What 30 Pieces of Silver Can Buy In Today’s Money

What 30 Pieces of Silver Can Buy In Today’s Money October 16, 2018

The life and ministry of Jesus of Nazareth came to an abrupt and fatal end over a now famous amount of money: 30 pieces of silver. While Judas had spent years of his life following Jesus and urging others to do the same, when he received a tempting offer by those who held power, he had a price.

Thirty pieces of silver.

Many often wonder how much this was actually worth, and it’s an interesting question beyond simple history. I mean, if you’re going to betray your best friend and get him killed, and if it just so happens that your best friend is actually Jesus, one would hope you at least got a good deal out of the whole transaction, no?

So, how much was 30 pieces of silver worth back then? The technical answer is the equivalent of about $200 modern U.S. dollars– not much on the surface, but it was a few months wages and did have significant buying power for someone of lower socioeconomic status in first century Jerusalem.

However, that’s not the question I’m most interested in. The question I’m most curious about is this: if you betrayed Jesus for 30 pieces of silver, what could that buy you in today’s money? Would you at least be getting a better deal than Judas?

From following the recent news cycle and trends within white evangelicalism, I’m pretty sure I’ve discovered the answer to this and can calculate to a near-scientific certainty what 30 pieces of silver would buy in today’s money. Here’s a few of the more interesting or luxurious items I’ve recently seen sell for this precise amount of silver:

It’ll buy you temporary freedom from the eeeeeennnndless burden of seeing immorality and wickedness all around you, because you’ll “magically” stop seeing it when it’s “your guy.”

After spending years and years confronting any and all perceived immorality one can find, it’s understandable a break might be needed. Well, all one needs to do is sell out Jesus and get those thirty 30 pieces of silver– because in today’s money, it can buy the ability to align with someone like Donald Trump regardless of his character or behavior. And thanks to this magic power, one doesn’t even have to plug their nose to do it.

In fact, once that money clears the bank, one will totally (but selectively) forget all the values and morals they’ve spent a lifetime professing. This will enable the purchaser to cozy up as close to Trump as needed in order to gain more and more political power & influence. Morals and values will no longer become a stumbling block between you and your  goals– this magic power will make all those things “irrelevant” at the most convenient times.

At just 30 pieces, this feels like a bargain.

It’ll buy you the ability play the role of a victim without actually having to be one.

Who actually wants to be a victim? Well, we know it’s not conservative white evangelical men. The good news for them is white Christian men are dead last in line when it comes to risk of being an oppressed victim. Ahh, but there’s some downsides to that, apparently.

The good news is that in today’s currency, if you sell out Jesus and get those 30 pieces of silver, it’ll actually buy you the power to play the part of a victim without actually having to experience being one.

Case in point: your guy (the most powerful man in the world) could nominate another guy to become a judge so powerful that he’d literally have to die in order to lose his job. Since they’re both your guys and you have all the power, it’s hard to claim victimhood in that scenario.

Thankfully, in today’s money, 30 pieces of silver will fix that– you’ll get both your guys and get even more powerful, while still being able to parade around as if you’re somehow being oppressed when other people do the same thing you’re busy doing every other day of the week: calling out wickedness and immorality.

Oh, and bonus: playing the victim role from a position of power also has the fringe benefit of making it so that you don’t have to actually see or do anything to help the real ones in your midst.

That’s practically a steal if you ask me.

It’ll buy you a front-row seat to the swearing in ceremony of a Supreme Court Justice.

What good is being able to buy the power to ignore sins obsessed over just the day before, or even achieving victorious control over the third and final branch of government, if you can’t actually sit back and admire your own efforts?

Ahh, that’s a problem that 30 pieces of silver will easily solve– because for this bargain price, it’ll buy you a seat toward the front of the room for a Supreme Court Justice swearing in ceremony so that you can savor the moment. Sorta like Franklin Graham got to experience after his selfless and nonpartisan advocacy for Trump & Kavanaugh (thanks to products previously mentioned):

So, have you read that famous story a thousand times over and wondered what 30 pieces of silver was actually worth? If so, we now know the answer: about $200 bucks.

But Judas didn’t exactly enjoy it– in fact, he was so remorseful over the fact that getting 30 pieces of silver in the first place requires betraying Jesus, that he returned the money and then took his own life. In the end, the money was worth enough to buy a grave.

But 30 pieces of silver in today’s money? Well, that’s a much better deal and will buy you far more than Judas had ever dreamed.

Just ask today’s white evangelical leaders who coined the phrase “character counts” during the Clinton administration but now have permanent parking spots at the Trump White House, and who magically find themselves completely oblivious to the Christian morality they were preaching about just the day before.

Today’s money is a waaaaaay better deal.


unafraid 300Dr. Benjamin L. Corey is a public theologian and cultural anthropologist who is a two-time graduate of Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary with graduate degrees in the fields of Theology and International Culture, and holds a doctorate in Intercultural Studies from Fuller Theological Seminary.

He is also the author of the new book, Unafraid: Moving Beyond Fear-Based Faith, which is available wherever good books are sold. www.Unafraid-book.com.

Corey often writes with a certain degree of snark, but is actually quite likable in real life.

You can follow BLC on Facebook:

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What Are Your Thoughts?leave a comment
  • Traditionally Anabaptists refused more than just government service, they refused citizenship. Our allegiance is to our father in heaven and to no one else. We make no oath to serve any earthly power. We obey the government as it is appointed by God, but we don’t participate. So character aside, I wouldn’t vote for Trump anyway. Yet having come through this last election where none of the candidates have high character, I have seen the wisdom of not voting, or at minimum, refusing to vote for anyone who isn’t of high character. So-called “white evangelicalism” isn’t the source of the problem.

  • Timothy Weston

    That 30 pieces of silver is the final installment. They made the down payment when the Supreme Court told them they could not segregate their schools by color and still have federal funding.

  • otrotierra

    Thank you Dr. Corey for daring to speak prophetic truth. U.S. White Evangelicals still following sexual predators have indeed earned their 30 pieces of silver, along with Judas as their theological father-figure of betrayal and eventual death. These Evangelicals will not be ‘Raptured,’ but will spend the remainder of their days trying and failing to defend and/or obfuscate their deplorable idolatry to the world.

    ETA: Please ignore the fraudulent Disqus accounts that were created for the sole purpose of cyberstalking and harassing. They are so ashamed of their own digital footprint, they hide behind fake accounts set to private. Evangelical Trolls and their Evangelical Enablers sure have earned their reputations:

  • otrotierra

    Let us know when you relinquish your citizenship and its privileges.

    ETA: Please ignore the fraudulent Disqus accounts that were created for the sole purpose of cyberstalking and harassing. They are so ashamed of their own digital footprint, they hide behind fake accounts set to private. Evangelical Trolls and their Evangelical Enablers sure have earned their reputations:

  • Matthew

    Great to see you back writing on the blog.

  • richard

    that 30 pieces of silver also buys a bus ticket around the country to urge christians to get involved in politics as long as it’s a pro LGBT, pro illegal alien stance and anti-republican.
    As bad as the Roman occupation was, Jesus stayed outta politics. we would do well to do the same.

  • Don Lowery

    Funny how little it cost to get their place at the trough. When I used to be Southern Baptist (over 30 years ago)…the worst thing you could be religion-wise is Roman Catholic…but even this meant nothing to these folks. Can’t even stand next to their own racism and own it when they see the headlights of the fame/power the Jesus they claim to follow turned down…but they ran with open arms to molest it with the gusto only they can show.

  • otrotierra

    #ThingsJesusNeverSaid

  • Wild statements of mis-information, invective and nonsense.

  • Yes our allegiance is to our Father but we have a responsibility to be good citizens as well. Voting is a privilege and each person makes up his own mind. There is no proscription against voting. In fact since God decides who wins elections without any voting we would have no elected leaders.

  • Bingo! The real reason for the birth of the Moral Majority!

  • Kinda makes voting meaningless, doesn’t it? If God decides who the winners are, they’re really not “elected.” Gotta love that Calvinism! Makes so much sense!

  • richard

    which ones are pharisees and which are the saducees

  • Not really. We are told God gives us the leaders we deserve and often they are the basest f men. How he does it is the point.

  • Al Cruise

    It’s worse than thirty pieces of silver, white evangelicals bowed down at the feet of satan and asked for the power that Jesus rejected. He gave it to them.

  • otrotierra

    Indeed. And Dr. Corey’s comment section will yet again illustrate the lustful desire of white evangelicals attempting to defend and/or obfuscate their deplorable idolatry. It’s as if they go out of their way to immediately confirm everything we write, as soon as we write it. Will these Evangelicals listen? Let’s observe:

  • David Cohen

    “Do to others as you would have them do to you.”
    – Luke 6:31 (NIV)

    Or is this one of those quotes that only applies at certain times, like Romans 13:1-7?

  • David Cohen

    Contrast it with this quote from the evangelical messiah:

    “It doesn’t matter: we won!”

  • David Cohen

    “We are told God gives us the leaders we deserve and often they are the basest f men.”

    – That will be news to the survivors of all of the brutal dictatorships which have been propped up by the USA.

  • richard

    #whatJesusdidsay

    “”For this reason I say to you, do not be worried about your life, as to what you will eat or what you will drink; nor for your body, as to what you will put on. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothing?”

    ‭‭Matthew‬ ‭6:25‬ ‭NASB‬‬
    http://bible.com/100/mat.6.25.nasb

  • richard
  • Iain Lovejoy

    “Jesus stayed outta politics”
    Not according to the Bible he didn’t. He rode into Jerusalem on a donkey in a direct claim to be the anointed king of Israel, repeatedly attacked, condemned and urged people not to follow the Jewish quisling government, drove out their franchisees from their temple (which was also their seat if government) and set up shop condemning them, and then was finally handed over by them to the occupying power to be executed as a revolutionary.
    How exactly is this “staying outta politics”?

  • otrotierra

    Richard sure is invested in #ThingsJesusNeverSaid.

  • David Cohen

    They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’
    “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’
    “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”
    – Matthew 25:44-46 (NIV)

  • addalled

    It appears Dr Ford took the 30 pieces of silver.

  • richard

    David,
    Do you think Jesus was speaking to the government or to individuals?

    I think we will be looked at for what we each do as inviduals, not for what our government does, even if it’s my tax dollars that enable our government to do what it does.

  • richard

    Iain,
    Jesus never claimed to be an anointed King of Israel. Whenever people tried to elevate Him, He slipped away. His kingdom is not of this world.
    He did criticize the Jewish religious leaders of the time for their hypocrisy and evilness. He wasn’t trying to take over – He was about changing them for the good.
    And yes, the religious leaders of the day did succeed in having him turned over to the governing authorities, requesting His execution, which was granted even though the governing authorities found no wrongdoing. The Romans appeased the Jewish religious leaders.
    Jesus never attempted to overthrow, or even criticize, the Roman occupiers. Religious leaders he criticized immensely, but don’t you think His objective was to save their souls, not to take over ?

    If He wanted to take control, He would’ve done it. He is God.

    Even when Peter said that him and the apostles would prevent His execution, He said “get behind me, Satan”

    Jesus was not about politics – He is about saving souls.

  • David Cohen

    Why do you assume that governments and individuals have different responsibilities? Because The Party says so? The prophets had scathing messages for the members of government who neglected and abused the poor and disadvantaged. And the government of today is, at least in theory, of the people, by the people and for the people.

  • The Mouse Avenger

    What….? :O Really?!

  • The Mouse Avenger

    It’s times like this that I really, REALLY love being a Methodist! ^_^

  • richard

    David,

    I cannot recall where Jesus ever spoke of governmental responsibility.
    As far as the OT stuff, that never worked out very well. With the law, there must be grace.

    We will be judged as individuals, not by what party we support.

  • Just quoting Scripture. Of course it will be news to those who do not read the bible.

    Romans 13:1 “Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.”

    Daniel 4:17
    “This matter is by the decree of the watchers, and the demand by the word of the holy ones: to the intent that the living may know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will, and setteth up over it the basest of men.”

  • David Cohen

    Ah, so portions of the Bible can be ignored for the sake of expediency.

    Its no wonder young people are leaving the church in droves.

  • David Cohen

    I am sure that will be a great comfort to the survivors of the brutal dictatorships which have been propped up by the USA

  • otrotierra

    More evidence of Richard’s devotion to #ThingsJesusNeverSaid.

  • richard

    David, you eat shellfish ? Pork ?
    There is much that is not ignored, but it is there to learn from.
    You’re reaching.

  • David Cohen

    Peter had a vision in Acts chapter 10 in which Jesus assured him that the dietary laws were annulled. Is there a similar passage which frees governments to abuse and neglect the needy?

  • BertB

    Ford put herself and her family at great risk from the nutcases who attack women who call out right wing sexual predators…like the woman in Alabama who had her house burned down after she accused Roy Moore of sexually assaulting her. I shudder to think what would happened to Ford if Kavanaugh had not been confirmed. Her life, and the lives of her family, would have been in danger from right wing crazies.
    Thirty piece of silver? She got nothing but a lot of insults and threats for her actions.

  • BertB

    Aaaaamen, brother!

  • David Miller

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/954161084675374c27e07f972bcbbd61b094fc3019cd688c4b5e9f3e1cb3b2b2.png Not only did churchlings & religionites sell their soul to The Abominable Orange Beast, but they took up The Orange Beast’s number & engraved it upon their hand so they might do The Orange Beast’s bidding & engraved it upon their foreheads that they might think The Orange Beast’s thoughts, that evils be thought as good, that whorishness be thought as chaste, that thieving be thought honesty. And thus it came to pass that they did what wickedness they had to do at The Orange Beast’s bidding to confirm The False Prophet of The Law (Kavanaughty), and had The Orange Beast’s wicked thoughts as their own. So all manners of whoredom, lewdness, pillage & mendacity became The Law of the land. And there shall be much suffering, groaning & gnashing teeth in the land. For churchlings & religionites are besotten with The Orange Beast’s impiety. And the churchlings & religionites became so slavish to The Abominable Orange Beast that they’d even offer it children for captivity.

  • richard

    And here I thought that passage was about gentiles being accepted into the faith.

    As far as governments, now you jump to opinions – which is what many liberals do – the government never does enough, must always do more, according to liberals.

    One of the big differences between conservatives and liberals is conservatives desire a smaller government with more individual freedoms and responsibilities.

    To return, if I may, to the theme of this post, I agree with Mr. Corey that Christian leaders should not align themselves with government. Vote and share the good news. Stay out of politics.

  • David Cohen

    You thought Peter was a gentile? Maybe you should stop thumping your Bible and actually read it.

    As far as governments go, refresh my memory, was it liberals who created the PATRIOT Act? Was it liberals who appealed to big daddy government to keep people of the same sex from marrying? Is it liberals who are closing polling places and putting up obstacles for voters, in spite of the dearth of evidence that such measures are needed? That small government and individual responsibility propaganda sure sounds nice on AM radio, but it doesn’t hold up under a minute of critical scrutiny.

