Who Would YOU Have Been in Nazi Germany? The Same Person You Are Now.

Who Would YOU Have Been in Nazi Germany? The Same Person You Are Now. June 27, 2018

It’s easy to look back on the injustices in history, while shaking your fist and saying, “Well I woulda…!”

This is especially true when we reflect on the WWII era and the rise of Nazi rule that ultimately ushered in the Holocaust and the death of millions. Whether imagining yourself as an American at the time or someone living in Germany during the rise of the Third Reich, most people I know seem to claim they would have been among the brave souls who stood up and said something… who stood up and did something.

My conservative evangelical friends especially seem to love to fantasize about what they would have done, likening themselves to Dietrich Bonhoeffer (the Eric Metaxas version who was a conservative evangelical assassin, not the Bonhoeffer of history who was a Lutheran, an LGBTQ Christian, and wasn’t directly involved in any assassination plot). Yet, until now, the question as to “Who would you have been?” or, “What would you have done if you lived back then?” has been purely hypothetical and imaginary.

But this question is no longer hypothetical. It is no longer imaginary.

And neither is the answer to the question.

In fact, this question has an incredibly easy answer. Who would you have been had you lived during this historical era of evil and injustice? What would you have done?

You’d be the same person you are now.

You would have done what you are doing now.

It’s easy to sit there and push back, saying, “Nope, those two things are not the same.” While I agree that Hitler comparisons and calling people Nazi’s is often overplayed in today’s parlance, the era you find yourself in is eerily similar. And yes– who you would have been during the rise and rule of the Third Reich, and what you would have done to stop the injustices and atrocities committed against the innocent, is exactly who you are today– and exactly what you’re doing now.

You see, Hitler didn’t begin by building gas chambers. Like the old analogy of a frog in a pot that slowly heats up until it’s too late, the road that paved the way to gas chambers was much more incremental, subtle, socially palatable, seemingly justified, or easily ignored– both to those within Germany, and without.

It all started with a nation who felt their glory days were over, and who worried their economy was in trouble. Along came a leader who connected with those who were scared, angry, and nostalgic for the past. This new leader promised to fix the economy; he was determined to rebuild their military, and he convinced the masses that he would Make Germany Great Again.

They caved into their fears, and they bought into his vision– probably never imagining it would one day end in death camps.

Getting to that point happened slowly, and in ways that few seemed to challenge or find too objectionable. He’d call the media “fake news” in a move that would later make it easy to deny what was really happening. He blamed their problems on Jewish immigrants who he called “viruses” and “leeches” and claimed were destroying the economy. Eventually the masses of scared and angry white people, individuals who probably would have objected to the idea of death camps at the onset of his rule, had been subtly convinced that Jews were leeches who were getting in the way of Making Germany Great Again– so they turned a blind eye to some evils, and actively participated in others.

These individuals not only ended up on the wrong side of history, they were lulled into collectively committing one of the most evil acts the world has ever known. And those who stood up at the end, stood up too late– because the battle should not have been waged at death camps– it should have been waged when the foundation was still being laid.

The foundation upon which death camps were built began with unchecked nationalistic pride, nostalgia for the past, promises to Make Germany Great Again, accusations the media was fake news, and speech after speech that blamed Germany’s problems on immigrants who were supposedly killing the economy.

By the time there was an actual building erected on that foundation, it was too late.

So, who would you have been during Nazi Germany?

What would you have done?

Would you have been on the right side of history, or complicit on the road to horrific evil?

I don’t need you to answer that question, because I already know the answer.

Who you would have been, is exactly who you are now.

And what you would have done, is what you’re doing today.


unafraid 300Dr. Benjamin L. Corey is a public theologian and cultural anthropologist who is a two-time graduate of Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary with graduate degrees in the fields of Theology and International Culture, and holds a doctorate in Intercultural Studies from Fuller Theological Seminary. He is also the author of the new book, Unafraid: Moving Beyond Fear-Based Faith, which is available wherever good books are sold. www.Unafraid-book.com. 

Be sure to check out his new blog, right here, and follow on Facebook:


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What Are Your Thoughts?leave a comment
  • Who would I have been? Who am I? I am one of Millions of mentally ill, elderly,
    nobody’s who would have become human flakes pouring out of the crematoria!! Soon history will repeat itself!!

  • Not especially thought provoking – more like a bizarre fairy tale.
    One point to ponder is whether the media is trying to inform or shape political opinion.

  • $205938141

    With my last name I would have sucked gas.

  • So, you’d be gawking while the cattle cars are loaded, or actually loading them yourself?

    They let you hold a gun if you’re loading, if that makes a difference.

  • They are You in so many ways.

  • otrotierra

    Thank you Dr. Corey for speaking truth without apology, no matter how upsetting it is to White Evangelicals still supporting Trump’s hate-filled, xenophobic gospel. Will Evangelicals have ears to hear and eyes to see? Let’s observe:

  • Stop sniffing the glue….

  • Yes, things are clearer now, and more sorrowful. I understand better how things happened in Germany. If I had been there, based upon what I am doing now, I would have been shocked, I would have spoken out, then I would have felt powerless as I watched the politicians forge on ahead undeterred. I would have felt despair when people I loved cheered what the leadership was doing. I would have been aghast at the continued public political rallies. Close family would have told me to be careful what I say because he may be taking names. That’s what would have happened then, because that’s what’s happening now. Yet today, I take courage that there is resistance. I have a remarkable hope in the public cries for ethics and compassion, even though those cries are not coming from the church that I grew up in. Still, there is a humanitarian call yet sounding.

  • RevBill

    I agree with this essay, but I think there must be a better way to express right and wrong than saying “the right side of history.” Does history have a side? Is it a sentient being? Does it have a right side, a left side, a back side? Why not just say something like, “Would you have done what is right?” Or “Would you have followed Christian values?” Or “Would you have acted out of courage and compassion?”

  • Matthew

    I hope you don´t mind me asking, Benjamin, but can you specifically cite your sources that
    report Bonhoeffer to be an LGBTQ Christian and that also state he was not in any way part of the assassination plot?

    Thanks so much.

  • Matthew

    Silly rabbit … Trix are for kids!! :-)

  • Realist1234

    ‘Dietrich Bonhoeffer …was an LGBTQ Christian’

    – I wouldnt presume that. It’s based on a certain biography which partly looked at a close friendship he had. At the end of his life, Bonhoeffer was engaged, and according to his own words, going to his death ‘a virgin’.

