I, a Christian, Admit It: Atheists Have Been Right All Along

I, a Christian, Admit It: Atheists Have Been Right All Along November 5, 2009
Here's a standard Christian youth camp indoctrination game we like to call Follow Jesus.

Atheists: I hereby declare that you are right. I give up trying to pretend otherwise. You win. You’ve got my number. Despite everything I’ve been saying and writing for years, you know the truth, and your laser-like focus upon that truth has finally burned through my facade of deception.

So here, finally, is the truth I’ve been too long denying: All Christians are, in fact, ignorant, narrow-minded, self-righteous, intolerant, intrusive, hypocritical, fear-driven, gay-hating, misogynistic, money-grubbing, imperialistic war-mongers. And you’re right about all Christians thinking and believing exactly alike. We do. We’ve all been thoroughly indoctrinated into the machine of Organized Religion (which is the only kind of religion we care capable of liking or understanding), and are at least once a week brainwashed by our craven, egomaniacal Pastor Overlords into directly correlating our self-worth with how much money and allegiance we pledge to The Church. We’re like helpless children desperately eager to hand over responsibility for our lives to Our Leaders, in whom we unquestionably believe. We’re absolutely incapable of independent or rational thought. That’s why the mere sight of a chart of elements or a microscope makes us react like chimps being poked at with lit torches. The simple fact is that science terrifies us.

We fear knowledge.

There. I said it. And I feel so much better!

The sole reason I ever pretended to care or be interested in anything you ever said, atheists, is because I was trying to lure you into becoming part of the Christian Borg. How else could I tolerate your soulless prattle? Besides relinquishing our money and time to The Church, we Christians are programmed for one thing, and one thing only: the recruitment of fresh blood into our ranks. Each Sunday every pastor tells every Christian in his congregation how many people they’re responsible for recruiting that week. If by the following Sunday a Christian has failed to meet that week’s personal conversion quota (PCQ), he or she must do penance by washing and detailing the pastor’s car right after the service. That’s why pastors’ cars always look so great. It’s amazing what a little Turtle Wax and a lot of guilt can accomplish.

I want to thank you, atheists, for finally breaking down my barriers, and allowing me to admit that you’ve been right all along. None of we Christians are intellectually curious, genuinely compassionate, congenitally independent, or more interested in truth than doctrine. You were right to insist that we’re all exactly alike, despite all the faux-evidence that we take pains to everywhere provide you to the contrary. Some people say that bigotry and blindly stereotyping groups of others is lazy, stupid and caustically arrogant. But I think it’s safe to say that, in my case anyway, you have absolutely and finally proven its value.

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  • Dee

    Well John it's about time you admit it. HA!

  • mm

    LOL. Wow, you're really going all out and trying to get hate mail from everyone this week huh john? The internet needs a sarcasm font. The only thing the internet will be able to provide is a facebook petition for a sarcasm font, that won't actually result in one being created.

  • Ray

    "None of we Christians" should be "None of us Christians"

    – Atheist grammar police

  • Oh, Ray. Are you not aware that I wrote this book on punctuation?

    It's we.

    Bite I.

  • casey

    John, I'm surprised. That actually made sense! It's not fair for us to assume that all of you are the same mindless sheep that yell and condemn us to hell. Just like it's not fair to admit that we're right for believing that.

  • John, John, John:

    No atheist believes that all Christians are the same or think the same way. Some Christians are pretty far out there, and then there are others who are really, very far out there. Then, there are complete lunatics. There is a spectrum, a continuum, on which all people find their level of comfort with their faith.

    Not all Christians fear knowledge, it's just that the ones who do are over-represented in the media. (You need more followers.)

    Don't worry about us atheists. [And that one is correct, as was yours.] When I croak and go to hell, you will be able to mock me (in a benevolent, loving way) from your gold-tinted clouds on high. I shall rue the day I failed to heed the truth presented, salvation that was so easily within my grasp.

