Walking in Unity: Krista Bontrager & Monique Duson Interview

Interview with Krista Bontrager and Monique Duson, Authors of Walking In Unity

If you would like to watch the Interview Video here is the link.

Firstly, what I would like everyone to know who doesn’t already know y’all is that: you ladies are family. And if you watch any podcast of yours and participate in the chat, then you really feel like you are part of the Center for Biblical Unity family too. 

When you witness Monique and Krista’s bond in Christ in action, it’s a beautiful back and forth to behold. Not only will you be laughing and smiling from your soul, you will also be graciously educated. Church we need to live, laugh, and learn! 

This book reads like a coffee shop chat and a class lecture all rolled into one- I thank you both for that! In reading Walking in Unity, I knew I was going to get your hero origin story as a Christian Truth Blasting duo. I know you both to be incredibly based, versed in Scripture, learned in theology, knowledgeable in matters like critical race theory, well researched, etc. but I was still so surprised in how the book marries rich, academic content with your story of an “unlikely friendship.” 

Let’s get started with the questions. 

1. When you say you walked your way into unity, you literally mean it! Your walks even shaped your ministry, Center for Biblical Unity. Each chapter addresses tough questions you worked through together in regards to race (ethnicity) and or unity. It’s safe to say that at the beginning of your friendship you held opposing beliefs regarding race and all that surrounds it. Through your book, you allowed us to see how a real Christian friendship works by sharing the good and the bad. Monique, I love this authentic quote by you: “Instead of retreating permanently into avoidant silence of escalating until we burned down the friendship, we learned to enter those difficult conversations with more grace and humility because the other person was worth it (Walking in Unity, p. 21).” Can both of you discuss the importance of the Body of Christ and fighting for your friendship? Is there Scripture you kept coming back to that helped you stick together?

Monique: Gosh, I think, I don’t know if there were Scripture that I kept coming back to.

I think think as I remembered or and learned about what the word says about us as family, she, Krista just became my sister. And the way I was raised was that, you know, hey, if we have an argument, we have an argument.

You’re still my sister.

I think that is what kind of just made, I made me, I can’t speak for Krista, but made me very confident that whatever happened, we would, you know, get through it because we’re family.

I do think that was a different way of operating for Krista though because she was an only child, or she is an only child, or not truly an only child, but she was raised by a single mom as an only child, I’ll say that way.

And so this idea of arguing with siblings and, you know, we’ll, we’ll try again tomorrow.

I don’t like you tonight, but tomorrow we’ll try again.

You know, that was a bit new for her, I think. Yeah, for me, I think it really was the idea of family that just reminded me because of the way my mom had raised me, that we’re family.

And so whether I we argue or fight or, you know, agree or disagree right now, we’re still gonna wake up in the morning, we’re gonna be family, we’re gonna continue to fight for each other.

Krista Bontrager: Yeah, I agree. I I think that that’s a really good way of saying it. I think I learned that over time, that as I saw that Monique wanted to stay in the friendship hearing that there were moments where we were like, “I don’t like you today.”

I learned over time that that attachment was strong and that  we were still gonna be family.

We were gonna be friends. We were going to hang on to the relationship even when there was a difficult conversation or when things had just gone very badly wrong in the conversation that day.

There was tomorrow and, as it says in the Anne of Green Gables’ movie,

“Tomorrow is a day with no mistakes in it yet.”

And there were many times when I would tell myself that and we will try again tomorrow. And I think that just having that foundation of the familial bond of being sisters in Christ as the thing that was of first importance really kept us going.

Gillian: I love that. And of course you had to put Anne in there, so you got us, you got us with that.

2. Your book exposes the works-based system of Racial Reconciliation; a framework that is shaping a good portion of the modern Church. You are proposing an alternative: the Biblical Unity Model. Where Racial Reconciliation comes from a sociological basis, the Biblical Unity Model is Scripturally based. Can you speak on the difference the gospel makes when we are living out God’s family plan? 

MD: Oh, that’s, that’s a great question. You know, I would first wanna offer just a little bit of insider information into the distinctions between racial reconciliation and our biblical unity model and approach. 

From a racial reconciliation perspective, and I know many people in many churches are proponents of racial reconciliation ’cause it’s really the only framework that the church has had to be able to talk about racial unity.