    And as far as Christian leaders staying out of politics, brother that ship sailed a LOOOONG time ago. Evangelical Christianity and conservative politics have been in bed together for decades. Now it is jut a matter of calling attention to the unholy monster they have spawned together.

  • richard

    Come on, David.
    Peter’s dream about unclean animals was God’s way of notifying Peter that Gentiles were part of HIs salvation. Where does Peter say dietary laws were changed as a result of his dream ?

    And I said conservatives desire a smaller, less intrusive government. As The Rolling Stones said though, you don’t always get what you want.

    And as far as Christian leaders in politics, you are correct, but that doesn’t make it right. For any side.

  • David Cohen

    And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat. But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean. And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.
    – Acts 10:13-15 (KJV)

    Seems pretty straightforward, but if you have to interpret the passage with an eye for expediency rather than truth, well, its not as if I can stop you.

    So you admit that the conservative dream of smaller and less intrusive government does not conform with reality. Do you enjoy being lied to or are you willing to take part in their lies for the sake of self-enrichment?

    And as far as Christian leaders go, here you are on a progressive Christian website singing the praises of conservative government and saying “you bad progressives need to keep YOUR religion out of politics!” I would cite what Jesus had to say about hypocrites, but I expect you already have Party approved apologetics on hand to deal with that.

  • richard

    If you continue reading, David, you find that Peter interpreted his dream completely different. But if you want to interpret his dream differently, well, it’s not as if I can stop you.

    As far as conservatives and their stated desires not conforming to reality, I don’t feel lied to. Perhaps without them holding the liberals in check we’d really be in a pickle.

    I don’t single out progressive Christians when I state that Christian priorities should be gospel oriented rather than politically oriented. That’s for all Christians.

    What could be construed as hypocritical though is a Christian complaining about evangelicals aligning with one political party while aligning oneself with another.
    What’s that about a speck in your brother’s eye ?

  • Iain Lovejoy

    “Messiah” means “the anointed one”. You plainly have almost no understanding of the Bible.

  • richard

    Anointed as Savior, not as king of Israel.

    And why so mean ?

  • Herm

    … the Sadducee diligently studied the Law … the Pharisees diligently studied the the Law and the Prophets … among them is one who diligently studied the art of the con … none came to Jesus to have life.

  • Markus R

    How ironic. In attempting to smear Trump, you ended up smearing Jesus Christ. In a more same day, we would properly call this blasphemy.

  • LastManOnEarth

    So does this god have a mind-control raygun that he zaps voters entering the polls or does he monkey with the vote counting machines?

    Or maybe thar book is just wrong about it.

  • Iain Lovejoy

    Only if you think Trump is God’s representative on Earth… What was that about blasphemy again?

  • addalled

    She offered zero evidence but she will likely get a million dollar book deal and future speaking fees.

  • Vlacka2

    I’m sure that’ll make up for all the violent death threats you feral thugs have sent her way.

  • Statistics Palin

    The souls of every white, conservative Evangelical and Mormon.

  • He is like a Democrat. He messes with the machine and blames it on Russia.

  • David Cohen

    Since when has zero evidence been a problem for the “lock her up” crowd?

  • addalled

    And the Senators who voted for him haven’t gotten threats?

  • Just-a-me

    In regards transgender bathroom policy, Benjamin Corey said, “They’re just trying to freaking pee.”

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/after-alleged-sexual-assault-officials-open-investigation-of-transgender-bathroom-policy/2018/10/09/431e7024-c7fd-11e8-9b1c-a90f1daae309_story.html
    I guess this kindergartner was just trying to freaking pee.

    A kindergarten girl was assaulted because politicians, like you, put their convenience above the safety of this girl.

    This combined with your stupid piece here in which Ford was given ample opportunity to provide corroborative evidence and yet you still presume guilt tells me you’ve no interest in being truthful. You don’t worship Truth, Corey.

  • Just-a-me

    What topic has zero evidence? Comey admitted she was “grossly negligent” with classified information yet redrafted as “extremely careless” to avoid the criminality of the former.

  • Just-a-me

    Cause they have hate in their heart and so they’re trying to let it out.

  • Just-a-me

    Wut? He’s exactly making the claim that Jesus never said anything about being King of Israel.
    You’re saying he’s invest in #ThingsJesusNeverSaid, thus you’re saying he’s invest in the Jesus never said that he never said…

  • Just-a-me

    Why? This blog is garbage. It’s like saying to MJ (though Corey was never that good), “Good to see you back in the NBA.”

  • SamHamilton

    Thank you Mr. Corey for continuing to call out those Christian leaders who believed character mattered when it was the Clintons in question, but conveniently decided it doesn’t matter when it comes to President Trump. It’s one thing to hold your nose and vote for someone of low character because you think his or her policies will be better than the other person’s, but it’s another to say that the person’s low character isn’t that big a deal or to actively go out and promote someone of low character.

  • SamHamilton

    Do you really think Ms. Ford went public with her accusations for personal gain?

  • Just-a-me

    Yes.

  • Just-a-me

    Well, Bill Clinton lied under oath.
    Trump transacted for Daniels to be quiet, not illegal.
    No one is saying one of these is of morally good character; they’re saying on was criminal.
    Trump’s accusations of assault, however, LIKE Kavanaugh’s have not bee corroborated or proven.

    Obama murdered a teen American without due process because he didn’t like his terrorist father.
    And yet you want to worry about sex; give me a break.

  • SamHamilton

    Richard,
    If you mean “stayed outta politics” to mean that Jesus didn’t try to become a political ruler or seek political power over others, that is true. Jesus was not interested in controlling others through the force of worldly law. He didn’t have much to say about or to the Roman authorities of the time. Christians should take a cue from this reticence to seek power over others.

    But what Jesus said and did certainly had political implications in that he instructed his followers and the people around him how to structure a society that was more just. He also had a lot to say to Jewish leaders of his time about how they were using the law. Using the broad meaning of the term “politics” as the methods by which communities structure their governance (rather than the narrow definition of campaigns, voting, etc.), this certainly was political.

  • Just-a-me

    “it can buy the ability to align with someone like Donald Trump regardless of his character or behavior. And thanks to this magic power, one doesn’t even have to plug their nose to do it.”
    Susan Collins was mailed ricin, for God’s sake.

    “you’ll get both your guys and get even more powerful”
    Where have you been in not seeing that the Democrat Supreme Court has created law (which is unconstitutional) under Democrat President? Case in point: gay marriage.
    No, we’ve finally gotten power after dealing with horrendous legislation for 8 years like Obamacare.

    “It’ll buy you a front-row seat to the swearing in ceremony of a Supreme Court Justice.”
    So? What’s the crime in attending a swearing in ceremony?

  • David Cohen

    (Don’cha just love how they play ignorant when they are cornered?)

    The Republican led congress investigated Hillary Clinton for years, and yet there was no indictment. Please, spare me the protests that she really is guilty of…something. The fact is THERE WAS NO INDICTMENT. Whether this was because the GOP wanted to keep the case going in order to make her look bad, or if they knew there was no enough evidence for an indictment is debatable.

    Of course, none of this makes any difference to the GOP, who have made “lock her up” their unofficial chant. Apparently the GOP has decided that they can dispense with convictions, trials and even indictments when it comes to their political opponents.

    What? You think I am exaggerating? The chants have recently cropped up at Dolt 45’s rallies in reference to Senator Feinstein. What exactly is the excuse for that?

    So please, don’t come to us whining about “zero evidence.” You have made it clear that due process is a non-issue for you.

  • Just-a-me

    “The fact is THERE WAS NO INDICTMENT.”
    Two things:
    1) Comey’s original memo stated “gross negligence”. This is a crime.

    2) If the fact that there is no indictment means she’s not guilty, then OK: Kavanaugh is innocent and so is Trump.
    So, quit bitchin’
    #movethegoalposts

  • SamHamilton

    The most recent news story on Tina Johnson’s house fire I’ve been able to find is this one:
    http://www.al.com/news/index.ssf/2018/03/cause_of_fire_at_moore_accuser.html

    The authorities say the cause of the fire is undetermined. They don’t know whether it was arson or an accident (she kept lighter fluid in the part of the home where the fire started). And even if it was arson, they don’t know the motive. We don’t know enough about this incident to attribute the fire to someone upset by her accusations against Roy Moore.

    Unfortunately, there are crazies on the right and the left who are willing to engage in violence over political issues. People need to tone down the rhetoric. Christians should be the first ones to do so.

  • David Cohen

    “Susan Collins was mailed ricin, for God’s sake.”
    – And that is illegal. Your point here was…?

    “Where have you been in not seeing that the Democrat Supreme Court has
    created law (which is unconstitutional) under Democrat President? Case
    in point: gay marriage.
    – You apparently have no idea what the Obergefell ruling was all about. It did not create any laws. It just determined that states cannot arbitrarily forbid adults from engaging in the legal contract of marriage for no other reason than the sex of said adults. Kind of like how the Supreme Court said that the Southern states could not arbitrarily forbid adults from engaging in the legal contract of marriage because of their ethnicity.

    “No, we’ve finally gotten power after dealing with horrendous legislation for 8 years like Obamacare.”
    – I realize this might not have penetrated your protective bubble, but the ACA has become rather popular of late.

    “So? What’s the crime in attending a swearing in ceremony?”
    – In the immortal words of your messiah ‘It doesn’t matter if Dr. Ford is telling the truth. We won.’ The conservative messiah is bragging about a post-truth supreme court he has created and you and yours are applauding.

  • Just-a-me

    Even if we did, SamHamilton, it also matters whether or not she’s lying.

  • SamHamilton

    Those who criticized President Clinton’s character faults were concerned about far more than legality. If legality is all that concerns you, that’s fine. But Clinton’s critics were focused on far more than that – rightly so, in my opinion.

  • David Cohen

    1) So you admit that indictments are not important then, at least for Dolt 45’s opponents

    2) Wow, did you miss the point. No one was seriously calling for Kavanaugh to be locked up. You people are LITERALLY calling for Mrs. Clinton and Mrs. Feinstein to be locked up. As I noted before, due process is clearly only important to conservatives when they are called on their misdeeds.

  • SamHamilton

    Of course.

  • David Cohen

    Congratulations on fiding none case you can exploit. Now let’s look at the big picture.

    https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/no-link-between-trans-inclusive-policies-bathroom-safety-study-finds-n911106

  • Just-a-me

    “And that is illegal. Your point here was…?”
    It’s immoral David, but Corey “aligns” with this criminal.

    Obergefell
    “As a matter of constitutional law, the Obergefell decision was indefensible. Justice Anthony Kennedy led the majority in playing philosopher-kings, rather than being judges. They believed that same-sex marriage should be legally recognized, and so they invented a constitutional requirement for it.”
    http://thefederalist.com/2018/06/28/3-years-experience-proved-obergefell-big-mistake/

    “but the ACA has become rather popular of late.”
    Lol, no it really hasn’t; the utopic vision of free, good quality health care is popular–not the ACA.

    “In the immortal words of your messiah ‘It doesn’t matter if Dr. Ford is telling the truth. We won.'”
    Is that what you do? Put words in people’s mouths?
    He actually said, “It doesn’t matter. We won.”
    The statement wasn’t even in reference to her truthfulness; it was about him mimicking Ford and whether or not he accused her of lying….not whether or not she lied.

  • Just-a-me

    It’s not exploitation; conservatives said this would happen well in advance. And then immediately there were a host of abuses of this law:
    like a guy walking in a Seattle locker room,
    a man who assaulted women, identified as a woman, got put in a women’s prison, assaulted women prisoners
    and this one.
    Your study just goes to marginalize these victims.

  • Just-a-me

    Yeah, right Sam Hamilton. Just like David Cohen above “there was no indictment!”
    At this point, repubs just aren’t listening because Dems were hypocritical about this very subject for decades.

  • Just-a-me

    1) Stupid assumption from which the implication does not flow from the statement.

    2) “No one was seriously calling for Kavanaugh to be locked up.”
    Nah, but ruining his life is reasonable.

    “and Mrs. Feinstein to be locked up.”
    Stay on subject, Cohen. She wasn’t mentioned in the thread.

  • David Cohen

    – So…you are saying that Corey approves of an act of terrorism? Where in the world did you get that from?

    – Oh an opinion piece from the Federalist, no bias there (rolls eyes.) Outside of your protective bubble, people have realized that the apocalyptic hysteria conservatives relied on in their opposition to marriage equality was a lie, and that marriages between people of the same sex are really no big deal.
    https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/no-link-between-trans-inclusive-policies-bathroom-safety-study-finds-n911106

    – Let’s see what the data says, shall we?
    https://www.kff.org/interactive/kaiser-health-tracking-poll-the-publics-views-on-the-aca/#?response=Favorable–Unfavorable&aRange=twoYear

    – (Notice how fans of Dolt 45 need to work overtime to make him look good after his true nature is revealed.)

  • addalled

    Yes

  • Iain Lovejoy

    What you have there is one case which it has been alleged that there was an assault by a boy which the school’s bathroom policy had something to do with, but which both the school and local education and social services have investigated and deny.
    This complete acceptance of an unsupported allegation of an assault is startlingly juxtaposed with your final paragraph where you complain about “presumed guilt” of another sexual assault where it is convenient for you to deny anything happened at all.
    I don’t think it’s Dr Corey that has a flexible attitude to the truth.

  • David Cohen

    The people who fought against the Violence Against Women Act are talking about marginalizing victims?!? Uhm, yeah, sure…

    The study provides a big picture of the situation. This defies the conservative tendency to fixate on a few isolated cases (often grossly exaggerated beyond the facts) and try to portray them as an accurate view of the situation. I am old enough to remember when conservatives did this to try and keep “coloreds” out of public bathroom to “protect the virtue of White women.”

    Have you got anything besides a few scary stories?

  • Just-a-me

    “So…you are saying that Corey approves of an act of terrorism? Where in the world did you get that from?”
    David, stay on point. Approve and align are not the same thing. Regarding “align” (the word I quoted) I used Corey’s manner of speaking:
    “Well, all one needs to do is sell out Jesus and get those thirty 30 pieces of silver– because in today’s money, it can buy the ability to align with someone like Donald Trump regardless of his character or behavior. ”

    “and that marriages between people of the same sex are really no big deal.”
    This doesn’t matter, the Supreme Court does not have the power to make law. They have the power to interpret law; it is the legislative branch’s job to determine law. They became an unconstitutional law-making body under progressives.

  • David Cohen

    1) So now suggesting there should be an indictment before calling for someone to be locked up is “stupid?” Folks, if we needed any more convincing about how dangerous conservatism has become in our country, Just-a-me has provided it.

    2) “Nah, but ruining his life is reasonable.” So potential misdeeds should never be mentioned, as long as the accused is a conservative then?