    Meanwhile, I can behave in a moral way, I can love my neighbor as myself, I can do unto others as I would have them do unto me, I can live my life in service to others, I can make it my life's goal to leave the world a better place for my having lived; sadly, the one thing I can't do is pray to an invisible guy who lives in the clouds, who has infinite control over the universe yet needs everyone to praise him all the time, who permits the three major religions who worship him to have bloody wars about the _way_ they choose to worship him, and who gives a crap about who wins this Saturday's high school football game. I can't do that because I lack faith, cynical old crank that I am. 🙂

  • odgie


    I guess you hit your limit with people who don't share your faith telling you what your faith is supposed to make of you and mean to you. I reached that point some time ago; now I am merely amused by what used to piss me off. I realized that if I conduct my life in a Christlike manner then my behavior would put the lie to any stereotype of my faith. I don't always live up to this, but I, those around me, and most importantly God all know where my heart is. And I am confident that you can say the same. Remember, we are blessed when others speak falsehoods against us.

    Don't be discouraged, brother.



  • Your talkin' 'bout me aren't you John? I can tell…really. 🙂

    Of course atheists don't think all Christians are "ignorant, narrow-minded, self-righteous, intolerant, intrusive, hypocritical, fear-driven, gay-hating misogynists." It would seem that, what appears to be, your knee-jerk, spastic reaction to what had been said in your post http://www.patheos.com/blogs/johnshore/2009/10/29/we-get-the-god-we… demonstrates a greater proclivity on your part to painting with the broad brush than I (or any atheist I know).

    Just like extreme right/left rhetoric gets most of the attention; when people say patently stupid things (i.e. 'It's not important if what I believe is true'); it is only right and proper that such addled logic be publicly ridiculed by non-theists and theists alike. Nobody benefits from respecting or showing deference to such thought…and that includes the original speaker. Now if you personally identify with such statements…well…then I guess we are talking about you…but not Christians/believers in general.

    Still; we all have to be careful. Poe's Law makes it difficult to discern parody from non-parody. Poe's Laws states that "Without a winking smiley or other blatant display of humor, it is impossible to create a parody of Fundamentalism that SOMEONE won't mistake for the real thing." I have, in the past, responded to crazy stupid stuff that was meant to be parody.

  • Eva

    As a former Christian-turned-atheist who has now moved on to the position of "Fence Rider", I found this post very funny. Yay, John.

  • Greta Sheppard

    John, you must love the feel of fire . . . getting scorched and scathed . . . amazing thing is, that I think I know what you're up to….you want the christians to take a good look at themselves and their motives . . . no one else will dare to hear the inventory results…. you, however, seem to have a radar beam on the basic beliefs that have become the christian's comfort zone….I agree, we are afraid of inspired thought that comes when we think for ourselves!

  • Leonardo

    Why?! John Why?! You, you traitor. Now they know! How'd you dare?!!!! The preservation of the Bible….all that work, and the blood they shed. All those lives that tried hard to look changed. The hope that apparently sustained lives in the worst moments, even dying for it! We, evolved amebas without a soul!, now they know it…, well, they always knew it.

  • Shaw

    I posted this on your FaceBook, but for the sake of stirring up as much controversy as possible…

    I think I fall into the small category of non-agnostics who believe that athiests are equally as ignorant as self-identified Christians or other people of religions. I'm sorry, but any human who thinks that they can tell other humans that they know how the Universe works beyond the scope of our small, limited existence is probably very ignorant. And the rare human that does get it, the Johns and Jesuses of the world is most likely to be misunderstood.

    The main things that scare "liberals" about the Christian faith:

    1. "You're going to burn in hell." Nobody likes to be told that. Also, if you REALLY think that Ted Haggard has a better chance of going to heaven than me, then, well. I have nothing to say to that– I don't know what its like to have sex with a male prostitute.