    Even if he did have sexual feelings towards his friend, I dont think your labelling of him as an ‘LGBTQ Christian’ is appropriate, given that in most people’s minds, such a label refers to Christians who endorse gay sexual relationships and are involved in such. That doesnt seem to apply to Bonhoeffer.

    In his book, ‘Cost of Discipleship’, Bonhoeffer wrote: “Cheap grace is preaching forgiveness without requiring repentance, baptism without church discipline, Communion without confession. … Cheap grace is grace without discipleship, grace without the cross, grace without Jesus Christ, living and incarnate.”

    We can all learn from him.

  • Realist1234

    Is it just some ‘White Evangelicals’ who support Trump?

  • Let me entertain you
    Let me make you smile
    Let me do a few tricks
    Some old and then some new tricks
    I’m very versatile

    https://youtu.be/DCc8kSdeqxw

  • richard

    ben corey is attempting to equate the trump administration with nazism, like much of the press, when in reality it is the liberal left that is acting like the nazi party in their suppression of free speech, harassment of people, and downright hatred of those that do not agree with them. I am so sorry that he too can’t get past his feelings for Trump. And even grasping at straws as to bonhoeffer’s sexuality and assassination involvement. Trying to rewrite history to your liking, ben ?

  • Matthew

    Wow Charles. Here I am sitting in Germany viewing this YouTube clip. It truly drew me in. The beautiful voice. The scenery. The faces. But then as the camera pans down and begins to highlight the uniform, a spooky feeling came over me. Really.

    I went into the other room and asked my German mother-in-law if she had ever seen this film clip before. She couldn´t place it, but after a few minutes she said something like:

    “The Nazis were always trying to bring such talent to the forefront so the people would think “Oh how beautiful. This cannot possibly be bad.”

    My mother-in-law was born in 1937 in Berlin. I have learned so much from her.

  • Entertainment shapes the land the way the hammer shapes the hand…
    https://youtu.be/nggyni6bee4
    Casino Nation 2002
    -Jackson Browne

  • Matthew

    Thanks for this post Benjamin.

    I know there are those who think you´ve gone a bit crazy or over the top in your estimations, but every historical moment indeed has its beginnings.

    I thank you for the warning, though I truly hope you are wrong.

    Lord have mercy.

  • Matthew

    Hello Mike McCain.

    Can you briefly explain why Jehovah´s Witnesses don´t accept the Trinity?

  • Matthew

    Well Charles … I suppose everyone has a different experience with an artistic presentation.

    My wife was not as moved as I was by the “Tomorrow Belongs to Me” clip. She immediately said … too much like a Hollywood movie.

    Interesting …

  • Realist1234

    Hi Matthew – this made me cry! (the song starts at 58 secs). I found it quite spiritual. Peter

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLFEvHWD_NE

  • Realist1234

    Because they have a rather weird understanding of Scripture, which they have purposefully mistranslated. They reject Jesus as divine, but rather he is only a created being, and view the Holy Spirit as a ‘force’. Hence no Trinity in their understanding.

  • Matthew

    Thanks Peter.

  • Matthew

    I had some problems understanding all the lyrics … but I got the main message.

    If only we could be that accepting of one another as human beings. If only we could love as Christ loves. If only.

    Made me cry a little too Peter. Thanks brother. Let´s not be afraid of who we are.

    “This is Me!”

    [Edited]

  • AnnieOly

    Thank you for laying out the similarities so clearly. I’m sure it is a very uncomfortable question for many. Its uncomfortable for me because its a reminder to continue contacting my representatives, to show up at protests even though I’d much rather not. Fighting back is seldom convenient.
    It really is terrifying to see just how easily people claiming to be Christian can be manipulated into cheering for an anti-Christ.

  • otrotierra

    Just ray-ciss White-complected Evangelicals. Whenever I try to have bum sex with a White -complected Evangelical, they say “Yuck, you brown piece of shit! Get away from me!”

    It hurts me so.

  • Realist1234

    Yes the lyrics arent that clear. It was their emotional response that got to me more.

    The Lord accepts us as we are, but wants us to become more like Him. Little steps…

  • Cheryl Simon

    Being a half-Jewish mongrel, I would be dead. No one would have stood up for me.

  • Hugh Gitlin

    I’d be dead, most likely.

  • Mike McCain

    I would like to add to my previous comment. Jehovah’s Witnesses were not the only ones persecuted by the Nazis for their beliefs and/or conscience.

    For example. The attempt by the Confessing Church to resist is well documented. Thousands of Priests were imprisoned in concentration camps or murdered. The persecution of the Priests was especially severe in Poland. There were some in the camps who were there for being Conscience Objectors; with or without a religious faith.

    But, millions of Germans; Catholic, Lutheran and those belonging to other denominations either supported the Nazi regime actively or vacated their Christian principles and “just went along.”

  • otrotierra

    Dr. Corey and comment section moderators: a fraudulent Disqus account impersonating me has again resurfaced. This is the 6th occurance of such harrassing behavior.

    While the Evangelical troll can steal my username and avatar, he lacks the tools to steal my profile history. My Disqus accoutn was opened in 2011, remains public, with 4,775 comments and 14,154 upvotes. The abuser’s fraudulent account is set to private, of course, and was opened in June 2018:
    https://disqus.com/by/disqus_n7HXeYjpge/

    Evangelical trolls sure have earned their abusive reputations.

  • Matthew

    Yes … little steps.

  • otrotierra

    Ray-ciss White-complected Evangelicals is what I am talking about! They hurt me so with their self-righteousness and prosperity and exclusiveness – how does a brown-complected non-evangelical like me ever fit in with them? I too have a bum-hole, but they ignore me!

  • otrotierra

    You claim you have made over 4,700 comments, but they are just the same statements repeated incessantly:

    – White Evangelicals are bad
    – Jesus was brown-complected
    – Jesus never said homo-sex is bad
    – I am being persecuted by a White Evangelical

  • “Who you would have been, is exactly who you are now.”

    According to research performed by Ben Goossen of Harvard’s History Department, the Anabaptist Mennonites in Germany did not merely stand by passively but actively collaborated in the rise of Nazism. Some Mennonites were guards at concentration camps. At the time a full quarter of the world’s Mennonites lived in Germany. There is some irony in Dr. Corey, a Mennonite/Anabaptist, performing moral grandstanding when members of our own branch of Christianity actively supported the Nazis.

    Apart from Christ we are hopeless sinners, completely and utterly lost. If I had been in Germany would I have been like those Anabaptists mentioned in the Martyr’s Mirror who were killed for their beliefs? Or would I have joined my Anabaptist brethren in supporting national socialism? I don’t know. But I do know this: without Christ, I might have done great evil. It would be self-righteous and hypocrisy to claim anything else.

