 3 R’s:

    By supporting, condoning, defending, and worshiping TЯ卐m₽ >–> the Beast, you have replaced the
    Holy Spirit of Christ in your heart with the evil spirit of the Beast. That is Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit!

    Renounce the Beast!
    Return to Christ!

    You have been warned.

  • David Cohen

    Did you just honestly say that soliciting foreign interference in American elections is NOT grounds for impeachment?

    It appears there is no point in trying to reason with you.

  • God does what He does. He is no respecter of persons. He does not rquire man’s approval for anything He does.
    I don’t know what matters to Evangelicals other than keeping God’s Laws.
    Lawlessness is a hallmark of the Leftist; killing babies is but an example.
    You don’t understand this country because you have been taught to hate it. Fortunately President Trump loves this country.
    There is a difference between Liberals and Leftists; Dershowitz is a Liberal while Soros is a Leftist. The Left has destroys everything it touches.

  • David Cohen

    – Ah yes, the ‘God works in mysterious ways’ cop-out, the go to defense to keep unreflective believers from engaging in critical thinking.
    – Seeing as how American evangelicals fell madly in love with a vice-promoting serial adulterer who was being investigated for fraud, its not hard to see that all they really care about is worldly power. Even a moment of critical thinking would reveal that (which is probably why it needs to be explained to you.)
    – There is no law in your Bible against abortion. There are plenty of references in the Bible to not abusing foreigners who come to your land though. But as you have so often shown, the Bible only applies when you want it to.
    – You have a very warped sense of what it means to love and hate. That seems to be fairly characteristic of evangelicals though. It is a large part of why your religion is dying in this country.
    – Just had to get the right-wing’s favorite bogeyman in there, didn’t you? Well, if all you have to offer is canned cliche’s you might as well get the most out of them.
    – The left destroys everything it touches? Try and remember that the next time you are enjoying a weekend.

  • Obama was the most liberal president we have ever had. But today his views don’t even have a place in his own party.

  • David Cohen
  • You cannot presuade any serious reader with Daniel’s opinion piece. When he says, “The central question at the heart of this matter has always been whether we will tolerate the president corruptly using the powers of his office for personal benefi.” he exposes his lack of understanding of Impeachment and his embrace of Trump hatred. What he stated is simply not an impeachable crime.
    There is and been no proof of his assertion thant Trump did anything for personal gain. This is why the Senate has already signaled their disbelief in the House argument.
    When constitutional lawyers like Dershowitz and Levin tell you that the President committed no impeachable act and journalists like Daniel say he did you know by which side you agreee with whether you are full of s***.!

  • David Cohen

    Oh I did not city The American Conservative to try and persuade you. I have already noted the futility of trying to appeal to you with reason. I cited it to address your comment that the impeachment is a partisan affair.

    There is, indeed a divide here, but it is not between liberal and conservative. It is between those who appreciate law and justice, like Larison, and blind Trump-lackies, like Dershowitz.

  • Impeachment is part of the Constitution; not fare for opinion writers. Opinion writers do not matter here; they have no vote and they do not understand the Constitution and Impeachment even less.
    In Congress opinion is split on a purely partisan line and has been on display continuously.
    Dershowitz is a life long democrat and hardly a Trump supporter; he voted for Hillary. But he holds the law in high regard and he has an informed opinion on the Articles not a partisan stake.

  • David Cohen
  • herman jr.

    Presidents are NEVER handpicked by God, they’re picked by the people. You know when a head of state is selected by God when he either says it directly or allows his chosen candidate to born in the succession line making his candidacy indisputable hence the reason why every Christian monarch uses the style “By the Grace of God” in their official titles (monarchs of other religions use some other variations of that title). America however rejected that ideology in their very constitution which begins with the phrase “We the people”, indicating that in the American political ideal, man, not God was seen as sovereign. This represent a departure of from the political philosophy of Christian nations, in traditional Christendom political thought, the idea was that God himself was the true sovereign who delegates the right to exercise all such authority to one man, who was known as the King. Catholic theology teaches that he delegates it to the Pope who then redistributes it to various temporal rulers, Orthodox and Protestant Churches reject the teaching of any such intermediary, however the essence is pretty much similar, nowhere in this political idea is popular sovereignty even a thing and therefore when America took off with this concept it was a grand departure of what was viewed as Christendom’s ideal. It is therefore not enough to say that Trump was not selected by God, it is more accurate to say that no POTUS was ever selected by God, because the very idea of a republic repudiates all such notions.

  • Not according to scriptures:

    Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.
    — Romans 13:1

    Jesus answered [speaking to Pilate], “You would have no power over me if it were not given to you from above.”
    — John 19:11

    By me kings reign…
    — Proverbs 8:15

    …he removes kings, and sets up kings…
    — Daniel 2:21

    Then God removed Saul and made David their king…
    — Acts 13:22

    No one … can exalt themselves. It is God who judges: He brings one down, he exalts another.
    — Psalms 75:6-7

    …the Most High has power over human kingdoms. He gives them to whomever he wishes.
    — Daniel 4:17

  • David Cohen

    So you have no idea what the difference is between a president and a king.

    How embarrassing for you.