    2. Priests, especially the Catholic priests who don't marry, but also priests in general. I don't need to say anything about this. In California, you say priest and the majority of people are going to say "sex scandal"

    3. The support of extremely hypocritical viewpoints: The biggest one being support for war… so your religion is based on peace. One of your Commandments is "Thou Shalt Not Kill." Why is war ever OK? Another good example is how Christians will tell non-believers that they are insignificant compared to the glory of God. I actually believe that. But so is your church.

    4. The fear of ignorant lynch-mobs: 10,000 people who actually believe that the Jews killed Jesus. Anyone who reads Wikipedia will see, in plain sight, that Jesus was a Jewish Rabbi who was politically murdered by the Romans… and then the Romans adopted the religion. You can find all of that in Wikipedia in the article under Constantine.

    5. Jesus is the son of God. Yeah, duh. But wait… aren't we all, in a way, the sons and daughers of God? What makes one person more of a son? Why bother personifying any human as God? He was a brilliant teacher. No doubt in my mind about that. But he was flesh and blood. The beauty of Jesus was in his teachings of peace and community, not the walking-on-water stuff. It seems like Christians have gotten so caught up in his death and resurrection that they've completely forgotten about the life.

    6. The cross. The symbol of death, hardship and suffering. Prior to Constantine's rule, the main Christian symbols were life symbols. You know the little fish on the back of cars? That's what the cross replaced. Fish were the primary protein source of early Mediterranean Christians. The cross didn't become a powerful symbol until Constantine's vision: "The cross will lead you to victory."

    Most of my family is Christian, and lord knows, they've tried to convert me. I am not an athiest– I am a believing agnostic– but I'm still going to burn in hell, according to them. Because its really not about believing in God. Its about believing in their God.

    God is obvious. God is everywhere, all around, at all times. A book, a church and a personification are completely unnecessary and fundamentally human things. God makes planets, stars, Universes… not books and buildings.

    Excitedly waiting to stir up the fire of debate.

  • Shaw: I'm curious as to your age. Mind if I ask how old you are? (I'm gonna say … um … 24-26.) And also, if you don't mind: What' a "believing agnostic"?

  • John: Yeah I'm curious about that "believing agnostic" thing too.. sounds like Jumbo Shrimp…

    Shaw: I am ignorant. That's why I self-identify as a model agnostic. Belief of any kind, even "agnostic belief" seems like hubris to me.

  • Christine

    Damn it John, don’t you remember the oath we swore when we joined the Church….NEVER TELL THE ATHEISTS THEY WERE RIGHT!!! That’s it…your excommunicated

  • The behaviors of atheists or Christians describe only atheists and Christians. Good or bad works by either of us plays no role in whether our respective belief systems (BS for short) are valid.

  • onemansbeliefs

    Odgie – Well said… *bowing in your general direction*

  • The statement, “God exists,” is a precisely stated proposition. Thus, it is either true or false. The simple fact is, either God exists or He does not. There is no middle ground. One cannot affirm logically both the existence and nonexistence of God. The atheist boldly states that God does not exist; the theist affirms just as boldly that God does exist; the agnostic laments that there is not enough evidence to makea decision on the matter; and the skeptic doubts that God’s existence can be proven with certainty. Who is correct? Does God exist or not? The only way to answer this question, of course, is to seek out and examine.

  • Leonardo

    Hey Shaw, as you see, don't need to wait a lot; is on fire. But tell us, how do you know what you're saying is true. Just Widipedia? And, yeah, I would like to know about to be a "believing agnostic" too. Thanks

  • – I am an atheist because I don't hold theistic beliefs (a deist is arguably an atheist)

    – I am an agnostic because I doubt the existence of a god or gods (no evidence and errancy of theistic claims)

    – Agnosticism and atheism are not mutually exclusive (Richard Dawkins said he is agnostic)

    – I (and the typical atheist) does NOT state that "There is no god", but rather "There seems no reason to believe in a god"

    Qualitatively there are two possible realities: There is either no god or there is some god.

    Quantitatively they are not equally likely

    Quantitatively the likelihood of a SPECIFIC god is infinitely smaller than the deistic god

    – One cannot disprove a negative in this situation. I cannot disprove God. The believer cannot disprove Unicorns or trolls or fairies.