But much today, much of our racial reconciliation framework is really founded in anti-racism.

And so it’s not that it’s a  distinctly biblical way to approach issues of race, racism or justice.

It is a secular framework that people have now really kind of baptized in Jesus and their wanting to put forward as the way forward, you know, to get to unity. But as we’ve investigated and read books on racial reconciliation and anti-racism, and as I used to be a proponent of both frameworks, what we’ve come to see is that the Scriptures actually do give us a framework for unity.

And so in our book, Walking In Unity, we really break this down into four distinct pillars. Looking at first, what do, what do all humans have in common?

That would be our Creation Identity. You can go back to the Book of Genesis and look at the Creation mandate. 

• All people are either created male or female.
• We see two distinct sexes.
• We see that people are meant to work, but even more than this. 

All people are created in God’s image.

All people are created with the capacity for marriage and, and procreation. and even if I will say this, even if you do not marry or procreate, it is not that you are not created in God’s image with dignity, value, and worth.

What we see is that marriage and procreation are part of God’s good design for human flourishing. 

Next, we talk about our salvation identity. So this will be pillar two. How are Christians distinct from the rest of God’s creation? And how does the Scripture and New Testament speak about us as believers?

What is our identity now that we are in Christ?

The third pillar would be matters of providence. What has God providentially allowed for me

or for you that you had no hand in changing, you had no hand in your skin color or the socioeconomic status that you would be born into, or the, the parents that you have

or the family that you were born into.

You know, it, it isn’t always easy, but if God did not see fit to change it, we can see or say that it was by His providential allowance.

And then next in our model that makes us distinct really from the anti-racist model or, you know, that racial reconciliation model is that we also have a fourth pillar called walking in unity.

And that’s where we really dig into the Scriptures.

We’ve seen our creation identity, what we all have in common. We’ve seen what Christians have in common and how we are distinctly different. We’ve looked at our matters of providence, but now we’re looking at what does the Scripture say for us to walk in unity as believers.

And so that is, I think one of the core things that make us truly distinct from the racial reconciliation model is that our matters of providence aren’t at the forefront.

You know, I’m not a black Christian. I am a Christian who happens to bear black skin.

And then when we think about the ways that we can walk together in unity, it’s based on Scripture. It’s not based on anthropology or sociology or any of those things.

We are looking to the Scriptures first. And then if there happens to be any overlap with a secular framework, we can acknowledge that. I’m not opposed to acknowledging where sociological frameworks may borrow from our worldview, but we are gonna go to Scripture first.

Krista, do you wanna share a shed light or add anything?

KB: Yeah, just to one, one I think key distinction of our model that you just boil it all down, is that for us, unity specifically, the unity that we have in Christ is our starting point.

It is not a destination to be achieved through works.

And so the racial reconciliation model, while the Christian version of it will acknowledge that we are family and we are brothers and sisters, there’s, there’s always a sense of striving and works that must be done before real unity can be enjoyed and shared.

Whereas our model says, “No, we are family.”

There’s no way for us to be more family through our works, just as we’re just born into a family.

And it just is what it is.

We have our siblings and the crazy uncle and all of the, all that goes with it that we are a family, and that is a meaningful starting point for the conversation and that we are reconciled.

That is a present reality, not a destination to be achieved.

MD: You know, if I can add even one more thing, sorry, is that people, and, and with our model, people are not guilty or complicit simply by skin color, nor are you a victim or marginalized simply because of your skin color.

We wanna make sure that we are clear on that, that we, you know, as the Bible says, we require evidence. So the way that, you know, an anti-racist framework would say that wherever there is disparities within, you know, black and white, there is a presence of racism.

You know, so if, if blacks are on the lower end of the wealth gap, that is automatically the presence of racism.

We would ask for evidence that racism is truly at play. We are not just grouping people together based on skin color or ethnicity.

GN: Praise God. I hear this message and it’s like hearing the gospel all over again.

You know, it’s grace and I thank you for that.

The world just, we need grace. It’s amazing after all! 

3. Do you have any words of encouragement for those who have been hurt, misled, and feel lost after going through the Racial Reconciliation framework?

