Alligator is considered a fish for lent

Okay, first of all, I have to express my bafflement at this statement (though it is hardly unique in such discussions):

Roman Catholics may not eat meat on Fridays during Lent, though they may eat fish.

I have never understood the claimed dichotomy between “meat” and “fish”. Fish is meat, it’s just, well, fish meat. I know from perusing dictionaries that Veith is not alone in using this distinction — sometimes, even poultry are, somehow, not considered meat. But, well, I don’t get it.

Which makes me wonder what, exactly, the rule is here. I’ve asked Catholics before, and they told me that, back in the day, “meat” (i.e., mammal flesh) was considered a luxury … while, I guess, fish wasn’t? So they were commanded to abstain from the luxurious meats on Fridays (somehow a reference to Good Friday), but lousy ol’ fish were okay. And thus, Friday night fish fries in the Midwest!

The thing is, nowadays, beef is cheap and frequently lousy. While fish keeps getting more expensive. Sure, a truly good cut of steak will cost you, but still. Eating something higher quality than cod hardly seems like any kind of sacrifice — if anything, it seems like a treat. So should the rule perhaps be revisited? (I kid; I know it won’t, but I still think it’s silly.)

This is evidently one of those vain traditions we’re warned about. It giving up things for Lent is about giving up luxuries, then substituting “fish” for beef has jumped the shark to that end. Beef is no luxury these days, as Todd notes. Alligator meat certainly is.

A capital idea! To celebrate, I will go get a hamburger at lunch!

This is what you get when you teach Law and not Grace.

A Catholic friend swears that the whole “only fish on Fridays” commandment came from an attempt to bolster the fishing industry as a favor to certain constituents (sound like modern politics?). But then again, I have read that it was about abstaining from rich meats, because they increased the passions in us. But with that justification, why are shrimp and crab allowed, because pound-for-pound, they are as rich as anything out there? In fact, if richness is the issue, birds should be the only thing eaten.
But then again, this isn’t surprising, because the RCC already allows shellfish, which aren’t fish, and because the whole thing is so difficult to justify anyway, so why bother making it consistent.

I still don’t get it.

Is this Lent “rule” just a personal piety thing, or do they believe that they actually score some points in the ol’ treasury o’ merit?

I’ve asked Catholic friends about it at Friday lunches, while I’m munching my double cheeseburger and they’re choking down their fillet o’whatever-it-really-is sandwich. They typically say, just because, or that’s what we do, or tradition. Well, then, why is it a “rule”?

I dunno. Maybe it’s just really the same thing as our Lutheran Wednesday night Lenten church soup suppers?

My understanding of this whole thing is that fish on Friday has nothing to do with whether it is a luxury or not. Jesus gave up his flesh on Friday, so to remember his sacrifice, we abstain from flesh.

I’m wondering though.. What about frogs? Turtles? Sea vs land turtles? Not that I would eat them, but some do.

Bubba (@12) said:

Keep in mind here that in the time of Aquinas, getting fish anywhere but on the coasts involved drying it, salting it, or (as you Luterns know all too well!) soaking it in lye and then serving it with cream sauce.

Yeah, no. First of all, you might want to consult this list. Secondly, you might want to consider that the vast number of Europeans live close to the coast — this was almost certainly more so in older times. Those that didn’t live near the coast very likely lived near a river or a lake.

FJSteve (@16), dolphins are fish.

Anyhow, if Steven’s quote from Aquinas (@10) at all hints at the underlying reason behind this prohibition, it just goes to show you how silly this all is:

generally speaking, eating flesh meat affords more pleasure than eating fish, although this is not always the case.

But let’s just go ahead and ban the eating of mammal and bird flesh, but allow fish. What are the odds someone would ever consider a nice ahi tuna steak more pleasurable than chicken? Thus, this rule should never be questioned or examined, for all time.

So what’s that mean for our Louisiana Archibishop? Though he calls the alligator a “magnificent creature”, is his dispensation actually a backhanded criticism: “(but no one takes pleasure in eating the nasty things!)”?

And, again, we all know it tastes like chicken (that’s my memory, at least). Chicken is prohibited on Fridays during Lent. Hello?

Not that I want to be an apologist for Roman Catholic practices, but perhaps some credit is due here.

First, I cannot help but say that the whole concept of a “forced” fast ruins the whole thing. That is just wrong headed and runs in a meritorious way that is contrary to the scripture.

Nevertheless, the practice is more consistent and humane that we are crediting here. There is a first-fruits simplicity here in suggesting that once a week we give up our “main course,” as it were, during a penitential season of the year. If not for the fact that it is prescribed as an obligation and thus becomes something ridiculously easy to circumvent by gorging on some other main course, we might even think that it is a pretty solid practice. But it IS prescribed and thus ridiculous.

Still, the exceptions (historically, at least. I cannot speak for the gator) have generally been for the sake of the poor. I know was the case regarding the Muskrat, at least. The French trappers that first settled the region were very poor, and there was no fishing industry to supply them in an affordable way. They were therefore given dispensation to eat the staple food of the animals they trapped as a concession for their poverty. I don’t know the history of the fish, but I would guess that whatever it has become in papal casuistry, the origin was in some concession to the poor. The bishops were not all bad.

Of course, poverty hardly seems to be a concern in the USA, and gator is more an exotic food than a staple of the poor, but then again, this letter seems to be more in the way of a clarification of papal “law” than a pastoral decision by the bishop.

Kempin04 @ 19
Of course, poverty hardly seems to be a concern in the USA,
and gator is more an exotic food than a staple of the poor,

Alligators may be more of a concession to the poor in the bayous of Louisiana
than it would be to me, if I ordered it at Pappadeaux’ tonight.
Things from your own back yard are always cheapest.

[Actually, I think I’ll have shrimp fried rice at Pei Wei.]

Here is what the Catholic Answers website says about their Lenten practice. It doesn’t answer the alligator question, but then I didn’t ask it. 🙂

“Catholics use a practice similar to Daniel’s when, as a way of commemorating Christ’s Crucifixion on a Friday, they abstain from eating meat on that day of the week during Lent. The only kind of flesh they eat on Friday is fish, which is a symbol of Christ.”

Booklover (@23), that answer is interesting, if also at odds with what other Catholic sources have said.

After all, that same logic should lead one to the conclusion that it’s also okay to eat lamb on Fridays during Lent. Right? Likewise, it would also make me think that alligator would not qualify.

I’m reminded of Mark Twain’s quip: How many legs does a dog have if we call the tail a leg? Four. Calling a tale a leg does not make it so.

eating flesh meat affords more pleasure than eating fish

Clearly Thomas has never eaten sushi.

The story I remember from my catechism days is Fish was allowed in an effort to help the fishermen maintain their trade. Of course, as you read scripture, you see Christ dining on fish with His Apostles, who were, of course fishermen. The word Carnival comes from the fatted calf that was paraded through the streets on Mardi Gras. The Greeks and Romans also sacrificed bulls to their gods. As a young girl, we Catholic “mackerel smackers” abstained from meat, excluding fish on all Fridays, not simply during Lent. It is a discipline that some Catholics still maintain. Historically, some saints abstained and fasted not only on Fridays, but also on Wednesdays, from a tradition holding that Christ was actually arrested on Tuesday. Catholics have never been required to eat fish on Fridays.
A more recent custom in many parishes is the rice bowl. A recipe for a simple meal, such as Spanish rice, that a poor family might eat, is given. The meal is prepared and the money saved is given as alms at the end of Lent to help families who struggle making ends meet throughout the year. The Lenten Fast is one regular size meal, and two smaller meals with no snacks.