  • The above comment is from a parody ‘otrotierra’ account.

  • Everett Kier Jr

    Interestingly enough, there is a strong likelihood many progressives would have gone with the dominant religious culture. Bonhoeffer’s fight was not with the fundamentalist, his allegiance was with the confessing church as opposed to the church of “what’s happening now”…just saying.

  • Ben is thrilled to be back and have such a great response. He understands his audience and can get them near hysteria at will.

  • The Left received two mortal blows this week both from SCOTUS. The union dues decision is a crusher for campaign contributions but the replacement of Kennedy with a stronger conservative is devastating for judicial activism. When McConnell told the country last night he intends to have the Trump nominee in place by the first week in October we all went wild with excitement. Even better, Ginsburg won’t hand in there throughTrump’s first term let alone his second.

  • Don’t know which Ot….you are but you are deluded just the same.

  • richard

    yes, ginsburg’ doctors have to keep her alive as long as possible. but if trump gets/wants a second term, that may be difficult. I admire kennedy for wanting to enjoy a bit of retirement.

  • Bones

    Apart from that they’re just like you.

    They dont like gays either.

  • Bones

    Wrong!
    Conservatives went with hitler….The conservative party merged with the nazis and were in coalition with them.

    The German National People’s Party (German: Deutschnationale Volkspartei, DNVP) was a national conservative party in Germany during the time of the Weimar Republic. Before the rise of the National Socialist German Workers’ Party (NSDAP) it was the major conservative and nationalist party in Weimar Germany. It was an alliance of nationalists, reactionary monarchists, völkisch, and antisemitic elements, and supported by the Pan-German League.[11]

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_National_People%27s_Party

    And yes they hated liberals too.

    Bonhoeffer was no conservative. He was a theological liberal.

  • Bones

    And you are deceitful and dishonest.

  • Bones

    Nope. Trumps emboldened these people
    https://youtu.be/eWKgsDr8-OM

    How weird that a libertarian supports government attacks on families.

    And people thought hitler was great too.

  • Bones

    Yeah we get that you wank off over trump.

  • Bones

    Its very similar especially the way a cult is being made up around him. And using the same rhetoric ie dont trust main line media, dont question what i say or do, hatred of liberalism, spreading divisive rhetoric against minorities….

  • Bones

    And once again you show how f###ed up people like you are.

  • Bones

    Hi (p)rick..Missed me hey.
    Now you have a reason to live.

  • Bones

    As would most liberals.

  • Bones

    Ah yes what a bs system where judges are appointed on account of their politics.

  • Bones

    Oh gee (p)rick…you’ve missed me so much.

    And still have nothing to add to anything ..

  • Bones

    I get it (p)rick.

    But i’m married dude.

    And i dont bat left handed.

    You’ll have to go to grindr to find what you’re after.

  • Bones

    And you have none…..

    Here i’ll give you one.

    Feel better now (p)rick.

    It is an honour to know how much you fantasise about me.

  • Bones

    Bonhoeffer was a theological liberal.

    You’d hate him too.

  • Bones

    We all know who der fuhrer is.

    Wasnt aware you were worshipping him now.

  • Bones

    You’re truly f###ed in the head
    Thanks for showing how low scumbag conservatives like yourselves are.

  • Bones

    Except the nazis killed the democrats.

    Obviously not much of a buff on world history either.

  • Bones

    Nope. Thats you. You would cheer on trump if he killed someone.

    He said it himself.

  • richard

    bones, everybody leans a bit. Some more noticeable than others.
    To get a truly impartial judge one has wait till they die.

  • Everett Kier Jr

    and he broke with the theological liberals….your assumption is so 21st century wheere evangelical is synonymous with Republican.

  • Iain Lovejoy

    Fortunately, in this context, I am not an American and I don’t have to answer the question as to what I would do if I was. As an observer I would say I have no idea how far Trump and the Republicans will go, or want to go, and the idea they intend to go as far as the Nazi party did seems far-fetched. But that’s the point: the idea that the Nazi’s would go as far as they did also seemed far fetched to those at the time until they actually did so, and by the time they did so, it was too late to stop them.
    Frankly I think comparisons between Trumpism and Nazism are overblown, at least so far, and they aren’t, probably, looking to set up gas chambers any time soon, but you can’t sit around waiting to find out. You can’t allow a little bit of horrible because it makes you feel safer, or because you don’t care much, or it p*sses off your political opponents without potentially opening the door to much, much worse. Even if, or especially if, you are a conservative you need to be saying “No, that’s enough, you are overstepping the mark.”

  • kaydenpat

    Blocked for impersonation. Discus should block you completely.

  • kaydenpat

    Is there a way you can report this to Discus and get him banned?

  • kaydenpat

    As a Black liberal woman, I’d also be dead.

  • otrotierra

    Thanks for your inquiry. Disqus does have a User Terms of Service, a Publisher’s Terms of Service, and protocols for reporting those in violatation of the terms. But not unlike Twitter and other social media hotspots, Disqus evidently doesn’t know how to address those who repeatedly violate their own terms. Evangelical bullies thrive in environments that enable their abusive behavior, from social media sites to megachurches to 24 hour “news” networks to the current presidential administration. Their rage-filled gnashing of teeth is their witness, their gospel, their applied theology, and it’s how history will remember them.

  • kaydenpat

    Well hopefully Discus will take action. Surely, it is against Duscus rules to impersonate another account holder.

  • Bones

    Lol antifa…

    Trump has emboldened these people….

    https://youtu.be/Lz3q0baxHpc

  • Bones

    No bonhoeffer didnt. He embraced humanism and religionless christianity.

    Stop being dishonest for once and making bonhoeffer out to be something he wasnt.

    Oh and lying about history.

    But thats par for the course with your type.

  • Bones

    No. It doesnt work that way in the rest of the western world.

    The US system of appointments of justices based on their politics is more at home in dictatorships and i dont care which side you’re on.

  • Everett Kier Jr

    From the expert who references Wikipedia and hangs around a religion blog while professing to be religionless. What type is that?

  • Bones

    Lol….is this your standard response for being caught out lying?

    There’s no way you’d repent because your head’s so far up your arse.

    Come back when you have an ounce of credibility because you have none.

  • Bones

    Btw let us know when you actually study bonhoeffer and not your lying evangelical misrepresentations.

    I wont hold my breath waiting.

  • Matthew

    There are people of different shades and colors in this blog comment section.