KB: I think this is such a great question. We, I don’t know if anybody’s ever asked us that before on a, on a interview. 

So I, I’m really grateful for it because one of the reasons that Monique and I founded the Center for Biblical Unity, it was to be a safe harbor for people who have been injured by the critical social theories and diversity, equity and inclusion, which is, you know, kind of the praxis of the critical social theories and racial reconciliation models.

We get many letters at the ministry from people who participated in Christian groups, such as Be the Bridge back in 2020, 2021.

And they’ll, they’ll often say, well, you know, I found one or two helpful things. I kind of learned a little bit more about my bias, but they weren’t aware that Be the Bridge was utilizing aspects of critical race theory and anti-racism as part of their reconciliation model.

And then they find our ministry and like, wow, this is, this is a really different approach.

And we run book groups, we run classes. And part of the reason why we do that, and the way you started this whole conversation is when people come our on our stream, we want them to feel like, Hey, if you’re in Christ, you’re a brother and sister in the Lord with me.

I wanna regard you with honor and dignity in that way.

And so, you know, that is a meaningful starting point. It’s healing for people.

I can’t tell you how many times people are like, this is so different than what I experienced when I was in the racial reconciliation side of things and trying to use that approach and it wasn’t working.

I come over here, I feel loved, I feel accepted, I could make a mistake.

There’s grace.

I can ask an awkward question and you’ll help me understand something I’ve learned so much. And we try to do it in an environment without shame, without, um, putting people down or immediately giving them a correction because of their skin color.

We might ask hard questions.

We might encourage people to think about their position or reconsider some piece of data that maybe they’ve never thought about before.

So that doesn’t mean we skirt around difficult issues, but, people definitely find healing in what the work that we’re doing.

GN: Thank you so much for that.

4. Could you give our audience ideas for how they can present the Biblical Unity Model to their congregation’s leadership as a biblical replacement for Racial Reconciliation?

MD: Yeah, I I would definitely say, I would say start out with questions. You know it can be difficult- I’ve learned to just start out with the thing that you don’t like, like, “You know, this doesn’t work or that’s stupid.” 

That is my go-to like, you want to hear me and Krista on a good day. That’s just me. “Like, that’s dumb. Why you doing that? Da da da.” 

That doesn’t go so well.

I’ll speak from experience. What I’ve learned is to lead with questions and now Krista will tell you, you haven’t learned that well, but I’m trying, I’m getting better today.

And so, you know, if, if your church is into Be the Bridge or you you’re reading things like White Fragility or oh, what’s my little book here? When God Became White?

You know, if, if you’re reading things like that as opposed to something like Walking in Unity, I would say, see, yes, I would say talk to the leadership, but start out with questions.

Start out with, “Can you help me understand, what went into selecting this curriculum?”

“Can you help me understand what you appreciate about this curriculum? Or about this book, this author?”

“Can you help me understand their biblical warrant? Where, what is the biblical warrant that they’re putting forward?” A lot of times their biblical warrant, they will have biblical warrant, especially if they’re a Christian. If it’s like Jemar Tisby, or, Christina Edmondson, she wrote, Faithful Anti-Racism, but their warrant, their biblical warrant is usually taken out of context.

And so ask, well is this, is this Bible verse actually in context, but that means that you actually have to know the context of the passages before you go and have any of these conversations.

And then ask, “Is this meant to be and this is now, this is a cultural word that many churches and Christian authors who are on the racial reconciliation side are using, is this meant to be ‘equitable’ toward all people?”

Like, is this meant to bring all people? Is this meant to be a conversation where we are truly fair and just to all people?

Or are we only doing equity in the work of good justice for marginalized quote unquote marginalized people?

Because see in the church, we shouldn’t be playing by partiality.

So we should not say, well, we’re gonna go and, you know, specifically just only talk about racism for blacks.

No. How can we talk about racism for all people? Like how do I give you an understanding of what racism is and then we can stand against racism wherever we see it?

So I, I used to be a proponent of we need to do racial justice only for black people.

But that’s not my position anymore today because my worldview has shifted, I guess I know we need to do racial justice for anyone who’s impacted by racism, but you also have to be willing to acknowledge that racism can impact any person.

