Plot to bomb my old church

Mr. Veith, my father grew up in Miami (so I grew up knowing that strangers would stop you on the street to tell you, “No, it’s pronounced “my-am-uh”!). His parents ran a motel there. Do you happen to have known any Loveall’s from around there as you grew up?

Sam Loveall
Cary, NC

Dr. Veith,

Thanks be to God for stopping this man. One wonders what kind of thoughts go through ones mind to conceive such a plan.

Dr. Veith,

Haven’t even begun to read the blog today but always check the titles. Thank God your church and the others were spared from this man’s plans. I will read more on Strange Herring-sounds like mental illness.

We live in dangerous times (as Believers have for many centuries actually) and must continue praying for our Lord’s protection and mercy.

Thanks for the little explanation on the pronounciation of Miami. I didn’t know that.

Like the the sound of Oklahoma better.

You know, the old time, long resident residents of Miami, Florida call it My-am-muh too. There’s very few of those around anymore. But we knew some. Oh, what am I thinking, former Attorney General Janet Reno was from pioneer stock in South Florida. I do hope she keeps her large pythons well fed way out at her shacky house on the edge of the Everglades. She often came to the law school to enrage the students. There goes my “Leave Elian in America” attitude again.

Now, I can’t imagine that every church in your home county could be ugly; some of them must have some handsome or even beautiful quality to support keeping them upon the landscape.

But, I must say that most churche I see, need a blowing-out kind of experience to rid the horizon of their unbelievable ugliness. Purposeful ugliness in one’s placed of worship is a sin. Loveliness needn’t have more than a can of paint and a heart of caring.

You know in Germany in April and May of 1945, the allies bombed almost every single church and religious building in the country right down to the ground. Slaughter Five is one lovely read. Some of the most beautiful churches in the world were blown into breakfast serial. So that the survivors would have something to do when the alies came marching in 2 weeks later. I don’t know about you, but I don’t think that any allied leader really needed Hitler to tell them that the war was over and they could stop the bombing. It was Hitler’s fault for saying nothing. But men that wait on fools (Hitler) to talk, with most of the country occupied, bear some reqret for blowing up churches.

Touchy subject, really touchy subject. I was in Dresden on Reformation Day, 2005 for the official rededication of the Frauenkirche. Not to attend, only world leaders could do that, but just to be near. You can’t keep a good church down. Watching the wiederaufbau on the internet for 10 years I learned a new word, “trummerberg.” There is even a genre of films made in Germany in 1946 and later called trummer films.

May your churches never become a trummerberg, no matter how stupid your leaders may be.

Joanne #6

“You know in Germany in April and May of 1945, the allies bombed almost every single church and religious building in the country right down to the ground. Slaughter Five is one lovely read. Some of the most beautiful churches in the world were blown into breakfast serial.“

Are buildings worth more than human life (6 million JEWS) Beauty of a church represents, the beauty of God’s Word, HIS love for HIS chosen people to whom – – a denomination still holds at arms length?

Human life is worth more than a building. What is beauty? What is in-human? What is a child’s life, when he’s lost his manhood in a concentration camp, due to a surgery without anesthesia to remove that which is given to him as a boy to grow to a man, and then have a child? Without his penis he has no life as a husband or father.

You talk of buildings? Do buildings save a soul from hell? What is “breakfast serial” compared to a child’s life?

Who started that war? Who’s hatred manifested itself to take from, the Jewish people their businesses, homes, jewelry, children, parents and grandparents, and all all things of value. What excuse can you render from such a horrific deed?

Russian courts have determined that all churches and monasteries destroyed by the Communist government since 1917, must be returned to Church ownership and rebuilt at government expense. When you see Putin and Medvedev attending these huge rededication services in Russia, beyond the non-separation of church and state in Orthodoxy, they are also there to show everyone that the government is paying for it’s communist sins. And these new churches are at least as beautiful as they had been before destruction.