    We need to find ways to come together, look for the truth in what each other is attempting to say and rejoice in that.

  • Bones

    I’m not convinced by it…..

    MAKING ASSUMPTIONS ABOUT DIETRICH: How Bonhoeffer was Made Fit for America

    by FERDINAND SCHLINGENSIEPEN

    http://thebonhoeffercenter.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=37:schlingensiepen-on-metaxas-and-marsh&catid=21&Itemid=263

  • Bones

    Of course hitler’s antigay laws lasted well into the 60s.

    In fact the allies didn’t free gay prisoners in concentration camps.

  • Bones

    Gay people in concentration camps weren’t even released by the allies after the german surrender neither were they eligible for compensation.

    Hitler’s antigay laws in germany remained well into the 60s.

  • Bones

    Jackson browne isnt much of a fan of trumps….

    Authorities investigated possible threat against Jackson Browne concert in Orlando

    https://www.google.com.au/amp/www.orlandosentinel.com/news/crime/os-jackson-browne-concert-threat-orlando-20180122-story,amp.html

  • Bones

    Yeah apparently we need to be civil.

  • otrotierra

    On display here is yet another example of unearned Evangelical privilege. They assume the privilege of spreading lies and slander without consequences. Thank you Bones for calling out their gospel of bearing false witness.

  • Matthew

    Thanks Bones.

    I´m convinced that both Metaxas and Marsh probably got some things wrong and some things right — historically and biographically speaking that is. Some readers will cling to certain aspects of the reported stories, others to other aspects, but in the end we´ll probably never know with 100% certainty the real story and life of Dietrich Bonhoeffer.

    What´s most important — I think — are the questions I´m personally left with at the end of the day. What does the life of Dietrich Bonhoeffer mean to me? If he was a homosexual — does it matter? Whether a theological liberal or conservative (I´m tempted to think, like some of us, Bonhoeffer was probably not static in his theological understandings) — does it really matter? A pacifist not at all part of the assassination plot or a “just war” Christian who was part of the assassination plot — does it really matter?

    To me (and at the end of the day I´m the only one who has to live with my personal understanding and interpretation of his life):

    He loved Christ. He bravely stood up against injustice. He paid the ultimate price for what he believed to be true and right. I can certainly learn something from that.

    I will add in closing that I am also fully aware that the lives of C.S. Lewis, Dietrich Bonhoeffer, William Wallace, Martin Luther, etc. looked very different when I was in Christian fundamentalist circles. We must always be aware of selectively telling a story or painting a human life picture with only one, bright color.

    [Edited]

  • andHarry

    This pdf paints a somewhat different picture of Hitler’s attitude to gays; http://www.drjudithreisman.com/archives/pink_swastika.pdf
    A fascinating read which smacks of the truth. The allies would have had a different, admittedly oppressive, attitudes to gays.

  • Thinking you have a magic rock against turning evil is a good way to not notice when you’ve turned evil.

  • Everett Kier Jr

    says the man of obvious credibility….have fun amusing yourself….

  • Bones

    Lol…the pink swastika is complete and utter unhistorical garbage. Its not written by historians but by evangelical christians and is totally discredited.

    The truth is that thousands of gay people were sent to concentration camps

    “Erik N. Jensen regards the authors’ linkage of homosexuality and Nazism as the recurrence of a “pernicious myth”, originating in 1930s attacks on Nazism by Socialists and Communists and “long since dispelled” by “serious scholarship”.[8] Jensen sees the book as coming about in “the aftermath of an Oregon measure to repeal gay rights”.[8] Dorthe Seifert cites it as a response to increasing awareness of Nazi persecution of homosexuals.[9] Christine L. Mueller argues that the historical record does not support Abrams’ assertions.[10] Bob Moser, writing for the Southern Poverty Law Center, says the book was promoted by anti-gay groups and that historians agree its premise is “utterly false”.[11]

    Jonathan Zimmerman, a historian at New York University, wrote that the claim that gay people helped bring Nazism to Germany “is a flat-out lie.”[12] Zimmerman, points out that “Between 1933 and 1945, the Nazis arrested roughly 100,000 men as homosexuals. Most convicted gays were sent to prison; between 5,000 and 15,000 were interned in concentration camps, where they wore pink triangles to signify their supposed crime.”[12] He further notes, “To win their release from the camps, some gays were forced to undergo castration. Others were mutilated or murdered in so-called medical experiments by Nazi doctors, who insisted that homosexuality was a disease that could be ‘cured’.”[12] In addition, “Hitler authorized an edict in 1941 prescribing the death penalty […] for SS and police members found guilty of gay activity.”[12][13]”

    Scott Lively was up on hate crime charges for his role in ugandas death penalty for gay people.
    So thats the sort of deceitfulness and propaganda in this book.

  • Bones

    Meh you people have no shame even lying about the dead to spread your own ideology.

    Cowards!

    We see you for what you are.

  • Bones

    Metaxas got nothing right.

    He tried to turn bonhoeffer into a right wing fundy. In truth he was more liberal than me.

    He was nothing of the sort that Metaxas tried to make him out to be.

    Its all about ideology and propaganda.

    For those who deal in facts, it matters when people try to twist history.

  • Bones

    The way they shamelessly lie is just astounding.

  • Bones

    Yeah derpy i think bonhoeffer was on to something with his religionless christianity.

    It would mean not being hypocritical liars like you.

    Lol you’d hate bonhoeffer.

  • Bones

    That was disgraceful.

    Reisman is a supporter of Scott Lively and his completely insane screed, The Pink Swastika. She has claimed that she believes that a homosexual movement in Germany gave rise to the Nazi Party and the Holocaust,[14] She enthusiastically and unconditionally endorses criminalization of homosexuality.[15] despite the fact that homosexuals were were one of the Nazis’ target groups for annihilation.

    Reisman has claimed that the homosexuals employ recruitment techniques that rival those of the United States Marine Corps[5] to transform innocent children into raving homosexuals. According to Reisman homosexual “recruitment is loud; it is clear; it is everywhere.”

  • Bones

    You mean like mexicans.

  • Matthew

    Yes to Doritos …
    Yes to red wine …
    Yes to Star Wars, but no to Star Trek …

    Do we have consensus? :-)

  • Matthew

    What should an authorized (or unauthorized for that matter :-)) biography of Bones from Australia include?? Maybe one could read all your posts here, do a little analysis and interpretation, and voila, we got Bones´ life down pat!

    Do you have an idea for a working title? Cover art?