Many people who uphold racial reconciliation or anti-racism would say that white people cannot be impacted by racism.

So it’s, it’s a bit of a distinction.

But going back to your original question to bring in another book like Walking In Unity, I would ask after I’ve asked all my other questions about the other side and, and their thinking and bringing it in, I would ask, “Would you be willing to read a voice from the other side?” “Voices who may not sound like this?” 

And then buy them a copy of Walking in Unity or you know, another book that is tackling the subject from that position that you’re wanting to influence them in, and then ask if they would be willing to read it and have a follow-up conversation.

KB: Yeah, I think that’s good advice. That’s kind of how I see it. Yeah, that’s good advice.

I would just add, like if you see your church is reading Be the Bridge, or you’re in your book group and they wanna do Faithful Anti-Racism or something, don’t freak out.

Don’t just become a bundle of emotions, and start saying a bunch of stuff and just stay calm.

Do your homework, ask some questions, ask follow up questions, and also make sure that you’ve taken the time to read these other books so that you’re not just so villainizing them that you don’t actually, you aren’t actually engaged in the, the real ideas.

And then you’re just setting up a bunch of straw men, and being emotional and hysterical.

And that’s, that’s not gonna give you a platform where people are gonna take your concerns seriously.

So you, you’re gonna have to do some homework.

We run book clubs at Center for Biblical Unity to help people read primary sources to be conversant on these issues. And, but you’re gonna have to discipline yourself to just ask questions, be informed, do some homework, and try to be in the conversation.

GN: Yes, okay. CFBU has been so helpful in really shepherding me to the primary sources.

I was like, no, I do not want to do that. But how are we gonna witness, right?

So I had a lot of help from your ministry and then also from Southern Evangelical Seminary where I’ve taken classes.

We gotta do it, we gotta do it. So thank you.

I that’s great ideas from both of you on that. 

MD: You know, when we think about primary sources, yes, you can use it to be a witness, but to me, especially for parents, you read the primary sources to be able to defend your kid, to be able to understand what your child is encountering because these primary sources are letting you know exactly what’s happening in your kids’ schools, on their soccer teams, in their youth groups, by their youth leaders who have been educated in woke seminaries and things like that.

It’s great if I can go out and, and meet a stranger and say, oh, why do you believe that?

Like, sure, and I’m all about witnessing, I’m all about, you know, evangelism and Matthew 28 and things like that, but when you come from my kid, I need to know exactly what’s going on because I’m gonna fight for my kid in a way that I might not fight for the person who, who’s sitting on the bus bench next to me.

You know what I mean? Like that that information from that primary source is going to give you a platform to be able to fight for your child or for your job position in a way that you wouldn’t if you didn’t know that primary source.

GN: Beautiful. Monique, guess what? You segued us into the next question perfectly. Thank you! 

I like to say that I’m not a mama bear. I’m a mama badger. I don’t stop. So I love that. I love it.

5. Both of you have a background in serving children either in ministry or in homeschooling. Can you elaborate for parents and or teachers how we can help children learn about their Creation and Salvation Identity as well as what you would call their “matters of providence?”

KB: Yeah, again, I, I love this question and if people want more details, we did an entire podcast just about the parenting component over at our friends at the Maven Parent podcast, if people wanna check that out

So it’s like an hour long conversation, but just to sort of offer a couple of quick tips here is when I was a homeschool mom and, and just hanging out with my kids all the time, you know, there is such importance in helping them interpret their everyday life.

So wherever we were going, whether we were in the van driving around or going to Target or whatever we were doing, I was always taking my kids with me. 

I was taking ’em to vote with me even when they were tiny.

And, you know, I took them with me when I would speak and I would, you know, incorporate them into my speaking by having them hand out the handouts.

And, you know, I would tell them as they got older, as you’re listening to my talk today, even if you don’t understand everything, I want you to write down five questions about what we, that you have about what I said, and then we’ll talk about them at lunch.

I mean, I was just constantly trying to think of how am I going to get them engaged in these issues from a young age? 

And so you’re wanting to build in them a sense of dialogue and, but also being intentional about the topics that you raise because they don’t always know the topics to race.

Sometimes they do, but sometimes you as a parent know, like, we gotta have a talk about this and I wanna get to them before the culture gets to them.

