Caelum et Terra has some good questions…

Caelum et Terra has some good questions… January 20, 2012

for Obama supporters:

How would you have reacted in 2008 if any Republican ran promising to do the following?

(1) Codify indefinite detention into law;
(2) draw up a secret kill list of people, including American citizens, to assassinate without due process;
(3) proceed with warrantless spying on American citizens;
(4) prosecute Bush-era whistleblowers for violating state secrets;

(5) reinterpret the War Powers Resolution such that entering a war of choice without a Congressional declaration is permissible;
(6) enter and prosecute such a war;
(7) institutionalize naked scanners and intrusive full body pat-downs in major American airports;
(8) oversee a planned expansion of TSA so that its agents are already beginning to patrol American highways, train stations, and bus depots;
(9) wage an undeclared drone war on numerous Muslim countries that delegates to the CIA the final call about some strikes that put civilians in jeopardy;
(10) invoke the state-secrets privilege to dismiss lawsuits brought by civil-liberties organizations on dubious technicalities rather than litigating them on the merits;
(11) preside over federal raids on medical marijuana dispensaries;
(12) attempt to negotiate an extension of American troops in Iraq beyond 2011 (an effort that thankfully failed);
(13) reauthorize the Patriot Act;
(14) and select an economic team mostly made up of former and future financial executives from Wall Street firms that played major roles in the financial crisis.

Just because the GOP field is crowd of clowns doesn’t mean this man has not been a catastrophe. The secular messianism of the 2008 Obama campaign has ended up where all secular messianic claims do: with tyranny.

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  • I don’t think it has led to tyranny. I would accept that he has taken the country a few steps down that road. I don’t think it is there yet. Things can get much, much worse. That is why 2012 matters. Unless of course nobody is running who will change it materially. Then it won’t matter.

    • Mark Shea

      We are a de jure tyranny already. That happened when they stripped us of habeas corpus. It’s just a matter of time before we are a de facto tyranny. And the stripping happened at the hands of a bipartisan effort by both Dems and Republicans. This election won’t change a damn thing.

      • Chad Myers

        Any tyranny is a lot of tyranny.

  • Matt Talbot

    Mark – CeT’s criticism of Obama seems to be that he’s…acting too much like a Republican.

    I would agree with this 😉

    • Beadgirl

      Yeah, that’s pretty much my problem with him. I voted for him in 2008 despite his stance on abortion because I truly thought he’d put an end to the wars/tyranny/abuse of civil rights/detainments/etc., all that stuff that Democrats are supposedly against.

      So you can imagine how very angry at him I am. And how very puzzled I am by those who continue to insist he’s too darn liberal, even socialist.

      • Mark Shea

        I think it’s because an awful lot of Obama haters will literally believe anything about him, just so long as it’s hostile. So we are told he is simultaneously an atheistic communist *and* a devout Muslim believer in Allah. Morons still waste time on birth certificate rubbish. Anything, so long as it attacks Obama, is fair game. Which makes such people worthless as critics because they can’t state what’s really wrong since *everything* is wrong with him. He has not one single solitary redeeming feature for many of these critics and the suggestion that he might only labels you as a “secret Obama supporter”. Hate makes you stupid. The evils that Obama is doing are too important to oppose with mere stupid hate.

        • Chris M

          Seeing this and the responses to it really support your assertions about the power elite vs the rest of us. What does it matter if they have an R or a D after their name if they’re all supporting things that are intrinsically evil?

  • Deacon Nathan Allen

    Today’s GOP invokes the name and patronage of Ronald Reagan, but Reagan could never have won this party’s nomination.

    – He campaigned in 1984 on immigration reform and signed into law the Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986, which granted (shock! horror!) amnesty to illegal immigrants who had been in the US continuously since January 1, 1982.

    – He signed the UN Convention Against Torture, calling torture and other inhumane treatment of prisoners “an abhorrent practice” in his signing statement.

    – And his administration’s policy was to treat terrorists (of whom there were many in the 1980s: those who claim that “9/11 changed everything” are either liars or people with no sense of history) not as “enemy combatants”, which only served to dignify them and their “cause”, but as the thugs and criminals they are by arresting them, trying them in federal court, and locking them up in federal prison.

    So, Reagan was, to today’s GOP, soft on terror and downright un-American. “This people honors me with their lips, but their heart is far from me…”

    • Oregon Catholic

      But today’s GOP sure cling tightly to his failed “trickle down theory” despite all reality to the contrary.

      • Sam Schmitt

        at least it’s better than trickle-up poverty . . . .


    Sumptuous amoral prince, the people’s champion
    Who could at once inspire them, and see them all undone,
    Conspirator and maestro of effrontery, intrigue –
    He undermined confederates with whom he was in league

    Tongue of honey, tongue of oil, a biting tongue of scorn,
    A purple-wearing democrat unto the manner born,
    An admiral without a peer who could a fleet betray,
    A conqueror of armies who might also slip away

    Icy-hearted butcher but a fearless warrior,
    Genius of victory and double-dealing cur,
    Prodigal of promises of which a few he’d keep,
    All at once an open face with motives fathoms deep

    Virtuoso liar, fascinating wit,
    Magnetic and appealing, a subtle hypocrite,
    His enemies were mesmerized, his friends were all beguiled
    Even when he strangled trust and left them all defiled

    Will we ever see his like, who is so long remembered?
    Athens flourished long ago, its power long dismembered,
    Beware the talents of the one without a doubt or fear,
    He will emerge when noon is high and shadows disappear

    January 18, 2012