    :-) :-) :-)

  • andHarry

    By enjoining a childlike understanding of Scripture, Jesus proofed it against the innovative interpretations of ‘the wise and learned’ So, what scripture conveys to the child is a fundamentalist understanding at Piaget’s ‘concrete operations stage. All other understandings are of the innumerable sects.
    I am with the child as you once were in your understanding of the Bible stories.

  • andHarry

    The little child’s reading is the foundation on which understanding rests. Jesus said ‘Unless you repent and become like a little child you will never ..’etc. etc.

    My opinion on what the best authority said.
    It is also the opinion which both of us once held.

  • SamHamilton

    This all seems a tad too conveniently formulated to pat on the back those of us who oppose aspects of President Trump’s rhetoric and actions as the type of people who would have stood of up to murderous Nazis (aren’t we courageous and brave!!) while essentially saying that people who are indifferent to or support aspects of President Trump’s actions/behavior would have been Nazi enablers. To say that we would have courageously opposed the rise of the Nazis in the face of violent SS gangs because we oppose President Trump’s immigration policies or the nasty things he’s said, despite the lack of any physical danger to ourselves in 21st Century America, seems too self-righteous and easy (particularly, when, for most people, “opposing Trump” means posting something critical of him on the Internet or not voting for him in an election). This seems like pretty cheap grace to me.

    What if someone took the time to compare the rhetoric and policy proposals of various American progressive political leaders over the past 20 or so years to those of leftist world leaders who became totalitarian thugs in decades past? I’m sure students of history could come up with some good similarities. Would it be appropriate to tell American progressives who admired those American political leaders that they would have been cheering on the leftist, oppressive dictators in other countries? What would you have been doing in 1960s Cambodia, 1950s China, or 1920s Russia?

    I recommend this article from a couple years ago. Quit comparing people to Hitler. https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/03/trump-hitler-comparisons-213711

  • Realist1234

    Their understanding is based on a purposeful mistranslation of the Greek of the New Testament. There is no excuse for that.

  • Realist1234

    Ask a non-Christian Greek scholar and see what they say.

  • andHarry

    Similarly if I must be honest, guided by what I was like up until I was 30 yrs of age, I
    would have followed the crowd and been involved in dubious activities and behaviour.
    I only became a Christian in my early thirties; and had my world turned upside-down.

  • Bones

    Meh…..my ancestors killed nazis.

  • Bones

    Knowing the dishonesty of conservatives they’d describe me as an Ethiopian evangelical fundamentalist trump worshipper.

  • Bones

    Or worse: describe me as english or american.

  • Bones

    The little child shouldnt be reading gay hating literature.

  • Bones

    Well you certainly would have loved the killing gays bit.

  • Bones

    Classic Star Trek is the best.

    The last star wars movie (not solo) was a fetid turd.

  • Ron McPherson

    “Classic Star Trek is the best.”

    Amen, preach it brother!

  • Matthew

    I´m of the Star Wars, Empire Strikes Back, and Return of the Jedi generation. I haven´t seen any of the others …

  • Bones

    Yeah the gospels are better than the prequels.

  • Realist1234

    Nah. Even skeptic Bart Ehrman has said he and Bruce Metzger, probably the leading New Testament textual criticism scholar of the 20th century, would agree on the original text of the NT with very few differences. When a leading skeptic and a leading conservative scholar agree, that says something.

  • Realist1234

    Like Prince Harry…

  • Realist1234

    I didnt mention variants. He said he would agree with Metzger’s understanding of the original text, with few differences between them as to what the original text said. He also thinks Jesus was definitely historical, but believes some of the Christian understanding of Him developed over the decades rather than being original to Him. But many disagree with that.

    As to Ehrman himself, he seems to have a black or white type of mind-set so it was not really surprising that he eventually rejected so-called fundamentalism.

  • Matthew

    Sorry … but although Bones can be a bit crass at times, he does have some worthwhile things to say — especially about geopolitical topics. I have learned a lot from him, particularly how to deal with those who you don´t agree with — especially theologically.

    As much as it is possible, live in peace with everyone. And while I fail much of the time, I´m trying to do this each and everyday RickNowlinpa.

  • Matthew

    I posted the following at another popular progressive blog here on Patheos.
    I have no idea why it was deleted by the author of the blog. I´d appreciate
    some thoughts. Thanks. (If this is too off topic, I´d ask the moderators to
    simply delete it here as well).

    I get it. Too much nationalism in the church.

    I get it. Empire belongs to Caesar, but the Kingdom of God belongs to Jesus Christ.

    Having been part of the conservative evangelical scheme in America for some time, where there is a
    dangerous and poisonous mix of religion and right wing politics, I get the desire of many preachers,
    pastors, etc. these days to warn us about the blasphemy of “cozying up” with
    the kings of the world. This kind of teaching is very en vogue in
    many progressive, post-evangelical settings.

    I get it. It´s all money, mars, mammon and war. It´s Roma.

    That said, I can´t help but think this is a bit of a knee jerk reaction. Empire is not all bad. I´m drawn
    to the Monty Python bit about “What have the Romans ever done for us” right about now. Empire does good things
    (sometimes) and government, when done well, is supposed to be a steward of the good according to St. Paul. No … it´s not the Body of Christ,
    that much is true, but when Christians are involved in influencing the political process (and by this I DON´T mean American, partisan politics)
    good things can happen — especially in the area of social justice.

    I happen to live in a country with a very sordid past, but over the last 70 years or so it has made great strides in attempting
    to govern well. From a political perspective, this is also good news of its own sort. I think
    leaders in the church should be helping their people learn how to properly navigate the political spectrum, encouraging them to think deeply and
    intelligently about how their faith can shape the public square.The church cannot provide all the services and legislation that a government
    can, despite what many conservative Christians in America believe, so a partnership between the two spheres is very much needed.

    Telling Christians to send the government packing is not the answer, I don´t think.

  • Bones

    When will (p)rick stop stalking his love interest.

  • Bones

    Lol……..(p)rick seems to be the expert on arseholes. Everyone should buy (p)rick the arsehole. One arseholes infatuation with a disqus poster.

  • Bones

    Hey (p)rick. You’d hate bonhoeffer too.

  • Bones

    (P)rick missed that harry thinks the holocaust was a gay plot.

    Thats becauuse (p)rick is a stupid arsehole.

  • Bones

    Why? Its good to see Ireland embrace enlightenment over superstition.

    Most of the West has.