So you wanna almost be having a conversation about their self-concept and their creating dignity, and even if they’re, they’re, no matter what their ethnicity is, there’s gonna be certain challenges for them.

And so you’re gonna wanna be building them up in the strength of their resilience emotionally from a very young age.

And if, if you’re late to the game, that’s okay. Like one of the things I remember telling my kids was, if you get bullied, in at, when you go to the co-op or you get bullied when you’re in a class, like you need to know how to stand up for yourself.

And I raised two daughters and I sent them to Jiujitsu.

Like they, they were not excelling at it, but they learned a mindset of I will not be run over and so, and I will not be in trouble, for standing up for myself.

And kids need that messaging to them that if somebody comes for your dignity as you know, matter, no matter what your race is or your, or your sex, you know, and they’re just saying horrible, terrible things about you, that kid needs to know it’s okay to stand up for themselves, that they’ve been created in the image of God, and it’s okay to push back.

Like those are messages that we need to be giving to our kids and building them up in that early and often.

MD: I would also just to add like, what is helping kids understand what is true? What are some of the things that are true about all people?

What are the good things about people?

But really grounding things in, in objective truth.

I love the idea of, you know, that Krista put forward of not letting your kid be bullied, like allowing your kid to understand that hey, you actually have dignity, value, and worth be, not because you’re this great child, but because you’re created in the image of God.

So what is true about people?

And once we understand what’s true about people, we can also teach them, you know, how do I treat others? And you can look in things in the Old Testament and in the New Testament, you know, like why is it important that the Old Testament lays out so many ways in which we, we should treat one another?

It’s because we are created in the image of God. 

The same with the New Testament, especially how do we treat one another like as believers, you know, there’s a distinction between a person who is a creation of God and a person who’s a child of God, and helping your children to understand those things are also important.

And so yeah, that would be some of what I would add in relation to looking at some of our pillars.

6. How has God surprised you in regards to the reception of this book and your story? 

MD: Oh, oh, that’s an interesting question.

KB: I think that this whole ministry has surprised us. There, we were just living our lives in our, you know, Monique had come to live with my family in June of 2018, and she just had to make a very quick transition off the mission field, and she came to live with us.

So we were just living our lives.

You know, Monique was working at a multi-site, food pantry as the director and I was working at a major international Christian apologetics ministry, and we were just living our lives.

And then we had done a few videos in I kind of dragged Monique along in, in doing some videos and started our, our All the Things podcast.

But, you know, those videos had 30 views, 50 views.

I mean, they, we, we weren’t exactly changing the world there.

And I kind of felt an intuition in my heart that this was a major challenge to the faith, and was an entire area of apologetics that could be developed, even though nobody at that time was really talking about it other than Neil Shenvi.

But I could envision a whole ministry about it, but I didn’t necessarily think that we were that ministry.

But I thought, you know, we’ll make a few videos, and we’ll just kind of put it out there and see, my husband always encourages me of, you know, just sow some seed and see what the Lord does with it.

And so when the George Floyd situation happened, and all of a sudden, you know, there was a couple of viral situations that involved us that was through no planning or plotting of our own.

And all of a sudden our videos that had had 35 views, we had 35 followers on Facebook.

We went from 35 followers to 8,000 followers in a few days.

And so in the beginning, we were both still working full time and doing our thing, and it was not like we went out and pursued this at all.

And so God has surprised us in really big ways and, and to be put in ministry with another person was also another surprise.

You know, I thought, well, maybe when I, my kids graduate and I, you know, maybe I could develop my own teaching ministry or do more with my YouTube channel. That was kind of in the back of my mind.

But it never occurred to me that to be in a partnership with another person and now like the, we’re this team with each with different areas of expertise and experience and cultures, and now we’re coming together to do this other thing together. The whole thing has just been surprising.

MD: So, gosh, have I been, um, surprised by the reception of the book book?

I think I didn’t know what to expect from the book. I think I’m, I’m more surprised that we haven’t had more people like wanting to burn down our office.I think that’s what’s more–

KB: Totally, I was expecting, I had months and months of a terrible crippling anxiety. ‘Cause I thought we were gonna get so much pushback about it.