    “Stay on subject, Cohen. She wasn’t mentioned in the thread.”
    – Sorry, but the films are out there confirming this. Your side owns it, even if it makes you look like hypocrites.

  • Just-a-me

    “The people who fought against the Violence Against Women Act are talking about marginalizing victims?!”
    Yes, telling little Dorothy not to feel bad; she’d have been molested regardless of bathroom policy is marginalization.

    “The study provides a big picture of the situation.”
    He’d never have been in that bathroom otherwise.

    “This defies the conservative tendency to fixate on a few isolated cases”
    You hear that Dorothy? That’s called marginalization.

    “Have you got anything besides a few scary stories?”
    You hear that Dorothy? That’s called marginalization.

  • David Cohen

    – Uhm, yeah, still not seeing your point. Your desperation is really showing,

    – And, again, in spite of whatever propaganda you rely on the fact is that no new laws were made. Existing laws were ruled unconstitutional and struck down, and all the “no’s” from you and yours will not change that fact.

  • David Cohen

    Because who needs indictments, let’s just lock ’em up!

  • Just-a-me

    1) You’re making assumptions about me, David. Stay on point. That’s what’s stupid.
    2) I didn’t say this; is that what you do? Put words in people’s mouth?

  • Just-a-me

    You said it, not me. Is that what you do, put words in peoples’ mouths?

  • David Cohen

    Still not willing to own your hypocrisy then.

  • Just-a-me

    “Uhm, yeah, still not seeing your point.”
    Of this, I have no doubt.

    “Existing laws were ruled unconstitutional and struck down”
    Existing laws [given by the Legislative Branch] were ruled unconstitutional. The Judicial Branch, however, does not create these laws unlike here with Obergefell.

  • BertB

    I hope so. She’s gonna need the money for bodyguards.

  • Just-a-me

    “What you have there is one case which it has been alleged that there was an assault by a boy which the school’s bathroom policy had something to do with”
    Oh I get it, don’t believe the victim? Or is it the woman? Or, oh it doesn’t matter…she’s both.

  • SamHamilton

    Character is more than just whether or not someone was shown to have been or convicted of breaking a law. President Clinton didn’t break any laws when he had sex with an intern or granted last minute pardons to political allies and donors. Donald Trump didn’t break any laws when he objectified his own daughter or bragged about groping women or made stuff up about Ted Cruz’s father. Hillary Clinton didn’t break any laws when her family and their Foundation profited from her position as Sec. of State. But these types of things all reflect on the character of these individuals. Focusing on whether laws were broken is besides the point. Just because some on the left focus on the legality doesn’t mean that should be the standard for Christians.

  • SamHamilton

    From the looks of it, this study didn’t provide a big picture. It focused on three towns in Massachusetts over the course of a year. I understand there’s just not a lot of data to examine at this point, but I think it’d be hard to say that this one, limited study is the definitive word on whether adopting policies allowing anyone to use the bathroom of his or her choice will reduce safety and privacy.

  • David Cohen

    “Of this, I have no doubt.”

    – Yes, you do seem to make good use of vagueness.

    “Existing laws [given by the Legislative Branch] were ruled unconstitutional. ”
    – This is one of the functions of the supreme court

    “The Judicial Branch, however, does not create these laws unlike here with Obergefell.”
    – And no new laws were…oh forget it. You’re never going to get this, are you? That line of propaganda is just too juicy for you to let go if.

  • Just-a-me

    “President Clinton didn’t break any laws when he had sex with an intern”
    No, but Clinton wasn’t on trail for Lewinsky.
    He was on trial for allegations from Paula Jones which then expanded to an investigation of the Lewinsky relationship–during which, under oath, he lied.

    “Just because some on the left focus on the legality doesn’t mean that should be the standard for Christians.”
    Stay on point, Sam. We weren’t talking about Christians in this post. We we’re talking about (your words), “Those who criticized President Clinton’s character faults were concerned about far more than legality.”

  • Just-a-me

    It’s refuted by the victimization of only one person on principle that a man would not be “acceptably” in the “private vicinity” of women if not for the law. We created a risk.

  • SamHamilton

    Yes, I am talking about Christians. Go back and reread my original comments. I (and Mr. Corey) are talking about Christian leaders who thought character mattered when it came to the Clintons but who decided it didn’t when it came to Trump. Those are the people to which I was referring when I said “Clinton’s critics were focused…”.

    I realize that President Clinton was being investigated re: the accusations by Paula Jones. My point is that even if he hadn’t lied under oath, his character would still be questionable because of these other, legal yet morally wrong, things that he did. Character is more than just what you’ve been proven guilty of in a court of law.

  • Just-a-me

    “”Existing laws [given by the Legislative Branch] were ruled unconstitutional. ”
    – This is one of the functions of the supreme court”
    Duh.

    “And no new laws were”
    Yes, they were. They determined unilaterally that all states must honor same-sex marriage, but civil marriage (and its definition) is a matter of state law.

  • Just-a-me

    Fair enough; I misread you. Good word, Sam.

  • Ron McPherson

    “This blog is garbage.”

    And yet you’re actively participating in it?

  • Just-a-me

    I’m here for the lost sheep.

  • Ron McPherson

    Oh great, that now makes 10,001

  • Just-a-me

    But others mocking said, “They are filled with new wine.”

  • Ron McPherson

    So you’re defending American conservativism and likening it to the gospel of Jesus being preached at Pentecost in an unknown language. Pretty much says it all I guess.

  • Just-a-me

    “So you’re defending American conservativism”
    Is that what you do? Put words in peoples’ mouths?
    I merely said this blog is garbage.

  • Ron McPherson

    “Is that what you do? Put words in peoples’ mouths? I merely said this blog is garbage.”

    Um, no that’s not what you just ‘merely’ said. I made a point that you are actively participating on a blog you deem to be garbage, to which you then stated that you are here “for the lost sheep,” followed by a reference to Acts 2:13.

  • Just-a-me

    It does not follow that I’m defending American conservatism.

  • Ron McPherson

    Well, you’ve been going on about a Democratic Supreme Court, complaining about the legalization of same sex marriage, transgender restrooms, and Obamacare. So how is this about saving the lost sheep and not conservative politics?

  • Vlacka2

    Those aren’t worth a single piece of silver, much less 30.

  • Just-a-me

    “you’ve been going on about a Democratic Supreme Court”
    No, I was pointing out that the Repubs are just now taking power from the Dems–which Corey tries to ignore by calling them the powerful while claiming to be victims….they were victimized by a Democrat judiciary before coming to power. But Corey wants to ignore this because he doesn’t love people or truth. He’s a hate-filled man.

    “complaining about the legalization of same sex marriage”
    No, I was pointing out that it was unconstitutional what the Democratic judiciary did.
    But Dave Cohen is a hate-filled man.

    “transgender restrooms”
    No, I’ve complained about the nonsense transgender issue. A kindergarten girl is a victim that would’ve never been.
    A few female inmates are victims that’d never have been had it not been for LGBT oppression.
    Corey, in this regard, chooses not to love the innocent victims that conservatives consistently said would become victims.

    “Obamacare”
    It made healthcare costs go up making promises it can’t deliver. It’s not loving.

    However, this is defense of American conservatism. It is me telling Corey and his readers that they are choosing to hate others.

  • Ron McPherson

    “It is me telling Corey and his readers that they are choosing to hate others”

  • PedasiPaul

    The religious right is letting the ends justify the tawdry means. “͞In the long run, the ends often fail to justify the means, and instead the means tend to contaminate the ends.” ~ Roy Baumeister

  • Just-a-me

    What government is abusing the needy?
    I wasn’t aware that government was ever admonished to not neglect the needy. I’ve noted that God’s people are to care for the needy, but not the government.

  • Just-a-me

    “Why do you assume that governments and individuals have different responsibilities?”
    Because government are given the sword for power; that’s at least one responsibility that is different between governments and individuals.

  • Just-a-me

    “‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’ ”
    Who’s he talking to? Because the U.S. and particularly conservatives religious folks like evangelicals are the most generous group of people in the world by total amounts of charity.
    https://www.quora.com/Which-party-members-make-more-charitable-contributions-Republicans-or-Democrats#

  • LastManOnEarth

    I see.

    Next time you talk with them please tell them to keep their grubby little fingers out of our democracy, mkay?

  • I interacted with Christ as the consciousness of the Sun. I wrote an ebook about it that is free to download in pdf form, and it is also available on blogger, links are below:

    link to my free ebook, “Messages from the Sun God, Jesus Christ”
    http://www.mediafire.com/file/riox16d87g86626/Messages_10.pdf/file

    link to the ebook on blogger: https://messagesftsg.blogspot.com/

    blog http://www.jesuschristsungod.com

  • pen44

    Or an Evangelical Lutheran, since the evangelical branch of the Lutheran tree is quite liberal.

  • pen44

    You nailed it, David Cohen!! I see nothing Christian in this Repugnant evangelical stand, in fact they do the exact opposite of what Jesus said, taught and commanded!!

  • Martha Anne Underwood

    We definitely don’t worship the same Messiah. Mine loves unconditionally no matter what color you are or whether you are gay or straight. Mine says all people are created equal. Mine expects me to care for others who need it without first ascertaining if they are deserving.

  • Vlacka2

    Same as it ever was. At least Pat Robertson has been honest enough to admit that the torture and dismemberment of a human being is nothing compared to the billions of dollars the US gets from the Saudis.

  • Just-a-me

    “Mine loves unconditionally no matter what color you are or whether you are gay or straight”
    But yours doesn’t love those who have “too much stuff” as determined by you, Martha Anne Underwood; so you force them to give up some of it.

    “Mine expects me to care for others who need it”
    Then why do you force doctors to care for others even if government reimbursement rates are a pittance?
    Why do you force those with too much stuff, as determined by you, to give up some of it in the name of welfare?
    You see, that’s not caring for others who need it. That’s forcing other people (that you, Martha Anne Underwood, think have too much stuff) to care for others who you, Martha Anne Underwood, think need it.

  • Everett Kier Jr

    Wow Mr. Corey, I find your accusations sad and boring.

  • PedasiPaul

    So human rights don’t matter as much as profits from selling weapons so the Saudis can continue their genocidal war in Yemen. That’s what Jesus would do for sure!

  • Ron McPherson

    “Why do you force those with too much stuff, as determined by you, to give up some of it in the name of welfare.”

    I’m pretty sure Martha doesn’t determine the U.S. tax rate. Anyways, which bothers you more? Your taxes funding welfare programs or your taxes funding additional bombs?

  • Just-a-me

    “I’m pretty sure Martha doesn’t determine the U.S. tax rate.”
    Fine, I’ll revise:
    Why do you support forcing those with….

    “Anyways, which bothers you more? Your taxes funding welfare programs or your taxes funding additional bombs?”
    Yes.

  • otrotierra

    If you have a cogent counter-argument in response to Dr. Corey’s insightful commentary, I wonder why you don’t share it.

    ETA: Please ignore the fraudulent Disqus accounts that were created for the sole purpose of cyberstalking and harassing. They are so ashamed of their own digital footprint, they hide behind fake accounts set to private. Evangelical Trolls and their Evangelical Enablers sure have earned their reputations:

  • Everett Kier Jr

    a dog can always whip a skunk….usually it just isn’t worth it and the longer I read articles on this web site the and see the prejudice the less I am even tempted to waste the timel.

  • otrotierra

    Thank you for confirming that you do not have a cogent counter-argument in response to Dr. Corey’s insightful commentary.

  • Everett Kier Jr

    Wow you can’t follow the logic! Let me try again…..It is an exercise in futility to carry on a conversation assuming logic when there is no commitment to any logic other than blind hatred

  • otrotierra

    You have now had three opportunities to present a logical counter-argument in response to Dr. Corey, and you have failed to do so each time. It is clear you don’t have a counter-argument, and you’re unable to explain why we should listen to you instead of Dr. Benjamin Corey. Each time you post here, you only strengthen Dr. Corey’s argument and further prove my point.

    ETA: Please ignore the fraudulent Disqus accounts that were created for the sole purpose of cyberstalking and harassing. They are so ashamed of their own digital footprint, they hide behind fake accounts set to private. Evangelical Trolls and their Evangelical Enablers sure have earned their reputations:

  • Dave-n-TN

    Thanks for this link … an very interesting read and confirms my suspicions about the big Moral Majority’s motives at the time. Simply, it was all about power with a bait and switch scheme to gain support.

  • Wesley

    Roe was decided during the Nixon administration and it was Republican appointed judges to decided to strike down all abortion ban law with the decent coming from the lone democratic appointment. Kelo was decided in 2005 during the Bush administration to declare that private property rights are only valid until the state decides that it could use your private property to increase tax revenue. in fact Connecticut’s lawyers went so far to say that they state reserved to right to tax the property of a motel six to give it to a luxury hotel chain meaning Donald Trump. it is no wonder he loves that decision. it was a Republican administration in Connecticut that started the whole lawsuit chain to start with. just watch The Little Pink House. if memory serves me correctly Kelo was decided with just two democratic appointments on the court, which means it was Republicans that decided the case. two Republican appointed judges gave us Obergerfell in the first place a Bush appointee to bring marriage into the federal courts and Kennedy, a Reagan appointee, headed down the decision first striking down the federal law allowing the states to decided the definition of marriage and then two years later he violated his own statement to force “same-sex marriage” on the nation. Kavenaugh is not the strike constitutionalist he is painted to be. in fact he would most likely burn these Evangelicals given his horrendous track-record on 4th and 5th amendment to the US Constitution. i found it ironic that the attacks on his due process rights are the very same rights he does not really care about unless it was himself. Sueter was appointed by George H W Bush, Kennedy and O’Conner were appointed by Ronald Reagan, and John Paul Stevens was appointed by Gerald Ford all Republican Presidents. you have to go all the way back to FDR and Truman to have a Democratic controlled Supreme Court for the GOP has controlled the court since the end of the Eisenhower administration.

  • Just-a-me

    Roe v wade was a Democrat court 5-4.
    Regarding the republican president, it shouldn’t matter what party he was if the SC is an independent, coequal branch of government. I can see why youd want to throw that specious association in there though.
    Regarding behavior under Bush, well there’s a reason their whole family voted Democrat, because they’re tyrants too.
    And everyone knew Kavanaugh was the worst pick of the top 3; but trump threw a bone to the deep state this time. Probably to avoid assassination.

  • Iain Lovejoy

    Makeup of court in Roe v Wade:
    R: Burger, Blackmum, Stewart, Powell, Rhenquist
    D: Douglas, Brennan, Marshall, White
    (And the two dissenters were Rehnquist and White)
    You obviously don’t let facts get in the way of your fantasyland – as your last post also indicates.

  • Please point to the examples of blind hatred in the article.

  • Just-a-me

    Powell was a Democrat.