    – Truth claims made by theists ARE testable and falsifiable

  • God, there's nothing more painful than watching someone with pretensions of being a sound rational thinker lay out an argument that would make anyone who actually does understand logical argument want to chew through a desk. (And Mike: save yourself the trouble of asking me, as you invariably do, to "prove" where you're wrong. Homey don play that. Not with you, anyway.)

  • Twasn't really an argument, just the statement of some facts. I was just throwing it out there for Dave (who had some things wrong). If you, John, won't point me to my errors (I understand), maybe someone else will. I am amenable to being show my errors and I acknowledged and corrected my errors in the other post.

    I would gladly have anyone show any of the points I listed to be in error.

  • I still think the fallacy of this post from both sides is that you're trying to say that because sombunall atheists seem like dogmatic twits that that says something about atheism. Which to me is just like the equally fallacious argument that because sombunall Christians are closed minded homophobic, crusading Inquisition-ing a-holes, that that says something about Christianity.

  • Sometimes I wonder which is going to be funnier: your posts or the comment section.

    Thanks for somethin' lite and funny on a Friday. I needed this.

  • Mercy . . . if all Christians are all alike, then that means there are an awful lot of "me's" out there and that further means God's in a world of hurt. Why couldn't I be a "believing agnostic" instead and have some sense of individuality?

  • Sombunall is a new word for me. Hasn't quite hit the dictionaries, but I guess it's well used in places like this. It sounds like a sleeping aid from the 60s, sort of like "somnolent" and "numb skull" collided in a fiery accident. Which, coincidentally, is how sombunall Christians would categorize sombunall atheists.

    Everybody sing along: Take Sombunall tonight and sleep. Safe, eternal sleep, sleep, sleeeeeep.

    From the makers of Dammitol.

  • Shaw

    I'd rather not divulge my age, I don't think it's relevant.

    To answer your questions… A believing agnostic is a fun term I coined to describe someone who believes in the existence of a living God but sees that belief as short-sighted and ignorant in its own right, because one has to seek the truth, but the can only be done with the knowledge that the truth can never be completely sought.

    Another cool term, one that I didn't coin, is "evolutionary theologist." This is someone who believes in God and uses scripture to explain how the dinosaurs became the people. Michael Dowd is the man on this… I don't think he came up with it, though. He's a practicing priest, and John, I HIGHLY recommend checking out his work. It'll definitely make you think, without pushing your "this-man-hates-jesus" switch.

    The facts about Christianity and Constantine are all very well-documented stuff. As this is an interest of mine, I have consumed numerous documentaries and books, but the notable documentary that I recommend you should check out is "Constantine's Sword." Not one to believe everything I've seen, I usually check these things out on Wiki after, or pull the Wiki to cite dates (its very satisfying to giving a date, 331 AD, that the cross was invented as a holy symbol), and if you really want to contest this information then go right ahead. Constantine penned an edict that made Christianity the official religion of the Roman Empire, but he himself was not baptized until his death– infamous for committing countless acts of infidelity and likely homosexuality as well as killing his own wife and son, Constantine waited til he was on his death bed so he could be washed of as much sin as possible.

    The prime motive of that documentary (which has a lot of commentary by a pre-disgraced Ted Haggard) is to take a look into the impact of megachurches on the military complex and then to take it deeper, to find out when Christianity and war became synonymous– also, the documentarian is a former priest, so its an interesting take.

    I guess one interesting thing to note is that belief systems have very little to do with the actions of people. Christianity drove abolishment and pacifism, as well as war and conquest. There are Christian homosexuals along with outright hatred for thy neighbor. Christianity has famously "blamed the jews" while also being the driving force behind Zionism today.

    There also needs to be a distinction. Christian Fundamentalism, neo-conservative fascism, and Glenn Beck go over here. People who actually follow the teachings of Jesus and try to be good people go over here.