  • Matthew

    I´m wondering … what´s wrong with progressive theological understanding? I hear the argument sometimes that it´s important to cherish what the very early church believed, rather than what the church believed many years later. It´s the whole Jesus of the church, Jesus of history debate. Some also say Paul (or Pauline Christianity) is sort of an “add-on”, but shouldn´t be taken seriously as doctrine because it came so much later in time. I´m not certain I agree with this.

    The Spirit was given to the church and has not stopped counseling, speaking, teaching etc. It´s all part of an ongoing, revelatory process as I see it. Also … as Paul dealt with his Jewish identity, coupled his belief that Jesus is Israel´s Messiah and was raised from the dead, I´m sure he was very much in a process of figuring out what all that meant theologically speaking and how to share what he was thinking and learning with the churches under his care.

    I mean … one only has to read Romans to see how Paul was struggling with dismissing the law (as an example), but also stressing the importance of the law. It´s like Paul had one hand in the old wineskin, and one hand in the new wineskin, and working through this wasn´t easy. Many scholars say Romans is the best example of Paul´s acuity and philosophical acumen, but after having read through Romans myself, I find the letter to be the work of someone who was on a journey still figuring things out. It´s not as clear as the “Romans Road” crowd would have you believe.

    [Edited]

  • Realist1234

    Hi Matthew, Ive never thought of Paul as an ‘add-on’ to Christianity. Most who say such things tend to be those who disagree with him on certain issues, such as gay relationships etc, and so argue his understanding was purely cultural and is not relevant now. But then much of what Jesus taught was within a cultural settting, of 1st century Judaism. Indeed basically the same culture as Paul’s. Remember that Paul was already writing some of his letters to churches a mere 20 years after Jesus departed. That’s like saying so much is so different now to say the year 2000. Ludicrous!

    That is one of the problems I have with ‘progressive theology’. It tends to primarily and sometimes only take its understanding from Jesus’ words alone, as if His apostles etc have very lttle to say that is relevant (hence a rejection of all violence and war (Jesus showed no violence (except of course in the Temple, twice), acceptance of gay relations as Jesus didnt say anything about them etc). But this of course ignores the context – there was no need to condemn gay sex because it was obviously condemned within Jewish society. Rather He condemned ALL sexual immorality within which all Jews would include such behaviour. And hence so-called ‘red letter Bibles’. But they forget those writers were followers of Jesus and His teaching as well, though obviously in a different cultural setting from ourselves.

    Im not sure that Paul was ‘struggling’ with how to view the Law. I think we tend to struggle to fully understand his view! He was very quick to challenge probably the leading apostle, Peter, over some aspects of the Law in relation to Gentile converts. He clearly believed Peter to be wrong and told him so. They seemed to have fallen out over that but then reconciled, hence his later stay with Peter and James. This also reminds us that the apostles were fallible human beings. And of course their Scriptures were only the Old Testament at the time.

  • Matthew

    Thanks so much Peter.

    I think my main point is I don´t think I share the viewpoint that Paul´s teachings and theology should be excluded from a Gospel conversation because they seem to be different than Jesus´ teachings as recorded in the Gospel accounts.

    I think Paul, as an apostle of Jesus Christ, was simply building on what Jesus had surely begun, which was primarily a kingdom Gospel. Like I said in my previous comment, I see Paul, as evidenced by what he writes, as someone who was coming to grips with how to understand his Jewish identity, the Jews as the chosen people of God, etc. with his new understanding of Jesus as Israel´s Messiah who was raised from the dead and the opening of the Gospel flood gates to the Gentile world. I cannot imagine Paul (as a Jew) not struggling a bit with all this — but that´s just my take.

  • Realist1234

    Agreed!

  • Matthew

    Nice! It´s not often people find agreement here in the Dr. BLC comment section :-) :-) :-)! (well … maybe SOME agreement :-))

    Have you ever been to Europe?

    [Edited]

  • Bones

    Lol….someone give (p)rick a tissue.

    Better go back to defending morons who believe the nazis were gay.

    Because thats the sort of human you are.

  • Bones

    Lol (p)rick wants to see women die from unsafe abortions.

    Someone give him a cookie….

  • Bones

    Lol (p)rick as i said its an honour that you fantasise about me.

    You should try grindr.

  • The Progressives are self-destructing in every way possible. They are losing their minds because Trump is succeeding at everything he promised. But finally they have lost their grip on their constituents: #WalkAway

  • Kind of like Weekend at Bernies for Ginsburg…

  • I have seen Bones chastised by Ben for calling someone a “retard.” My best guess is that Bones is in a mental ward in Australia and he has computer privileges.

  • OutsideLookingIn

    Nicely stated.

  • Matthew

    Hello Peter. Have you ever read “The Divine Conspiracy” — Dallas Willard?

  • Realist1234

    No but a relative highly recommends him.

  • Realist1234

    Oh dear. This made me cry too. Just beautiful. Only the Lord is enough…

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jZVsr7q-tE

  • Realist1234

    Indeed Matthew. Perhaps the blogger doesnt have a sense of humour – probably best not to mention Monty Python (I have mixed feelings about the Life of Brian but the stoning scene is hilarious).

    Without the government, good or bad, society would collapse. Could you imagine how the crime rate would soar without a recognised police force! It would be like The Purge, every day.

    Trump visited the UK today! There were thousands out protesting, in London and numerous other cities. I get that, and praise God we live in a country that allows peaceful demonstrations. But then when the Chinese premier visited a few years ago, I can only remember a few local Chinese protesting his visit with the PM and the Queen. Yet he leads an atheist, communist and Christian-persecuting government. Funny that.

  • Matthew

    Thanks so much Peter. I have mixed feelings about MP too. The scene I´m referring to is quite telling though …

  • I see your previous comment is “awaiting moderation.” What has always struck me about Jehovah’s Witnesses, and indeed separates them from most of evangelicalism, is a steadfast rejection of nationalism, or what evangelicals like to call “patriotism.” Some aspects of this, such as conscientious objection were originally a part of fundamentalism in other denominations, but due to criticism from the general population, was abandoned after the First World War and replaced with unbridled White Nationalism. The group that most resembles JW’s is probably the Anabaptists today (Mennonites). Although they tend to a more diverse theological stance, or allow more leeway of thought within their denomination.

    Having many deep theological talks with a former JW boss years ago, I can say there are a number of things I find in agreement with JWs. Hell, or eternal punishment, not Biblical, the teaching is a misunderstanding of some Bible passages. Heaven is not our final destination, a recreated New Earth is. Evangelicals have “spiritualized” what, in Jesus’ teaching, and Jewish thought, is a very earthly paradise. It is the coming Kingdom, not heaven. I tend to think of heaven as “command central.”