  • Iain Lovejoy

    You’re right, sorry. He was however Republican-appointed, beng appointed by Nixon (as indeed was another Democrat, Brennan, making 6 out of the 9 Justices Republican-appointed) which is what confused me, and Powell is also reckoned to have been judicially a conservative, apparently. All bar one of the Republican justices found for the Claimant Roe, same as all bar one of the Democrats, with one each of the Democrats and the Republicans dissenting.

  • Just-a-me

    “He was however Republican-appointed, beng appointed by Nixon”
    This is true but would be an argument suggesting Republicans are less concerned with partisan politics.

    In addition, conservative is not synonymous with Republican…as evidenced by the Bush’s.

    All that being said, it shouldnt matter who the President is that appoints a judiciary; they are to be an independent and equal co-branch of government. However, it was clear with Obama that this judiciary was not deciding constitutionality of law; it was making law which usurps the legislative branch. Obama’s picks share this unconstitutional view, and thus they are not originalists; this also why Kavanaugh is a scrappy choice. He’s a Bush-ite judge, which many conservatives (not republicans) have said and lamented.

  • Evidence?

  • Your disapproval functions as a profound endorsement.

  • “Prophetic truth” – blasphemy.
    “White Evangelicals” – racist.
    “Raptured” – no biblical understanding.
    “Idolatry” – describes many comments on this site.
    Basically your endorsement is profoundly misguided.

  • “There is no proscription against voting.”

    This is true. It is a matter of conscience. There are, however, some practical problems.

    First, any elected Christians are required to take an oath to uphold the constitution. If doing so violates the biblical precepts then they face sinning: either by violating the biblical precept or by breaking their oath. So public office is generally incompatible with being a Christian. I want to vote for a Christian who would resign before breaking their oath or compromising biblical principles. This is what I meant when I said candidates of high character. None of my candidates hold themselves to this standard.

    Second, Jesus was decidedly anti-political. Whenever he was pushed in that direction, he chose not to involve himself. Considering the hate that is spread on political forums, I think Jesus’ example is the best one for most people, although certainly some people are called into those mission fields.

  • “…without any voting we would have no elected leaders”

    This is obviously not true, because the non-Christians would still vote. Regardless, why would this be a problem? Christians are not instructed to influence elections, determine monarchs, or otherwise rule. They are called to make disciples, to love, and to serve. Indeed, Christians exist in all political systems, including brutal totalitarian and authoritarian regimes where they have no power. If you think that God needs Christian voters’ help, then you don’t believe that he appoints leaders.

  • Ok. What if anything does our constitution require that violates biblical precepts? I am not so sure public office per se is incompatible is holding office. Abortion comes to mind but that is now the law and it is an individual choice. I know pastors who will vote to lower taxes if they have the chance.

    When Jesus returns He will establish the Government of God on earth. Until then our constitution is an imperfect but plausible copy.

  • “Insightful commentary” Really.
    “…Judas…, when he received a tempting offer by those who held power, he had a price. Thirty pieces of silver… worth back then… a few months wages …” Who believes that Judas pointed out Jesus for this trivial money?

    One sided political bias stated as if it has some relationship to Judas.
    “Donald Trump regardless of his character or behavior.” Judgmental slur.
    “cozy up… to Trump…to gain more and more political power” Comment without justification.
    “white Christian men are dead last in line when it comes to risk of being an oppressed victim.” People in this country are not victims of anything.
    “30 pieces of silver will … buy you a seat… for a Supreme Court Justice swearing in ceremony..” Slur without basis in reality.

    If this passes for insightful commentary Progressives are in trouble.

  • addalled

    How else to explain what she did? She will likely get a book deal and future speaking fees far exceeding 30 pieces of silver.

  • apoxbeonyou

    “likely” != “evidence”

  • addalled

    And absolutely ZERO evidence that Kavanaugh did what she alleged. But we are using new standards for “evidence” now…right? So using the new standards then it is very likely that Ford did this for money.

  • How else to explain what she did?

    Uh, she was actually attacked in the manner she described, and reported truthfully?

    I despair talking to fools.

  • addalled

    Really? So you have evidence she was attacked? Please post that information.

  • So, hold on a second. Are you saying that there needs to be independent evidence before it is possible that a person is telling the truth about an event from the past?

    You? A Christian? Are arguing that evidence is necessary before we take past reports seriously?

    Think hard before you answer.

  • addalled

    Nowadays we are told that the accusation IS the evidence. One person claimed that Kavanaugh assaulted her with ZERO evidence. That’s proof. Right?

  • richard

    you left a part out – she reported 30 years later. big difference. and if your memory is so good that you remember who, but you don’t remember where, when, or how you got home, something is suspect.

    I wonder who counseled her to go forward with partial memories, no evidence, and no corroboration?
    it was bad advice, unless she also realized she would get a book deal with her unsubstantiated accusations.

  • The only thing that is suspect is your understanding of trauma and how memory functions.

  • I’ll take that as an admission you don’t believe in the claims of your religion.

  • addalled

    Oh I didn’t realize you were in a hurry to change the subject. But yes I believe in the claims of my “religion”.

  • So your criticism of Ford is garbage, then.

  • I read your book. You put a lot of time and effort into it. Godspeed…

  • Just-a-me

    “Are you saying that there needs to be independent evidence before it is possible that a person is telling the truth about an event from the past?”
    Um, addalled did not say that in response. He/she asked, “So you have evidence she was attacked?”

    Which was to your response that, “The only thing that is suspect is your understanding of trauma and how memory functions.”

    But, how is it not suspect when, of all people Ford named at the party none corroborated that there even was such a party in which they and Ford were together.

  • Add yourself to the pile of people proudly ignorant about how memory functions.

  • Just-a-me

    No thanks, but you can add me. It still makes you a $#!tty debater.

    A quirk in memory function doesn’t lend blind credibility to invalidated claims. They remain, unlike as you’d suggest, “suspect”.

  • richard

    And you say YOU despair talking to fools.

    Imagine how I feel.

  • Fools are usually pretty blissful, especially when wallowing in the mud.

    So you probably feel fine.

  • apoxbeonyou

    Since you don’t respond coherently to others requests, I’ll offer you none. Have a nice life!

  • “What if anything does our constitution require that violates biblical precepts?”

    If you are elected to the judicial or executive branch, you are tasked under the constitution with upholding laws that you find unjust, but constitutional. In short, no Christian can be in either branch without putting politics before biblical principles. They all compromise their principles.

    If you are elected to the legislative branch, you could possibly last longer. But you’ll have to vote against a great many pieces of legislation (all of them?), including spending bills that your party supports because they almost certainly finance immoral legislation. If you’re voting against everything on principle, you’ll be violating the spirit of your oath: to serve the country. Ultimately, you can’t serve two masters:

    Consider Jesus’ commandments against violence. You’ll have a constitutional duty to protect the country, which almost certainly means putting Christian brother against Christian brother. This would be in violation of Matthew 18’s required approach to conflict resolution. Even more generally, the biblical prohibition against shedding blood is unambiguous, even when justified (e.g. David and the temple). Even if you can figure out a way around this, the 2nd amendment is incompatible with Jesus’ teaching. Abortion, as you mentioned, is justified on constitutional grounds which you are duty bound to uphold unless the judicial branch overturns it. There are many other conflicts…

    In short, it’s questionable why any Christian would even seek to hold office. Our job is to support those in authority, with our advice, our prayers, with our Christ-like, salt-and-light lifestyle examples (e.g. Billy Graham).

  • Ok. But it sounds like you are saying our laws are anti-Christian and I don’t agree.
    Defending ones country is something people have done for 6000 years or so. We are not living under God’s government at this time.
    I also don’t agree that Christians cannot defend themselves. But as you explain your point I can see why feel that way.

  • Questioning

    “They determined unilaterally that all states must honor same-sex marriage, but civil marriage (and its definition) is a matter of state law.”

    Yay!

  • Just-a-me

    Pragmatism does not deal with the discussion, but I’m glad gay folks can be married.

  • kaydenpat

    Powerful! Thankfully, this coming Tuesday, we have a chance to put some brakes on the Trump administration and thus blunt the control of White Evangelicals on our government.

    White Evangelicals May have sold their souls for raw political power but the rest of us haven’t. It’s amazing that Christians can look at a man like Trump and not be repulsed.

  • kaydenpat

    Then go away and stop reading his blog. Lol

  • richard

    kaydenpat,
    people write on blogs to generate discussion and to hopefully listen/read to others as well.

    mr corey could have disallowed comments if he so chose too, but has chosen to allow comments, even those that disagree with him, as he does not desire to only hear redundant approval to his views, but to also hear others as perhaps subconsciously he knows he is wrong and desires to be persuaded to the truth

  • apoxbeonyou

    Wow richard, I find your comments sad and boring.

  • May you take comfort in knowing that there is a high likelihood that you are not alone

  • Just-a-me

    Eh hem, I think this story is now relevant. It’s not Blasey-Ford, but it is an accuser who wanted personal gain.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ws5XIIs5bG8

  • Trilemma

    If Hillary Clinton had won the election, then those people who identify as Christian who support her could be accused of selling out Jesus for 30 pieces of silver. When it comes to character and morality, Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump are equally bad. However, I think America has fared better under President Trump than it would have under Hillary Clinton.

  • richard

    I agree completely.
    And I wonder if Mr. Corey would go on a bus tour to protest Hillary ?
    (and just remember, Hillary supports the murder of thousands of babies annually through abortion).

  • Just-a-me

    “And I wonder if Mr. Corey would go on a bus tour to protest Hillary ?”
    Lol, hell no.

  • Just-a-me

    ” we have a chance to put some brakes on the Trump administration”
    3.7% unemployment; why on earth would you want to do that?

  • kaydenpat

    Because Trump is an ignorant, racist son of a bitch. That’s why. Blocked.

  • Just-a-me

    Lol, I got blocked because I asked kaydenpat why he wanted to risk jobs for several millions of people on the suspicions that Trump is ignorant and racist. If we’re to go this route, what vices are appropriate for a C-i-C to have that you wouldn’t risk millions of jobs? Blow jobs from the office secretary?

  • apoxbeonyou

    You get blocked because when challenged, you relent and move the goalposts. I’ve watched you many, MANY times. Maybe stop trolling so hard and try critical thinking and empathy?

  • Just-a-me

    “Maybe stop trolling so hard and try critical thinking and empathy?”
    Where have I not thought critically?
    Where have I not been empathetic?

  • Realist1234
  • Matthew

    Hello Peter.

  • Realist1234

    Hi Matthew. Did you enjoy the song? I heard the Father’s voice in it.

  • Matthew

    Yes. There is really only one place to fall, Peter. Thanks for the post. I trust all is well with you.

  • Matthew

    So Jesus was not necessarily political, but his message has political implications? Good thought.

    I think the church, as part of its overall mission, should be in the business of speaking truth to power, rallying
    against injustice of all kind, supporting the most vulnerable, etc, without wearing any political party on its sleeve.

    As Christians we shouldn´t follow a donkey or an elephant … but rather a lamb :-)

  • richard

    Matthew,
    although I understand what you wrote, not sure I agree. Jesus said little to nothing about the unjust Roman occupation of His day. He said little to nothing against slave ownership. He said little to nothing about the subjugation of women. He said nothing to Pilate. Pilate did not feel threatened by Jesus, and even stated that he saw no crime in the situation.
    His kingdom is not of this world.

  • SamHamilton

    Thanks Matthew. Much agreed.

  • Matthew

    Thanks so much richard.

    I guess your response causes me to ask yet another question (or two :-)):

    Do you vote? If so, does your belief in the life and teachings of Jesus, as well as how you interpret the Bible, in any way influence your political decisions?

    I ask this because while I totally agree Jesus´ kingdom is not of/from this world, and that he wasn´t looking to wield earthly political power, if we indeed follow the Master, that by default will affect our actions in the political realm (I think).

    For what it´s worth, I personally don´t think the question about how much a Christian should be involved in the political process is a very easy one to answer.

  • Matthew
  • richard

    Enjoying the discussion, Matthew.

    Yes, I vote. It is difficult to choose at times, with so much deception, half-truths, etc. on both sides of the political fences.
    One could argue as to the “christianness” of one side over the other, but I think in reality all sides fall very short.
    But with the information available, and the prayerful help of the Holy Spirit, I pray my choices would be His.

    What saddens me some is the emphasis that many Christians are placing on the political realm. Demonstrating, making bus tours, writing vile words, etc. have little place, IMHO, in a Christian’s life. Vote, and accept the results. And above all, do as He has taught, to love your enemies, pray for those that persecute you, and go two miles when you are asked to go one. I try to place my emphasis on personal interactions with others rather than group dynamics.
    As Paul said in 1Corinthians 2:1-5, “I know nothing among you except Jesus Christ, and Him crucified”

  • The unemployment rate has been steadily dropping since its post-recession spike in 2008. I see no reason to attribute special success to Trump for continuing the trend which began during the Obama administration, especially since it has come paired with market volatility the likes of which I have never seen. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/7de09e69d5a8beb5289fab9c883394dd6235b76e8b051d056492da77dbd18945.jpg

  • Just-a-me
  • Meanwhile there is a GoFundMe to help her cover the expense of security she now needs at all times because of the death threats which have forced her to move multiple times and have prevented her from returning to work.

  • You could go even further back and note how the largest organization of protestant Christians in the US owes its roots to slaveholders mixing cruelty with faith.

  • addalled

    Total BS

  • Oh, definitely. Proto-evangelicalism is based largely on the combo of biblical inerrancy, white Western European exceptionalism and the biblical right to racial exploitation, hence the biblical arguments for the exploitation of blacks and indigenous peoples. Many pastors at the time leading up to the American Civil War argued the abolitionist agenda was anti-Bible. Noll makes a strong case for this in his “The Civil War as Theological Crisis.” The problem much of evangelicalism has faced ethically is that the moral arguments for slavery and the exploitation of non whites in general was not ever theologically resolved following the Civil War amongst proto-evangelicals. Hence the continued xenophobia.

  • Pretty much describes the Bible Belt and S. Baptists.

  • And much of the hermeneutics used to justify slavery with Biblical argument likely feeds into the justifications of other forms of exploitation and persecution still present to the modern day. Once you can safely dismiss the humanity of the Other, that’s a pretty versatile tool for committing any manner of atrocity.

  • Yep, definitely helped the Lutheran church turn a blind eye in Nazi germany.

  • And in turn aided the US in refusing entry to Jewish refugees. The US continued doing business well past the point when it was feasible to believe that no one knew what was happening in Germany — IBM used to service typewriters with lists of execution victims still in the carbons while our automotive industry contributed to the development of German tanks.

  • Realist1234

    Nice song.

  • Matthew

    Thanks so much richard.

  • Questioning

    The unemployment rate dropped 4.8% and 11.6 million jobs were added during Obama’s administration. Those are facts, but I guess Obama had nothing to do with that either. :>)

    Edited to add: with respect to the current situation, I hope the GM announcement is a one off, but probably will not be.