MD: And, and I was ready for like, I am here for it.

Like, if you wanna tussle, I’m here. I’m your girl. Okay.

But, part of, and I, I completely agree with Krista, like,

I would’ve never thought that I would be in ministry with like, as a partner with someone else.

It’s, it’s difficult.

Like, I think people, people see us and they’re like, man, they, they really do unity well, and I mean, I think we do, but we have to do it in order to actually kind of like rules that it’s possible.

Because there are a lot of days when I’m sure Krista is like, it would be easy for me to be the center for Biblical unit.

Like, I’m just one unit.

Okay, this, it’s the “ty” the unity, the together that kind of blows your mind and makes you crazy. And you know, like we’re both headstrong.

We’re both like, if you don’t like it, you’ll get over it.

Oh, well, that’s kind of just the way I live my life and, you know, so it’s, it’s not easy all the time.

Now, do we love each other? Are we always gonna walk? Sure.

Like, as long as the Lord, you know, has the same, but that doesn’t mean that it’s easy.

And so I think the way that people have received us, has been very gracious.

I’m very like humbled by it and not just, you know, the book, but the entire ministry because this ministry was really birthed out of a lot of arguments, you know?

And so the fact that we can use our arguments to help people understand that unity isn’t easy, but it’s definitely worth maintaining, as Paul says in Ephesians four.

And even if it wasn’t worth maintaining, our, the command, the instruction and Scripture is to maintain it. And so, you know, it, it is, it’s very humbling. I’ll say that. It’s very humbling.

7. Your book is jam-packed with bonus material! I particularly loved how it speaks on the lost art of effort. You share how effort is needed in pursuing unity in relationships, gathering evidence, interpreting Scripture in context, and generous listening to name a few! How can we as parents impress the need for effort in life upon our children when the world is being programmed not to think for themselves?

KB: Oh, that’s a great question.

Something that as a parent, I really tried to be intentional about from a young age.

Now I’m going give some things away here. How, what kind of parent I was,

well, both my kids are grown.

Their age is 21 and 25, but when they were small, I started it early.

We did not give them money, for example. Anything that I wanted them to connect, work with money. And so when they’re, they were young, like, and I’m talking about like six and three, like very, very young.

They had to collect bottles and cans in order to get money.

And so the older one had the idea of, well, we can hit up the grandparents and have the grandparents save the bottles and cans too.

And so that was how they got money, was saving the bottles and cans, and they were in charge of when we went to the dump, they had to sort them all.

And you know, we made them do the work of getting them in the car. And all of this, and this is a small thing, but it’s these kinds of efforts that parents must do to build a value system into the child.

Because everything in the culture programs the child toward ease.

And so you have to, as a Christian parent, actually allow for a fine tuned amount of suffering, difficulty and hard work.

Now, if there’s too much difficulty like trauma, like divorce or abuse, then the child can become despondent.

But children need adversity in order to develop resilience.

And so the kind of the major R’s that my husband and I tried to instill in our children was resilience, responsibility, and respect. And so we had to figure out how will we do this? So one of the things we did was we did not get the, give them money.

We did not allow them unfettered access to the internet.

And from a young age, you know, really working to make sure that they had, um, they had to put effort into things.

But this is hard. 

And as parents, we can be lazy. And so it takes vigilance on our part.

It also takes building a good example. If our children see that we put effort into things, they will copy that, but we cannot tell them, you must put effort into something when we are lazy.

And so we have to lead by example.

So those are a few thoughts off the top of my head.

MD: I don’t have anything to add. I was just gonna also say modeling, but Krista already hit on it, making sure that you’re modeling, um, what this looks like.

You know, if you wanna, you know, sit back and, you know, as a parent and be lazy and your kid does all the work, they will become bitter.

You know? And, and I I would also say though that, you know, as Krista mentioned, the effort should have payoff.

Yeah. So we don’t wanna work our kids to the ground and there’s no payoff, you know, offer them opportunities to see the benefit or the reward of their work.

KB: Yeah. And I think like a, an example in our own family, I have a close family member who is a member of the church of Jesus Christ, of Latter Day Saints.