    Many Anabaptist refuse to participate in politics, and I see the advantage and disadvantages. It is good to remember Jesus said to render unto Caesar what is Caesar’s. God is not a Republican or Democrat. He’s not even an American, lol, and America is the greatest nation on earth! American exceptionalism is anti-gospel.

    The closest thing to the Lutheran Church’s complacency to the Nazi rise to power that we’ve seen in America is perhaps the S Baptist’s overt racism and persecution, including murder, of Blacks following the American Civil War and the development of segregation. A terrible stain on the evangelical church.

  • I believe it was “the problem of evil,” that led Ehrman to agnosticism. He doesn’t find that the scriptures themselves led him to agnosticism, just his inability to justify suffering and a God who could intervene. Obviously he hasn’t looked into “Open Theology.” His books should be on every Christians shelf I believe. Having read “Jesus Interrupted” and starting “How Jesus Became God,” I find his honesty refreshing.

  • Bones
  • Bones

    #thingspricksaid

  • Bones

    That’s because if it was aimed at you it was offensive to them.

  • Bones

    Still bitching about progress in Ireland I see.

    Well that’s what you people are like.

  • Bones

    Lol, you should move to Indonesia

    You’d love it.

    Indonesia girl jailed for abortion after being raped by brother

    15-year-old sentenced to six months for terminating pregnancy after six-week limit

    https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2018/jul/21/indonesia-girl-jailed-for-abortion-after-being-raped-by-brother

    Welcome to the modern western world, Ireland.

  • Bones

    And I give you Miss D

    ““I remember people protesting over me, praying for me, all the time,” she recalls.

    The placards outside read “Abortion is forever” and “She’s a child, not a choice”. There were blown-up pictures of a foetus in the womb.

    It was 2007. Just a few months before the court case, Amy had been looking forward to finishing school and starting a career. She wanted to be an actor, or perhaps a chef.

    Instead, the most intimate details of her life became a national topic of conversation. Miss D became – without choosing to – another milestone in Ireland’s long battle over whether it should allow abortion.

    “I felt like I was committing a crime. I was being made to believe… that I was committing a crime.””

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/idt-sh/Ireland_abortion_referendum

    That’s people like you who hound women and young girls…..

  • Bones

    As prime minister Leo Varadkar noted in an official statement, “We already have abortion in Ireland, but it’s unsafe, unregulated and unlawful and […] we cannot continue to export our problems.”

    https://qz.com/1286308/ireland-abortion-referendum-who-is-savita-happalanava-icon-of-the-yes-campaign/

    Stiff shit for the women and young girls who can’t afford to travel to the UK.

  • Bones

    And yes the young girls suffered because of your country’s anti-abortion policies – to keep you happy

    A pregnant, suicidal rape victim fought Ireland’s new abortion law. The law won

    Anti-abortion activists claim that legal restrictions are in the best interests of women, but they never are

    There is one thing that suicidal rape victims need: immediate assistance. But for one young woman in Ireland who was pregnant and seeking an abortion after reportedly being attacked, the only thing her government offered was the slow, bureaucratic violation of her humanity.

    The unnamed woman, now 18, was reportedly raped as a minor and sought an abortion just eight weeks into her pregnancy. Even after experts found her to be suicidal – a prerequisite for abortion under a new Irish law – she was denied access to the procedure. According to a report by the Sunday Times, the woman, who is not an Irish citizen, believes that the government deliberately delayed her case – both through the state’s decision to ignore psychiatric experts and via her inability to travel because of her legal status – so that she would have to carry the pregnancy at least through the fetus’s viability. After going on a hunger strike, she was forced to undergo a caesarean section at just 25 weeks into her pregnancy.

    That’s 17 full weeks after she first sought help.

    It’s clear from this latest young woman’s case that those guidelines and policies did what many suspect that they were designed to do: make it as difficult as possible for women to get the care they need.

    The other piece of this horrific puzzle is the questionable ethics of delivering a fetus at 25 weeks. As mother to a daughter who was born at 28 weeks, I’m well-versed in the nightmare scenarios of babies born too early. Preemies born before 26 weeks – sometimes called micropreemies – are at high risk for brain bleeds, cerebral palsy, blindness, deafness, necrotizing enterocolitis (when tissue in the intestines die off) and many other physical and mental disabilities. They also must endure serious invasive medical procedures, including surgeries, intubation, feeding tubes and central intravenous lines. And while the survival rates of young preemies has gone up in recent years, the chances of severe and lasting disabilities have not gone down.

    I understand that, to those who believe all abortion is unequivocally wrong, a suffering child might be better than no child at all – but that is not a decision best made by government flow-charts and distant bureaucrats, but by the family members involved.

    As more information on this case comes out, the outrage over Ireland’s treatment of women will only grow. Dr Favier calls what happened to the teenager “a shocking indictment of Ireland – there’s no other country in the civilized world where this would have happened”. McCarthy told me the case “illustrates quite clearly that women are treated as little more than incubators under Irish law”. The United Nations agrees – just last month, UN Human Rights Committee chairman Nigel Rodley said Irish abortion laws treat pregnant women as “a vessel and nothing more”.

    We may not know her name, but we know that this woman is more than a vessel – even if she was treated as such. And we know she was wronged by a government that should have protected her when she needed it most.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/aug/18/pregnant-suicidal-victim-ireland-abortion-law

  • Bones
  • Bones

    Lol, this from a person who posted lies about Margaret Sanger…..and encourages those who lie and impersonate other posters….and pretends to be one thing then goes on other sites and bitches…..

    Why do you lie so much?

    The simple fact is people like you made it difficult for those girls which you had no business with.

    There’s been no point in talking with you since you were caught out lying behind our backs.

  • Bones

    Lol….that is funny.

    You even lie about your own behaviour.

  • Cynthia

    I’ll disagree to a certain extent, and take it a step farther.

    Things in the US have deteriorated, but there is still some public sense of rights and some limit on violence. That helps to constrain people.

    The real question is what someone would do if those constraints were removed, and if they could be persuaded to go along with things now seen as extreme. [This isn’t a right or left thing – it is an about what happens when a sense of individual rights breaks down entirely and the state itself becomes extreme.]

    The new Showtime “Who is America” program with Sacha Baron Cohen may be a comedy, but that is the very serious question underlying it. What can people be persuaded to do, what will they go along with?

  • I am Caesar, that’s why it says “Jesus, Pharaoh of the Jews” on the cross. 100% certified “worse than Hitler” because Hitler can’t touch your soul – but I can.