  • Just-a-me

    Did you watch the video? He literally dealt with this question in the first slide.
    Regarding GM Financial woes, those me going on for more than a decade. So their present situation cannot be due to the current Administration but it’s been going on for more than 10 years. They should have been bankrupt on time ago.

  • Questioning

    Sure I watched some of it. I saw nothing there that disputed the facts I laid out. He spoke of optimism…. I presented facts. Optimism can quickly turn to pessimism, not to mention the obvious potential for bias in the reporting, considering the source.

    Oh and by the way, GM has been profitable since 2010.

  • Just-a-me

    “The unemployment rate dropped 4.8% and 11.6 million jobs were added during Obama’s administration. Those are facts, but I guess Obama had nothing to do with that either”
    The biggest employer is small business; fact.
    Small business optimism (which drives hiring) was jumped after Trump’s election and remained low through Obama’s presidency: fact.

    Er go, Drop in employment occurred despite Obama admin’s pessimistic effect in the small business sector.

    “not to mention the obvious potential for bias in the reporting, considering the source”
    You’re welcome to go get “alternative facts”–this stuff is largely retrievable from the FRED database or tradingeconomics.

    “Optimism can quickly turn to pessimism”
    Lol, boogeymen, boogeymen everywhere!

    “Oh and by the way, GM has been profitable since 2010.”
    No, “[bailed out and subsidized] GM has been profitable since 2010”
    They should’ve been sold off in ’08.

    Lastly, not to mention. Obama redefined the labor force participation rate for his political purposes.
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/peterferrara/2012/02/09/dont-be-fooled-the-obama-unemployment-rate-is-11/#72f20d096781

    He continued this figure through his presidency.

  • Questioning

    “Small business optimism was jumped after Trump’s election”

    Well imagine that…. and all this due to absolutely nothing Trump has done before or since. It should be no surprise to you or anyone that small business is more confident in a lily white Republican than a black Democrat. It’s called perception and added to this the perception he would be better because he is a “businessman”, even though he has failed about half the time. Proving, once again, there is no overestimating the ignorance and the blindness of many voters.

    “You’re welcome to go get “alternative facts”

    I have no interest in such, since Orange Julius has invented and perfected the concept.

    “Lol, boogeymen, boogeymen everywhere.”

    Call it what you want. If we see more announcements like GMs watch how quickly optimism will cool.

    “They should have been sold off in 08 ”

    I think the 180000 people they employ in the US would disagree, along with Orange Julius. Besides, you better hope they do not go belly up or that precious 3.7% number will go to shixt in a snap. Then OJ will have to resort to even more inventive storytelling to justify his “stable genius” and “higher intelligence” lol. Frankly I’d be surprised he can find his way around the WH without a tour guide.

    “Lastly, not to mention, Obama redefined the labor force participation rate for his political purposes.”

    LOL! Boogeymen! Boogeymen everywhere!

  • Just-a-me

    “and all this due to absolutely nothing Trump has done before or since.”
    That’s just not true; that’s why the Fed can move markets just by speaking without enacting any policy. People listen to the campaigns, businesses hedge their bets, and markets adjust on election night.

    “It should be no surprise to you or anyone that small business is more confident in a lily white Republican than a black Democrat.”
    Other than you projecting bigotry, what does skin color have to do with it?

    “I have no interest in such, since Orange Julius has invented and perfected the concept.”
    Degrading into sheer insults I see–this is called being bankrupt.

    “If we see more announcements like GMs watch how quickly optimism will cool.”
    Austrian economists have already explained what will cause more GM’s: the federal government intervening in businesses keeping them afloat when they should have let market forces take over…that’s not Trump’s fault, although the effects of the tariffs will be in a few years…but many a conservative have already decried this.

    “LOL! Boogeymen! Boogeymen everywhere!”
    Um…not the same. You’re boogeyman was just Malthus pessimism. My ‘boogeyman’ was legitimately what the administration did.

  • Questioning

    So basically we are in agreement that it is not anything Trump has done and it is all about perception and rhetoric. Ok fine.

    Skin color should not have anything to do with it, but it does, and if you believe otherwise you are living in cloud cuckoo land. Same goes for party affiliation.

    I first heard the phrase “alternative facts” emanate from the Trump camp. If “Orange Julius” offends you I will refrain from using it.

    So you found some economists that agree with what you already believe. So? I spent about 5 minutes on the internet and found a wide range of opinions from economists. Toemaytoe, Toemahtoe. Unless of course these “Austrian” economists are gifted with omniscience.

    So which part of the 4.8% drop, 11.6 million jobs added is false due to the boogeyman Obama fiddling?

  • Just-a-me

    “perception and rhetoric.”
    You think that rhetoric is ‘not doing anything’?

    “Skin color should not have anything to do with it, but it does”
    Bigot.

    “If “Orange Julius” offends you I will refrain from using it.”
    If doesn’t offend me; you’re just a bigot.

    “I spent about 5 minutes on the internet and found a wide range of opinions from economists. Toemaytoe, Toemahtoe. Unless of course these “Austrian” economists are gifted with omniscience.”
    You don’t have to have omniscience to be a better logician. The Austrians are, bar none, the best at such.

    “So which part of the 4.8% drop”
    At least 3 percent–it also took 8 years for small business confidence to go up. How much longer did he need?

  • Questioning

    Sure rhetoric is doing something… um its talking. Little else though.

    I’m no bigot, but I know some.

    Your opinion on the Austrians is noted, for what that is worth.

    Why did it take so long? Maybe because he was thought to be a Muslim, or he was going to take away our guns, or he was going to run for a 3rd term, or simply because Congress did not like him, etc etc.. hell I dont know, I only voted for him once.

    I am interested in one thing. I am going to go out on a limb and assume you are a Trump supporter. This is a Christian website so I am going to also assume you at least have a passing interest in christianity. Given all we know about Trump…. the spotty business history, the things he has said about himself, about others, women in particular, the childish, spiteful, narcissistic behavior, the lies and obvious lack of morals, the low character, things said and done that seem to belie a lack of basic intelligence or at least a disregard for learning, etc… why do you support him? Why should I or anyone support such a man as POTUS?

  • Just-a-me

    “Sure rhetoric is doing something… um its talking. Little else though.”
    Then why is rhetoric punishable as hate crime?

    “Maybe because he was thought to be a Muslim, or he was going to take away our guns, or he was going to run for a 3rd term, or simply because Congress did not like him, etc etc.. hell I dont know, I only voted for him once.”
    Me too. Regarding the first part; more people like Obama (still do) than like Trump, so why would him being thought of as Muslim have anything to do with it?

    “simply because Congress did not like him”
    Dems owned Congress for 4 years, similar to Trump’s 2017 Congress–this argument is bunc.

    “I am going to go out on a limb and assume you are a Trump supporter. ”
    Negative; though I think his policies are better for people, better than the last 4 presidents and maybe even since before Kennedy.

    “why do you support him?”
    Obama killed an American kid, and he was still supported; if we’re talking about morals, all of these aholes should be unsupported.

    “Why should I or anyone support such a man as POTUS?”
    I never said you should.

    My dad was an alcoholic who cussed a lot and told dirty jokes; yet if it’s a choice between an alcoholic father and a murderous tyrant, I’ll choose my dad. He had is demons, but he was right 99% of the time.

    Your argument about intelligence is just political punditry. He’s played you and CNN like a fiddle.

  • Questioning

    Perhaps because when rhetoric crosses the line into hate speech it needs to be punishable.

    And the people who thought he was muslim were supportive of him and his policies? Not…. Perhaps that had something to do with it.

    Not political bunc…. I never said the Republicans in Congress did not like him, I said Congress did not like him up to and including members of his own party. Besides he was POTUS for 8 years not just the 4 he had all the Democratic “support”.

    Fair enough… you are not a Trumpette. As far as “better for people” I guess it depends on which people one is talking about. Time will tell.

    I am not fooled by Trumps demagoguery though many are. The one conversation of his about women and “pussy grabbing” tells me all i need to know about his character, class, and intelligence. It’s all low.

    You can have the parting shot…. I’m out.

  • Just-a-me

    “Perhaps because when rhetoric crosses the line into hate speech it needs to be punishable.”
    When does it do that?

    “And the people who thought he was muslim were supportive of him and his policies? Not….”
    Such people were far outnumbered by those who loved him, and the many who hate Trump far outnumber the many who love him–yet Trump got stuff done.

    “I said Congress did not like him up to and including members of his own party. ”
    And this is bunc.

    “Besides he was POTUS for 8 years not just the 4 he had all the Democratic “support”.”
    Trump only had 2 years and got much done that’s been good for the economy. Obama had 4 solid years to do what he wanted, and nothing “great” came of it.

    “tells me all i need to know about his character, class, and intelligence. It’s all low.”
    Obama killed a kid.

  • John Gills

    I’m intrigued by Jorge Luis Borges short story “Three versions of Judas” wherein he posits that Judas actually was the Messiah, whose actions brought about redemption for mankind, and whose sacrifice/suffering is to be hated, despised and reviled for all time.

  • Just-a-me

    Please, continue bitching about Trump as an immoral man while remaining entirely supportive of Obama:
    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/20/us/politics/afghanistan-troop-withdrawal.html?fbclid=IwAR2QGcWDuq-5Xb3f5Op4AYrQiXEkoCSvpniCO2jymKTBszvLQmFNt7Ax2fY

  • I appreciate your comment. Most on this site will attack you for it once they read it.

    I find it very sad that the Left has decided they need Christianity to support their attacks on a politician while on the other hand they turn their face from abortion. So I ask who is the bigger fool; the one who uses the bible deceitfully or the one who blindly follows others who know less than they do?

  • Hillary has committed very serious crimes in pursuit of power. Her supporters in the Obama administration have concealed and masked her crimes. The media refuse to investigate and report.
    The Left is adamant that she is a saint and wrongfully denied the presidency by the Russians. All with no proof.

    Every single thing in Trump’s life is being investigated and reported with an agenda: drive Trump’s ratings down and impeach him. Like little children throwing a temper tantrum.

    The problem is that it is not working. And it won’t work.

  • What is Hillary’s plan if not Raw Political Power? Tell us if you know what she would have done in the last two years?

  • Irrational assumptions.

  • kaydenpat

    Anyone is better than the Orange Deranged Bigot.

  • Bones

    Tell us more about this kid Obama killed…..

  • Bones

    Lol do you know how stupid you sound to the rest of the world.

  • Bones

    Well no, that was Trump’s campaign rant.

    Although it is funny seeing trump’s campaign team get locked up.

  • Bones

    And you’d love to be checking out people’s tackle when they go the toilet, wouldn’t you.

  • Bones

    Derpy Derpy transpeople have been going to the toilets of their choice for decades.

    All of a sudden they might rape women….

    I wonder why you’re suddenly worried?

  • Bones

    Actually all it showed is how f***ed up the US political system is where justices are appointed by politics and defended because they’re on a political side.

    That’s something I’d expect in a dictatorship.

    In the western world justices are not appointed because of their politics but their understanding and application of the law which is not tied to any political party.

  • Bones

    Lol…the kingdom of God is a political kingdom.

    That’s why tyrants hate it.

  • Bones

    According to Mark the Kingdom of God is part of this world.

    Jesus actually had a lot to say about the politics and practices of his time.

    Lol Pontius Pilate the ruthless corrupt tyrant is turned into an innocent man by John who was more interested in blaming Jews.

  • Bones

    Except Jesus was killed as a rebel….and political dissident…

    So there goes that theory.

  • Bones

    “Because government are given the sword for power”

    Hasn’t that worked well…..and that ‘sword’ is actually a collection of trained individuals.

    Btw this ‘ll freak you out but the gospel of Mark is a political manifesto aimed squarely at the religious and military rulers of the time.

  • Bones

    Lol, darn it. Why didn’t Jesus talk about his understanding of western democracy?

  • Bones

    Aaaaaand now you conveniently ignore the prophets.

    Why is that not a surprise?

  • Bones

    Nah….we heard the same in 1930s Germany. Not our problem..don’t get involved in politics.

    You need to work out what is just and work to make the world a better place.

    Then you might understand the kingdom of God.

  • Bones

    Yeah you are a hypocrite. Btw if only Romero and Bonhoeffer had such an idiotic view of the gospel they might be still alive.

    Hey you wanna kill Jews and poor people- none of my business.

    See your gospel isn’t worth shit.

  • Bones

    And we can say the same about you and your years of whinging on this site

    Oh how you did hate Obama….and claimed blackpeople are stupid.

  • Bones

    “Just quoting Scripture”
    Which shows you don’t understand it.

    Heck anyone can quote scripture.
    Romans was written in the context of a national revolt against Rome.

    As for Nebuchednezzars dream, it reeks of the whole divine rule of kings which I thought the US fought against.

  • Bones

    How many of Trump’s people in jail now Bob?

  • Bones

    “Second, Jesus was decidedly anti-political.”

    Yeah that’s why he was tried and executed for sedition.

    Same as Bonhoeffer, Romero, Kolbe….

    This whole argument has been used before and shown to be just a spineless group who aren’t prepared to understand concepts such as justice but hide behind religion.

    Not to mention the US would still be a British colony.

  • Bones

    Lol Billy Graham – the guy who told Nixon to blow up the Vietnamese dykes in the Vietnam War….

    Lol yeah he wasn’t political…..

  • Bones

    Do you ever stop to think that the biblical writers had no idea of representational democracy?

    So people had no say in who their leaders were and just had to put up with whichever warlord was ruling and had taken over from the previous warlord. They were supposedly divine appointments eg Caesar and even the Sanhedrin.

    So therefore the blame of Jesus’s death rests with God himself….

    But they did have an understanding of justice eg the prophets railed against the injustice of the kings and were killed as political figures..

    Interestingly a person like you would not not be worth killing because you don’t get involved in politics.

  • Bones

    What did he say?

  • Bones

    To be fair you’re not the only one who’s sold themselves out…..for you to sell out it cost nothing but empty rhetoric…Trump sold out his soul a looonnnnggg time ago.

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/6a7fee8553444b08f0b0bc90cdc881713665a4650183501c80b461607ca73842.jpg

  • Bones

    Lol I recall your temper tantrums on here about Obama….

    As for Trump read it and weep….

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/44e17c2ad6a6c7548a324d38c931512e5250f79881043445be5429ea7f4c84a6.jpg

  • Bones

    Yep you’ve shown that on here plenty of times Everett.

    Your hatred of Corey keeps bringing your kind back.

  • Bones

    More bs.

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/182c9e78c2ab80989df8240c2e3bad8d57eb329671c9bae4564d5e65d243087e.jpg

    Trump on the other hand still believes the Central Park 5 should be executed despite DNA evidence clearing them.