If one were to say that there is something inherently wrong with Germans and German culture and we have to wipe out the Germans and their culture, then what happened in the last few weeks of WWII would make perfect sense. People who object to the atomic bombing of Hiroshima and then Nagasaki, don’t make a peep about the fire bombing of the German cities when the country was almost defenseless. Read Vonnegut’s “Slaughterhouse 5” and get a sense of what was happening under the bombing.

In WWII we made war against women and children when we carpet bomed whole cities. The Germans lived in a totalitarian state just like the Russians did; all the same things were true. Parents could not talk in front of there children for fear the children would turn them in at school. Rumors got out about these “workers’ camps” and strange excesses of the eugenics movement, but who do you trust enough to say anything. Just repeating a rumor could get you a bunk in the “workers’ camp.” Ever hear of the Gestapo? They were looking for “rumor mongers.”

After the war, when schools were started again in Germany, the allies showed all the German children long films of the atrocities found in the “workers’ camp.” The children and their parents were horrified that such things should be pushed on their children. The parents hadn’t yet seen what had been found.

Totalitarian regimes do evil things because they can; the 20th century was the century of totalinarianism. Remember, most of these “Arbeit macht frei” camps were way off in Poland and upper Silesia. The average German could not just walk down to the corner concentration camp and ask to take a visit because you’d heard some rumors about inmate care. Even the average soldier had only heard rumors and how did they know it wasn’t just allied propaganda.

How do any of us know things? Will we ever really know what happened in the attack at Bengazi, as it seems were getting propaganda from our own government on the issue. But we can ask questions and demand answers. Try that in a totalitarian state. How much did the average Russian know about the gulag which involved many more for many more years than the 3rd Reich did, under its evil leader. And do you think that Churchill and Roosevelt didn’t know that Uncle Joe was evil too and had killed millions. They knew and sat cordially planning the big post war carve-up, that only ended in 1989.

The German Nationalist Socialist Workers’ Party, finding a perfect leader in Hitler, had a particular animus against communists and Jews. Yet you ask who started the war? The USSR and Germany did by invading Poland. The Polish have a crystal clear memory of that. But, one wonders why the USSR and Germany would form an alliance to conquer another country, knowing the animus the Reich had against communists, and Uncle Joe knew all about that because so many German communists had fled the USSR after Hitler came to power. Just two dictators playing war. If Hitler had not mistakenly believed unrealiable rumors that the USSR was about to attack Germany, as it turns out Uncle Joe was perfectly happy with the alliance and no USSR soldiers were massing at the border. It was probably the greatest mistake of the was and most likely the reason we won. It would have been a stroke of genius (think Churchill) for allied propaganda to have fooled Hitler into attacking his most powerful ally.

As for Hitler’s strange hatred of the Jews, well it was nothing new, almost every country in Europe at one time or other had thrown out all the Jews. But Hitler had Der Endlösung der Judenfrage, that was very hard to implement, but it was and million of Jews died as particular targets. WWII kill 10s of millions of people all over the world, but no people but the Jews, the Gays, the Jehovah Witnesses, and a few other small groups, were targeted for genocide. And if you didn’t measure up to the eugenic parameters for a master human, you were particularily targeted for the lethal injection.

Targeting the Jews was probably a bigger mistake than attacking Uncle Joe, if you take the long view. The laws in Germany for a long time had not allowed the Jews to study mechanical physics because they weren’t allowed to take those types of jobs, either work or teaching. So the Jews had all gone into the allowed subject of theoretical physics and is why the 20th century had so many famous and Jewish theoretical physicists. From that of course came the atomic bombs. Hitler’s stupid hatred put his scientists years behind the American Manhattan Project scientists who had fled from Hitler.