    Okay, last thing. This is how I explain God to myself, and sometimes to those who are willing to listen.

    When you open your eyes, what are you looking at? Life. The universe. But that's all just part of God, isn't it. I mean, God is everything. So is the Universe. You could call God the Universe, or The Universe God. If God = everything, and The Universe = everything, then The Universe = God. I don't think it would be much of a stretch to say that we are inside God's body. I mean, certainly, we are inside a great stellar body, which is in a greater stellar body. We're inside the Universe. What we call it is what we call it.

    God is a living organism– a superorganism, really, comprised of all of the stars and planets and little critters running around on said planets, and everything. God is growing, too– where there was once gas, there is now incredibly complex life that stands to only get more complex. God is root level directory. Top level system. Everything.

  • Christine

    Shaw: First of all I commend your obvious research. I would love it if you would pick up the book “The Lion Handbook History of Christianity”. It is a complete, honest look at the pro’s and con’s of Christianity throughout the ages, including Constantine. I believe you would find it most interesting.

    Secondly, to say that ‘Christians’ today (a very general term) are responsible for everything bad that has happened since Jesus is like saying that you are directly responsible for the founders of America (I am assuming your in USA) killing the native Indians. You of course are not. Generational gaps do count for something otherwise I would walk around with a whole heap of guilt everyday, which I don’t. Yes, Christians have screwed up. yes we have done awful things in the name of God and yes, we continue to do so. We are but human and will continue to do things that shame us, but to lump us all in the same group is very unfair.

    Thirdly, I believe the term is a theistic evolutionist. This is a term used for Christians who believe that God could have made creation to evolve and has been the main player in making that happen. But you have to believe that God is God first to believe this point. I am a theistic evolutionist for micro, not macro, evolution. But that is another debate entirely.

    Fourthly, what you describe in God in everything is called pantheism. It is a belief that goes back centuries to ancient cultures (Greeks, Romans, and older) and is completely incompatible with Christian religion. God is the creator and therefore cannot be part of the created. He is everywhere but not everything. He holds it all together but is not it. He is other, the great unexplainable. If we could explain him he would not be God. The mere name ‘God’ means that he is beyond what we can understand. Though that sounds like a ‘Christian cope-out’ there is not other explanation for this one. You either believe he is bigger than you can comprehend or you believe that you are as big as God (which is the inevitable conclusion, if you can comprehend everything about God, you yourself can be God).

    That’s my two cents worth. We can get into the history of fundamentalism and what it actually means another day, as we can also do with where you get your info that all Christians believe the Jews killed Jesus. It’s like saying all Christians were rooting for the crusades…way too generalized.

  • Christine

    so you deleted the '12 year old' then?

  • Yeah, of course.

  • Brad from kentucky

    Um…isn’t it obvious to anyone else that the point being made here is that everyone is different no matter their belief? Mr. Dennis Dawson is arrogant in saying that “No atheist believes that all Christians are the same or think the same way”. That’s basically saying all atheists are superior and are infallible in their thinking and this is a falsehood and a hypocrisy. I don’t agree with Mr. Dawson’s opinion and I am also an atheist.

  • Words, words words. Belief in God is “FAITH”. I am a Christian, who believes in Buddhist teachings as well as Jesus’ teachings, but in no church, or religion. What I believe the most, and to my core, is that God is a part of me, and when I quiet my monkey brain, and still my soul I know beyond words….

  • Dennis Dawson

    Mr. Dennis Dawson is an ass. Don't listen to him.

    I'm sure there are many, many atheists who are inferior and fallible in their thinking, and that is the sincere truthiness. I don't agree with Mr. Dennis Dawson's opinion, either, and I am also an atheist.

    Mr. Dennis Dawson is still going to hell, though. You betcha.

  • Literally everyone who experiences just about anything truly profound understands that its essence is beyond the power of words to describe.