  • Bones
  • Just-a-me

    “All of a sudden they might rape women….”
    That was mever the argument, but I suspect you know this.

  • Matthew

    I have absolutely no idea why the Americans and the Europeans
    are so “cozied” up to the Saudis. Is money everything??? Oh yeah …
    stupid question right???

  • Just-a-me

    How so?

  • Matthew

    Bones no like salvific Jesus … :-)

  • Matthew

    Bones´ “one sided” Jesus … :-)

  • David Cohen

    Please continue to distract the faithful’s attention from Trump’s incompetence with ritual chants of “well, Obama…”

  • Just-a-me

    “Well Obama” is not relevant here.

    Just wondering what you guys care about more: bed sheet manner or saving civilian lives.

  • David Cohen

    We know that Obama is not relevant to the current government. I was pointing out that T fans consistently bring him up as a distraction from the current president’s incompetence. I am sorry that point confused you, but I can’t dumb it down any further for you.

  • Just-a-me

    “I was pointing out that T fans consistently bring him up as a distraction from the current president’s incompetence.”
    Another thing that isn’t relevant. Please move your complaints elsewhere.

  • David Cohen

    As the young folks say, triggered much?

    If Obama is not relevant, as you say, why did you bring him up?

  • Just-a-me

    “As the young folks say, triggered much?”
    It has nothing to do with my post; so I don’t know why I would be triggered. You’re just wasting whitespace.

    “If Obama is not relevant, as you say, why did you bring him up?”
    No no, I said “Well Obama” is not relevant.
    You then talked about “T fans consistently bringing him up” in reference to “Well Obama”. I did not do this, however. Er go, irrelevant.

  • Bones

    Salvation from what?

    Religious and fundamentalist BS?

    Look how well that worked.

    Tyrants don’t give a rats about individual salvation.

  • Bones

    Yeah it is.

    Just started worrying about it now have ya.

    Just face it.

    Ya can’t pick on gays so you need someone else to beat up.

  • Just-a-me

    “Yeah it is.”
    No it wasn’t.

  • Bones

    Yeah it is.

    I see you’re a liar as well.

    No surprise there.

  • Bones

    Thanks for telling us how much you hate us.

    Grab a ticket and get in line Dufus.

    You go away and come back and some other idiot is pontificating about how conservatives are victims.

    Go and find some migrants to beat up.

    Cry me a River.

  • Bones

    Must be why you said Obama killed a kid.

    While trump campaigned for the execution of 5 black boys receives…..(crickets)

  • Just-a-me

    “Yeah it is.”
    You keep saying it, but it wasn’t.

  • Bones

    And you wouldn’t be protesting your false Messiah Trump no matter what he did.

  • Bones

    Lol…….

  • Just-a-me

    “Go and find some migrants to beat up.”
    Two questions:
    Who’s going out of the country to find migrants? It’s a weird statement.
    Who’s beating up migrants?

  • Just-a-me

    I’m not going on tour to support a false messiah either… dumbbbb

  • Bones

    lol. I live in a country with free health care. You’re talking out your arse.

  • Just-a-me

    “…..(crickets)”
    Hardly; it just happened like 30 years ago so people were chirping at that time.

    “5 black boys [in a group that very night who assaulted 8 other people]”. FTFY
    https://nationalpost.com/opinion/marni-soupcoff-story-of-the-central-park-five-not-so-black-and-white

  • Bones

    Lol that’s why you’ve sold yourself out to trump all over this thread.

    Hitler was great for the economy too, bonehead.

    And had idiots like you eating out of his hand.

  • Just-a-me

    And predominately white folks, but you probably don’t think it matters because you seek confirmation bias.

  • Just-a-me

    “Hitler was great for the economy too, bonehead.”
    He destroyed his economy, remember? WW2???

  • Bones

    Lol trump used it in his campaign speech.

    He still wants to see them fry.

    Lol seems you do too.

    For a crime they didn’t do.
    You two merkins are perfect for each other.

  • Bones

    Try thinking before the war bonehead.

    The German economy was motoring along.

    They were saying the same shit you are.

  • Just-a-me

    Don’t wanna be accused of a crime? Don’t do crime.

  • Bones

    As I thought you have nothing.

    Your just a trump propagandist.

  • Just-a-me

    “Try thinking before the war bonehead.”
    Then that’s moronic.

    “The German economy was motoring along.”
    …into a second war that destroyed its economy.

    To take only the “golden years” is stupid.

  • Bones

    It is moronic for you to try thinking.

    The German economy was motoring and everyone worshipped Hitler.

    Just like you worship your false Messiah.

    You’ve sold yourself out.

  • Just-a-me

    “The German economy was motoring and everyone worshipped Hitler.”
    And then his policies launched a world war and killed millions.
    It’s like saying, “Damn, all these years I at chocolate were the best.”
    Except that you’ve now had two legs chopped off due to diabetes.

    Or like saying, “Damn, those buzzed years were great.”
    Except that you’re 35 and on dialysis hoping you might have a donor.

    Or like saying, “Damn, those years blowing through my trust fund money spending it on booze and strippers was great!”
    Except that now you’ve lost the ability to afford a high class lifestyle.

    You can’t separate the outcome from the highlights.

  • Matthew
  • Just-a-me
  • Matthew

    Thanks for the link Just-a-me. I am aware that our brothers and sisters in Christ are persecuted not only in Iran, but Saudi Arabia too as well as other places in the Middle East and the world.

  • Just-a-me

    Then perhaps you could rephrase your statement as why Americans and Europeans want to “cozy” up to Iran as well.

  • Bones

    Lol… unfortunately for you, you can’t change the facts…..

    Hitler was worshipped for his economic policies which brought nearly full employment.

    That he was he was a hateful lunatic is the whole point.

  • Bones

    Lol….the thing about Trump supporters is they’re nothing new.

    It’s either blacks, gays, migrants, Italians, irish, jews.

    Btw that caravan is made up mainly of Hondurans, Guatemalans and el Salvadorians. Countries f**ked up by us policy.

    Trump cultists be like “hey don’t come here because we f**ked your country.

    Take some responsibility for yourself.”

    Merkins!

  • Bones

    You keep denying it but it is.

  • Bones

    Lol the trump cultists don’t want to know about Saudi Arabia…..the most extremist Muslim nation on earth.

  • Bones

    Lol…but but Iran…..

    You really have no principles at all.

  • Bones

    Meanwhile I”ll excuse the war crimes and dismemberment of a journalist by our friends because Iran.

    You truly are f**ked in the head.

    But Obama killed a kid.

    Moron!

  • Bones

    Well they didn’t…and your hero wants them dead. Still going on about it in his campaign speech 2016.

    At least Judas sold himself for 30 pieces of silver.

    You sold yourself out because you liked the hate that comes out of the merkin-in-chief.

  • Just-a-me

    “Hitler was worshipped for his economic policies which brought nearly full employment.”
    And a lot of death; they’re inseparable.

  • Bones

    Here’s some facts….

    Us technology firms have had to close because of US tariffs on Chinese technology.

    GM has closed down their plants and laid off thousands.

    Better give the rich more tax cuts.

  • Just-a-me

    I didn’t excuse anything

  • Bones

    And now you’ve reached the point where economic policy is not the sole indicator of good government.

    Well done.

    Took you a while but you got there.

  • Bones

    Yes you did.

    Saudi Arabia can do whatever the f*** theywant because Iran…(and because you can’t criticise the buffoon in office).

    Lol you gave your balls to trump as well.

  • Bones

    Nixon was more liberal than Obama.

    That’s how stupid the US political scene is.

  • Bones

    You know as Romero was lying bleeding after being assassinated he was thinking to himself .”you know I’m a silly bastard for ordering the army to stop killing poor people. I should’ve just told them to accept Jesus Christ as their lord and saviour.

    And as Bonhoeffer was being hung he was thinking “gosh darn…why did I plot against the government and their extermination of the Jews. I should’ve just said accept Jesus Christ as your lord and saviour”.

    Evangelicalism – the gospel of nothing.

  • Bones

    Where is the king of the kingdom then?

    You people aren’t too bright.

    The Romans made it clear with their inscription on the cross that Jesus’s death was political.

    And the gospels make it clear as well.

    But you don’t give a shit because you worship the false Messiah in power.

  • Bones

    Tell us who the king of the kingdom of God is then?

  • Bones

    Btw you know the “world” in john means Judaism.

    So Jesus’s kingdom is not in Judaism – not up in the sky or in heaven.

    Which was the whole point of John’s gospel – he didn’t like the Jews.

    And yes Jesus subverted the religious, political and military leaders of his day.

  • Bones

    You’d have been useless in nazi Germany as well.

  • Bones

    Better for who?

    Trump has pulled out of nuclear proliferation deals AND environmental protection and global warming protocols.

  • Bones

    Jesus be like….

    https://youtu.be/4xmckWVPRaI

  • Trilemma

    Who benefited the most from the nuclear proliferation deals? The planet is getting warmer but I think the temperature is not as sensitive to carbon dioxide levels as it’s assumed to be. But we do need to reduce our dependence on fossil fuels because the supply is limited.

  • Bones

    Everyone benefited from nuclear anti-proliferation deals. Lol the planet is getting warmer and it’s got nothing to do with CO2. Sure sunshine.

    So basically the whole world is worse off.

    Btw has the country got better for migrants since trump was elected?

    Seems you’ve been sipping the trump Kool aid.

  • Bones

    And moving the US embassy to Jerusalem was wonderful for peace with Palestinians.

    Tax cuts to the rich really helped the poor and working class didn’t it.

    Maybe you need to get out of your own little world.

  • Trilemma

    But who benefited more?

    I didn’t say it’s got nothing to do with CO2. It’s not that sensitive to CO2. The most abundant greenhouse gas in the atmosphere is water vapor. Methane is a bigger threat than CO2.

    Do you think the world wold have been better off with Ms. Clinton? Would the country have gotten better for migrants under Ms. Clinton? Unemployment is down. That’s good for everyone.

  • Bones

    Yes the world would be better off under Clinton.

    Unemployment was going down under Obama as well.

    But that wasn’t as good hey?

    Some of those migrant kids might still be alive under Clinton.

    Probably better for you that they”re dead hey.

    Might drive up unemployment.

  • Bones

    Trump is a climate change denier so spare me your understanding of science.

    Maybe you need to go out raking the forests.

    Trump’s also the biggest liar to ever sit in the office.

  • Bones

    Seems the only people who have benefitted under Trump are the rich….

  • Trilemma

    The only people who would have benefited under Ms. Clinton would have been the Clintons.

    Didn’t the hundred of thousands of people who got jobs benefit?

  • Trilemma

    The climate has always been changing. It will continue to change.

    How do you know President Trump is the biggest liar?

  • Bones

    Lol you’re kidding me right

    Just this week….

    4000 terrorists entered the us this year

    Other presidents told him they supported the wall.

    Let’s not forget his lies about Saudi Arabia.

    And another one who disregards science.

  • Bones

    Did people benefit when they got jobs under Obama?

    Those kids that died in immigration ‘care’ benefited a lot didn’t they?

    Trump’s only there for himself.

    We see that.

    You don’t.

    You should be ashamed of yourself.

  • Bones

    Better thank trump too for repealing obamacare.

    Maybe one day the US will enter the modern age with regard to universal health care for all.

  • Bones

    Lol remember when Trump led the birther movement against Obama?

    https://youtu.be/zeGpLg0b3DE

    And this is your president….

  • Bones

    Lol spends his whole time on here defending Trump as though Trump has him by the balls. Including Trump’s support for the Saudi kingdom’s dismemberment of a journalist and Trump’s call for executing the Central Park 5.

    Then has the hypocrisy to talk about morals.

    What a f**”wit.

  • Bones

    The prophets specifically railed against the injustice of government which in their time was the government of kings.

  • Bones

    Lol it’s funny when when people use quora as evidence of anything.

    It’s even funnier when the link refutes their own argument.

    Read the whole section next time idiot.

  • Bones

    Is that why you support trump calling for the execution of innocent black and Latino boys?

  • Matthew

    Are you saying that the Americans and the Europeans “cozy” up to Iran as well? The U.S., with its current policies toward the regime, doesn´t seem to be very “cozy” with Iran.

  • Matthew

    Man … what were these guys thinking? … those costumes and make-up!

  • Just-a-me

    The US spent 8 years cozying up to Iran, so yes.

  • Just-a-me

    I didn’t say that.

  • Just-a-me

    The prophets railed against a Jewish state which became nationalistic, legalistic, and dabbled in paganism.
    However, it was the Jews, not the government of the Jews, which were called to help the poor and the needy–to that end, God didn’t want them to have a king divinely or democratically elected. This, He made unambiguously clear.

  • Just-a-me

    “The Romans made it clear with their inscription on the cross that Jesus’s death was political.”
    Lol, so the Romans–under the mob of the Jews–murder Truth, and yet you take their word for his death as gospel? Hilarious.

  • Just-a-me

    “And now you’ve reached the point where economic policy is not the sole indicator of good government.”
    I never made the argument that it was. But a good government would also have good economic policy–this is not a symmetric statement.

  • Matthew

    Thanks again Just-a-me.

    Well … I suppose we could argue all day and into the night about whether extending the hand of diplomacy in order to try and peacefully solve a long standing foreign policy problem should be considered “cozying up”.

    That said, the way I personally feel about all this is that the U.S. and its allies should steer clear of the Middle East completely except for humanitarian assistance in places like Syria, Yemen, etc. (I do know, though, that ISIS throws a bit of a wrench into my opinion).

    [Edited]

  • Just-a-me

    “I do know, though, that ISIS throws a bit of a wrench into my opinion.”
    Created, of course, by the U.S.

  • Matthew

    What solutions do you have Just-a-me for the problems in the Middle East?

    I´d very much like to hear your ideas.

  • Just-a-me

    Obliterate the state.

  • Matthew

    A bit extreme … no?

  • Just-a-me

    Absolutely not. It’s the only moral solution.

  • Bones
  • Bones

    Lol….who was it who said he had a kingdom, jackass?

    The eyes see, the ears hear, but no one’s home is there?

  • Just-a-me

    +20% rise in home prices; no, he didn’t have good economic policies.

  • Bones

    A Jewish state = government….well done for pointing that out.

    And yes a tithe (tax – horror!!!) went to the poor. Ffs you’re a selfish prick as well.

    Don’t worry though. You’re no prophet.

    You would never criticise Trump even if he called for the execution of coloured boys or excused the dismemberment of a journalist.

    The prophets had balls.

    You don’t.

    You handed yours to Trump.

  • Bones

    Lol….you won’t dare criticise your false messiah will you?

    I hope you people don’t have kids because you have no understanding of right or wrong.

    And you claim to be the moral one….

    F*** off!

  • Bones

    The gospel according to Trump and his cult. “Show me the f***ing money.”