And, Hitler was a fool in making enemies of the most internationally integrated people with connections everywhere; well, Uncle Joe the Georgian, had been pretty much killing off the communist jews. But the Jews never forget, either a crime against them or a “Bitte.” They remember what king 3000 years ago was either kind or evil to them. If you want to be remembered forever for good or evil, deal with the Jews. Hitler chose to be remembered for evil, and so it is and will be. If only the communist crimes could get a champion to put them right like the Jews put the National Socialist crimes in the never forget box.

Joanne,

Your tome regarding WW2, has been written and rewritten by Germans and their friends for decades, it never changes, including the hearts, it’s nothing but a re-write to elevate whatever ‘rights’ they feel justified to share, which is nothing but blame to the Jews, including all other countries who share their shame.

I studied, and continue to do so to this day, WW2, since I was but 19 years old. I have seen and studied thousands of photographs of the camps, children who had by the Nazi’s hands, surgically removed their manhood. Thousands of Jewish bodies stacked up like garbage. Hatred of a people so sadistic, that it still permeates the landscape and pages of those who’s ancestors took part.

YOU WROTE: “After the war, when schools were started again in Germany, the allies showed all the German children long films of the atrocities found in the “workers’ camp.” The children and their parents were horrified that such things should be pushed on their children. The parents hadn’t yet seen what had been found.”

The parents knew, they weren’t ignorant of what went on. The children had every right to view the damage caused by their own people. The game that played with those loudly, protesting the “KNOWLEDGE” of such atrocities is a reminder of the inability to acknowledge their support of such treatment of the Jews, and then pretend they DIDN’T KNOW, all the while the smoke filled skies, and stench from the camps of burning flesh – the ODOR of HATRED and JEALOUSY.

As for the fire bombings of Dresden and Berlin; that doesn’t come close to the savage torment lasting for months and years of those who trudged down the road from the homes and business, with children in arms, to the GHETTO’S and then walking again to the trains that would transport them to the hell that was built out of hatred, to do things which man cannot imagine.

I interviewed many of these people when I lived near UCLA. The numbers on their arms, the pain in their eyes, the memories of a living hell, left by the Nazi’s.

The complaints of “firebombing” Dresden continue. After 6 million Jews were slaughterd, burned, gassed, expermented on, but yet poor Dresden should not have been stopped.

The city of Dresden had over 50,000 workers, 110 factories in support of the Nazi war effort, was not a totally “residential area” that’s nothing but a farce. That is no small support group. For the most part they owned, or worked for these factories, which spurred on the war effort, that was to be the demise of the Jews.

Dresden got what they deserved, when the British and U.S. bombed their Dresden. The Nazi’s were not ready to stop their wicked deeds. If it had not been for the bombings in Dresden, many more Jews would have suffered and died at the hands of the Nazi’s. Wasn’t that enough? .. or should the U.S. and the British stood by and begged Germany to stop the gassings, the horrific experiments on Jews and their children. I’ve seen endless photographs of children who’s genitals are mutilated, REMOVED, due to the hatred of Jews, by Nazi Germany, especially the little boys. Nothing would have ended that sort of horrific hatred, and painful experiments.

Maybe the vast majority of you have never seen the photos, I have. When I think of the pain and anguish these children went through, and their parentss, IF, IF they were ever to see their little boys again, the bombing of Dresden was justified!

May I recommend this book, because our heroine wind up in Sweden thinking about how different the Christianity there (plain old Lutheran still in those days) was from the Roman Christianity she had always known in Poland.

No pretty pictures : a child of war / Anita Lobel

I met her briefly at the de Grummond Childrens’ Book Festival at the University of Southern Mississippi. People kept pointing to her, a tall, dark woman dressed almost like a Gypsy princess, and under their voices said that she had survived the Nazis and had written an autbiography of her experience. I asked to be introduced, after viewing much of her Childrens’ book illustration, so I’d have something to say. Very brief but never forgotten.

I also, of course, attended her presentation and talk about her next book, that she had not only illustrated, but also wrote. It was a year of holidays book. She took all 12 months and featured a holiday in it or something special about the month. For December she had created a homey scene of a family and a Christmas tree. It was not overtly Christian, but she liked the symbol and wanted to use it.