  • Well, as a pretty young atheist(I'm 28), I'm going to say this:

    While what you was said was funny, not all atheists think that way. Lumping us together is kinda like lumping Christians together(yes, I'm a former Happy Clappy, try and figure that one out)and while I may not agree with your theology…I don't think you deserve it either. That being said, I don't it really kicked up any major type of debate more or less. Just a bunch of sycophants who say "well, atheists are just as much of a bunch of asses as everyone else".

    And to the Believing Agnostic. That's your opinion love, and here is mine: if you are a Believing Agnositc, you're just a Believer with doubts. That's all. Sure many philosophies can be stretched to fit the person, but you're about to break the comfy-fit rubber band ;P.

    That being said: There is a time and place for blanket statements. I just don't know if this was the best time.

    This entry didn't really make me think that I should treat my fellow believers any differently or even make me question my somewhat Godless ways.

    But it did make me laugh.

  • Hey, Monica. Not that it matters, but this post was really written for my longer-time readers, insofar as, in the past, I've written copious amounts of stuff which is all about how and why atheists generally deserve our respect. They would know that–and would know … how those efforts have been generally received. I was really just blowing off a little steam here; this post is hardly typical of what I do here on my blog. Sometimes I forget that new readers wouldn't have any reason to know stuff like that.

  • I went to high school with a guy named Dennis Dawson, of whom I was very fond. He was a bit of a schizophrenic, though.

  • OMg, Bite I……………ROFLMDO!!!!!

    That's keeping it clean for our evangelical viewers…….text shorthand for: Oh my gosh…….Rolling on the floor laughing my donkey off.

  • Scott

    Here's how I tell which one to use:

    "None of we Christians are intellectually curious…"

    Eliminate "None of" (prepositional phrase) and "Christians" (the group) to get to the "meat" of the sentence:

    "We are intellectually curious…"

    John is right.

  • Don Whitt

    Hey Mikey, some counterpoint – I can't fall asleep and need some sport…

    – I am an atheist because I don’t hold theistic beliefs (a deist is arguably an atheist)

    No, you're an atheist because your parents didn't teach you to love others. They instilled nothing in you in terms of values, service and commitment. You have a long way to go.

    – I am an agnostic because I doubt the existence of a god or gods (no evidence and errancy of theistic claims)

    No, agnostics don't believe they can honestly commit either way to God's existence or absence. They see evidence for both arguments. This is actually a reasonable position. They have less distance to go than you. I kinda fall in this camp.

    – Agnosticism and atheism are not mutually exclusive (Richard Dawkins said he is agnostic)

    Bullshit. They are radically different. Thinking this means that you'll take whatever controversial stance gets you the most attention and pleasure (or will get you laid). You are a budding narcissist and are on the road to unhappiness. Do not pass GO or collect anything.

    – I (and the typical atheist) does NOT state that “There is no god”, but rather “There seems no reason to believe in a god”

    You continue to confuse atheism with agnosticism in order to get laid.

    – Qualitatively there are two possible realities: There is either no god or there is some god.

    Actually, there are manifold possibilities, but, because we are human, we are relegated to thinking in human terms. And you're misusing the term "qualitatively". I think you mean…well, I have no f*&^ing idea what you mean.

    – Quantitatively they are not equally likely

    You really have no f*&^ing i clue, do you, bunky?

    – Quantitatively the likelihood of a SPECIFIC god is infinitely smaller than the deistic god

    A deistic God? Seriously? Were you raised by a developmentally disabled Mason?

    – One cannot disprove a negative in this situation. I cannot disprove God. The believer cannot disprove Unicorns or trolls or fairies.

    Okay, you're the Flying Spaghetti Monster type-o-guy. Got it. Gee, didn't see that one coming. How are your Linux skills? Argued about open source, Apple or Google monopolies lately? Just a guess…

    – Truth claims made by theists ARE testable and falsifiable

    Truth claims by any of us are testable and falsifiable. In fact, you can't prove you exist. The problem is, you keep annoying those of us who do.