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/ecd26588e583828c9eb7fa3eb29edf1ef44cb9bdf40401f25b3042b4e4d5504b.jpg

  • Just-a-me

    You have called me a donkey. Does that make me a donkey? But I guess since you have said it, I must be a nonhuman.

  • Bones

    Lol unemployment down, millions of jobs created….

    Just like your false messiah.

    You really are a complete arse.

  • Bones

    Btw you’ve forgotten the Prime Mortgages scandal when house prices shat themselves…

    Are you a child?

  • Just-a-me

    Whoa, wait a second. You just told me that the Jews weren’t helping the poor, but now you’re telling me that their tithes did go to help the poor.

  • Just-a-me

    Yes and house prices went right back up and beyond that level that they were before the housing crisis.

    The whole story that should have been learned during that whole Scandal was that houses weren’t worth that much

  • Bones

    Lol so who is the king of the kingdom? I know you want it to be Trump.

    Yep run away with your tail between your legs minus your balls of course.

    Not looking so clever now are ya?

    You’ve just been shown to be another Trump stooge who knows sfa about anything including the Bible.

  • Just-a-me

    Can donkeys be Trump stooges?

  • Bones

    Rising house prices are good….

    You obviously don’t own a house….

    Still living in Mum’s basement hey?

  • Just-a-me

    All hail Bones who, with the power of the spoken word, can create animals out of humans.

  • Bones

    If you bothered reading the Bible you would know there were times when corrupt kings took the throne ala Trump….

    The prophets called them out, while sychophants like yourself fawned at their feet.

    Do you know anything at all or do you just rant about culture wars.

  • Just-a-me

    Just because home prices rise does not tell us whether or not that rises good.

  • Bones

    No problem.

    Not only are you an arse but Trump’s made you his bitch.

    How does it feel giving your balls to someone else?

  • Bones
  • Just-a-me

    God called out corrupt Kings whenever they slept with somebody else’s wife. He called out the Jewish Nation the people of Israel the church when they dabbled in paganism or didn’t serve the poor. That being said I digress, not helping the poor is not the same as abusing them, which was my original question.
    If you read Jeremiah or Isaiah you would know this. It wasn’t because of one single King that they went into captivity in Babylon for goodness sake.

  • Bones

    Depends if you own a house or not….it’s about a competitive market. Rising house prices = more demand = more houses being built = more jobs.

    Do you know what happens when house prices fall?????

    Do you not know anything?

    Obviously you don’t have a job either.

  • Just-a-me

    “Rising house prices = more demand = more houses being built = more jobs”
    Lol how’d that work in 2008?

  • Bones

    Oh and Isaiah 3

    The Lord arises to contend,
    And stands to judge the people.
    14 The Lord enters into judgment with the elders and princes of His people,
    “It is you who have devoured the vineyard;
    The plunder of the poor is in your houses.
    15 “What do you mean by crushing My people
    And grinding the face of the poor?”
    Declares the Lord God of hosts.

    Jeremiah 22:13
    “Woe to him who builds his house without righteousness
    And his [d]upper rooms without justice,
    Who uses his neighbor’s services without pay
    And does not give him his wages,
    14 Who says, ‘I will build myself a roomy house
    With spacious [e]upper rooms,
    And cut out its windows,
    [f]Paneling it with cedar and painting it [g]bright red.’
    15 “Do you become a king because you are competing in cedar?
    Did not your father eat and drink
    And do justice and righteousness?
    Then it was well with him.
    16 “He pled the cause of the afflicted and needy;
    Then it was well.

    Is not that what it means to know Me?”
    Declares the Lord.
    17 “But your eyes and your heart
    Are intent only upon your own dishonest gain,
    And on shedding innocent blood
    And on practicing oppression and extortion.”

    Amos 4

    Hear this word, you cows of Bashan who are on the mountain of Samaria,
    Who oppress the poor, who crush the needy,
    Who say to your husbands, “Bring now, that we may drink!”
    2 The Lord God has sworn by His holiness,
    “Behold, the days are coming upon you
    When they will take you away with meat hooks,
    And the last of you with fish hooks.
    3 “You will go out through breaches in the walls,
    Each one straight before her,
    And you will be cast to Harmon,” declares the Lord.

    Your god is more interested in toilets….and making money…..and has no concept of justice nor compassion.

  • Just-a-me

    These are all sent toward a Jewish people, not a government.

  • Bones

    The arse went out of the market due to shonky bank loans which saw interest rates go up to 30+%,,,,,,people forelcosed on their mortgages…….house prices crashed….people couldn’t refinance their loans because their mortgage was more than their house was worth……it led to a recession….which lost 9 million jobs in the US alone……and affected the whole world….

    You obviously weren’t around in 2008.

  • Just-a-me

    Yeah but house prices rose; that’s Keynesian bullshit for you.

  • Bones

    It created a bubble…which burst….

    It’s called capitalism….dipshit.

  • Bones

    Lol the king WAS the government….and injustice in his realm was HIS responsibility.

    The prophets are pretty clear that they are condemning the kings themselves eg your false messiah Trump.

    Unlike you they didn’t bend over and take it up the arse from unjust rulers.

    Btw using your (il)logic, soldiers had to supply their own weapons when they fought.

    Imagine taking that out of Trump’s budget.

    Jus shows how completely f***ed in the head you people are.

    Btw you don’t even understand Jesus’s story of the rich man and Lazarus. The rich man didn’t abuse LAzarus. He just refused to help him.

    Like you, moron.

  • Bones

    Lol from this year….

    Pricey U.S. home sales soar as buyers ignore new tax code

    A housing shortage, strong economy and robust demand have pushed many homes in major U.S. cities over $1 million, offsetting buyers’ concerns about the reduced benefits of owning a pricey property under President Donald Trump’s tax reform, data show.

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-property-tax-homes-analysis/pricey-u-s-home-sales-soar-as-buyers-ignore-new-tax-code-idUSKBN1HR1JN

    Rise in home prices largely due to rise of millennials

    Homes have become more expensive against both income and other consumer goods. The January data shows that home price growth is accelerating, not slowing. But the last housing cycle has made economists more skeptical when home price and income growth diverge.

    https://thehill.com/opinion/finance/380906-rise-in-home-prices-largely-due-to-rise-of-millennials

    Lol rising house prices aren’t bad when it’s under Trump….

    Moron!

  • Just-a-me

    No injustice was their responsibility as God’s chosen people. That’s why they were exiled, they (not the king) were disobedient.

  • Just-a-me

    You’re the one who said rising house prices are a good thing.

  • Just-a-me

    Housing is still in bubble territory.

  • Matthew

    Madness …

  • Matthew

    Sorry Just-a-me, but this just came to me:

    What are you defining as “state”?

  • Matthew

    Bones … do you think the Saudis (directly or indirectly) support ISIS?

  • Just-a-me

    So is it a strong economy that’s good for the economy or rising prices? You’re back to saying two different things.

  • Just-a-me

    Any system (generally called government) which obtains its revenue by violence or threat of violence.

  • Matthew

    Can you help me to better understand how obliterating the state will solve problems in the Middle East?

  • Just-a-me

    If a company were selling a product called “War in the Middle East”, would you be willing to buy it?

  • Matthew

    Are you a free market libertarian?

  • Questioning

    Not to mention he just indicated above with his “negative” statement back to me that he, allegedly, is not a Trump supporter. Yeah right…. obviously not to be believed or taken seriously.

  • Just-a-me

    What I am has no bearing on the question.

  • Bones

    Lol. I own a house and am paying off a mortgage. I do not want to see the value of my house fall.

    Rising house prices are a sign of a strong economy.

    When house prices fall you’re on your way to recession like I don’t know – 2008.

    But obviously you don’t know that.

    Surprisingly you’re not criticising trump for house prices rising under him.

    As usual you speak out of both sides of your mouth.

  • Bones

    Yes.

  • Bones

    That’s called capitalism.

    There are times of boom and bust and interest rates play a key role in that.

    There’s also the principle of supply and demand.

    It’s how investors make money.

    Capitalism 101.

  • Bones

    They are.

    Maybe buy a house one day mate.

    I’m sure those people who foreclosed on their mortgages in 2008 because they couldn’t refinance as their mortgage was many times more than their house was worth, were chuffed.

    How about you go do some research as it’s obvious Fox doesn’t do basic economics.

  • Bones

    Now you have no idea.

    The king is the one who administers law and order or justice…..because HE is the government.

    FFS do some research.

    Do you think the Israelites had no government?

    (Hint :it was close to Saudi Arabia;. Trump would’ve loved it).

    I understand it must be difficult when Fox doesn’t talk about such things and you have to do your own thinking.

  • Bones

    Lol. Not blowing Iran up is ”’cozying’ to Iran.

  • Bones

    And your friends the Saudis who were also financing bin Laden. See also a little thing called 9/11.

  • Bones

    Must be why you need the state to build a big wall and keep poor brown people out.
    Just because your country has been the source of much misery around the world, doesn’t mean others are.

  • Bones

    Like Saudi Arabia and Israel. Two countries Trump is giving billions of dollars in arms to.
    At least your taxes are going to something more worthwhile than free healthcare.

  • Bones

    Lol wants to obliterate the state while defending the political appointment of judges.

    F***ed in the head much?

  • Bones

    He’ll be the first to hide behind the constitution if you try to take ma machine guns as well as he’ll be supporting the state to build a wall to keep Latinos out – no wall around Canada ironically.

    And he’s just spent a large part defending the political appointment of a judge.

    At least his taxes are going on supplying the Saudi and Israeli militaries instead of free health care.

    Btw why do anti-state libertarians hate immigrants?
    If there’s no states, people can wander wherever the hell they want.

  • Bones

    Let’s have a look again….

    King Manasseh

    2 Kings 21:1 Manasseh was twelve years old when he began to reign, and reigned fifty and five years in Jerusalem. And his mother’s name was Hephzibah. And he did that which was evil in the sight of the LORD, after the abominations of the heathen, whom the LORD cast out before the children of Israel.

    2 Kings 23:26-27 Notwithstanding the LORD turned not from the fierceness of his great wrath, wherewith his anger was kindled against Judah, because of all the provocations that Manasseh had provoked him with.. And the LORD said, I will remove Judah also out of my sight, as I have removed Israel, and will cast off this city Jerusalem which I have chosen, and the house of which I said, My name shall be there.

    2 Kings 24:3-4 Surely at the commandment of the LORD came this upon Judah, to remove them out of his sight, for the sins of Manasseh, according to all that he did; And also for the innocent blood that he shed: for he filled Jerusalem with innocent blood; which the LORD would not pardon.

    Jeremiah 15:4 And I will cause them to be removed into all kingdoms of the earth, because of Manasseh the son of Hezekiah king of Judah, for that which he did in Jerusalem.

    King Elah and King Zimri

    1 Kings 16:9 Zimri, one of his officials, who had command of half his chariots, plotted against him. Elah was in Tirzah at the time, getting drunk in the home of Arza, the palace administrator at Tirzah. 10 Zimri came in, struck him down and killed him in the twenty-seventh year of Asa king of Judah. Then he succeeded him as king.

    11 As soon as he began to reign and was seated on the throne, he killed off Baasha’s whole family. He did not spare a single male, whether relative or friend. 12 So Zimri destroyed the whole family of Baasha, in accordance with the word of the Lord spoken against Baasha through the prophet Jehu— 13 because of all the sins Baasha and his son Elah had committed and had caused Israel to commit, so that they aroused the anger of the Lord, the God of Israel, by their worthless idols.”

    King Ahab and King Ahaziah
    1 Kings 22:51 Ahaziah the son of Ahab became king over Israel in Samaria in the seventeenth year of Jehoshaphat king of Judah, and he reigned two years over Israel. 52 He did evil in the sight of the Lord and walked in the way of his father and in the way of his mother and in the way of Jeroboam the son of Nebat, who caused Israel to sin. 53 So he served Baal and worshiped him and provoked the Lord God of Israel to anger, according to all that his father had done.

    Maybe you can give an example where Israel is NOT judged because of an evil king – but because of it’s people….because it isn’t there.

    In fact the whole Jewish understanding of messiah was that a king would lead Israel into their ‘original’ glory. Btw the term ‘messiah’ or ‘Christ’ means ánonited one – a title given to kings.

    Btw as for ‘not helping the poor’ ……

    what happened to the rich man who didn’t help Lazarus? Luke 16:19-31

  • Just-a-me

    “That’s called capitalism.”
    Lol, oh ok

  • Just-a-me

    “Rising house prices are a sign of a strong economy.”
    Except , of course, the housing bubble.

  • Just-a-me

    “They are.”
    Except, of course, the housing bubble.

  • Just-a-me

    “At least your taxes are going to something more worthwhile”
    That’s a value judgment and has no place in aggression.

  • Just-a-me

    “Must be why you need the state to build a big wall and keep poor brown people out.”
    Has nothing to do with me.

  • Just-a-me

    “Not blowing Iran up is ”’cozying’ to Iran.”
    Lol, because that’s all we did… /s

  • Just-a-me

    “The king is the one who administers law and order or justice”
    Look at you looking to authoritarians for guidance on how to live.

    “Do you think the Israelites had no government?”
    I didn’t say that.

    When Israel was exiled, it was because they, God’s people (not the king), worshiped false gods and did detestable things unfit for God’s chosen people.

  • Just-a-me

    Has no bearing on what I said.

  • Just-a-me

    Bones1:
    “Maybe you can give an example where Israel is NOT judged because of an evil king”

    Bones2:
    “…and had caused Israel to commit…”
    Q.E.D.

  • Interesting that you interpret the story that Judas did what he did for the money.
    How come other’s read it and see something differnt?
    And the how come in the Gospel of Judas it states that Jesus asked Judas to
    do this for him , and the money was just added on after.???

  • Bones

    The king caused it.

    Well done.

    Finally getting there.

  • Bones

    Actually it does.

    Why do you support an extremist Islamic State….

    (The answer is T-R-U-M-P)

  • Bones

    Lol, I’m just stating facts dude.

    You’re the one who supports authoritarian governments like Saudi Arabia.

    Israel was always punished because of the behaviour of the king.

    Proverbs 29:2
    When the righteous increase, the people rejoice, but when the wicked rule, the people groan.

    Proverbs 16:12
    It is an abomination to kings to do evil, for the throne is established by righteousness.

    Proverbs 29:14
    If a king faithfully judges the poor, his throne will be established forever.

    Proverbs 29:4
    By justice a king builds up the land, but he who exacts gifts tears it down.

    Proverbs 28:16
    A ruler who lacks understanding is a cruel oppressor, but he who hates unjust gain will prolong his days.

    Jeremiah 23:1-4
    “Woe to the shepherds who destroy and scatter the sheep of my pasture!” declares the Lord. Therefore thus says the Lord, the God of Israel, concerning the shepherds who care for my people: “You have scattered my flock and have driven them away, and you have not attended to them. Behold, I will attend to you for your evil deeds, declares the Lord. Then I will gather the remnant of my flock out of all the countries where I have driven them, and I will bring them back to their fold, and they shall be fruitful and multiply. I will set shepherds over them who will care for them, and they shall fear no more, nor be dismayed, neither shall any be missing, declares the Lord.