And that person came into our lives when my children were fairly young, and they watched me walk that road with that person of this is how you deal graciously with someone who is in a different religion, and this is how you stand up for the truth, and this is how you share the Lord,

and this is how you advocate for these positions.

And I think that that stayed with my kids of, oh, I can have people in my life from different worldview perspectives, but I know how to have that conversation and to stand strong.

A piece of feedback that our older daughter has given to me is that I have another friend who’s orthodox and converted to being Eastern Orthodox.

About halfway through my daughter’s childhood and my daughter seeing me and watching me

and observing me walk that road with that friend of I didn’t, you know, just burn down the friendship when she converted to Eastern Orthodoxy, we walked that road together.

And she has seen the value of that taught her a lot of lessons about how, how to hold onto the faith, the historic nature of the faith, and how to walk a road with somebody when even when they change their position. And how to stay in that conversation graciously.

GN: I think it’s just a different, a different book, but same, but same walking in unity, right?

I mean, it takes effort. Like this takes effort and people are worth it.

8. I love food almost as much as my family. There’s a gourmet hot dog restaurant here in Katy, TX where the owners yell: “Hi Family!” to every person that enters. I melt like cheese with that warm greeting. In your 9 principles for how to have healthy interactions with others about race,  there’s “Principle 3: Integrate “Family” Language into Conversation.”

So how can the church remember to do this in today’s world?

MD: Be grounded in Scripture, be grounded in the New Testament.

Like I didn’t make it up, you know what I mean? Like, I just, I took it from the Scriptures,

I took it from Ephesians where we’re brothers and sisters, I took it from, um, where, where

Paul says, I wanna say it’s in Galatians three, neither Jew nor Gentile, um, but all our one, and you know, like in all, or one in Christ, it might, that might actually be Colossians, but it is, that’s the language of Scripture. Christ no longer calls us, calls us friends, but brothers or we’re not strangers, we’re family.

It’s saying John one, where, he gave the right to become children of God. 

Like family language is like just thrown throughout the New Testament, and I love it.

You know what I mean? Like, I, I have really learned to believe it and to love it and to live it.

And so when I get up on a stage and I’m like, “Hey, family,” it is really that. 

I do wanna take the edge off. I mean, in our post 2020 world, when you see a black woman get up on stage to talk about race, it can go very poorly or you know, you can be a little hopeful and it’ll go very well.

Well, I really want people to, to have a good experience so that they can hear even the hard truth that I have to deliver.

Because just because I’m talking about race, justice, and unity doesn’t mean I I don’t have to deliver a hard truth, you know?

And so, but I, I want people to understand that I’m delivering it not as your anti-racist condemner, but I am delivering a hard truth as your sister, as someone who loves you, who wants your best.

And so, and that’s, that’s, you know, what I learned from Krista as my paradigm was falling down and I needed someone to deliver truth to me, but truth and love and sometimes a, a very hard truth.

You know, sometimes that love does, it don’t feel like love when it’s being delivered, but if I can at least invite you into the realm or the possibility that we’re family, you know, that I find that it really helps break down a lot of the hard barriers that people have.

And very rightly some put up post a George Floyd world. And then when I meet people when, you know, like in an, in an audience or just on a one-on-one, and I’m like, what’s up sis?

Or how you doing fam?

It, right there in that moment, it is relational.

It’s not, oh, you know, I’m nervous to meet you or, you know, you’re always seen everywhere.

That’s, that’s not what Krista and I are here for. We’re really here for the relationship and to, to break down some of that Christian pop star culture that we can be so good at erecting.

KB: Yeah, yeah.

No, I, I don’t really have anything to add that I think, you know, I just think about the Lord’s prayer starts off with “Our Father.”

Yeah. I mean, the most basic way of praying is using family language.

God wants us to relate to him as a father, and he wants us to relate to one another as brothers and sisters.

And Jesus is like our big brother that he has gone before us and set the example.

And so that family language is just everywhere. And when we use the language of heaven, when we use the language that God uses in how he talks about us, to me, that’s, that’s the starting point.

That’s the ideal because then it orients my heart posture toward this person.

And it’s not just, well, this is my oppressor, or I’m so oppressed, it’s okay, how do I use more biblical language in my everyday life?