She explained to us that her publisher refused to print the book with the Christmas tree or any mention of Christmas. They said it would limit the attraction of the buyer population. They had convinced her to put in a scene about winter and lots of snow and snow sports.

She felt she had betrayed herself by giving in as this of course made it less her book and more the publisher’s book. So told us to think about that when we read, of how much censoring of the authors is done by the publihers to keep the public interest as wide as possible.

Joanne @ 10—just put the book on my Amazon wish list so I won’t lose track of it. I wonder if a paperback version would have the photos in it? I didn’t read the full description.

Helen, It’s a very moving book. I know you will appreciate it.

Dr. Veith,
Most of the current residents of Miami, Florida pronounce it Mee-YAH-mee. A BFF’s mother died recently at 98, and she was buried in one of the old cemeteries in Miami. We were very fond of her and your comment about the pronunciation of Miami brought me dozens of memories of her saying My-am-uh. She was a hoot and for as long as we knew her she insisted that at 4:00 pm every afternoon was Happy Hour, time for a glass of wine. When we were close enough, we never missed her happy hour.

Grace @ 9
Your tome regarding WW2, has been written and rewritten by [non] Germans and their friends for decades, it never changes, including the hearts,

Twenty million died under Hitler, of whom six million were Jews. Who were the rest? First of all, the “useless mouths” of Germany, the old, the disabled, the mentally unfit, those of all ages in “state homes” for whatever reason, anyone who didn’t fit the image of the “Master race”… although Hitler himself was as far from the tall blond aryan as you could get!

Then similar ‘defective’ citizens of every nation in Europe under German occupation, Gypsies(Romany)
and anyone deemed to be a threat. Others were conscripted for labor in factories and starved as the war wound down and food was scarce in and out of the camps. A Pope went to one of the camps in Poland long after the war and spoke of the dead in twenty languages, nineteen of which have not had a propaganda machine to keep the Middle East at war ever since, at our expense.

Lutherans died and yet Lutheran Sunday School materials of the 80’s spent two Sundays on the Holocaust and not one word was in those pamphlets to let you know that Lutherans did resist. (Remember that there weren’t many Lutherans in Germany after the forced merger of the mid 1800’s sent many of them overseas, to America, (North and South) and Australia.)

A Lutheran Pastor from whom I took religion classes was an American Army Chaplain. He was there at the opening of one or more of the labor camps. Back at college he ‘papered’ the walls and ceiling of a 20 foot square room with 8×10 Army produced photographs of survivors and those who didn’t survive. His classes were asked to go to that room, sit in one of the chairs that were (as I remember it) the only furniture, and look at those pictures. We did it alone or in very small groups, and we discussed it in class.

Also, my Danish grandparents had numerous relatives “back home” who were not heard from for the duration of the war. After, the losses were counted. A friend in NJ was in Occupied Norway; her father who was at sea took his fishing vessel to New York and joined the American forces, as did many other Scandinavians. His family didn’t know if he was alive or dead till the war was over.

Sorry to be so long! I won’t visit this topic again.

As for Dresden, the war was finished by then; it wasn’t necessary to bomb Dresden. It saved no Jews. But Hitler had bombed London and many ancient churches were burned there, too. That is the best construction on that.

We were very much off topic!
I apologize for contributing to it.

helen @14“As for Dresden, the war was finished by then; it wasn’t necessary to bomb Dresden. It saved no Jews. But Hitler had bombed London and many ancient churches were burned there, too. That is the best construction on that.”

The war wasn’t finished until the “fire bomings” took place, from there it was only a few months later – the Germans could no longer make their goods to kill anymore Jews.

Try telling that TALE to those who have studied WW 2 history. You’re making excuses, of which there are thousands, all from the same group. You should be ashamed, but alas, you continue in the footsteps of others!