    Ezekiel 34:1-8
    The word of the Lord came to me: “Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel; prophesy, and say to them, even to the shepherds, Thus says the Lord God: Ah, shepherds of Israel who have been feeding yourselves! Should not shepherds feed the sheep? You eat the fat, you clothe yourselves with the wool, you slaughter the fat ones, but you do not feed the sheep. The weak you have not strengthened, the sick you have not healed, the injured you have not bound up, the strayed you have not brought back, the lost you have not sought, and with force and harshness you have ruled them. So they were scattered, because there was no shepherd, and they became food for all the wild beasts. …

    Who are the shepherds?

    Kings…….

    As made obvious in both Jeremiah and Ezekiel where in the same chapters the prophets say God will raise up a righteous king of the line of David in contrast to the evil ones who scattered the nation (ie Exile)

    You lack even a basic understanding of the Old Testament.

    IT doesn’t surprise me that you support evil rulers but it does show your concern about ‘morality’ to be complete and utter bs.

  • Bones

    That’s what your false messiah Trump and his lapdog Bolton want to do…..

    White House asked the Pentagon for plans to strike Iran – report
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jan/13/white-house-asked-pentagon-plans-strike-iran

  • Bones

    Lol….all of a sudden a major Trump policy has nothing to do with you.

    What happened to your balls?

    Btw check out what the Bible says about immigrants and aliens.

    Not that you give a shit because toilets….

  • Bones

    It’s a judgment based on your own posts and lack of any intestinal fortitude to criticise Trump policy.

    But….but….. evil lefties who opposed Kavanagh and evil trannies using wrong toilets….

    F###ing moron!

  • Bones

    Lol libertarians……

    Just-a-me: The evil state has no right to take taxes to fund health care…..and put though laws about toilets….

    Bones: But Trump’s building a wall and has shut the government down because they won’t fund it……

    Just-a-me: That’s got nothing to do with me…..(But Obama killed a kid and ate babies and Saudis are wonderful people because they dismember journalists)

  • Bones

    Except of course, you don’t have a clue.

    Can’t find the answer on Fox mate?

  • Bones

    Except, of course, you don’t have clue.

    What’s Fox telling you today mate?

  • Bones

    Lol, yeah, no problems.

    Maybe get a job and buy a house one day mate and hopefully it drops in value while your interest rates go up.

    Moron!

    Not so chatty now are we?

  • Just-a-me

    Lol liars….

    Bones: pretend thebother guy said [this].

  • Just-a-me

    So God is pissed at shepherds (kings) so he decide to massacre several of his own flock as they get taken into captivity?

    That’s just silly talk.

    Besides, the shepherds are obviously more than one, and there’s only one king (aside from the two nations), because it’s clearly referring to priests and religious leaders which in their theocracy included (but was not limited to) the king.

    Done of these, btw, imply Israel being punished by God for the sake of a few people. To pervert these verses to make it so just makes you a pervert, pervert.

  • Bones

    Lol .complete BS artist…and liar….

    Just-a-me: I’m only concerned about transexuals in toilets, conservative judges, Trump’s economic policies whiich are fantastic (but I hate government) and Obama eats babies.

    I don’t care about Saudi Arabia, the wall, migrants, trump calling for the execution of innocent black people.

    Oh and did I tell you how moral I am.

  • Bones

    Lol the king was the anointed one of God.

    It was he and his cronies who administered the laws of the land.

    Seems you have a problem with the Bible itself.

    Remember all of humanity was supposedly condemned because of the actions of 2 people.

  • Just-a-me

    “I’m only concerned about transexuals in toilets”
    There you go again; I’m done.

    All that lying, I bet your life is miserable. It isn’t too late for you too change.

  • Just-a-me

    “Remember all of humanity was supposedly condemned because of the actions of 2 people.”
    Well, while common, that’s one interpretation.

    That being said, that’s much different than getting massacred and survivors taken captive by Babylon for the unrighteousness of one king.

    Great job on your conflation though.

  • Bones

    Lol even you realise how stupid and trivial your posts are.

  • Bones

    Lol he won’t even criticise Trump over Saudi Arabia. or calling for the execution of black boys even after they were found innocent… And says the wall has nothing to do with him….

    But he doesn’t believe in government…lol

  • apoxbeonyou

    Ben, come back!! We need your wisdom more than ever!

  • otrotierra

    I fully agree. Time to bring some wisdom to Patheos.

  • Matthew

    This might not be the most appropriate place to post this, but I wasn´t certain where to begin a possible discussion about the following:

    I´ve been rustling around, for lack of a better label, post-evangelical, progressive Christianity for about 4 or 5 years now I think. It´s been one heck of a ride and I have learned many things. Moving away from toxic evangelical fundamentalism has truly freed me in many ways. That said, I have observed two things that concern me about more progressive streams of the Christian faith.

    The first is the Holy Spirit. It seems to me that not much is said about the power of the Holy Spirit in these circles. Coming from a charismatic background myself, I can certainly appreciate the skepticism that exists among a lot of people regarding the charismatic movement. That said, I still very much believe in the power of the Holy Spirit to change lives, to usher in the kingdom, to heal, etc. I´m wondering if more discussion about how to understand and experience the Holy Spirit in our lives from a progressive perspective is in order?

    The second is that when one moves away from the God of the calvinists, he or she seems to lose out on God´s beautiful sovereignty. It all becomes (so it seems) a matter of natural laws and human free will. It´s like God isn´t in control anymore. I´m wondering if it´s possible to hang onto the positive aspects of God´s sovereignty, while also embracing the power of human free will and that of natural phenomenon and laws? Basically, can we jettison the idea that God is the author of evil if we indeed say that he is sovereign and in control? Can we have this kind of God without all the ugly fundamentalist baggage that so often comes with it?

    Thanks so much. I look forward to your thoughts.

    Matthew

  • Just-a-me

    “That said, I still very much believe in the power of the Holy Spirit to change lives, to usher in the kingdom, to heal, etc. I´m wondering if more discussion about how to understand and experience the Holy Spirit in our lives from a progressive perspective is in order?”
    Great questions Matthew, a question I’d like to know is: what are some things Progressive Christians believe people need to be healed from?

  • Just-a-me

    *Barf*

  • Just-a-me
  • Just-a-me

    I agree, Patheos does need some wisdom for once…I don’t know what Ben has to do with that though; he’s been here for a long time.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Xt1kUK71lc

  • David Cohen

    Try actually contributing to the conversation rather than offering juvenile response like “*Barf*”

  • Just-a-me

    Nah, I’m good with that response. It’s not like I wished someone ill or anything…

  • Bones

    Edit: sorry dude wrong poster.

  • Bones

    So what did the Holy Spirit do about slavery?

    Or equality for women, black and gay people?

    Also seems the Holy Spirit doesn’t like gays much.

    If you believe those who claim to possess it.

    The only sensible discussion of the Holy Spirit would be in the realm of Liberator and social justice.

    So the discussion is being had in the realms of liberation theology.

    I’m so over the Holy Spirit healed me of my headache and helped me find $5 on the ground (which some poor bastard lost and can’t afford to buy food). While the country next door is starving.

    Also the whole division of God into 3 entities is not a progressive mindset.

    Neither is sovereignty.

    Because God clearly isn’t sovereign.

  • Bones

    By the way my thoughts are that ”god’ is the energy by which we and the universe/multiverses have life.

    I don’t see that god as personal
    or sovereign at all but it lives in me and all of ‘creation’. A form of panentheism.

    That negates any nonsense about evil and free will.

    Evil itself is a subjective term itself. We would say genocide and killing gay people is evil but apparently not the old testament writers.

    The life we have here is what we make of it.

    No outside saviour is going to save us from ourselves unless there are aliens. (Hopefully nice ones – not the Ripley kind)

  • Bones

    Yeah where is he?

  • Bones

    “what are some things Progressive Christians believe people need to be healed from?”

    Ignorance. Selfishness.

  • Matthew

    Thanks for your thoughts Bones.

  • Matthew

    Thanks.

  • Just-a-me

    If god is some sort of energy force, in what way are we made in his image?

  • Bones

    For starters what some Iron Age writer claimed 2500 years ago is irrelevant. Just like they claimed God endorsed slavery, genocide and killing gay people.

    Even so the Jewish understanding of what that means is nothing like the Christian interpretation.

    We’re made of energy. It’s the energy within us that gives us life.

    Without it, we die.

    It’s actually an Eastern belief as well and yes that includes eastern Christianity.

  • Just-a-me

    Did god make chimpanzees in his image?

  • Bones

    Chimpanzees have a far greater understanding of empathy and compassion than Trump voters.

    You should be asking did God make Trump in his image.

    No f***ing way.

    How chimpanzees reveal the roots of human behaviour
    Chimpanzees show empathy and altruism just like humans do – so could we learn from them?
    http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20181101-how-chimpanzees-reveal-the-roots-of-human-behaviour

    The Alpha male in chimpanzee societies is the Consoler-in-chief, not a bully.

    Chimpanzees have far more an understanding of compassion, altruism and empathy than most humans.

  • Matthew

    Why do you think this is so if humans are a higher level evolutionary product of a monkey common ancestor?

  • Just-a-me

    Lol I simply asked you a question. This being said, you’ve avoided saying yes or no. Why is that?

  • Bones

    I answered your question…TWICE.

  • Bones

    Maybe Ripley in Aliens sums it up.

    You don’t see the creatures screwing each other over for a buck.

    It’s simple. Humans reward power and strength. And the concept of altruism and empathy gave way to selfishness and power.

    Also in the video it says that human societies became too big.

  • Bones

    What do YOU think being made in the image of God means?

  • Matthew

    I´m really just beginning to understand evolution. It would seem to me, though, that the evolutionary process in humans would favor weeding out the bad stuff (like adverse use of power and strength) while building up the good stuff (like altruism and empathy). I tend to think this would help the human species survive and flourish.

    I´ll admit … I´m still just learning about this stuff …

  • Just-a-me

    You dodged twice

  • Bones

    Lol . You didn’t like my answer so suck it.

  • Bones

    Huh.. you’re confusing evolution which is a genetic process with social Darwinism of the 18 and 1900s. And social Darwinism isn’t the same as evolution or you might find yourself sliding into Nazism.

    What happened to all those tribes that Europeans encountered?

    There is what’s called the dominant culture which ruthlessly destroyed all others in its conquest of land for empire.

    Does that mean all those tribes were bad as advocated in the 19th century?

    Our need for power basically boils down to this:

    We had a need to take other people’s stuff.

    So we got behind warlords and the powerful.

    Aaaand we needed warlords to protect us from other warlords….

    If we’re made in the image of God and other creatures aren’t, that god is pretty f###ed.

  • Just-a-me

    You didn’t answer; I suppose God must still be making you and probably always will be. How would a non-sovereign and impersonal God ever finish making such beings in His image (whatever it may mean to you)?

    I just want to know if chimps are made in God’s image.

  • Ron McPherson

    I once talked with a former pastor who said that his dog was actually the best Christian he ever knew (he wasn’t being funny). His point was that the dog exhibited traits (unconditional love and forgiveness) that humans didn’t.

  • Matthew

    Thanks.

  • Bones

    Answered twice.

    Chimps are more in God’s image than you are.

    So f*** off.

  • Bones

    This from a guy who supports journalists being cut up and innocent people being executed.

    Nah.

    F*** off.

    Chimps are more in God’s image than you.

    Unless there’s an Arsehole or F***wit god somewhere.

  • Matthew

    Hello Ron!

  • Ron McPherson

    Hey Matthew. Hope you’re doing well

  • Just-a-me

    “You don’t see the creatures screwing each other over for a buck.”
    Ripley’s quote (I assume) sums it up nice, if it were true:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPznMbNcfO8

  • Bones

    Derpaderp do you think the chimps were killing for money?

    Which is what the Ripley quote is about.

    And that such attacks are extremely rare

    Actually the video goes on to prove how human behaviour is no different to chimps.

    Which once again shows your “humans are created in the image of God” to be
    utter BS.

    Well done!

  • Bones

    Much better to be a supporter of extremist Muslims cutting up Saudi journalists.

    Wonder why you people gave trump your balls.

  • Just-a-me

    “Which once again shows your “humans are created in the image of God” to be
    utter BS.”
    Thank you for finally being candid about what you believe.

  • Bones

    I already told you that like 3 times. How stupid are you?..oh yeah you worship trump.

    No wonder you support Trump and the Saudis.

    You are exhibit A on why humans aren’t created in God’s image. That god would be an arsehole.

    Heck at least the chimps didnt try to cover up their murder because dollars.

    And thanks again for posting a video which proves my point.

    Moron!

  • Just-a-me

    “You are exhibit A on why humans aren’t created in God’s image.”
    On your judgment day, just know that I forgive you.

  • Bones

    You forgive me for pointing out you’re wrong?

    What a sanctimonious pos.
    The families of kashoggi and the 5 black guys trump wants dead don’t forgive you.

    I dont forgive you either. And I wont forgive and neither will my kids forgive those who supported a global warming denialist.

    And neither will any god that is worth anything.

    So you can stuff your judgement day up your arse.

  • Just-a-me

    “I dont forgive you either.”
    Ok; still, I forgive you.

  • Bones

    Your forgiveness is like the nazis forgiving the Jews.

    You really are such a stupid arsewipe that you can’t see the hurt you do to others and neither do you give a shit.

    There will be generations of humanity condemning people like yourself.

  • Just-a-me

    “There will be generations of humanity condemning people like yourself.”
    Like rhe Nazis did to the Jews I’m sure.
    I still forgive you.

  • Bones

    “I still forgive you” said the husband as he raped his wife.

    “I still forgive you” said the lying poster who supported the dismemberment of a journalist.

    “I still forgive you” said the sycophantic poster who supports his fake messiah’s call for the death penalty of the innocent.

    “I still forgive you” said the poster who supports the continuing destruction of our planet.

    “I still forgive you” said the fear mongering poster who writes against our trans brothers and sisters as though they are a threat.

    Your forgiveness is not needed nor required.

    However your repentance is.

    A shame there is no judgement day because you trumpers would be burning bright.

  • Bones

    You mean like supporting cutting up journalists and executing innocent black boys.

    You’ve already got that covered.

  • Bones

    The wisdom of you and the other Trump morons as you sail on…

    https://youtu.be/ZHh0V7UjVXI

  • just say No

    America has fared better under President Trump than it did under President Obama because President Trump is leading the better political party and has surrounded himself with better people. President Trump’s character is about the same as President Obama’s or President Clinton’s.

  • Ben, where are you?

  • Matthew

    You too Ron.