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/152342a4c927542de46bfc505bca2ec9406e77dd42a49cea8ee5405a091f5089.png

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpWOYeHwcNo

  • Summers-lad

    I’ve just finished reading “On Hitler’s Mountain” by Irmgard Hunt. The author was a child during WW2, and she describes how her parents and others were drawn into supporting the Nazis in the 1930s – much as you say. From what I know of America, the political parallels are noticeable, much as you say. I recommend it.
    But there is one major difference. Germany in the 1920s and 30s was battered from its involvement in WW1 and by the suppression of its economy by the victorious powers. Poverty was rife. Hyper-inflation had taken hold. I know there are areas of poverty in America, as there are in Britain. Some communities are suffering, and I believe the gap between your rich and poor is widening. But as far as I know, overall your economy is pretty strong. I really don’t know what “Make America Great Again” means: when was it great? In what ways is it not great now? The answers to these questions in 1930s Germany would have been plain to all.
    Hitler exploited very real economic problems to his own ends, with appalling results. The discontent which has contributed to Donald Trump’s election, and in Britain towards our small majority for leaving the EU, is harder to pin down. These are real. They must be addressed by politicians of good conscience. But they are not, by and large, disasters. So I don’t believe that the conditions that led to Hitler gaining power exist in Britain or America today. But the moral call to remain alert remains.
    Where would I have been? I honestly don’t know.

  • 2ndbone

    I agree. Is O’bama’s “Fundamentally Change America” any less disturbing than “Make America Great Again”?

  • 2ndbone

    One massive difference between Hitler and Trump; Hitler was the leader of the Nazi party–the National Socialist German Worker’s Party. Key word: Socialist. Who, the right or left, is promoting socialism? What is Trump supporting? Less Government control, less government interference, more capitalism. This blog is way off the mark!

  • 2ndbone

    We need to find ways to come together…. Praise be to God! Let’s start by not calling each other Nazi’s.

  • Mr. Demiurge

    I actually think this comparison is unfair to the Germans living under the Nazis. No, the Nazis didn’t start with gas chambers…but they did start with Dachau, a concentration camp built for their political enemies, just a couple of months after Hitler was appointed chancellor. And while Dachau wasn’t comparable to Auschwitz, it was still marked by brutality on a level we haven’t yet seen from the Trump administration.

    From the very first months of Nazi rule, a German faced great danger for being openly opposed to the Nazis. An American opposed to Trump faces…what? Twitter trolls? Fox News? The danger of vocalizing opposition is much lower, even if the crimes are likewise not yet at the same level as even the Nazis in the early days. What stays someone from fighting against what’s happening is thus either active support or apathy, rather than the justified fear of opponents of Hitler.

  • otrotierra

    Yes, they should.

  • otrotierra

    How can you tell I am a conservative?

  • otrotierra

    A parody account is “deceitful and dishonest”? Ho-kay

  • Eris, elder daughter of Nyx

    I said it before, and I keep saying it:

    When I was young, I wondered, “Why didn’t good people stop the Nazis? Why did they allow all that evil to happen?”

    Now, as an adult, I find myself wondering, “How do you stop the Nazis? How do you prevent all that evil from happening?”

    Because wow, is it huge, and nothing I do seems to be having any kind of impact at all. The people who are in power absolutely do not care what I think, feel, or want, and there are masses of people who are willing to back horrors and nothing I seem to do makes a dent on them.

    I don’t care about “being on the right side of history” after the horrors have gone down, I want to keep this stuff from actually going down, and I don’t know how to get that to happen.

  • DavidS

    No they were white supremacist fascist. Fascim growing out of a reaction to left-wing politics.

  • DavidS

    The Nazi’s weren’t socialist and didn’t promote socialism. Is the Democratic Republic of North Korea, democratic? Is the World Series really a World series?

    What was the phrase Hitler used many times? Make Germany Great Again – sound familiar.

    What is Trump supporting? Greed, his own self-interest, White supremacy, self-absorbed nationalism, more neoliberal capitalism (not a good thing), less support for the poor and vulnerable, deceit, do we need to go on?

  • DavidS

    Except the Nazis weren’t socialists or rabid lefties – they were as far to the right as it’s possible to go.

    There’s also zero evidence the Labour Party hates Jews. Stop believing the lies of the rabid rightwing media.

  • DavidS

    The Nazi’s weren’t socialist in any way , shape or form – please go away, study history and educate yourself. They didn’t bring things into the public sector, they privatised it selling it off to their friends.

    There is zero evidence that the Labour Party hate the Jews. I’ve read this article from the BBC (studies have shown the BBC to have a right-wing bias). and it doesn’t provide any evidence at all. Critcising Zionists, isn’t antisemitism. Corbyn wasn’t talking about or criticising Jews.

  • The destroyer

    None of us would be.the same if we were in WW2

  • David Cohen

    The JW movement was inspired by the Millerite movement. The Millerite movement was a widespread belief among religious ignoramuses of the 19th century that the date of Jesus’ return could be accurately predicted from Biblical clues. When the Millerite’s predictions failed to pan out, there were several reactions. One group redefined when was meant by Jesus’ return and declared the predictions correct. The Seventh Day Adventist movement came from such a group. Another group went back to their notes and set about trying to calculate a new date for Jesus’ return. The JW movement descended from such a group.

    The rejection of the Trinity comes from the same source as the SDA rejection of Sunday as the sabbath. The Millerites were widely denounced by both the Catholic Church and Mainstream Protestant churches. The Millerites concluded that those churches must be hopelessly corrupt, and set out to distance themselves from them as much as possible. The rejection of the doctrine of the Trinity was an extreme effort at this kind of separation.

  • 2ndbone

    Although the Nazi’s stated that they opposed socialism, they controlled manufacturing, they controlled education, they controlled the media, they controlled health-care, etc. Sorry, they were socialists!

  • DavidS

    No they were authoritarian fascists, they ran all those things for their own benefit and the benefit of a small elite, that wasn’t socialism.

  • 2ndbone

    Good point. I shall ruminate.

  • Tim

    For some great insight into what creates the conditions that resulted in Nazi Germany in a modern context, I highly recommend the thought provoking German film, The Wave. (Yes, you will have to put up with subtitles unless you speak German).

  • Tim

    So, they don’t really reject it for theological reasons then?

  • I suffer from several physical disabilities and mental illness / would just try to hide from the Nazis or … I would have been gassed. I am life Unworthy of life … https://media1.giphy.com/media/WERC1NnV4DczK/giphy.gif