    Mike, instead of worrying about rational arguments that support your desires, think of rational ways to make this world BETTER. You'll be WAY happier. My ambiguous deistic God told me so.

  • Don Whitt


  • Diana

    I like this!

  • Diana

    Fascinating. Thank you, Brian!

  • Diana

    I kind of like this, actually.

    "Constantine penned an edict that made Christianity the official religion of the Roman Empire, but he himself was not baptized until his death– infamous for committing countless acts of infidelity and likely homosexuality as well as killing his own wife and son, Constantine waited til he was on his death bed so he could be washed of as much sin as possible." Yeah, and I imagine the first thing God said to him upon his arrival on the other side was "Nice try!"

    "There also needs to be a distinction. Christian Fundamentalism, neo-conservative fascism, and Glenn Beck go over here. People who actually follow the teachings of Jesus and try to be good people go over here." Cool! Like the sheep and the goats! (Matthew 25:31-46–for those of you who aren't biblically literate.)

  • Old Stuff

    atheism…..a-theism…without theism. It's super duper simple Don.

  • Whoo for a ridiculous straw-man that, ironically, perpetuates exactly what it is you are trying to combat.

  • Sea Sick Sailor

    Crap. I thought I was great a sarcasim. I bow to the master.

  • As an atheist, I would never stereotype all Christians as ignorant, sheepish automatons. Maybe most of them, but certainly not all of them.
    I have a regular dialogue with various Christians who are my friends and family.
    Some of them are very progressive, compassionate, intelligent people (other than their irrational faith in supernatural beings, that is).
    I also concur that the loudest “Christians”, being those in the religious right (beck, palin, et al.) are decidedly NOT representative of those who truly aim to follow the teachings of your Jesus. I have read the Bible, and, while it does, in instances, seem to advocate genocide, rape, slavery, domestic violence, etc., Jesus, himself, seemed to advocate nothing more than nonjudgmental, unconditional love and compassion, and I do believe that there ARE Christians who make a concerted effort to follow those teachings. Quakers would be a good example. I actually go and meditate with Quakers on occasion (I understand their worship isn’t exactly meditation, but they don’t seem to mind me meditating in their Meetings).

  • Mike Burns

    Way late to return to this…but for clarification, qualitative and quantitative measures are often used in the sciences. If you have [let’s say] a chemical solution you can do QUALitative testing to determine what is in the solution, but it tells you nothing about the proportions. You can do more rigorous QUANTitative testing to determine the precise makeup/proportions of the solution. Saying you have cup of salt-water is a qualitative. Saying you have a 10% solution of salt-water is a quantitative measure.

  • Grace

    Right. And likewise, you, sir, are completely right lumping all atheists into one category as Christian-hating narrow-minded bigots.

    I don’t say “There is no God.” I’m thirteen. I have absolutely no idea whether there is a god or not, as I probably won’t be any more enlightened when I die. However, I feel no personal need for a god. However, you obviously do. It fills a void for you that it doesn’t for me. And as I respect that, I think you should respect my choice as well.

    But what do I know. I’m just a cynical heartless god-hating dream-crushing loveless atheist. So take it with a grain of salt.

  • Jay

    Wow, so you have just taken a group identified solely by what they do not believe and you have extrapolated from that some astoundingly specific beliefs for a very large and diverse group of people. Now I understand the instinct to become defensive when someone tells you that you are wrong about something as fundamental as the nature of the universe. And with the increasing popularity and boldness of popular atheists I can see how confidence can sometimes be mistaken or even turn into smug self righteousness. But as An scientific person, as many atheists are, I respect logic and evidence and it does not logically follow that because we are right about this one thing, we are better than you in general. It is simply a non sequitur. Indeed there are atheists and christians who believe as represented in the above caricatures of them but they are two flavors or the same problem. I’ll promise not to prejudge you based on your favorite book if you promise not to make it my responsibility to defend actions that I don’t condone of people I don’t agree with.

  • Cadie

    I’m beginning to see more and more….

  • Allie

    Way to miss the point, Jay.