And then what emotional and mental difference does that make in how I think about people, how I see people and what, for lack of a better term, what new reality is created because we’re using language in a more biblical and intentional way.

MD: I would also add to that is, um, it helps us to defend the family, to recognize if something is going on that is unjust.

And so I was raised to defend, I’m the oldest, and so I was raised that, you know, if if somebody wants to fight my brother, I have to jump in and I have to fight too.

And I see that that’s the reality for me as I walk with other Christians, regardless of their skin color.

It is if somebody doing you wrong, it’s time for us to fight.

You know what I mean? And, but that’s not always the attitude that we hold if that’s, well, you know, that’s just sister so and so, you know, we go to church together.

I might see her on a Sunday, we might sit in the same pew.

But you know, it, it’s, it’s more than just using the, the verbiage, the nomenclature.

It’s more than that. It’s the reality.

It’s living from that reality. There’s a distinction.

KB: Yeah. And I think like a practical example or impact of that is, you know, when you really know what’s happening in your brothers and sisters’ lives  you have more empathy for them.

And some people from certain ethnicities might not know what people from other ethnicities are going through if they don’t ever have meaningful relationship or deep connection with anybody who’s outside of their cultural group.

Now it takes effort, and I’m not suggesting that everyone must, or is a sin if you don’t have somebody outside of your cultural group.

But I do think that when there is that knowledge and so is a very simple example sometimes when I talk to African Americans they are unaware of what some white people go through in diversity trainings.

And, and that’s new information for them.

They’re like, wait, what? You know?

And likewise, when we talk to some white people, they don’t know about the history of Emmett Till or Black Wall Street, but if we’re in a meaningful relationship with each other, that changes things.

And so if you’re in a situation in a training at a Christian ministry and you’re starting to like notice that there’s a bunch of piling on of, of white people and, and trying to get them to do things and make certain statements and everything, my hope is that the other Christians in the room was who are not white, who are minorities, is say, “Hey now, wait a minute, this has gotta stop.” And stand up for that.

But my also, I hope the reverse is that if white people notice that a particular minority is being targeted, that they will also speak up and say, “hold on, hold on. This, this is out of bounds.”

But in order to do that, we have to know our worldview.

We have to really know what, what the Bible teaches about these things.

GN: Absolutely agree. For sure.

So I would like to close by stating that I have seen firsthand how this model has brought healing to the church body as a member of your book club where both of you led myself and about  or so others through your book, it was humbling to watch God move in the lives of people putting this into practice.

I saw some healing tears and heard some very powerful thoughts and, and stories.

So I hope people will have the courage to invite friends to go through the book to,  purchase the small group discussion videos.

Those were an excellent resource. I mean, masterfully done So helpful.

I hope that people will become a part of the Center for Biblical Unity family, and watch your hugely helpful podcasts as well.

And I thank you so much Monique and Krista for being brave, and for serving the Lord with your story.

How to Connect with Krista and Monique: 

Krista Bontrager is a fourth-generation Bible teacher. She is an author, podcaster, former university professor and homeschool mom. Krista has a BA in Communications from Biola University, and a MA in Theology, and MA in Bible Exposition from Talbot School of Theology. She has worked for almost three decades in various capacities in theology and apologetics and is the VP of Educational Programs and Biblical Integrity at the Center for Biblical Unity. She is working on a Doctor of Ministry in Apologetics at Birmingham Theological Seminary.

Monique Duson is the President at the Center for Biblical Unity. She has a background in social service and children’s ministry. She has worked with a diverse array of underserved communities. She worked as a Missionary to South Africa for over four years, serving children and teachers impacted by drugs, violence, and trauma. She spent two decades advocating for Critical Race Theory (CRT), but through a series of events, she began to clearly see the contradictions of CRT with the historic Christian worldview. Monique is now convinced that CRT is not the best way to achieve racial unity and actively speaks out against the use of CRT within the church. Monique has appeared on shows such as Relatable (with Allie Beth Stuckey), the Alisa Childers podcast, and Breakpoint (with John Stonestreet). Monique has a BA in Sociology from Biola University and is pursuing an MA in Public Theology at Birmingham Theological Seminary.

Links: 

Center for Biblical Unity
Theology Mom

All The Things Podcast

Off Code Podcast

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